Ep 10: Two Noel Gallaghers Walk Into a Podcast. Art & Ambition with Tom Spiby

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This week I’m joined by actor, writer, musician and all-round legend, Tom Spiby, who somehow shares my very specific claim to fame: we’ve both played Noel Gallagher. Tom’s the lead guitarist in the Oasis tribute band Noasis, while I played Noel in Michael Gracey’s Better Man. So yeah, this episode was always going to get a bit nostalgic.

We talk about acting, songwriting, filmmaking, and his upcoming short film Core, a dark, character-driven drama about a young drummer chasing opportunity at any cost. Tom shares what he’s learned from writing and producing his own work, studying at Flinders Drama Centre, and balancing his love of music and film.

It’s a fun, genuine chat about creativity, collaboration, and staying true to your artistic voice. And of course, plenty of talk about Oasis, growing up on 90s music. Just two dudes being dudes.

Check him out on all his socials! This guy does not stop!

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Thanks for listening. Let me know what you think.

🎵 Theme music by Nick Gun: soundcloud.com/nickgun

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome, Wins, And Guest Setup
• 3:40 Running, Routines, And Creative Discipline
• 7:00 Writing CORE: From Draft To Greenlight
• 10:50 Drummer, Morals, And Sound Of Metal Vibe
• 15:30 Acting Versus Directing And Career Focus
• 20:40 Two Noels: Better Man And Noasis
• 25:40 Noasis Origin Story And Family Legacy
• 31:20 Music Upbringing And 90s Energy
• 36:40 Training, Theatre Work, And Craft
• 42:00 Physicality, Character Shifts, And Process
• 47:00 Scoring, Producing, And Songwriting Blocks
• 53:30 Collaboration, Momentum, And Shipping Work
• 58:40 Next Gigs, Long Flight Home, And Moving
• 1:03:20 Pre-Production, Trust, And Killing Darlings
• 1:09:00 Content, Authenticity, And Sustainable Promotion

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Tom Spivey, and you should go pluck yourself.

SPEAKER_01: 0:15

Hello, welcome to Go Pluck Yourself, The Actor's Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. And I'm laughing because I I just got a a photo from a friend of mine uh of a billboard or a bus stop or something for a commercial that I did recently in Melbourne and it it's hilarious. It's for this um salami ad. Or no, it's a small goods um commercial that I did, which is ironic because I'm a vegetarian. But anyway, enjoy. Enjoy the Puopalo ads that I did. They're very funny. Oh man. Um, welcome to the show. Um, thanks for being here, guys. Oh, you know what? It's we're in uh this is episode 10. We're in the double digits, guys. We're doing it. And I'm really excited about today's guest. I have a really interesting connection with this guest. Um his name is Tom Spybe. He's an actor from the UK, and he but he lives he's lived in Adelaide for a long time now. But we both play Noel Gallagher. He plays Noel Gallagher in uh a really successful Oasis tribute band called Noasis, and I play Noel Gallagher, or I played Noel Gallagher in Better Man. So it was really fun to have him on and and sort of bond over our Gallagher, I don't know, experiences. Yeah, it's really cool. He's a great guy, he's he's he's a fantastic actor. I've seen him perform. Um I can definitely vouch for him. He's an amazing actor. Uh he studied at Flinders Drama Center. Um, what else? What else? What else? What else? He he's just written his first short film, Core, which sounds amazing. It's like it's like a drama about a drama, a drama drama, and um really keen to see what he does with that. Yeah, Tom Spybe. Make sure you check him out on Instagram at Tom Spybe. Check out Noasis, and also his film, Core, has an Instagram account. Make sure you follow at core underscore film. Um, what did we talk about? He talked about his experience at drama school. Uh, we talk about songwriting and making content. We basically just get really nostalgic about music and and bands and things like that. And guys, I haven't plugged this in a little while, but if you enjoy this show, if if it brings you uh entertainment, if it makes you feel a little less alone in your creative endeavors, you can support the show by subscribing to the Patreon, patreon.com slash gopluckyourself pod and signing up uh as a patron for as little as five dollars a month. Um and it's not much, but you it it really does help keep this show going. Um, I do all this myself. I love it, but it's a lot of work. So your support really means means a lot to me, guys. And if you don't, if you can't afford to um sign up as a patron, that's fine. At the bare minimum, like this, follow, subscribe, and share this episode on your story or whatever. Just help me get this podcast out there, it really does help. Thanks for all your support so far, guys. Alright, let's get to the episode. Tom Spybee, he's an amazing actor. I can't wait to see what he does with his film core. Keep an eye out for that. Give him a follow on Instagram at Tom Spybe. Check him out, guys. Uh all right, please enjoy my very fun chat with the very talented Tom Spybe.

SPEAKER_00: 3:41

You've been watching? I have been watching. I know you have because of it. Well, I've been listening, and then and then actually I when I watched the YouTube, then I saw in the corner that you've got the Noel Gallagher um epiphone, the Union Jack.

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

Yes, yeah, it's it's uh it's uh it's not actually that small. It's just really far away. Well he is quite small. He is, yeah, he is quite the hands. Petite man. Yeah, dude. And um, yeah, that's that's about it. And and the the Oasis poster, that's about all the Oasis paraphernalia that I have. That's good. Yeah, dude. How's your morning been, bro? We'll get into Oasis and and Noasis and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 4:17

It's been good. I went for a run. Good on you, man. I have a little track like near my house, and um we have like pull-up bars and stuff, so I sort of in my head I was like doing a mini high rot, you know, like the highest. Yeah, yeah. So I was doing like pull-ups and then I did a couple laps and then did some more and yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_01: 4:35

I went to the gym at 5 a.m. Today. Yeah. Mental. Yeah, well, wasn't my idea. Oh no. Yeah. You get dragged along. Well, I'm the one with the car. If she wants to go, I also want to go. Yes. Yeah. That's quite good. No, it's good. It motivates me, gets me out of bed and and and moving. It does. You know what we did last weekend? Just I'm not one upping you, sorry. I got up at five. This is yeah, a run twice. Oh, did you? You went for a little run, did you? Good on you, mate, yeah. What time did you get up? I got up earlier than you are, but we we did do a half marathon last weekend. Oh, and the city to bet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fun in the rain. It was good. Ah, yeah, ready to go. I loved it, yeah. Good. You know, it's not we weren't going at a really fast pace, we're going at a decent pace just to just to achieve it. Yeah. And I think the thing about running a long distance is it's not necessarily that hard if you're, you know, relatively fit. It's just really boring, you know? After like 17Ks, you're like, all right, yeah, that's enough.

SPEAKER_00: 5:41

And do you run out of songs as well?

SPEAKER_01: 5:43

Yeah, well, we got to about 12k and then Sonno was running next to me. Yeah, yeah. I had my headphones in the whole time, Fontaines DC. And um eventually she just tapped me. She's like, and she's like, I'm bored. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's boring. Oh no. Um, so we just chatted. So we're going fast, like slow enough to be able to chat. So I really loved it. Yeah. And and we were drenched, it was like pissing down with rain, yeah. Just wringing out our shirts. It was good fun. And she was she was so stoked. Like the first three kilometers, she was just smiling nonstop. Like it's her first official event, and she was just taking it in, and I it was adorable. I loved it. Just watching it and was like, Fuck yeah, dude. This is Austin. Doing it together would be nice. Yeah, it was really nice, man.

SPEAKER_00: 6:29

Yeah. I I want to do, I want to try and do it like next year or something. Every year I'm always like, yeah, do it, man.

SPEAKER_01: 6:34

Like, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 6:35

What's the furthest you've ever run in one go? Uh I normally do I normally do 5K's on the weekend. Yeah, nice. My my my mum does like park run. Have you ever heard of park run? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's like a park run right near my house. Yeah. And we do that. But I never really run more than that. I only do about 10k, probably has been my max. Yeah, because it's boring after that.

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

Yeah, exactly. It's boring much earlier than that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

So what what else is happening? What is happening? Um, I am in the middle of doing a pre-production for my film that I've written. Yeah, dude. Core. Yeah, I'm so excited to hear about this. Tell us about core. Well, it's been a long time coming. I sort of wrote it, or I wrote a really uh early version about a year out of drama center, and I was looking for jobs, as we as we all do, and I was sort of like, oh well, I'll I really want to showcase my sort of musicality and also my acting as well. And I just wrote this thing. Hell yeah. And it was a piece of shit, and um it's taken a long time, and a lot of a lot of people have looked over it and offered advice, which I'm very grateful for. Oh good. And um, we've got a team together now, and uh we're shooting early next year. So it's all coming together. It's yeah, I'm really excited about it. I'm so happy to hear it.

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

And can you tell us what it's about?

