Whatever happened to malt vinegar?

In this third instalment of the Pinnicast, we dive into the frantic final week of preparations before the Fitzroy Pinnacle officially opens its doors. Michael shares the strategic advantages of a recorded handover with the previous owner and how AI tools are helping him organize the minutiae of the business. The duo discusses the critical signing of "weapon chef" Scott Eddington, and Jamie from Reed House, both of whom bring immense operational expertise and community-building skills to the venue. From securing 50% of the capital raise to debating the nostalgic return of malt vinegar bottles on tables, this conversation covers the high-stakes logistics and creative touches required to launch a successful local. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of community-led hospitality, investor relations, and operational excellence.

Join us on this journey from idea to opening the doors to The Pinnacle.

Check out Michael's Pinnacle deck here. 

For more information on The Pinnacle, visit thepinnacle.melbourneFor more information on PAX, pax.melbourne 
Follow @pax.melbourne on social media.

Podcast produced by Posterboy Media.

PAX acknowledges the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung people as the traditional custodians of the land on which we operate. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging and to all First Nations People.

Chapters

• 4:13 The easiest recorded handover process
• 6:34 Reaching 50% of the capital
• 11:27 Securing Scott Eddington as chef
• 23:22 The dream of hand-pump beers
• 32:39 Bringing back nostalgic vinegar bottles

Transcript

0:00 Leon: What's up everyone, it's Leon here. Welcome to episode 3. Holy crap. That means there's seven days to go before the pub is officially open. Today we are talking about handover documents, some key personnel signings, and vinegar. Yep, malt vinegar. Trust me, it works. Hope you enjoyed the episode and send us an email if you want any of the documents that we reference in the show: hello@paxs.melbourne. Here comes episode three.
0:45 Leon: Ready to roll. I don't even remember what the hell we talked about last week. It... I can't believe that was still like another week.
0:54 Michael: Another week ago.
0:56 Leon: Another week ago. It felt like months. So, yeah, I don't know how we're tracking for continuity with these episodes, but I just think, hey, whatever, we're keeping on going deep into the topics that a lot of people wouldn't, and this is going to be informative and useful information for anyone opening a business. So let's just keep doing that.
1:13 Michael: Yeah, well, I think opening a business isn't formulaic, as much as we'd like it to be.
1:19 Leon: Yeah, totally.
1:20 Michael: We try and make it formulaic, but inevitably in a week a lot can change and shift and move.
1:25 Leon: I know a guy who worked in corporate for McDonald's, and you would assume that's about as formulaic as it goes. Nightmare. They're always a nightmare, every time, every shop. It's nightmare. That was just his opinion, by the way, so McDonald's, please don't sue me for saying that. Hey, so let's start at the top, man. Give us an overview of the week that was. What happened in your... in your life of trying to get this pub open?
1:52 Michael: A lot's happened, from investor talks to doing a bit of a handover with the current owner, starting that process.
2:02 Leon: Sorry to interrupt you. There might be the odd person who just, like, starts listening to this series from this episode. Sure. 30-second recap: what are we doing?
2:13 Michael: We're opening a pub.
2:14 Leon: Yeah, which pub?
2:15 Michael: The Fitzroy Pinnacle.
2:17 Leon: Awesome.
2:18 Michael: In North Fitzroy.
2:19 Leon: Great. And this is the... and the whole point of this series is to chronicle and document everything that happens in your life, yeah, related to the pub, preferably.
2:30 Michael: Yeah. Yeah, let's not get into my life. That'd get long and complicated. But, yeah, and essentially looking at running for eight weeks. So we are early December right now. We've already recorded two weeks' worth of episodes, and we'll do another five, six that lead us right into the opening of the pub. And hopefully this podcast can end with the pub being open, with the final episode of... we've been open for a few weeks and this is where it's at.
3:05 Leon: That would be so nice.
3:06 Michael: That'd be so nice.
3:07 Leon: Yeah. But basically the conceptual purpose of this whole series is just to be able to give people a fly-on-the-wall type exposure into how to open a venue.
