The PAX Hospitality Podcast
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For the hospitality industry, created by the team at PAX.
The PAX Hospitality Podcast
Marketing — Practical, Measurable, And Not Just Pretty
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In Episode 9 of The PAX Hospitality Podcast, Leon and Loren run a practical, no-nonsense primer on hospitality marketing — the kind that turns work into revenue rather than vanity metrics. Rather than lofty brand theory, the conversation breaks marketing into an operational framework: Pre (how you attract customers), During (the customer experience and frontline sales), and Post (retention, review management and re-engagement). The aim is simple: make marketing mechanical, measurable and owned by the whole business — not just an agency or the “marketing person.”
Loren and Leon walk the listeners through the four core areas that matter during the pre-customer stage — identity, Google Business/SEO, website & UX, and database/EDM strategy — and explain how small practical changes (correct Google categories, an obvious menu, auto-opt-in marketing) can produce immediate, tangible results. They also unpack the connective tissue between content, digital performance and ops: content is only valuable if it converts and the ops side (the team on the floor, booking flow, product delivery) is primed to deliver on the promise.
The episode finishes with concrete, easy wins (audit your Google listing, fix your menu UX, consolidate review feedback, check your reservation flow and tidy your social profiles) and a reminder that marketing in hospitality is iterative — a series of “one-percenters” that compound. Leon and Loren promise to dig deeper across future episodes; for now, this is a practical roadmap for owner-operators who need usable marketing, not more theory.
Topics Covered:
- Marketing as a system, not a vibe – Treating marketing as practical, mechanical work across three stages (Pre / During / Post) rather than just “content.”
- The boring basics that move the needle – Identity clarity, Google Business optimisation, clean menu/UX, and database capture aka the unsexy work that drives bookings.
- Content with commercial purpose – Creating channel-specific content that leads to measurable actions (bookings, clicks, sign-ups), not vanity metrics.
- Front-of-house as the marketing engine – Equipping floor teams with clear language, mission, and tools. Every interaction builds the brand and drives revenue.
- Feedback loops that improve product – Aggregating reviews, spotting recurring themes, closing the loop with ops, and turning complaints into upgrades.
PAX acknowledges the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging and to all First Nations People.
Setting The Goal: Practical Marketing
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Pax Hospitality podcast.
SPEAKER_05Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Keep going. Sorry, I nearly fucked up the title of the show just then.
SPEAKER_03Great stuff.
SPEAKER_00I'm here with the whole crew again. So what's up, guys? Hello. Hello. But today we're actually not gonna we're actually gonna hear mostly from Lauren today, and the and us three knuckleheads are gonna do our best to shut the hell up. Yeah, this is this is the last you'll hear from me. Store that in your brain. Today what we're what we're gonna cover is marketing. And obviously, that's quite the broad umbrella.
SPEAKER_04You betcha are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what we wanted to do is just do a bit of a marketing 101. And dude, let's be honest, this is probably gonna be about six fucking episodes. Yeah. There's just so much to go.
SPEAKER_04There's heaps to talk about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I think I think the best way to do it is to just we're doing this through that lens of like like everything we do, demystifying, you know, some of the misconceptions and and trying to just make it really practical. And the lens that we're gonna apply today is gonna be, you know, a business owner, you know, from the perspective of a business owner, how should I approach this stuff, right? You're the translator, you know. So I think it's gonna be really awesome to just spend some time getting into your model, yeah, understanding your approach. Um, already, you know, in this in the amount of time that we've worked together, it's just been unbelievable for me to be able to see things through such a um practical lens. You know, half the time I think when you're talking to I don't know, anyone in that marketing sphere, it's so like visionary and up here and esoteric, yeah. Yeah, and I think it's cool to be able to go, I know that's it's pretty mechanical. We just need to know what the parts are.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So okay, so I think that's kind of kind of the goal. Um, we don't know how long, like I said, this could be one episode or six. I think it's probably gonna be six. So I think let's just keep talking and go through things until Tim cuts us off because we're over time and then we'll go into part two later.
SPEAKER_04Sounds good. I think we're coming at this from um uh thinking about an owner-operator that may not have the resources within to do some of the more strategic marketing stuff. I think uh uh the application of some just really simple tips and tricks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's kind of what I'd love to get out of today's episode.
SPEAKER_00Okay, amazing. And and should also um just a quick little caveat is that we did a portion of your model about what is it, about a year ago, yeah. On the on the Principle of Hospitality podcast.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and I think we're so we'll we'll cover a bit of that stuff, but I think up to you, you play it by ear. And I think if there's like, hey, let's not rehash that, we can just send people back to that and just go and have a listen. You know, and we'll just do a like a higher level one on here.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, but let's just see where we go. So where do we kick off?
The Three-Stage Customer Journey
SPEAKER_04I think maybe we look at this uh the very broad umbrella of marketing and how I come at it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, gotcha.
SPEAKER_04And I think about it in in three components, like a circle flow of everything that happens before the customer is in the venue. So, what are you doing to attract them? Uh, while they're dining with you, all of the elements, all of the marketing touch points that happen when they're in the venue, and and that kind of crosses over into some of the product land. And then after, what are you doing to make sure that they come back and you're retaining them and you're you're fostering loyalty? So at every piece of that arc, there's uh lots of bits and pieces to uh optimize, basically.
