Online Reputation Management for Small Business: Google Reviews, Fake Attacks & How to Fight Back (with Dan Klein)

A single bad review can cost you 60% of your potential customers 
— and 94% of consumers say they've avoided a business because of 
what they found online. In this episode, Corey sits down with Dan Klein of Joseph Studios to unpack what online reputation actually means, how to protect it before something goes wrong, and what to do when it does. Including the wild true story of 880 fake one-star reviews posted in four hours by a Facebook group of witches.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Your reputation starts before the sale — online reputation isn't just about reviews, it's about setting clear expectations at every touchpoint so customers know exactly what they're getting into
• Fake review attacks are real, and they're organized — Dan shares how a client was hit with 880 coordinated one-star reviews overnight and exactly how they got every single one removed
• AI is resurfacing your oldest bad reviews — answer engine optimization (AEO) is pulling low ratings from years ago to the top of your business summary, and most owners have no idea it's happening
• Your Glassdoor strategy could be secretly recruiting your own employees away, and the hidden risk of asking your team for reviews that most business owners have never considered
• Train your customers, not just your staff — the businesses with the strongest reputations don't just deliver great service, they teach clients how to be great clients from day one

LINKS & RESOURCES

Learn more about Dan Klein: https://www.josephstudios.net
Download your free Small Business Hiring Playbook: https://connect.keyhire.solutions/small-business-hiring-playbook
Connect with Corey Harlock on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreyharlock/
Learn more about KeyHire Solutions: https://www.keyhire.solutions
Subscribe on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-keyhire-small-business-podcast/id1643962763
Subscribe on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1FT9oqXSek3jMfiKrZPLQs

EPISODE CHAPTERS

0:00  – Introduction & the stats that define your online reputation
3:30  – What "online reputation" actually means for your business
17:00 – The witch attack: 880 fake one-star reviews posted in four hours
24:00 – How AI is surfacing your oldest bad reviews right now
37:00 – The Glassdoor warning every employer needs to hear
43:00 – 3 best practices to protect your reputation starting today

Built for small and medium-sized business owners, the KeyHire Podcast has earned a loyal audience of leaders who act on what they hear. We limit our sponsors intentionally with one voice, one message, and full impact, so your brand never gets lost in the noise. If you want direct access to the owners making the hiring decisions, this is your seat at the table.

Learn More at Keyhire.Solutions

Hiring the wrong person is one of the most expensive mistakes a business owner can make, and the KeyHire Hiring Playbook was designed to make sure it never happens to you. Packed with proven strategies trusted by SMB owners across the country, this free guide gives you a repeatable process for getting every hire right. Grab your free copy at keyhire.solutions/playbook and take the guesswork out of growing your team.

Transcript

Corey Harlock 0:00

A business with a 1 to 1.5 star rating reports 33% less revenue than average. And just three negative reviews are enough to drive away 60% of your customers. On the other side of that, 94% of consumers say they've avoided a business because of a bad review. And 92% won't even consider a business that has no reviews at all.

Daniel Klein 0:30

Welcome to the Key Hire Small Business Podcast, hosted by Corey Harlock, creator of Key Hire Solutions, where small business owners learn how to build stronger teams, simplify growth, and scale confidently. Got feedback or topic ideas? Send us a text. If you're listening on a handheld device, tap the link in the show notes to message the show. Subscribe or follow on your favorite platform. And follow Key Hire Solutions on social media for more insights and updates between episodes. To learn more about how KeyHire can help scale your business, visit KeyHire.solutions. Connect with Corey on LinkedIn through the link in the show notes. Mention you're a listener, and he'll accept your request. And now, on with the show. Here's your host, Corey Harlock.

Corey Harlock 1:17

All right, today we're going to talk about your online, uh protecting your online business uh reputation. But before we dive into that, a couple reminders. Uh, get ready. We have a round table coming up in two weeks, and we're going to be talking about uh how to fill your BD funnel, how to generate some business in this crazy time we're living in. We're still rounding out the uh the uh guests for that episode, but we have some pretty exciting people in mind. So hang tight, but in two weeks, we're gonna have our next round table coming up. All right, let's get into it. Uh today our guest is Dan Klein. He's the CEO and founder of the digital marketing for marketing firm, uh, either JOS or JOSS, I'm sure he'll uh correct me on that. Uh Daniel is uh has grown clients from nothing to seven figures. He loves sharing advice and best practices with anyone who asks, and we ask, so he's gonna come on and share some best practices with us. And in his spare time, he loves spending time with his family and hiking and uh apparently quite a photographer too. So uh Matt, let's bring on Dan. Dan, how do you pronounce the name of your company? Jose. Jose? Yeah, sure for Joseph Studios. Yeah. Yeah, I knew it was Joseph Studios, but it's all capitals and but there's no periods. I don't know. Jose. Okay, well, we're gonna put a link at the end so we'll clear up any confusion there. No worries. Um yeah, man. Um, so we're talking about online reputation today, and it's so funny. It's I don't know if this classifies as online reputation, but when I buy stuff on Amazon, I sort by uh reviews and I only buy stuff that has uh like better than 80% uh customer reviews, and I always go in and look at the bad ones to see what it is, that why it's bad. And if it's like it came broken or it wasn't in its original package and had a stain, I won't buy it. But if it's like it took too long to get here, they said it uh, you know, uh if it's stuff that doesn't apply to me, then I don't care. So um, does that classify as your online reputation?