3:18 Michael: Or how not to in some instances. Hopefully... well, not hopefully. There will be things that we talk about where we're like, "Oh, we could have done that better," and "Yeah, this popped up and we didn't anticipate that," or whatever else.
3:33 Leon: I'm just... I just can't wait for the... well, I shouldn't say that because, you know, we're doing this together. But I can't wait for that first week when we press record and you're just like, "I don't want to fucking do this episode."
3:45 Michael: It'll probably be the week before Christmas, when I'll be like, "No one answers my calls. I thought I was really prepared and now I'm going to be so behind the eight ball." Yeah, exactly. "What am I going to do in January? I'm not going to have a holiday."
3:57 Leon: Ready to up the cortisol. Yeah, exactly. All right, so... so, sorry, back to the overview. Tell us what happened last week.
4:04 Michael: Yes, so in the last week, sat down with the current owner and started the handover process.
4:10 Leon: Cool. Very nice of them.
4:13 Michael: Yeah, they're honestly... I can't speak highly enough. Like, I've done a lot... quite a few of these handover processes with existing businesses that we go into, and this is by far been the easiest... quote-unquote "easiest" so far, where he's just been totally open. He picks up his phone whenever I need a chat.
4:33 Leon: Very accommodating.
4:34 Michael: Really accommodating. I'll be like, "Hey, tomorrow can I show my builder through before you open?" He's like, "Yeah, what time do you need to be there?" He's been really good. And then when we did this first handover session, I literally recorded it, voice memoed it, so I could capture everything. And he just spoke for an hour and 15 minutes.
4:54 Leon: Wow.
4:55 Michael: And off the back of that, I transcribed the notes, threw them into AI, got a really bloody good checklist and information on the minutiae of running that business.
5:07 Leon: Awesome.
5:08 Michael: Everything from, you know, who they use for gas for the kegs, right through to who services the units, to wastage... like, all that stuff.
5:19 Leon: What a legend. It sounds like also the sort of guy that's going to, if, you know, a couple weeks in, if you needed to call him to ask a question, he's going to pick up that phone.
5:28 Michael: I mean, I think it's the first thing he said. He said, "I'm not leaving that neighborhood. I'm still going to be around." He's going to go full dad mode because he's got a young... young child. And he's just like, "Yeah, just call me. I'll come down."
5:40 Leon: Oh, true. True. That's awesome. Okay, so handover's started. That's awesome. And what a also great idea to do that as early as this. I don't think a lot of people would... would think about that.
5:52 Michael: Well, it's the first proper handover I've ever done with a previous business owner. Like, I've told stories before of, like, taking over Bar Liberty and what a train wreck that was and, yeah, basically the impossibility of getting on to people. So, yeah, it's great to do it early so then if there's any of those things I haven't thought of that pop up in that conversation, at least it's noted and at least it's a known thing.
6:17 Leon: Yeah, for sure. Okay, what next?
6:21 Michael: Investor chats.
6:23 Leon: Yeah, so how much have you raised? Like, obviously don't say exactly... individual.
6:29 Michael: Individual amount.
6:30 Leon: But how far off the total capital raise are you?
6:34 Michael: We're 50% there.
6:36 Leon: 50% there. Great.
6:37 Michael: Yeah. And I say 50% there on my... sort of on our top number.
6:42 Leon: Yeah, I hear you. On the best-case scenario.
6:45 Michael: Yeah, but the way I've built it is like, okay, I need this amount of money to do this project, but within that budget is... it's workable if we get less. So, you know, that... I was saying this to Kate, our CFO, yesterday. I was like, "It includes GST." I was like, "Well, we're going to get that back." So that's 20 grand worth of GST there, a bit more. I had GST on the purchase of the business. There is no GST on the purchase of the business.
7:13 Leon: Right.
7:14 Michael: And there's more fat in it in different areas as well. So if it... if we raise, I was working out yesterday, if we raise about 70% of what we saying we need, we can still open.
7:27 Leon: 70% of best-case scenario. Yeah, but also in the grand scheme of things, if we raise zero dollars, we'd be opening.
