The Beckham Family Feud

Family disagreements it’s not uncommon to any of us, but when you throw in famous parents, historic institutions and social pressure all of a sudden the smallest thing gets front page news. So imagine finding yourself at a critical point of transition not only as a family, but as parents, children and individuals too, and being expected to be flawless and perfect in every moment, whilst not being able to escape the default human condition, that none of us are perfect. And dive into the Beckham Family Saga with our Yo Pops Lenses on and hope to look a little deeper than most.

Patreon- www.patreon.com/YoPopsPoddy
PayPal: www.paypal.me/YoPopsPoddy
TikTok - @yopopspoddy
Instagram - @yopopspoddy
Threads - @yopopspoddy

Presenters: ‪‪‪‪‪‪‪‪   @bishoplawilliams   | ‪‪‪‪‪‪‪ @SheanWilliamsWorld  

Brought to you by Willow Media House Ltd
www.willowmediahouse.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

How are you dad? I am fine. How has your day been? It's been good. You had a bit of food? I was in quite early this morning. Yes. So it was a little conversation about it.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

Yeah. I'm going. How are you dealing with this weather?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Um it's it's really kind of strange. I mean, the hot, the cold, the snow. What part's hot? What part's hot? The odd occasion, the odd days. Hot? Well, warm. Mild? Come here. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Yeah, I very unmotivating to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Yes, it is. It is.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

So you've got to have stuff going to just keep you motivated and keep you going. So listen, lovely. I'm glad that you're okay and everything's cool. I have quite a contentious topic for you today. Yes. And as you're aware, I didn't send you any pre-podcast notes. And I know you're a bit like, you didn't send me anything, and I was just like, yes, this was on purpose. So, Dad, I've I really wanted to lean away from it because there's been quite a lot of what I call social commentary. Um, but I also noticed that the angle of the commentary on the particular situation, which I will tell you about, I'm not just gonna leave it that ambiguous the whole way through. There wasn't necessarily what I call a perspective from how we would speak, and within the dynamic of the situation, yeah, there is a father and there is a son. Okay, so um David Beckham, Sir David Beckham, right? Um, and obviously, Dad being a Manchester United fan. Do you know? The guy didn't have any players. Right, so there's a certain level of me, it's like, no, no, no, you're not right, but it would appear that there is a family situation that is happening. Now, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna save you all the gory details and I'm gonna give you the overview because I'm also aware that when we kind of break stuff apart, we have a very what I call a three-pronged attack. And I know that you're going to employ this system, which is why I think this conversation is gonna be really, really good. So let me give you the overview. Basically, the family's feuding, okay. The oldest son, Brooklyn, he's married to a woman that her family do really, really well, right? So they're they're very wealthy, they're very well off. Oh, okay. Yeah, so it's it's a great solid situation. He's good, he's good. It would appear that there's been slight tensions between his wife and his mum.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

So much so that in the lead up to the wedding, she's a very famous fashion designer. Like, she's worked her way up from being in like a popular um girl group that did you remember the Spice Girls? She was obviously she was a Spice Girl, and she's gone from being a Spice Girl to being one of the most dominant influences in the world of fashion and in that space. Yeah, like they get invited to royal weddings and them things there, that so they've they've stepped up, right? But it would appear that the daughter-in-law wasn't interested in her ideas of fashion. Well, she thought she was designing the wedding dress.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Right now, you're starting to get a grip of this. So she the mum thought she was designing the wedding dress. It would appear that the daughter-in-law was trying to go along with it until she was just like, nah, which I think was a slight issue. Also, you know, when you think about it, David Beckham, um, his family's come from quite humble beginnings, so he's he's worked incredibly hard, or they've worked incredibly hard to get to where they've got to, and and I know it's more common, obviously, with this generation, he went from like a single last name to a double barrel name. Now, that's David, that's the that's the son, Brooklyn. So the son's gone, right? We're gonna start our own clan of Brooklyn pelts, right? Oh sorry, Beckham Pelts. Now, right, there's a there's a bit more. There are reports and rumourings that when it was decided that he was gonna marry her, they weren't, and I this is why I say it's reports and rumors, because I haven't been able to kind of verify and I haven't looked into that deeply to be like this definitely did happen. But usually when you hear reports of rumourings, they're a fraction of something that did happen. So we're quite good at being able to get rid of the hysteria and look at what the room is, right? It would appear that they had reservations over the relationship and potentially tried to apply pressure by saying that he couldn't maybe use the family name.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

So that's the girl's family?