SPEAKER_00: 7:50

Yeah, so it's about a drummer, and he lives with his single mum, and they are sort of down on their luck. Um, they're not in a super great financial position. And he sort of comes across this opportunity to audition for this academy, which he thinks will sort of set him up to be a great musician and and ultimately have the money to give him and his mum a great life. Yeah. But uh he gets to the audition and realizes that there's an audition fee and he can't afford anything. So then he begs, borrows, and steals. And uh yeah, there's a bit of sort of um a test of his morals. Yeah. I have uh influences from good time and also from like sound of metal. Yeah, yeah. So there's lots of um crime and there's lots of uh yeah, really sort of dark and uh dark themes, yeah. Nice. So yeah, when I was thinking about the film, I was like, oh, what I want it to sort of visually look like and and and feel like, and I thought, yeah, Sound of Metal. Yeah, I love Riz Ahmed as well. Yes, he's such a good actor. Yeah, and that's quite dark as well, as opposed to Whiplash, which is quite jazz and quite sort of specific. Yeah, Sound of Metal's a bit a bit darker, a bit sort of uh more violent.

SPEAKER_01: 9:02

Yes, so yeah, because Sound of Metal's not so much that you don't actually hear that much music in Sound of Metal. Correct, it's it's more about him and it's so it's so in internal and yeah, so that's sort of the vibe.

SPEAKER_00: 9:15

Yeah, I love it. Sound of metal and and crossed with good time. So if they had like a film child, yeah. This would be it. Oh hopefully something like that. Are you acting in it? I'm acting in it, yeah. Nice. Um yeah, I've got a director, DOP, producer, I've got a whole team how we get together.

SPEAKER_01: 9:32

So it's such a good idea. Obviously, you're writing a film that you you know, an interesting story that you've got, you know, mulling around your head, but you're you're doing such a good thing in terms of making something that you want to see, but also giving yourself a platform to showcase your work in terms of your acting, your writing, and your um musicianship as well. It's yeah. I'm envious, man. Oh, I wish I had it in me, but it's so good.

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

I tell you what though, I think this whole process has been so much more valuable than just the film itself because it's it's opened up so many more doors, yeah, so many more sort of opportunities for writing, I think, as well, and sort of story and and ideas. And I I've got this like hostage hospital situation that I want to shoot as well. All these little sort of things that just sort of appear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:20

Um, I think once you open the floodgates and and and like give yourself permission to do it and show yourself that you can do it, and that a team will gather around you to support you, you realize like the opportunities are kind of endless, and and yeah, it you can really run with any idea that you've got, you know, it's not just an idea, then you can you can actually make something from nothing, which is so exciting. Is core a feature or a short? Core is a short. Nice.

SPEAKER_00: 10:46

Yeah, we're going for about 10 minutes. I hear on the sort of festival grapevine that eight to twelve is sort of like the sweet spot. Yeah, and that was quite tricky as well, sort of having a story that you have dynamic characters, but also, you know, um people that you can empathize with and and a story that's not too, you know, sort of out there so people can follow and and um that's tricky in 10 minutes. That is so hard, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 11:15

Yeah, I know. F from from the sort of synopsis that you've given me, that's I I can't even imagine how you fiddle that in ten minutes. So yeah. But maybe it'll lead to a feature. Well look, yeah, you never know. Or I hope so.

SPEAKER_00: 11:26

Uh yeah, that'll be cool.

SPEAKER_01: 11:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 11:28

Are you interested in directing? Uh not at the moment. Okay. I think um I can't quite act yet. I've not I've not sort of mastered that part yet. That's a lie. I don't think you know yourself. I've seen you act. Thank you, man. Well, look, I certainly want to sort of give acting a proper go and sort of try and uh include myself and sort of spread my wings. Yeah. And then you know, if if the opportunity comes further down the line when I've got the experience behind me, then yeah, maybe. What about you? So would you Me? Yeah, would you want to direct?

SPEAKER_01: 12:03

Hell yeah. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do when I was working. I studied filmmaking 15 years ago.

SPEAKER_00: 12:09

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_01: 12:10

That's not long. Which which is wild, because I must have been five, because I'm only 20. Right, yeah. Well, I can play 20, that's my stage, stage age. But yeah, I always wanted to be a director, and I went to film school to do that, and and I just kind of got disheartened by the industry at some point around 2010. I was volunteering on on a lot of films and I was hungry, like literally hungry, because you just put so much time into just doing stuff for nothing, and and so I I just had to go and follow a different career just to, you know, survive. Yeah. So it I put it on the back burner, like filmmaking. I put it on the back burner, um, and I always said, I'm not going to work for I just always thought I'd leave it as as a hobby for myself one day, which is what I'm doing now. So it's taken me 15 years to actually start doing that. Yeah. But yeah, it went to music and then and then acting, and filmmaking is sort of making its way back into my heart again, which is kind of cool. Just by default, because of all the you know, the the content that you have to make for yourself. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 13:14

I think that's the thing nowadays, isn't it? We spoke about it before. Yeah. Just outside, it's like you can't just be an actor anymore. No. You have to be a director, yeah, be a cinematographer and be an editor, and yeah, you have to know all these things because when self-tapes are so sort of trivial, yeah. You know what I mean? You hear stories about how custom directors will look at the thumbnail, and if the thumbnail doesn't attract them, then you know they'll move on. So it's sort of it's so you know, you have to be able to a jack of all trades.

SPEAKER_01: 13:43

Yeah, you know, now you do not just yeah, it's it's more than just the self-tape, and it's it's really the whole package. It is a lot of work to be an actor, and there's not a whole lot of guarantee that it'll anything will happen, you know. And it's like being a full-time actor doesn't now it doesn't necessarily mean you are acting full-time, it means you are full-time marketing yourself and staying really active, and it's it's constant, it's 24 hours a day, you know. It is um, which is exhausting and very daunting for new actors, I would think.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

Definitely. When I went to drama school, obviously all my teachers grew up or grew up in the industry in a different time. Yeah. So social media wasn't around, and you know, we have these questions of what's the best way to market myself, what's the best way to, you know, uh put myself out there, and and they don't really have an answer.

SPEAKER_01: 14:36

Because that you know that's a great point because it's it's one of those things, like it's a it's an industry that evolves so quickly. It's like um it's the same with like tech, right? Like the camera that I bought 10 years ago was obsolete in about a year. But like it's but the acting industry or the film industry, and now it's like who knows what's gonna happen with it now. I'm terrified of what's AI and everything. It's evolving so quickly, so it is kind of hard to advise students on what to do and how to go about it. So, yeah, I mean, fair play to them, you know, you can only teach so much, but it's one of maybe the best lesson you can get from any any school or any advice you can sort of receive is that you have to sort of stay on your toes and stay sort of updated and evolve with the industry and problem solve constantly, think outside the box constantly and be prepared for the worst, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 15:29

Yeah, but also in that it's just remembering who you are as well. I think because doing all that's fine, but unless you are building a brand that is, you know, in parallel to who you are and your sort of artistic preferences, yeah, then it feels too artificial. It feels, you know, then you you end up cringing yourself at what you're doing because it just doesn't feel you.

SPEAKER_01: 15:52

Yeah, because I think ultimately you're doing this because you're chasing something that you enjoy. And if you're trying to please whatever audience is um sort of gravitating towards you, you're just gonna end up sort of on on you know, div diverting onto this this weird path where you've you've evolved into something that's not quite yourself. Yeah, and ultimately, you know, you have to protect the artist, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 16:16

Well what I what I think is so interesting is that you know you can market yourself as a you really like indie music, for example, that's sort of like you know, you dress a certain way, which is maybe reflective of the the type of style you like, or you know what I mean? And um once you've established that brand, yeah. In my head, I'm then thinking, well, the people only see you as that one thing, you know. I want to be, I want to be able to act in everything, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:43

It's kind of like okay, like typecasting kind of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:47

You create a brand for yourself, but then are you typecasting yourself by doing that? Yeah, you know, to the industry. So it's quite a tricky thing to sort of balance, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 16:55

I think that comes down to sort of finding your voice. And um, when you first start putting work out there or or getting work, you know, if anyone happens to be watching, people will sort of yeah, they'll put you, they'll put you in their own little boxes, I think. But I think I think that's where you just you write one thing and then you just write the next thing and and just let let it evolve and the audience can catch up if they if they want to. But they will become attached to the the first ideas that they see of you and that and the boxes that they make for you, they put you in. And I think it's only it's only difficult for them to move on, you know. For yourself, you know, you you have to be yeah, exactly. You have to be evolving all the time because we're changing all the time as people. That's true. I mean, it's like when when a new band comes out, like the strokes, right? Everybody hated their second album because they wanted, is this it again? And they're like, Well, we've that was yeah, that was how we were feeling then, you know. This is how we're feeling now. And so each album is is going to be a a brand new audience, you know. But all the guys that like the music right at the start, they wanted it to be the same the whole way through, you know. No one nobody ever likes a second album, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 18:02

Unless you're Oasis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless your second album is Morning Glory, which is the greatest album of all time.

