Go Pluck Yourself: The Actor’s Pursuit
Go Pluck Yourself! Because the Hollywood cavalry is not on its way to pluck you from obscurity like the proverbial claws of a claw machine. Only you are responsible for your little dent in this industry. No one is coming to pluck you out of the crowd — You have to pluck yourself.
Join actor Chris Gun as he chats to his creative pals about life as an actor navigating this wonderful industry.
These are the conversations that actors and filmmakers have between takes, between shoot dates, whilst waiting for their next gig. An insight into what life is really like for a creative on their way “up”.
This is Go Pluck Yourself - The Actor’s Pursuit
Presented by Chris Gun
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Go Pluck Yourself: The Actor’s Pursuit
Ep 9: Acting, Parenting & the Unexpected Weight of Grief with Benji Groenewegen
Trigger warning: This episode contains discussions of loss, mental health & alcoholism.
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This week I sat down with my good mate, the unbelievably talented and down-to-earth Benji Groenewegen. We kick off chatting about his upcoming films Into The Earth (dir. Lucy Campbell) and Liability (dir. David Daradan), and from there Benji shares some really sharp insights into acting. Things like keeping self-tapes simple, navigating an acting career as a father of two young boys, and the idea of “travelling light” so the work can actually breathe.
About halfway through, the chat shifts. Benji opens up about losing his brother, and we talk honestly about the unexpected weight of grief, the guilt of moving forward, and how those experiences shape both life and art.
It’s one of the most raw and generous conversations I’ve had on this podcast, and I’m hugely grateful to Benji for his honesty and courage in sharing it.
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🎵 Theme music by Nick Gun: soundcloud.com/nickgun
Hi everyone, my name's Benji Grenewegan and you should go pluck yourself.
SPEAKER_02:What's up guys? Welcome to Go Pluck Yourself, The Actors Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. Welcome back. I have a really interesting and special episode for you this week. Benji Gronawigan, local actor from Adelaide, he's spent a lot of time in Melbourne, 12 years in Melbourne. But he's back and he's doing some really amazing work here in Adelaide. He's a fantastic actor and just the best kind of person. He's so down to earth and friendly and lovely. And I've worked with him on a short film. No, not on a short film. It was a student film, a feature-length film, which we shot last year called what was it called? Planet Caravan. And it was a lot of fun to work with. Really promising, really amazing filmmakers that are definitely going to be making a big impact on this industry. Yeah, so it was really great to work with him on that. But we had a really, really insightful chat about filmmaking and acting and moving back to Adelaide to pursue acting here. And since he's moved back, he's really making some amazing work back in Adelaide here. He's got a couple of films being shown this year at the Adelaide Film Festival for the made in SA night. One of those is on the 20th of October at the Palace Nova, which I think is sold out. So if you've got a ticket to that already, make sure you check out his films. It's also showing at the Odeon Star in Semaphore on the 26th of October. So there's still tickets available for that. So make sure you get along to one of those nights and check out all the great films being shown at this year's Adelaide Film Festival for the Made in SA night. Yeah, so he's in a film called Into the Earth, directed by Lucy Campbell, as well as Liability, directed by David Daridon. And really excited to see those films. I can't wait to see uh Benji doing what he does best. Now I need to give you guys a really big trigger warning for this episode. We have a really beautiful chat about filmmaking and acting and everything for about the first 50 minutes, but about 50 minutes in, um we the the we start talking about something really serious. Um Benji's brother actually um passed away earlier this year, and uh it came up in conversation and we and we did spend the second half of the the the podcast just talking about that and and it ended up being a really a really lovely conversation um just talking about grief and continuing to work while you're going through something so tragic and horrible, but it gets pretty real, so I I do need to give a warning to you guys if you're not up for listening to a conversation like that, maybe tune out at about 50 minutes. I and I and I have run it by him and he feels very comfortable with sharing that. So my heart goes out to you, Benji. I and I think you're really brave for sharing that with me and um sharing this so publicly as well. So we're done for talking about it, and um, I'm of course I'm always here for you, man, if you need to talk about it anytime. Benji is a really talented actor, and he he has some really beautiful insights and has so much experience under his belt. I and and everybody that I talk to, when when Benji's name comes up in conversation, people get really excited. I I see him working with so many people, and he's just such a genuine and beautiful person, and um it was a real honor to have him on the show, and I cannot wait to work with him again. So enjoy the chat and I hope you learned something. Um be prepared for that second half. It it's pretty heavy, so yeah, just just a heads up, okay guys. Uh make sure you follow and subscribe uh and enjoy my chat with the amazing Benji Gronawigan. I think we're good. Uh this looks this you look very handsome, looking good with your glasses, look like a tool and you are.
SPEAKER_01:Is it is it hitting your uh your your beautiful jellyfish here?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, isn't it nice?
SPEAKER_01:It's so nice.
SPEAKER_02:It's uh it's a lantern modifier.
SPEAKER_01:Can you crank up crank up the I can. You don't I'm not saying you do, but it's it helps for your tapes.
SPEAKER_02:I mean I can I can I can change all the settings on my phone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I gotta do it at times. My setup is pretty shady.
SPEAKER_02:What's your setup?
SPEAKER_01:What is my setup? It usually involves me clearing the floor of stuff that I've thrown into my studio. Yeah, yeah. First step. My my ultimate goal is to have everything set up permanently, like this fancy tech that you this is not permanent, trust me.
SPEAKER_02:This is a scramble every time I do a record.
SPEAKER_01:It's like how you get this table in here. It's it's quite humble.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, these look at this. Whoa. They fold down. You can't see that in the video, but the sides fold down on both sides. It's amazing. So it sits up nicely on that wall and it's out of the way. You gotta work with what you've got when you're in a tiny room like this.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly right. What what do they say? As long as you can be seen, as long as you can be heard. That's the I agree. That's the thing.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I heard someone the other day, I don't I don't know where it was, but someone was bad mouthing ring lights. Yeah. And I'm like, man, shut up. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Is that because of the little the what it does with your eyes at the moment?
SPEAKER_02:Maybe, but I I just I just don't think people actually care. Yeah. I think people are just just quick to criticize your setup and be like, well, it doesn't quite count. You got a ring light. And you're like, you know what? What does that mean? I'm just lighting my face. Yeah. You don't need this shit.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's nice, it is nice. I would like a big well get one. I mean, they're they're fairly affordable. Are they? That looks expensive as.
SPEAKER_02:Nah. They're pretty cheap. I'll I'll I'll send you a link. Please. It's uh I've I've also got this thing over here, which is a um a big soft box. Oh yes. Yeah, so I use that for my self tapes, really. This this gives this is just kind of gives a nice soft effect for the whole room. Good for podcasts.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um So what light do you have?
SPEAKER_01:Do you have light? I've got not really. I've got my beautiful um just uh cold LED at the top of the room. Uh I've got I do have some natural light, which is what they always say, some some Western Western light, but it means if I miss doing a tape during the day and I've got to do it at night, oh yeah, basically.
SPEAKER_02:It's just a different vibe.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's screwed, so I'll have to cheat it cheat it with my SLR and make just bumper every year. And I've got just two crappy little USB powered LEDs like clampons.
SPEAKER_02:But the way you're describing it, so you sound like you think it's inadequate.
SPEAKER_01:I guess what it is for me is I'd like to be able to walk on a flicker switch and everything to be there ready to go.
SPEAKER_02:I know what you're doing. Have you got a a dedicated space?
SPEAKER_01:I do have a dedicated space.
SPEAKER_02:And is only used for self-tapes?
SPEAKER_01:Well, and dumping all my shit in when I get home.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean it's it's multi-purpose. It's multi-purpose as well.
SPEAKER_01:I it's that having the having the time to clean up the stuff, to do it and do the self-tape um at the same time. Yeah. Which is always a bit bit of a hassle. But once it's clean, it's great.
SPEAKER_02:It's great to have it so much room for activities.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Because I did want to talk about being a parent and like and being a parent and being an actor. Because it is hard. Yeah. And that thing of perfection and because I like to put time into tapes. Yeah. Like I want to make I want to make a good tape. And it takes a while for those ideas to bubble up, and you want to you want to have the time to play, and you want to have the time to experiment and uh and and and learn the lines or or play play with the lines and and dance around it. Sometimes I literally dance around it. Yeah. And uh, but it's so tricky when you have kids to do that because it ceases to be the most important part of human day. Yeah. So shout out to Jess for for you know um battling on through this. Um and I know she was speaking to only sort of just getting back into it. Yeah. But I had my first boy in um uh in during lockdown, yeah, during COVID 2020. So like and as a dad, I I felt like I'd lost my identity, like of of being able to act. And uh it's hard to say what was what was COVID, what was locked down, and what was becoming a dad.