SPEAKER_03 5:10

No, his family. So it would appear that his family, aka his mum, maybe wasn't happy with the relationship per se. Okay, and then obviously was kind of maybe trying to double down a little bit and be like, well, you know, if this happens, then there might be certain things that you may not have access to. But all the while you're kind of forgetting that, Dad, when I say her family are okay, they're really okay. So they're kind of in the same position, maybe a little bit better, right? Which then led to the wedding. And apparently at the wedding, when it was meant to be the bride and groom's first dance, apparently the mum was invited to dance with the boy. So who invited the mum? Well, apparently the the MC, the Master of Ceremonies, a bit right, and forthwith, I can't confirm, but there are reports that the wife then ran out crying. So it's built into this thing. Then we get to like the most recent thing, okay? There was a premiere of some sort that the family went to. I think it was like it may have been a documentary, something that they were kind of connected to. And dad, the level of frost on the red carpet when so the family's there, like the Beckham family, and then the son and the wife come to join into the the mum didn't even look, dad. It was like so you could sense it was quite frosty, and then obviously reports started to come out in the press of what's happening. People think the son's spoiled, he's entitled, Oh, and I've left out the biggest part. Sorry, Dad. The son then went on social media, and and this is the only thing that I think is his saving grace, right? It I don't think it was right what he did, I understand it, but this is the only saving grace. He puts a lengthy post, dad, about his parents and what he feels like the atmosphere's been like connected to their family and just behaviours that people that view the family brand in a certain way wouldn't it it doesn't mesh, right? Now, when I say this is the only saving grace, there's a thing on Instagram called Instagram stories, which means when you put it on a story, it it it lasts for a certain period and then disappears. Now, obviously, because the internet nothing ever disappears because people can screenshot stuff, yeah. But you could see that it that felt reactive to me because if you were doubling down, you would have put it as a post and it's there for the world to see forevermore, right? Um, and also it kind of puts you in a position where it you can't climb down because if people will see that you've deleted the post or whatever, and I think where it's left now is that in terms of just my my awareness of it, it seems like it's dying down in the press and in the media, and in terms of kind of obviously the prior to the priorities of stories that's kind of making top billing, which for me meant that it was the perfect moment for you and I to speak about it because now the blaze has kind of died down, and you know, and I'm not saying that we can solve anything, but we can have discourse that may open perspectives and release new perceptions. So, Dad, in our age old fashion, you have a very cool formula called PCS, right? And the PCS deals with the problem, the cause, and the solution, right? So, what would you say the cause of this is? Or do you want to start with the problem?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Um no, well, I mean, we can we can start with the problem and then quickly move to the cause. Okay. Why do we have to quickly move? Yeah, because I mean the problem is basically um speculation to a greater or lesser degree. Right. Um, and that is you have three, well, in this case, four, our five uh people in the equation. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Who are those five people?

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Um the father, his father, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

His father, his mother, uh-huh, her mother, her father. Right. And then them two? That's correct. So six. Okay. So that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

So yeah, then. But you're right, because obviously it's about him, it's not necessarily her. Yeah. And um, so what what is interesting to note that well we don't well, I don't know if the girl has a four- uh as a father.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Father's there, right? Yeah, but it don't seem to impact him or he's impacted as much as the ladies are. Okay. Her father. Or his father, or the boy's father. No, the the um the girl's father.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Okay, cool. So hit Brooklyn's wife's father, you don't think it's impacting his father? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah, agreed actually too. Yeah, because you know, you don't seem to come up much in the whole issue. Um, I think both father would have long time preferred to stay out of it, including um David Brooklyn David, as it were. However, because of the ladies' um involvement, yeah, they clearly wanted somebody to affirm whatever they were doing. So in the case um the boy's mother would want would want David to be dragged in to um give some kind of support.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Um so you think, right, cool. This this is good. Because what we can do is you can talk and I can translate what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

So let me let me get everybody up to speed, right? So during the Beckham's pillow talk, he's just like, night, yeah, night, what's wrong? Then she will disclose to him her her grievances potentially and what she does and doesn't like, which puts him in a kind of a position because he has to back his wife. Of course. And at the same time, he probably doesn't want to get too involved, right? Especially when you're running global empires and you're wondering how you're gonna get from this to that. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

So and you can see that on the other side as well. That's why the father is not so much involved in in the all in the whole. So I think um clearly you have a number of factors at work here in this situation. Number one, the professionals are playing the game because there are two aspects to it. One of those aspects is that you could have a very, very good spin doctor. Yeah, you know, working, working the whole thing. Yeah. So you think this could be a ruse to just like keep uh oh yes, I mean to promote the brand and give popular, you know, all kinds of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Yeah, no, no, no, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

So that is one of the things one has to ask themselves, is there is it a real issue or is it a fabricated to achieve things. Now the fact that it involved such thing as design, you know, you know, you you're gonna have now millions of people that want that is gonna say, okay, wow, what was this wedding dress look like? And what other she what other things has she got that we can engage in?

SPEAKER_03 13:05

So you think that there could be a certain place where Brooklyn's mum feels slighted because in this moment her daughter in law, well, firstly, the world's eyes are gonna be on the wedding. Absolutely. She's then gonna get to design the dress that obviously the world's gonna look at, and you're right. Because she also, because if I'm not mistaken, they're billionaires, right? The her family her family, his the Brooklyn's wife's family, billionaires. There you go. So it's yeah, I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

So I mean, I mean, so at that point, it's a bit of a cold war. There you go. So so what you're what you're seeing is that if you think in terms of Diana, Princess Diana, right, what does what after talking about her beauty, right? The next thing people talk about is her wedding dress. Of course, it was a massive spectacle. Everybody watched it. Indeed, and yeah, and so you're actually seeing somebody in the similar category as the designer. Because you can't talk about her dress without talking about who designed it.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

So it's the exposure connected to the event that then creates everything.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Right, gosh. So by rejecting it, yeah, you'd have then it's like a massive slap. Yeah, it is. You mean where the boy's uh mother is concerned?