SPEAKER_01: 18:09

Well, let's do you want to talk about Oasis? Yeah, all right. Because we have we have a um we have an interesting connection here, and um I I I feel like you've earned yours way more than I did. I kind of fell into my movie playing him, man. Come on. No, but I'm not taking any any sort of ownership.

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

You got the week there, man.

SPEAKER_01: 18:27

That was just for the reels, you know. Was it? Yeah, that's not they didn't use that in the movie. Oh, okay. No. No, that was my real hair in the film. I had hair.

unknown: 18:34

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01: 18:35

Yeah. Oh, cool. I know. It wasn't that long ago. Fell out real quick. The stress of the stuff. The stress of yeah, yeah. Waiting for the film to come out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but we we have a we have a common connection, um, which is interesting. So what what is that? Tell me about your connection to Oasis.

SPEAKER_00: 18:53

Well, I'm in a I'm in an Oasis tribute band.

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:57

Called Noasis. Um, and I play Noel Gallagher live on stage. So how funny is that? It's quite funny that we've got another Noel Gallagher, two Noel Gallagher's.

SPEAKER_01: 19:09

Yeah, and just just for anyone that doesn't know, I banged the drum a lot, but I did I played Noel Gallagher in Better Man for about 10 seconds. Still, you were there, man. Yeah. And Robbie Williams had some nice things to say about you. He did, yeah. It was very nice. Yeah. But how funny is that? We're we're both Noel Gallagher's. I know. Did you when did we meet? Because I wonder if we if that came up. It wouldn't have been out yet when we first met.

SPEAKER_00: 19:32

No, we first met. I remember we met in Urn Malley. Oh, that's what I've got. And we were watching. Yeah, we were watching um there was like a showing of SA shorts, yeah, done by repeater productions. Repeater productions. And um, yeah, I remember we were chatting and you were like, hey man, like so what do you do? And I'm like, oh, I'm playing a band, I you know, I'm playing this thing called Noasis, and you're like, oh that's sick, man. Hey, I I just played Noel Gallagher in this film, and I was like, Such a fucking flex dude, man.

SPEAKER_01: 20:01

Oh yeah, and I run a I ran a half marathon last weekend. How far did you run? What time do you fucking what time did you do your facial ice bar thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we'd we'd followed each other on Instagram for a while, I think. I was like, man, who's this who's this guy's cool ass, man?

SPEAKER_00: 20:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

Likewise, man. I mean, you don't you're not often someone tells you that they've you know played a part in such a like a big movie as well. Especially at the time because it sort of didn't yeah. I you told me and I was like, oh like yeah, cool. And then you know, as as we do, we don't hear about the film for like ages. Yeah, and then eventually it drops, and it's like, oh shit, that's actually. Yeah, I kind of forgot about it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:39

It was like three years. It wasn't it? Yeah, post-production took like three years or something.

SPEAKER_00: 20:44

Well, all the like VFX and that.

SPEAKER_01: 20:46

Yeah, yeah. I mean huge VFX heavy film. Um where did you shoot that? Can you say? Melbourne. And and the UK. Oh. You didn't go to the UK. No, no, we I shot my scene in Melbourne. Yeah. It was sweet. Chucked me in a hotel for a week just for my one day on set. It's cool, man. Yeah, it's really cool. It was really fun. So tell me about an Oasis though. So it's it's like probably one of the I I don't know, but I would think it's one of the biggest Oasis tribute bands in the world.

SPEAKER_00: 21:15

Yeah, well, I'd certainly say so. I reckon, eh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

Because you guys were originally based in the UK, as in your so you okay, hold on.

SPEAKER_00: 21:25

Let me tell you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:26

Yeah, you tell me. Sorry, man. Yeah, you tell me.

SPEAKER_00: 21:28

You tell me. I'll give you the origin story. Yeah. So uh it's 1996, Oasis are sort of on the come up, slash in their peak. Um, and everyone wants to see them, and all the tickets are selling way too quick. So my dad said, I've got an idea. We'll create an Oasis tribute band, and we'll play the songs, and people will come and can like celebrate and you know, sing along. Yeah, and they did really well for quite a few years. That it started that long ago. Yeah, in 96. I remember the first wild, man. The first gig they played um was on the same night as Oasis and they sold they sold out to 500 people on their first gig, like yeah, because the demand was there for it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

That's amazing. Yeah, wow, yeah. How old are you? 23. So you weren't. I wasn't alive, no one. Yeah. Wow, man. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, yeah. So um how what happened?

SPEAKER_00: 22:24

Um, so yeah, he did it for a couple years and then sort of moved on. Yeah. And um some of the original members uh uh stayed on and they'd found a new Liam and they were doing their thing. Right. And eventually they've left, but there's still an Oasis in the UK. Uh an oasis. Yeah. An oasis in the UK. Yeah. But Dad, when we moved here to Australia, he um reformed it about five years ago. And um yeah, did did a couple gigs for about a year, did alright. And then um their Noel Gallagher sort of parted ways, and then he asked me to come along and it was just like, just come play the chords and you know, we'll just chill out. And if you're any good, then you know we might keep you for a bit. It it was more so like you're just a placeholder until we find you know someone that could fill that role. And then Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 23:14

So did your dad always play Liam? Yeah, and did he do when was the first album?

SPEAKER_00: 23:19

94, maybe 96 was when they played Nebworth. So it was quite a bit weird. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 23:25

So but everyone knew about his mannerisms and everything. Because I was wondering like whether your dad had like perfected all the you know the stance and the stance has been there, yeah, since day one. But I think, yeah. Because he nails it now, man. It's awesome. And he chucks in his bucket hat and his his cute park yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:44

Oh come man, he's got all the gear, yeah. Yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_01: 23:47

So what about what about guitar?

SPEAKER_00: 23:48

Like, when did you start playing guitar? Uh a long time ago. I've I don't actually know how long. Um, but dad taught me sort of the first few chords on that. It was a Wonder Wall. It was the chords of Wonder Wall, but I don't know if it was in a different order.

SPEAKER_01: 24:04

Is it a different key? Which is most oh okay. All right, so it was Wonder Wall, but yeah, yeah. Maybe all right, yeah, yeah. That's everyone's first song, eh?

SPEAKER_00: 24:12

Yeah, yeah, or like smoke on the water, like just on the E-string, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah classics. Yeah, he taught me how to play guitar and then I just used YouTube, man. Yeah. Like, yeah, a lot of self-taught videos and um and did you play any other instruments? Not at the time. Recently I could sort of I've extended a little bit. Yeah. I can sort of play a bit of piano, a bit of drums. Nice. Um, so yeah, what about you? You got a few.

SPEAKER_01: 24:37

Me? I I uh instruments around. Yeah, this is the this is a museum. It's the den, man. Chris Gunn Museum in here. The relics. And I I'm the only customer. Yeah. I was sitting here like, wow, what a life. It's nice. Um I I started playing piano when I was four. Wow. And I was getting the lessons when I was about nine or ten, and then I lost interest because my teacher was just born. My dad was teaching me Beethoven, like you know, Moonlight Sonata, which I think it's like a pretty standard it's not easy, but like it's not a lot of people can play it, right? It's a good it's a good one to learn, right? Dad taught me that. He taught me everything. My dad, he's a he's a legend, right? Um, and probably when I was about 13, I my parents bought me a guitar and I did lessons for a year and then lost interest, and my guitar just sat next to me for a year. And maybe about 14 I picked it up again. Well, I don't know if the timeline's a bit messed up there. Acoustic or electric uh no, it was a strap. It was one of those like Fender um squire, you know, cheap choppy but like a strap. Yeah, strap. Yeah squire thing, yeah. Same.

SPEAKER_00: 25:44

Yeah, yeah. They're great, yeah. Three-quarter, like red one, oh real squire little mini thing.

SPEAKER_01: 25:49

Yeah, I had like a my parents got this like six hundred dollar like um the kit, like the kit with the little amp, and yeah, cool. And but after a year of not touching it, we had this builder come to um do an extension on our place, right? He was an old friend of my mum's, and he's this like old British geezer man, and he was like an old rocker. He like toured with the Who and stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 26:10

What?