7:34 Michael: Of course. Yeah, we'd just be doing less.
7:36 Leon: Exactly. And it'd be just us pouring beers every... exactly. And it'd be me painting, not a painter. Exactly. My painting is not great, by the way.
7:46 Michael: My painting is not great, by the way.
7:48 Leon: That's like one end of the spectrum. That's as bootstrap as it gets. And we're talking about then there's the... the best-case scenario. So we're... so 50% towards the best-case scenario is where we're at.
8:00 Michael: Great.
8:01 Leon: And how do you feel about raising the rest?
8:03 Michael: I feel with some other things we're going to talk about in today's podcast, with what's dropped this week, I'm feeling better and better about it. Because... well, I mean, good segue. Like, we've secured our weapon chef to partner on the business and run the food program, and then also the front-of-house person to lead that. Like, which we'll get into who they are. But knowing that those are known now, and we've got the first two investors that are really great people to have around the business, it's all heading in the right direction.
8:39 Leon: So far.
8:40 Michael: So far. Yeah. So for us to then go to other investors, it's just a much more known investment rather than being like, "Oh, we've got no investors yet, and here's the idea of what the food could look like and the front and all that sort of stuff." Well, here's the people now. Come in and join the party.
9:00 Leon: Good, yeah, you're right. It is a good segue. So, like, last week when we were talking about personnel, we were talking about chef and how that was all going. Do you want to just recap that real quick? Right. Like, we were both really like optimistic and hanging to get Scott Edgington.
9:16 Michael: Yeah.
9:17 Leon: And we were like, "Man, so much so that we hadn't even really initiated chats with the rest of the people on that hit list."
9:24 Michael: Yeah.
9:25 Leon: But it was the big "if" was always going to be, "Okay, we had the first chat. It was super aligned, like crazy aligned."
9:33 Michael: I mean, I think I might have said it in the podcast, that he, before I even showed him the brief, he told me the brief.
9:40 Leon: Yeah, exactly.
9:41 Michael: And I was like, "Well, how funny was it even in the meeting when you were going through the deck, and then it's like, 'Okay,' and he asked a question, 'Okay, so what about...' I can't remember what slide it was, but you're like, 'Ah, click.' And then you clicked to the next slide and it was that. Everything he wanted to know." So I mean, the alignment was massive. But our concerns last week were that Scott's so deep at Arnold's and it's that classic, you know, founder who's in the first year who just can't... it's hard to see the forest through the trees. And even if a great opportunity comes along, you just can't, you know, get enough perspective to make a logical decision. And, look, I guess our prediction was that Scott was going to call me back and say that, and say, "Hey, love the opportunity, but unfortunately it's just not good timing for me." And that's exactly what happened.
10:30 Michael: That is exactly what happened.
10:32 Leon: It's literally what happened, right? So he... it was almost like the next day or it might have been an hour after we recorded. It actually was. And he rang me, I was like, "Fuck, that's kind of on cue." And said exactly that. And I can't remember whether I said it in the podcast or not, but my response to that was going to be, "Hey, at least give me one more chance to convince you. And then if it's still not clicking, then fine, don't sweat it." And so I said that to him and he jumped at that chance. He was like, "Yeah, man, I'd value that, you know. Come out and see me." So went out and saw him at Arnold's on Monday and just laid it all out, you know, based on, you know, everything I could see and why I thought it worked and just tried to paint the really clear, logical picture. And yesterday or the day before he...
11:24 Michael: Day before.
11:25 Leon: ...sent me a text message with two words in it.
11:27 Michael: "I'm in."
11:29 Leon: And then you were in the middle of something. You called me. He's like, "Can you..." you were like, "Just call Scott. He texted me 'I'm in'." I was like...
11:39 Michael: Then you probably would have heard the exhale.
11:42 Leon: Because, yeah, I heard it from Bendigo. Which I think speaks volumes to the guy he is and how much we want him on the project, of being like, "I really want..." I honestly, to be honest, I thought he wasn't going to do it.
11:59 Michael: Right.
