Pops asks the questions

In this episode of Yo Pops we see a change in pattern as Shean is grilled by his Dad concerning certain issues that the parental generation would like to know from the younger generation. In this exchange the two compare and contrast approaches and understanding based on historical teaching and practical experience. You can see the conceptual bridge of time that is built with every passing question and differing outlook, as the two regularly leave their positions of perspective to grasp and hold the other's idea of perception.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hello everybody and welcome to Yo Pop's podcast with me, Sean and my dad.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Blessings to you.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

I love the two-finger piece. That was amazing. Um, today we have a slightly different format. Um, as you can see, that my father is holding the key cards. So he's going to be in the hot seat, I guess, in one sense. But before we put him in that hot seat, guys, thank you for all of your support and everything that you're doing to follow us on this journey. Please like, subscribe, and share my father's personal URL, Bishop LA Williams at Bishop LA Williams, and mine is at Sean Williamsworld. And also, as you know, please follow the podcast on the various platforms at Yopops Poddy on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube, Patreon, and also you can stream us everywhere. I know you've been seeing the socials, so um, you will be seeing all the downloads, and I want you all to please download on every platform you can Spotify, Apple, Amazon, Deezer, Listen Podcast, Podcast Index, Buzz Sprout, they're all there. Um, very quickly before we hand over to our host for today. Dad, how are you? I am fine and you? I'm feeling very good. You're looking very cool. Keeping cool is a good day. Well, I was talking about cool, but I was also talking about cool, cool. Oh, so like when a person looks cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I get your point, yes. Nice. Uh yes, I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Um, I guess I better do the the thing that we all fear most and pass you the reins and let you drive this vehicle for the next 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Of course. Of course, I've been I've been driving a quite a while, so I don't know if you can sit back, relax.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Well, I don't know about sit back and relax, but I'll I'll keep my eyes peeled.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Uh take it away, dad.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Okay, we just want to say uh welcome to everyone and uh it's exciting. I must say, and so yes, yes, okay now behave yourself, Sean Williams. Okay. Now, of course, I'm putting Sean three spaces, and the first question to you is as a son observing the challenges that fathers and sons go through, what would be your first piece of advice to encourage a better relationship with their fathers?

SPEAKER_00 2:38

That is a really good question.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Thank you. I always come with the best. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

So ask the question one more time so I can just make sure I've assimilated everything you're asking.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

As a son, observing um the challenges that fathers and sons go through, what would be your first piece of advice to encourage a better relationship between fathers and sons?

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Okay, I think I'd break this down to um three key principles. Ask, listen, approve. Ask, listen, approve. Okay. Ask because you develop what you do is especially with with sons, there will always be a certain element of either wanting to outdo match 100%. 100% because I think it's within there is something within what I call the male makeup that is quite competitive to a level. Um and a lot of the time, it's okay. For example, when we were younger, you used to love racing with us. Yes, yes, up until a certain age. When we got to a certain age, if we bought the subject, oh God, let's race, you would you'd find more reasons to kind of give options against it than for it. For it, yeah. Why? Because just through the the nature of time, the handover meant that we, as we got older, we got stronger. Indeed. We got faster. Right? And and so it'd almost be like, and I don't mean this in the way it's gonna sound, because there's a lot that the first model that's the older, the newer model can learn from the first model. It would be like Windows 95 talking to the MacBook Air Pro.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

They have the capacity to do similar things, but one has a faster operating system. Right. Right? But the Windows was the first model, so there are things in the fundamental of that first model that makes it like solid. Does that make sense? So I would say first thing you need to do, ask questions. Ask questions because um it allows you to understand without you assuming based on the visual. And most of us were like, we look outside and go, oh, it's a sunny day.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

So you think that fathers that sons are not asking enough?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

No, but I also think that fathers aren't creating the atmosphere or the environment for sons to ask in a way that allows for the for what I call the honest, the honest interaction of conversation. Because a lot of the time I think fathers will will lean into a space with their sons of of trying to give information and not have conversation.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Do you want to expound a little bit more on this three?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

I was trying, and you asked me another question.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Okay, was that?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

