On the ground at the Delaney Hall Detention Center in Newark, NJ

This week, Chenjerai reports from ground zero outside Delaney Hall, the detention facility in Newark, NJ where hundreds of ICE detainees have been on hunger strike due to the horrible, egregious conditions. You’ll hear an interview that Chenjerai recorded with Sally Pillay, an immigration activist with the Eyes on Ice Coalition who volunteers outside the detention center, helping to support the families visiting the facility.  

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Further reading & sources from this episode

Support our families Linktree

Letters from Detainees 

https://www.lahuelga.com/freedom

About Eyes on ICE NJ Coalition 

https://www.facebook.com/PaxNJ/posts/eyes-on-ice-is-a-broad-based-coalition-of-dozens-of-orgs-with-a-broad-network-of/948292381077652/

Mami Chelo Foundation  

https://mamichelo.org/what-we-do/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Bro Home Productions. What's up, y'all? Unruly subjects is outside. Yes, we are all the way outside. You know what I'm saying? The weather has warmed up, and man, it's this it's all going down. You know what I mean? We got uh Pride Weekend coming up, so you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? If you're a nigga that could be out there celebrating who you are, what you do, do that. You know what I mean? And uh yeah, we also want to give a lot of love to our Patreon supporters. Listen, we are a free and independent show, and there's two reasons why I want you to consider becoming a part of our Patreon community. Like if you're listening to this and you're not a part of the community, we rely on the way that people are supporting us there to help us keep making the show. And I'm getting more and more tips, things people want us to cover, and there's a lot of possibilities of really cool stuff we can do. And you can support us by not just, you know, joining, but even if you join at the free tier, you can get in there and let us know what you think about what's going on, right? You get more access to our team and just kind of a little bit more behind the scenes. So we really want you to be a part of that. And that's the other reason is that there's all kinds of stuff you're gonna get. You're gonna get stuff early. You know, we'll put some episodes. In fact, there's there's a thing I'm gonna try to put up there early this week, and you'll be the first to hear that. So lots of reasons to support. We want you to be a part of that community, and big thanks to those who are already supporting us. All right, this week we're gonna talk about what's going on with the protests at the ICE detention center in Newark, New Jersey, Delaney Hall. Uh, for those who haven't been paying attention, this is a massive ICE detention center in Newark, and like all detention centers, the conditions are egregious, so egregious that after all kinds of things, you know, people have died and all kinds of other horrors, the detainees have gone on a hunger strike. Hundreds of detainees are on a hunger strike there. Protesters have rallied and things have really escalated. Last week I was there twice with my um once with my wife and my daughter in Yola, just kind of, you know, trying to be supportive and figuring out what all is going on. And so I, you know, and I did a uh, you know, a couple of interesting interviews, but one in particular that I really want y'all to hear. So that's what we're gonna do this week on the show. But before we do that, I want to talk about some other exciting things that are coming up on unruly subjects, because you know, I'm out there trying to trying to, you know, get to the get to the real the real topics that are happening out there. So I was kind of scrolling the news and I saw that there's a new category being created by the the federal government and sort of it seems like the tech companies called anti-tech extremists. Have y'all seen this? Anti-tech extremists. As soon as I saw it, it reminded me of when the federal government created a category called black identity extremists. These labels that they then use to sort of unleash and authorize all these surveillance mechanisms and new ways to detain and incarcerate people and suppress resistance. And I was like, oh wow, so now they're doing it related to tech, right? Um, this really was meaningful because as you may know, we've covered, we've been covering like the sort of fight against data centers on the show. Last week's episode was a conversation with Saul Levin and Astra Taylor about the data center movement. And then we a couple episodes ago we did a show called How to Kill a Data Center. So we're very aware and have been in touch with some of the people who are leaders in this data center fight. And by the way, I you know, I think it was uh Astra who told said that there's a poll out there that is suggesting that like somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% of Americans are either skeptical about or uncomfortable with AI. So when you create a category that includes all those people and says they're dangerous and maybe they might be violent, it's like, wow, that's what is going on. So I got to talk to Daniel Bogaslaw, who's one of the reporters right on the cutting edge of this, and he broke it all down for us. So that's coming up soon. I hope we can put it on Patreon this week, but we'll definitely have something out soon on that. Um, another thing that is coming up is uh after my conversation with Astrid Taylor and Saul Levin, I learned that some celebrities, uh some folks who a lot of us I think like are being paid to have what I was described as deceptive conversations about AI. These are conversations where they look like they're you know doing critical thinking about AI and they're asking hard questions, but actually, in a way, they're steering people away from some of the real questions about labor, surveillance, and ecological harm and all these other things. So, yeah, I I don't want to say too much, but I'm telling you, uh you're gonna be some of you will be really surprised. And uh we had a really good conversation, uh Astra and I kind of process what it really means to think critically about AI and what does it mean that people are being paid to sort of steer the conversation in certain directions. So that's all some stuff coming up. Again, plenty receipts with that. But this week we want to focus on Delaney Hall. Now, if you're anywhere near the sort of regular news or definitely if you're in this world of social media, there's a lot of sometimes like minute-to-minute coverage of what's happening outside this facility in New Jersey. All kinds of things. I mean, a spectacle of confrontations between police, between ICE and these and these protesters. People are out there risking themselves day after day. They're