12:00 Leon: And that's just my brain pre-preparing for the "no" to then be better... feel better about it. So when it was like "Yes," I was like... I just overshot my happiness for it and I was like, "Yes!" It's huge. I was in the paint shop getting samples for the... for the pub when you called, and, yeah, the lady helping me with the color probably heard most of the conversation, and turned... went from being a normal paint transaction to her being like, "Oh, so what are you opening?"
12:35 Michael: Awesome.
12:36 Leon: And how was the phone call with Scott?
12:38 Michael: Yeah, it was good. It was really good. And I mentioned a couple things that he told us, which I won't talk about here, but that he wanted to do and have in place before making that call. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he actually those things weren't quite in place but he he's like, "Well, I just I want to do it and I need to find a way to to adjust those things." And, yeah, and now he's got us to help.
13:06 Leon: Exactly. And we're stoked to help in that space anyway. So, yeah, I'm excited to have him lead that food program and just knowing that we're on the same page with the brief and knowing the food will be great and, yeah, it's awesome.
13:21 Michael: I think we don't need to go into any details in terms of like Scott's personal life but I just... or his personal situation, but the one thing I would say that I think is kind of cool is that like just as a... as someone who's known Scott for ages and is a good mate, it's like, one thing I feel really good about is that fact that him taking this on means he gets our help. You know, because one of the things I sort had said to him is like, "Man, if you go get a job, you know, in the role that he should be in in his... his calling in life is to be in, you know, an executive capacity of some sort. He could do any part of that, but whichever one he chooses and it's like if you go do that, you're going to work for a group or a company that is not going to embrace your restaurant as a side hustle. They're not going to see it as, 'Oh, yeah, that's a cool thing that you're doing. We want to support you.' They're going to just see it as something that gets in the way."
14:13 Michael: It'll be annoying for them.
14:14 Leon: Whereas we're actually like, "No, no, we're embracing it to the point where we'll help you with your bookkeeping and whatever you need." Yeah, like... so no, I feel really good about that.
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16:09 Leon: Okay, and then front-of-house.
16:11 Michael: Front-of-house. So for the last couple of months I've been chatting with... well, I don't think we've touched on this podcast yet, but that I'm a co-owner of Reed House and helped Mark and Beck open the venue. I don't operate it day-to-day. They... they do a great job of that. But, yeah, had been discussing with Jamie, who's the 2IC front-of-house there, about her future and how she wanted to develop. And she approached me about it and really liked what we were doing at Paxs and always sort of, you know, always saw her as a potential person who could be a future Paxs person from an operations perspective. And now with the timing of the pub, I kind of see that that Paxs ops person can become a reality and her first project is run the pub and get it up and going. And the idea of having someone that we know and trust and that has such a great presence on the floor and in the way we're pitching the pub around that real classic community-style pub that we want to build rapport and all this sort of thing, like she's the right person to do that.
17:19 Leon: Is it a bit close to home? Like, is there any beef with Mark or Beck?
17:23 Michael: Big beef with Mark and Beck. We're going to fight to the death for Jamie. No, no, it's actually something that the guys spoke to me about early doors...
17:33 Leon: Mark and Beck you mean.
17:34 Michael: ...Yeah, because they know there's a ceiling at Reed.
17:37 Leon: Sure.
17:38 Michael: And the whole thing is, like, well, if Reed doesn't expand, then we'd probably lose a couple people, which is very natural with people that want to grow in small business. And the owners work in the business. So she's done such a great job over a year of being there, and Reed will go into the next evolution of that team and what that looks like and actually presents a bit of an opportunity to look at that sort of skills matrix across the team front-of-house and then understanding who we're plugging in for those roles rather than just rehiring the same thing again.
18:13 Leon: It's great. So, okay, so raised a bunch of money, found a chef, found a VM...
18:22 Michael: VM?
18:23 Leon: ...got some paint samples, got a good handover from the owner. That's a... that is already a big week. What... anything else you throw in there?