SPEAKER_02:And yeah, yeah, there's a lot of factors involved there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just feeling agitated, like I just I just remember wanting to to do stuff and not just not being able to to do it because you know, you you were standing there with a with a boy trying to yeah, on your on your chest trying to get him to go to sleep and your mind's racing with things that you want you want to be doing and then battling that guilt of wanting to be present with your boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what's more important. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, I think you're I've I've been on set with you and I know how much you put into um being being there for your boys. I know you do, and even even when you messaged me just then uh when you're on your way here, and and I know how much you prioritize, you know, giving showing them the love that you feel for them and prioritizing them. And they're very lucky to have a dad like you. And you don't see it, that's good, man. And and the fact that you're able you've got such a good teammate with you back home with Ness. Yeah, Ness is a legend.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, look, she sometimes it's it's it's and it's been really difficult because yeah, sort of coming back around to to being able to do self-tapes. She's like, How long is this one gonna take? I'm like, Oh, I reckon I can bang it out in an hour.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like three hours later. Yeah. And she's like, Have you finished? I was like, I've I've finished, I've finished filming it, I just gotta I just gotta edit it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's an all-night occasion.
SPEAKER_01:It can be an all-night occasion, and I've got to get better at that. And yeah, Ness, bless her, like, for putting up with that. But yeah, the the resentment does build, like when you know, especially when it's uh it's not a payday, like it's yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I feel very lucky that I've got uh my Sonna's extremely supportive and and and yeah, we don't have kids to to sort of look after and and everything, but she's been amazing. But it it does help to have a a partner that's so supportive and yeah, even if it I'm sure it can be annoying.
SPEAKER_01:Well yeah, it's just it's just that once again it's being a parent is the is the the responsibility, the the foremost the paramount responsibility I have now. Of course. And I've got to let the the tapes fall away, yeah. But I have to be okay with that. But that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, it's just that my perception of them is maybe.
SPEAKER_02:Do you feel like you could have done it? Oh, if I if I had a bit more time, if I had to put a bit more into it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, again, you don't know. But maybe that's you don't know what the CD's looking for.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:So I could be doing half the work and still be getting the same result. Yeah. But it's all about the work up here that you feel like you need to do in order to get that.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think like a limitation like that can sort of force you to just say, okay, now it's done? Yeah. Because we could potentially, if we had unlimited time, we could be I mean, I've had tapes where I really, you know, it's a big gig and I've I've spent hours on it and just done so many takes because I'm like, it's it's I could do better, I could do something different, and fluff that bit. Sometimes it works in my favor, but sometimes I'm just like, what have I done for the last two hours, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, which is frustrating.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but sometimes, you know, sometimes life throws limitations at you and they can help with your with you with your work, I think, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think in that way it actually it has helped with my work because I do, I wouldn't say I throw it away more, but I I I'm much better at just getting it, getting it done.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and using the time that I do have, uh to the limited time that I do have just to do the best that I can within that time limit. So I think in that way it's it's helped me get out of my head so much and and plan for perfect take.
SPEAKER_02:I can I can relate to that for sure. I think some of the most recent self-tapes that I've done have been really rushed and not even in here.
SPEAKER_01:Just that's right, you did one overseas, didn't you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, in Nepal we did one on my phone and you know, in a hotel. And I Did you get that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:See? It's like this is a thing.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't have time to overthink it, you know. I think that can be that can work in your favour and yeah, because then you're messing around with getting the perfect lighting and all that crap, you know, just go back to basics and just you know, what's happening for this guy? What's happening for the character, you know? Just back to the basics. Just do the job, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Just fly the plane. Yeah, yeah. I think earlier on when I was a a a young and two, because I I s I started sort of well, I got my my first agent in in Melbourne. Yeah. And bless her, she was a great agent, but I we just weren't on a like a level, level playing field. Like I didn't get a lot of auditions. Yeah. And it's tricky when you're not getting a lot of auditions to not put like a lot of pressure on yourself to make it perfect. Yeah. Like when you're only getting them once every two months or something, and you do feel that pressure to to do the best possible job that you can. Um thankfully now auditions are for or for me personally, are they coming more frequently. Yeah. So inherently the pressure is I just I just I do have to just get them done quicker and I don't have to worry about them so much. Yeah. But it's really tricky when you when you're starting out and you're only getting them every now and again, which once again comes back to just getting runs on the board, practicing with legends like Nick Launchbury and yeah, the every week, every day if you can, um, of just um yeah, getting yourself in the frame and and working on stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think eventually it gets to the point where you're like, okay, like yes, I'm not guaranteed every gig. And so I I can't just prior I can't completely prioritize this. There are other things that I'm that's that are going on in my life that are also a priority. And so, and I think that kind of it offers you a bit of perspective to to sort of say to yourself, all right, I I don't need to be putting three hours into this self-tape. I I owe myself that time to to just get the job done and get out of there and send it off. Because it's just another in the end, it becomes just another audition. Yes. And I think you don't want to invest too much time into an audition because the more time you put into it, the the more invested you are emotionally into the gig. You know, oh I spent all this time doing this audition, and I wasn't even in the running, you know.
SPEAKER_01:So that's what it can come down to. Yeah, it can come down to the looks as we yeah. Yeah, there's so many things outside of your control. Why waste more effort than you need to?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I I really like that feeling. I really like knowing that like, look, they probably I'm probably too bald for this role. Yeah, you know, I'll do the audition, okay, and I'll do my best. It doesn't mean I'm not putting my best work into it, but I'm I'm trying not to invest too much of my time into it because it's just another audition. Yeah. And you send it off and it's done. Yeah. Forget about it, you know. Exactly. Unless they tell me how much it's worth, and then I'm like, I need that.
SPEAKER_01:Just see what you can get away with, I think. I think it was um Emily Joy, who's also come up on here before. Yeah, yeah. Reposted, reposted something. I was about to say, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Come on the show, Emily. I think she's followers. Yeah. Oh, does she? Agreed. I think so.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, Emily's lovely. She reposted a or shared a thing that was like, let's just see what I can get away with when you're feeling like imposter syndrome. Let's just let's just see what I can get away with. Like and empower yourself with with that. You know, not not doing the work, but let's see if I can do this in half an hour. Yeah. And what what I can get done. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, as a parent now, I don't have a choice but to do that. So and it and that often works in my favour. And also that feeds into how I've come to work on set now of travelling light and not being burdened by not having done enough work or feeling like you've never done enough work. I used to always think that. I used to always think that I hadn't done enough work because I hadn't researched far enough back into the past or something, or I hadn't, you know, looked up every object or or marked every line, and it was just doing my head in, like of that feeling of guilt of not feeling adequate enough to play the part because I hadn't done all that backstory work. Yeah. For whatever reason. So traveling light is something that I I love that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I love that um concept. Yeah. Traveling light.
SPEAKER_01:So it's not, it's it's certainly not mine. It's something that I got from a wonderful acting coach teacher, Jeff Seymour. Um he talks about traveling light and just having the basically distilling down all the things that all the other big teachers have done into the nine things that you need to figure out what you need in the scene.
SPEAKER_02:Can you remember any of those things?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I can. Um here we go. Uh, who are you? Uh who's the other person? Where where are you? What's happening in the scene? Uh what's happening right now, maybe. Here we go. Yeah, yeah. Um what's your relationship to the other person?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_01:What do you want? Big one. Even bigger, why do you want it? I think we're up to, I think we're up to nine. Um, and what are you willing to do to get it?
SPEAKER_02:Excellent.
SPEAKER_01:I think that I might be missing one or have replaced one, but that's the skin. That's the general vibe.