All right, I let you go back. Okay, cool. So, what I was trying to say when I was talking about the models of like the computers was the basis of we get to the MacBook Air because we get the first models, and then those creators they talk amongst themselves and they exchange information that goes, okay, this is what we have, this is what we need to do to make it better. Why? Because those using it will go, I love Windows 95, but I wish this could be a bit faster, I wish that could be. So when they're making the next model, they're aware that when we put this together, these are the things that we're going to need, right? And these are things that are going to make people's experience better. The second point is if you get to a place where you feel like, and I think this is just human nature, if you feel like you can ask a question and you're being listened to, in turn, it's very easy to listen. If you're consistently made to feel like you're either being spoken at or spoken down to, it makes you not want to listen.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And I do sometimes think that, and this is just me, and I'm looking at my friends having children. I do sometimes look at my friends, and I don't mean it's way it's gonna sound not resentment, but when you look sometimes at the relationship between mothers and sons, fathers sometimes feel a little bit left out, right? Right, which then means when they're meant to help their son, I almost feel like sometimes they're going, I'm gonna help the person that's taking away everything that I want and I love and that is good for me in terms of an attention basis, right? And an affection basis and so on and so forth. And so I think sometimes that can shape what the interaction is based on what the atmosphere and the environment of how they live and what's and what his model would have been from his father's relationship and potentially his father's relationship with his grandfather. Um, so I think if you're in the space where you can ask questions in a safe environment and feel like you're being heard, it then makes it easy for father and son to listen, which then means that when I go and proof what you're asking, A, I go to proof it with your best intentions and wishes at hand, but also you're open to the space where you're like, he might find a more efficient or a better way than what I knew. So he'll use the fundamentals and the foundations of what you gave him in terms of information, but because he has some of your bug fixes, he might find a more efficient and better way to kind of get that information or to learn that skill. So I would say to improve the relationship between fathers and sons, it's the ability to ask, listen, improve.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Um my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Did that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Um, yes, it really did, uh, given the fact that it was just thrown at you. So you did an excellent job, I think. But can I be honest?

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Dad, it's really easy to ask when you because they don't know at home. We had like a pre-production meeting yesterday, and you were like, Sean, I've got questions you want to lay out. I was like, no.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Yes, I didn't need to that was quite good.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Why? Because the first 10 episodes of this podcast, my model taught me how to answer on the fly. Yeah, yeah. That there's enough wisdom in your well. I don't need to go to the river and go fetch water. There's water in there, Dad. Okay. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So, what I'm then able to do is I sit there and I go, all right, he's gonna ask me a bunch of spontaneous questions. What would he do? Based on conversations I've had with him. He likes to take a quiet time, he'll pray, he'll meditate, then he'll relax. Okay. So, what do you think I did yesterday? Okay, you did exactly that.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Okay, second question coming up. What do fathers need to know about their sons, especially in the early part of young adult life? Should I repeat it again? Yes, while you're at uh formulating something. No, no, yeah. Yeah, that's what do fathers need to know about their sons, especially in the year in the early part of a young, their young adult life, adult life. It's a good one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Well, yeah, it's not bad at all. Um but no, can I you know why I'm taking my time with it? Because I understand you're from a generation where how I present information is going to be key to how you hear it. And I don't want to block your ears off by saying something that appears to be curt or sharp. And do you think all the fathers are like that? Yeah, we're sensitive, men are sensitive, dad. Okay, alright. And the worst thing is is that we're sensitive whilst pretending we're not. Do you understand what I mean? What are sons? Well, sons are men as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

So sons learn from fathers. Yes. So sometimes so if you're sensitive and he's overly sensitive, he's just upscaled your sensitivity. Yeah. So it's the reason why a man can be, let's say, let's say there's a family event, right? And this the husband doesn't want to go because there is a member of the family that he doesn't like to be around, and when you get to the bottom of why you don't like to be around, somebody did something that was so innocuous, and you're like, why would you not just go and I don't mind why should I have to no, you'd rather kind of hold it and whilst whilst, excuse me, I think within female circles, it's much more acceptable to be more visually expressive about what displeases you to then talk it out, even if it gets loud. Right, right, which is why I think women have done amazing in living so long because a lot of the stuff that we pent up and hold, they're like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna get that out, I'm gonna tell you exactly how I feel, and then they'll get on the phone and then have another two-hour conversation about it, and then by the time they go to bed, they got rid of all of it. Does that make sense? Of course. Um, and so that's a good question. I think give it to me one more time.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Why do fathers need to know about their sons? Especially in the early part of their young adult life.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

They're trying to figure it out. They don't have it set.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