SPEAKER_01: 26:10

Yeah, yeah. Like in in whatever band he was playing in, yeah. Phil, he was he was funny as but he would come over and be like, You playing that guitar, mate? Yeah, and I'd be like, No, no, not really. But but he he brought over a uh DVD live at Slane Castle, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and I put that on, and he's like, You gotta watch this, man. And I I put that on and I just fell in love. I was like, like the energy on the stage and the running around and like the nakedness and and like the just the yeah, the I don't know, flea, you know. Flee, man. I was like, I want to do this, and I was just jumping around the lounge room just watching this DVD at like 14 years old, just like obsessed with the energy of that that concert. And so then I just started looking up tabs and watching YouTube. Well, no, YouTube wasn't even around then, it's how old I am. But what looking up tabs online and like um downloading music videos off um lime wire and stuff, you know, before yeah, yeah. Why early internet, you know, yeah, and just like learning by yeah, and I'd sit in my room for seven hours a night just playing chili pepper songs, yeah. So that was my that was my like those are my yeah, those are my boys, you know. I loved it. I just was obsessed, and now I it's sort of I don't listen to the chili chilies much anymore, but like I always have a place in my heart, you know. Chili's been, yeah, yeah. Funk. Yeah, yeah. I loved it. I just like jump around my room and just pretend to play my guitar and stuff. I loved it.

SPEAKER_00: 27:34

You reminded me of this story, um, or this like it was really funny. I think my mum's got a video somewhere, but it was like um when I was when I was a lot younger, uh my parents were were really into the like chilies, um like rage as well, rage against the machines, yes, yes, and like um Metallica and Nirvana. So I got quite sort of like an early education in like rock. Yeah. And there's this video of like um me and my brother, and I'm in like this wetsuit, but I've got this like guitar, and for some reason we had these like huge wigs, like huge afro wigs. I don't know why, but my brother and I are in like matching like wetsuits, and we're just playing and they've got killing the name in the background, and we're just like throwing our head at it. Yeah, how cute. You just reminded me of that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:22

Yeah, gosh. Oh, there was something when I listen to that old older music, it's something in me that energy just comes back. Listen when I listen to System of a Down or Rage Against the Machine. Oh man, I just get I just feel so happy, you know. And even even chili peppers, like um, I'm just some I'm just an I feel like such an old fogie now, you know. I don't know, like when I those old bands, oh although my sister-in-law Musgan, who's who's in the other room there, um, you know, she moved over from Nepal like two years ago, and she she'd never heard of System of a Down. And like one day we're on a road trip, and I was cranking it, and I'm like screaming like she's like, what the hell? What's going on? But Muskan knows every System of a Down song now. She knows all the lyrics because she she just like got fully obsessed with them, and she she comes home now and opens the door, and she just coming in, like I love it. I'm so proud too. That's like this is what it was an education. Proper education and music. I love it, man. Yeah. So what other bands, what other bands did you grow up on? Like Oasis, obviously Oasis was the band, right?

SPEAKER_00: 29:35

Oasis was I listened to it a lot. I think not consciously though, it was sort of always on in the background. Yeah. Um definitely chilies, definitely um I listened to Yeah, Nirvana. I remember my mum bought me um like the Nirvana Greatest Hits album for like one of my young birthdays, and yeah, put it in my CD player and would just like listen to it on repeat and stuff. And yeah, Metallica.

SPEAKER_01: 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:02

Um, really like, yeah, I'm I'm quite grateful to have such a uh good education in music from like quite early on. I feel like that influences a lot of my taste. Yeah, bro. And um yeah, there's something about the production back then, yeah, in the in the 90s, where it was just raw and then it and it is that energy that you're on about where it's just like it wasn't overproduced and it wasn't, you know, super electronic. You've got all analog gear and it's all you know what I mean? Yeah, everything's got a purpose and it's just energy and passion.

SPEAKER_01: 30:33

Yeah. I miss it, man. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm happy to stay in this bubble of nostalgia and and and never move on, to be honest. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen in the future with art and music and film, but yeah I'm I'm quite happy to live in this world. Pause right now, never leave this room, you know? Yeah, it's good. Posters and everything. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Like this is the night of the 2000s, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um so how'd you how'd you fall into acting then?

SPEAKER_00: 31:04

So I grew up in the UK. I was born in a place called Derbyshire, and I attended this thing called Stagecoach, which was like a three-hour block on a Saturday, and it was like an hour of singing, an hour of dancing, an hour of acting. Nice, and yeah, it was it was really good, and I feel like that was quite foundational for me. And they used to have these like pin boards where they would put up like general auditions, and so walking into the building, you could like look and be like, oh, there's like this musical on, and you know, you'd put your name on the on the board, and then yeah, it was almost like yeah, an agency almost built into the school as well. Ah, sick, yeah. So that was really cool. So I did a lot of um musical theatre, I did a lot of um yeah, touring musical theatre in like London and Boston and Nottingham. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so I did like Yeah, you must have been quite young then. Yeah, really young. How old were you? Um eight, nine, seven, eight. Wow. Yeah. I played like uh That's awesome, man. I was in like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and like played like little one of the little like uh sewer kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in like Wind in the Willows and Beauty and the Beast. Classics, yeah. Yeah, I don't know, just just touring musicals, but I yeah, that's that's where it started. Yeah. And then yeah, we moved here and um I did it in school, but not not as much.

SPEAKER_01: 32:18

How old were you when you moved here?

SPEAKER_00: 32:19

Uh 11. Right. Straight to Adelaide or straight to Adelaide, yeah. Yeah. I have family that are here, so it was quite an easy jump. Yeah. But yeah, I didn't really do acting sort of whilst I was I did it in school, but I didn't do it outside of school, I didn't take acting lessons or anything like that. I was really sport-oriented. I really really yeah. I used to play basketball and I used to swim and I used to play water polo and uh yeah, I was pretty pretty committed to all of that, so that was cool. And um in terms of like career and that, I didn't really uh think about going to drama centre or like studying really until I was in halfway through year 12. Yeah. And uh you know the audition tape that Daker Montgomery did for Billy, Stranger Things. Yeah. So there was a time sort of yeah, about five years ago where that was everywhere. Yeah, and it was on my Facebook, and I and I watched it and I was like, wow, this is incredible, it's dynamic, you know. And then I like stalked him and I saw that he went to Whopper and I was like, oh what's that? Like I don't and then I saw that it was a performing art school and I was like, oh shit, you can you can actually go and like study this. Like this is a thing that people do, you don't just fall into, you know, yeah, a movie. So that was yeah, that was it. On on that day, I like changed my mind that I didn't want to, you know, be a physio or sort of work in sport anymore. I I wanted to follow my true passion.

SPEAKER_01: 33:38

Oh, that's awesome, man. So yeah. And then you went to Flinders Drama Center. I did, I went to Flinders, yeah. And here you are. And here we are, you know. But you mentioned before that you you feel like you're only just figuring out the acting thing. I've seen you perform, man. Have you? I haven't seen any films you're in though. Are you in have you done many films?

SPEAKER_00: 33:56

I've done a few. I've got it's funny, it's that thing you I did quite a few last year, but they're only sort of sort of. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You haven't seen any of them yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've got one in AF. It's called Into the Earth. Oh Benji's in there. Yeah, yeah. He played my dad. No way. Yeah. Oh, awesome. Oh, can't wait to see that. Yeah, good. Me too. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I've got that and I did uh some other work for like the Samstag um exhibition that they've got going on, which is all about masculinity and stuff. So I've been really lucky this year. I've done quite a few projects. It's just sort of the trickling through and getting through posts.

SPEAKER_01: 34:32

Yeah. Well, I saw you in the ugly one. Yes. That was so good. Oh, thanks. Yeah, you got you were like such a such a talented ensemble, man. Like I was laughing my ass off. Yeah, were you? Yeah, I don't I felt bad for a minute. I was laughing so loud. And like the stage It's quite intimate, wasn't it? It was quite a right there. Yeah, I mean it's not really a stage, it's just a floor. Yeah, and we're just surrounding you. Yeah, we're introverted. Touch you. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, I was laughing so hard. I I was like, I had to stop myself and I'm shit. They can hear all this. I should probably just chill out a little bit. It was so good.

SPEAKER_00: 35:05

I thought I heard your voice. Oh, what the fuck is this shit? Should we go crazy?

SPEAKER_01: 35:12

No, it's good. It's it's a really good play. Really good, man. I loved it. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 35:16

Yeah, and I miss doing that. I think um, yeah, when you when you train in theatre predominantly, you know, and to jump to film, it's quite jarring. It is, yeah, it's so different, eh? Yeah, yeah. And um I'm really lucky to be able to, yeah, to be able to do theatre and I want to I want to keep doing it and I'll be. Good man.

SPEAKER_01: 35:33

Yeah, it's really you had a great presence on the stage, man. Yeah, it was awesome. You played like multiple characters. How many characters characters did you play?

SPEAKER_00: 35:41

Uh I played we all played two except for James Starbuck. He played um Letter, which was the the main guy, yeah. The ugly one. Yeah, yeah. He was the ugly one, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 35:52

Yeah, but the the shift I found the shift between characters was so clear, and the scene changes, and even the time jumps was so clear. It was like just the change in uh mannerisms and and like posture, and it was instant. And you could tell, like the audience knew exactly where we were.