SPEAKER_02:We'll have to check the footage back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um we can look it up if you want, so we can get it right. But with those, I feel like with those nine things, you're pretty much right in.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's perfect. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And his thing is not writing it down as well, which is I think we've talked about this as well. Just sort of you because you don't mark your scripts up, do you? Yeah, neither do I, dude. That's because I'm lazy. Yeah, well, let's let's, you know, no, it's not. Okay, it's not because we're not we're we're we're lazy, no, it's because we're traveling live. Sure. Yeah. Um no, and I'm not saying that you you you can't do all that, but I think it for me personally, it just lightened that that load of the uh of having that guilt that I hadn't put enough work in because it's it always felt like I hadn't done enough.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's part of the imposter syndrome as well, isn't it? Yeah, I was talking to Lauren about this, and and we were talking about how you know I come to set or or when I'm doing a play or anything, and I look at other people's scripts and there it scribbles all over it, you know, and I'm going, oh my god. Oh god, and and then she'll look at my at someone like me who who uh you know who's got this perfectly clean script, and I'm like, and and she'll she'll get anxious because she's like, Oh my god, maybe I've done too much work, you know. So different methods, it's different methods, but I would encourage it. No, she didn't she didn't. Well she she went to classes, yeah. But I also wonder, like, when I see people with notes all over the script, I think like, well, what are you writing? Yeah, that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes I will do that. Like if there's something that sticks out in my mind, then I'm like, like if I'm going through it and I'll go, Oh, that's what I'm thinking here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Oh, and if I'm doing a play and a director's given me a note, I'll definitely mark that down. Yeah. Because I've had directors be like, You're gonna write that down. I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah. It definitely was. Has anyone got a pen? Yeah, literally. Chris never brings a pen to rehearsal. The worst. Don't hire me. Um come on, mate.
SPEAKER_01:Come on. Um traveling light. Traveling light.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I really love that because I've worked, I've worked with you on set, I've worked with you on on uh Planet Caravan, which hasn't come out yet, which I'm I'm so excited to see. Yeah, a very ambitious student film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm so stoked for those guys. And I I I feel like you know, watch this space, yeah, like definitely for those guys, because just to tackle something like something like that is is incredible. And yeah, I'm so proud of them with whatever whatever happens with that. The fact just to do that, because I mean, as you know, like just trying to get anything off the ground is next to impossible.
SPEAKER_02:So and to do a s a feature film for your honours film at uni is like that's a huge feat. So and it was really fun. But yeah, um, and the first time we got to work together, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, yeah, properly, yeah. We hadn't worked together, no, not really. No. What else have we done together? I just I just stared at you longingly when we're in class together.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. What class was it? Was it Theresa Palmer? We did Eric Thompson or both?
SPEAKER_01:No, I didn't do Eric Eric Thompson's Thompson's class. I did Louis Heaston's class as well. So yes, so we did that. And that's right. That's because that's where we met. Theresa Palmer workshop was the first workshop I did when I got back to Adelaide. Because I'm from Adelaide, I don't know if you know that, but I'm from Adelaide, moved to Melbourne for twelve years or something.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Ah you I'm sure you've told me that.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe. Tried to do the acting thing over there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh didn't get into drama school. Uh was fitter about for. What school were you going for? Well, I tried to get into drama centre here. At Flinders. At Flinders. Yeah. No luck. I think I had I took two shots at it. Yeah. Over sort of the the course of a couple of years. And I was just too green. I was too anxious at the end of it. Yeah. Like I just couldn't do a scene in a room without like stay like massive stage fright. Right. But just because of the stakes that I put on myself.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Turns out I had G A D, which is anxiety, and but also which I've found out only since having kids is that I've got AD ADHD. Right. Which a lot of creatives out there hats off to my ADHD creatives. Yeah. So that was something that I only sort of came to terms with over the last couple of years. Yeah. Which has really helped me understand myself more, like get through that imposter syndrome, like from coming from our all different angles. And so but that was a really huge sort of thing to tackle, and you know, a lot of life questions answering, going, Oh my god, this makes so much sense now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and dealing with tall poppy syndrome, yeah, from my from my family growing up and just having temperature. Australians. Yeah, and just Australians in general. But you know, just feeling that as a a pretty because I wasn't I wasn't like an outward ADHD person, which is why it didn't get picked up. You know, I wasn't punching holes in walls and stuff. Yeah. That was my older brother. Undiagnosed. Yeah, so I was more on the um you know, the un the quieter, looking out the window. Yeah, the daydreamer. At the the daydreamer. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Daydreamer. Love it. So because of that, I think I wasn't ready. I I hadn't accepted myself. Yep. Uh I want was trying to be a performer. I was trying to fit myself into a box of the performer, of the drama school performer, I guess. And I was taking myself far too seriously when what I should have been doing is I should have been seeking the things that I actually wanted to do, um, which was clown stuff. Um and and and and pursuing comedy and stuff, because that's where my heart is, that's where my you know, where my soul is. And I really loved doing comedy and I should have I should have forged my way ahead in in that regard and and done fringe stuff, but I just didn't have the confidence or the or feel that I could do it.
SPEAKER_02:Well not even that I think what kind of comedy?
SPEAKER_01:All sorts like stand-up? No, no, no, like I ironically, I'm I've I've thought more and more about doing stand-up, but I I it's still something that that scares the shit out of me. Oh yeah, um yeah, right, it's terrifying. Yeah, I know. It's why would you do that to yourself? Yeah, it's masochistic. Um so I don't know, I like stupid comedy. Like like I I grew up on on uh Sean McAuliffe and Full Frontal and now I watch stuff like I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robinson and British comedy like League of Gentlemen and American comedy like Harested Development, yeah, like that sort of just amazing ensemble comedy. That sort of what was what I always wanted to do, but for some reason I didn't think there was an avenue to get to being a serious actor from doing that. So I should have gone to clown school in retrospect. I would have loved to have done that, you know, what Poppy was talking about the other week. But also I did other things like I travelled, you know, I went to the States with with my with Ness and we went to like national parks and we we we had a like a live experience of of of traveling and doing fun stuff. So it was a bit of sliding doors of could have done this, could have done that, and I decided to do the travel stuff. But there are parts of me that wanted to go to drama school or you know in in France and do clowning stuff, and but I think I was too worried that it would pigeonhole me into just being like a a clown or whatever. Yeah, which is what I am though, like and I've I've embraced that a lot more.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But what's interesting when you say when you say all that and you talk about your love for comedy and clowning and and entertaining, making people laugh. I mean, there's a real art to all of that, and it takes a huge amount of intelligence to be funny. But also when I met you, I recall you doing a funny scene in one of the workshops we were doing, but I also remember you doing some really, really lovely um dramatic work in those workshops as well. Right, and you can definitely do both, which I think shows a huge amount of emotional intelligence because I think you have to have that to sort of master comedy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've been taught that I'm emotionally intelligent when I said it. I don't know what that means.
SPEAKER_02:Um you know what, you're only emotionally intelligent.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. Um, no, uh sorry, I do digest. So I didn't get into drama school. I did drama workshop at Flinders, and one of the things was when I left school, drama was the only thing I like. You look at my report card from the last three or four years of school, that was it was like C's and maybe a B, D, and A in drama. Like I was like, I don't know, I'm not gonna do anything else because I can't I can't do anything else. So I don't know. Do they still have letters? Is that I don't know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I got a U in maths. Did you? I think it's ungradeable for awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Emotionally intelligent.
SPEAKER_02:There's a um I can't, I don't know who it is because I don't know New Zealand celebrities, but there's there was like a rugby player that was on like Wheel of Fortune and and he and he selected his letters. He said, Can I get O for awesome? And it's a good it's an inside joke with with me and the director of Crazy K. He's from New Zealand. And on the back of Crazy K's car is a is a deacle that says awesome with an O R S U M.
SPEAKER_01:O for awesome. Oh brilliant. I love it. Anyway, but you for awesome is even better. Awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, yeah, I got an I got an awesome in in uh math. I was drawing cartoons with Michael Newbold.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. I bet you can draw killer cartoons.
SPEAKER_02:I was doing well in maths before I sat next to Michael Newbold. Michael.
SPEAKER_01:What's Michael Ups in here?
SPEAKER_02:He's a cartoonist.
SPEAKER_01:So were you doing cartoons? Uh yeah, we'll we'll yeah we'll Can you draw Doodle now? Like can you do Noah?
SPEAKER_02:But I still draw the same guy. Yeah. His name's John Bob. John Bob? Uh yeah, he's a little skater dude with a beanie over his eyes. Yeah. He's a he's very uh the rapper. Like who?
SPEAKER_01:Parappa the rapper. That dates me too. I don't know that. Yeah, PlayStation 2.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. Uh he's he's very like um you do remember the show sticking round? That probably dates me too. Uh it dates me.
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_02:Sticking around. Anyway, that's a tangent. That's a that was a real tangent.
SPEAKER_01:I think we should insert the theme song here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, just that is good.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It is really good. It brings you back, doesn't it? It really does. Yeah, wow, wow, wow. I haven't had that.
SPEAKER_02:Sticking around years. Ugh, what's that funky smell? What? Yeah, you know, you know. You remember. That's good. That is good. Anyway, what the hell were we talking about?