The sons don't have it set. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

They're trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

And so you think fathers need to know that?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, because because I think sometimes you we we move into two spaces. Um, and this was some of what we touched on in the last conversation. If you go to your father and you tell him you have it figured out and he doesn't believe in the method that you have, he'll wait to potentially watch you stumble and fall. You think that's that's uh that's fathers, sometimes, yes, dad, because fathers are less nurturing than mothers, right? So a mother will see a baby walk in, oh, he's gonna fall. Yeah, a father might no, he needs to fall so he can learn to get up. Yeah, I get you. That is two completely different intentions to parenting, right? Yeah, neither's wrong, just different. Yeah. So when fathers see sons, they're not always looking at where they are, they're looking at where they can get to. So they're trying to give them information for down the road. Okay, and the son thinks it's information for now, which then butts heads, he then says, Oh, I don't agree, or he gives you his, and then you then sit there going, Well, I've lived this life and da-da-da-da-da. All right, cool, we'll see. And nobody realizes that you're talking based on perspective, yeah, which is how you saw it because you've gone through it, and he's speaking based on perception, he's telling you how he sees it, so you're talking past tense, he's talking present tense, nobody understands what anybody's saying, and caboocio. Does that make sense, Dad? Yes. And I think if fathers can sit there and go, okay, I need to help him work this out and lean into moments where they were in the same space in their young male life, they will see similarities. Right. And what it should also help them to do is to not lean into what didn't work for them. Right. Does that make sense? And I think oftentimes we hear um parents will sit and say, and especially of your generation, that I worked so hard to give you what I didn't have. Right. And whilst that's an amazing intention, at times it comes at the cost of the balance of forgetting to give me what you also did have. Does that make sense, Zad? And so then what that allows me to do is it allows me to see the intention of your your your will and your what you want good to happen for me, but it also allows me to bed in the discipline of what will allow me to then manage the good things that will be coming. Because the reality is you only got to give me better because you came out of worse. Right. Okay. And sometimes with that intention, it's like you just want me to live in spring and summer. And I oh yeah, and I can't. Because there must come a time when the leaves start to fade. And we had this conversation the other day that, like, and even drive into the location, the weather is amazing, um, everything's bright and blooming. You look close at those trees, they're they're starting to lose colour. And some of them are starting to fall. You go into the road and go tell everybody autumn's on its way. I mean, seriously, we go outside right now and go, ah, autumn's coming. Everybody will look at me like, this man is crazy. Like, yeah, we know, but it ain't here. And yet, Dad, I can go pick one of those leaves up off the ground and go, now tell me it's not here.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

So, do you think then that um that the young, it's sons in this case, it's just not ready to hear the wisdom of experience.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

How bluntly can I put this?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Cameras right there, it's it's blunt. Because you're talking to so many young men. No, we're ready to hear it. You're poor at translating it.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

You think so?

SPEAKER_02 17:03

No, I'm telling you. Do you think the father's a poor translating? Let me tell you why.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

If I go up to Newcastle and I speak with either a really heavy southern accent or a Jamaican one, we're gonna have massive issues understanding each other. If I take a Brummy and do the same thing, they're gonna have issues. If I take a scouse person and take them to Cornwall, problems. Simply because the language is English, the dialect is Geordie, Brummy, Scouse, West Country, and there are times when just for the changing of dialect, same with Patwa dad. Right? There are there are certain people there are certain people who are of Jamaican heritage that can speak patwa. Depending on how deep you get into more bush areas, rural areas, yes, you may not be able to understand that person dad. Because the dialect is it's deeper. Doesn't mean that they're not speak, they could say the exact same thing as you and you wouldn't catch it.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

So how then are they the sons are gonna bridge the gap given the explanation? And that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

It's you can't right. The reason we got the MacBook Air is because it was a derivative of the first model. How on earth is a MacBook Air gonna tell Windows 95 what what the first word document should look like and so on and so forth? It's not, it's a conversation of of reciprocal value. So the problem is that a lot of the time, and it's why I I'm I'm very I always often tell you that I'm very proud of you and impressed with you, because you you haven't allowed the season of your life to stop you from intentionally wanting to learn. So because you intentionally want to learn, things that other men in your generation either can't bridge, refuse to do, or won't see, that doesn't stop you. Which means that we can sit in this space and the whole world can feel like they can lease my dad. They're not saved or Christian believing or have the same upbringing as me, but yet you have found a way to break down the wall of partition, which a lot of the time is generational partitions, and you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