SPEAKER_00I love this model because it is taking so many diverse components of marketing, some that people know, like everyone knows marketing involves content, for instance, but most people think that's all it is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you're taking this kind of great model and applying it to every single facet, yeah, and and you can almost like without knowing all the granular detail on on what each one consists of, I just know that hey, if I just think about it and I think about this whole department from you know pre, during and post, you know, that's it, right? And just and just put yourself in that customer experience from those three stages, and you're already gonna start to see some some you know great perspective. Um so I love I love that, right? It it makes it really neat.
SPEAKER_04And and the and the pre, the attracting is so much more than promotion. There's there's a lot of marketing architecture to to look at, yeah, and a lot of basic um areas of marketing that you can own and influence before you even start thinking about.
SPEAKER_00Was this a was this a learnt model for you, or did you come up with this?
SPEAKER_04Uh I don't want to claim I came up with it, but I didn't get given it.
SPEAKER_00Sure, yeah. Um it's a bit of a synthesis of all your experience and then packaged up in your own way.
SPEAKER_04And I think the crossover that I've had from the sales side of restaurants, the op side, and into marketing. Like I am not a brand strategist, I didn't do a marketing degree. It's it's kind of pretty niche and hyper-specific of how do we take um restaurants and and share what they're doing with the world and and kind of capture those customers.
SPEAKER_00So I think you you you're really unique in that sense where you know you were just at the cold face of m hospitality marketing so quick in your career.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It it's almost like, you know, for a lot of people that go through academia, you have to almost lose the first eight years of your career of just learning how to do the or not just to not get stuck in the theory.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00You know, you like and that's that's not just academia, that's probably anything, right? Like if you want to get if you want to become an expert in wine, you know, the first big portion of your journey is gonna be understanding all the theory and all those things that you want to go and argue with people about at dinner parties and stuff. It's like you have to learn how to get unstuck from that before you can build your own IP.
SPEAKER_04And I think the sweet spot for me is like translating marketing into commercial outcomes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there it is, yeah. And I think that's the biggest strength of what you'll talk about across these episodes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And taking the work of great brand teams and great agencies and going, all right, cool, let's make dollars out of that rather than just beautiful things.
SPEAKER_00This is how you plug it in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Love that. Okay, so do you start with which bit sequentially?
Sales And Customer Service As Marketing
SPEAKER_04I might jump into when I think marketing and just the broad umbrella, and we don't have to get too granular, but just so that it opens up people's perspective on it's not just promotion, is all things sales and customer service. So that's the people in your business driving revenue, or the or the or the things that are driving revenue. So bookings, reservation strategies, events, event sales strategies, and and business development. And then the admins side, like all the customer service, your guest services team, whatever you want to call them.
SPEAKER_00Can I ask you a quick question? When you say business development, what are we referring to specifically?
SPEAKER_04Uh okay, we've got um uh we've got a calendar of major exhibitions happening in at MCEC. How are we going to capture them and make sure that they are aware that we have these incredible private dining offers?
SPEAKER_00Okay, got it, got it. And and would you also put like promotional collabs in there? Like it's it's World Honey Day, so we're gonna do it. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um Melbourne International Film Festival, are we how are we gonna get in their food programme? Yeah. Food and wine festival, Melbourne, how are we gonna get in there in their program?
SPEAKER_00Love that. So what was that so funny you said?
SPEAKER_04World Honey Day.
SPEAKER_02Such a good reference. It's like what reference should I plug from my brain?
SPEAKER_00Wild is you can look at the stats on it, see how oversubscribed that shit is, and then tell me you don't want to do a collab with it.
SPEAKER_04So then sales and customer service, that's a massive part of a restaurant. Yeah. I see that sitting under um kind of a marketing remit. Yeah. Um, but on in on a smaller scale, like an ops manager or a restaurant manager might be handling some of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I was gonna that's the next thing I was gonna ask you is in depending on the scale of the organization, they might not have a marketing department or a marketing person. And these are all roles that should be kind of shared amongst you know the ops and and whatever administrative you know appointments you've got.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But most of the time I would say the barrier isn't the doing of the work, it's the awareness of the process and the work that is to be done.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Is that safe to say? Definitely. Uh like a good JD for a restaurant manager where there isn't that marketing resource, should have a component of some of this stuff in it.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_04Um, uh, then the next main thing which which most people resonate with is content and digital.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_04So that's all the work within your business that's about attracting the customer.
SPEAKER_00I mean, can can I also point out this almost? We need to do an episode on content and digital one day.
SPEAKER_04It's the one thing that people are really interested in in like, how the hell do I do this really well?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but also even I feel like the people that have figured out how to do it well in heavy quotes, they don't like define well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because what is well, right? Is it is a conventional. Yeah, if it's just a bunch of vanity metrics, yeah, and it's like, great, we've spent, you know, fifty thousand dollars on content production in the last two years and our followers went up by 40,000 followers, and our engagement per post goes up is up massively, but our revenue has not changed. Yeah, that's a problem.
SPEAKER_04Huge problem. And if you don't have the right forensic approach to looking at that from a marketing perspective, you'll never know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you'll never find the gaps.
SPEAKER_04You just get a lot of subjective opinions on that looks good or or doesn't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So sorry, continue on. So first up, we've got sales and customer service, which is awesome. Then you're going into content and digital.