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Question, and I I agree with everything that you're saying. Do you potentially think that the rejection of the dress was potentially a way to get back for maybe previous interactions where she either felt that she was made to feel uncomfortable or it was almost like I run this roost and you're allowed to exist here at my pleasure? Indeed. Do you think any of it could have been?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

I think I think the there is animosity between them, uh, you know, what they call it, the Cold War was going on before uh it's open hostility. And and that is what um we are seeing is the open hostility. But what triggers it? So if if you make somebody believe they're going to be the person to design this, I mean the the classes of people that was going to be there, plus the media, yeah, it would be unprecedented. Yeah. And then and then halfway through it, it's like, oh, I remember what you did to me since the time, my payback day, and of course, run out on the whole thing. For for for me for the for the boy's mother, it would be unacceptable. Unforgivable, really, to be all to be honest. Absolutely unforgivable. And having therefore that happening, she would be looking for payback, how to payback. And there's been nothing worse than try to turn the the boy, the son, against the parents, um, the the the the the wife, uh in this case the wife. Uh the wife. Because it's like scores. The girls score massively against the the mother. Right. And how can the mother hit back? She can hit back by saying, okay, tell you what, I don't want you to come to my house. Don't bring her to my house. I if are if she does come to my house, put her in one chair, let's just sit.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Don't move for her in one chair.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yes, don't move to the kitchen. Don't come to the kitchen. Don't go, you know, if only if you have to go to the bathroom, you go. But if you can hold it till you get to you to your house, then do so. Yeah. That would be creating, you know, certain sort of anxiety and atmosphere that would be unprecedented. Got you. Now, so he was then, as you can see, the the the retaliation would have been consistent. And to the point where now the the son would be demanded to do something about it. Got you. So and of course, you're gonna tell a son to take side against his mother. That is going to be again another hard-hitting situation. And it's her firstborn son. Exactly. Nobody wants to lose their first son, any sons at all. Yeah. You know what I mean? And this would be what would have been required. Well, you're not standing up for me. That would be the argument to the son. You know what I mean? Of course. You're not, you know, because let's take um the the the royalty uh of Harry and Cole. Right. Yeah. Who was it that Harry was trying to defend? His wife. This is me. And by doing that, she wasn't bothered the fact that, look, I shouldn't even, you know, be in this family, yet here I am, and I'm now making demand to this royalty, this royal that everybody loves. But I want him to know to you know show is that he's mad. Can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_03 18:55

Yeah. Do you think she was making demands on her husband and didn't realise the effect it was potentially going to have on the institution?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Um and the reason why I say that is because it's one thing to be to to feel stood up for in a moment. It's another thing when you understand what the repercussions of the position you're putting the person into.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

That is not normally um comes into play. It takes a very level-headed person, mature person to think like that. Yeah. But when you have people in certain positions where they feel that they are equal or co-equals, you know what I mean, then it becomes a different ball game. Because they've got nothing in principle to lose.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

And also, Dad, because we're looking at this objectively, right? We have no allegiances to anybody. Of course. We're just kind of looking at the information on a surface level as we have it. Indeed. To follow your train of thought, everything that he would potentially worry about in security terms are not worries. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

And vice versa.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Right. But if obviously if your wife isn't happy with the way that your potential family are playing ball, it's much easier for her to say, well, over here, we can do what we want to do rather than potentially put ourselves in this position where there are certain restrictions and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yeah. So what is that what it really boils down to is a battle of the wills. Okay. Is that what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 20:40

So is this the problem?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Um the problem is it's a battle of the wills. Yes, now. Because it has work itself, you know, from tit for tat to now, who's gonna hold their breath the longest.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

But that that feels a massive escalation from tit for tat to nuclear coding.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Well, this is this that's what normally um it if there's no reason to stop it, then it will. And especially if it's you know, um having certain amount of gaining certain amount of traction.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

And this is one of the reasons why you're sort of caught between, is there an element of spin? Because the the publicity, it's like when they say there's no bad publicity.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

No, but I will say this. David Beckham was like, um, he was on having an interview and he was kind of on a panel, and they asked him a question, and he spoke about when basically your children allowed to make mistakes. Um and on the surface of it, it all looked very, very what's the word I'm looking for, very calm, very measured, very considered. Um Now, obviously, Dad, you know, I watch a lot of football, right? So I've kind of been able to watch a person's career from in terms of his sporting self, its inception. I would say he's very polished in terms of his presentation to the media, um, and he has to be because of his position and everything else. It felt genuine and uncomfortable. When I was watching him, I was just like, right, this is somebody that's speaking genuinely, but I could almost it almost you could you could subtly feel the uncomfortability with him. He's walking a tight, a very tight rope. Which made me think that his position within the situation has slightly been isolated and alienated on the basis that it's almost like he he he has situational paralysis.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Well, I I personally think that you know it's it's a case of being of being dragged into something that had it been given a chance, a bit like the girl's father, I want to to leave me out of it. Right. So therefore, you you know, in in principle, the girl and her mother, yeah, deal with it, but leave me out of it. Now, of course, of course, the boy, of course, the boys the boy's mother don't have a mother per se. So she wants, say, in the case of David to be the one to stand with her. So the girl mother standing with her. Right. Yeah. So the father can be left out of it. Yeah. In the case of the the boy, you know, it's different because the the boy's mother don't have anyone to stand with her except David.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

No, their parents are very much, his grandparents are very much in the picture and in the frame. It was Brooklyn's Brooklyn's Brooklyn so Brooklyn's grandparents are still around.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Okay, yeah. But I mean, I don't get the feeling that they were publicly and otherwise involved.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

No, because I feel like, and and this is good, Dad, because I get to give you dimensions of the story that you may not be privy to. In terms of Victoria's position, she is she's built herself into an autonomous position, Daddy.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Where she you're not going to dictate to her what's going on. She's she will believe and feel that she's worked to a position where she's earned the right to be able to administrate and to override where's needed and necessary. So I think there would be a certain element of it looking like weakness for her to need almost like a brood of hens to come and push her.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Which is why I think obviously the situation that puts David in it is quite precarious because he has to then, if we're the brand, yeah, and I go forward, I can't go to war by myself.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Well, you see, when you look at um look at the history of um Brooklyn's mother, right, she got to Ishikata because of strength. Yes. And persistence and she's hard on it. I mean name it. Yeah, yeah. You know, it is so um You can't take that away from her, for sure. No, you can't you you simply can't.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