putting their bodies uh between ICE, like the geo group, because this is a privately run facility. Police, you know, and the detainees, people being held inside, and they're just making sure that this can't be ignored. And that's really important because one of the basic functions of these detention centers is to hide people, right? It's when you go to the place, it's often, you know, it's like in this kind of industrial area in Newark, it's not an easy place to get to. And they're really out of sight. And unfortunately, when they're out of sight, they're out of mind, even though what's unfolding in these uh detention centers is absolutely a crisis. And so what these protesters, families, organizers, lawyers uh and supporters are doing is to break through that invisibility and forcing uh a place like Delaney Hall into public view. So over the past uh two weeks, and especially the last week, the situation is escalated sharply. Governor Mikey Sherrelson and the New Jersey state police and she was saying that you know state law enforcement would take over policing in order to lower the tension, and you know, uh the assumption was that uh uh somehow the state police would be better than ICE. But basically, like I don't see any difference between the violence that these state police have unleashed on these protesters and what ICE does. I mean, they uh they set a curfew and they set up like a First Amendment zone. So instead of allowing the protesters and also the the um the people who are supporting families and uh some you know distributing different kinds of mutual aid, like all that was moved from in front of the facility to some First Amendment zone. And that was done, I think, with a lot of aggression and violence. And then, you know, at some point the state police have tear gassed people, they arrested protesters, and you know, they're enforcing this curfew now. And you know, of course, the governor and different people are making all these claims about violence and disorder. There's accusations coming from law enforcement. And I'm not gonna pretend that I have all the details of every single claim. But even uh Governor Sherrill has acknowledged that the vast majority of the protesters are peaceful, and that's what every time I've seen it there, it's it's been uh people who are there, but they're peaceful. But peaceful doesn't mean that they're not asserting their right to free speech and their rights to protest. And sometimes people get that twisted. And you know, because peaceful doesn't always mean compliant. The larger fact is this this facility should not exist. People inside facing hunger, serious medical neglect. You'll hear about this from Sally Pillet, who we're gonna talk to in this interview. They're facing retaliation from the staff. Of course, they're facing separation from family and this really convoluted legal process that is probably uh, you know, violating laws, but definitely violating anything ethical or humane. And New York mayor Raz Baraka has gotten involved in this, and quite frankly, he's been involved in challenging this facility for a long time. And he's basically threatening more legal action if if people aren't allowed to inspect Delaney Hall because they haven't even let the governor in, or at least so she claims. And Baraka has argued that Geo Group is a private company operating a private facility with private workers, but it still has to be subject to state and municipal law. So we'll see what happens now that uh Ros Baraka's involved. But the center of this story isn't the politicians, it's really the people inside, the folks who are currently on hunger strike and enduring these conditions, and their families, and the grassroots organizers who have been building this and working with them before the cameras arrived, and they'll be there when the cameras are gone. And so that's why I want to rewind a little bit. Last week, when I went out to uh Delaney Hall with my wife and my daughter, my wife actually introduced me to an organizer named Sally Pillet, who's part of something called the Eyes on Ice Coalition in New Jersey. And they've been doing support work around Delaney Hall for over a year. And this conversation I had with Sally really brings some of that work into focus. Um, and it kind of surprised me, right, in a way, because she really helped me see these different parts of the work a little bit more clearly and how sometimes they're a little bit intentional, right? Because the protesting that we're seeing is one part of the struggle, a courageous part of the struggle, and that's getting a lot of coverage, but there's also the work of visiting people, keeping track of folks in their cases, supporting families, connecting folks to legal resources, and also amplifying the voices of the people inside. And one way that's happening is through letters. And Sally's gonna talk about some of these letters coming from the inside. There was one of these letters that we actually read on the show. It's on our Patreon right now. It's from Leonardo Vijalba. And he was detained at Delaney Hall and has since been transferred. And there are more letters coming out as well. And we're gonna keep trying to share those because the voices of these detainees have to stay at the center of this story, right? Um, their words tell us what's happening, what the facility is doing to people, what they're experiencing, what they're demanding, and why this call actually has to be for freedom, right? Not just like improved conditions uh in detention. And there's one other thing I really want to say that came out, it's a really interesting tension that we're gonna have to hold, which is that, you know, if you're thinking about going out there and, you know, um, again, people are doing courageous work out there, it is important to kind of connect to some folks who have been there, maybe connect to some of the folks who are doing the other, you know, sort of like less spectacular part of the work, and just understand and hear that perspective of how, you know, what that what that work means and what that means for what how the tactics we need to use. Look, these police are gonna use force, so I encourage everybody to do what you have to do to protect yourself. But again, the reason so many of us are talking about Delaney Hall right now is because people refuse to look away and they they're out there putting it on the line. So that refusal is part of the work, and you know, it's not always neat, you know. And sometimes it means standing outside a detention center, protesting in concert while people on the inside are banging on windows, and other times it means helping a family member figure out where their loved one was moved. And so, with that, I want to let y'all hear my conversation with Sally Pele.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