So before we move on to the next question, but first, did you understand what I just said? I yes, I understand it, um, but I just needed to ask another question to help those who are listening. No, I get it. Yes, I mean, so so what in in the most simplest of terms um would you now say to the father and son, how do they bridge that gap that in that hear him on the base of how you would have wanted your father to hear you.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

If you could speak to your dad in the most honest and open and vulnerable way, how would you have wanted my grandfather to hear you? That's how you listen to him. Okay. And if you can do that, then what you do is you take away the title of dad and you become a man that is a father that wants to love his son. And sometimes it is from projection, dad, and not perception why so many relationships between parents and children get ruined because everybody's trying to hold up this this standard of well no, I'm da-da-da-da-da, and I can't. And in an honest way, sometimes I see it with my brothers. My little brother lives on the other side of the world, and there are times when my heart hurts dad because I shared a room with him. Right. I know my brother beyond the visual aspect of him, so there are things in his nature, whether he's quiet or he's doing this, uh that I almost know what's happening. And you know when I really had a breakthrough in my relationship with my brother? When I stopped treating him according to how I felt he should be treated. And it was little things like when he didn't want to talk, I just left him. Okay. And I'd message him and I'd be like, we'll get on to the next question. Wait, I'd message him, and no, the reason why I'm saying this, Dad, is because it's important, because it goes just beyond fathers and sons, it's mothers and daughters, mothers and sons, sons and mothers, brothers and sisters, brothers and brothers, sisters and brothers. Do you understand what I'm saying? I do. It's getting yourself out of the way enough to understand that if if it's You're the other point in the conversation, you're already in it. So then you've got to ask yourself, how much are you trying to extract out of that situation? And for me, I can't expect my brother in our 30s for it to be the way we were when we were 10 and 12 and 13 and 14. So I'm either going to realize that the seasons changed, and so is he. He's evolved and developed. And I need to realize that I have to now approach him and deal with him in a way that is um with what I'm looking for, not acceptable, but a way that works within, it's efficient to how he is now. Which also means that because I've adapted to that, I haven't mastered it by any stretch or means, but I'm so much better than where I was because when we don't talk over negative situations, it's not three months or two months, okay, it's two weeks or a week, and then okay, cool, let me sort that out and da da da da. And so, yeah, I think it's a lot to do with how selfless you're willing to be in that moment to lay down what your preconceived ideas or what your standards and your boundaries and borders are to be like, okay, cool, I'm gonna have open borders just for this minute, so that we've got freedom of access emotionally and spiritually, and then you can kind of resolve situations.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Okay. Does that make sense? Yes, thank you very much indeed. Third one, third one, yeah. When a son does not have a meaningful relationship with his father, how can he then expect to be a father to his children?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

It's difficult. Let me tell you why it's difficult because every building needs a cornerstone. It's part of the reason why I started this podcast when I was working at that school, dad. Um there was another teacher there actually who was amazing. His name was Adam Sturdy, and I begged Ryan. I was like, you need to promote Sturdy. You need to promote Sturdy, and I think there may be a certain element where they looked at Mr. Sturdy and thought, well, this is a another um Afro-Caribbean teacher, and maybe there's kind of some um secret Nubian alliance going on that we don't know about, and it wasn't the case at all. It was as simple as this, dad. Adam Sturdy was, in my opinion, the only other male teacher there that taught with the heart of a father. Right. And yes, these children needed educating, but they needed to see what real love and care look like. And that's not always the Molly Cuddling ding. It's me telling you not to do that because my intention for your safety and your betterment is far more important than me ticking offstead boxes that's gonna allow me to get more funding to entertain you and not educate you. So the first thing I would say is very impacting because, like I said, every building needs a cornerstone in order to for it to be built in the way that we'll see it last. Um, yet at the same time, you can have the absence of a father, or you could you're you can have the absence of your father, but yet find the model of a dad in another person. Yeah, that's a very, very good come on now. Absolutely. Um, that is good. And for me, before you move on to your next question, because I can see you just ready to this is why I said I wanted to do this podcast. It was my gift to the world. Yes, I realised that fathers are becoming extinct, the the basis of their importance is undermined. Right. Um if we had more strong, balanced, um, self-informed men that I don't believe the world would be in and on the level of disarray that it is.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Yep. I mean, I think you put some very valid um point in there, which is one of them is because there are a lot of young men who has been brought up without the presence of a of a of a father. And as you said, the answer clearly, if you don't have one physically around you, then find a right model and work with that, and that will help to um to cultivate you for the responsibility. Smooth up your fallacy. Okay, well done, well done.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

