The PAX Hospitality Podcast
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For the hospitality industry, created by the team at PAX.
The PAX Hospitality Podcast
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In this second episode of the Pinnicast, we get into the messy, often humorous reality of taking over the iconic Pinnacle pub in North Fitzroy. Michael shares the highs and lows of the past week, including a dealing with real estate agents and the logistical hurdles of a liquor license transfer. We explore the critical search for a chef-partner, highlighting the potential involvement of industry heavyweights like Scott Eddington of Arnold’s. Key insights include Michael’s "rainy day" forecasting philosophy, the importance of "equity-bought" leadership, and a provocative discussion on why the industry should abandon "gatekeeping" IP in favour of a "rising tide" mentality that prioritises community and collaboration.
Join us on this journey from idea to opening the doors to The Pinnacle.
Check out Michael's Pinnacle deck here.
For more information on The Pinnacle, visit thepinnacle.melbourneFor more information on PAX, pax.melbourne
Follow @pax.melbourne on social media.
Podcast produced by Posterboy Media.
PAX acknowledges the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging and to all First Nations People.
Welcome, Pax Hospitality Podcast listeners and penny cast listeners to episode two. It's day two. That means there's gonna be eight more days, eight more episodes to go. We're stoked that you're coming along for the ride. Uh thanks to everyone who keeps reaching out to us. Like I said, we love the contact. Um so hit us up, hello at packs.melbourne anytime. We'd love to hear from you guys. Today's episode, um, for a little bit of context, is uh what happened in this one. It's this timeline's so whacked, like I I really struggle to remember exactly what happened when, and I didn't get to really listen back to this before I did this intro, so it's it's you know, disclaimer it's gonna be patchy. Um, and that's okay. That's what the kind of you know nature of this show is. Yeah, so this episode was cool. Like we definitely did a bunch. We bagged out the agent, we got a bit of a structure in place moving forward for each episode where we agreed we'd talk about you know some set parameters. One of the things we included in that parameter is that every episode from here on out, I'm gonna throw a random idea at Michael and just see if he likes it or not. We also talked about staff in this one. We talked about the journey to to find a chef and drop Scott's name pretty early, which is kind of cool. So there's something there, and I'm probably forgetting a bunch of stuff, but who cares? There's gonna be another episode coming out tomorrow, so whatever I stuff up today, we'll all probably forget about in the next 24 hours. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Yeah, hit us up if you if you have any thoughts. Catch us later. Away we go. Nice. Away we go. Um, all right, so back to the pub and talking about the pub. I should say le pub because there's a venue called Le Pub in the city, which is great. But don't reference that. The pub. Yeah. So yeah, obviously, like this is great, right? This is the second time I'm asking you questions about the pub. Yeah. Um, so we're it's it's been a week. Has it been a week? It feels like it's been a month since it's been two. It's been two. It's been two weeks. Has it been two weeks? Has it? I think we did it last week. We did it last week. Yeah. It was definitely last week. Yeah. But it's probably been more than seven days, if that makes sense. Yeah. But still, it's either fucking way, it's felt like three months of shit that has happened in that time.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, all right. So a bit of a format for this is you know, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of things, right? So give us an overview of the week. Tell us about your biggest conflict, biggest stress, any wins worth reporting. We'll do a little like spoiler alert, like give us a glimpse as to what you're seeing in terms of a product sense. Um, I'm gonna throw a random idea at you and you can tell me why it's good. I'll smash it out of the park. Yeah. Um, but then ultimately what we want this to be is like a real like people out there to be riding shotgun with this process.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I think we're let's get through the agenda in heavy quotes. And I really want to get into the real talking points. Yeah. Right. Because I want people that are listening to this to just be like, not just listening to people randomly talking about a pub. It's like, I want people to be able to go, oh fuck, is that I didn't realise that was a thing. And oh wow, that's an interesting way to tackle that problem. And so I think just as a bit of a disclaimer, we're gonna divulge some pretty sensitive information here. And without permission from any of the people. Sorry. Yeah, no, but what we'll do is uh before we release anything, if we mention anyone, I'll I'll ask them. Yeah, and if they've got an issue with it, we'll release it anyway. Again, sorry. We'll bleep their name out. Should we say the date? The date of what? Today? Today. Yeah, what is the date?
SPEAKER_03:So this is the 27th of November. Yeah. This will be released. This is app two, so it'll be released towards the end of Janish. End of Jan, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just to give context to like timelines.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, to place it. Cool. Um, but yeah, like I said, right, I think we want to be able to talk about, you know, who we want the chef to be and the conversation we had with that person. And even and we want to be able to talk about the structure, right? So, like last week when we're talking about it, you know, this was not a PAX thing. This was just you doing it on your own. Yeah. Um, but now you've roped us in. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, guys. And it is a PAX thing. And, you know, like we're involved now, like we're gonna own something and and we're pumped about it. Like it's fucking cool, right? It's probably one of the most exciting projects I've been a part of. But there's a really interesting dialogue that we need to have about how does this present from a brand perspective, right? Because it's not just like a solo thing that you're doing anymore. It's like, no, no, now there's another business that is looped into this. We have to have a pretty big discussion around how that works and what the implications of that are and how we manage that. And do you do you veil it? And it's like it all packs as like a silent part that no one knows about it, or you just own it and we talk about it.