SPEAKER_01:Fuck no.
SPEAKER_02:Who knows? Sorry. Um good thing I have all these questions prepared.
SPEAKER_01:I know that notepad's come in handy.
SPEAKER_02:Um did you try to get into drama school in Melbourne then?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I did you do VCA? No, I didn't. I so I never got into VCA. So yeah. Bitter and sore for a good few years there. And then basically I just kept and continue to just plug away at it. Like, and just but it's a bigger city and it's hard to like find ways in. And yeah. Did a couple of really good courses with my old mate, uh, Greg Apps. If you oh yeah, yeah. Thankfully he liked my work, which is really nice. Because, you know, apart from a couple of really good mates, actor mates, so um, shout out to Cam Fall, um, who's always been a really good mate and mentor. I think you need somebody in the corner. You need it, you need a mentor, you need a mate. Um, and it c it comes up on on in the envelope a fair bit as well. You've got to believe in yourself, but I think it's important to have not be surrounded by you don't have to be surrounded by people that believe you, but have a couple of people that you can uh speak to and and that do have your back and who who who will step into bat for you and hey, if they're decision makers are even better, that's awesome. But even if they're just good, they're good mates or they're you've got a good reader or somebody that's gonna keep you just uh be that nice little angel on the on the side of your you know, yeah, your shoulder, pushing you in the right direction. Yeah, I think that's really important because I think as as actors, uh we naturally we're we're feelers, right? So we feel a lot of things, and it's easy to get into your head about that. Yeah, you get so much downward pressure from yourself that you're not good enough or that you're you're not gonna make it, and so you just need a little bit of outside support, a little bit of positivity. Absolutely, you should be doing that for yourself as well at all times, as much as you possibly can, but to have somebody uh help. Along with that, I think, is is golden.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's what I love about Adelaide because we're all sort of in each other's corner, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I have so much love for the industry here. Like it's it just feels so different, different in that it's feels so much more community driven, so much more that uh everyone's looking for out for each other, yeah. And that we're all trying to lift each other up.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And and and yeah, that's that's something that I've decided at some point along the way that just I I want to be able to do too, is that I just want to be able to help other people as best as I possibly can. And there's no point wasting your energy in in hitting people down. No. Uh the more we lift each other up. It's like it helps everyone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. You you rise with the tide. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think it is easy, it's easy to get into your head about um inadequacies, especially when you if you do spend too much time just battling this out on your own as an independent actor, or you know, as someone that's you know, you just you're one person, you're one business, you know. And if you do spend too much time alone, you do fall into the trap of comparing yourself to other people and what you see online and what you see other people up to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I look it's always easy to say when you when you're getting work and you're getting auditions and stuff. Uh because I've been in the other side on the other side of that where it's it's been it's been shit. It's like it'd been a long time between auditions or you know, long stretches of of nothing. And that sucks. And it's hard to like pull your head out, or it's hard to listen to people going, you just need to do this, you just need to do that when you when you do shit. So I'm gra I am grateful for you know for the work that I've had, um, which has not been like a lot since I've been in Adelaide, but it's certainly I mean, I've been certainly getting more additions in Adelaide, more many more auditions since being in Adelaide than I ever did since being in Melbourne, yeah which is interesting.
SPEAKER_02:For interstate work or for local work? Probably both.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um I don't like I don't as in interstate jobs that come that film here, yeah, but not I haven't really done many interstate jobs that have filmed. Is that a film in there? No, I haven't been done many auditions. Do you do you get a f a few?
SPEAKER_02:Not really, but I mean those are the ones that when I do those auditions, I'm thinking they're not gonna hire me anyway. Yeah, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Like they they're just gonna hire locally Queensland or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:I mean that and that's it's not it's not it's that's kind of it's it's local IR, it's the stuff, it's just the way it is.
SPEAKER_02:I I mean, yeah, it does I'm definitely not putting less effort into those auditions. It's you know, it's an opportunity to get in front of new eyes. Exactly. Um if anything, it means I'm I'm more I'm probably gonna do better work because the stakes are lower for me. Yeah, you know, yes, it might be a big job, a potential job, but um I might feel more relaxed because I'm I'm I don't expect to get it. Get in the running, to be in the running. So I I might be more playful and loose and do better work, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Well it was that thing. Uh and as when I got to Adelaide as well, because I was freelancing for a while and just on the on the Facebook doing uh um I don't normally I don't call it the Facebook, just so I meant to say the Facebook. That was ironic. Yeah, it wasn't even ironic. It was it was the I was gonna say the Facebook um page, the Adelaide, the Adelaide Auditions page. I had finished.
SPEAKER_02:Are you on that Facebook? Are you on the YouTube? How'd you get on the YouTube?
SPEAKER_01:So anyway, so I did did a bit of freelance stuff and I was like trying to like I was chasing getting an East Coast agent again because I was like, do like I I've done I've had an East Coast agent. I don't want to go back down to an Adelaide agent. Like, what is it? Right, it felt like you're like, I felt like I was going backwards, right? And I was like, what am I doing? And you know what it was? You know, it was it was Lou Heesome who who changed my mind. Yeah. Legend. And she was like, Why do you want to why do you want an East Coast agent? Like, we wouldn't you if the work is here, unless you're going to go to the East Coast, why would you why would you do that? Um I was like, oh my god, you're right, you're absolutely right. Yeah. And I was like, why am I putting this this stupid pressure on myself to to do this? It does it doesn't make any sense. And so um, yeah. So yeah, I went and went and talked to Wendy and we had a good chat and I'm with uh well TKO.
SPEAKER_02:TKO. Yeah. She seems so great, man.
SPEAKER_01:She seems so lovely. She is very lovely.
SPEAKER_02:She I've met her a few times, and every time she, even though I'm not on her books, she is so supportive of she knows what I'm up to, which is really nice, and she's so supportive of me. And I love the fact that there are agents out there that are not competing. They are working as a team. It seems that's so refreshing to see. Yeah, no, she's shout out to Wendy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, shout out to you, Wendy. Um, she she came to my um uh to my casting crew screening for liability, oh nice um, which is very, very sweet of her. Like and she came all the way to semaphore. How sweet. Yeah, I know. Not even my family came. I mean, you know. She's picking up the slack. She is. She looked, she was like, oh, oh I was like, don't, you're gonna make me cry.
unknown:Oh god.
SPEAKER_01:Um, but no, it was really nice.
SPEAKER_02:And um I have seen her rock up to other people's like performances, and I know that she makes a huge effort to get to her actors performance. She really does. Yeah. Oh god, man.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I'm very, very grateful and very lucky to um have her once again like stepping up to bat for me, like on my team, and I think that's so yeah, always so supportive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but like you're saying, like the the East Coast thing, you know, there is an idea that like we're it doesn't count unless we've got some interstate agent, you know, some Sydney agent or whatever, but really it doesn't make a difference. Like as long as as long as you are getting in front of the casting directors, yeah, which our agents here have access to and have good relationships with, you know, that's their job to build relationships with the casting directors and get us in front of them.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:And and yes, it comes down to logistics of being in the in an in South Australia and and you know, and there's a bit of a stigma around around Adelaide actors, which I hope dies off over time.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like I I feel like it's dying off. I think so. Uh and I hope it is too.
SPEAKER_02:But um if you're watching this and you still believe that, yeah, I'm sorry. You're sorry for that. I'm sorry that you feel that way. Yeah, that's true. But you're wrong. Yeah, yeah. Um what really annoys me about that is is it's as if they're really holding on to the fact that they think no one has no no talent has come out of Adelaide. And like, look at like Damon Herriman, yeah. Look at Sia, yeah, the Philippo brothers. That's right. Uh, who else? Tilly Cobham Hervey. Yes. Um so many. That's four. And that's named I've named zero. That's all of them. That's all. Thanks for your input. Scott Hicks. Scott Hicks.
SPEAKER_01:There you go. There you go. You got one on the board.
SPEAKER_02:One out of five. And you. Yeah, me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and me. No, there's definitely more than that. There's definitely Sarah Snook. Sarah Snook. There you go. Snook. Snook? Snook, snook. But it's Snook. Sorry if I got that wrong, Sarah. Thankfully, she's not watching. She might be. She might. She might be. You know what we should do?
SPEAKER_02:We should rage bait her by mispronouncing her name. Oh, yeah. You know, force her to comment on this and be like, it's Snook!
SPEAKER_01:She could do a snook.
SPEAKER_02:But we'll be like, we still don't know what you're saying because you're typing it.
SPEAKER_01:Come in and say it to us in person. We've ruined it.
