Ep 15 Luca Sardelis: Building an Acting Career With Intent

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Happy New Year! Let this chat be the creative inspiration you need to kick off your year. This week I sat down with the incredible Luca Sardelis!

Luca Sardelis is a Greek-Cypriot-Australian actor, writer, and all-around maker, working across film, TV, and theatre. You might know her from lead roles in The Hunting (SBS), Nowhere Boys (ABC), and Deadlock (ABC), or from A Perfect Pairing (Netflix), The Tourist (HBO Max), and RFDS S3 (Channel 7). She trained in Shakespeare and Jacobean theatre at LAMDA in London and has performed in sell-out shows like Parlour Games (Adelaide Fringe) and her self-devised piece The Fish Rots from the Head(CRAM Collective), which is headed for screen production in 2026 with Mercury.

In 2023, she scored a Carclew grant to write and direct her first short, Nothing Gold Can Stay (We Made A Thing), and in 2024 she wrote, produced, and performed in the video art piece Aurora at Adelaide’s Household Gallery. Her work has also been featured in BAFTA- and Academy-qualifying festivals, including SXSW (I’m The Most Racist Person I Know) and Flickerfest (Spite, Cordelia, Daughter of the Sea).

She’s constantly pushing herself, telling bold stories across stage and screen, and has a stacked slate of indie features coming up, River, Love, Tea and Epiphany, Diabolic, Ruby Ruby, and Haven’t You Heard? Everyone Hates Me.

She’s a total inspiration and it was an honour to have her on the show! 

Available to watch on YouTube or listen on all podcast platforms

Chapters

• 0:00 New Year Check‑In And Gratitude
• 2:54 Host’s Busy Season And Plans
• 6:44 Introducing Luca’s Career Highlights
• 9:55 Setting The Chat: Artist’s Way Context
• 10:23 Warming Up And Morning Pages
• 15:20 Finance Detour And Creative Survival
• 18:07 RFDS, Set Culture, And Casting
• 22:48 Luca’s First Breaks And Mentors
• 27:24 Uni Years, COVID, And Reframing Goals
• 31:52 Stability Vs Unpredictability In Creative Life
• 36:26 Mentorship, Community, And Adelaide Solidarity
• 42:40 Training Without Drama School
• 47:04 LAMDA Intensive And Classical Tools
• 52:36 Choosing Growth: Intentional Vs Opportunistic
• 56:40 Diabolic: Accent Work And Horror
• 1:00:28 Theatre Vs Screen: Time, Prep, And Chemistry
• 1:06:28 Taste, Performance Truth, And Notes
• 1:10:16 Building With Your People And New Work
• 1:13:20 Wrap‑Up, Plugs, And Closing CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hi, my name is Lucas Ardelis and you should go pluck yourself.

SPEAKER_04: 0:16

Hello and welcome to Go Pluck Yourself, The Actor's Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. It's the first day of 2026. How are we feeling? Hold on. Hold on. That was a party popper for those in Radio Land. Happy New Year. I feel obligated as a as a podcast host to like provide you with some deep inspiration for the new year. But you know, I don't have much. Go at your own pace this year. Choose some attainable goals and celebrate the little wins throughout the year. Yeah, that's pretty good. My resolution last year was to start this podcast. And uh can I just say that I'm really proud of what we've created here? And by we, I mean me and you, the listener. I'm I'm really grateful for you guys, my loyal little listenership, and of course my amazing guests. Just the fact that any of these guys have been willing to take the time to come around to my little studio, my little spare room, uh, to take a couple of hours out of their day to chat with me and indulge me and my little project. I'm really grateful to all of you guys. Like what an incredible start this podcast has had, you know. Before I introduce today's guest, I want to address the fact that I realize that it's been a few weeks between episodes. Uh, you know, besides it being a crazy busy time of year with Christmas and everything, I've also been really busy. Uh, I've been shooting another short. I got to work with the incredible Jara Murphy, which is really fun. Uh I seem to be getting typecast as drunk guy these days, which is kind of ironic, but it's fine. I mean, I had a lot of practice with that, I suppose, right? Anyway, what else? Uh I had an audition for a theatre show, which I got, which is really exciting. Um, so you know, more on that fairly immediately, I suppose. I had a very involved bunch of self-tapes to get in a couple of weeks ago, which were really fun to do, but you know, they were a lot and uh took up quite a bit of time. Um if you know, you know. But yeah, life is busy and fun and exciting and unpredictable, and I love it. But yeah, a little behind on the podcast, which I'm sure you all understand. Also, I'm heading to the Philippines next week, so I'm gonna publish one more episode after this one sometime next week, and then I'm gonna have a little bit of time off to enjoy some nice beaches. But make sure you catch next week's episode because I have an absolute legend of Australian TV and film coming on. So make sure you are following and subscribing wherever you're listening or watching so that you don't miss that episode. But let's not get ahead of ourselves because speaking of legends of Australian TV and film, Luca Sardellas is on the show today. And oh my god, Luca. Where do I even begin with Luca? Luca is one of those actors that I just kept bumping into and seeing everywhere. And like I knew her and we'd always have a chat if we saw each other at like film festivals or screenings and stuff like that. But this whole time I was completely ignorant to the fact that she is like a goddamn icon of this industry. Like, seriously, listen, listen to this. Uh her first ever acting gig was one of the main recurring roles in the children's television series Sam Fox Extreme Adventures when she was just 11. And from there she landed consistent TV roles all throughout high school in shows like Barracuda, Nowhere Boys, and Deadlock. And like, not just like background bit parts, like proper supporting recurring roles. And then when she was 18, she played one of the lead roles in SBS's The Hunting. You also might recognise her from her appearances in A Perfect Pairing on Netflix, The Tourist on HBM Max, and most recently in her recurring role on Seven's RFDS. Yeah, there's heaps more. Okay, hold on. This is a long one. On top of her incredible TV career, she's also built a really strong filmography. Her work is screened at festivals such as Um South by Southwest and Flickrfest in projects such as I'm the Most Racist Person I Know, Spite and Cordelia Daughter of the Sea, which is the first project I saw her in. Amazing by the way. And she's also got a bunch of features on the way, including River, Love Tea and Epiphany, Diabolic, uh, Ruby Ruby, and Haven't You Heard Everyone Hates Me? So, keep your goddamn eyes peeled for all of that. Yeah. And if that's not enough, she's also somehow found time to write and direct and create her own projects, including her own self-device theatre piece, The Fish Rots from the Head, which she is soon adapting for the screen. She also received a Kyklu grant in 2023 to write and direct her first short film, Nothing Gold Can Stay. And she's just arrived back from the UK where she trained in classical Shakespearean and Jacobian theatre at Lambda in London. Yeah. And she's only 24. So yeah, what have you done? I mean, I had three words in a movie over a year ago and I won't shut up about it, but yeah. Luca is someone that I've only really known for a short amount of time. Um, but I really look up to her and so should you. And I mean if a resume like that doesn't light a creative fire beneath you, I don't know what will. Um it's a really chill chat. It's it's a little philosophical at times. It's just two actors, you know, spitballing about the weird and existential thoughts that come with pursuing a career in film and TV and theatre. Man, this is a really long intro. I'm really sorry about that. Uh, we're gonna get to the chat. But just for some context, the book that we're talking about when we when you first join us is The Artist Way by Julia Cameron, which is a really fantastic book so far. I I still haven't finished it. But Luca, it's the 1st of January, so I hope you've done your morning pages. Also, we recorded this back when her latest film, Diabolic, was still in cinemas. Diabolic is no longer in cinemas, but it might be on streaming soon. Keep an eye out for that one. It's really good. Directed by Daniel Phillips. Okay, shut up, Chris. That's enough. Please enjoy my very candid chat with the remarkable Lucas Sardellas. So usually what happens is like I don't use like the first 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 6:16