SPEAKER_03:Dive into it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Do you want to do that first? Or look, let's go through the icebreaker stuff. Yeah, go icebreaker. Okay, okay, okay. So, first and foremost, just give us an overview, man. Like, what's happened in the last uh eight to ten days?
SPEAKER_03:Eight to ten days. So more investor chats, which is which has been great. So that's all progressing well. Um discussions with the agent. Your mate, lots of sashes going back and forth. I okay, this is a good one. Like in the last week, we, as we're doing the liquor license transfer, realised that um we needed to create a new company, which we're already we're going to do anyway. Yeah, um, but rather than having it as um PACs have the legal liquor license, which didn't make sense. We didn't want that. We had to backtrack and quickly create the new company, an entity um in order to be able to initiate that transfer properly. So I very hurriedly to put together a new company and um pushed it back to the agent so then he could initiate that transfer. Kind of boring stuff, but shit to watch out for. Well, yeah, I mean, we had to fill out all those forms again. Exactly, which is painful, and then be told that you haven't done them. And I'm like, bro, I did it twice only to find out, oh yeah, the website sucks, it's not you. It's like tell me that at the start. Because I'm going crazy. I said to you the other day, I've never felt as dumb and smart at the same time when dealing with this stuff. It's just like, why do I feel so stupid? But it but the this agent's a classic. Oh, classic. As far as agents go. And I'm sure he's working on a few business, a few sales at the same time. But fuck.
SPEAKER_04:But look, okay, so we just to be really safe here, like you you did say his name, so we'll bleep that out. But you know, once we've bleeped out the name, like talk freely here.
SPEAKER_01:Can we keep the bleeping to a minimum? That's a lot of work for me. I didn't even know how to bleep yet.
SPEAKER_04:We'll we'll we'll I'll help you out. Yeah. But basically, on that side, it's like I don't know, you've had way more dealings with like agents directly than I have, you know, over our careers, but this one seems like out of the out of control.
SPEAKER_03:Like, what the fuck? Uh I mean sometimes it's like I said before, I feel like, oh, I'm lacking here. I'm not doing what's being asked for. That's why I'm getting all these messages, like messages. Oh, you haven't done that yet. Where's this? Yeah. Um, but I feel like at the same time I've been doing everything that's been asked. So it's a bit very all over the place. But it's yeah, sorry, no, I guess. It's just it's it's a stress factor.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but but it's but it's demeanor, right? Because it's like I like okay, let me ask you a question. You send someone an email requesting some information, let's just say what is the appropriate amount of time to lap before you then give them a nudge asking them for for that information again.
SPEAKER_03:If you label it as urgent, yeah, uh it's gotta be over 24 hours still.
SPEAKER_04:Right, still 24 hours. Still 24 hours.
SPEAKER_03:And if it's not labeled it, but if it's before, if it's shorter than 24 hours, it should be a phone call. Hey, I'll just send you an email. Yeah just so you know it's pretty urgent. Yeah. That's what should happen.
SPEAKER_04:So I I I think for me, right, like I have spent the majority of my life nudging people for shit that I've requested. And I'll say, like, if I send an email out, you know, and I don't get a response, I I'm more like three days minimum before I'll do the nudge.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, 24 hours is acceptable, but I'll probably give them a bit more grace, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Man, old mate sends me an email out of the blue asking for something. I've no idea this is even coming. Yeah. Right. And it's not just like a, oh yeah, I'll just look it up on my phone. Do it two seconds. Yeah, it's like you gotta go find this information. And then it was like four hours later. Where's his stuff? Yeah, it was like, hey mate, just making sure you haven't forgotten about me. I honestly think he just likes contacting people. I don't think he's random. I mean, because it was even then the random emo, it's like, okay, I'll do it on Saturday morning when I'm hungover. Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, this is great. This is kind of great now. Yeah. Um I I think I've just literally, because we've set up the university, it's all in situ now. And we're kind of past that next step. I find it it's comical to me now. Right. Now it's a bit funny. But I'm not gonna stress about it.
SPEAKER_04:I just I feel like it's it's like this dude would be an awesome dude to like watch a test match with at the pub over a few years, but as soon as you got to do something pretty uh who does he go for in uh uh Premier League?
SPEAKER_03:Uh Millwall. Awesome. Yeah, that is so good. Like, I love this character already. As soon as he said that, I was like, Leon's gonna fucking have some yards with this guy.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, that's so good. Like, if this was a TV show, like I feel like he'd be a fan favourite of it.