Daniel Klein 3:21

Yeah, I think online reputation is like a general way of saying what's the expectation after purchase. So I'd I'd lumped all those together, yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of a carry-mouse game, even more so with uh all the fake reviews and um new labels and new UI and Amazon in particular. You gotta look out for it.

Corey Harlock 3:39

Yeah, well, let's, you know, we always like to start with definitions. So um, first of all, thanks for spending some time with us here today. I know um I was excited to have you. We met a little while back and came up with this topic, and every everyone's got an online presence presence and uh to one degree or another. Uh, and I thought it would be a really important for people to understand the value of their online reputation. We always like to start with definitions. So, what what does that mean? Uh, you gave us a real great, succinct answer to it, but break down online reputation for those of those people who might not understand it or understand how comprehensive it can be.

Daniel Klein 4:17

Sure. So the best way I could probably explain online reputation in a fun way is uh part of the sales funnel is gaining an understanding of what's gonna happen after uh you make that sale. You're gonna need to establish those expectations prev prior to the sale. Um, it's very unlikely that someone's gonna buy something from you and they just have absolutely no idea what happens next. And part of our job as salespeople and business owners and marketing folk is uh to help set those expectations for what the next step in the process is. How do I help you be successful? Where do you need to be? What do you need to have? What information do you need to already know? Um and all of that is part of online reputation. If you show up to someone's front door and you know I'm supposed to bring the dessert, and here's the dress code, and here's how long I should stay, you're much more likely to show up than I don't know what time we're supposed to be there, I don't know who else is gonna go, I don't know what I'm supposed to bring. And it's like, well, maybe we should just say we're sick. Um so it it's not necessarily a uh, you know, is this a good experience or a bad experience or what's gonna happen, but it's in general just setting expectations and baseline understanding of what's gonna happen. And that's online reputation. It's how well can you do that, how consistently can you do that, and how omnipresent can you be uh across the digital landscape as you try to set those expectations.

Corey Harlock 5:38

The your dinner party analogy was great because in the hiring process, we talk about, you know, when it comes to the candidates, you have to understand where they are and how stressful it is for them to show up for an interview. And if you just, you know, you get a resume and you call them. I always walk people through the exact same scenario. You call them, you're like, hey, I got your resume. This is great. Can you come in tomorrow and interview? And they go, Yeah, that's fine. Now let's see what happened on the other side. They're at work, you called them, they're like ducking into the corner to take your call. They say, I'll be there tomorrow. You know, what's the first thing they have to do to be able to be there tomorrow? They have to go lie to their boss and say, Oh, I forgot to have a doctor's appointment tomorrow. You put them in an uncomfortable situation by not giving them options or timelines. And then they show up to work the next day and they're dressed up. What's the joke in the office? Yeah. Go into a job interview. Yeah. And then so if they don't want to do that, they got a change in their car. That sucks. And then they get to your place, they don't know where to park, they don't know what door to go into. They, when they enter, they don't know who to ask for, and we don't understand how we've affected them. And so your your dinner party analogy like rang so true because how many times I'm guilty of it. It's maybe someone you don't quite know or you're not really familiar with who's going to be there, and you're kind of like, eh, do we need to go? I don't know. But if they had to said, hey, you know, here's all the details and answer those questions. I guess in sales they say a confused mind says no. Exactly.

Daniel Klein 7:14

It's only when they say no. Um, and I think we maybe don't train others as well as we should. And we expect them to show up having already been there and done that when that's not the case. And maybe we should focus a little bit more, maybe even the hiring process of uh training people to be great candidates and what to say and how to say and what to act, all that.

