Friendship | Part one

In this episode the duo discuss the pair discuss the power of friendship, its receding value in a transactional society and the need to stay connected to the right people in a disconnected world. Shean admits to his struggles failure of maintaining the friendships of value in his life, and his struggles in sustaining the new connections he makes based on his nature and work preference. His Dad offers different perspective that would lean him into balance through wisdom. Sit back, relax and enjoy another conversation with Yo Pops Podcast.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hi everybody and welcome to this episode of Yo Pops with me, Sean Williams and my dad.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Blessings to you all.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

We hope that you all enjoyed our last episode and it is causing you to have great conversations with your loved ones and those close around you. And so we're going to jump into today's episode. But firstly, before I do that, how are you done?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I am good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I am good indeed. Looking very sunny today.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yes, I think the sun is shining and it reflects on me.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Self-reflecting sunny.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Also, I've got I was teasing my dad earlier because he sent me a video note this morning. And I felt like you thought I was checking in on you rather than actually just trying to say good morning. It was very official the video note you sent me.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I think sometimes I forget to get out of the official mode.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Do you know what? High five, Dad. I wasn't expecting that level of honesty so quickly. No, no, I'm being serious. And sometimes, you know, I've actually had uh moments of recent time where I can be a little bit harder on you than I think I mean to be. Um and so yeah, to I allow you to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Okay, so that's fair. Because you see, you're having to learn something that when junior comes around, you see me. Yeah, you you're equipped, yeah. Equipped to so you're allowing you to practice your position.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Okay, so as I was saying before, um I remember when I was reviewing a couple of the podcasts, we were talking, I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm really grilling him.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

If Juna ever comes, you know, Janice.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Okay, and so well done, Dad, if you're honest. I'm very proud to review. Um, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. That really just threw me. It isn't, yeah, it is um so dad. Firstly, the last conversation we had was fantastic. Um, and I've had some lovely feedback, even on some of the social stuff that we put out, and it's causing some wonderful conversations of people and those closest to them. Dad, I wanted to look into um friendship, especially amongst men, um, because I think it's something that is friendship, it is very a very generic topic. However, I think when you get to a certain age, those that you either identify with as friends or those that you keep around you, I think they have a very specific purpose within your life. Right. Um, and as I was doing some research and reading, obviously with it being Men's Health Month, I'm realizing that there are a lot of men that are they have the surface visual basis of what friendship is, but in terms of what it actually is, um it would appear that they don't necessarily have that kind of relationship. So I was kind of looking at some of the things that that young men are dealing with, and not only young men, but men in general are dealing with, um, and I wanted to basically put some questions to you. I wanted to find your take because I think it's something that's quite important at this time. Um, lots of people are feeling isolated, um, and they're feeling isolated either because of circumstances in their life, um things going on within work or their different circles that they move in. Um and I'm realizing that friendship in its truest form isn't as prevalent as it once used to be. Right. And so I like I said, I wanted to look at a couple of things. Um, and the first question I guess I wanted to ask you, Dad, was um, why is it becoming harder for people, especially young men, to form deep friendships?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Okay. Um, I think technology is playing a major, major role in that situation. And um, why that is, prior to the advancement of technology and introduction of things like social media, people find time to interact, go places together, hang out together, and communication was far more um prevalent than it is today. Now with the with the present technology and especially the social media, it it is something that has eroded that level of connectivity. That's a good word, I assume. And people find it far less challenging to sit behind a phone or you know and to sit in person in the phone. Indeed, yes. And so with that, they find that it sort of protects their vulnerability and as a result they just feel that okay, I can just have a lot of friends, but no real deep emotional connection with them.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

I was gonna ask you, Dad, do you think that it's easier to lie behind a screen than it is to sit in front of a person and lie to their face?