SPEAKER_01:We're giving away way too much information on this person. Someone's gonna know that guy who supports Millwall in all places. But but when all this is said and done, there's not many millwalls avoided and it's a real estate agent.
SPEAKER_04:But I feel like when this is all said and done, we'll be having beers anyway, and it'll all be just funny. And I think he'd just take the piss out of it. I think so. All right, anyway, moving on. What else has happened?
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah, so investor chats uh going well, we've chatted. Uh what next? Uh spoke to um my mate, long-term work friend Nick Tessa uh about the project, which has been awesome. Um what was Nick's take? Nick's take was he, I mean, I roped him into writing the cocktail list for us. Nice um, as he's done for a few uh few mates. Um so thank you, Nick, in advance for the great cocktail list. Um and yeah, Nick runs around with four pillars and his own company, Marionette. So I dare say they'll feature heavily on the liquids um that go into the drinks. So excited about that. Um I mean, he would be the best public in in the imaginable, but I don't think I can rope him away yet from um his current job. Um I mean we're we're waiting on the chef front for Scott to come back to us.
SPEAKER_04:Um what what's your what's your voice? Like give us an update on how the conversation with Scott's gone. Uh I mean And we're talking about Scott Eddington from Arnold's yeah, if there's any like confusion. Scott Pickett.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're not a bit on his plate.
SPEAKER_04:Is that another bleep?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um I mean, uh the best thing about the meeting with Scott was before I even got to the brief of what the food parameters were, he told me the brief. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, ah, yeah, you get it. Yeah. And the references gave were like, oh, yep, you this is you you know exactly what's awesome, how we're talking. So that's that's awesome.
SPEAKER_04:It was it was such a no-brainer. Like, I like I threw Scott's name up straight away. Yeah. Like I didn't even hesitate because I was just like, This is has him written all over it. And it's like, and then when I actually called him to chat about it, because what's quite funny is how the conversation started was I literally just messaged him and said, Hey, you want to go in on a pub?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And he basically was just like, Yeah, let's chat. Yeah, because that's what he does. Great stuff. Yeah, and then we just chat on the phone. Like, normally with a lot of people, that would be like a full on, like, let's meet up, let's chat over 17 weeks. Yeah. Whereas it's just like, yeah, fucking, let's chat. And then we talked on the phone. And I before I even said anything, it was like I he knew in the text message I told him, he's like, which pub? And I told him, um, and then when we jumped on the phone, he's like, Man, you know what it is? It's this. And he just literally said the brief that you'd been saying, yeah, you know, using almost the exact same words, and I was like, Oh man, we just need to get a chat happening.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And so then, yeah, so which we did do, right? So we met there, went and grabbed a coffee at Dench, we looked through the deck.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And how did you feel, you know, coming away from that chat?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I I felt straight away, A, he understood it straight away. Like I said, he he said the brief without even looking at the brief, um, which is always a good start. And with the vibe with Sky, like I always just feel like there's a very high level of trust straight away. Um, he spoke through the like uh the breakdown of investors and um what the sh basically food partner or chef would be getting from equity. Equity-wise, equity-wise, he said, Oh, why is it equity instead of a consult like just a consulting fee? And straight away it was like, well, we want someone bought in long term. Like, I don't want to think about the kitchen essentially from a like personnel point of view. Like, I need someone that's bought in in a way that wants to build that kitchen and own it, yeah, literally. Um, rather than you know, you can there's there's some great uh chefs that do consults. Um, but at the same time, as we know with what some consults can do is write the menu, put the initial team together, and then in six months something happens and they're like they're the first to put their hand up and kind of walk away. Yeah, sure. And we just don't want that. Like we want someone that's bought in long term with us, that's that works at a level that we want to work at. Um I think and it's really communicative and all the other things we we desire.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think just to bolster that a bit, like reading through the deck, you know, and I wonder if we should make the deck uh visible, like accessible, like let people see it. Yeah, I mean chuck a link in the show notes. Why not look for it? Why not?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I just think when you look at the deck, like something that I think is so important that comes through is uh understanding and accepting the responsibility that comes with the stewardship of a pub. Yeah. And so when you look at it from that lens, you gotta have a chef that's a part owner. Yeah. That's living and breathing, you know, that's accepting that stewardship.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you because otherwise you risk um change too often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. And uh you're not doing your job properly as a steward. Yeah, and such an important thing with for a pub and I mean any venue, but particularly for a pub around the stewardship and community focus and sort of thing, you need a stable ship to be able to hit consistency, like we always talk about. Um people need to know what they're coming in for every time. And I feel like if you don't have that chef bought in and you're constantly cycling through people running that kitchen every six to twelve months, then it's you're not gonna have a city ship. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So back to Scott though, like we he was a name that went on the list amongst quite a few other names. A few others, yeah. And but what's I think like just to have emphasis on how strongly we feel about this being such an opportunity for you know, such a great opportunity for us and him to work together, like we haven't even started talking to anyone else on that list, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Uh I've like very casually reached out to a couple of people, okay, but um whenever whenever I've worked with uh tried to get some great talent um and work with them, I've always done like the hey, here's a a job description. Yeah, oh yeah. What do you think about it? Know anyone?