Corey Harlock 7:34

I would go the other way. It's training business owners how to be more uh understanding of what they're putting people through on the other side and for sure. But so online reputation. So obviously, some people sell online and that is their life, whether if you're going through an Etsy or you're an online seller. That's a big side hustle business, you know, doing your Canva whatever's and selling them online. Obviously, your online reputation is going to be really important. But you know, my business, your business is a marketing agency, but then you get even into brick and mortar business. It could be a manufacturing company that is supplying big oil and gas companies. Is their online reputation important?

Daniel Klein 8:24

Less so, but uh, so there's a lot of industries like oil and gas, like you mentioned, where there's very much what we'll call like a good old boy system. And uh it happens, right? It's who you know. My dad has a saying, uh, it's not what you know but who you know that gets you where you need to be, and it's not who you know but what you know that keeps you there, or something. Yeah, it's good.

Corey Harlock 8:46

And uh yeah, well, yeah, I'd agree.

Daniel Klein 8:49

Um it is true in oil and gas, it's a good old boy system. There's a lot of other industries where it's absolutely who you know that gets you in that room. Um, but then after that, reputation takes over. And very quickly, as soon as you open your mouth and start saying things or advising people or asking to go in different directions, uh, that's when the tonality of your voice really kicks in as a way to um transcribe the reputation that you've experienced or the experiences that you bring to the table to everyone else. Uh, body language and posture are really great ways to kind of do the same transcription from here's my past experiences and here's how confident I am in these uh these learnings, and here's what we should do. There's different ways to communicate more than confidence, but experience and the justification behind your thoughts, not just online, but at some way, shape, or form, reputation and relationship building and a common understanding of what's going to happen if we take your advice is going to be universal.

Corey Harlock 9:51

So to switch it up a little bit, is it true there are people out there that will mobilize people that may have never used your service if they have an axe to grind and just bombard your site with bad or bombard Google with bad reviews and things like that? Yeah, yeah. So that example that we were talking about previously. Um Yeah, that's right. I knew I heard it somewhere, right? That's when we first met. I'm like, where did I? Someone told me it was a really cool story.

Daniel Klein 10:20

Crazy people on the internet. Um, yeah, they're crazy people.

Corey Harlock 10:26

So maybe share that. If you can you share that story or can like whitewash it a bit so it's yeah, just so people are probably wondering, okay, what the hell are they talking about?

Daniel Klein 10:34

So uh a handful of years ago, in the middle of the pandemic, uh and you know, as things are, um, one of our clients who's a doctor had a patient. And I didn't know this at the time, but doctors, they're not really allowed to fire patients, and uh specifically um if if they're being treated for a condition. In this case, condition is pregnancy. Um they're they can't really fire them, they can refer them to someone else, they can send them a letter saying, hey, you're no longer a patient. There's a long legal process that you have to go through to to cover your backside. Uh just patient was not working out. Um and uh in the middle of this, you need to go somewhere else process. She decides that she's gonna go onto a Facebook group. She identifies as a witch, and she's gonna go into a Facebook group 10,000 witches and voodoo enthusiasts.

Corey Harlock 11:26

Um and she's how many people are Googling right now?

Daniel Klein 11:30

Face Facebook witch Facebook group? Listen, Facebook is a dumpster fire. Um but she goes in this Facebook group of 10,000 witches, and she promises them a money-making spell. It was like the five-finger palm money spell, something like that. But she promises them a money-making spell if they give our client a one-star Google review. And like 880 of them did within like a four-hour time span. And so we got the call, it's like this is happening. Lots of high emotions, as anyone would. I mean, this is this business has been in effect for maybe 18 months at this point. A lot of time, effort, money have gone into this business being successful, and a lot of honest, like hard work and heart have gone into all these patients, and it's all for naught at this point. No, no woman ever is going to go with a business who has 880 one-star Google reviews. Absolutely not. Um, so the long story short is our team stepped up uh and this is a client, we take care of all of our clients. This isn't like an add-on service. It's like, yeah, we got you, don't worry about it. Uh, we popped in there, we reported all of them to Google. We gained access to this closed Facebook group, we gained uh evidence of this quid pro quo, you know, give me this for that. Um we collected evidence and put it all in a Google folder. We shared that with Google, we shared that with the feds because this is illegal, and um with the uh FTC. And there was also some information about there possibly being some IRS uh infractions. And we reported that to IRS too, because why not? You know, in for a penny, in for a pound. Um so we submitted all this to Google, and probably within a day, all those reviews had been removed, and she was back to a 5-0 rating. And even better, when they created new accounts and they tried to create new one-star reviews, all those got wiped out too. Because we put we've got a flag established in Google that says any new bad reviews, they have to go through a manual process, or they're just outright not going to be a thing. So it, I mean, it saved the reputation of the company. She's still in business, she's doing great, she's bought a building. Um, very proud of her, honestly.