SPEAKER_04Content and digital. So it's the I guess the management of all your owned channels, and owned channels is a is a pretty marketing-y term, but that's all the platforms or outlets that you have access to that you can own the messaging for.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_04So things like uh websites, EDMs, social media, media kits, event sales packs, like everything that you can produce that you have control over that.
SPEAKER_00Control over is the key term. Is the is the key term.
SPEAKER_04Owned channels. Yep. When you move into earned channels, that's any third parties talking about you. So great press or inclusions in listings or gotcha um podcast features. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Where do you put those people that do the advertorials?
SPEAKER_04Um hey, look, if they if they work, they can like It's World Honey Day. If it aligns with your brand and you actually rate the product that you're being forced to kind of, you know, the advertising, yeah, go for it.
SPEAKER_00No, but I'm asking, like, where is that that's technically not earned, it's owned, right? Because you're paying for it and you're controlling the narrative.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you owned. You kind of want um it's all organic earned media is the gold. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, and then content can kind of move into other things like copywriting, uh producing content for the reservations team, for the booking journey, making sure that all of the event language on the website is is like uh hitting keyword search terms in SEO.
SPEAKER_00It can get would you would you go as far as to say this extends into like sales scripts by for people, not just people that answer the phone, but like what about uh like people working on the floor every night? And what should I be talking about? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Content is the is the stuff you're saying and showing about your venue. So if you've got somebody that is owning that, it means it's consistent across the board.
Content, Digital, And Owned vs Earned
SPEAKER_00Well, I feel like it's an interesting one because you're you kicked this off, right, by saying, hey, it's the first stack that we look at is sales and customer service. And you refer to it as the people in your business that are driving revenue.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we don't talk about this enough or we don't say this enough, but every single person working on the floor, every single person that is talking to a customer is that. But we it's a kind of like a dirty word to call them salespeople. So we're like, no, that's that kind of you know, diminishes the craft of what I do. It's kind of like, yeah, cool, but uh you're in the best position than anyone in the marketing team to drive revenue. You're all doing marketing. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02I think the biggest thing there, and you're talking to, I'm sure, is the power of word of mouth. Yeah. Isn't constantly forgotten about and that word of mouth genuinely generally comes from an incredible experience. Yeah, incredible hospitality, which happens at the call phase on the floor.
SPEAKER_00Yep. So I I just I love that because I just think one of the things that I mean, you know, you you when when you get to it, you're gonna talk about like the the mission deck and the and that amazing document that you produce. To me, that is uh the piece that sets up the frontline staff work, you know, staff members to be able to actually you know convey and it it's to convey the the mission, but what you're actually doing is you're not just driving like driving revenue is the is the transaction, what's the outcome, but effectively what you're doing is you're building that brand equity.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think it's it's I've just never thought it's funny because I've never I don't think many people have thought about it as oh, that sort of induction documentation needs to come from marketing. You know, they it's just like oh that's the founder created that or the manager created that, but they're probably missing some big pieces that could join some big dots.
SPEAKER_04Huge, it's consistency of message, yeah. Um, I'll just talk about digital really quickly because content and digital kind of sit in the same space, and it might be one person that can do all of these things, or it might be a couple of separate roles, but digital is all uh all about optimization and and performance of the channels that you own. So website management, CRM, which is your database, um, EDMs, which are your newsletters, and how to make sure you're getting the most out of them, all the data and analytics like Google Analytics, um, tech and integrations. And it's taking that data and being able to feed it back to the ops team or the product team and go, here are some insights that you could apply in terms of making product adjustments or you know, this EDM had uh an insane click on the non-alcoholic cocktail that we were that we were talking about. Your beverage team should need should know about that, knowing that there's an appetite within the data within the database.
SPEAKER_00Just closing that loop. Yeah. Hey, where do you we how do you explain? Like, I think a lot of um business owners feel that when it comes to content, yeah, you know, I can just create one set of content and then blast it across TikTok and Instagram and EDMs, and like the the notion of reusing, you know, content for all the platforms generically is kind of a stupid thing to do, which I learned the hard way, managing my son's um skateboarding Instagram. Yeah, yeah. Which you let me know about. Yeah. Um but tell me why I can't do that.
SPEAKER_04Well, because you're talking to different people, yeah. So I don't even have a TikTok account, right? Right. Um, but a lot of people do, um, and the way that they interact with that content is far different to somebody opening an EDM, having a really big in-depth read through what you're selling.
SPEAKER_00Even just Instagram to TikTok are completely different conversations.
SPEAKER_04But when you think about the what am I promoting, absolutely should go. Let's hit all of our channels with this. We've got this great new lunch special. We need to talk about it through every channel that we can, but not just I'm making this video and I'm gonna hit send to all of these platforms in that form. You just have to think about who you're talking to.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um, okay, so that kind of that's a very quick snapshot of content and digital. The next is promotion, so PR. Yeah, um.
SPEAKER_00Which everyone knows about.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and everyone spends a lot of money on. Um, and I'll I might dig down into that a little bit later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh, and then there's the other stuff like the top line, the top end of marketing, which is strategy, um, creative direction, brand strategy, concept ideation, the crossover with product identity, um, building that marketing architecture, that is is kind of what I sit into the umbrella. So those four things. There's heaps more, but those four.