SPEAKER_02:She might. Come on, Snook.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Tell tell tell everyone how good Adelaide actors are.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But yeah, it grinds my gears. This idea that Adelaide actors can't act.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And but yeah, it does drive me. Crazy.
SPEAKER_01:No, does it motivate you? What I mean.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm a little bit defiant in um Yeah, I like being defiant. I want to live here. Yeah. I like Adelaide. I like, I mean, my whole family's here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It certainly ceased to be the the joke, like of of of a state, like what it used to be compared to the East Coast. Because what did the everyone do in during lockdown in 2020? Everyone moved to Adelaide. Yeah, I know. Thanks. Thanks for that East Coast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But I I I really like it here. And then there's definitely a lot of talent here, and we have amazing facilities here. And heaps of work gets made in.
SPEAKER_01:Which to be honest, I had no idea when I'm first moved back that that was happening at the cleanside facility there. That's amazing. It's huge, man. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um but it's it's our it's our little secret, you know? Yeah. And it's a small pond. Yeah. And it's easy to easy to get to know people. It's what I love. It's easier to build a career here.
SPEAKER_01:It's so nice to just to to talk to people and catch up with people in the in the small pond. I'm very happy with that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay. You mentioned liability before. Can we talk about some exciting films that you're in and and that certain festival that you're gonna be featured in twice? Twice. Coming up in October, yeah, sure. In the Adelaide Film Festival.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I I had a premiere in in WA with Cinefestos, which I've I've never never been to before, but it's a pretty big festival as far as I know. Yeah, nice. Um for Into the Earth, which is Lucy Campbell's uh directorial debut, I believe. Nice. Absolute legend. Yeah. Like writer director. She's amazing. She's so smart. Um and yeah, uh just working with her was such a an honour. It was, yeah, amazing to wear with her. Into the earth? Into the earth is one one of the shorts that I did.
SPEAKER_02:I think I've seen some sort of steals from that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, there's a couple of steals floating around.
SPEAKER_02:And you what kind of character are you playing? Because this guy has got this like greasy, like, I don't know, you kind of look is that that guy?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's the other guy. Oh that's the comedy. Which is ironic. It's just me. That's a headshot, dude. Oh shit. So look into the earth. Tell me about that. I was trying to look really hot in that shot. Oh no, I didn't say you didn't look hot. I just was like, It's greasy hot. You said it's washing hair. Coconut oil. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, coconut oil grease.
SPEAKER_02:Settle down.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, engine oil grease. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yes, that's what I use. Like, yeah in my hair. Tell me about Into the Earth is uh it's it's an environmental horror. I don't know. It's hard to I don't want to Yeah, don't give it away. I d like a like I can't it's not I mean it's a short, so it's it's hard to kind of distill it into a into a synopsis without giving it away.
SPEAKER_02:Giving the whole thing away. But okay, tell it tell us where it's um tell us about the Adelaide Film Festival then.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's a film festival. It's in Adelaide. Sorry, I'm sorry. Slow down. Slow down. Hold on. Um I'm in the I'm in the SA shorts. I'm in the SA And it's in Adelaide. It's in Adelaide. I'm in the SA Shorts program. Yep. Made in SA Shorts program. It's premier airing on Monday the 20th of October for the pink carpet gala.
SPEAKER_02:Ooh.
SPEAKER_01:So that's really exciting.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's awesome.
SPEAKER_01:So that's so that's my drama that I'm in. Yep. And then on the complete opposite end, I've got uh David Derrida's uh comedy Liability, which is greasy, greasy old greasy, greasy Joe.
SPEAKER_00:Greasy Joe.
SPEAKER_01:And I play co-star next to the uh wonderful actor, uh Joshua Campton, who um completely steals the show, and so he should. Nice. Um but it's yeah, it's a very funny film, it's very well written. Yeah, it's really it's great, it's really great. And I I don't mean to sound surprised, but it it's that thing of like you just you just don't know. You don't yeah when you when you make something, yeah, you just don't know how it's gonna edit together and all that unknown stuff. Yeah. The whole three films that the the page, the the production and the edit. But it was really nice to be proud of my work. I was I was so stoked for for for David and for the crew, um for wonderful JJ, who is producer on that. Yep. Oh my gosh, JJ. Seriously. How good is she? She's genuinely one of my favourite humans on this. Yeah, she's awesome on this planet. And somebody give her a freaking award already. Uh, I think the Sasa awards are still open. Um, so this is a nomination. This isn't my nomination, my public nomination for you, JJ. Yeah, she's doing a lot for the industry. She's making it. So much, and yeah, I just think she's she's incredible.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think she knows it. I don't think she realizes.
SPEAKER_01:She just goes, oh shit. Yeah, I know. Speaking of which, actually, I I brought you a little gift. I did. Really? If you want it. Otherwise, I'll keep it. It's my headshot. It's my 5'7. It might as well be. It's a little shot of uh JJ and I. Oh my god. A little BTS. But you look, you don't have to have to.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's the that is this unlike. Yeah, this is this is the must use this.
SPEAKER_01:It's a little BTS there of us taking our time onset very seriously.
SPEAKER_02:So sweet, man. Dude, is this a gift? It is a gift. This is sweet.
SPEAKER_01:If you want it. I accept. I don't know. I just thought it was a good one.
SPEAKER_02:No, this is gonna look great.
SPEAKER_01:Don't you read this? I'll find a permanent spot for it, but I'm gonna put it right here for now. See how just how I inserted myself into your backdrop.
SPEAKER_02:Can you see it there? I'll find a I'll find a permanent spot for it eventually.
SPEAKER_01:Um thanks, man. So yeah, I've got those two, which is really exciting. Um and I know you know how this feels, and we've talked about it as well, but you do work and then you just hear nothing for so long. Oh yeah. You just you're not sure. You don't know. You don't know if you you'll ever see it or yeah. That's right. And then it's it everything happens at once. Yeah. And you're like, oh, you're you know, people are like, oh you're so busy at the moment. And it's like, well, yeah, I was. Yeah, that was three years ago. Three years ago. Yeah, I haven't done it. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think I've got a there's I feel like I've done a lot of work over the last few years and none of it's come out. And do you get antsy about that? Not really. Because I yeah, like like you said, I feel like it's all gonna be it's all gonna drop at the same time, and then and then people will be like, Wow, you're really busy. Yeah, and be like, oh really, I just I'm not really working at all right now. But I was busy. It was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um I don't get antsy, like I don't need to see it all. No, we better man was like four years of waiting or something, three years or something, you know. That's true.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I guess the features I've done have been really fast turnarounds. With or without you was like a year. That was very quick. Yeah, it'll be on Netflix on the 7th of October.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really? So there you go. Awesome. Watch it for free.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great. Yeah. No, I mean, I guess like when you when you're trying to I guess use it, the footage or or or use it to to to get a bit of momentum. Yeah. Like that feeling of, oh, if only people would see me in that, yeah, then maybe I'd start getting more auditions in that regard. But you maybe you're not there because you do get enough for it to go to be.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I don't know. I I think I've found other ways to promote myself and network and and and things like that. It's still completely up to you to do your own promotion, you know.
SPEAKER_01:When did you f do you feel that you started like knuckling down with it? Like when did because you you you took a break, didn't you?
SPEAKER_02:I did, like through my twenties, but I was just a piss head for all that time. Yeah, and I just couldn't really function um as a human or creatively, so that's really why. But then then I quit drinking at twenty twenty-nine, I think. And luckily I f I fell in love with acting again at the same time. Um so that around then was when I when I was I had decided like this is I'm gonna pursue this real hard again. Yeah, and things worked out pretty quickly because I was here present again. My I could function again, you know, mentally. Yeah, and then I got better man and it was just a good confidence boost. Yeah. But promoting myself, even though I mean my role was so small, but like um the biggest film I've ever been in, and but you realise like, oh, no one is going to promote you as part of that film, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01:Unless you're on the red carpet, yeah, unless you're like you know, standing next to Ruby and yeah, doing the thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but like when you're a kid, you just assume that if you're in a movie, like there's gonna be some PR team that picks you up and be like, all right, here we go. Yeah, but yeah, I realize like I I should probably use this opportunity to as a as a um a a vehicle to tell an interesting story about how I Absolutely how this happened. Yes. And um And it was great. And it was fun. It was amazing. And thanks, man. And then I so I just thought I'd continue that and that seemed to be a a really good way of um connecting with m other actors and an audience, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:And so I started this.