So we are absolutely anyway at what happened with the ICE agents, more than 40 ice agents, stormed into units 2A2B, locked them in, closed up the vents, pepper sprayed the entire unit, uh, using batons, we're pushing them around, hitting them. Somebody had a broken nose, blood was everywhere in this unit. And this happened literally around one somebody. Who's gonna hold them accountable for the brutality inside?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And do you feel like the some of the protests that are happening out here? Do you feel like there's a way that they've maybe lost a little bit of focus?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

Absolutely. Uh, the media that's showing up here, the folks who are showing up here, what is the end game? What is the goal, right? If they are stopping the vans to leave, to be transported out, that's still not happening because people are still being transported out. Not in mass movements, but they are still moving people around. Number one. Number two, people are still being brutalized inside, there's still bad conditions inside. So, what are we doing to stop all of that? We need to free focus and recenter those that are putting their bodies on the line, the courageous men and women who are suffering inside, are being brutalized, and they are scared and they're intimidated and they're retaliated against. So the families who are showing up, look around you. All these families showing up for their loved ones because they're scared. They don't know if they're gonna see them again, they don't know what's gonna happen. As Gabriela said, her child suns two tomorrow. She has an autistic child. She doesn't know. She doesn't know. And so I'd say to the people outside, they were doing all of this peacefully inside, they're getting attacked inside because it's incited to the protest outside, which has now morphed into something way bigger without a focus of trying to turn this into a peaceful, peaceful protest.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Do you think though that like although there's escalations outside, I re I see I hear what you're saying, that they've incited more violence against the detainees. Do you think it's good that it's brought more national attention to this situation?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

It is absolutely good that there is so much more attention on the Lady Hall. For the year, over the year that we've been working on the ground, we've been standing in solidarity with the families who have been showing up here. It's one of the largest facilities on the East Coast, right? And number two, this facility is contracted out to GEO, one of the largest for-profit prison entities who's making money out of immigration. Um, they have a 15-year contract for $1 billion, taxpayers' money that is being put to use here in this facility. But it's a facility that doesn't have parking for families coming to visit. It's a facility that does not have an indoor waiting area for families to visit. We have been waiting in the storms, in the rains, in the cold, brutal winter outside, and Geo and uh ICE has not even recognized that.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Right. I think this is important because for people who just started to tune in when the hunger strike started on Friday, they may not understand that this tent or you know, people have been here supporting these families, like you said, for over a year. Is that right? Don't let me stop you from what you gotta do. Are you good?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