Great. That's like warm-up.

SPEAKER_04: 6:18

Yeah, and it's usually for me because I'm just awkward for the for a while.

SPEAKER_01: 6:21

Yeah, it's like when you're journaling and they say, like, have you ever done like the morning pages?

SPEAKER_04: 6:25

Uh no, uh, but I bought the book.

SPEAKER_01: 6:27

So, yeah, you've really thought about it.

SPEAKER_04: 6:29

It's like getting a gym membership, but that's the first step, and then you wait a year, then you start going.

SPEAKER_01: 6:33

But at least you don't have to pay like a reoccurring payment like the gym, you know? You just buy the book once and it's there for life. But anyway, they say Is it up there?

SPEAKER_04: 6:40

No. Yes, the artist's. There it is, yeah. It's in the collection of all the other books I haven't read.

SPEAKER_01: 6:45

But I'm sure like that would make you such a good actor, that collection.

SPEAKER_04: 6:48

Yeah, if I actually got to reading them, I might actually get some work.

SPEAKER_01: 6:52

Unstoppable. Yeah, look out. But yeah, I was saying, like, they say you do the same with the morning pages, like three pages. So you were like, unlock your like thoughts and then you get to what's really behind the mask.

SPEAKER_04: 7:01

Oh. So how many pages do you meant to do?

SPEAKER_01: 7:03

Just three pages every morning you're supposed to do first thing.

SPEAKER_04: 7:05

Oh, and then for the rest of the day, you're like creative mode.

SPEAKER_01: 7:08

It just unlocks, it unlocks that part of you that's that's blocking yourself before you even start. And you start and you know you've done something for the day. Yeah. You've created something, and now you move on, you go forth, and you spread your little creative wings. I love that. I don't know, I didn't get past the first chapter. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:24

Maybe you didn't need to. You just needed to do your morning pages and then yeah, that's all you needed.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

Maybe it is. Maybe that's what I maybe that's a goal for next year. Maybe I actually should do it. Should we do the artist's way and hold each other accountable?

SPEAKER_04: 7:35

Let's do it. All right, it's a deal. Done. Because I'm terrible, I'm terrible at books. I'm bad at books. But do you read?

SPEAKER_01: 7:44

I I yes.

SPEAKER_04: 7:45

Yeah. Like fiction or non-fiction?

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

Fiction. Hate nonfiction. Hate reading nonfiction. Really? If someone tries to shove a self-help book in my face and I know that's not all non-fiction is, I don't want to read it. I don't care.

SPEAKER_04: 7:57

The artist way is kind of the it's it's pretty self-helpy. But it's good. It's a good one. It's not like crypto shit.

SPEAKER_01: 8:04

Although maybe I would be so ahead of myself. Maybe if I read the Barefoot Investor, I'd get so ahead of myself. Like I said, you know what?

SPEAKER_04: 8:12

I have to admit.

SPEAKER_01: 8:13

You read it?

SPEAKER_04: 8:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:14

That's like a good decision.

SPEAKER_04: 8:16

It it was a it That's a good decision. I hate to say kind of changed my life.

SPEAKER_01: 8:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 8:21

I got out of debt pretty pretty quickly, and I was like, oh, okay, now I I I'm not rich, but I'm like So I need to read the Barefoot Investor. So I'm at zero.

SPEAKER_01: 8:29

We're at Net Zero.

SPEAKER_04: 8:30

I'm at Net Zuri, which is better than that's way better than being in debt. Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_01: 8:34

Every every dollar from here is a plus.

SPEAKER_04: 8:36

I love it when this thing turns into a finance podcast. I love it when that happens. It must be in me, right?

SPEAKER_01: 8:41

I mean, I've been waiting for my chance to be a finance bro my whole life.

SPEAKER_04: 8:44

Oh yeah? Well, now's a chance.

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

Now's my chance. Um what is it? Fortune 500 top companies. Yeah, go.

SPEAKER_04: 8:51

Name all 500, go.