SPEAKER_00: 36:12

It was really well done, man. That's good. I think I'm not sure how it is for you, but I really like uh physicality, and I feel like for my characters, I sort of start there, yeah. Quite a physical person, and then sort of, yeah, if I can figure out how they walk or how they sort of sit and hold them. Yeah, physicality is quite a um a big thing for me. I played um uh we did this movement piece and I played Skellig, who was this like decrepit old man, and he's got um he's actually an angel, but he's living in this kid's garage, like this basement, and uh he keeps getting fed all this like Chinese food. But anyway, we had to do this assignment where we had to film sort of us playing like these characters. Yeah. And that for me was just like it was the best. And and like just sort of holding my body and holding my hands, thinking about how you know, if it's an animal, how how do they, you know, how do they operate, how do they sort of look and and use their features of their body to sort of communicate or not communicate or move, you know? It was quite, yeah, quite a valuable experience. That at Flinders, you that was it? Yeah, that was at Flinders, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 37:16

Oh, there's so many things I feel like I missed out on, and I'm um I'm glad I'm doing this because I get to hear about it more and and absolutely and know what you don't know, and you don't know what you haven't tried, you know what I mean? So it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 37:27

Yeah, yeah. I'd say so, but then you know, there's always the grass is always green on the other side. I feel like I have much less experience in film and sort of relationships than that, you know. The Flinders is quite a a solitary thing, you know. You've got a class of 12 people, yeah, and you have your family, and generally the rules are that you shouldn't be auditioning externally. Yeah, it's isolated, but it's it's for a good reason. It's uh they have a sort of outlook on the experience that we don't want to enter you into the world as a Flinders graduate until you're fully prepared. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but yeah, it was great. I love Flinders. Good. And um I'm so glad I um was lucky to do a bit of music as well. What at Flinders? I was lucky to, yeah, uh do some scoring of plays and stuff. Yes, because you you um you you do that, right? You score film score films, I'd like do production in general and make beats. I like I do yeah, a bit of it all. But yeah, I was lucky to sometimes uh the play that we were acting in, they were like, we we need music and you know, um would you would you be interested in doing that? So hell yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 38:38

So do you write aside from like scoring, do you write your own music for yourself?

SPEAKER_00: 38:42

Like, yeah, I try to. I'm I'm I'd say I'm more of a musician producer than a lyricist, yeah, slash artist. Uh I really like melody and my brain sort of hears melody before lyrics. I don't know about you. Do you hear me?

SPEAKER_01: 38:55

I was talking about this with my sister today. Yeah, really, because she's learning the drums and she's she's like I'm she's finding it really hard because she's never she said she never really noticed drums in music before. Wow. And I found that really interesting because I don't know lyrics either. I know I we don't notice them. I don't notice like and I was saying to her, like when I when I listen to music, even my favourite bands, I couldn't tell you what the lyrics are. I was sing along, but if you took the music away, I'll just be going, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like I know the melody. Yeah, yeah. But but it's the I I'm listening to the beat and and all the the layers of all the all the different instruments stuff and mutation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the placement of of of the actual instruments.

SPEAKER_00: 39:36

Like I've done a bit, a bit of work with artists who write their own stuff and we sort of collaborate and we'll make we'll make songs and and they're like, oh, I don't I don't really know what I'm sort of saying there. And I'm like, I don't know, man. I'm just focusing on like synth three and making sure that the high-end comes through and you know what I mean? So it's quite an interesting collaboration in that respect. Do you write lyrics? Yeah, I write lyrics.

SPEAKER_01: 39:58

Yeah, so that was that was always my downfall. No, not a lyricist. Well, I don't I probab probably could, but it's where I felt most self-conscious. Sure. Self-conscious. Yeah, self-conscious. Thanks. Yeah, well, it is, it's quiet. See? See what I mean? Don't even know if I'm saying the right words when I'm in a conversation. Self-conscience.

SPEAKER_00: 40:18

Well, it is, it's quite a good example. I guess maybe it's because of oasis and that, but some of the lyrics in that are quite nonsensical anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 40:25

So that does that does um, yeah, it gives you license to just do whatever the hell you want.

SPEAKER_00: 40:31

So I guess, yeah, that's where I I sort of started was like, oh, just sort of like just get anything down. Yeah, and then make it sort of match to the sibilance of the of the drums or the melody or sort of that's probably how most songwriters work, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 40:45

Like just start with the mumble and I mean look at Keatis. Yeah, he doesn't even move on from the mumble. He just goes, that'll do. Yeah, I know, yeah. I always got caught in in the comparison thing, you know, with music. I mean, I was playing music for for years, but I only ever did covers. And I built a pretty good following on Instagram with it and YouTube, and then I kind of hit a brick wall because then I realized my okay, I've got a bit of an a bit of an audience, but I really got nothing to show them, and I just couldn't write music. I probably could, but I never really put the work into it, and I just kept hitting blocks with comparison and yeah. So so you know, props to you for just starting and and starting to write your own, you know, melodies and beats and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 41:30

Yeah, I've I've I've I've made I've made songs, but you know, they're very easily scrapped. I don't know about you. I'll like pull up a project and I'll do a two-hour stint and I'll you know record all this stuff and like harmonies and that, and then I'll sort of sit back and I'll go, Well, that is awful. Yeah, it's just like I just quit the project and yeah, never see the light of day. They're still there though. A few of them are. Hope you save them. A few of them, yeah. And I go back occasionally and I go, Oh, yeah, that's that was alright. Maybe I'll use that later one day. You know, I think that's a good way to work. Yeah, not everything you make is gonna be good. You know, I think um Ed Sheeran had a really good um analogy where he was like, you know, as a songwriter or as an artist, you'll have um a tap, and once you open the valve, you'll get a lot of dirty water coming through, and you know, you've just got to get it out of the way because eventually you'll get to clean water. Yeah, it's sort of like yeah, that thing of just do it, just do it, just keep doing it. It it might be terrible, it might be the worst thing ever, but you know, you'll learn incrementally and you'll get better, and you know, you'll eventually get to the good stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 42:35

So yeah, I think I I think I turned the tap off before the water well turn it on, turn that clean, yeah. Yeah, I need to turn it back on. Yeah, I mean I've got the facilities now, you know. No, I actually my cousin and I my cousin is an amazing producer, he's like he's a hip-hop guy, right? And he's a genius. But we we started making some songs together, and they're and well, there's a few that have like the start starts of ideas, right? And then there's one that we actually finished really quickly, and it was the first one we worked on, and we we finished the whole thing in like in like two weeks without ever being in the same room. We we just bounced ideas, sent files to each other, yeah, and I mean he did all the work. I was just adding bass and guitar and and some vocals and stuff, but he put the song together, he did the theme music for this show. Do you know what?

SPEAKER_00: 43:22

Every time I listen to this, I'm like, I'm always I want to ask Chris who's the voice and who made the beat. And there you go. The voice is Muskan.

SPEAKER_01: 43:31

Yeah, really? The go plug. Yeah, that's Muskan. That's my sister-in-law. Yeah, I always drag her into my into my little like she she's uh she's in a lot of the um the Better Man Reels are made. You know when um she pulls my my my bucket hat off and grabs the guitar in that first one and and she threw the she threw the bucket of water on the window when I did the window. Yeah, so I'm always dragging her into my things. And sometimes I'll I'll be in here and I'll be like, Do you know how to do like a um what's that dolly shot from Jaws? You know that famous like it's like you zoom out, but but you're also pulling in. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what that's cinematographers, what's that called?

SPEAKER_00: 44:09

Oh like uh it's like a focus pool, but they're also moving. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 44:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I wanted I wanted to do that, and and so uh I was like teaching her how to do that, yeah. And I'm like, no, you gotta you gotta zoom out while you pull it back. And I'm like, don't worry about zooming out, I'll just I'll just track it in in post. And she's just getting annoyed at me because I'm like, no, hold it straight.

SPEAKER_00: 44:29

Anyway, I feel bad for like yeah, family members or or people that are connected to actors or content people because they're you know stop whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

It's like I need to make this very arbitrary thing that's all about me, yeah, right now, and you're you're involved. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

It's like I've got my setup, just I would say to my brother, I'm like, I need to frame up. Yeah, yeah. It's like I need to say more. What are you doing? Nothing, get in here, yeah. Frame up, come on, make me look good.