18:33 Michael: I mean more in the sort of build space because it is a minimal build we're doing. But I met with Ryan Beetle from Andy Ryan, who I've used for pretty much all my fit-outs, who are going to do the bar top and the bench seat and that sort of stuff. So he came in and measured up. Pretty... this is the most straightforward thing he's done for... for us. Probably a bit of an annoying project to be honest, considering the size the stuff they do now. Like, they did the Three Horses fit-out, they did Caretakers, Reed House, Capitano, Harriet... yeah, they've done some awesome... awesome spaces. And so, yeah, the bar top and bench seat is probably a bit of an annoyance. So sorry Ryan if you're listening to this but appreciate your work man.
19:27 Leon: Any... out of all the stuff that's happened last week, like, was there a biggest kind of conflict or anything that you're most stressed about?
19:37 Michael: I mean a week ago exactly, or a bit more, I was not stressed, but I was like, "Fuck, there's a lot... still a lot of those things to drop." But now that we've literally had such a great week of some, you know, half the investment dropping, Scott, Jamie, handover... it's starting to feel like there's less... again, it's like there's more known-knowns now. And, yeah, I'm not stressed about it. The only thing I'm stressed about is that there isn't a stress this week. It's like, where is it coming from?
20:12 Leon: Yeah, it's like, where is it coming from? When does it come? Someone said yesterday, I was like, "I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop." It's going to drop somewhere. I said to you, I said to you, yeah. Yeah, it's all feeling pretty good. But, you know, it's December 4 or whatever it is today...
20:31 Michael: Third.
20:32 Leon: ...I'm sure it'll come. It always does.
20:34 Michael: The universe is just, like, sitting there biding its time with a smirk on its face.
20:39 Leon: "Yeah, you keep being happy Michael. I'm coming. I'm coming." Okay. Anything from a... like, spoiler alert perspective, can you share anything product-wise, menu-wise that people can kind of... I don't know, have you thought about anything that you think, "Yeah, that's definitely happening"?
20:58 Michael: Well, not from a food perspective because we'll work on that with Scott. I think, like, from a booze perspective, I've started writing the beer list, which is really exciting for me.
21:10 Leon: Cool. Cool. What's on it?
21:12 Michael: Can you... some pretty classics. Like, there's this fight whether we have, like, Carlton Draught on.
21:18 Leon: Oh, surely you have to.
21:20 Michael: It's on. It's definitely on.
21:23 Leon: Wait, who was arguing to not put it on?
21:26 Michael: Oh, come on, bro. Tim. Classic. No, but he knows it's needed but he just won't drink it.
21:32 Leon: Oh, that's fine. Yeah.
21:33 Michael: Which is fine.
21:34 Leon: No one's going to force you to drink it.
21:35 Michael: It's like, I know that we have to have an IPA on, and I don't like IPAs though. So it's... it's got to go on.
21:42 Leon: Exactly.
21:43 Michael: I had a really great meeting actually a bit more than a week ago, but we didn't talk about, was with an old mate, Ashley Huntington, from Two Metre Tall down in Tassie.
21:54 Leon: Oh, yeah, right.
21:55 Michael: And, yeah, I've worked with him for so many years and love his products, and definitely going to put one of his beers on tap. That'll be like our wildest drink on, for sure. Like, so much... like 98% of what we do in the drink space is going to be really accessible, from a product point of view. It's not going to be polarizing or anything, but then there's going to be a couple... a bit of a sprinkling on the booze list that'll be like really interesting stuff, and we don't need to move crazy amounts of it, but I just want our team to love those products and be able to sell them to customers that wouldn't normally try them. I don't want to be like an evangelical place and be like, "Well, we're going to tell you what is great." That's not what the pub's for. It's more about discovery.
22:45 Leon: So, cool.
22:46 Michael: So the... the regular that comes in twice a week and drinks the same beer, it's like, yeah, that's fine. But the one that comes in and, like, always wants to try something different and is a bit flexible, it's like, they're the people you, like, slowly slide, you know, Ashley's beers in front of and win them over, and then you can expand from there. And they can, "Fuck, I'm so glad you gave me a taste of that. That's awesome." And I really want to give our team license to do that, like give tastes and talk about it and that sort of thing. So with... the initial idea with Ashley was I wanted to do an old-school hand pump.