SPEAKER_01:And the work and yeah, and the work that goes into it as well, like that it doesn't just yeah, it doesn't just happen happen. Like, yeah, you got up up your ass and you did did the work to get that role.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Yeah, and like Nick as my agent did a lot of work in like you know, he advocated for me and vouched for me, which is his job, you know. But I do I do think some people sit back and expect their agent to do everything. Yeah. And like a lot of the work that I get now, Nick has nothing to do with when he still gets a commission because that's the agreement, and but so much of the work that I've done lately has been the connections that I've personally made over the years and through putting myself out there online, and you know what about you? Like, because I know I know Wendy works her ass off. Yeah, she does, and yes, she does a lot of the work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she works, she works her butt off. Like, I haven't really like I've booked a couple of s you know, small, small, good paid gigs in in Adelaide through Wendy, but most of the stuff that I have done has been sort of as an aside to that from other gigs that I've done and and and talking to people and make and doing the the networking thing. But it's just been meeting people and yeah, and and yeah, going applying to for those auditions that you you see on on the Facebook and uh and meeting people and and seeing what their work is and if you like their work then you'll probably find a connection there just naturally because that that's sort of just how works the synchronicity in that and then you'll be invited back and then you'll meet other people and that's that's the that's the network, yeah. Right. It's the conversations, it's the conversations with people that you you want to work with and and talking up their their work if you like it. Yeah. Not being afraid to let people know that you you like and respect their work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a big thing, reaching out to people and connecting with people.
SPEAKER_01:There's a lot to be said for that. Emily Emily Joy Emily Joy talks a lot about that, yeah, about just uh genuine interactions with people that you want to work with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and being but being genuine, I think that's that's the most important part. Like, you know, be a fan of people that you want to work with. Well, work with the people that you're a fan of, you know? That's right, yes, exactly. And I mean that makes sense, right?
SPEAKER_01:Doesn't that doesn't that make sense? Totally, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh actually it reminds me of when I back when I had first auditioned for Better Man. Like say at a point where I was like really I had decided to get back into the industry and I was like, how do I actually meet people who I don't know who's around, but I was following a bunch of filmmakers like Emerson Hoskin and you know all those Stepney studio guys and I so good and I messaged Emerson because we'd followed each other and you did the you did the film with Jess.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we did the 48-hour film festival together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I messaged Emerson and and and I just said, Hey man, like let's get a a pub meal together. Yeah, and we caught up and just talked about film and stuff, and you know, he's just one of those people that you like. I I feel like we could be good mates. I feel like we're on the same page in a lot of things because I like your work. Yeah, and that's how I met all those guys, yeah, you know, and we did the 48-hour film together and and and that network just kept growing from there, really. And that I think that was probably sort of the starting point of of just getting my foot back in the door in the industry here.
SPEAKER_01:It's yeah, and uh same same deal. Like I messaged I messaged those guys because I knew I knew that like that film was amazing, like and the uh 48 one, yeah. I know like because I think it was on the same now as ours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's is uh yeah, you could just tell, like just amazing stuff. It's so good. I think a message is it uh is it Schaefer? Gosh, it was uh Tom Thomas Schaefer, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like it's amazing work, yeah. Well done.
SPEAKER_02:But those guys are like Henry, the real deal, man. Like the the corporate work they do is so good. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:If you're looking to have a commercial made, just reach out to Stepney Studios. Stepney Studios, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I want to have those boys on. They're so busy. Yeah, yeah, I imagine they would be. So um why don't we go back to the genesis of this idea of becoming an actor? Like what do you remember do you remember when that idea came to you? You know, what was the inspiration to follow this pursuit?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it's uh uh uh yeah. So I think I always I always knew this was something that I wanted to do because because of because of my brother, who like I always looked up to and he was always the class clown, the performer, yeah, the comedian, like hilarious, uh funny. Uh and that was and I always felt like I was in his shadow. And I I I don't know if this is like a natural thing to just be like you know, you look up to your your your brother and you wanna you want to be like him or whatever. I remember when we did the way back when when the Investigator Science Center was still around. Yeah to know what the Investigator Science Centre is. Yeah, well, there was one thing there that we um that where they had you could make your own like they had a s a special effects like exhibition where you could make your own thing.
SPEAKER_02:Like a green screen. Yeah, I went to that. You did. Yeah, I was very young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With my cousin. Well gun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:With um you get and you get a videotape to take home. Yeah, yeah. I mean, pretty well set up, really. Yeah, all things considered. Yeah. And you'd whack the videotape in, you'd like that give you the blank one at the start, and you'd whack the videotape in, you'd do your little thing. Yeah. Um, and then you'd uh remember the the lava bridge. The lava bridge, yeah, all that stuff, man.
SPEAKER_02:I remember that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I remember doing this newsreader bit and where you got to pretend to be newsreaders and and my brother Pete like just smashing it out of the the park and me just trying to copy as much of him as possible. And it was like it was definitely one of those moments of like, oh I'm not as good as uh at this as you, but I want to be as funny as you. And he yeah, we grew up watching Full Frontal together, Forty Towers like being a huge influence on our on our sort of on our um childhoods. And you know, we did the same year twelve play, like we were years apart, but we just happened to do the same play over the Lovely War, classic musical.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I kept pursuing acting um and gradually um he he sort of moved away from it, sort of yeah, mental health issues over the years, and just it became like a real point of me wanting to do it and him sort of uh not not feeling jealous about it, but him sort of falling down into into depression about the thing that he could have done. And I I I you know you know, I dri I drove so hard to just sort of encourage him to keep doing it anyway. So yeah, uh look, the drink came into it, and um so it's been it's actually been a really, really tough year this year because um he yeah, he he passed away in um in March. And uh yeah, I didn't know if I was gonna uh bring this up today or not. I wasn't sure how comfortable I was gonna feel about it and I haven't really talked about it, but um just dealing with grief and and uh how that plays into everything and even you like having having movies at the festival or whatever, it's just it's just like I feel guilty, you know, to to be pursuing this thing now when he hasn't uh when he's he's not around anymore. And like even and and posting to social media and stuff when I should be when I should be grieving. But I didn't know I didn't know what grief was gonna was gonna be like. No, like I didn't know how I was gonna be able to process this. It's just been really tricky, really tricky year. And I think he drove me to to be the performer, performer that I am, and I'm really grateful for that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it just breaks my heart that he can't be, yeah, he can't be here to to to do it too, you know, and and the coulda woulda shoulda of being able to to get him off the the wagon of of you know of of drinking and stuff. So you know, more power to you for for being able to to pull yourself through that because it's a real a real shit of a thing. So I don't I don't know where I wanted to go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that I think the hard thing with that is that the people around you, the people around the person going through that feel responsibility for the person going through it. Yeah. And that the difficult thing is that no nobody can really pull them out of it but themselves. And it might just be something that you carry for a while. Yeah. And um and I'm really sorry about your brother.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's real fucked. So um yeah, I'm sorry that it's pulled some shit.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't want to not at all, man. I'm I'm glad you brought it up and I'm I'm glad you're talking about it because it's important that you talk about it. Yeah. And um and if it if anyone's you know gonna understand, you know, I understand, you know what what it is what the whole is and yeah, and I haven't really did like I haven't really talked about it because I think I think part of me like doesn't want to open that up again, like or or hasn't hasn't cracked it yet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's too hard and and you know, and and in this weird way as well, you like you think about your acting work and you like like I haven't done a dramatic role since, but I don't know how I'm gonna like avoid bringing that like into it. And I like I'm almost ashamed to even bring it up, man. But it's like it's it's there because that's that's how it's it's part of you, right? It's part of your your experience now. Um part of my experience now, and how do I not well?
SPEAKER_02:I think we have to be really careful with what we bring into our work, and we've talked about this a few times in in on the podcast is is like um accessing real situations in our lives and uh and using it in our work, but I I think that it can become really uh unstable and dangerous. Um but it yeah, but yeah, I know what you mean. Like it it would be scary to go into a job um that has the potential of opening up um certain certain moments in your life and experiences or things that you're still going through. So you gotta be real careful of that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But then like I mean the other uh part of me does wonder about the the the catharsis of that of of not not a way of I don't know, not therapy, but I mean Yeah, I know what you mean. I don't know if it's gonna be be a helpful part of that process or or not, or if I'm better off doing that, just like keeping that as part of the just in the privacy of my own home. It's like a real hard thing to navigate. Uh and grief's crazy, man, because it doesn't hit you doesn't hit you the way that you think it well, well it didn't hit me the way that I thought it would. Yeah. Especially somebody as close as my brother who was my best friend growing up, who everything was so aligned. Um, the the what we thought was funny, our sense of humor, you know, he's he's he's impossible to to forget.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it's so tricky to to just not bring that into the work. And I don't yeah, I just don't know. I I feel selfish even talking about it, bringing it up. It's just I guess uh having that conversation about yeah, dude, is there a is there a line that needs to be drawn somewhere so that you don't end up damaging damaging yourself.