SPEAKER_00 5:42

I I don't think it is so much lie that is the key factor. I think it's vulnerability. I think people find it's far less challenging when people don't see you crying, for example, or don't see you becoming emotional about something. So I think people find it more comfortable to be vulnerable, you know, without being present to a person.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

And I think that's what is going on in the background in most people's So, in terms of when you say it's easier to be privately vulnerable than publicly vulnerable, would you then maybe do you think it would be right to suggest that then most friendships in today's society are only surface-level relationships?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

A lot of it is, a lot of it is, and as I said, is that people are more gravitating to to quantity than they are to quality, and if I had to advise people is to seek out quality than just mere quantity.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

It's a question, Dad. What would um ingredients of character quality look like potentially?

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I think I think number one, when a person um becomes your friend, you have a certain level of connectivity, share certain values, and I think it's looking at those values, you know, for example, level of integrity, honesty, sincerity, and all of that that may be compatible to who you are, that is going to consolidate that friendship. And so that is what a lot of people don't take time to cultivate. So they would just be happy with somebody saying, you know, typing a couple high yellow and just really lose conversation with no real meaning or no real impact. You know, you can't really show that character of the individual and just a few, you know, one-liners, etc.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Question, Dad. You use the term connectivity quite a bit. And just for those that may be watching and want kind of a more specific idea of what you mean when you say connectivity, what do you refer to when I'm saying connectivity?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Connectivity comes both in spirit as well as it comes in um in your your soul. Okay, your emotional. Yeah, your emotional so on. So when you find people that are compatible to you, then it's because they connect with you and some of these levels, and it is what that's what makes them your friend. So what might be some of the levels that you people might connect with you on that or be compatible, excuse me, with your first and foremost, I think um the immediate would be emotional because the emotional, because that's what you see, the intellectual. You you you you're quickly to identify with someone who is um who's got demonstrate that character, demonstrate sincerity, et cetera, et cetera. So that's gonna be the first thing. So that is like the magnet that brings you together, and then if you're spiritually connected, then you're gonna be friends for life.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah. I hear that. Um I wanted to ask you what is the impact positively and negatively of social media within the development, the maintenance, and the growth of friendship, like positively and negatively. What do you think? How do you think social media has impacted that?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Um social media is a bit like some of our fast food, um, the preverbal McDonald's, et cetera, et cetera. Um, which you just turn up, order a quick thing, don't bother to think about how it's prepared, what is in it, you just want a quick fix. Social media is a bit like that. It's a quick fix. Now, the that's that's the the downside, in my view, um, to it. Of course, there are a positive side to it because you have quick access without too much of too much intrusion. So, for example, if you if you're feeling vulnerable at midnight, you know, rather than getting up and going to somebody's house, disturbing the whole family, you can just send a message and and you know, the person would react almost straight away. And so that is very positive. So it doesn't matter where they are in the world, yeah, you can almost have access to them. Now the the downside is is that it does not cultivate for what I call close friendship. Yeah. And it is what people really need in a time where you see so many people are experiencing all kinds of emotional struggles. Yeah. It's nice to know there is someone physical in your environment that you can reach out to, that you can touch, you can get a hug from. An imagery hug isn't the same as a tangible hug, you know. I mean, I wouldn't have liked it if I come in and you give me an imagery hug.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

I'm sending you a hug, and you're like right next to me. Why don't you give me one?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

In these. And so it makes a difference. It communicates far more effective. And I would say that is what makes a difference. Now, you can then choose how many as, and this is where now the quality versus the quantity comes in into play. Because you're gonna say, all right, for real friends, you really need everybody need to have at least three to five genuine friends around them, people who, you know, at the at a moment's notice, they will drop whatever they're doing to come to your aid, and you likewise to them. And so that for me brings security, it brings comfort, reassurance, um, and when you call them your friend, it really has meaning to it.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Dad, I wanted to ask you this question. Um do you think trust has a major part to play in not only people being able to maintain friendships, but also for them to be able to develop them and start them? And if you're dealing with a person that is suffering with trust issues, how would you encourage them to overcome those to then allow themselves to experience something that like you know, like you said, we all need.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Honestly speaking, I think that trust is not the number one priority should be in people's life, is love. Right. Because if you trust somebody and you don't love them, you know what I mean, it won't take much to break that trust. But when you love somebody, you trust them, and even if they falter, which human beings unfortunately are prone to doing, yeah, love can heal that quite quickly. And that is what I think people lack. There's a lack of genuine love among people, and it doesn't matter whether it's family, it doesn't matter whether it's friends, neighbors, relatives, etc. So when you have that love, it covers, as we say, multitude of sins.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