23:22 Leon: Oh, that would have been so dope.
23:24 Michael: Yeah, but his worry, and mine as well after speaking to him, is just the volume piece, and there's a lot of management that needs to happen with those.
23:32 Leon: For the pump?
23:33 Michael: ...because it's a little corny keg and you have to degas... like, a bit of management with... with not in the right hands could go a bit awry. So we're going to start with a normal tap and see how that goes with volume, and then come winter into spring next year, we could...
23:51 Leon: Yeah, there's a place for it.
23:52 Michael: ...Yeah, and we've mapped out where it could sit when it... if we do action the hand pump.
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25:11 Leon: Hey, question without notice. Like, when you're planning the menu and everything, how are you... or how are you planning to validate your assumptions from a product-market fit perspective? Overall or like the really nitty-gritty stuff as well? I mean everything, right? Like, you know, if you think about it, we're kind of going, "Right, we... this is what the deal is, this is how we see it, it's stewardship, it's you know just make it a good pub again, don't do anything crazy." But we haven't tested whether that's what the public want or not. I mean don't get me wrong, we have obviously done research and kind of validated it somewhat from the perspective of like, "Okay, well, we know what is working in the area and surrounds and in that category." So that's all that's all fine. But it's not like we've gone and, like, run a focus group that creates the Toyota Prius.
26:07 Michael: No.
26:08 Leon: So how would you... do you think we need to do that? Are we going to do that?
26:11 Michael: I think, I mean it'd be great if we did it obviously, like there's no downside.
26:17 Leon: Yeah.
26:18 Michael: But with saying that, a pub is a quite a unique style of venue that the parameters are kind of there, and there's obviously variations on those parameters with what... what people put together. But just from say let's think about the beer list specifically. Like there's 10 taps and currently they don't have Carlton Draught and they don't have any of those big beers. The biggest beer they have is Guinness, which we'll be keeping. But it's kind of just like the known-knowns around like, okay, what's... what do we know is pouring well a lot of in other pubs, right?
26:56 Leon: Yeah.
26:57 Michael: Not that we copy, but we need to have something that fills that bucket, right? Right now, hazies are like the thing.
27:04 Leon: Yeah.
27:05 Michael: Are they my sort of thing? No. Again like the IPA idea, it's just like, well, I don't necessarily need to love it to put it on because I know it'll sell. Same with Guinness, like that is the beer of the moment. So it's validating just through the knowledge of what's happening, but it's not hard data.
27:26 Leon: But we let's go a step further. Like you know what I think would be great to do is like tonight, let's join the local Facebook group.
27:35 Michael: Yeah, join the local Facebook group.
27:37 Leon: ...and try and get a voice... or try and get a sense of what the voice of the community is saying. But also what would be dope is to announce it there that hey we're taking over this and here's what we're planning to do, and throw in... throw open the comments what you think, but also here's a survey if you want to fill it out. But also then follow that up with a "hey let's do a couple of focus groups" and just be like maybe after we get the keys or something be like, "Come in, beer, pizza on us, and let's just ask them a shitload of questions around how do you dine, when do you like to go out, how much do you roughly spend?" You know what I mean? Like just... just some broad questions and try to get a sense of what their needs are, not what their wants are.
28:22 Michael: I think the Facebook group thing is a good idea because it homes in on a specific demographic for sure that are on those groups, and they'd certainly be the demographic we want in anyway. But, yeah, I think starting with the survey would be awesome.
28:40 Leon: Because I think it's just such a good... like just say for instance, you know, you go on the Facebook group and you go, "Oh man, there's like all these people that... one of the common threads that we're seeing on there is people having their pot plants stolen from out the front of their house."
28:54 Michael: Oh yeah.
28:55 Leon: We could just be like, "All right, when we're opening and in the first week, we're going to give free pot plants away to the locals because there's a nursery next door."
29:04 Michael: Wait, is that your idea for the week? No, but fucking hey, maybe... maybe I'll save my other idea for next week.