For whatever you want to say, you can't take away the work ethic and indeed, and the and the fight in her.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah, and so um it is that fight that has helped to um consolidate David's position, uh, great David's achievement, and all the rest goes with it. I didn't think of that. Mm-hmm. So now she can't present herself as a weakling in the face of whether it's her son or her daughter-in-law. She has to maintain that matriarchal position.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

And that's what it is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Indeed, indeed. So, um David, you know, if he doesn't want to live in the in the in the attic. You know we're eating cold dinner has to just to man up and let her feel, even though perhaps it's the one thing that he would have hated um to let her feel, supported. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because clearly, and it would it would it would suggest that there has been problem in in the past, namely the way that things were people were dealing with each other in their home. I love that you've said this.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Can I lean you into something in 2003, or potentially 2002, uh I always feel away talking about this because uh so the revered general of Manchester United, he may have kicked a football boot in the changing room, and it may have accidentally dad, in a freak of nature, if he did it a hundred times, I don't think he could do it again. Okay, it may have clipped someone in the face. Red when this boot clipped said person in the face, there was a massive fallout.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

He then moves to Madrid at this point that I remember when he walked Brooklyn onto the field as a baby, right? At the end, like we'd won. Absolutely, right? I I can remember him. So I'm looking at Brooklyn and I'm going, your whole life has been surrounded by media, right? Irrespective of how much your parents would try to protect you and how much they try and shield you. The reality is, even as a child, you'd be aware that these cameras are always here, these people are always here, and it would desensitise you to the point of normality. Now, to an objective person, you'd sit there and go, that's far too much for a young person to have to deal with, right? And there's no way you can fully protect them from it, especially with the brand that they had. Yeah. Then as a young family, your dad goes to Madrid, and potentially the mum isn't maybe as settled in Madrid, and maybe she's spending more time back here because you've got a young child, you've also got your career, your family are here, so and you've got your son. Now, let's say that there's some there's let's say that a point David and Victoria may not have been on the same page, and certain things happen that creates more distance, all of a sudden now, Dad, without him even realizing Brooklyn is way more to her than just her son. Absolutely, absolutely, and especially in the face of a situation where let's say that there is um in that moment, let's say in an alternate universe, there could have been another child, potentially there wasn't, not at all, but when you're going through certain traumatic situations and moments, the mind will just simulate every worst possible case scenario. So, and I and I make that point only for it to become more prevalent about the feeling she would have and the connection to her son, because at that point, you're not having there's no more kids. This could be the only child we have, right? So this is the only thing that connects us. He's going to feel a lot of whatever the turmoil dad of that environment would have been, and because he's in his adolescence, like what he's what, six, five, six, seven, he's going to absorb way more than maybe the adults that surround him are even aware, Daddy. Yeah, that's correct. And because they're also just trying to survive, because they don't have it all figured out, Dad.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:13

So sometimes when, and we've seen it, like I've watched you in ministry, and you can see when people go into what I call self-preservation mode, it's almost like your your brain switches off its awareness or care for anything other than the its vital thing, which is you. Then what you're doing is you've got two sets of people that have a lot of emotions and feelings to connected to something that the other person may not be aware of, right? So you've got a wife that loves her husband and in private moments has probably heard quite vulnerable conversation that makes her then want to protect him. It can also shade and make certain people look like villains because then she connects it to what her experience is, and she's like, My parents never did this, and my dad was a let's say, because I don't know what her family was, but let's say her dad's a successful billionaire businessman and my mum was a stay-at-home mum. So the balance is completely different because does that make sense, Dad? So it almost felt to me like you have a unresolved emotional feelings that isn't gonna get resolved because there's no communication, two you have a wife who in character may simulate his mum, which creates a because if she's looking at her 2.0, then it's almost like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I didn't work this hard to get in this position to just give up power.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

Does that make sense then? And she also knows that she's dealing with a person that will not relent because she wouldn't relent.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

So then it almost becomes, like you say, in a way, like a fight to the death.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Well, it it is, and um you have a situation where um because it's clear that the level of communication is not there between the two women, you know. Um, so therefore there's no clear understanding of where each coming from. All sh this the the young girl, no, I'm married to this man, yeah, he's mine. You know what I mean? I do not intend to share him with anybody, not even his mom. His mom. And his mom is thinking, this is my son. Yeah. I I I don't I don't I don't intend to lose a son, I intend to gain a daughter. Got you.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Yeah, I yeah, and it's the it's the language, it's the intention behind the language. Because you're not saying that I do not intend to lose my son, but I do intend to gain a daughter.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

So when the gain is not gaining sticking his feet out, I'm not coming where you're you're trying to lead me. Yeah, you see, then it's yeah, they're gonna get out the you know the the whip and started cracking it. But of course, you can't determine love. You know what I mean? So and you can't control who apart. So the boy clearly loved the girl, yeah, um, because he is for him everything he he dream dream about. And he demonstrated by getting married um to her. And so now he's caught between the rock and the very hard place. Yeah, is it me? And um the father, this is the boy's father, he's you know, have his own hard place as well, because that's his son. Yeah, you know, his only son.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

No, no, no. He's got three.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

He's got three. Because they've got four kids, but he's his eldest son, though. He's the eldest one. He's his eldest son. So he's like the first, and he is determined. You don't want, you don't want to lose his son. However, of course, under the circumstances, who you're going to defend, you got to defend by law. I mean human law. Um the wife, your husband has to defend at all costs. Right. Now the same law doesn't apply to the husband. You mean the wife?