SPEAKER_00Those just zoom out on the journey for a second here. We're talking about three stages of the journey, which is pre-during and post. And that refers to the stages that every one of your customers experiences with you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, and how you should approach it. Yeah. So in the pre during and post, we're we're just talking about the pre-bit. And in the pre-bit, these are the four areas that pertain to that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. There's crossover, but there's definitely crossover, particularly on the digital side with the post, with feedback loops and um, yeah, managing all your review channels and analytics and what have you.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_04The retention. Sure, sure. Um, but yeah, mostly this is the how do we attract them? Yeah. How do we get it?
SPEAKER_00If I'm if I'm sitting there being like, cool, I want to, I want to be really smart about how we do the pre-bit in my organization. Yeah. They're the four spots.
SPEAKER_04This is there.
SPEAKER_00Love it. All right.
SPEAKER_04Um, and then the reality of hospitality today is most businesses don't have the the capability to have a full-time resource looking after all this stuff, let alone multiple that you need. So they start pinging out retainer, paying retainers here, or having a freelance there, and um and all those things are really valuable when you've got great direction or somebody able to direct them really well. Um, but they're only as good uh as the really like if you need to get your basics, your absolute 101 basics in order before you think about bringing in third parties who aren't in your business every day.
Audits, Identity, And Alignment
SPEAKER_00Right. I mean, it's so practical. Like if even if you used an example of like a chef in a kitchen. Yeah. Right? Like, say I own a restaurant and I need to bring a chef in to work that night.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they've never worked in the business before. Yeah. But it's a ring-in. Right. Like, how well is that gonna go? Yeah, right. Like if it unless obviously the determining factor is gonna be how well did I onboard them and train them and how well is everything set up so that when they go, okay, I've got to do these bits of prep, okay. Well, there's the recipe and there's the steps that I do. Like, if all that is nailed, then cool, you can contract that out and someone can come in and cover and they'll do a pretty good job. But if you haven't written down any of that shit, good luck, right? Like that's gonna be an interesting, interesting service that night.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you can just go around in circles and pay money to uh for people to produce content or put PR articles out there in the world, and then the conversion point of that is met with with friction because there's a whole bunch of just basic marketing shit that you haven't looked at. So I think we probably dial into some of those things today. And there is crossover with what we've chatted about before on that podcast, but this is stuff that yeah, if you don't have a marketing team and you're the owner and you're like, ugh, we've got some why are we quiet on a Thursday? It's like look at this stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_04Um so I guess when I come at uh when I come at a marketing audit, like if we if we have a PAX client, one of the first things I do is is get under the hood of well, what are their channels saying? What are the what are the basics? Um and this will circle back to a lot of the work we do in the identity and product parts of our pyramid. Sure. But the first thing is is what are you and what are you offering? If that isn't so clear, then go back down to the bottom of the pyramid and look at identity and look at concept refinement and start there. But if we're climbing all the way up to the top and we're ready to promote, uh, that needs to be really clear. And then I look at every single place that's possible for that to exist. So websites, booking journey, Google listings, social um media kits, and then well, what are the uh what's the public's perception of that? And do they align? And if there's a misalignment there, then we've got to go back down the pyramid.
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SPEAKER_00Can I go back a step?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00In so when you're looking at someone's identity, yeah, like what are you is it in is this an intuitive process for you, or have you got some key steps there that help you define or determine whether their statement is clear or not? Like, say say for instance, you know, I'm a I'm a wine company and my purpose is like, you know, to uh change the way you view wine so dramatically that you'll never drink wine again in the same way. Like what when when I say that statement, are you just like shut the fuck up? That's not clear enough, or do you go, no, no, I can work with that.
SPEAKER_04But I can yeah, I can probably work with that, and I think part of it maybe is a bit of intuition, but it's it it what needs to be clear in that statement is what are you offering?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04As a customer who doesn't who that's a nice, beautiful reason why you exist, but what are you selling?
SPEAKER_00Got it. So that's the missing piece of that particular statement. It's like, yeah, but uh you still haven't told me what the fuck you're actually doing. Yeah, certainly natural wine or low natural wine, I think, in this case. But also, like in what I mean, are you just selling it? Are you just selling me cases on a subscription? Are you just actually do you have a a like a retail outlet where you're doing pizzas as well? Like what's the story?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Like you've got to, you've got to make that pretty clear what what's on the box from the get-go.
SPEAKER_00It's got to be in embedded in the statement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Cool. Um, and there's a lot of work we can do to get you there if you're unable to articulate that. But I'm gonna come at this with the assumption that you've done that work.
SPEAKER_01Got it.
SPEAKER_04Um, you know what you are and what you're selling. We're a um a wine bar in the inner north offering shared plates inspired by European travels. It's like, okay, cool, I've got a vibe as a customer of what I'm gonna get there.
SPEAKER_00Is is it is it too harsh a criticism to maybe make an assumption that the the crazy statement I came up with before, which was it 30 seconds ago, I can't even remember it. So clearly not that impactful. Um, but like that's the sort of statement that might come from you know, spending money with a branding agency a bit too soon.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And not not to hate on branding agencies, but more often than not, you see this, right? Where it's like, okay, there's a it's a statement for external comms that sounds great, it's going to attract a lot of interest.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But your thing is so operational, yeah. So like, hey, how does the rubber hit the road?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That it's taking that first part and optimizing it with that second part to really sort of make the magic happen.