He's getting well, he's he's he's it might just feel like an examination and not a conversation. I'm saying they try and have an open conversation, and you only put these questions together to be like, I'm gonna try and fuck him.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

I think I think all your fix is in food gear now, you know what I mean? Is that crucial? I didn't come out there. Okay, number four coming up. How much do you think a mother influences the relationship between fathers and sons? Hugely, Dad.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Hugely. All children, especially sons, have an attachment to their mothers.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Sound like you were waiting for that one.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

No, no, okay. I'm just enjoying answering the questions, and I feel good that I'm in the right flow. Is that case?

SPEAKER_02 28:04

I'm curious.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Um hugely. And and and let me draw my own experience, okay? So, because of the nature of your job, you were called to travel and plant churches internationally regularly, and because of your rates of success, okay, and this is me taking your spiritual vocation and allowing people to see it within the terms of a natural occupation, okay? To basically for those that are like, what did he just say? My dad's spiritual call into ministry, right, allowed him or meant that he was asked to go and set up churches internationally. So I now want to take it out of the spiritual vocation so we can understand it in an occupational sense, like anybody's dad when your parents go into a job. So that means that in the job sense, you would spend extended times and periods away from home. Um, and we were very blessed because we had a large church community that would obviously gather around um our family. Um, and mum was obviously loved and respected, and she had peers, so women in ministry that were her age, she also had what we called mothers in the church that were much older. So she had different spaces to lean into, but primarily, um, for those couple of hours of service three, four times a week, though the rest of our time was spent at home with our mum. And you have got a woman who is clinically not five foot tall, raising three boys. So depending on what was going on in her environment, we would feel the emotional um, what's the word? Toing and froing, I guess, of just what life is for anybody, Dad. Because mum also had a good job. Um, so she she had her own commitments and stuff that she needed to do, and then there's coming home and and and looking after your boys, and then there's still her commitments, obviously, with church. Now, obviously, there are other people in other positions in the church, so she's not having to do everything, but in terms of our growing up and seeing her, we spent a lot of time with our mum. Um, and it is impactful because I don't know too many sons that don't love their mothers, right? Um, and then so you will learn a lot of your cues from how they are, right? And I even look at my brothers and and myself, and there are little things that we do now. Um, for example, when we're all going to do something that's quite important, right? So it might be for Wallace, it could be a big presentation, or he's got to fly somewhere to go and do a meet and greet and meet some people and schmoofs them before he tries and sews up a big deal. Um, for Leon, it might be a massive event that he's about to do. For myself, I might have a show. There are little things that we do that sometimes, if not kept in check, can lead to what I would call um overly anxious feelings. Um, and when I looked at it, I was just like, I remember there was a point where I was like, where is this come from? Because we've never we've never been taught to be anxious. Like, where was this? And then I was just like, oh, this wasn't a spoken instruction, this was a learned model. And and so you look at things and you go, okay, the brain is constantly drawing this information and it's constantly taken in. So depending on what the relationship potentially is between mum and dad, that will then feed down to children. And depending on who they lean into, whether nature or just relationship or whatever else, that will either become a point of contention, right, or it'll become what I call a binding tie. And this is sometimes where you see the separation of like that one kind of stays with their mum, and that one kind of goes with their dad, and that one's just off doing its own thing. Does that make sense? So I do think that there is a massive link, dad, between um the time period that children spend with either parent, but especially their mothers, and how that then translates. Because if their mum sees their dad in a certain way, invariably that will influence how their child perceives that parent unless that child has a completely separate relationship. Does that make sense? Which means that even though they'll hear and listen, it won't fundamentally impact or change the room. Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

That's good. Uh the next question. And the next question. Right. What suggestion would you give to a son regarding his father and to a father regarding his son in creating or improving their relationship?