So would you say that love is the or one of the foundations of the found the chief cornerstone of any relationship?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Because I mean, when you do me something and because of how much I love you, I overlooked it. I've I find um because you call me a copy cracking drugs. Yeah, it it helps you to find justifiable reasons.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Were you trying to say when I do something to you? Yes, I'm saying do anything to me. Yeah, but you said when you do something to me, I'm just like Did you not say a minute ago that you're hard on me? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Oh, good. Okay, so that's what I'm saying to you.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

That was that's in conversation.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

No, that was your diplomatic way of saying that you're horrible to me sometimes, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Firstly, that's not true. I may not be as what's the word okay, we have a great chemistry, right? So when we get when we are together, we get on when we get on better when we're not getting on than some people when they're really getting on.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

So that also means that in the organic balance of it, there'll also be other times where because we're honest, I don't have to dress up how I feel, as long as I'm not being disrespectful, of course. Right?

SPEAKER_00 15:59

Yes, so there are times when I'll be like, I'll be a little bit more forthright, but I've also got to a place where I'm like Do you get the feeling that he's he's struggling to justify it?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

I'm not struggling to justify it, I'm trying to explain to you why what you're thinking might be slightly wrong, and so there are times when I'll be like, okay, I understand that because sometimes I will project onto you something that I'm feeling within myself, of course. And so because I let the first one go, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Indeed, indeed, I didn't know this.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I did try to just I know which is what I thought you see very well. Would you like to take your question? Okay, do you want to put a silent?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Uh well, okay, let me um perhaps switch it off.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

No, it's okay, okay, cool. Okay, so um, yeah, so there are times when I I did I recognize with myself awareness that I was being hard on you, but also I think this is beautiful within the conversation. I think because there are dimensions of our relationship where you allow me to experience you on that level, that I will take I'll always love my dad, but there are moments where I might take my dad friend for granted, indeed, right? And then my expression of that is purely about how I feel because sometimes that's how I'll be, sometimes with my friends, I don't express how I feel in its most in its most truest form. Um but like you said, because love is built as the chief cornerstone, yeah, everything else exactly.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

Can you know it can it can deal with it, yeah, as even the Bible referred to it as covers, yeah, you know, I think and and that is why it's important because for a lot of people, yeah, they've never really exposed to a lot of trust in their lives. And so it needs some in in some instances it needs to be cultivated, and it takes somebody who loves you to cultivate something good in you rather than just have an expectation. And that is why you know I say to people, forget about expectation, just work with cultivation.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

That's actually brilliant. Forget about expectation, work with cultivation because what you're doing is you're committing to the process of bringing it to instead of waiting for it to happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

And you take, you know, it it it addresses any element of failure or weaknesses or misunderstanding because you're cultivating it.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yeah, um, dad, I wanted to ask you this question what role do you think masculinity plays now in how men form friendships? And do you think because of projected masculinity that we often avoid emotion like strong emotional bonds with other men because of it? And if that is the case, why?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah. Masculinity is is in most men as uh as as a uh as a male thing, and but we're also seeing that being eroded more and more as we as we go forward and the world changes into something that most things seem to be in cyberspace, you know, in reality. So some people don't have the opportunity to really develop that masculinity. And even those who do, it may be under very difficult and devious circumstances. Um however, it is something that is being eroded, as I said, um with what we are seeing, especially in social media, um everyone is almost being made to feel that if you're too masculine, you are really out of sync with general society. And and so it's it seems almost you know offensive to be considered as too masculine or you know gearing to be something of that nature. So I think that men feel that, okay, if you are less masculine, it's an advantage, it is a disadvantage because people expect you to show your emotions and to act a certain way. While if you are masculine, people think okay, you shouldn't show your vulnerability and all of that, which uh uh any any of the extreme is not good. There has to be a balance.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