SPEAKER_02:As in in your own work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, in your in your own work. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But I think you know, you you mentioned feeling guilty about celebrating your own successes in especially in something that he was that he inspired you to do and he maybe wanted to pursue as well. I think when something like that happens, we have to remember that they would want us to celebrate, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'd hope so. Yeah, I'd hope so, man. Yeah, he'd be, you know, he'd be proud. Yeah, man. He would be, man.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, proud, and and we have to keep going and we have to continue to live and not let the the guilt of of enjoying life, you know, um hold us back from actually living our own lives, you know. But I think it's uh it's gonna be a big journey for you.
SPEAKER_01:You know Yeah. I guess this this conversation comes from two two directions of of going, yeah, I feel guilty about doing even doing the work and celebrating the work, but then I feel like ashamed that I'm even considering allowing my grief to um come into my work or or penetrate my work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It just feels a really really fucked thing to even talk about. But I just Yeah, I don't I don't know what I'm saying, man.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's okay to feel yeah, fucked about it and feel confused about it. I don't think there's really a right answer about it. I think everything that you're feeling is valid. You know, all of those conflicting. feelings um I think that's just part of the package of grief you know so yes I think you're gonna feel guilty about about enjoying your your own success and that's okay to feel to feel guilty about that I think it's part of it but it's I don't think that'll I think you'll hopefully learn to um embrace that and actually feel really proud of of of that success and and I think he'll he'll I think he would want you to feel proud of that. Yeah. You know um but we have to we have to continue on you know and we have to we we I think what I think you're s emotionally intelligent enough and self-aware enough to check in with yourself and and know there are there might be times where it's too it's too much and or you know you take on a role that might be just getting a little too close to to some things that you you shouldn't be accessing right now. Yeah. And checking in with yourself and knowing when to pull back and say oh no that this this isn't the right time to be doing this one. But also having a good network of people that you trust um and even building good relationships with the people that you're working with that know what you're going through and so that that you can build a a um a safe environment for you to work with um so that you can still function as an artist um but know when to communicate with with the people that you're working with that like all right we just we need to accommodate for for some of the things that I'm going through right now that I think and I know people would understand. Yeah. But I'm glad you're talking about it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah it's a huge thing and I've struggled to really um unpack it and yeah it makes it makes me sad of course like because he's you know he's so much better performer than I'll ever be and that and that I think that for me was the biggest heartbreak for me that he never got to he never got to fulfill that like that was the real fucked thing about the whole thing is that I know if he his mental health was in a in in a better spot or if it was which was m what my theory was that he had undiagnosed ADHD which led him to self-medicate because he just couldn't deal with stuff. Yeah um that he might have been on a better track to to to get help to get medication to get um you know the the right help uh to pull him through but um you know you never know you just don't you don't know and that the that will obviously just go unanswered yeah and that's that's something you just I have to come to terms with but it's real it's real hard.
SPEAKER_02:It's real hard.
SPEAKER_01:Of course man sorry to put the downer on you but I yeah I don't know maybe it maybe it was cathartic for me to talk about it. I did I didn't I know you feel the need to apologise but you know you don't need to apologise for that yeah and I I guess it was just and I don't know how you open you are as well I didn't I bet I didn't seek permission to kind of open up stuff for you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah but you can go in five years man thanks man it's pretty damn good well yeah ma'am yeah um sorry I don't mean to I don't mean to bring it up man well how do you talk about this otherwise you know yeah I'm I'm really sad for your brother I'm really sad for you and I'm sad for your brother yeah thanks man and um and I'm I'm grateful I'm grateful that um when I hear things like that I th there's no way to talk about this without feeling incredibly selfish you know what I mean and I think I think that's really hard. Yeah man um and so thanks for um yeah five years of sobriety is is is good. It's a fucking milestone and it should be celebrated awesome thanks man but and I I'm I'm really sad for your brother because um and when I think about that and I'm sometimes I look back and I wonder how I survived it too. And sometimes I think it was just hit and miss you know and um so um I feel lucky that I survived it yeah and saw a way out of it you know and but not everyone's as lucky. Yeah you know yeah and I think we just gotta keep celebrating what we what we do have you know yeah I mean I mean we we have to we have to just put put our the selfish the idea that anything is selfish on the shelf because we have to just continue to to live for ourselves and and and honour the people that aren't here anymore you know yeah yeah yeah yeah I just yeah no massive respect for you uh man and and uh and I I I guess bringing awareness to it as well like yeah like it's a it's a real shit thing um but yeah and and like um I've I know I'm still only at the start of my my journey with it and what do you what kind of things are you doing to um get through this oh god man like it's uh I mean thinking about my kid like it's like it's not pushing it under the rug but like it's when you've got kids man like you don't I maybe and maybe that's why I haven't processed it as much as I should have or feel like I should have because that they don't not care but they've they're living their lives you know they're the main character in their stories and you're trying to help support them.
SPEAKER_01:So but like what about for you like are you I mean and that's I mean that's the like because they're you know they're the exact same age as like uh even I was so I look at them interacting and seeing their relationship right yeah and that breaks my fucking heart so much man because I think about all the years that we had together right and just how much influence we had on each other and every single fight that we had every single video game that we played together and like that's the hard part like of that because you just see it every day. So from that perspective it's really tricky but yeah but I I'm so busy with them and hanging out with them and playing with them and and and focusing being present on them that that that does help me through. And I I I work as a Captain Starlight so I'm working with kids all the time and and doing I think doing something that's larger than yourself I think is like giving back and and that's what I feel like I'm doing with with Captain Star like is getting giving back to to see kids. Yeah and that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Because I mean I I love being an actor and I think I'm I'm really grateful for it and I'm not reticent to say this but it can s seem like a a selfish pursuit sometimes we're not saving lives in the well something I've struggled with it with lately um is is like watching so much of the news and knowing what's happening around the world and then doing something like this makes me f makes me think like why why would why would I be doing this you know yeah why what gives me the right to keep pursuing something so sort of you know it's only going to benefit me really. Yeah. But then the way that I sort of justify that I I guess or make myself feel well I I I I don't think it's just justifying it. I think even when horrible things happen around the world or or really life changing things happen to us, we still have to bring some beauty to this world, you know. Yeah. I don't think it's selfish to want to pursue something that actually brings yourself and other people joy, you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah and it's it's been so ingrained in us as a culture that arts is lesser. Yeah. You know, that it's the first to fall fall away. Yeah yeah it's the first to lose funding it's the first to um you know to to yeah to get brushed away by society when that ironically was the first thing that we reach for in in lockdown.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah so true.
SPEAKER_01:But it's it's still so front of mind that that stigma associated with it being not as important when when really when really it should be and it is.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's it's it's one of the most important things you know and I don't think it's necessarily selfish to want to enjoy something you know something so harmless really um and and pursuing the arts and and bringing you know bringing something to the world that isn't miserable if you know um I mean if we don't have if we don't have it what else do we have you know exactly yeah yeah yeah we found something that doesn't feel painful you know yeah so pursue it I think it's a good thing yeah yeah I'm glad you brought it up brought it up man I'm glad you talked about I was wondering if you were gonna bring if you wanted to bring it up or not yeah and it's just so just feels just feels so intertwined with everything. I think that's why um it's been such a struggle and yeah do you ever call like Beyond Blue or anything I I used to call those guys all the time I haven't called Beyond Blue called Lifeline. Yeah you know this is amazing no I'm not saying that this is something you need to do but like there's a um mental health an emergency mental health clinic on Guja Street in the city yeah and it's like the most amazing thing I've ever I've ever seen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I've heard great things about that clinic.