It's been for it's over a year we've been here. Uh, and uh we showed up here in support and solidarity because we saw how families were being treated. But through that, we've refocused into the folks that have been detained. And so we were able to have a direct link to them. They call us all the time. We are able to get a lot of information as to the conditional issues in the facility, and we are able to get the legislators to start going in. Yes, this has really heightened the situation in terms of the international and national look at this facility, and probably most likely the international community that will reprimand what is the United States doing, you know, to immigrants, locking them up, languishing in detention in horrible conditions. So, yes, you know, we welcome that attention, but we don't incite the violence that is being done outside because right now the families are suffering.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Right, right. There's there's people here in this tent with us who had family members.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

As you can see, there's mommies with kids here.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Right, and but yet and their family some of their families were assaulted. You were telling me about a one um detainee who has a medical situation that hasn't been addressed.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yes, we have somebody who has been detained since December of last year. He is a wheelchair, he's on a wheelchair. Um, and in March, when I visited the facility, I did not even know he was there, and I saw him in a wheelchair in the visitation, and I was appalled. I got right onto it and I said, No, this is like we need to figure out how we're gonna advocate. And since that day in March, I got the press involved and I got the legislature to try to visit him so we can push the guy to get his release. He was coerced into signing voluntary departure, and the judge basically coerced him and said, if you do not sign voluntary departure, I will deport you. So he was scared and he signed voluntary departure. We have since then appealed, worked, you know, to get his case appealed while we are advocating for him to be released. He's not a threat, he's not a flight risk. He's basically he's basically being put in isolation, medical isolation, beyond 100 days right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

He's in isolation and he is on a wheelchair, he was on a crutches, they removed the crutches and said you cannot have crutches and you cannot be in the in the regular housing unit because you can use the crutches as a weapon.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

There's a narrative out there that is um even I thought that Martin Soto was the leader of the hunger strike and his wife is supporting him, but that's not quite right. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 18:39

So, no, Gabriela Soto is one of the impacted family members. She has been visiting her husband here. We have been supporting her and her family since he has been detained. She led the movement as a rally, a solidarity rally for families, inspiring and empowering families to speak out and speak up against the violations that have been happening to their loved ones in this facility. You know, locked up in detention, um, no due processes, and they wanted their voices to be heard in solidarity to what's happening. And this isn't part of the 300 more than, I would say 288 to be exact. Men and women, brave men and women who signed onto the letter, you know, with their demands. And their demands were for the governor of the state of New Jersey, Mikey Cheryl, to show up at the facility, to have direct contact with them, to speak to them and like witness what's happening in the facility. They also called for the most vulnerable to be released. Pregnant women, you know, youth, children that are 18 years of age and older, who have special immigrant juvenile status. Um, they called for those who have medical issues, the most medically vulnerable, the elderly, for them to be released. And they've called for a legal review of their cases. Because a lot of the legal review that's happening is basically in violation of their due process. So there's no justice in the immigration justice system. Um, and finally, they called for those who have voluntary departure or being coerced for voluntary departure. For those who want to leave and have already signed, they are being kept here longer than they should. They are asking to leave immediately. So they've already given their passport to ICE. They've they've even some of the family members are willing to buy tickets and and basically they're still languishing in detention. And then for the others, they are basically being coerced. They're being coerced to actually uh sign to leave. So they don't want all of this, right? And so those are their demands, right? And we need to refocus what are the what are the so in light of that, the rally happened. And in real time, men and woman called us directly while the rally was happening, speaking to the media. They decided to engage in the hunger and the labor strife, which happened on Friday. Started Friday at 9 a.m., right? And then when they said to us in real time, this is what they do it, we decided as a coalition with the families that we need to do something. So we in solidarity, we will engage in a 24-hour solidarity vigil with those that are detained. And so Friday, that's what we did. We were here from 9 a.m. until the next morning. We were here from 9 a.m. 9 a.m. because we had our rally. Gotcha. Okay. So from that, it it it it morphed into the 24 hour vigil until the next morning. Okay? When that happened, it went into visitation hours. We had visitation all day on Saturday. I was outside with Gabriela Soto when she got a phone call from her husband saying, I suspect the paperwork side, it's order for release, it's order for release. Okay, when that happened, I was like skeptical. I was like, what are they releasing? Maybe, maybe what we're doing outside is we can have impact. Maybe it's gonna be released. I go in with her, she grabs my hand, we go inside. We good process for the visitation. And I was still very skeptical, but I couldn't tell her. She was on high alert. She was she she knew in a gut something did not sit right. As we were in and out, she was in high hyper vigority. Right. And I was trying to come, I was like, maybe she's not gonna, he's not gonna get seen. She's not gonna get seen because um visitation is about to start. If they already brought him out, they're gonna process it, right? Oh yes. Standing at the ramp, I'm looking, I'm trying to go, and then I see the two bands pull up, and I was like, this doesn't look good, right? And then as I'm like, between like I say 15-20 minutes after four, and I'm like, oh, this is like so I see some guys being handcuffed, shackled, and you take into one bed, and I was like, and she yells at me, Sally, that's Martin. That's Martin, that's Martin, that's Martin. And I'm like, I don't know, I can't tell because you know she starts running to the gate. I grab, I hit my knee, and I'm running after, I grab our IDs. We get to that on the ramp, the van's coming out, we see Tim because you can see through the window, and he's banging, he's banging. He was shackled, but he was banging. This is before the protesters can even out. We were trying to protect Gabby and my.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