And and that is where I think that people struggle to find that balance, yeah, and especially in today's society.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Do you know what, Dad? It's so funny you say that because whilst I was doing like some research and stuff, I came across this term called manosphere, and I was just like, okay, and I at first I ignored it because it just sounded like one of those new age fandango words where you're just like, well, yeah, great, manosphere. Dad, when I started to research what this thing was, it shocked me because the reality is what it's built off of is not wrong. No, but what fitly joins the frame of building together is completely wrong. Indeed, indeed, and it's it's like masculinity has been hijacked by men and um projectors in a way where it's almost like something. Thing that is firm. So the reason why you said love is the chief cornerstone is because firstly the chief cornerstone is the thing that the rest of the building fits on, right? Dad, so it's the most stable, secure thing. Now imagine if you've got an unstable, insecure thing claiming to be the chief cornerstone. Yeah. Then what you then have are what I call these um coping mechanisms that feel like the thing. It's almost like you remember Dad when sometimes you go to the doctor and the doctor knows you haven't really got a problem, but you just need something to take. So he'll be like, oh yeah, tell me about and they go through the thing and you'll put on the stethoscope and you'll listen. Now he and I both know that there's nothing wrong.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And then they'll give you this thing called a placebo. That's right. Yeah. Dad, I am convinced that this generation of young men are being fed a placebo version of masculinity. Indeed. Yes. Because true, true, true masculinity must take on the balance of strength and sensitivity. Because I don't even want to say weakness, no, no, that's a good word. Sensitivity. Because when something is more sensitive, then you put things around it to aid it and to secure it. And the reason why I love the conversation we're having is because what it does is it that it perfectly meanders, in my opinion, between between strength and sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

Because within the man is the strength of creation. But it's the sensitivity of humanity.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Indeed. And I feel that a lot of women are find that that is a lack in a lot of modern men.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Which is why they then have to almost take on the city. Precisely, yes. And then a man's like, well, I can't, because you're indeed.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

And um, and so when you have that, and of course, led the the the statement they were just used a minute ago, you know, there are those who to a certain degree have gone to the extreme to set up societies, yes, institutions, another thing to try to facilitate the lack of masculinity in men. But of course, like in so many cases, they go to the extreme. Where when women in general look our feminism, feminism look at it, they're saying, okay, you know, you seem like you are against us and you are, you know, misogynists, you know, in your outlook and your general practice. And um, and so it becomes a point of clashing with those women who feel okay, we need um to be better recognized, better supported, and better greater acknowledgement as to who we are.

unknown 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

And here is a group that is saying, okay, no, you know, we don't think you you should be that, and we've got us as men who are playing or should play this greater dominant role. And that is where I think the lack of balance sort of comes in. And um, while intentions are good, execution, implementation does not reflect what makes for cohesive existence between both.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

And that's the word that cohesive existence. Because when I look at what I call the manosphere movement, it feels like a poor answer to feminism. Indeed. It is literally that against that, and then you look at it and you go, and even just from something that you said, if women feel like they're having to step into more male-oriented roles, then you can see why a movement like feminism will gather such pace because it's like, well, you don't want to recognize me for the job that you get recognized for, yeah, that you should be doing, but you're derelict in your duties, and I'm having to do, which would then lead me to this question, Dad. How do we create a safe space for men to be emotionally vulnerable but also to gain what I call communal strength?

SPEAKER_00 26:21

That is where that's where I think friendship. Um, you know, the the general ethos of what we're discussing is friendship recession. And, you know, to to come out of recession, you have to really make positive effort to address, to address the situation, um, whether mental or economically or whichever way it is.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

So then let's come up with a five-point plan then. Yeah.