Google Business Optimisation That Converts
SPEAKER_04Well, and and where magic can happen with an investment with branding agencies is if you deliver them that and go, what we are and what we offer is this. Yes. Now make it gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00And but if you don't give them that first bit, they're just in orbit, right? They're in orbit. They're trying to figure it out for you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, or they'll charge you 50 grand to do a strategy piece on it, which is which, you know, like can sometimes deliver some really wicked stuff. But if you're punching, if you don't know what you are and you're and you're asking, you're about to pay someone loads of money to help you promote who you are, yeah. You've there's some missing pieces there. Yeah. Um, so once that identity is is really clear, I'll I'll I'll rip apart all of your channels, like your your website, is that front and center? And if it's not, recommendation will be make it more obvious. Does it like there's so many websites now that have gorgeous video movement on their homepage, which is sexy, but I don't know what you are. Uh, and unless you've got a really compelling SEO strategy behind that that can do all the tricks, you there's no words on your website.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04So nobody will be able to search for you.
SPEAKER_00This this again comes back to the vanity piece.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's like I just you know, you're never gonna open like what's it? I'm just trying to think of a really stupidly extreme example, right? Like, say you open a wine bar, yeah, and you want it to obviously look cool. Yeah, right. You want to be cutting edge, and it's like we're in Melbourne, it's gotta be this, it's gonna be that, but you're not gonna create a space at the front that is like a literal art gallery that's a maze to walk through before you can even get to the first station where someone seats you. Yeah. Why would you do that? Right? Like you're not gonna do that in real life, but but yet we would do that with our digital assets.
SPEAKER_04We definitely do. We're assuming that the audience already has bought what you're selling. Yeah, that's it. That is the statement. So you can do that if you're a legacy brand, you know, like Francois probably doesn't need a website, right? Because they're a legacy brand. But if you're brand new trying to break through market, tell people what the hell you're doing. Remove the friction. Remove it. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01It's good.
SPEAKER_04Um, I look at your Google business listing, uh, which is a massive opportunity, and I still don't think enough people know about it. Um, you can own so much of that uh beyond just, you know, just beyond getting angry that customers are posting shit photos about you on Google and you can't get pull them down. Get into your Google listing and make sure that your statement of what you do is is updated. Yeah. Make sure your category makes sense. So uh I used this example this morning when we were chatting, Leon, but um a diner in the middle of the CBD that's categorized as diner in Australia isn't coming up when I'm searching cafe near me. Got it. Like that's a problem.
SPEAKER_00It's a it's a diner-themed cafe, yeah, but they're calling it the diner.
SPEAKER_04They're calling it a diner because that's what they want to be, they're known as. And that's cool. But in Google, it's like if there's a tourist in town going, where's can I get a coffee near me? Nobody's typing in diner. Nobody's typing in diner.
SPEAKER_06Unless they're American. Unless they're American.
SPEAKER_04And then they won't find any in Melbourne. Yeah, yeah. There's alternate categories too. So don't just list something singular. If you are a wine bar that kind of broadly stretches into restaurant land or bar land, you can add like 10 other supplementary categories. So just thinking about all the people that would be searching for a place to go.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_04What how do you want to come up? What and if you are really flexible, which most Melbourne venues are, in that you don't just, you know, you're so welcome to drop in for drinks and snacks. If you're labeled as a restaurant on Google and just that, you probably probably won't show up. So can I ask as well, like how how much does this stuff really move the needle?
SPEAKER_00Because I think for a lot of people out there, they're gonna go, well, half of them probably don't even have the login password to this show. Oh yeah. And it's like, oh, I think that manager who worked here six years ago had it. I'll see if I can message them. But like, even if I do have all that, you can almost be forgiven for thinking, I said, how many people are really gonna be searching it? How many people like do you have a yardstick? Give me just some type of ballpark. Like, how much is this gonna change for me in noticeable revenue?
SPEAKER_04If you've got it wrong, yeah, quickly.
SPEAKER_00Okay, got it.
SPEAKER_04If you've got it wrong, a week.
SPEAKER_02A week.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we've we've got examples of within the last six months where we've changed the listing and the reservations shot up like right literally like that night.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, something categorizes a wine bar. No, it's actually a very specific type of cuisine and it's a restaurant, full service.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So change that, and then all of a sudden the book the bookings go up.
SPEAKER_00Wow. But surely it's it was it's got to be like you changed the listing, but then also you changed like, you know, you added the reserve now button or whatever. Yeah. So it's a figure, but but ultimately just that one thing alone is gonna make an impact.
SPEAKER_04Optimize your listing, go through the process, fill out as much as you possibly can within, you know, you click edit profile, and there's like 18 different sections that you can fill out. Fill them out. 18.
SPEAKER_00But there's loads. So but what's also great about this, this isn't like, okay, now you've got to be on this every single week. This is you do this once, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. And there's there's ways, uh, you know, part of somebody's marketing remit or the digital marketing person, it would be their responsibility to keep peppering this with little updates. Yeah. Google loves it when you use their system to its its full potential and it will prioritize you in search if you're if you're using it correctly. Love that. Yeah. So if you've got a ton of shitty photos that customers have uploaded, you can upload your own.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And if you do that, you know, four photos every couple of weeks, then then Google's going, okay, cool. Like this is actually what the food looks like here. Um, and I'm no SEO expert, but this shit is so basic that I would love every restaurant to look at it tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, you know what? I mean I I feel like anyone listening to this is just gonna go, oh yeah, I can totally do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it it's free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's gonna take half an hour. Yeah, worst case scenario.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, just cross-check your details. Are you opening hours correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Before a public holiday and long before a public holiday. If you're opening, update your Google hours. Because think about people who are making those decisions, particularly tourists coming in, they'll just Google and go, they're closed. They're not gonna look on your website for a pop-up or a what's on listing. They're gonna look at Google and get a really quick snapshot of what you're doing. So if that's wrong, you're you're letting people walk out the door, basically.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's just throw a little um listener engagement device out there without having any discussion about it prior. But they're like if anyone's listening to this and they actually do it, like and they see like within the first week a really cool uptick, yeah, hit us up and let us know. We won't mention you know the name of the restaurant if you don't want us to, but let's just do a little competition. Whoever whoever gets like the biggest improvement that's kind of tangible, Michael will take them out for dinner. Yeah, yeah. Oh, there it is. You had a free consulting dinner with Michael.