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Well, the husband by law has to defend his wife at all costs. But you said that the same rule doesn't apply to the husband, that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

That's right. It's another word, it doesn't apply, the same principle doesn't apply to the wife defending her standard. That's what, yeah, yeah, with with with her husband. Right. So therefore, in the the wife's mind, yeah, she would be loving her son more than the husband.

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Yeah, this is why, yeah, I agree. This is why I think it's got so fraught. Precisely. Because if anything goes wrong, Dad, in her mind, that's who's gonna come and get her, save her every single time. Besides the point. She will, like, and I think obviously she'll mother all of them, but I and I I agree with you completely. I think she will always move to almost protect Romeo and Cruz in that, like, but in terms of the protection that she should naturally feel that the person that will go to bat for her every single time, I believe she'll think that it should be her son. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

So, so, so under, you know, in the face of that.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Do you know how I know this? Because of the way my mum's relationship with my older brother dad. Indeed. Now, and I mean this in a balanced way, because I tease my mum about it. I'm like, because Wallace is her little baby, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:26

No question about it.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

And I'm her conciliary, so we we we talk and we chop up the hard stuff, right? She calls me in when it's nuclear codes. Dad, Sister Orley's eldest son, Dad, this boy has special graces and dispensations that I can only dream of, Dad. Dad, I've said to my mom, I'm like, Why do you love him so much? I just don't know. And the mum was like, I do. He's the first dad, there is something about women and not fighting.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

Of course, of course. And um, I mean, you know, when we have a conference, we're not having a conference. I mean, you can have a conference.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Just about conversations.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

You'll have to say a whole lot more concerning uh uh this, but in reality, that's how she would be seeing it. Yeah, and so as I said, the disappointment is the fact that she would want to know that I'm not losing my son. Yeah, I've I'm gaining a daughter, a daughter, a friend, you know, name it the the the Lord. And um and what she felt that the the girl has done is to a certain degree unforgivable because and it's so public as well. Yes, exactly, because at the end of the day, that's my business, got you.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

But that I will say this, just on the basis of even where his wife is concerned, right? I don't doubt that there are things, and it's always hard sometimes to when you love a person to remain objective and balanced because your love will lean you into a certain element of care for them, right? Now, we get to talk about a lot of things because we've been able to mine a relationship that allows for a lot of honesty, right? Now, when before we got on camera and stuff, you were saying to me like we hadn't seen each other for a couple of weeks, and it felt not great to you, and it was for sure, and there's also elements where I think our relationships evolve to a place where sometimes if there is pending conflict, right, we're much better at taking time out, right? And the communication will be streamlined a little bit and it'll be become a little bit more minimum minimalistic simply because you get to a place where you realize you don't need to blow up the house to make your point. Of course. And if you're in a position where you can't speak with clarity and um objectivity and love, yeah, right, because at the root of everything, the thing that should make everything pure, love, it's the greatest antioxidant.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Well, you see, now that's where you know moving to the solution. Okay. You see what I mean? Because we identify the problem and um we understand the cause um of it, and now the the solution. Now, this is where it is going to take the you know the boy's father. I think you're right.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

I'm so glad you sorry, which one are we doing? We don't know what we high-five in. Which we did? That was hilarious. God, you're talking about day. So you think the solution is with the father?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

I do as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

That is why I think he would have been best advised to limit how much he's agree. And what he said publicly smart. And um, and of course, work it with the son, with the wife, because that's where the real issue is. Um the the the the daughter-in-law, you know, she will come later down the road. 100%. The real thing is that if the son feels that the mother is more accommodating to the daughter-in-law, it's going to make him feel that.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

It puts him in an absolutely different situation. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah. And so they they then, three, can surround her with the necessary love to reassure that look, you're in a family, this is now your family, yeah. As much as you got your the in-laws, but the truth is that we are your family. Oh, and we'll always be. And yeah, and so we want for you to feel that, yes, we may not have liked something you did. However, we are we understand it and we're going to get past it and work it. But you know, what would appear is that somehow in the strength of the boy's mother, she has user.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

I love the fact that you call her the boy's mother. If they ever watch this, Lady Bethel, I'm so sorry. My daddy's of a certain generation talk. The boy's father, the boy's mother, the girl. I love it. Don't change, don't change talk.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

So in the face of that, um it's important.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

She would be, because if he's certain it's lady, right? Yeah. Yeah, lady, lady, lady.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

So it's in in the face of that, that is where I believe that love, um, which they all have for each other. Definitely. You know, is must be the focus. And if that love comes through, yeah, it will dump down the public criticism and and you know the beastly behaviour, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03 42:36

I feel like saying what you said that with the love, it will it will insulate them from the outside noise.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Absolutely. You see, unless, as I said, there is uh spinner.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