This is on Sunday, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

This is Saturday.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Saturday. This is Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

So this is right before the last unit could go in for visitation. Families were waiting for the last unit, so visitation was canceled. Right then and then. So the families were very upset. Right, because now we drove, people started showing up and protection and kind of morphed into no visitation Sunday. A big rally ensued, protests ensued. Um, but Martin was not, he painted a target on his back because Gabby was very vocal in speaking out and speaking up, and you know, when the when the protesters arrived and started like, you know, media and social media, you know, took over. Um you know, that's the narrative that was spread.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Because now he's moved to Elizabeth and now he's facing charges, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Absolutely. He's in solitary confinement right now. Uh, we he's gonna be facing uh disciplinary charges. Uh we don't know when, how, what's that, what that looks like. In terms of any criminal charges, we are it's unclear. There isn't anything that is public that we know of that says who's being charged and what is he charged of. Um, we will probably wait now 24 to 48 hours to see if they bring about any charges, um, and then we'll try to figure out how we can work with an attorney to address what's happening to Martin and Jeff Lena.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

I'm gonna do, I really appreciate I'm gonna do everything in my power to get this story out because, for example, you know, it's interesting, like there's it's a subtle difference, but it's important. It's a woman arguing for all the families. Yes. But people have made it into a woman supporting a husband who's the leader. That's not that's different. And uh and also the impact that these protests are having. I think people are well-meaning. I think they want to make it something that you can't be ignored. But what you're saying is very important, and I really think it's important because you all have been here the whole time. You all been here before when the cameras weren't here. Eyes on ice, that's the coalition.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, it's a coal yeah, it's a cool country.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