Corey Harlock 13:31

That's got to be a scary thing, though. Like even the stats I read off the top. 33% less business if you have a one to one and a half star rating. And uh six you drive away 60% of your potential customers, and 94% of consumers say they avoid a business with about with a bad online review.

Daniel Klein 13:52

Yeah. So there's two quick caveats to that that I would add for anyone listening. The first is um even worse than that, AI is being used as a lot of summary tools that call it AEO, answer engine optimization. It's also being used in a lot of list sites, and they try to get that algorithm to have a balanced approach. So you might have a bad one-star review from eight, nine years ago, but if that is the only bad mark on your company, AI is going to provide that balanced approach by bubbling that one-star, eight-year-old review up to the top. And so you might see in the future or now where your one-star review from a decade ago is now all of a sudden the bottom of the summary of your main company page. Just won't go away. Yeah, that's that's how it goes. But there are ways to mitigate that, highlighting the date. Uh, you're more likely to still get that business if your old reviews are from a handful of years ago, but all the current reviews from a handful of months ago or weeks ago are like knocking it out of the park. We had a great experience, everything worked out. Maybe it was a staffing issue, maybe it was an operational issue, but it looks like from the timeline perspective, that's fixed.

Corey Harlock 15:01

Yeah, and that's again, going back to my Amazon thing, the the bad reviews. I will look at the date. And if you go, oh, like there's a couple one-star reviews, but they're from five years ago, and there's a hundred four and a half, five-star reviews that are current. Maybe they got a bad batch. Yeah, they or they fixed whatever was was bringing them down. Even in the in the in what we do working with our business owners, they may have some bad reviews from a couple years ago, and that that'll come up. A candidate might say, Look, I searched them up and I noticed there were some bad reviews. And it's honesty is the best approach. Yep, you're right. That's true. Everything you read is it was true. However, they're really working hard to fix it. And here's what we've done. Here are the changes we made. And if you look at the more recent reviews, we're back on track. But you're right. We didn't have it all together five years ago, four years ago, but we're working hard to rectify that, and you haven't seen any bad reviews since, right? But I guess the online when you're when you're going through and looking for a vendor or a bit someone to do business with, you don't have the luxury of that one-to-one conversation. So how do you, I guess, how do you address then? I've got some black marks on my reviews, I've got some low reviews. Um, maybe we were doing great, we made a bad hire, that bad hire had a customer experience and upset that customer. And a recent bad report just came on. We just got a recent bad review. What are what are some of the avenues or options you have to to deal with those?

Daniel Klein 16:41

Yeah, so there's a probably three things that I would advise just at a higher level, maybe medium level. Uh the first is gonna be um contracts are important. So it might not be that you've done something wrong. It's that there's a difference in opinions between you and the customer, and when it's no longer convenient for the customer to think a certain way or do a certain thing, or when they want to go a different path. Uh contracts are a great way to establish baseline behavior, and that can help uh fix any upcoming reputation issues. So if you expect them to hit a certain mark for approvals in order for you to hit your completion date, it might be good to have that in the contract so that they know in day one that if they don't hit these uh these approval dates, the timeline's gonna slip. Or if they add scope to the project, the timeline is gonna slip. Stuff like that.

Corey Harlock 17:34

I think what I hear you saying is as the business owner, you want to make sure you you're outlining timelines in the contract. So then if people get upset, you can point back to it. Yeah. And so they don't get all upset and say, well, you told me this would be two weeks. Mind you, they've changed everything and made that very hard to nail down. Then they get upset, they go online and leave a bad review.

Daniel Klein 17:54

Reputation is establishing baseline behaviors and expectations. Yes. We can take that a step back in the in the client acquisition process and say, you need to look for what we call ICP, ideal consumer persona. Take all of your clients and rank them best or worst from a couple of factors. Typically, it's uh how much they love you, how much they pay you on time, uh, whether or not they're gonna be repeat business, whether they're not gonna be an evangelist and refer you to others, and then whatever else you feel like. And then grade them based on that and fire the bottom, maybe 5-10%, but then those top 5-10%, you need to establish what makes them the same. What did you say to them? How do they act? What do they need to have said to them in order to get to the next step? And then you need to have that message across all of your marketing. So you need to be saying the right thing to the right person in the right place so that the right person shows up and there's less of a difference in expectations from day one. So to give you examples, if you keep saying the word concierge support, if you keep saying white glove service, if you keep saying we are elite, and people show up and they expect you to answer all of their emails 24 hours a day within an hour of them sending an email, and you don't do that, that's gonna become a reputation issue because you were saying you were a concierge and now you're not acting concierge. Right. You should be not you should be attracting the person who's gonna be the best customer for you. Um yeah, so that'd be the second piece of advice. And then the third piece of advice about the bad hire, that's where training and SOPs come in, establishing where you need to be and what you need to have and what you need to say, and making those all standard so that they mirror what those contract uh items are, and then what they mirror when you were saying in your branding and marketing. And so if you have a very clear picture of we bring in this type of person in this business, here's what we say in the contract so that we're all clear on expectations. Here's how I train my staff on those expectations so that they're met. And it's a real clear picture. And that's that's really where reputation and brand come in and just lockstep.