29:12 Michael: No, no, give me this week's idea.
29:14 Leon: All right. Jump into this week's idea. So first recap from last week...
29:19 Michael: What was my idea again?
29:21 Leon: Important because you know it's going to be done.
29:24 Michael: Is advertising local businesses on the pot... on the pot glasses and pot glasses.
29:32 Leon: So where did you land with that?
29:34 Michael: I really thought I was going to... going to get a chance to be like, "This is absolutely no way this is going to work." But then after thinking about it for a couple of days, I was like, "This is really great." Like it fits the community pub aspect. I think we should really lean into the hospo side to... doesn't solely have to be hospo businesses, but it's really about creating... like trying to nestle into that community in a nice way. And there's venues in that little pocket that like we love, for sure. Campbell at Public Wine Shop, Standing Room Coffee, Loafer Bread, that chicken shop... the uh... what's it called? Oh... Super Rooster.
30:17 Leon: Super Rooster.
30:18 Michael: Super Rooster. So good.
30:19 Leon: Or something like that. It's been there for so long and it's so elite. Exactly. And just classic things like that. It's like I'm just trying to think of how much it's going to cost to print heaps of different brands now but I need to get it done by the end of the year. Oh true. Okay. ...so it's in line for printing in January. So I think Tim's going to mock up some glassware just on a deck on like on a one-pager so then we can hit up the people we know at least to start with so it's quick and be like, "Hey, all you need to do is provide your logo." That's it. So we'll throw in a pot glass, that's pretty cool.
30:57 Leon: Community glass.
30:58 Michael: Community glass. Not quite the same ring as community cup, but close.
31:04 Leon: All right, so idea for this week.
31:07 Michael: Yeah.
31:08 Leon: All right, so it's not quite on the same scale as the glasses, but it's very nostalgic. So let me ask you, I feel like vinegar has had a really big fall from grace when it comes to vinegar on hot chips.
31:24 Michael: Oh.
31:25 Leon: When did that stop? Vinegar on hot chips used to be as important as tomato sauce and salt.
31:32 Michael: It was the choice, right? Vinegar.
31:34 Leon: ...but it was always there, right? Every time you get... you get hot chips, there was a little bottle of vinegar to douse it in if you wanted. Malt vinegar. Malt vinegar. Where did that go?
31:45 Michael: I mean, first question, where did fish and chip shop go? Fish and chip shops go, because there's a lot less, I reckon. Surely.
31:54 Leon: I don't know about... are you eating as much fish and chips as what you used to?
31:57 Michael: Am I? Yeah, I am.
31:58 Leon: More probably with the kids.
31:59 Michael: ...there you go.
32:00 Leon: Well we do it every Friday night. But I think there's... I mean it's less about density necessarily, it's just more about the fact that in that... in that echelon of business, there isn't a lot of room for saturation.
32:14 Michael: No.
32:15 Leon: You know, it's like most suburbs, especially out where we live, you're going to have what maybe three options if you're lucky. And there's only one of them that's really consistently good. And so everyone just goes there. You know, so anyway tangent back to my idea. I think we should bring the vinegar on the hot chips back. So let's just put a little vinegar bottle on every table. Along with the sauce.
32:39 Michael: A bottle on the tables.
32:41 Leon: Yeah, so the caddy has tomato sauce, vinegar, salt, pepper, cutlery. Because I mean I was a big fan of the vinegar on the chips and then I just one day forgot about it and it went away.
32:57 Michael: And it's just gone. I mean you lived in the UK for a bit so that would have just been everywhere. Yeah. And when I was in the UK same thing like I had vinegar on chips because I was there. There's chicken salt.
33:12 Leon: Oh, chicken salt.
33:13 Michael: ...is there vinegar salt?
33:15 Leon: How are salt and vinegar chips... salt and vinegar. Well vinegar salt is just salt with vinegar powder. Yeah, that is a thing. No but I'm thinking just nostalgically like where my first association with the vinegar on the chips if I think back to my earliest memories of it, it would be at the swimming pool. Swimming pool kiosk. Yeah you get hot chips and then there's vinegar there and you put the vinegar on and it's like this is amazing, why doesn't everyone do this? But when I think about it as well I think about do you know the bottles I'm talking about?