SPEAKER_01: 44:56

Put your entire life on hold for me. Yeah, yeah. Nah, Muskand did the voice, and um, I was very picky with the music though, with for Nick. Like, he's very patient with me. I I I've sent him a lot of reference tracks, and I was like, no, like this. And then he would send me something. I'm like, no, I changed my mind. Not that one, something else. And so in the end, I I just played the bass line. Did you? And I sent that to him, like, this is the tempo, this is the bass line, and do anything else you want to it. And he just he added the drums and the and the all the samples and stuff, and I was like, Yeah, that's the one. Boy, it's cool, good shit. Yeah, he's very talented, yeah. He's great. So I need to do more work with him. I'll show you the song after this. It's I'm really proud of it. And it's the first time that an idea for like a section of the song has come to me. Like it's I could I could just hear it. It's never happened before. It was like hell, like Led Zeppelin moment, you know. Struck by lightning, just like wrote stairway to heaven in my dream, you know. You know, I was I remember I was in the shower, and so the song, the song just kind of repeats the chorus. Like, you know, there's verses and a few choruses, and to end the song, we just kind of repeated the chorus a couple of times. I was like, nah, we can't just do that, it's so lazy. We need like a little interlude or something, you know. And uh yeah, I was in the shower, and and the the melody and the lyrics came to me in the shower, and I was like, holy shit, it just it's happened. Like run out and grab my guitar and grab my grab my notes and I'm like singing into my into my phone. Figured out the cause and guitar voice notes, yeah. That's yeah, and I was like, Nick, I got it, I got it, man. I got it. Send it across. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. Oh, no, he was stoked. He was he he was he he messaged back, he was like, You did it, man. I'm like, I did it. I wrote lyrics, I did it first time and last.

SPEAKER_00: 46:44

Hey, don't say that. Because you know what? I feel like it's funny how we sort of chase those moments that are like, yeah, when it hits you out of nowhere and you're not expecting it, but it is like it's just something, I don't know if it's like an impulse or yeah, I don't know what it is. Yeah, and it seems to happen in the shower quite often.

SPEAKER_01: 47:01

Like I'll get like a lot of showers now.

SPEAKER_00: 47:04

Like, come on, yeah, just like waiting for is it hot enough? Like, what's what's going on? Like all wrinkled, yeah. Like, come on, hardly. What the hell, man? Yeah, shower thoughts. I feel like that, and for me, it's like um the moment right before I go to sleep. Yeah, like if I can't quite sleep, or if I've been doing something, like writing the script, for example, and then I'll go, I'll like try and put it away, and I'll be like, okay, I need sleep now, I need sleep. Yeah, and I'll sort of lie there, and then things will trickle through. Yeah, it's like, oh, and you just get up and write it down the way.

SPEAKER_01: 47:35

Yeah, it's true. Like right before bed. It's so handy having your notes app, notes app now and and find your voice memos. I think I've got I think I've got lots of ideas in there. Yeah, me too. Like and then you totally forget about them and uh I'm inspired, man. I can't I can't wait. I'm gonna record some more music, I think. Send me some stuff, you know. Yeah, I will, I will, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:56

Send you a beat back, you never know. Yeah, dude, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:59

Nick my cousin, he's he's got so many ideas, and um, I don't know why I'm not utilising that. I'm just I've got no excuses now. But you know what? I put things off for a long time, and then when I'm like, okay, now I'm doing it, I do it. I bloody do it, you know what I mean? Like, so maybe I'm just waiting for that mountain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's gonna it'll happen. Yeah. That's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 48:22

I'm quite the same. Yeah, sort of I yeah, doing the film sort of really has taught me to be more timely and and set goals and sort of be like, okay, I need the script, sort of needs to be locked by this time, and yeah, you know, and that's it. And then once you've got it there and you're you say to yourself, it's like that it needs to be done, then you know, you do it, you hold yourself accountable.

SPEAKER_01: 48:42

Yes, it it makes such a difference because other we'll we'll just we'll just never tell ourselves it's finished otherwise. Yeah, we'll just always say, Oh, there's more to do, there's more to do. But you got some when you're working with someone else and they're saying just send what you've got, and you're like, Okay, fine. Yeah, I don't like this. And then you send it and they go, I love this. You know, I guess it's not up to me, is it? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 49:03

Bigger picture, yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_01: 49:05

And and I really loved doing that with like working like that, you know, having an idea sent to you once they've exhausted their sort of their tap, you know. And um, you know, they'll send it send an idea and then that'll spark ideas for me. And and then I'll work on it until I'm like, all right, that's that's all I got, have it back. Yeah, and oh man, it's such a good way to work. It is, yeah. Do you do you ever collaborate with anyone on like music or or writing or anything? Well, obviously you you got feedback on your script and stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 49:36

Yeah, I've um in the past I've like done little projects, but I think it's always yeah, having the time to sort of sit down and go, okay, well how what what are we making? You know what I mean? I've sometimes you I get a little too caught up in like, right, well, we need to do an EP and it needs to be five songs. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then then you sort of out of the the creative thing. Yes. So I think I sort of uh do it to myself a little bit, but I have this dream of like um going uh you you see those like those cabins that are like in super remote areas, like those wooden cabins. That's what I want to do, is I want to like the camera. Yeah, and just Bonavert did that, didn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people uh I saw this video on YouTube of Lizzie McAlpine and she did that. She sort of in LA or or somewhere in America. Um yeah, she went away with her producer and they locked themselves away and they wrote the whole album, and just having that like um documented as well, yeah. So cool. I would love to do that. Yeah, that sounds amazing, man.

SPEAKER_01: 50:42

But having the time and yeah, yeah, having time to lock yourself in a cabin for for a month, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:48

Having all the gear as well. I suppose that's the other thing. The gear, the knowledge, it's quite um it's accessible, but it it it does take time and it does take there's a lot of a lot of obstacles.

SPEAKER_01: 50:56

Do you have a setup at home?

SPEAKER_00: 50:58

I do. I have a desk, I have a little interface, a little setup.

SPEAKER_01: 51:02

I use Logic or FL Studio. Fruity Loops, man.

SPEAKER_00: 51:05

I love that. Yeah, yeah. It has like the channel rack, yeah, and you can like input all the all the drum sounds.

SPEAKER_01: 51:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh yeah, it's oh man. That's what Nick and I used to use when we're playing. You really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just make these stupid little rap songs, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 51:20

I've done that on tour a couple of times. Me and um the other Tom that's uh our sound engineer. Normally we room together. Right, yeah, and um I'll just be like making a beat like randomly on like FL Studio, and then he'll just start like spitting like absolute shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm I'm like, oh that's that's kind of cool. Yeah, and then we'll just like record it on the phone and then I'll just add it in the thing and then I'll just bounce it and send it to him. It's just fun. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 51:44

Man, I'm excited to see what you do, but like I I feel I feel like there's uh some kind of push or collaboration gonna happen. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I think we we should make it happen. Yeah, we should. Without without any sort of intention of, you know, without any restrictions or intention, you know, just see what happens. See what happens and have a have a muck around, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 52:04

That's it. I think so. I know we spoke about it a while ago. Yeah. But I reckon we're about due for it, you know. Yeah, it's we're due, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 52:11

We're due for it. So, okay, so what's what's the plan? What's happening now? What what do you the plan? Where do you go from here, man?

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

Well, I've got a few I'm lucky enough to have a few projects to finish off the year. Yeah. Um I another project coming up um called Long Flight Home, which is about the Great Australian Air Race. It's based on a novel. Their first flight from the UK to Australia. Well, it's not the first flight, but it's it was like the first race. So after the war, they sort of came up with this, with this competition to um yeah, to see you could get home to Australia the quickest from the UK. Yeah, okay. So um, yeah, it's called Long Flight Home and doing that in November, and then yeah, I've got a few Noasis geeks to finish the year and yeah, man. Then next year I've got my film at the start of the year, and then um, yeah, Taylor and I want to move to Melbourne. Oh no! Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01: 53:07

But we're losing a couple of good ones. We'll be back. I think that's that's what's so nice. I mean, no, you know what? That's awesome. God, make it about me. What a dude. Sorry, dude. Yeah, yeah. No, that's awesome, man. How exciting.

SPEAKER_00: 53:20

Yeah, I um I'm really excited for that because I think um, especially the music scene in Melbourne as well. Yeah, we spoke a little bit about it, but I'm keen to collaborate with artists in Melbourne in music as well as acting, of course, yeah, and film.

SPEAKER_01: 53:35

But so what's the plan once you get there? Do you do you know how many people there or yeah?

SPEAKER_00: 53:39

Um my friend Luke Wiltshire is there, and Isabella is there as well, and a few, a few others from drama center. So there's people there, which is really nice. Um yeah, and I sort of I think in the long term I'd really like to work back in the UK. I'd really like to be on a BBC drama and sort of um really sort of give that a go because I think personally it's some of the best writing in the world. Yeah, yeah. And um, given my position, I I I have uh a UK passport and I can I can do that, yeah. You know what I mean? Um so I'm very very privileged to have that as well. So yeah, it's really um long long term. I'd love to yeah, do a stint in the UK and yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01: 54:19

Just man, you're gonna be watching this video back one day and being like, I did it.

SPEAKER_00: 54:24

Yeah, well that would be quite cool. Yeah, I think that's what, yeah. I mean, I was excited to come on the podcast, but I I also thought that it's quite a cool little time stamp as well. Yeah. Sort of where we are in our careers and you know, in a year's time or whenever we can sort of look back on it and be like, oh, remember when I thought that you know I wasn't any good at this, and then yeah, now I've done that thing that you know.