Corey Harlock 19:52

Okay, amazing. So, what what are some so those were great points? So, what are some other things a business could do if if there's a bit of a checklist or something that someone could do primarily for their online reputation that they need to be doing on a on a daily basis? Or if we flip that over, because we always like to talk about mistakes people might be making just to call attention to them. What are some mistakes you've seen a business owner make or business owners make when it comes to being aware of and protecting their online reputation?

Daniel Klein 20:31

Um most notably and recently, I would say putting profits above the communities they serve. That sounds kind of crazy. We're in a capitalist world, but um if you look at it from the perspective of who we're trying to help and why we exist in this world and you know why why we wake up in the morning, sit down at a desk, and grind away, it's to help other people, it's to do something fun. Um and I can't help but reflect back like even 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the IT, the tech world was supposed to be this bastion of rebellion where the whole goal was to give people opportunity and access to information and to kind of help out and make things easier and more convenient. And for some reason, recently, it's all kind of metastatized into some sort of behemoth of cancer across our society. And oh my goodness. But I feel like there's going to be some hardcore reputation issues that already exist. Check Reddit if you haven't seen them, um, against tech companies uh based on their inability to rationalize their place in society. I mean, how how are you helping others? How are you legitimately helping another human being? That is why business exists. And when you forget that, at some point you're gonna have reputation issues. Some of them are just so big it doesn't matter. Are we willing as individuals to take on esoteric kind of just kind of th thought like problems? I mean, uh at what point are we gonna Put our shoes on and go outside.

Corey Harlock 22:02

Yeah, it's crazy, right? What other what other mistakes? And if we had to like maybe talk about in the realm of small business owners, you know, people that are kind of running a five to $25 million a year business. Maybe it's brick and mortar, maybe it's a service, uh, maybe it's an online shop for those business owners. What are some of the mistakes you'd see that those people make?

Daniel Klein 22:25

Good question. Um, so five, six years ago, there were a bunch of marketing gurus and they were all kind of humming the same song, fake it till you make it. At some level, you gotta right. I mean, which which marketing guru is in particular is this? Who? I think that was a Gary V thing. Um, but there was there was a lot of like fake it till you make it kind of deals, like you know, just get out there and hustle and just figure it out along the way. And you know, bootstrapping, that's that's kind of how it is. But um, I would emphasize that if you are gonna go the fake it till you make it route, which inevitably at some point you will have to get a commitment from a customer in order to justify the purchase to serve the customer, I get it.

Corey Harlock 23:04

Right.

Daniel Klein 23:05

But uh at some point you need to dig into your own pocket and cough up whatever difference there is. So if you promised something to someone at a certain cost, you better stink and deliver it, even if it means you put the rest of that project on your credit card. And uh I can tell you from experience in in the hiring setting, quality was always my number one concern starting my agencies. And I invested personally heavily in staff up front. So we hired the absolute best and brightest first, and then we went and found customers. And it's not we found someone who was willing to take the pay level that I was able to make. Uh, I think I was burning like eight or nine grand out of my pocket a month for like 18 months before we even saw the light at the end of the tunnel. But it meant we had super high quality from day one.

Corey Harlock 23:52

Yeah. Okay. Um and then uh the challenge. So the one thing I would add to that is if you're going to absorb that cost, you have to make it crystal clear to the client. Because there's nothing worse than doing that what you recommended and having them still feel disappointed and then still going out and giving you the bad review. Yeah, it's hard to find people who are appreciative these days. It's the double whammy, right? Um what what about you know not addressing a bad review online? Like if you truly did screw up and someone calls you out online, how do you deal with that?