No, no, 100%. But can I do you know why what I think you said is so it's so needful and it's so transformative? Because that the reality is every family will be either learning to cope with, yeah, breaking under, or being transformed by traumatic issues. Yes. Yes. Every family, right? So the first thing based off what you said, because as you were talking, it was really beautiful. Um it's just my mind just I shouldn't say that, my spirit started to open a little mind map. And I also want you to tweak this as I as I map this to plot this little route out. When I was younger and you used to go away, I used to really struggle with it. Yeah. The part that I love, because it was such a weird thing. When you're at the airport, about maybe 20 minutes or half an hour before you go through security, you would take us on a walk with you through the airport, right? And often you'd let us buy a toy or something. I love those moments. But I also realised, right, the clock's ticking down because he's gonna go through that crazy slidey door thing that I can't follow him through. And then maybe two minutes by the time we start to bite and you start walking back, that's when I'd start crying, right? And I'd cry the whole way through. But dad, I loved that moment, right? I loved that moment, and I probably think it's even why, even in my adult life, sometimes when we go to the airport, I enjoy the conversation we have when I take you to the airport and such. Now I say this to say, I said that to say this. There will be something that Brooklyn and his dad used to or do enjoy together. Absolutely. Right? That thing will play, will serve as muscle memory to the heart, Dad. Of course. Because what it will do is it will take them both right back to that first iteration and the intention of what it was that it could be them play fighting, they could have set a game up in the garden, they may have gone to golf, or they may have taken these walks together. That moment and that conversation, to me, that seed of communication will bear the fruit of reconciliation because what it allows him to do is to cut away everything that's been added and strip them right back to the thing that mattered most. Because in that moment, Dad, it would have been something that David and his son shared because that was just his son. He wasn't Sir David, he wasn't the football player, he was just dad, right? And to David, Brooklyn wasn't so-and-so's husband, or or he was just his son. And so to me, that that first conversation of just him and his dad, no walls, no judgments, no expectations. Because let's say, Dad, that there may be a bit of truth to my theory that his wife may present and have certain characteristic traits that are similar to his mum's. His dad is the best person to tell him how to navigate said terrain because he's gonna have a certain level of wisdom and experience.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah. Right? Go on, sorry. But one of the things that I think most people are not considering is how how much hurt how hurting David is feeling.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

But that's why I think the conversation between just he and his son, because he then gets to say to him, go, he gets to hit and say, he gets to say to him, You not having my name hurts me because there was a point where you you represented everything my legacy was. Absolutely. Forget the football, forget all of the investments, forget what the what the world says about me, oh I'm the nations, whatever. He'll be able to look his son in the eyes and go, there was a point, and it that point still exists within my heart, where looking at you, you were the whole summer circumference of my world. And should anything happen to me, you're who I expect to look over your brothers and your sister and make and your mum.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

But you know, there is a side that most people perhaps wouldn't even agree with. Go on, but I'd say nobody is taking into consideration how jealous the son has become. Yeah. Where his father and mother is concerned. Okay. Now, if you look back at the history, there was a time when, of course, their paths were like that. Um, both the father and mother. Right. Because she was into her music, he was into his football. Right. Now there was nothing more, you know, greater than seeing a man walking down, in this case, David, walking down that um, you know, that tunnel with his son, not some other kid on the block, his son holding his hand. Yeah. While at that time, the mother was not as prevalent as she's not in this football world. Oh, 100%. Oh, he was the big in the beginning, he was the 100%. That's exactly the point. And so that connectivity that he and his son would have had, he would now have to share it when she sort of more abandoned her music career and take up something that gives her more opportunity to be with him.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

But that, this is why I said to you that I think in some of those moments there would have been conversations, indeed, atmospheric intentions where if you're seeing like the parent you see all the time, like, and this is crazy, right? People will look at us and they'll see how tight we are, indeed, right? But in terms of like when you think about, especially in some of our uh when we were younger, the scale of traveling you did when we got used to you being away, it felt weird when you and mum were away because it the person that we're used to seeing, the constant. Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah. Does that make sense, Dad? And then obviously mum comes back in, like, uh mum's back, but but you know, you tell me I just want my mum, I just want my mum. But it but then people look at you and eye, right? And they'll be like, but I thought you would be, and of course, but after I finish crying for like you get home, you cry for a couple more rounds, and you're like, okay, he'll be back in, however, many weeks. You just get on with it because you're just like you've got to get on with it, right, Dad. So I do, I agree with you, but I also think that there could have been some some shapings, Dad, and some things that happened in that moment that he's maybe carried with him historically. I believe so. I believe that. And success has a way of keeping you quiet about what won't bring more success.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Precisely, and um there's so much dynamics um at play here in the whole thing, just even looking at it from both sides.

SPEAKER_03 50:22

Do you want to part? Do you want to cut it in two? Do you think we should cut it in two? You can do that, you know. No, because I feel like I feel like just watching you, I feel like you want to go and you want to contemplate a little bit on what we've said, and I know you'll also go and have a little bit of look and some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

No, no, no, no, not necessarily. I was sort of saying that um when you consider the other side, that is the girl side, yeah, you know what I mean. They want us to lend themselves to the reality that they are powerful. Powerful. For you want to almost obliterate a powerful name to replace it with another name, but with another powerful name. Well, see, this is it. So therefore, there has to be something that makes that person feel that they are more powerful. But I mean that when but when you think about it, success can do that. Well, see, this is it.

SPEAKER_03 51:19

So when you can convince the the the son to drop or to put his father's name a second place, to put another name, which or just to admariate without even you know consultation.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

It it sends serious messages. Okay, yeah. Yeah, and I think that given the strength and of character where the where uh Brittany's um mother is concerned, yeah, that would be red rock door.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

Oh no, yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, that yeah, 100%. Forget just the China shops, just take out the whole street, yeah. 100%. Dad, can I ask you a question? Is there a space, right, or a world where Beckham, Beckham, oh wow, where Brooklyn can become Switzerland. Now, let me qualify this, right? One thing I think the Swiss do really well is they are what I call conflict neutral. Switzerland will sit and say, I know you're not happy with them. And then they'll say to the others, I know you're not happy with them. Now, we don't think anybody should fight, but should you fight, I'll tell you what, we'll hold the coats, the bags, and the gold.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Switzerland. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