SPEAKER_01: 8:53

Are you even an investment bro? Crypto bro if you can't name the top.

SPEAKER_04: 8:57

Uh I got called a film bro the other day.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

Ouch.

SPEAKER_04: 8:59

And I was like, I don't know what that is. I'm 34. I don't know what these things are.

SPEAKER_01: 9:02

That's an insult.

SPEAKER_04: 9:03

Yeah, I could sense that they were trying to insult me, but you can't burst this bubble, I'm afraid. You show them. I did. I was like, whatever. See, here's And then I was like, have you heard of Tarantino?

SPEAKER_01: 9:15

Thus proving their point. By the way, I'm looking at a pulp fiction poster on his wall right here, which is might I add, and the Jaws poster to go with it. That's the most fucking film bro thing I've seen in my entire life, right there.

SPEAKER_04: 9:26

Yeah, cool. Do you know can I can I defend myself?

SPEAKER_01: 9:29

You can, you may.

SPEAKER_04: 9:30

I just had nothing on the wall, and I went, I was in JB, and I just picked the most obvious fucking film posters, and I just that's there you go. And and then I learned about film bros, and I'm like, oh, yeah, well, I guess I am what I am.

SPEAKER_01: 9:43

I'm jealous you only just learned about film bros.

SPEAKER_04: 9:46

Really? What is it? I don't even know what it means.

SPEAKER_01: 9:48

To be fair, I actually I think a lot of the film industry, like I I I I don't come across a film bros every day, I think, which I think is a feat. I think film bros.

SPEAKER_04: 9:59

I'm so glad. I I this is this is why I do this. I need to learn. I need to know. This is I need to know who not to be.

SPEAKER_01: 10:05

You don't need a nonfiction book. You just need to get keep getting podcasters in.

SPEAKER_04: 10:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 10:09

I think that the most film bros of film bros aren't actually in the film industry. So they are the people who are like, quid, you know, like Lynch, like Nolan. Oh my god, I fucking love that film Nolan made. And, you know, they just kind of are really into like the masculine directors and the the very they're very um the auteurs, you know, like they're very, like they're they're there to absolutely support those auteurs and like how amazing they are. So I I think that most of them aren't actually in the industry. But I think I still definitely have worked with directors that I would classify as film bros. Right. And I have actor friends that are film bros too. I wouldn't tell that to their face, but uh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04: 10:51

I don't I don't go uh whatever. I just bought the poster speech. Could have been anything.

SPEAKER_01: 10:57

I don't think you're a film bro. Maybe you are. Are you like really like good with like if you're watching a movie, are you like, oh that's so-and-so from this movie. This is a test now. This is your am I a film bro test?

SPEAKER_04: 11:11

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 11:12

Do you often find yourself on a scale of one to five? How often do you find yourself looking up IMDB after you watch something to see the casting crew?

SPEAKER_04: 11:21

Nah, I don't do that. I Okay. It's usually uh usually I'm watching a YouTube video explaining the film.

SPEAKER_01: 11:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 11:27

I'm like, what happened then?

SPEAKER_01: 11:29

Do you ever make I did that with hereditary?

SPEAKER_04: 11:31

I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01: 11:32

I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_04: 11:33

That's allowed. Alright.

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

I think that's considered normal. Do you ever find yourself making the content explaining the film?

SPEAKER_04: 11:40

Oh hell no.

SPEAKER_01: 11:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 11:42

Well no, no, I I usually don't get films. I'm like, that was fun. Did everyone have a good time? I had a good time. The popcorn was good.

SPEAKER_01: 11:51

I think the fact that you admitted that.

SPEAKER_04: 11:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

And I considering all those factors, I think that you're not classified as a film bro.

SPEAKER_04: 11:58

You heard it here first, folks.

SPEAKER_01: 12:00

Yeah, which is a good thing.

SPEAKER_04: 12:02

Anyway, David Lynch, have you seen The Razorhead? Oh God. Oh, do you know what? Do you know what I I s I finally started watching, and I feel so this it's too hard to keep up with everything. But I started watching RFDS. And you and you and Luke Ferlin.

SPEAKER_01: 12:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 12:18

So good.

SPEAKER_01: 12:19

We and that. We look like siblings, don't we?

SPEAKER_04: 12:21

You do?

SPEAKER_01: 12:21

Yeah, we really do in that. I never realized it until I saw it on screen.

SPEAKER_04: 12:24

Yeah, it was really good. Thanks. How was that?

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Um, that was a fun time. It was a great shoot. It was what I like to call a s a social shoot where like we were just having so much fun all of the time. It was more about that than the work sometimes. Like it was just such a fun job. Like everyone on it was such a family, everyone was so kind and welcoming. It was their third season, so yeah, they knew each other quite well. Um, but they welcomed he welcomed me in, which was nice.

SPEAKER_04: 12:51

You had a massive part, man.

SPEAKER_01: 12:52

It was good, it was reoccurring, which is nice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 12:54

Um, how many episodes are you in?

SPEAKER_01: 12:56

I don't know. I am either it's between four and six. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 13:01

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:02

But getting to work with Eleanor Carapitas was amazing as well. I love working with her. We have a bit of a joke that, like, you need a mother-daughter joy, just put us in. Yeah. We've been cast together twice already.

SPEAKER_04: 13:13

I want to get her on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 13:14

Oh my god, do it. She's a busy woman, but I'll hook you up.

SPEAKER_04: 13:18

How did you get into the into the acting world?

SPEAKER_01: 13:20

Um, I was very, very lucky. I was an 11-year-old at school. He's some casting were going around to lots of different schools and interviewing kids for a TV show coming up called Sam Fox Extreme Adventures.

SPEAKER_03: 13:34

Yeah. Yeah, do you remember that?

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

Um, and they came to my school and I went to the interview.