Daniel Klein 24:36

So, two things. I would first not solicit reviews unless you know they're happy. And I would try and parse out the happy people from the not happy people privately. I would say something like, Hey, I could use a favor, you know, we love reviews, it's how we grow as a company. If you're willing to give us a five-star review, I can send you a link. If you think we deserve less than a five-star review, let me know how we screwed up or what we could do better, and I will make sure that that happens. Right? Right. And then come back and say, We love you so much. We would, you know, die on every hill for you. Like, cool, thanks. Um, here's the link. And that'll kind of split everyone out and it'll make sure that you can privately deal with issues ahead of them going public. Inevitably, if someone's gonna go psycho though, and you're gonna get something happening publicly. Um, I would reach out to them because you probably have their email and phone number, and I would try and settle things privately with them first and uh sort things out through all the contracting means that you already have established through your contracts, mediation, whatever else. And then if all else fails or the timelines to rebuttal their bad review are about to lapse, then either through your um legal support, come up with a uh statement that you can publicly make that you know acknowledges the concern and says that you're focused on making this better over time or fixing this for everyone, or this isn't gonna be an issue for others, and then send that out publicly.

Corey Harlock 25:55

So as a small business owner, do you recommend going back and like saying, you know, sometimes you see people and they're like, hey, sorry you were disappointed. Uh you know, we always try to do better, and you're always like, okay, that's great, but there the person to get that upset. Like, I've I've had bad service port, and I'm like, I'm gonna give these guys a bad review. And I've never left a bad review in my life. Because by the time I get to like having to go online and go through the process, I'm just not that angry about it, right? I don't have enough juice to get there and do it. But some people do. And you need to, I guess what I hear you say is don't just like knee-jerk go on there and respond to them, like think it out, try to figure it out privately. And if you do need to because it looks good to have a review or a response from the owner on there, either ignore I guess you don't want to go on there and say, hey, look at we signed an agreement, you kept changing everything, it's not our fault. That probably doesn't help.

Daniel Klein 27:00

Best case scenario, they delete the bad review. Um, or turn it into a good review or you know, medium-sized review or something. Best case they delete it. Um second best case is uh you're able to mark it as spam or fraudulent or uh through some administrative means get it removed or taken down or subdued. Um it also depends on the industry you're in. So if you're in like e-commerce, you know, replying to someone about address that doesn't fit properly or some stitching that came undone, totally fine. Still try and handle that privately and still get that review marked off as part of that uh exchange. Um but on the other spectrum, the other end of the spectrum, you have doctors who can't even acknowledge that you are a patient. And that in and itself is problematic. So I would recommend handling that privately as just a uh you know the standard, because uh with uh just uh I guess medical records and um all these privacy laws that are in place, you're not allowed to say, hey, you were actually a patient, I actually treated the case.

Corey Harlock 27:59

I never thought of that. So that person can come at you and and by definition, say I was a patient of yours, but then that doctor can't come out and confirm that.

Daniel Klein 28:10

Yeah, I had a bad knee surgery and said, Oh, I'm sorry for your bad knee surgery. It's like you just give away my uh medical records. Yeah, you kind of did.

Corey Harlock 28:18

Yeah, that's I never I I never thought of that. Okay, very interesting. What about what's your background or knowledge in you know uh Glassdoor and things where people can rate employers?

Daniel Klein 28:30

Yeah, um I don't recommend Glassdoor uh okay, so it's a double-edged sword. It's for for all the business owners listening, that's a double-edged sword in a couple of ways, some surreptitious. If you ask all of your employees to give you Glassdoor reviews, because you want some good Glassdoor reviews to help with hiring, know that you also need to tell your IT person or you need to go into your email address and you need to blacklist uh Glassdoor's domain from sending you emails, because I guarantee they will send every single one of your employees emails with every single open job opportunity that matches their job description, henceforth. And so you are opening up a window. I didn't think of that. Okay. So if you want all of your employees to suddenly start finding out that others are hiring in your area for better pay or conditions or whatever, tell them to give you a glass door review, and Glassdoor will be glad to send them that email. Um I never I never thought of that.

Corey Harlock 29:25

I don't use glass door, I'm not a glassdoor user, but uh that yeah, that's that's nasty. That's interesting.

Daniel Klein 29:32

So it's helpful, but it's not the full.

Corey Harlock 29:36

Especially if you're gonna replace someone and you post their job, and then they send it to that person saying, hey, there's a new job and it's your job.

Daniel Klein 29:43

Yeah, they also get that too. Yeah, you're right. So if you post a new job, they will get a notification.

Corey Harlock 29:49

So what about the person who left? Maybe you terminated them and they're out to get a little uh revenge on you, and they leave you a horrible review because I've read them, obviously. Uh how do you deal with that?