SPEAKER_04:Like that angle. That's another coward's way of asking a girl out on the show. So who did it in Seinfeld? Remember the guy who's like, um, what was his tactic? He goes, I'll make a bet that he knows he's gonna lose. Oh, that's right. Yeah, genius.
SPEAKER_01:It was about it was a certain person who was an actor in Star Wars who knows it's wrong.
SPEAKER_04:All right, I'll buy you lunch.
SPEAKER_01:It's like George Clooney or something.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I mean, I've you know, in the past when I've done that with people, like short of putting a billboard for the job ad in front of their front door, like I've done everything else. So um I mean, there's there's names that kind of through got thrown around. Uh like someone I would absolutely love to work with, um, and I think in that setting would work really, really well is Joe Barrett. Like she's like, I love her food. There's a cat like a well-executed casualness to her food that I just love. Like, you know, the last place she had was at a bowls club um down in Lawn. Lawn, yeah. Um and yeah, like you know, dip sims on the menu and and just all like it'd be fucking amazing. Yeah, um and now she's she's got a pie company, wild pie. Um and I just felt well that would fucking fit really well in the pub as well. But yeah, she's she doesn't live in Melbourne anymore, she's very busy, so it's always like that. It's with venues, it's all it's so timing based. Right, right. Right right venue at the right time, the right people that are also on the right timeline to jump on and that sort of thing. So that's that's the tension you have to work with when you're when you're developing a venue, right?
SPEAKER_04:Um but it's not it's not necessarily uh like a reflection on on how much you might value a person or not. It's just the timing thing is important. And yeah, Scott's been first cab off the rank for a couple of reasons, right? As we've just sort of stated, but where where do you uh land on? Because there's quite a few obvious barriers there too. Like, even if Scott was like, Man, I just want to fucking do this tomorrow, he's not just necessarily in a position to just jump in. Yeah, totally. What's your gut say? That like what do you think he's gonna get back to us and say?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I think he'll say no, uh, but with convinced. Oh, just because when you have a single venue and you're the guy, you're the guy or the girl, like it's so hard to get out and do the next thing. Yeah, it's it's the only time you double in size. Yeah. Right? Totally.
SPEAKER_04:It's like it's a big I just it's so funny though, because I just don't see that as a barrier for him. But I also know like this is just purely logical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like it's it's it's actually the spark plug that can unlock exactly where he needs to be. I mean, that's exactly what I said to him.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Like I found it really hard to grow professionally when I was doing service five nights a week. Right. And it was until I was like, you know what, two nights a week and I could work on the businesses, I could change everything.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, because it's it's also it's just not where, like, not just Scott, you and Scott I'd say have this in common. It's not where you do your best work.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_04:Do you know what I mean? Like doing service night after night. There's people that are just really, really good at that. Yeah. And they'll never miss a beat. And then there's people that aren't so good at that, and they're better suited in other areas. Like for guys like you and Scott, it's like project management, operations, solving lots of problems that are new every week. Like that, you guys are made for that shit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And once you get into positions like that, you integrate, right? And your mental health goes up and your energy goes up and you just generally contribute more. But then suddenly, if it's like you get sucked back into that, it's like, hey, you're gonna have to do these four shits. Like, man, it takes a lot of things.
SPEAKER_03:You're in the vortex.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so when you're in the vortex, it's hard to see the logic, you know. But yeah. Should we just send this to Scott? Well, no, I'm just gonna like, I think where it where it landed was I was like, okay, I'll hit him up over the weekend. Yeah. And then we paid a bit of phone tag, and I'm expecting the same response too. That he's just gonna be like, man, I'd love to do this, but I just don't want to fuck you guys around, and I'm not in a position just yet to be able to you know, to be able to jump into this and commit my whole, you know, all those classic things.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, which is what we already had from you know, talking about uh Reed House being involved.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that was very that was very much like we need to get, you know, Reed's only a year old. Yeah. Um, and that's again a timing thing. It all comes down to timing.