SPEAKER_02: 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:40

Met them, was being bubbly, giggly, chatty. They obviously thought that was really cute. And then they um then they brought me in for an audition, and then I got the callback, then I got kind of a chemistry, then I got the job. What was the role? I was in. It was for April Fox, so Sam Fox's sassy younger sister. And that was great. It was like six months of shooting. So I was just like popping in on my days off, like between school kind of stuff. Yeah. And it was just, again, so fun. Like you know, kids TV is so fun because it has to be. It's not like you're changing the world, but you are like entertaining, you know? Yeah, we I just had the best time. Everyone really looked after me.

SPEAKER_03: 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:23

When they bring out like the lunch buffet, and then they bring out the slab of like chocolate pudding for dessert, and you're like, this is the best thing ever. So I just fell in love with it because it was just so great and so fun and so enjoyable to be around. Um, and then I wanted to do more.

SPEAKER_04: 14:40

Did you find it like difficult? Were you nervous, or did you just feel like you just had this sort of natural ability in front of the camera? Where did that come from?

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

I don't know. I mean, I did like I did a lot of dance when I was growing up. I would always do the school plays and go for the leads and whatever. And I also think there's just an absolute freedom when you're a kid where you just don't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_03: 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:03

And I think I was just this kid that didn't give a fuck. I wasn't socially anxious. Um, acting in front of a camera didn't feel scary because it's not like it's a massive audience. I don't know, it still felt quite intimate. We were shooting a lot in a studio, so we had this like house set in the Adelaide Film Studios. Yeah. So I would step on set and then there's like two people around me and a camera. So it felt very intimate. And I had built such good rapport with um the other actors as well, like Remy Brand, who was playing my older brother. Like we had such a banterous relationship, and I then had these two like younger brother characters as well. Yeah. And I had a real like big sisterly relationship over them. So it kind of felt like this family outside of my family. Yeah. So it was really, I I don't I don't remember being nervous. I'm sure I was, but I don't remember being nervous. I just remember having a great time.

SPEAKER_04: 15:53

You're just playing.

SPEAKER_01: 15:54

Yeah, I'm more nervous now stepping onto a set than I was back then.

SPEAKER_04: 15:57

Yeah. For sure. I know. The world kind of imposes those feelings on TA as you get older. That's so cool, man. What happened next? Did you like move on to just another job? Or did that sort of set you up for anything, any future work, or did you have a break from it?

SPEAKER_01: 16:11

So that was when I was in year seven that I was filming that.

SPEAKER_04: 16:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:14

Then year year eight, I don't think I had a job. But I very important stuff happened in that time. Yeah. Where I met my agent who I am still with now, Helen Pandos. Yeah. I had a mentor at the time, Brian Gilbertson, who's amazing. He's the he's an amazing opera singer and performer in his own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 16:36

And his son is uh Harrison Gilbertson. Harrison, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Harrison had left, and I think he was like willing to like take on another child in the industry. And he uh I see, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So my older sister's godparents introduced me to him. Right. And then he introduced me to Helen. And Helen was like, oh, don't really take on kids, but I here's this audition for Barracuda if you want to help her with it.

SPEAKER_03: 17:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:01

So again, fluke, my second audition. I do it with him.

SPEAKER_03: 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:06

Wait, did I do it with him? No, I didn't. I think I flew to back in the days before self-tapes, I flew to Melbourne to do the audition.

SPEAKER_03: 17:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 17:14

And got that role, which was insane.

SPEAKER_03: 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:17

And that was incredible as well. Yeah. Um, that was with Robert Connolly as the director and Elias Anton as the lead, Jeremy Lindsay Taylor, Victoria Harabilabu, like amazing cast.

SPEAKER_04: 17:30

Oh my god. That was your second job.

SPEAKER_01: 17:32

That was my second job. Yeah. I played his younger sister in that as well. So I had a typecast of sassy younger sister.

SPEAKER_03: 17:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:40

Which really worked for me. Um, yeah. And then from then on, I kind of had I got Nowhere Boys after that because I think Rob Connolly was talking to the producer of Nowhere Boys, being like, Oh, you need kids. Logo's pretty great. Like you should uh blah blah blah blah. And then I auditioned for that a few times, got that role, and that went for two seasons. So then every year of high school, I kind of had a different job that I would fly away to Melbourne to do, which was great and incredible.

SPEAKER_04: 18:06

Amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 18:06

I know, and then school finished, and that didn't happen anymore when I wanted it to happen.

SPEAKER_04: 18:11

Yeah. So it's that kind of thing of like the industry takes you up on a wave and like promises you everything, and then it's like Well, I guess you kind of grew into like a different age group and maybe you weren't the uh the sassy younger sister anymore, or older sister or whatever. Definitely so what choices did you have at your sort of disposal then?

SPEAKER_01: 18:28

Um, so I went to university straight out of school. So I knew I wanted to do that because I wasn't by that point in year 12, I think I wasn't convinced that it was what I wanted to do forever. I think I loved it, but I felt like I I felt like I was young and I didn't know much about the world and I wanted to learn more. Yeah. And I'd gotten a good ATA, so I was like, why am I gonna I don't know, I just wanted to do something with it, you know? So I went to university, which you don't need to do. You can. I loved I loved doing university. I'm glad I did. I'm glad that knowledge is in my brain. Yeah. But if I'm speaking honestly about my past, I think it was a bit of an ego thing for me that I wanted to know that I could and that I had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 19:06

And you did psychology?

SPEAKER_01: 19:07

I did a double degree in psychological science and criminology.

SPEAKER_04: 19:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 19:11

And loved what I was learning, hated that it was taking me away from pursuing film more seriously.

SPEAKER_02: 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:16

And then obviously COVID hit mid-degree. Um so I stripped back to part-time because it also like it ruined like the uni experience, you know. Like I was learning on a computer. Yeah. I was essentially watching like what is essentially YouTube videos to learn about the human psyche.

SPEAKER_03: 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:35

And to learn about the justice system. I'm like, this is this feels a bit messed up. Yeah. And then I still continued to try and work where I could and uh balance the two of them. Um and then I finally finished last year.