SPEAKER_01: 54:46

How nice. So yeah, one day you'll be calling in from the UK online, doing another episode.

SPEAKER_00: 54:51

Or you, man, where are you gonna be?

SPEAKER_01: 54:52

You could be anywhere. Not leaving this room, mate. I'm locked in. I'll listen to a system of a down in here. Yeah, yeah. I don't know where I'll be, who knows?

SPEAKER_00: 55:01

Um that's what's cool, that's what's really cool about it, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 55:04

Yeah, but I uh as you said, like this is a nice little timestamp, but it's also for me, this is a diary, you know. This is where I'm at right now, and and it uh I'm I kind of get to document what's happening and expressing that to the people that I get to chat to, you know. Yeah. So we'll just follow the white rabbit, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00: 55:26

Yeah, yeah. So how's the um how's the pre-production going for core then? It's good. We had a production meeting yesterday. Oh, okay. And that went uh it went really well. Nice. And I feel like we've got this really great team uh of collaborators, and it's really funny because writing is such a solitary experience. Yeah. So you know, you spend so long and and you can picture the story perfectly in your head, but then as soon as you know you open it to other people, they add their little, you know, yeah bits of spice and and sweet, and um it really just like blossoms, yeah, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01: 56:02

Is it hard to like hand over sort of any sort of creative control over something that you've made like that? A little bit. Or putting your trust in other people, but but then witnessing them actually yeah, put their sort of their angle on things and their two cents in and and handing over trust, it must be kind of terrifying, right?

SPEAKER_00: 56:20

It is, it is a little bit, but I think it is about that trust and it's about sort of knowing the people and sort of having similar creative visions and and and uh goals and desires and ultimately I created the film because I want it to have a a really good show reel.

SPEAKER_01: 56:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:39

At the end of the day. Genius. Um as arrogant as that sounds, I guess. But um, not at all.

SPEAKER_01: 56:46

It's a it's a great, great thing to do.

SPEAKER_00: 56:49

Yeah, so I that's it at its center, but I also want it to do well as a film as well. And sort of it's sort of hand in hand because if if the film's great, then it will be in festivals and and hopefully and and um it'll be showcased, and then that sort of helps with the whole yeah, it's a show reel, but also showcasing you know the the actors that we have, which is which is um a gift, you know. Yeah, but it is hard. It is hard to sort of yeah, handball stuff over and collaborate, but it you know, you've got to kill your darling sometimes, and just because uh if you've created the right team in the right environment, then everyone will want to make it the best possible thing. Yeah, so it's like yeah, just just find the right people, yeah. People that want to support you and uh you know, believe in the project ultimately, and um yeah, hopefully it'll hopefully it'll go somewhere. But it's really interesting sort of diving into this writing world or or sort of screenwriting world because now I watch movies alongside the screenplay. I don't know if you do that. Really?

SPEAKER_01: 57:49

Yeah, oh that's an awesome idea.

SPEAKER_00: 57:51

Yeah, so I yeah. I haven't thought of that. Um there's a website. This is for everyone. This is the this is the secret source. Yeah. There's a website called Script Slug, I think, and it has like tons and tons and tons of screenplays. Yeah. So go on there, search it up. Yeah, it's more like more than likely that it will be there. Hell yeah. But yeah, like the other day, for example, I watched Nosferatu.

SPEAKER_01: 58:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:14

With the the screenplay alongside, and it's so interesting how things don't line up and and and scenes are rearranged and and you have the writer's intention, but but as soon as a team jumps on board, it sort of it blossoms into this other thing, and and you're reading it, and I and you know, as a as a as a creative, you're like, oh, I felt like that worked really well, or or I wonder why they sort of chose that, or you know what I mean? It's um such an interesting thing. You should try it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:40

So so yeah, I I definitely will. That's that's awesome. Um, screen slug? Is that what you said? Script slug. Script slug. And that that must be kind of difficult as well as the writer of your film and having a director collaborate with you, and and to sort of give in to the idea that it might it might change, it might evolve, or how much creative agency are you willing to let go of, do you think, in in your film?

SPEAKER_00: 59:03

I I think whilst we're in pre-production, I'm sort of still with it, but I'm more interested in the acting aspect. So as soon as we get to principle, it's gonna be very much that's your thing. That's that's why I've you know, that's why I want you here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm I've gotta focus on my thing because I need the performance to be, you know, as as good as it can be. Yeah. So I think that will be quite freeing as well. Yeah. And um, it's really, it's really nice to have people that I trust and that, you know, want the want the best for it. So yeah, it's um it's exciting, man. It's all new territory for me. But yeah, I hope, I hope that I can, you know, collaborate with people and create opportunities. And yeah, and that's that's it.

SPEAKER_01: 59:44

At the end of the day, it's like a really good way to network people I think people are just happy to be making stuff, you know. So thanks for making something, you know. Thanks for writing something, you know. Yeah. Yeah, man. I'm so excited to see this film. Um I'm so I'm so glad you're writing and mate, you're like a

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:00

Renaissance man, you know, you go no, well, uh I've uh we spoke about it before, but I feel like you sort of have to dip your toes into a few things to try and um create work for yourself and create opportunities, but by no means am I, you know, any good at any of them yet, but I strive to be, I strive to be um yeah, yeah, the best that I can be. And I and I and I want to collaborate and I want to, you know, my mind uh at the moment it's like it's working over time, so it's it's ready. I've got um I've actually got you in mind for something. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:38

I love that. Yeah, we'll we'll see, we'll see how this first thing goes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:42

I'm busy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:43

When is it? Oh, I think I'm washing my cat that day. Oh hell yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, it could be it could be really cool. Hell yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:51

But yeah, I'm I'm I'm yeah, I'm really grateful for the for the people that I've met this year. I think um it was such an interesting experience because I did a lot of reaching out in the first year that I left. Yeah, but then in the second year, sort of had done a few projects, clearly some form of reputation had been created into the fact that you know people started reaching out. Yeah, and I feel like that's such a valuable thing, you know. Um we're so quite self-conscious about what I am about reaching out. But then I'm like, but if someone messages me asking me a question or, you know, saying like, hey man, like I'd love to do this. Yeah, you're you're gassed. You're like, man, this is this is crazy. So for me, yeah, it was definitely sort of like, how do I switch my mindset to be like, you know what, I'm I'm gonna send that message and I'm gonna, you know, not in a kiss ass way, but you know, as a as a point of connection and a point of um Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:40

How many people just don't end up pressing send and never find the opportunity for the opportunities for themselves, you know? So yeah, send the message, man. Send the message, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:51

Send the message.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:52

You hear that kids? Send the message. Send the message.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:56

Um I sort of wanted to ask you about if you know if you have time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um at what point did you sort of decide to sort of pick up the content stuff? Because content is really important in sort of like the marketing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:10

I guess I guess it is, yeah. I mean it's helped.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:13

Helped, yeah, definitely. I'd say so. Well, I I think you're it it just puts you out there. Do you know what I mean? It just puts you above everyone else that's doing it. Yeah, and I and I say this because I look at the stuff you do and I'm like, oh it's really high quality, it's really sort of engaging as well, and and it's you, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And and I and that was quite inspiring for me. Oh, okay. Because I did like an I don't know if you saw, but I sort of did like a piece of camera explaining my film. Yes, I did see that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:44

Yeah, really good. Oh, thanks. Anyway, um did you did you put all that together?

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:48

Yeah, I edited all that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:50

You got all the skills, man. Well, likewise. It's but it's it's a lot of work. Yeah, you know, and it's kind of it it's it's really it it's really overwhelming for for actors, I think, because it's I I don't think it's completely necessary, you know. I think it's just like you know, you and you and me happen to have some technical skills, I think, in in filmmaking. And we're not experts necessarily, but we we you know we can we can work your camera and and edit something, you know. But I think it's a shame that content creation is so necessary as an as if you want to pursue acting at the moment.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:30

It is such a double-edged sword because it is. I look at like my sort of acting idols um or inspirations, and they're none of them are on social media because it is so toxic in a way, and I agree. And I don't know about you, but I sort of go in flows, um flows of sort of like, yeah, it's really cool and I'm inspired and I want to create this stuff, and then I'm like, God, I want to throw my phone in the lake, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:56

Like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I I hate social media. I mean, I wake up every day and I and the first thing I do is watch a video on Donald Trump, and I just yeah, I'm like, great, now he's just ruined my day, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:07

Yeah, that's how you start your day. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:10