SPEAKER_00 33:30

Level the ground. Level the ground.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

So I didn't hear you.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Level the ground.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Okay. Right. Level the ground. Explain.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Not the ground, the ground.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Okay, explain.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Okay, do me a favor, we're gonna do an exercise, right? I want you to turn in and sit like I'm sitting. And then I want you to watch what I'm gonna do with my feet. Right, I should do it as well. Flat? What? The ground.

unknown 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Bumpy? Flat. Smooth?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yes, if I take your foot over. If I take my feet in another in another direction.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Terrain? Is it terrainy?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

No. Level. Level. Which means it's solid. Right. Also means So the one that is the bump is not solid. No.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Okay. Because you hit the bump with the right amount of force and you'll crack the ground. Right. When you level the ground, you take away everything that was. And it means that when I stand and you stand, firstly we're both standing on solid ground.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

We're both standing on the same ground. And I get to speak to you eye to eye.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Respectfully. Right. Right? Now, my humility to you as a father means that though I can speak to you eye to eye because you're that's how you're you're presenting to me. It makes me feel more humble. Right. Which then means that I'm more ready to hear. Dad, we we have we have lost the art of sincere communication. I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

It's such a simplistic key.

unknown 35:32

Right?

SPEAKER_00 35:33

And one of the faith, one of one of the scriptures I love to hear you um quote in church, it's so simple. But it dad, it's so deep. Faith cometh by hearing. Yeah. So if you're gonna hear, you can't be talking. And if you're gonna hear, your heart has to be open. Right. And why does why can I get faith from the word of God? Because what God does is he leaves his position as CEO of the universe and he comes to me as a father, dad. A father. Right. With a blow of his nostril, could end everything. Everything, dad. The baddest man you know would tremble at the thought of him coming, not him being there, him coming. And he will simplify himself, dad. Right, right. So that I can touch him in real time. What model does any father truly need? And as a son, what gift can I ask for that's greater than that?

SPEAKER_02 36:43

He's getting very excited, you know. Oh, what's wrong with you? I think you think it's on the morning, you know. No, that's that's very good. I think it's a cakey spirit.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Don't worry, but that's what I think.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

I think yes, it is a good illustration.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

And and and that's how you improve.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

You said something at the initial one of the initial questions, which I thought was really um profound. And um and I think in this particular question, it really sort of also leaned into it, where um that that leveling process that you talk about, where I think a lot of sons, because of the competitiveness, I think you'd make mention of that, that both see to you got somebody who's young, strong, fit, handsome, whatever it may be the case, and then you've got someone who perhaps still to a certain degree middle-age, and all the rest that goes with it, and but has the wisdom of life, and therefore um is how does those competition uh fit into this kind of relationship and who regulates it?

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Um I would say that it's generally regulated from the father, um, and the reason why I say it's generally regulated from the father because that competitive edge either becomes toxic or it remains positive based on based on the emotional intention that is put in from a father. Let me get let me let me make that make sense. A few podcasts ago, we spoke about when I did the song for Christmas and you wasn't able to come. There was no part of me that thought that you'd maliciously done that. Does that make sense? So there's no part of like, this is my greatest moment, and because it's not his greatest moment, he's decided to not be here. And there was none of that. Which meant that my heart, even though your physical presence not being there was was hard to take, and that heart, the thing that soothed that wound was that you'd prepared me for that already. So there was no part of me where I was like, he he he built me and put me on this pedal stool. So that the minute that I was gonna put my arms to the world, he was gonna cut it down, and they were just gonna watch me fall. There was none of that, which is why I could come to and I could just say, no, no, I wanted to, I wanted you to cross that finish line with me. Does that make sense, Dad? Yeah, so the intention of that moment meant that in something that was very painful to me, I sat there and went, but he sat there with me when I was writing that song. He he came in from a full day's work and went late to Bible study to help me finish that mid-late. So then the negative commentary that pops into all of our heads that I was able to counteract it with truth. Yeah. The only thing that can kill negative commentary is the truth. And the truth was, how are you gonna blame him for not being here for the parade when he was in the training session? And then you sit there and you go, Okay, it's not that he doesn't care, he doesn't. This is about how I feel, and I'm either gonna feel okay enough and open enough to come to me and say, I just wanted you to be there.

unknown 40:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Does that make sense? That makes a lot of sense. And then for me to take it in a thing where you try to do X, Y, and Z. And I and this is deep. Dad, so the artist I work for, right? The very first tour I did in 2017, I remember when the manager's son was just finishing his degree and there was a disabled bathroom quite close to our dressing room. And at that time, they were all suspicious of me. Proper.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

They were like, who is this? You know me, Dad. I'm not a wheel and flower, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