SPEAKER_04Do a little test. Everyone who has a venue, do a little test. It's like, all right, if I am a um bistro, a Melbourne bistro, Google Melbourne bistros.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_04If you don't come up at all, there's loads of work to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Website UX, Menus, And Data Capture
SPEAKER_04If you come up, have a look at what your Google listing says about you. And have a look uh if your website comes up, there's always like a little bit of preview text that sits under the website. So many people don't take control of this.
SPEAKER_06Oh, is that the the three tasting notes, so to speak? Cozy, casual, great for kids.
SPEAKER_04The three tasting notes that that are on Google are generated by reviews and you have absolutely no control over them. So it's a really good um metric for me going, what does the public think we are? And if you've got like fine diner and you're actually a casual plates restaurant, somewhere along your messaging journey you've cooked it. Sure. Because the public perception is that you're that. There's a section within Google where you can write your own uh it'll say from the restaurant, and you can claim that and and properly tell people what you do. Um, but yeah, uh the the preview of your website, there's often two sentences, and a lot of the time the websites have been set up and like a dev is just kind of chucked and shit in there. Right. So it might be that your event page, the first three sentences on your event page is the one that's allocated to that preview on Google. Um, you've got to change that because that's that needs to align with your overarching identity. We're a we're a European bistro in the suburbs doing this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay, so where are we going next?
SPEAKER_04We're going to website, customer experience, user experience, and and conversion potential. So I look at okay, how quickly on your website can I get access to the menu, the number one viewed page ever on restaurant websites.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And on that, is it up to date? Is it clear?
SPEAKER_00Um This is this is stuff we talked about on the reservation strategy episode, right? Maybe. We definitely did. I remember you you threw that great idea out there, which was um get someone you know. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, jump on a call, yeah, get your mum, screen record, or just watch them actually make a booking and see how they go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, that's true. All right, we'll skate past that. Um, I look at your EDM platform, your database. Are you capturing data? Do you are you is there a whole bunch of data out there just sitting somewhere that you're not?
SPEAKER_00What sort of data would would that be?
SPEAKER_04So in the booking journey, uh, you can opt into marketing. If that's not auto-checked, get it auto-checked. Got it.
SPEAKER_00Wow, just a simple one like that.
SPEAKER_04That's that's thousands of a week in cafe.
SPEAKER_00Do you guys always like just as individuals and your um consumer behaviors? Do you often untick the box? Is it your default?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, always untick.
SPEAKER_00Always untick. That's your default.
SPEAKER_04Leave it ticked. I leave it ticked for restaurant bookings. Yeah, it's kind of your job.
SPEAKER_00What do you do, Vani? Yeah, I pick and choose. Pick and choose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02It's gonna be something quite special for me to keep it.
SPEAKER_00Like, what's an example? Like some running shit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, actually, I've got a few others. Um, that's like a friend's restaurant. Uh I got it, got it, got it. Okay.
SPEAKER_06Um if it's like a sale on nappies on some random website, I'm definitely unchiming.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you're not in.
SPEAKER_00I'm I am brutal untick. Yeah, no matter what it is. I'm just I just don't trust them. But but it's funny, like my wife is the total opposite. Her default is keep it to keep it. So is my wife. Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_04There's a lot of people who still read EDMs. Don't don't let people tell you otherwise. Auto ticket. Auto ticket, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Gold.
SPEAKER_04Um, and then I look how you're using the database, what content, how often, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_00So so sorry, slow down. So you're gonna look at how you're using that content, did you say it? Yes. So not how you're using that database, how you're using the content that you're speaking to that database.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah. And and you're gonna try to go, hey, what are you actually saying? Are you just saying generic shit? Like it's Mother's Day this weekend, yeah, instead of like it's Mother's Day this weekend, and here's why you're actually offered. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And looking back at past ends and ripping through the analytics of those, what to open rate, standard, um, to kind of get a bit of a benchmark on that channel that you own, how well are you optimizing it?
SPEAKER_00What what's your vibe on like fully segmenting out your customer base into buckets of that are kind of optimized for conversion?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, in in a in Utopia, yeah, absolutely. Starbucks, yeah, and this is what like res systems or res platforms will sell into you, like, uh, people who love Runart Rose, you can send them a it relies on human.
SPEAKER_02You've got to curate it.
SPEAKER_04That's all tech in Australia. In the operation to tag that person, and that's often the missing piece.