SPEAKER_04: 19:50

Oh, congratulations.

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04: 19:52

So do you think you'll still is that still on the cards?

SPEAKER_01: 19:55

I think um, especially when we're talking about like the survival job or The normy job or the mug job or whatever the whatever you want to call it. There's lots of names. I think I'm always chasing what feels fulfilling because I think I've learned about myself and I think I've set up for myself by by being an actor who was like leaving school for at least a term every year in my high school. I've kind of like I think I've grown into this pattern of I'm not very good at staying in one place for very long.

SPEAKER_04: 20:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 20:25

Um and so I know that I need to I think that might be an actor thing. Yeah, I think it's very much an actor thing.

SPEAKER_04: 20:30

I can never like I think the longest I've been in a job is three years. That's a long time for me.

SPEAKER_01: 20:35

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_04: 20:36

But now now I run my own business.

SPEAKER_01: 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:38

And that's it's like I could I could step away from it for a little while if I needed to and be like But how many years have you been an actor? Well, since I was like a teenager, but so that's your longest job. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But that but acting's acting works for for me and for I guess for people that want to move around a lot because every job is so different. Yeah. I but I've worked in offices every you know and and gone to the office every single day, and I'm just like, oh my god, I can't do I how long do I have to do this? And I'll last like six months.

SPEAKER_01: 21:07

I know.

SPEAKER_04: 21:08

Yeah, I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01: 21:09

I know the feeling. I was speaking about this um recently with a friend, like where we look for unpredictability and where we look for stability.

SPEAKER_04: 21:17

I think Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 21:18

Like there's like a real like I need a balance of the two in my life. I think because my job is so unpredictable, like I never know where I'm gonna be next month, if I'm gonna have a job next month, I I chase that, I love it, I want to travel, I want to get out, I want to experience, I want to whatever. Yeah. So then when I come home at the end of the day, it's like I want my relationships to be stable. I want my friendships to be stable. I want to know that I have a really secure um family and friendship group around me. I want to know that um like I don't really thrill seek in my hobbies. Like I'm a bit of like a grandma, like I like to read and draw and paint, and I learned how to crochet the other day. Like I'm so like so painfully normal in that way. But it's like I need that because the rest of my life is mayhem. Yeah. But I think a lot of my friends who have those nine to fives, it's like okay, they have the monotonous nine to five where they kind of switch off, become this other person as they're like going through their routine every day. And so then they get to like after work, they get to the weekend and they want to just they want to be unpredictable, they want to feel exciting, they want to do stuff that you know, they want to seek sensation.

SPEAKER_04: 22:29

Yeah, that's such an interesting concept.

SPEAKER_01: 22:31

They yeah, of course the generalization, but totally.

SPEAKER_04: 22:34

But I think yeah, there's a lot of truth in that. I mean, yeah, when I was when I was working that that sort of lifestyle, you know, because I didn't act for a long time, really. I was still with an actor, but I wasn't I wasn't really going for jobs. But yeah, really like even I worked in heaps of different offices, office jobs and warehouses and all these sort of things. But yeah, on the weekends it was like, oh my god, finally I just get to like lose myself or something.

SPEAKER_01: 22:59

What would you do? Like in those times when losing yeah, like how would you we shouldn't get into it?

SPEAKER_04: 23:05

We don't need to Well, but I I mean I mean I did it, I I would party really hard. Yeah, you know, but I think I talked about this on on here. So anyone that listens knows that all about my alcohol history history and stuff. Yeah. But when I quit drinking, well, it was the same year that I rediscovered acting and I and I haven't drunk for five years, but I've been acting like hardcore for five years.

SPEAKER_02: 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 23:29

Which is, you know, there's a cor may perhaps a correlation there, but it also the fact that maybe I've found this sort of satisfying instability and excitement in my acting work that is sort of filling that uh whatever it is for me, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 23:43

Yeah. That's my hypothesis at least. I like it.

SPEAKER_04: 23:46

It makes sense, you know. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_01: 23:48

Because I think it is an addiction.

SPEAKER_04: 23:49

Like I think so.

SPEAKER_01: 23:50

I think, you know, when you get a job and you get that high and you're like, whoa, like this is crazy, and you feel all the like the love and adoration and that you know, you've been wanted and you've been chosen, and then you get to like play pretendees and you're looked after really well. And you know, it's so nice. Yeah, and then you go into like this slump of like, am I ever gonna work again? And it's like you're auditioning and you're auditioning and you're auditioning, and the next one might be the one, and you know it's gonna feel great when I get it, and you're like waiting for this lottery ticket to come. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 24:18

Yeah, you're waiting to win the lottery, and it's yeah, it is exciting because it kind of gives you yeah, it's something to chase a little bit. And and also, but not just chase like blindly, it's also work really hard at to increase your chances as well. Yeah. So like in between the jobs, you're still, you know, actively you know, learning and and doing workshops and flying to London. And did you go to London? Yeah, you know, and doing doing these like out of out-of-the-box um sort of courses to just really like challenge yourself, you know. Yeah. Um, and you can justify all that those exciting experiences because you're like, yeah, because it's all working towards this. This great goal. It's this goal, and these every now and then I get an opportunity to do something really cool and exciting and be treated like the most important person on the life.

SPEAKER_01: 25:07

You know what I've been struggling with though? What is the goal?

SPEAKER_04: 25:10

Like, like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 25:14

That's been my challenge.

SPEAKER_04: 25:15

I think I woke up with that that this morning. I'm like, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_01: 25:19

Every day though, right? We're all feeling it. It's like, what is the goal? And again, I got reminded recently, it's like, you know, I'm so directed on this mission. Yeah, but there's so much I've achieved already. So where does the mission end? Like, there's always gonna be another glass ceiling to break through and be proud of yourself for breaking through, but then there'll be one right above it. And you know, so when, so when are you done? When are you successful? When are you happy? When are you in the spot? You know?