Daniel Klein 30:03

I think it's more of trends. I agree with you. They suck. And it's it's really bad to put your heart and soul into a company, and then you have someone who is stealing from the company or a complete bozo uh give you a bad review and just like trash the whole company. Yeah. Or legitimately they had an issue and they report the issue, and you're like, oh yeah, that whole situation sucked. I get it. That's that's not a good place to be. Um if you're able to find people to give you good reviews that are active and current in the company, do that so that you can subdue that bad review down a little bit. Uh, you can make your metrics a little bit better if you have some good reviews. Once they're done giving the reviews, blacklist Glassdoor's domains so they don't get all the resume update emails. Right um also know that anytime you interview people, they also are likely to give you a glass door review. And these are younger folks more often than not, and they feel very entitled. This is my opinion, they feel very entitled to give reviews whenever they want. And so it'll be like I interviewed, I interviewed twice and I never heard back, and one star. And you're like, yeah, this is so it I would consider more of trends. Um, and I would use those trends to kind of make a determination about where the company is in its growth cycle.

Corey Harlock 31:11

Right. It's tough though. I mean I know, I know you can get Glostro reviews removed as well. Um you need to get legal involved. You can't just call them and ask them to remove it. And I think one of their one of the criteria is if they if they name someone by name. So if they put, you know, Corey is a, you know, Corey's a jerk, then I could call and say, hey. But like calling someone out by name, I think might be a no-no on Glassdoor. I'm not sure, but um it's good advice to get the domain blocked out so your people don't start getting new job offers. Super interesting. All right. Well, let's go into some best practices then. If if I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, okay, I gotta manage my reputation a hundred different ways here online. What are some things as a small business owner I could do, three to five things I could do to start putting processes or protections in place for my reputation?

Daniel Klein 32:23

Okay, step one, and the number one thing, and never give up on this until you're ready to move on to the next adventure. Be passionate about what you do. Be wholeheartedly convicted that what you are doing is good for more than just yourself. And it's gonna legitimately help others and legitimately be a good service, especially in this economy, quite frankly, and not to get off on a tangent, but in this economy, your business needs to be a necessity. And if it is not a necessity, you're gonna really be on the struggle bus. Um be convicted that your business is a necessity and have logic and reason that justifies that conviction. Um because of this conviction, you're gonna do things that you wouldn't otherwise do. You're gonna care for your uh customers and clients in ways that you otherwise wouldn't. That's gonna help with your reputation. You're going to instill through your words and actions that same presence into all of your employees and helpers and staff and contractors. And that again is gonna help your reputation. And then at the end of the project, you're going to ask for reviews because you're confident in the work and you put your heart and soul into it, and you're you're prideful at the accomplishments that your team and you made. And that's gonna help again with the brand reputation. Um, so number one, I would say deeply care about what you do and who you help. Uh, the second thing I would say is be consistent as often as possible. Um there's a reason McDonald's number one and number two and number three are easy to understand and easy to order. It's because everyone knows what to do and what to put together in order to make that happen. Um, productize your services as much as possible and standardize your products as much as possible. Operations, customer support, the whole nine yards, make it a well-worn machine. Mike McAllowitz wrote some really great books. One of those is the Pumpkin Plan. The pumpkin plan says that you cut all other vines off your vine and you make that one pumpkin the biggest pumpkin possible. And in our business, you cut all the distractions out so that you can have the biggest, best product or service possible. Focus on what you're good at. Get rid of the distractions. Make sure all the teams are standardized. Make sure your customers, and this will be number three in the last one, make sure your customers understand what the standard is. Teach them, guide them to be great customers. Don't expect people to show up and be great customers day one. You gotta teach them. The Army doesn't send people out to war day one without any training. They go through a 10-week boot camp. You should really consider putting your customers through some sort of, I wouldn't call it boot camp, but some sort of training program so that they know how to ask for help, when to ask, who to ask, all these things. So train your customers, train your people, involve standards, focus on the one thing, be prideful and really convicted in what you do. And then that's very foundational to all brand, all reputation, and your setups for success.

Corey Harlock 35:07

Very cool. I like it. We had we did a podcast a couple weeks ago, a number of weeks ago now, on the uh human uh strategic human firewall about um security in in IT. And that's the approach was train the humans because some people trust and some people don't. And so I like this approach about like just do a really good job and care about it and make sure the expectation is set. Um and people will be happy if you deliver. And if you don't deliver, sort it out and figure it out. And if you have to take a hit, take the hit, right? It's uh it's it's sound advice. I like it. Plan A.

Daniel Klein 35:50

Let's screw up.

Corey Harlock 35:51

Yeah. One other question I had though is train your customer, because that's kind of one of those things. People are like, well, how the hell do I do that? But that can be in your sales process. You know, that could be having a little slideshow presentation that, and when you talk about, so here's here's what the next three weeks are gonna look like working together. You know, week one, we're gonna do this. Week two, you know, here's what I'm gonna do. Here's my expectation of you. Is that what you're talking about?