And and and if I see those sort of accounts and websites for people, I know people are like, what can we do? What is the helpful thing to do right now?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um, I think you can start support the organizations in the coalition who are doing this work on the ground, working with families who are impacted. So we have organizations that I run, it's called Marmy Cello Foundation. Um, so I'm uh the director of a nonprofit called Marichello Foundation. Um, it's with an impacted person who was detained for 13 months, and we are doing similar work, you know, working with families and individuals across the country supporting folks in detention. And we have Action 21, we have Tax Christian, we have Cercha, who are part of our coalition that have been doing the work from the first day on the ground here. So folks can support financially through that all. Um, you know, we you know, right now visitation is on halt. We we we collect grocery cards, uh, we give that to the families. As the families who showed up right now, that's what we'll be doing. Even though there's no visitation, it's a visitation day. We are handing out toys to the kids, uh stuffed animals and toys. Um, we distribute diapers to the families, uh, grocery cards because that helps the supplement. As you know, as you know, the breadwinner is often the ones that are locked up and so leaves the families in crisis. So any financial contributions we get, we help to supplement for rental assistance and any other emergency assistance that we can help with. But plus the grocery cards help because they are able to buy groceries and put food on their table. Um, we collect Uber transport cards, but right now that's a little bit on hold. If there's anyone released, that usually helps us to transport, get them to transport it back home. Um, but we used to transport the families back and forth so they can visit their loved ones here as well. Um, you know, just spread the word, spread the spread actually the demands of those that are displayed. Yeah, you laid out the demands. I'm gonna lay those.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I already sent there was a letter, it's at this La La Welca and Leonardo I already shared that already on my. So those letters are good.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

It's it's good, it's exactly what's happening. One is from the women's unit only, very important. And and and the other one is a glimpse of each one. Um, we have folks who are from Afghanistan that signed them to the and that actually share their story with that letter. And so um Do you want?

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Do you I know there's people who are saying should they come? Because you know, you're seeing these calls on social media saying we need more people here.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

That's not our call. That's not our call. That's not our call. Eyes and Ice Coalition uh New Jersey is not. That's not our call. These are folks who are showing up now on the ground, who have not been doing the work at Delaney Hall. And I mean, you know, listen to each other, right? They want to come, they want to do the work by all means, right? Um, but it's not our call for folks to show up because this is inciting more violence potentially. I mean, I guess if folks want to show up just to be an observer and just want to see, engage, you know, they're welcome to do them.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

And to learn to learn and to meet more.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

They should come to the white tent, they should come, they should come tag a um um anyone with a reflector, yellow reflector, mask, eyes on ice, volunteer, talk to them, ask them questions, learn more about what really happened at Delaney Hall. Right. What's going on in Delaney Hall? Because that's important. It's important to really spread the right information and not the wrong information.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Right, and then when visitation opens up again, there's other ways to spread the colour.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Well, I would have to tell you today, um, and again, most people will not know this because you know we get the inside information. Today, visitation rules have just transformed and changed. No one is gonna be allowed to visit unless they are put on a visitation list. So, for example, loved ones have to be putting their name, their date of birth, and their addresses on a list.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Which is gonna be a real deterrent.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

It's gonna be a big problem because family members often show up without even knowing their loved one is here or without even knowing how to get in contact with them inside. So, how are they gonna put their names on the list?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Where is that list that you fill out?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Inside the jail.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

So they have to physically come and can be a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

The lumbian, the one, the friend, the friends that are detained have to put their loved ones or people on their list for visits. And we were already visiting, and now that's taken away.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

So all of this has really so those detainees would have to put even the supporters' names for them to come out.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

So it's a way absolutely, right? And if they don't, they're not gonna get visits. So this has really created a huddle, to be quite honest. Everything that we've done and like made like a little bit inwards, it's it's it's basically gone on the wayside. They know who we are, we're being here, so they recognize our faces. It's gonna be a challenge to get in.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

It's so it's so tricky because it's it's good that people are paying attention, but I really hear you about about the way that it also feels like there's a couple of steps that have been taken in the wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

And you know, I would say if this is a call, and and and again, our call has been freedom. Everyone should be released. Facility should be closed down, right? If we call for the facility to be closed down without the element of everyone being released, what then happens to everyone? And in the years of doing this work, they have transferred everyone, right? They've transferred, they continue to try, they continue to transfer people out of Jersey, right? You know, New Yorkers are detained here. People coming from the southwestern border are detained here. I have an 18-year-old, by the way. I would like to highlight his case. He's from Africa. 18-year-old who fled to spend two of his birthdays in detention. They transferred him from the southern border. And he spent two birthdays now. He just turned 20. We celebrated him wearing our shirts that said happy birthday, wrote everything in so we could get into wish him happy birthday. And right now, they've denied every avenue for us to get him released. And now we have to raise money to file a petition for review so it goes to a higher court because we just applied for a special immigrant juvenile status. Both of his parents both of his parents are deceased. He has nobody, and he's in the facility. So, I mean, it's important to highlight who's detained, their stories, so that we can actually induce impact so we can get them out. And the person that's in the wheelchair, number one priority for us to get him out. He should not be there, he should not be there for 100 days.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