SPEAKER_00And monitor it because that kit like you know, you get 80 people that are in that bucket that like the whatever you just said.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then suddenly that conversion rate goes down. Yeah. You know, maybe there's people in there that don't like it so much anymore, and you've got to be, you know, weeding that out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. What you can do though is is everybody who booked for Mother's Day last year, I'm going to send them an early release EDM, and that's a way of like segmenting your database. Yeah. But it it starts to cross over full on into like proper digital e-com domain where the the the opportunities are so incredible, but it relies on that foundational architecture and and and crossover with the ops team doing their part of the the piece.
Segmentation, EDMs, And Reservations
SPEAKER_00Yeah. For that to really, but it's it can it can be super impactful for a restaurant, but where you're gonna see a lot of people like really getting value out of this is like more like you know, if you're a coffee roastery or a beer company or something, like this is where you really drive that e-com optimization.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this give me uh spit out a list of everybody who's bought sours in the last year. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_04Um, then I look at the reservation system and the back-end strategy, which we won't dig into because we we've got another episode of that. Um and then feedback loops and your review management.
SPEAKER_00What is talk to me about feedback loop and review management?
SPEAKER_04So this is part of the retention piece. This is how do I keep them coming back? Um and your Google listing, don't hate on it, like get around it in terms of people leaving reviews on it, good or bad, respond to them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but definitely don't take the one-star review, screenshot it, put it on your socials, and then tell everyone why that person's an idiot.
SPEAKER_02There's one piece of advice I give on this episode is please stop doing that. Yeah, it's not good, honestly, just from a mental health perspective, bad for you. Yeah, it's just focusing on the wrong shit, and then it's projecting this idea of negativity out into a world as well. What should you do? I think I mean Lauren can't say this as well, but for me, I look at what is coming up consistently. What are the themes? Like, I'll see a one-star and I don't lose my mind anymore. I see a five star and I'm like, okay, great, that's lovely. But when I start to see a consistent, it's three stars and it's um a particular in the restaurant, or it's um it's a particular dish that gets mentioned, or just look at those consistencies and then feed that back to the restaurant because they're the things that are obvious that need to improve rather than the random person that a booking got forgotten or something that happened like that that's unusual. You're like, well, we can fix that, it's obvious, it's easy, but it's the stuff that comes up again and again you can't ignore.
SPEAKER_04It's a good thing to appoint a gatekeeper of this in the business. Yeah, that's great advice. And the less people who get that notification in their emails about a one star, the better because there's just so much angst that can, you know, you've got a director or an owner pinging you, going, what's this about? Yeah without knowing the greater context of the other 1,000 reviews that are actually quite useful.
SPEAKER_00Your advice there is like have a gatekeeper who will consolidate all the reviews on a weekly basis and just give me the insights.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and a good reservation um system with AI capability now is doing that for you and identifying themes, it's awesome. Yeah, um, in operations I've worked at in the past, it would be part of the weekly management meeting to go, cool, what's happened in the last week from a reviews perspective, what are the trends and and what do we need to action in terms of, you know, do we need to retrain that person? Do we need to talk to, does the chef need to look at that dish? Um but from a uh public perception perspective, replying to reviews, good or bad, will help your Google listing, it will help your ranking, and it's also a really nice brand piece that if somebody's completely shit-canned you on Google and other customers can see that you have responded really quickly going, please get in touch, we want to talk to you about it. That's good. That's that's the right thing, rather than ignoring it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um arguing. Yeah, and don't get so caught up on your on your star rating. Spend more time replying to reviews. Um and then uh social media I look at. So I look at your your your channels, like what are you actually using and are you using them all well? Um, or are you just you know, do you have a Facebook for the sake of it and you're not actually doing anything on it? Uh is your identity piece really clear there? Uh we are this and we offer that through uh the bios within or through the content itself. Um and it is it optimized? Do you have all of the buttons active? Do you have your hours really front and center? Do you have your address? Are your link trees taking you to those pages of the website that people want to get to quickly? Reservations pages and menu pages. I think everybody needs to become at social media and just the setup of it. People are deciding where to go based on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Before they they're not even going to your website. So look at that channel that's free to own and make sure it's optimized.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I mean it's a kind of a new world now as well. Like, get it to like we did that episode on the Gen Z stuff. Yeah. And it's like, use that as a bit of a guide as to how you think or rethink about the way that you manage content.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, remember ages ago that um William Anglis student group we had that did that insane research for us? Were you? No, no, that was next level. And they they just basically stood outside a train station doing a exercise for a local restaurant that had opened in the area, and we're just talking to locals about, you know, what do you think about this place? And so many people had not even heard about it, yeah, when they literally walked past it three times a day. And one of the one of the really smart questions that they put in there was like, where do you um tend to get your news around, you know, where to go? And it was some stupid stat, like over 90%. Yeah, it over-indexed. Yeah, it was nuts. And and what they said was like where they get their advice in heavy quotes from um is from influencers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, just they've just found a bunch of influencers online that they go, how that person really speaks to me. And now over 90% of their decisions get made based on those recommendations. Yeah. Crazy.
Reviews, Feedback Loops, And Response
SPEAKER_04Or or yeah, social media is guiding the way. So if even before you think about content, just get the basic information on there. I this happens all the time when I'm trying to find somewhere to go on like a public holiday, what's opened. Right. Go to the website and I haven't got it listed on the website, on their homepage, on a pop-up, or what's on, kills me. I go to Google, looks like they're closed. I kind of heard that they were open. I go to their social and there's like some dumb story that expired yesterday going, it's like well, are you open or are you not? So look at look at think about that. Look at that.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04Uh, and then the customer service touch points is the next thing I might look at. So I'll dig through emails, I'll see what your phone setup is, gift vouchers, just all those little admini annoying things that happen every day and how are they being managed.