Daniel Klein 36:17

It's post-sale. Um, it's definitely a part of marketing, and it's definitely a part of branding. And your marketing agency, we do this for our clients, uh, should give you scripts and prompts and shot lists, whatever deliverables you need so that you know what to say in different circumstances. Um, we took this idea from uh anti-human trafficking operations where you might see something at an airport, but you just don't understand what you're looking at, and so you don't know what to report. And so if you train people to identify human trafficking, then they can report human trafficking. We're like, that's clever. What if we trained customers on when they should be evangelists of our clients so that they know when their friends are in trouble and they can advertise their our client services to their friends? You know, how do you train to be in an evangelist? How do you train people to be evangelists? Um, and so this manifests in different different uh industries in different ways. So let's use like landscape, like lawn care maintenance as an example. Um if you have your crews go out and cut the lawns and mow, great, perfect, they're doing a great job. If there's any anomalies, maybe train the foreman or the manager who's out there with the crew to ring the doorbell or add a flyer or communicate to the client some way, hey, it looks like you have crabgrass coming up. Would you like to treat it this next time? Or if this crabgrass is coming up because your neighbors have crabgrass too. Um, do you think you want to talk to your neighbor about their crabgrass issue? Um so it's not a sale, but it's helping them identify when to have a conversation with you, or you know, saying, hey, if you notice something in your lawn or you notice that ants are coming out or the tree is dying off or something like that. When you see us out in the yard, you are not interrupting us. I want you to come outside and talk to us about what your concerns are so that we can address it and come up with a plan together. That's training the customer that it's not a nuisance for you to go, hey, you-hoo. Um, and it's gonna be the same in virtually every other industry. If your clients are feeling a particular way, they're probably not gonna say anything. You're gonna have to train them to be uh to be comfortable with saying something. People don't like conflict in general. Um you might use email drips, like an email campaign, to teach people on what to say and when to say it, or when to voice concerns, or when's the next webinar about a feature. Um you can use social pose, you can use one-on-one time with a client, which I like the most. Um, but there's different ways to train clients, but I would definitely be post-sale.

Corey Harlock 38:35

Very cool. Great way to end it, man. This has been an interesting conversation. I've enjoyed it. So, Dan, if people are listening and they're thinking, I want to know more about Dan or Joe's, how can we get in touch with you?

Daniel Klein 38:48

Uh probably the website, uh Josephstudios.net. Josephstudios.net. That's a great resource. Um, and feel free to email me directly, Daniel.klein K-L-E-I-N at josephstudios.net.

Corey Harlock 39:01

You're throwing Matt for a loop right now. That's fine.

Daniel Klein 39:03

There you go.

Corey Harlock 39:03

Matt, you're beautiful. And we had your LinkedIn too, right? I think we had uh connect with you on LinkedIn as well. Yeah. Um feel free to connect with me, however.

Daniel Klein 39:11

I'm happy to help.

Corey Harlock 39:11

Yeah. And throw that email out one more time.

Daniel Klein 39:14

Daniel.clein K-L E I N at josephstudios.net. Just like the clothing line, Klein, but I don't have any of his money.

Corey Harlock 39:22

And well, there's Joseph A. Banks, too. So there you go.

Daniel Klein 39:26

Good clothing.

Corey Harlock 39:27

You have lots of clothing lines. You got them all. Look at that. I knew he would get it up. He's fast. Cool, man. Well, it's been great. I've enjoyed the conversation. Thanks so much. Likewise. Hope everyone has a great day. Such a cool conversation. It's funny. We were in Portugal uh a few weeks back, and the the the second stop on our tour, we were staying at a uh what they called a five-star hotel. But um it's it was clear to me very early on that they did not uh customer service was not their priority. Uh, my son plays hockey, and we stay in a lot of three and a half star hotels. Uh and this five-star hotel offered three and a half star service, and it was disappointing because they kept saying five-star hotel, five-star hotel, five-star hotel. And then ultimately you get disappointed by it because you expect that level of service, just as Dan outlined. And then I thought, man, this is one of the things. I'm like, I'm gonna give them a horrible review, but by the time I got back, I was too tired and it was, I wasn't mad about it anymore. But it it was one of those things. They had promised a level of service and then completely under-delivered, and um didn't really even seem to care that they were under-delivering. So um I think that's goes back to Dan's point. Like just be passionate and do a great job and educate your clients so you can eliminate uh the minimize the chances of them uh hitting you online and damaging your reputation. All right, that's all we have for today. Um, my name's Corey Harlock, I've been your host. And until next time, stop grinding, start growing.