Oh, awesome. Okay. Um, wow, yeah, what a horrible world. And then I have to like, all right, what do you think? What am I doing? You know, what am I doing with my day? You know, what what am I excited about, you know? But on the other hand, it is such an important tool that we can use to connect with people that we probably thought were on another planet that was totally inaccessible, you know, and to communicate your voice to whatever audience you are building. And as actors, we sh probably should be putting something out there, at least telling people what we're up to, or you know, sharing a a quick chat. Yeah, or chat to camera and telling your followers what you're thinking about at the moment. Yeah, you know. I think so.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:57

I think um it's that thing, as long as it's you, yeah, then that's it, then it will read. Yeah, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:05

People can smell dishonesty or I've mentioned this before, but it was the one one thing that I wasn't really putting out there on social media before I started doing like video content. I was just posting pictures and but people want to connect with the person, not the idea of the person, you know. So I started telling stories about, you know, and the Better Man stuff was just some, you know, succinct storytelling. Hey, by the way, this cool thing happened and this is how it happened and why it happened and what I did about it, you know. You know when you did them, did you like write a script and did you do the voiceover first? How did you did you go about it? No, I did not plan on doing that at all. I literally the first that voice the first one where I'm just speaking to camera, that was it. Just added the I just like you know, like a sort of podcast or whatever. Yeah, I just said, So here's how I did this. This is what happened, and I literally just told the whole story, and then I thought because you know, it was I was working as a window cleaner, which is true, and I thought, oh, it'll be cool to like have me like doing that, it'll be a cool transition. And I and then I shot that with my sister-in-law, and I was like, Oh, that that looked pretty sweet. And I'm like, Oh, maybe I could just act out more things, so I just kept adding things and just getting more and more ideas, and it just grew into this minute and a half reel or minute long reel. And I was like, Oh, that was pretty fun. And then and then I shot myself in the foot because I was like, I need to do another one. Follow for part two part two, and I hadn't even started part two, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:37

But that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:38

But it was so, yeah, like you know, writing sometimes you just you think you sometimes setting a restriction to yourself and saying you have to put out a part two next week, even if you don't have any idea yet, it forces you to come up with some ideas, you know. You know, the the um live forever video and I sort of referenced that one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:00

Who was holding the chair? Was it you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:02

My my mates Jack and Hayden, yeah, who I went to high school with.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:08

They were holding you on the chair.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:09

They were holding me on the chair, and and Shay, my other friend, she she wheeled a wheelie bin up to the chair, and I climbed onto that, and Jack and Hayden, I've got I've I've probably still have the footage. They held the chair, and then I I like climbed onto the chair, she ran out of the shot with the wheelie bin, and I just went, maybe, and I'm like, all right, bring it back, and Jack's going, Fucking hurry up, yeah. And it was about a five-second shot, and then she wheeled it back, she's like, Oh shit, shit, shit. It worked though, dude. Yeah, it works. Yeah, but poor Jack and Hayden, they like, I think I destroyed their shoulders, yeah. Yeah, but that was me in one of my manic phases where I'm like, okay, guys, I've got an idea. I actually have an idea for this video. We have to do it right now. I've got the chair, I found the chair on the side of the road, we have to do this right now, and I got the wig. I got the wig for$20 off um off the costume shop. It was the only costume shop that was open on a Sunday. They're like, all right, it's one of those things where you're like, hey, we're doing something for me right now. I don't care what you're doing with your day, yeah, right now is about me. Yeah, and they they know that version of Chris.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:15

But it works. They're like, oh, here he is. Not him again. Yeah, but that's it, it works. And and like that shot for me was so cool because I knew exactly where it was from as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:27

So it's so like, yeah, it's so But I the the day before I was I was like trying to think. I I had I had something in my head about about that shot about about referencing that music video, and I was like talking to my dad, I'm like, what if like I'm on the chair and like and we mount it to the wall, but then the the the chair breaks and I fall and and I and I'm like my dad how yeah how can we make like a contraption? You know, he's just like you can't. I'm like, ah, you're not help. Ah, I'll think of something else then anyway. So but I I literally had no ideas for that, you know. But I I like that, I like the restriction of that. But then you know, I did those three, and that were that was I was really proud of those, but I'm like, I can't do that anyway, I can't do that every week. No, no, I I yeah that was an exception though. That was like well, it it's one of those things you like when an when something interesting happens like that in your life, um, and it's and you can find a way to use it as a promotional tool, like you know, go hard with it. Yeah. Um, but that's why I started this, because this is like it takes the pressure off me. I can just learn from from my my peers and and we can clip this up in content mine and there you go.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:42

Yeah, exactly. I mean, um, because we were lucky enough to be on Rage. Oh yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was crazy. Yeah. Um, because you just get this email one day, and you don't know if it's like scam or nothing. You know, it's like check my junk, man. Yeah, it's like, yeah. So then we yeah, flew to Sydney. But I but I again documented all of it because I feel like, yeah, it was such an experience like like the one you've had where it was like, well, I have to sort of I have to document now, I have to sort of create a story around it because it's it just doesn't happen to everyone. So it is worth sharing. Good, do it, man. Yeah, put it together. Yeah, I will. I think it's showing it's not out yet, eh? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:23

Yeah, when I it's out in October, yeah. Yeah, when they get here. It's all good. Yeah, dude. It's all gonna happen. Where are you seeing them? We're talking about Oasis, by the way. Yeah, sorry. Obviously. Umas where are you seeing them? Which concert are you going to? Uh Melbourne on the uh Friday. Yeah, I'm going to Sydney. Oh yeah. Yeah.

unknown: 1:10:40

Nice.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:41

Oh man, I'm so excited, dude. I'll be in Sydney. We um I've got a private gig on a sounds so wanky, but we've got a gig on a yacht, on like a boat. We're playing like an acoustic unplugged on the day of the Sydney gig. Yeah. So sort of like a pre-show sort of like party celebration type thing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:03

We're playing there's like a gonna be looking out for them during the house.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:06

Oh, maybe. Well, we'll be like floating around in the harbour, yeah, playing like, you know, some tunes and that. But yeah, well, we're on the lookout.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:13

So um that's good. I I hope you put it together. Yeah, I will eventually once we once they uh there's just so much to do though. There's so much work constantly. This this has become everyday editing every day. It's yeah, but you know, it's um I love it. You know, I'm really I'm really proud of what what we're putting together here, you know, and it's a nice, as you said, it's a um what did you what where did you Yeah, like a timestamp. Yeah, it's a nice timestamp, yeah, of where we all are right now. And um, it'll be interesting to look back one day, you know. Definitely. I can't stop looking at that poster of Noel Gallagher and looking at you and just thinking they should have cast you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:56

Why?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:57

You were great, fork off corn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:00

That's yeah, that's all I said, yeah. But that clip of freaking Robbie Williams, man.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:04

Yeah, it's like it's like, yeah, that is the hair and everything, man. You acted so lucky with the hair, man, because I I literally lost my hair after.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:13

Oh, yeah, thanks. I did need an ore, yeah. You look good though, man. And you had you acted alongside um what was his name? Leo.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:24

Uh Leo Harvey Elled, yeah. Yeah, he's a legend, man. Was he alright? Yeah, he's uh the funniest dude. Yeah, right, man. So where can we find you on social media? Are you plugging yourself or you can find me at Tom Spyby on Instagram?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:39

All one word. Sweet ass. Plain and simple. That's it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:42

Yeah, cool, man. Thanks for having me. Dude, thanks so much for being here. That that was that was a great chat. Yeah, it was really good. Like we haven't, I feel like we needed to catch up. Definitely haven't really had a good chance to have fat. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been nice. Cool, man. Legend. Thanks, brother. Dude, thank you so much, man. Yeah. There you have it, guys. Just a couple of Gallagher, a couple of Noels. Thanks for coming on, man. That was a really nice chat. Yeah, as I said, please follow him on Instagram at Tom Spybe, follow core film, at core underscore film. And yeah, check out all the stuff that he's up to. He's he's very creative and very busy with all his creative work. Uh yeah, if you like the show, please share this episode. Um, also, one thing you can do if you want to help the show out, if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, leave a positive review. Write something nice about the show. Don't leave a negative review. If you don't like the show, just send me a DM and tell me that you hate it or listen to my other podcast. Go fuck yourself. Alright, guys, that's it for me. I'll see you next week. I'm about to have a break. I don't know if I'll have a break this week, uh, but I've got a couple of really good episodes coming up. But I think I'll call it a season pretty soon and then I'll have a couple of weeks off. But maybe I'll do a couple more episodes and then we'll have a little break for the season. Because you know, I need to sort of get some sleep. I've been editing for, you know, 12 weeks straight. If you haven't caught up on other episodes, make sure you go back and listen to the other nine episodes. There's some really, really good stuff on there. Really talented guests. I'm really proud of the work that we're doing here, guys. Thanks to all the guests that have come on so far, and thanks everyone for listening. Um, you guys have just been so amazing and supportive, so I really appreciate that. Alright, that's it from me. I will see you next week. My name is Chris Gunn, and hey, go pluck yourself.