SPEAKER_04:But in this instance, my my response is just gonna be really simple. It's like, hey, outside of the business aspect, like we're mates, right? I mean it's got a really good mate. And it's like, I'm just gonna say to him, look, it's cool, uh, whatever your position is, it's great. Like I've learned the hard way over the years, you know, not to go too hard trying to convince someone to do a certain job. However, yeah, but in this case, I'm just gonna say, look, you gotta give me at least two opportunities to talk you out of it, you know, or to talk you into it. Yeah, you know, and if after those two opportunities you still don't feel any different, then it's like, man, it's cool, you know, like we'll support you. But I just think there is that, you know, there's a lot of value there that is worth uncovering because even when it gets to that point of like, okay, well, I'm gonna try and step away from my business and move into more of an ops role conceptually and still have that, you know, I'm a sole trader with a business to run. It's like, yeah, but you also are gonna have like the whole PAX team to help you. To help you.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that's a big thing for you know us to get across, right? It's like we can support the other way as well, which which could be a big win. Um, you know, Kate's already met with him to talk about finance stuff.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, so all right, so stay tuned till next week to know whether we have a chef or not. This episode of the Pinnacle Podcast is brought to you by Industry Kitchens. Now, if you don't know Industry Kitchens and you haven't yet met Tim Keenan, I'd strongly suggest you remedy that pretty quick. Especially if you actually need anything in the kitchen world. I'm talking catering equipment, any kitchen equipment, commercial refrigeration, dishwashers. I mean, these guys literally have everything right down to chemicals and stuff that you need on the weekly. Now, why I rave about these guys is because it's not just about getting the right price, right? Like where Tim adds a lot of value is he makes sure that you actually get the right product. Okay, and that adds a whole ton of value on top of the actual price as well. So the biggest difference I've experienced with these guys over the years is that Tim's a chef. Often, when you're dealing with sales reps in this sector, they might be really great salespeople and they've worked in sales for a long time, but they haven't actually worked in kitchens. So with Tim, you're getting someone who can bridge the gap between what you know about your product and your kitchen and what you might not know about opportunities in terms of equipment, even right down to sizes and dimensions and options. So pretty much anyone who consults Tim is going to save money, not just on equipment, but through just better efficiency and logistics. I've recommended Tim to a bunch of people over the years, and every single time it comes back with the most glowing endorsement. So if you need anything at all, highly recommend you find these guys and get in touch. Put them on your radar, and I promise you won't regret it. Thanks to Industry Kitchens. Um, you've been an amazing sponsor of the show. Okay, what was the rest of it? So, biggest conflict of the week. Did you already talk about that?
SPEAKER_03:Biggest conflict, I mean that was the agent stuff, and we kind of got through it. Yeah. What are you most stressed about then? What are most stressed about? I mean the food partner, for sure. Because then there's so many pieces that fall into place because the structure of that back of house is obviously really important. And depending on the chef that we get, we'll change that structure. Because for Scott, if it is Scott, um it's one way. Then if it's for the next person, it could be actually they're gonna just they don't have another venue. Sure. And they're gonna be full-time head chef at that venue. So that structure changes. Big impact. So yeah, it just changes like our forecasting in terms of budget and all that sort of stuff. So um yeah, I just need that stuff to fall. So then I feel really comfortable going into Christmas, yeah, knowing that we're coming out of the other side with someone.
SPEAKER_04:It's funny though, because like where my mind goes when I think about what's the thing to stress most about, I look at it from the capital component, and yeah, okay, well, which I'm like, well, yeah, you're not worried about that at all, which is fair enough because the deck's amazing and the in and the conversations we're having with investors are amazing. There's more conversations than there are spots to fill. Yeah. So that's great, but there's but there's also way more names on the list of potential chefs than there is on the list of potential investors, which to me is always like a man, if we don't get enough capital, yeah, like none of this is gonna happen. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, I mean, it will, it just won't happen the way we want, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, there's always there's there's two ways to cut that. There's okay, we don't get the investors we want. Okay, maybe say we get two out of the three slots filled. Yeah. So that means we've got two thirds of the investment.
SPEAKER_04:Well, no, go to the extreme. Say we get none of the three.
SPEAKER_03:We get none of three.
SPEAKER_04:Right. We're we're just we're pouring it. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, that's then this is the way I'm sort of getting at. It's like that happens, then it's full bootstrap mode.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_03:If spend three dollars. Two out of the three, yeah, and we've got two-thirds of the capital, then it just the budget changes. Exactly and the timeline changes. Timeline changes a little bit, budget changes.
SPEAKER_04:But but what I mean is like where if we bootstrap it, like think of it as a journey, right? We bootstrap it, and I would say going down that pathway, it's probably 12 months before you've got the business running conceptually the way you want it.
SPEAKER_03:Totally.
SPEAKER_04:With all the money that you've got, you open on day one with that. So then it's just a question of okay, well, if I've got half the money, that journey is probably a six-month journey instead of a twelve-month journey.
SPEAKER_00:What are the wins that are worth reporting?