But we can be on his name right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Oh, yes, I can. Emmanuel Rodriguez. And the media is covering some of that, and we want to highlight there is, I want, yes, we need to uplift him, we need to get him out, and that's that's that's my priority. That's our all of our priority, you know, with our coalition. Um and for each and every one, it's our cry is to have them all released.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Alright, y'all, so that was Sally Pillet from Eyes on Ice, New Jersey. And, you know, just listening back to that, there's a few things that really stay with me. First of all, the basic facts of what's unfolding are urgent, right? I mean, you know, these detainees have been retaliated against, pepper sprayed, beaten, isolated, denied medical care, and cut off from visitation basically because they're trying to call attention to the conditions inside, right? So that has to be recognized. The demand she lays out, you know, an account of the demands, and of course, we're gonna put those demands and the links to all that information out there. Second, she really kind of like sharpens something that could easily get lost, which is that the demand to shut it down can't simply be about moving people from one detention center to another. If Delaney Hall closes while people are transferred elsewhere, then these people might just go out of sight, right? The families could lose access and the retaliation could become harder to track. So for Sally, the demand has to be release them first and then shut it down. And you know, I think I agree with that. Third, this conversation is like a reminder that movements really do need different kinds of work, right? Of course, there's some people who confront the carceral machinery directly, right, creating disruption that forces the public to pay attention. But then there's people who build relationships with families, track cases, collect letters, you know, bring groceries, support visitation, and really stay present after the cameras leave. And those roles can come into tension, right? I mean, that's just the reality of it. And which and that tension is real and we have to figure out how to hold it. But the enemy here is not anybody doing any of that kind of work or trying to resist in whatever ways we can, right? The enemy is the ICE detention system, right? And the whole carceral apparatus and the violence being used against people inside the facility and out and outside. So it's important to keep our clear who the enemy is here. And yeah, I mean, I I just thought Sally was really laid it out so powerfully, and it's important to listen to people who are, you know, have strong connections to those inside and to keep the detainees' demands at the center and make sure the increased attention turns into that pressure for release. So we'll uh include some links that are relevant to this and um yeah, you know, just continue to try to lift those voices up. Thank y'all for listening. Unruly Subjects is produced in partnership with Rohome Productions. Boy, I'm proud of Rohome. Alex Lewis is Rohome's creative director, John Myers is Rohome's executive producer. Thanks to Danya Abdel Hamid and Alan Sal. Shout out to my wife Sodika and to my daughter Nyola. And big major thanks to Sally Pele with Eyes on Ice in New Jersey. Man, Sally was putting in work out there. She was talking to me, she was leaning on the baby wipes and dropping knowledge. So much respect for your commitment and your clarity. Sally also works with an organization called Mommy Chella, so you want to check that out. They do advocacy and education and all kinds of stuff. Um, speaking of guests, did you hear our episode from last week with Astrid Taylor and Saul Levin about the fight against data centers and why that fight is so important? Um, y'all definitely want to check that out. Uh, it's gonna make you smarter on the topic and it's also gonna give you some inspiration. Our theme music was composed by Axel Kakutier. Alex Tatusian made our tile art. Make sure you subscribe to Unruly Subjects wherever you get your podcast. Unruly Subjects is now on YouTube. So if that's an easier way for you to engage, go on over to the YouTube page and you know, give us a like, you know, copy the link, share it with somebody. You can also follow the show on Instagram at Unruly Subjects Pod. My personal Instagram is at gingeride. And we also want to know why you listen to Unruly Subjects. You know, we want to know what what you are interested in and a little bit about you and what is working for you, what you want to see more of. So we put together a brief survey. The link is in our show notes, and it'll take you less than a minute, and it'll really help us if you can fill that out. By the way, leave us a review too on Apple Podcasts, you know what I'm saying? Uh, you know, we want to see what you think there, so let us know, and we'll be back next week with more. Peace.