33:46 Michael: Yes.
33:47 Leon: Those glass ones with the metal top.
33:49 Michael: ...and it's got a metal top that restricts the flow.
33:53 Leon: Yeah, yeah it's those. So you can really douse it on proper without it getting soggy you gotta really go for it to get it on. Let's bring that back.
34:02 Michael: I like it. Well I'll run it past our executive chef. Scott will be all over that.
34:09 Leon: Scott will be like, "It's already on the list."
34:12 Michael: "One step ahead of you. I've already ordered the bottles." Yeah, okay, that's cool. Without going too far you have the giant jar of pickled onions on the bar and pickled some places you go to pickled eggs.
34:26 Leon: Yeah, who's eating that? Right.
34:30 Michael: Well I'll tell you another one on the fish and... I think we're about to wrap this up so I can go on a quick tangent here but like the other thing that I've always thought about with the fish and chip shop like first question is if you think about the best fish and chips you've ever had, was it in a pub or at a fish and chip shop?
34:49 Leon: In Scotland.
34:50 Michael: Okay mine was in Victoria but I also ask the question, you know when you go into every single fish and chip shop, who the fuck is not getting the flake? There's always a menu with six different who is ordering the other fish?
35:05 Leon: I think this is a real Australian thing though because in the UK it's always cod is the main one. But the other ones that you're referring to do get ordered regularly.
35:15 Michael: Do they? In the UK.
35:16 Leon: Yeah, because people have a bit of a choice. You get asked like are you a cod person or a haddock person or a pike person?
35:21 Michael: Oh right, didn't realize that.
35:22 Leon: Whereas in Australia there's heaps of people that would be like eatin' sharks mate. Well that's what's the weird thing like no one would associate it with shark they just go flake whatever it's like yeah it's shark man.
35:34 Michael: It's delicious.
35:35 Leon: ...but who... like have either of you ever ordered the other fish?
35:39 Michael: Only at kind of quote-unquote fancy fish and chip shops.
35:43 Leon: Okay sure.
35:44 Michael: ...and it'd be grilled not fried.
35:46 Leon: ...when you fry, yeah there's something about flake that's so good. It's so good.
35:50 Michael: ...flake is good. It's the meat lovers, the meat lovers fish isn't it?
35:55 Leon: It's so good. Yeah flake is good. I tell you what you got to do, you know what you need to do, go to Eltham and go to the Eltham fish and chip shop on Dudley Street. It is elite. It is honestly it is not trying to be anything it's not, but it's run by these old Japanese guys that are just fucking consistent, the oil is clean, everything's at temp, it's fucking fast, it's consistent. Japanese, Japanese fish and chips.
36:20 Michael: Legends.
36:21 Leon: ...it kind of is. It's like an Australian vehicle with a Japanese engine. Tempura-batter.
36:28 Michael: ...the ops are Japanese, it's like German engineering, you just know it's going to be good.
36:34 Leon: Yeah and and the best thing is in the three years I've lived in Eltham I've gone there every Friday for fish and chips and I've never had anything more than just a nod. Doesn't know my name, doesn't give a shit, just it's just a nod when you come in and a nod when you go.
36:49 Michael: That was nowhere near us that has good fish and chips, so that's the closest. That's the spot.
36:53 Leon: All right we're talking shit now, let's wrap this up. Beautiful. Thanks guys.
36:58 Michael: Thanks.
36:59 Leon: Thank you so much for listening to the Pinnicast. We're super stoked to be bringing this series to you so we hope you found it informative. We would love to hear from you. We'd love some feedback, any thoughts you have around how we're going about it would be really, really welcomed. So hit us up at hello@paxs.melbourne and we will definitely be all ears and we'll respond. Lastly, just want to say a massive thanks again to Industry Kitchens, to Poster Boy Media. Without them, none of this would be possible. So, yeah, massive, massive shout-out. We're really looking forward to bringing you more. Cheers.