SPEAKER_04: 25:44

I don't know, but maybe maybe you just want to, maybe you don't want to reach it. Maybe you just want to because I don't think there is a ceiling. I think you just I was gonna I was thinking about this this morning. It's funny that you sort of brought that up. I was thinking about what success is, because I mean, do you look back on your life and and your experiences and say, um, wow, look how far I've come in 10 years. I mean, yeah, but yeah, you were like working nearly full time at as a teenager.

SPEAKER_01: 26:12

I was white. I know. I was I I look back and I got I peaked in year 11. Like I don't know about you.

SPEAKER_04: 26:17

Are you chasing that?

SPEAKER_01: 26:18

Maybe I am.

SPEAKER_04: 26:19

You're like, I've already succeeded, what do I do now?

SPEAKER_01: 26:21

Yeah, I know, right? It's like where where how do you keep how do you keep growing in an industry that's not a meritocracy? Yes, you know?

SPEAKER_03: 26:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 26:29

Yeah, and I think, you know, like I I do think I'm way better at my craft now than I was then. Um and I do know, you know, and I I have been trying to like diversify my skill set as like as I see you have, like you're here doing the podcasting, you know. And like a lot of my friends are doing as well. It's like, okay, let's try producing, let's try writing, let's try like any other opportunity to gain agency over the material material you're a part in creating.

SPEAKER_03: 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:53

Because I think maybe that's where my goals have changed. I think whereas I was when I was younger and I was just happy to be on a show. Now I think I'm a I'm a bit older and I'm like, okay, but why do I want to be on a show? Like, what do I want to make? What do I want to say?

SPEAKER_04: 27:07

Do you know why?

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

Um, I think it is different on a case-by-case basis. I think different projects excite me for different reasons. Yeah. But I also think there's a lot that doesn't excite me that I do. And I heard Lauren, I mean, Lauren Coop talking about this when she said when she was talking about the metaphor of teapots.

SPEAKER_04: 27:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 27:25

And I can't stop thinking about that. I think that's so true.

SPEAKER_04: 27:28

It's like I think it struck a chord with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01: 27:31

Yeah, exactly. It was it was great. And I um I think my response to that has been, okay, yes, so I can keep accepting things and I'll keep learning things in different ways and building. But also, what can I be making that is more aligned with what I want to do? And how can I gain that control back so that I can put myself in the positions that I actually want to be in?

SPEAKER_03: 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

So I think I'm trying to figure that out right now. I think that's my current goal. Like, how do I maybe that's learning producing? Maybe that's writing more and then making connections with more people that can then make that thing happen. Or maybe, you know, there's lots of different ways to go about it. But um yeah, I think I'm just trying to think about sustainability and longevity. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 28:11

And how to do what as as in like external to your acting career or as as in in as an actor?

SPEAKER_01: 28:18

I mean both. As an actor, doing what I want, being an actor for as much as for as much time as possible in a year versus anything else. But then also actually, I have been thinking about longevity in like a health way a lot recently. Oh yeah? Have you been thinking about this? Have you heard about creatine?

SPEAKER_04: 28:34

I I I mean, I take it, but I don't think I know why.

SPEAKER_01: 28:39

I was listening to some other podcasts about like um aging and wived and the things we should know earlier. Anyway, longevity, very important.

SPEAKER_04: 28:47

Wouldn't I tell me about creatine real quick? I'm so curious now. Um This can be a finance podcast and a health podcast, a Jim Bro podcast too.

SPEAKER_01: 28:57

That's that's that's that's the mission.

SPEAKER_04: 28:59

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01: 29:00

That's what we're working towards. Um, but yeah, we didn't get to like your mission. Like, why why do you think you do it? Why do you want to do it?

SPEAKER_04: 29:06

Um I don't know. I don't know really. I've there's probably some kind of unhealthy answers to that in terms of like being liked or feeling validated or um I don't know, just being part of something, you know. I'm that maybe that's healthy. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe we do need those things, we do need to feel those things as well. But there's probably some of that. But also I found something that really gave me a lot of satisfaction and and made me feel creative and made me feel um well like I was good at something, you know. But I do feel like I'm chasing something and I'm not quite there. I'm further ahead than I was five years ago, uh, which is good. But do I still have I do I feel like I've reached whatever I'm trying to reach? Like, not really. And maybe I I don't know, maybe we don't feel we maybe we never feel that, or maybe we do. Maybe it's like the big Hollywood film, you're like, now you've done it, buddy. And then you're like, oh, well now what?

SPEAKER_01: 30:04

Yeah, but then you'll always find something to feel dissatisfied about, I think.

SPEAKER_04: 30:06

Yeah, exactly. I don't really know how to answer that because I I don't think I know what I'm chasing. I th I know what I enjoy about it though. And when the opportunities come up, it's exciting. And but maybe I maybe I'm also thinking about like external to my acting career, I'm also thinking about just um stability in my life as a whole. Yeah. And maybe there's this this sort of idea in my head that like one day I'll be able to sustain my life doing this and I won't have to clean houses anymore. Yeah. And then maybe I'll feel like, ah, I'm really working as an actor now, and not like being really famous and rich, just like I've got an income and I'm, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 30:47

I was speaking to an actor who like works pretty frequently in the film industry the other day. And like he was, you know, everyone was talking about like what jobs they do, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, Yeah, no, this is it. This is all I do, acting. He's like, I live way below the poverty line, but like I'm just acting, and that's a choice I've made. Like, I just live cheaply and I just do that.