SPEAKER_03:Wins that are worth reporting. I'd say uh definitely the investor chats. Yeah, they've been so they've been really good and really positive. Um and yeah, continuing and that's why I feel quite confident going into Christmas, going, okay, we've got two out of three by Christmas. Pretty good. Yeah, huge. Um and also being able to uh tell other potential investors who's actually dropped in to be to know, like, well, this is the group. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the team. Yeah. Um, so I think that's definitely the the overall the biggest win. I think the other big win is just being able to build a relationship with the current owner and not being like this, you know, veiled thing that happens. Um, it's just transactional. We're buying the business and don't really talk to the owner and that sort of stuff. And this has like quite been been pretty collaborative. Yeah, I've been able to pick up the phone and have a chat to him about something. I'm meeting him today to talk about handover stuff. Wow. So we're just really early on doing that. That's pretty rare. Yeah, unless you know them already. Yeah, yeah. Um, I think it's pretty rare. And I just having that ability to have uh, you know, having someone that's up for it, number one, that picks up their phone and said from day one, like we're gonna make this as easy as possible. And a lot of people say that, and then as you go on, it changes.
SPEAKER_01:But in the last few weeks, he's just been like You know, I've had an email exchange with him, and he's been that's been the first thing he said in every email. Yeah. He's like, I really love this place and I want to see it do well, and whatever I can do to help is I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_03:So that's awesome. So I feel like that's a massive win because I want to again, it comes down to stewardship. Yeah, it's like take over and I want him to be able to come in and feel comfortable with doing that. Whereas some people like don't want to have anything to do with it after they exit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, and I think yeah, if we can achieve that, then we've we've won, right? Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny.
SPEAKER_04:So so many people are just like, man, I'll throw you the keys as I'm driving away from this city, right?
SPEAKER_03:Side note, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:If I can find them.
SPEAKER_03:These are meant to be short episodes, but quick side quest. Yeah. When we took over Bar Liberty, yeah, fucking hell. So Manu kind of knew the guy, um, and not well at all. Um, but after we bought it, day one, like I got the key, opened the door, and instantly I knew something was wrong. Uh-oh. And as I walked through the building, they literally the night before was their last service, had a massive party and walked out. I'm talking like beer bottles with cigarettes in them. It was literally like nothing trashed though. Nothing smashed or trash, but it was fucked. Like just shit form. It was really shit formed. Like, I was literally day one moving into my first business, and I was like, is this how it is? Like, I'm picking up beer bottles and um the bins hadn't been put out and it hadn't been cleaned at all, floor was sticky, and then you go into the kitchen and it's like the fridges had been turned off with food left in them.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, why?
SPEAKER_03:I still smell the smell, bro. Ten years later, that smell is still back in my head of the waft of just death.
SPEAKER_04:Oh man. Like, why do that? Why do it not? Yeah, it's not cool. No, but also remember, you can't also make too many assumptions, right? Like, you're talking about you don't know the hardships that person was going through. And I'm okay with that. Yeah. However, like to go to the extreme of having a party.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's almost like going out of your way to make it hard. It's just like, fuck mate.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they probably had a thing with the landlord, and the landlord's not affected by this. And it's not us, we're not the landlord.
SPEAKER_03:So anyway, like that I know that's not going to be the case.
SPEAKER_01:Last little win, I think, was we've probably found someone great for brand stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so taking um what the brand currently is, uh, and Tim put a great brief together for a designer, and then we've got uh Rob, um, who's based over in the US, uh, who we've done a lot of work with. He's a good friend. Um and yeah, he's gonna take the brand on, which is awesome. Yeah, um, and there's again one of those things like getting it done now. People be like, fuck, you're not opening for like three months. It's like, yeah, but we need the brand in order to do the website, in order to do the menus, in order to do printing on glassware, which needs to happen before Christmas. So it needs to happen now. Okay, good segue. Printing on glassware. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Hit you with my idea? Yeah. Here we go. So a couple of weeks back, I'm at um one of our favorite pubs, the the Greensboro Hotel. Oh, sometimes you just quest the story that we have. All right, but sometimes you just have to have meetings there, right? And so I was in a meeting there, um, and I noticed on the pint glass, yeah, guess what was printed?
SPEAKER_02:Uh the logo?
SPEAKER_04:No. It was a mini little advert for like a local landscaping business. Oh my god. Sponsor the pint glasses.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. No, my commercial brain has wet.
SPEAKER_03:We can pay our rent on this.
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, we're on. We're on. I mean, I didn't. It's gonna be if it was a sick, it was either has to be like landscaping, like funny shit, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like just weird business.
SPEAKER_04:Real weird business. I think I I didn't think about like fully monetizing it. I just thought of it as a way for looking at the colour. It's core form of CEO, mate. No, no, no, no, hang on, hang on. I'm thinking about like what's our mission, right? Enrich community is the last two words of everything. I was like, man, maybe there's people in the local area that could do with free advertising.
SPEAKER_01:There's got to be something with a next door neighbor, which is a nursery. Yeah. Pot plants you're drinking out of a pot.
SPEAKER_03:I haven't worked through it yet. Next door, drink this pot. Pot squared. Pot squared. Yeah. I mean Pinamontis.
SPEAKER_04:You know what I reckon would be good is like, you know, the the local footy team over 35 division need players. That's where you want to put that message. Yeah. Everyone who's watching the city. And they'll play, by the way. I can play. Okay. I would have to sweeten the deal if that's part of it. Yeah, absolutely. But no, like, I just feel like everyone who's over 35, they're gonna be watching the footy drinking a beer going. They need players.