So I'm saying, so I'm using Switzerland as an analogy, right? Yes. So Switzerland is conflict neutral. So what they'll do is someone will come complain to them, you know, so and so did this to them. Oh, there you go, okay, okay, that's not good. You know what they did? Okay, okay. And then those people are like, we're gonna fight. And then Switzerland will be like, I'm not picking sides. But what I will do is I'm gonna hold the coats, the bags, and the gold. And whatever happens at the end, I will commiserate with the oh, there, there, I'm sorry, you lost, right? And then with the winners, he right? Is there a world, Dad, where he can insulate on the basis where he sits both down, right? He has a private conversation with his wife, he has a private conversation with his mum, and he says to his mum, he says, Listen, firstly, I love you. Secondly, I'm sorry if there's anything I've done to hurt you. I didn't do it on purpose. Thirdly, I'll always love you, and I'll always make sure that I'm there for you, and I'll always protect you, but mum, that's my wife. And you have to allow me to be her husband.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

That's Brooklyn, you too. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:04

And you have to allow me to be her husband. Now, I will never put myself in a position where you don't feel like you have access to me because there are things that we've shared and gone through that predate my life and my world with her. I also need you to respect the fact that even though that's true, you won't do anything to come in and disrupt my the atmosphere of my world with her because you have the ability to disrupt my peace. Yeah, right, and then he's able to sit there and say to his wife, listen, I love you. You are the love of my life, you are my wife, you're gonna I'm gonna spend my forever with. But that's my mum, and the same way that your dad has certain things in place that looks after you monthly, right? Because he wants you're his little girl, right? And so he's always going to want to honour and protect you. I don't come in between that relationship because that's your dad. Yeah. Before, and that relationship predated us. Now, I still expect a certain respect level there, but I will never do anything to impact the relationship that you have with your father in the same way. I need you to reflect that same respect on the basis that the relationship I have with my mum means that it is the same thing, but obviously in the reverse. Yeah. Does that make sense? Indeed.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

What I believe is that No, before you tell them what you believe, does that conversation work, Dad? No, it works in some in some cases. Okay. Uh in their case, it's too late. Wow. Um, the horse is already bolted. See, this horse has been running for a long time. Okay. Long before they decide to get married. You see, those two have been sharing family secrets. Right, definitely, of course. But you'd expect them to if their husband were like that. But I mean, to the degree where it's clearly impacting on both of them and you know, given that level. That even with everything that the the the boy's father is, you know, it didn't deter the son from saying the things he's saying. And you know, you know, sort of lay him out before the world's public, a bit like what Ari did to to took.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

But in terms of what this what Brooklyn's come out and said, he hasn't necessarily come out and what I said, like labeled specifics. He's come out and he's explained what it looks like in some.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Well, from what it sounded like is that he has said enough to project and let the world see that he's not overly embracing the family because of what he has been through or how they have been down the road. That's why I said that there are elements in that relationship way back that has not been resolved. Yeah. Yeah. Now, having shared that with each other, this is the couple, the young couple, they feel they're now going to stand up and fight for each other. Right. Is it? And it is that fighting for each other, even though it is damaging, a big lack of experience, of course, and knowledge, don't realize the extent of the damage it's causing to, say, the Beckham and his wife. Right. You know what I mean? Why he has to, whether he likes it or not, stand up with his wife and say, okay, enough is enough. You're my son, I love you, but I'm not going to allow you to, you know, run into the ground, you see. All right. So that is where I think, I think, and again I've used her because I see the same similar situation where way before he met um Megan, they both had issues. Right. She had issues, he had issues. When they meet, they bring it together, and while on one side it looked like they are on trip, you know, so united, but it was ripping an institution apart. Can I ask you a question?

SPEAKER_03 58:46

Is there a space and a world where and this is just like me kind of obviously, I can look at it through quite rose-tinted glasses and objective and idealistic glasses, but to me, there is never a space where what I've risen to will ever be more important than my family or uh a certain self-styled image that I'm trying to give to the world. Only for this reason. Firstly, I can completely respect the fact that Brooklyn's parents come from a generation where dad they have exceeded expectation. Do you understand what they've grown up with and known compared to what they've been able to provide for their kids? I can completely see why they'd be like, you have nothing to complain about. I don't even care if sometimes they were shouting in the house and da da da da. Do you see what you have access to? Like in terms of you having an open, clear lane to be like you can do whatever you want to do, and we're the reason for that, right? I can completely, dad, completely sit here and go, if they wanted to be like that, and if they are like that, I can completely understand it. However, my kind of obviously reflection on it is that I would like to think that as a parent, I understand that with each iteration of my family, so with each generation, there are going to be certain ideas that are going to feel alien to me, but they're not going to be irrelevant simply because obviously I would have grown up in a certain period and time and space dad where what I experienced and what I know to be my normal is different from what you would have known to be your normal. Does that make sense? So then all of a sudden, my expectations of what I think parenting should be based on the information I'm now privy to is completely different compared to the information that you would have grown up and going, right, cool, this is what makes a solid parent, and this is what does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

And so that's why there's a part of me where I completely agree with what you're saying, but I feel like because the parents are, like you said, wiser and more experienced, that they would be able to sit there and go, okay, I can listen to what his and I put in quote gripes and grievances are, and I'm able to see past the manifestation of the expression and see the her at the root, which allows me to not agree with his action, but what I'm able to do is I'm able to understand it to then have a conversation so that he can then also we can exchange perspectives for perceptions. Because I've always said that that perspective tells me how you saw it, which is past tense, and perception tells me how you see it, which is present. And sometimes there's nothing worse than you talking in past tense and me talking in present tense, and we're not understanding each other because we're necessarily not taking the time to go, oh, actually, I'm I'm seeing it from your space, which gives me a whole different picture to the narration I've been kind of commentating on. Does that make sense? Yes, indeed. And do you think that's possible?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