SPEAKER_04: 31:05

Yeah, I think that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01: 31:07

I think it's it is That's all right to me. It is like such a lifestyle choice. I think this industry, it's like you never know where you'll be in 10 years. Um, it's so hard. I'm trying to figure out what the the clue is. Like, is it like like how do we like the clue is to guaranteeing your success? Like, is it like, do you need a social media presence? But then none of the actors I'm obsessed with have big social media presences, so it probably isn't that. Like, I'm trying to figure out what that that clue is. But I think, yeah, ultimately you have to be in it for the lifestyle. Hey, like it's such a like you get to be surrounded by arty people all the time, you get to be watching films all the time, engaging in good conversations all the time. Like it's a it's a much more pro-social career than I think I watch a lot of my other friends outside of the industry have.

SPEAKER_03: 31:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:50

So for that alone, I'm grateful. And I think that the quality of life is like quite high, even though there's a lot of like emotional tumult.

SPEAKER_04: 31:57

I think that's what makes it worth it though.

SPEAKER_01: 31:59

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04: 32:00

You know, and we I've found something that's actually just really I don't I don't feel like I'm trying to fill a void with anything now because I've found something I love, which is really I think it's really uh rare for people to find, you know. And so I'm I'm satisfied. I just I just worry about like how long I can do it and you know, sustaining my my life when I'm older. Yeah. So you know.

SPEAKER_01: 32:24

Which is why we read the barefoot investor.

SPEAKER_04: 32:26

That's right. Put all your money in superannuation.

SPEAKER_01: 32:29

Exactly. Fuck, I do need to read that book, hey it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_04: 32:34

You wouldn't want to follow every step, but it's a pretty good guide.

SPEAKER_01: 32:36

Okay, like I look being financially literate, I think is important, right? And I I think I lack a bit of that literacy right now. I need to get across it. I I don't like when I'm not across things. I need to be across it.

SPEAKER_04: 32:46

Yeah. Well, I I read it when I was 27.

SPEAKER_01: 32:48

Okay, so I'll still be like ahead of you, which is great. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 32:51

You'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

No, I'm joking, I'm joking.

SPEAKER_04: 32:54

Yeah. So when you were like when you were younger, who who was kind of like overseeing this career that you were sort of developing as a young actor?

SPEAKER_02: 33:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 33:03

Were your parents like really involved in this, or did you have an agent then? Or or did you have like who was teaching you how to act?

SPEAKER_01: 33:10

Um, so I had an agent from 1314, but she was Melbourne Sydney based, and I was here in Adelaide. Um my mum was mummager, she was very supportive. She wasn't like evil mummager, like you need to do this, you need to do 32 pirouettes, my child. Um, but she just like handled uh communications. Yeah. But um actually Louise Heeson was incredibly pivotal in my career. Big ups to Louise Heeson. And Angela, babes, love you. Um and also Brian Gilbertson. So I have done, I cannot even tell you how many auditions I have done with Lou Heeson. Like she kind of took me and Yazid Dea under her wing. We were both young kids. Yeah. Um, and she kind of took us both really under her wing. And whenever we had auditions, she'd bring us in. One of us would read for the other, and she'd record it and give us feedback.

SPEAKER_04: 34:03

Um, and honestly, yeah, I mean she I credit her, and she I know she hates this, and she she gets embarrassed when I compliment her. I know. Yeah. But I credit her to like the moment I was like, Oh yeah. It was such a pivotal moment doing that workshop with her. Well, it was a it was with Teresa Palmer, and she was there as well. And then I did a workshop just with her, and I was like, everything changed from then. And I know you're embarrassed, and I'm sorry, but we love you.

SPEAKER_01: 34:29

And what are you what did you learn from her? What was that turning point?

SPEAKER_04: 34:32

Well, I got to a point I got a I think I got a bit cocky, and I kind of plateaued in my career. Yeah. Well, not my career, my career wasn't, I didn't have one really. But I in my skill level, I I I f I totally plateaued, and that's because I was getting a bit like big for my boots. And I was trying to do this scene for this workshop, and I was just doing it this exactly the same every single time, and I totally planned exactly what I was gonna do every single time. Yeah, because I didn't really I'm not trained, I didn't really know what's right or wrong. I just thought this is good acting and this is bad acting. Yeah, and she was like, Chris, I know you I know you can do better, and like she basically just like whipped me into shape in a really positive way, not like in a mean way or anything.

SPEAKER_01: 35:13

Oh, she's not like she's not capable of being mean, but just in a very like understanding way.

SPEAKER_04: 35:18

She knows exactly how to how to communicate with each individual student or mentee. Do you know what I mean? Like she knows exactly what each person needs.

SPEAKER_01: 35:27

She's great like that. She knows exactly what she needs to tell you, and her emotions are right at the surface. So, like if you're doing a scene where you're like having to cry, she's there crying, telling you about why you have to cry. It's insane.

SPEAKER_04: 35:37

I'm like, it's uh she is so empathetic. I love her so much.

SPEAKER_01: 35:40

That's crazy. She even like knew like when I would come in and Yazid and I would both have auditions to do. Yeah, she'd be like, Oh, okay, who wants to go first? I'd be like, I don't know, don't care. She'd be like, All right, you're going first because you do better when you go first, and you're going second because you need more time.

SPEAKER_04: 35:52

Like, she literally knows everything, every detail about every actor in Australia, Australia. I swear to God.

SPEAKER_01: 35:58

I miss her. I haven't seen her in so long. I miss her.

SPEAKER_04: 36:00

I don't know how she finds the emotional capacity for all these different people, but she just she cares so deeply for every one of the actors in this industry.

SPEAKER_01: 36:08

Like it's gotta be exhausting. It's gotta be.

SPEAKER_04: 36:11

But I think she uh she just has to do it. It's just so in inherently in her, you know, to to be so caring and yeah. So has she been a you would consider her a big mentor for you?

SPEAKER_01: 36:22

Absolutely, yeah. She was pivotal, especially in those early years. Like she changed the way I approach the audition space. She taught me to take control of an audition room.

SPEAKER_03: 36:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:31

Interesting. Um she taught me how to be a good reader, I would say. I because I just had so much experience working with her doing that. Yeah. Um when to push, when not to, how hard to push. Yeah. So I love taping with my friends because I love seeing like small adjustments and how they take it and trying to figure out how to get them to take it, you know?