SPEAKER_01:Even on the menu on the car, I reckon. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So like the idea?
SPEAKER_01:I put it in the really annoyed I like it.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna back pocket that. Let me let me run a bit of a thought process through it. I reckon I'll, yeah, I reckon it'll land.
SPEAKER_04:All right, awesome.
SPEAKER_03:There's some good stuff in there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, some there's some opportunities for sure. Hey everybody, it's time for another quick community announcement thanks to the guys at Industry Kitchens. So I'm gonna talk to you today about Skate Up. That's S-K-A-T-E-U-P. If you have a kid who is thinking about getting into skateboarding, these are the guys to hit up. Arturo, who has founded the business, is an ex-sponsored skater, unbelievable coach. The program is amazing. Um, operating out at Eddie Gardens pretty much every single week. Uh, skateboarding is definitely something that will change your life, whether you're a kid or an adult. Uh, I can give you first hand advice on this. If your kid has an interest, don't make the mistake of trying to nurture it yourself. Uh unless you're good at skateboarding. And even then, I'd be wary. You know, go and see a coach. It is like the absolute best way to do it. And Arturo is one of the best in the game. We've been through a lot. Um, I take my son to see Arturo once a week. We are always on repeat there. Um, and it's been such a meaningful change in our lives and for and for Van, my son, who um is an obsessive skateboarder. So if you're thinking about skate classes, doesn't matter how old you are, whether it's for your kid or whether it's for yourself, head down to Eddie Gardens, hit up Arturo, and you pretty much can't go wrong. Check him out on Instagram or online. Okay, circle back to the whole like perception of like packs owning a pub. Yeah. So talk, talk us. I mean, this is a really complex issue. And I think we did a really massive full circle when we started discussing it. Yeah. What what prompted it was funnily enough, um, because it's so funny. It's like they're like at the end of the day, there is like really it's very straightforward, right? Yeah. But you can overcomplicate it if you want. And the thing that even prompted us to even think about it was the fact that we go, hey, we're doing this podcast, where do we release it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Where does it go? Where does it go? Because in your mind, you're like, well, of course it goes on the feed, on the PAX feed.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But then me and Varney were like, no, but if it's not, if it's not like a PAX thing that PAX own, it shouldn't be there. It should be its own thing. Yeah. But then it was like, well, hang on, no, but PAX is a partner and he's gonna own it. And why are we trying to like why would you want to disguise that? Like who who benefits from that, right? Like I'll be honest, in my mind, without having thought about it, the thing that kind of freaked me out a little bit was going, how was how would our clients at PAX feel about us doing this?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because uh I only think that way because I'm so like wired by all the years I've spent as a wholesale supplier. Sure. And how yeah, the conflict of interest stuff. Yeah, that like that's always this consideration. But then at the same time, it's also not, right? Like, you know, if you're a coffee roaster, you're gonna open a new cafe and it happens to be near someone you sell coffee to, like, you'd you'd have a discussion. You have to have a discussion. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think you know, short of opening a Middle Eastern restaurant in Brunswick East, which might upset our mate, our mate's uh Joe. He probably would actually just be like, hey, it sounds good. Do you want some advice? I'll come back to the menu. Yeah, I could probably write a better menu. Uh I think again, like when uh short of doing that, I mean, I already own Reed House. Exactly. And no one's and we've heard that before even starting PAX, and no one's even mentioned that being an issue.
SPEAKER_04:No, well, because it's not, it's a values add exactly track down.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think you know, you and I, when we set up PAX originally, the idea was always that we're going to have two arms of PAX. Yeah. One is consulting, which we built first, obviously. Yeah. And the other is a group of venues or group loosely, loose term of projects we wanted to get off the ground ourselves, and we have a few between us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:The projects that we that on that side, it was both though, right? It was like projects that we want to start from scratch and and because you're like a venue guy. Yeah. Like I've I want to do a skate school and have like a bunch of other ideas around that stuff. So there's always going to be that. But then there was also what we've learned is there's all these opportunities working with people where they don't necessarily have the cash, but the brand has a lot of potential.