SPEAKER_02:It's good man. Yeah so if you yeah I went there and it was like I I walked in I was like is this a thing? This is amazing. Yeah I've heard them and then I snapped out of whatever I was going through because I was just so impressed with the place. It was fucking awesome. That's that's I've got so much hope in this world yeah because it's reasonably new isn't it it's like I think so yeah yeah but they do amazing things like instead of those nights where you you go for an hour drive just screaming behind the wheel it's a safe place to go and just and there's a counsellor there and they'll they'll they won't let you leave for like a couple of hours until they they're satisfied with you know how you how you are it's unreal man.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah that's great.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah but I used to call it 247 isn't it yeah yeah yeah and anyone can go there yeah um yeah and all those mental health hotlines and I know people throw the numbers out there all the time but like I I've spent so many hours on the phone to those to those hotlines. Yeah and sometimes they're helpful sometimes they're there's a newbie on the line.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I c I called the um I called the grief line on the on the day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah and the gu the guard like oh yeah we've got sources online you can some of them are really good some of them actually actually get a counselor sometimes they it's just you know and that's okay just just call back.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah yeah I think people I think people need to know that though do you know what I mean? Like I think because you don't people throw their number out all in time. The first time you call like that could be it you know like that could be the that could be the call that you need and you get something shit on the line.
SPEAKER_02:But I've had some really really good people on the phone the counsellors on the phone that have that have got me out of some really horrible moments.
SPEAKER_01:Shout out to all the people that do that yeah it's amazing counselling it's um yeah it's a heavy job and yeah dude it's um yeah yeah it's it's it's a very important job.
SPEAKER_02:That mental health that that all sneak up a little yeah yeah it does.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah man well we went there thanks for going there with me. Anytime man um yeah I figured you I I I thought you might be up for it.
SPEAKER_02:I wasn't I wasn't sure I'm always up for it man like I I know what it's like and if we if I can help a mate out and it's a lonely endeavor.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah you know because I d y you know I haven't I've been to it specifically from from your end of things but I've certainly been been close to it and and and f felt the the spiral um so yeah well thankfully I I haven't I haven't lost anyone I and I don't know what it's like to to lose someone like that and I I can't imagine what what that's like but bewildering yeah yeah it's um and I and I feel uh I feel selfish isn't it weird like how selfishness is such a driving or like a reoccurring thing here you know I feel selfish even talking about it as someone that got through it you know no that's why I wanted to talk about it with you because uh you're uh a a testament the that that every every story's different and that um you can you can do it like it's it's and it's it's hard bloody hard work and but people can do it. Um doesn't make it any easier or no for kid it's for you and everywhere everyone's journey's it's not easy man it's the fucking hardest thing in the world yeah yeah yeah and I I don't think your brother was weak. Yeah yeah no thanks man no he uh no he would afford man yeah thanks man yeah because cause like that shit man like it you you think you you think you've kicked it and then it comes back and you're like what the fuck yeah you're like I I fucking I did it how am I back here yeah I w I wanted to talk to you about this I didn't necessarily want it to be in this in this format but I had wanted to have a a like a a heart to heart with you about it.
SPEAKER_02:Well we can we can have a proper heart to heart without cameras on us yeah yeah anytime and not just one yeah you know yeah man and we we'll do that yeah for sure because um it's like it's gonna be a long battle yeah you know yeah and and there's so many feelings that come with it and there's so much guilt and shame and and regret and and all these things that come come with a package of grief you know um but you know this is this is exactly what we're talking about man reach out you know so I'm glad you did and and we'll we'll turn the cameras off and we can we can do this anytime. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah yeah and and not feel conscious about what we're saying. That's right. Do you know what I mean I know but it's also you know I think it's an important aspect that you're bringing up the the feelings that come with when something disastrous happens in your life and and how we how we continue on and how we stay excited for our own our own life and our own career and and all the feelings that are associated with that like the guilt and the shame and the selfishness quote unquote of that yeah yeah it's I think of that's what I've I mean I've in a way I still feel like I've got my head under a under a rock you know and because I I j I just don't want to come out of the cave. Well we gotta survive you've got to survive it too you know yeah man you have to cope you have to cope when you can and sometimes it's okay to it's okay to begin on under the rock and say I can't I'm not ready right now. I'm ready to deal with it right now. That's okay you know and and and then there's moments when you are when you are ready and and let a little bit out you know that's when you have mates and and yeah good good friends and family and counsellors and everyone to say I I need to this is now is a good time to talk about it. Yeah but all the other all the feelings that come with it there's gonna be a lot of guilt that comes with with all of those feelings and you just have to keep reminding yourself that that this is I sh yes I'm gonna feel guilty for this but it's okay for me to feel guilty and it's okay for me to feel all these other negative things about it. All these selfish feelings that that that that just come with it. Yeah man the shit thing is it's just not really an an answer to it. It's just no you're just gonna go on this journey now. Yeah you know that's it and I mean there's so much other suffering in the world right now but you can't compare your s your your situation to all those things. You can't diminish your own situation because there's this huge bigger problems in the world. Yeah you know you are going through this. Yeah yeah it's okay for this to be the most important thing because it is you know we can't factor in all that stuff once again outside outside of control. Yeah yeah doesn't mean you don't care about everything else that's happening.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah you know it's overwhelming it is overwhelming though. Yeah um but yeah you've got to look after yourself first that's that's the thing well that's what I that's what I always told myself and that's what uh like one of the few things that I was like if I can't if I can't look after myself I'm not gonna be able to look after you anyway. So that was all and that was always came back to me not feeling like I was okay enough to be able to I mean I had you know I had my own own shit going on too like it was so hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah of course that's it that's it when you're there for so many other people and you have to put everything that you are already going on going through and in comparison you feel selfish but even worrying about the the the the shit that you're already going through. Yeah you know yeah all right man cool man that's good heart to heart man thanks I'm glad thank you for opening up I'm really glad you you brought it up and uh of course I'm always happy to have it to talk yeah anytime man it's lovely yeah yeah fucking legend you are man yeah all good um how are we how are we gonna cap this up how do we cap this up just uh bleary red eyes and then they smoked a fat joint joint maybe that's what we should have the ice area that's right also well man I'm really glad that you came in today I'm um oh because I'm a fan of because I'm a fan of your work you know and I'm and I'm and I'm excited to see what what else you do and I'm really excited to see your films at the Adelaide Film Festival. Thanks man and I'm excited to see Planet Caravan yes you play you play the detective wait who are you detective what detective I actually I can't remember no idea what I carried design of sorry I was John I think I was John yeah sorry boys detective something agent that's right that's why I couldn't didn't roll off the tongue agent hogarth agent hogarth I'm really excited to see that but uh but also um I know you're gonna do some more amazing work in the future and you're gonna you're gonna blow us all you are too I can't we get to work I want to work with you again yeah no hey thank you so much for having me once again I don't know if I if you caught it before but it was uh yeah real privilege to be here and uh I didn't think that um I'd be famous enough to be on your famous person podcast shut up man well now you are apparently this is it this is it this is it the big break this is gonna be it yeah yeah please please banji Gronawigan what a beautiful guy Benji thanks so much for sharing that with me um I know that wasn't easy for you and I and I don't think you expected to open up like that especially in this setting um but I'm I'm glad you did and I think we I don't know I'm glad we were able to have this conversation and it it's yeah I don't I don't really know what else to say about it. But guys if this episode has brought up anything for you uh please make sure that you reach out to to a friend or one of the hotlines that we're talking about Lifeline or Beyond Blue or if it's a real emergency contact uh triple zero. Benji you are such a talented and insightful actor thank you for sharing all your wisdom with me and with with the podcast um it was such a pleasure to have you here by the way I think um Benji wanted to reiterate the list of nine things to know before a scene because I think he kind of went off the top of his head and repeated a couple or like skipped some. So he wanted to reiterate what they were so he sent them to me. Jeff Seymour's nine things to know in a scene who are you what's happening right now or what has just happened where are you who are you with and what's your relationship to that person? What do you want? What's stopping you from getting it? Why do you deserve to get it? How far are you willing to go to get it? And finally what will you do to get it? So there you go that's Jeff Seymour's nine things to know in a scene. Thanks for sharing that with me Benji really good stuff man that's like really helpful. Alright guys thanks for being here I hope you're all doing okay um please reach out if this episode um triggered anything in you and you want to just reach out and have a chat I'm happy to happy to have a little chat if you need to but make sure you do reach out to a friend or family member or hotline if you if um this has brought up anything uh for you guys. Please make sure you subscribe and follow wherever you're listening and watching. Leave a comment let me know what you think let me know how you're feeling make sure you share this on your story. Please help me get the podcast out there. Thanks for all the love you guys are sharing with me it really means a lot. Also please make sure you give Benji a follow on Instagram at Benji underscore G. That's Benji B E N J I underscore G double E. Make sure you join me next week guys I've got another amazing guest. We talk about Oasis and Better Man and music and it's really fun chat with uh a really great actor and writer as well. I'll see you then guys take it easy my name is Chris Gunn and hey go pluck yourself