It is possible, and as I said, that you know all situation has to be looked at in its own merit. Yeah. Um, when you look in general at a lot of um celebrities, yeah, this their the general relationship would seem dysfunctional. And yet they are the people who has all the resources, all the assets.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:43

Or it would have the appearance of all the resources, all the assets.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

And yet you'll find more destruction, more breaking down in relationship and all the rest, because other things as replaced what's supposed to be that maternal and paternal relationship between them and their children. And so, in like manner, that's why when you when I look at the situation discerningly, I can see how traumatic the young man's past has been. You know what I mean? And um I would say even more than the than the wife. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So when he then felt that he had something that can fuel the way he's feeling, he had no second thought going along with it, no matter what destruction it would need for the legacy of mum, uh dad and mom, you know, and it is whether or not, but don't forget that the the the self-medication or the medication of self-pain is is like uh is like morphine.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:07

And when you're blowing up everything around you, you all of a sudden you don't feel no heat, you can't feel no licks, like does that make sense until later on.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Oh, yeah, when it wears off, yeah, you know, and that is what they would have to buy themselves some time to allow it to die down, as I said, unless there is that element of spin.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:32

Well, my thing is is that I would like to think, and it's like, and you've said a couple things that are very key. The level of what's happened, where it's got to, and then you kind of look at the backstory, you can kind of I think it's an element of well, if we can't control the situation, then like you said, no press is bad press, right? But it that then means that everybody has gone into their independent bunkers and they're not all connected potentially. So I'm looking at is there any form of resolution and what are the first steps for reconciliation?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

I think the first thing that will have to happen is that um And you're gonna fall to David in particular to grow some some more strength. Um and sort of take his wife and uh and his son and say, okay, now this is far enough and we are going to need to fix it. Then they have to take the daughter in law, the daughter-in-law, and let her understand that she is joining a family, right? You know, and therefore You need to know that collaboration with each other is the basis of having a very meaningful relationship with both laws and in-laws. You know. And that would be the first thing. But it has to be born out of love. And is what is going to make the difference. Now, again, as I said, I see element in Brooklyn's mother that need addressing. Right. And it has to do with the fact that she fought her way to the top. Yeah. And still fighting. You know, she is not say, okay, I'm sitting on my laurel. Because David could just could just go out there and say a pure word for Afanike and hundreds of thousands of pounds flowing into his account. Right. With her, it clearly takes more, and she clearly wants to maintain her independence. I mean, she's doing alright, Dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:19

Oh yes, I'm not. I mean, really alright. I think, and I agree with what you're saying. I just think it's more of a in terms of her trajectory, she's set. And I think when you get to a certain level, there is a certain there is a certain kind of what's the word? Um, there's a certain nuance around how you handle things within your social circles. Right? Because that's where that's what happens when you get to a certain successful level. You you don't really answer to the general Joe blogs, you answer the people that you meet in the places that you frequent and where you hang out, and I don't see her as being what I call a hermit that she ain't gonna stay in a house. So the the the thing that I and I agree with everything that you've said the thing that I would really like to hope to see is that potentially David and Victoria can see Brooklyn and his wife, they can see themselves in them, right? And I I I can only imagine because I don't have kids, so I don't know what it's like, and you obviously you know are probably the best person to ask. It must be the most infuriating thing when you know you're trying to give your child great advice and they're not listening. Indeed, right? One moment, Dad. And so on that basis, it has to be what I call David and Victoria would have grown up in an era, dad, where it's do as I say because that's what I said. Right? And I'm a teacher, you've been in ministry for the longest, we could both sit here and we could definitely say that as much as you tell people it's what you do that teaches them best, right? So if there can be an element where, with all the accomplishments and the achievements, which is amazing, of course it's amazing, but Dad, you're not taking any of that stuff with you, right? So then it has to be about wanting to leave within the person, of course, every good parent wants to be able to leave their child something or to be able to leave something in the world that stands testament to their time here and what someone okay, cool, perfect, they're doing that, but then surely knowing the poor success rate within celebrity families that are in that spotlight. The the the the the prize of being able to go, do you know what? We're gonna make sure we've got some balanced, rooted human beings that know not only how to exist when the lights are on, but how to be even more real and and be even more united when the lights go off, and even if that is in conflict, because there is a good way dad to be able to sort out problems when there are issues, it doesn't always have to be a war. Does that make sense? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

When I look at both sides of the family, you see David and Brooklyn are very similar. Okay, David's wife and Brooklyn's wife are very similar. Agreed. So if they're really gonna make progress, given the fact that the wife cares for her son, she has to be the one to broker a deal and understanding with that other woman because of the about the boat nature that they have.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:14

I love it. You got you you without even me asking, you you gave the the big answer. So the mum has to, well, firstly, she has to be okay with brokering a piece. Absolutely. Because it it rests on her.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

Yeah, and that is with the daughter, yeah. While the father has to do it with the son. Got it. Got it. Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

I get it. Dad? I thoroughly enjoyed that. Oh I don't know why I had to use the word thoroughly. It sounded so proper, but that was brilliant. Honestly. What are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

It's a learning curve.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

Of course it's a learning curve. Thank you to everybody that's taking the time to watch us today. It's been well, hopefully that you've enjoyed it and that there are things that you've been able to take away that you can use in your own conflict resolution, and also little things that you can remember when something is happening that doesn't always feel great to you. Don't forget to take care of yourself and each other. We'll see you next time. For me, bye. Dad, do you want to say bye?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Stay blessed.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:18

I think it's that one. Awesome.