SPEAKER_03:And it helped.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And they're like, hey, can you just be a partner?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And help us get this where it needs to be.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, as you know, like we've already had started to loosely have those conversations with people. And for us, it's like, well, now we have an actual vehicle for it. Yeah, exactly. Um, whereas before it was just like you and I separately people hit you up, hit you up. Yeah, guess what? Sure. Yeah. Um, and I think the exciting thing for us is that the support we give our clients through our leadership team at PAX can be given to our GMs and VMs and head chefs in our own venues as well. Yeah. And it also opens up, as you said, it it opens up the potential for us to collaborate even more with our clients. Yeah, 100%. Um, and all the discussions we're having with partners, whether it's tech or food or whatever else, is like it opens up more potential to help each other. Yeah. Right. Which is, you know, everything I've done in the past through Worksmith and Grow, like just fits the MO. And and to me, I don't want to hide the fact that I want to own venues moving forward. Um, and I don't see why I can't help people through consultancy and own some venues as well. And I think, and there's some people be like, oh, you've got to be careful. Like, yeah, we do. And we have and the biggest thing, as you said, communication. Transparency. As long as long as people know, yeah. They're gonna like our clients are gonna find out from a you know a broadsheet article, right? They're gonna know before this pod even gets released, obviously. Um, and and what's going on. And as long as um we're transparent, it it's fine. I think for us, and I said this to you the other day when we're talking through it, it's like anyone that has a big issue with it probably aren't gonna be our client anyway. Yeah. Because there's a a barrier to working with some people that don't like the potential collaboration industry that do want to have the classic old school closed door mentality, which is fine, like each to their own. I'm never gonna judge people for that, but I don't think they're gonna be our clients anyway.
SPEAKER_04:No, I think that's that's the bit you hit on that really drove it home for me is that like there is always gonna be that conventional wisdom of like, what about the conflict of interest?
SPEAKER_03:Oh man, like when we opened Worksmith, like side quest again, but I was like, I was baffled for like I had literally half a dozen, maybe ten people, say to me, There's no way you're gonna get me working out of a your workspace because of IP. Yeah. And I I just like I let them have their peace, and then I just like laughed. I was like, what IP, bro? Yeah, like you own a venue, yeah. Like, like we all do amazing things in venues, but IP is such a funny term to use. Totally. Totally if you don't want people hearing your conversations. There's a meeting room and a call booth and that stuff. You can go do those in private, but just that mentality of like, well, I couldn't possibly sit next to someone and like proofs in the pudding, like the people that worked out of that space. We had one table that was at one stage, one table was Archie Rose Gin and Whiskey Now, MGC, Melbourne Gin Company, sitting next to each other, right, and then a whole team of four pillars. Yeah, gotcha. Literally within a 10 meter radius. Yeah. Well, but there's that's like it's a group of people that just understand we're all after it.
SPEAKER_04:Like even more widely than your experience, right? Look at so many other big movements that have happened. Look at punk, look at hip hop. Sure. Yeah. Could any of those genres have grown to what they were if the supporting were having an us against them mentality? Yeah. No fucking chance. And I think the people in the modern era that have that conflict of interest, take my IP, like this is a really harsh statement, but most of those people fall into one of two categories, right? They're either really old or they're really inexperienced.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, and or both, right? And it's like, okay, that's cool, right? But I think the thing that you said that really nailed it for me is that like there's people that we will be working with that just get it. Yeah. And there's people that don't get it that we probably wouldn't be working with. And it just that's okay.
SPEAKER_03:And I think when people gave me that feedback, they felt like they were doing me a favor to be like, well, this is just not gonna work. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I mean, we had the place for seven years. Yeah, totally. It worked, yeah. And that and with people that had the understanding of like the rising tide mentality. Exactly. Um, and you know, back on the spirit tangent, like I heard one of the things I heard really early on in relation to this was Australian spirits only make up eight percent of consumption in Australia. So they're like, well, if we're not working together, what the fuck are we doing? Like, yeah, oh my god, to double it would be crazy, and that would only get us to 16%. Yeah, yeah. Like we need to work together, there's no other option.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, wow. Wow, yeah, what a great example. Open the door. Yeah, rising tide.
SPEAKER_04:So that it's great, yeah. And I just think like um it's a it's just novel, man, you know, like I just think there's a a new way of doing business and any of that zero-sum game, you know, it's about protecting my own personal, individual, you know, capital and all that. It's just there's just no room for that anymore.
SPEAKER_03:Nah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, and it's just as as you know, Gen Z come through and take over the world, it is like really obvious what matters the most to that segment that has the highest density in society and it's its purpose, its impact, its meaning, it's all those things. So I feel like that move is definitely in that vein, and it was really good having that discussion this week.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, great. Let's wrap it.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Did we miss anything?
SPEAKER_03:I think you covered everything. Oh, you you told me your your idea that I actually liked. Oh, yeah, I know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Was that the idea? The big idea.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I like that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, all right.
SPEAKER_03:Everything I've released is done.
SPEAKER_04:Smash it. All right, see us next week. Nice. Thanks, man. Last word. Thank you so much for listening to the Pinny Cast. We're super stoked to be bringing this series to you. So we hope you found it informative. We would love to hear from you. We'd love some feedback. Any thoughts you have around how we're going about it would be really, really welcomed. So hit us up at hello at hacks.melbourne and we will definitely be all ears and we'll respond. Lastly, just want to say massive thanks again to industry kitchens, to poster boy media. Without them, none of this would be possible. So, yeah, massive, massive shout out. We're really looking forward to bringing you more. Cheers.