SPEAKER_00And and would you, would you, would you could you extend the customer service touch? I know we're getting into more like, you know, Michael's domain with the product stuff and and the during bit of the journey, but that then is the that's if this was a Venn diagram, that's where they would cross over, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, they cross over in a few bits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but that that particular nexus is kind of like where, you know, the customer service touch points, you're gonna talk about, you know, you say emails and and phone and and that sort of stuff, but at the table too.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? Like that's the during bit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and all of this, you know, brand deck, mission stuff, the identity piece, like that has to be woven through that as well if you want to get the maximum conversion.
SPEAKER_04Definitely, the way you talk to your customers in venue has to mirror how you do it out of venue.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think on the a great quote that can't has always stuck in my head from someone uh regarding that in particular is does the holiday match the brochure? Yeah. A restaurant opens and it's been over three months, you can't wait to get there. You all look split in great on socials and people posting about it, and you're like you have this really clear idea in your head, and you get there, and it's like the biggest like let down. But you there's big parts missing in the storytelling, or the touch points at table, or you know, didn't even really learn about why the food is in this way, or all those those bits that are missing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. Not that identity piece not filtering through to the as to the op stamp. Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anything else in the marketing order?
SPEAKER_04The last one is I'll look at all um agencies that you're working with, anything you're spending money on that you think should be getting your results in marketing.
SPEAKER_00What do you look at are you measuring there? Like, is it converting?
SPEAKER_04Is it converting? And if not, why not? Yeah, a lot of it, like a lot of people will pay a social media agency and all they're doing is uh providing you with strategy. Whereas the venue needs content capture and hustle and response to uh people messaging you and live highlights. So you might have a good strategy and somebody that can create a gorgeous mood board and tell you when and what to post, but then the missing piece is the do-it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, gotta look at all of yeah, all of that stuff. Okay, so quick like time out. Let's go back a step. Yeah. So the what we've sort of covered so far, right? Like your advice and and your kind of like jam is to start with just approaching marketing from that lens of like pre-during post.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. So everything that happens to your guest, yeah, pre-during post, right? And even if you just start there, you're gonna get some great perspective.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But then even within each of those three, let's call them pillars, can it be a pillar if it's not four? Do you have to have four pillars?
SPEAKER_05I don't know.
SPEAKER_00This podcast is brought to you by four pillars.
SPEAKER_02No, you don't need four pillars. You can have one pillar.
SPEAKER_00You can have two pillars, right? Yeah, yeah. You can have three hundred if you've got. Got it. So the three pillars, right? And in each of those pillars, there's a whole toolkit. But I feel like your marketing audit kind of speaks to all.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00All the all the toolkits within each of the pillars. Yeah. And if I am to um use my incredible memory to try to like summarize each of those points, tell me what I got wrong here. Okay. Okay. Categories within your marketing audit. You start with identity because you need that to be super clear. And there's a lot of alignment across all the channels, like the identity, let's call it like the glue. Okay. So you've got to nail the glue. Okay. Then you're going to look at the Google business listing. You're going to look at website UX and conversion potential. I think that's how you put it. Um, you're going to look at EDM platform. Then you're going to go into reservation and reservation strategy, like we did on that other episode. Then you're going to look at social media, all the content creation. Then you're going to look at customer service touch points. And then you're going to review all the agencies and retainers that someone's spending money on and making sure you're getting bang for buck.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00How did I do?
SPEAKER_04Feedback was the bit that you missed. The feedback was it pretty well. You did pretty well.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's epic, dude. I mean, again, you know, if someone just wrote that shit down, took it into their business, they're gonna make their business better. Yeah. Even without having, you know, like you involved to help them with that, they're gonna be able to add value just by just going, cool, these are the areas I should look at my business through and then go and do it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's the one percenters, like I'm the queen of adjusting one percenters.
SPEAKER_00It's all about optimization.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's boring and annoying, but give me a year, and if you change, if you do, yeah, like a one percenter every week.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it stacks up, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Crazy. Okay, so um where would we go from here? I mean, that that was that was hectic good. Like, I feel like anyone listening to that is gonna get a lot of value from it. I hope so. Yeah, but there's more, right? There's so much more. Yep. So do we want to um hit pause here? I think so. And take everything else into the next episode.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think so. Particularly how it how uh marketing has a play or a very significant place in each part of our pyramid.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_04So identity, product, consistency, and then promo. Um, yeah, I'm not just waiting at the top of the triangle to to hit to hit stuff. We're we're doing work in all of those levels. Love that. It'd be good to dial into that at some point.
Social Setup And Decision Touchpoints
SPEAKER_00Okay, so so let's just say that was um, so that whole episode was all about approach. Yeah. And let's just say that was part one of what is marketing?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But yeah, it could be six episodes. I don't know how many we're gonna do, but that was part one. Stay tuned for part two.
SPEAKER_04Cool.
SPEAKER_00Lovely. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks for watching. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06Thanks for listening. Show notes, takeaways, and tools are available via our website, Pax.mel. The Pax Hospitality Podcast is produced by Pax and Crate Creative. Support for this podcast comes from Square and Brunswick Design and Innovation. Our music is produced by Patricia Heath and Matthias Festivent.