I'm alright. I should have been here 10 years before, but okay, I'm here. So, but for whatever reason, I I struck up a good relationship with him. And I remember him sitting there and he was doing his dissertation at the time. And I took a little bit of time, I spoke to him. Um, and when we went to the tour this year, we did the same venue, and I messaged him because I wanted him to meet me by that toilet because I wanted to remind him. I was like, eight years ago. That's weird, that's weird. And he didn't come, but I saw him in the corridor. He's like, I'm so sorry I didn't get your message. What did you want to do? I go, eight years ago, this is where it started for you. He went from being the manager's son, finishing his degree in 2017, in 2025, being the point of managerial contact and authority, and I've that I watched his his first overseas tour, the mistakes he made, the greenness he had, I watched him develop, I watched moments where his father was happy with him, I watched moments where his father didn't look so happy with him, I watched him learn, I watched him make mistakes, but because the environment and the atmosphere, the environment which then fuels the atmosphere was set for him to succeed, even in moments where you could see there was friction, it never derailed the journey.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Of course, and and so it's those things of putting the right things in place, and also as sons to realize that it's not it's not a setup for us to always be subservient or to be less. It's what I call sometimes an over-preparation. And the only thing I will say, because I'm starting to cook a little bit, don't cook the meat too long, it might get a little bit rubbery. Okay. Does that make sense? So when you're trying to keep when you're trying to tenderize beef right now, if you don't let it stew for a little bit, it can be a little bit chewy. And so now I'm learning how to tender. Let it simmer a little while, put it on a low heat, let it boil. And I think that's where we've got to is that I trust you to take me through the process of. Tenderization, knowing that you're not gonna overcook me indeed or leave me there to buy. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Okay, one more question.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Wait a minute, do you want to say how good that answer was?

SPEAKER_02 44:09

I mean, uh, go on. Tell him, tell him, you know, say I mean, one more question so that you don't get overcooked. Doesn't mean you know okay. This is the final question. Um, what steps should a son take towards improving the relationship between fathers and sons?

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Take the time, set the intention, have a purpose.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Take the time. So, like a routine, same way I do it with the gym. Um a time per week where you sit and go, that's me and dad time. Beautiful. Set the intention. What do you want out of it? Because if you set the intention, that will then balance your emotion. Anytime I'm getting a little my spirit just says, Listen, I ain't got time for all of that. What are you trying to get out of this? And then it lets me know if I'm being emotional.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Right? And then and then it allows my spirit to go over it.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

I like that the first part of that answer. Set the time. Take the time, take the time, set the intention. That's beautiful. And then I think I think that's the end.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

I got a third one with me. How are you gonna cut me off?

SPEAKER_02 45:34

I mean, if you can laugh then I know you're on a roll, you don't know what's it?

SPEAKER_01 45:37

No, it's just there's just one more thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

It was just take the time, all right, set the intention, uh-huh, know the purpose. Oh, that's uh that's good. That's worth that's worth holding on. Thanks, everybody. I'm having to just leave now. That's red holding holding on for. Okay. That's beautifully said.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Thanks, Dad.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

So, how would you define the?

SPEAKER_01 45:58

I thought you said that was it. Yeah, I'm just clearing.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Oh, now you want to see the last the last bit.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

The purpose will be is you want the legacy of relationships in your family to mirror that of the best person.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

That is beautiful. Thank you all for listening. Over to the master himself.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Firstly, brilliant. Okay, you should interview more often. I'm being serious.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

I think you just love the the the role that you're no, but yes, of course. We can see it in your eyes. He's loving it, he's loving it too much. But dad, in my heart, I'm a teacher. Of course, yeah, no, no, it was wonderful. And I've learned from the master. It was wonderful, it was wonderful, wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

So um that I enjoyed that. I could see, we could see that. Yeah, I haven't got time for him today, guys. Thank you so much for joining us, me and my crazy dad. Um, we have just, yeah, we're we're we're loving it. Um, we have some wonderful things planned for you this year, and we're going to create some moments for you to come and sit with us in the room um and experience what it is that we're trying to build. Please, if you'd like to donate, um PayPal.me, Yo PopsPody should be just here. Um, we have our Patreon as well. Also um like, subscribe and share at Yo PopsPody, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Um, if you'd like to follow my dad's personal page at Bishop LA Williams, mine is at Sean Williams World. Um, and we will see you same time next week.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Steve Les.