SPEAKER_03: 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:51

She was just like unrelentingly positive and supportive about my career. Like she just believed that I I could. And that is that's the difference, I think, between someone who continues acting and someone who stops. It's like you need to have that internal confidence that you are special, that you can do this, that you know, you have that ability. Because I think anyone could act. I think it's a mentality though. I think you have to have you have to believe certain things about yourself or what you can do to let yourself do it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:17

Yeah, we because it is an it's an internal battle sometimes.

SPEAKER_01: 37:21

It's an ego death.

SPEAKER_04: 37:22

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. It's really scary. It's as I was saying, like today, today's one of those days. And I think I was I'm editing another podcast at the moment, and I was in this podcast, I was having another one of those days where I'm like, what am I doing? You know. But then you have a conversation with someone that just tells you that one little thing that she that makes you feel like you can you can do this. You you know, people are people want you to do this, you know, people care. And I know what you mean. I think Lou's, yeah, one of those people, and and Angela as well. Angela's so amazing. Like every time I see her.

SPEAKER_01: 37:52

Yeah, I love that woman. She's wild. I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:55

Yeah, so much support. And I think I think that's what I love about this this city as well, is the community is so supportive and it's just a big family, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 38:05

It is, it doesn't feel competitive like I feel like other cities feel. Like Adelaide feels very family. It feels like we all support each other's wins because we know how hard it is to get them. Yeah, and then there's like, especially when it's like us versus like not us versus the East Coast, but a little bit sometimes.

SPEAKER_04: 38:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:22

Um, so it's such a successful.

SPEAKER_04: 38:24

We got there's some solidarity here. There's the underdog.

SPEAKER_01: 38:27

There's such a solidarity. Um, I really like that about our industry.

SPEAKER_03: 38:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:32

Um, I would also say, in terms in terms of mentors, though, I think Brian Gilbertson, yeah, was a major mentor, especially in those early years as well, because he taught me how to break down the audition script into beats, units, energy shift. Yeah. So he taught me to really look at okay, when does when does the scene shift? Where does it like how does it start versus how does it finish? Yeah. Um, just kind of those essential things that I've used a lot in Elena Carapitas is an amazing mentor. Yeah, yeah. She's phenomenal. She sat down and she's helped me do um, she was just helping me break down a short film I've been writing. Like she spent two sessions with me breaking that down and helping me improve it. That's insane. But yeah, I think as actors, we're all functioning individually, trying to work towards our own individual goals. Yeah. We're freelance, we're just doing our thing. And I don't know how as an actor you learn to have the skills. I don't know how you learn to have that career progression, especially because career progression isn't linear when it comes to acting. Yeah. I just wish that there was more support for young actors by older, more established actors on guiding them through the industry.

SPEAKER_04: 39:34

Yeah, I think that's such a great point. We are out here on our own, you know, in the wilderness, sort of blindly bumping into things and seeing if things work. But I think it is a struggle for a lot of actors that especially that come into it later in life.

SPEAKER_03: 39:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 39:49

There is just no rule book, there's no guidance, there's no like step-by-step um sort of system to get into this industry. It's absolutely or should I go to drama school? Or that's really. Expensive and takes a long time. Yeah. I might not get in. I didn't get in. Uh, what else can I do? I'm or I'm not I want to do it and I think I've got something in me that that you know I think I can do it, but I'm not very good at it yet. I'm not very confident, I don't know how a camera works, you know. There's all these barriers and there's so true, and there's just and it's also really it's fairly gate-kept as well. You know, it's really hard to find someone in the industry who's willing to put their the time into you, you know. But I think like for me, I started reaching out to just whoever I knew, even if they weren't actors, but they were film industry adjacent, you know. Like I reached out to Emerson Hoskin like a a few years ago because I just thought his stuff was cool and I didn't know him. But I just reached out and said, I don't really know what's going on, I don't know this world, but I but I like the look of it and I and I want it, I want in, man, you know. And he it's not like he like opened the gates for me. He just he just had a meal with me and was like, Is that cool? So who are you? And and then we made a film together and then I met more people and I met more peers, you know, and and and found my mentors. And of course there's Lou who I didn't really, you know, because I was out of the industry for like 10 years and I knew her 10 years ago when I was acting more. But when I sort of arrived back in the industry and I and I started doing workshops, you know, we reconnected and then I was like, oh, you're you're this really lovely, supportive person who's so so willing to put in the time for these actors in this industry. But yeah, I think it is it's such a difficult step to to make to there are ways to do it without committing to acting school, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 41:35

Absolutely, yeah. I'm a big believer of that.

SPEAKER_04: 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 41:38

Yeah. I was never formally trained.

SPEAKER_04: 41:40

Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, you were trained on SEM as a kid, right?

SPEAKER_01: 41:45

In yeah, apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_04: 41:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the best training, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 41:51

Yeah, I I enjoyed it. It's primed me well for Scream, but then I have my struggles getting into theatre because it's like, well, where do we do that?

SPEAKER_04: 41:58

Do you want to do that? Uh, do you do that?

SPEAKER_01: 42:00

I would like to do more of it for sure. I've only ever done um well, obviously I grew up dancing, so I was in the theatre all the time as a kid.

SPEAKER_03: 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:07

But then I've only ever done one fringe show, which is at Horton Street Theatre, which was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03: 42:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 42:12

And then I've done a few like workshops with State and I've done Ah, I worked with Cram Collective and wrote a monologue and performed that. Nice. Um, and that's why that is my limited kind of acting theatre experience outside of school. So then that's why I went to Lambda. I was like, let me just crash course some theatre acting real quick so I can trust myself when I tell people I can do this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 42:36

You know, can we talk about Lambda then? Yes. Because I want to know, like, well, tell us what what is Lambda?

SPEAKER_01: 42:40

Okay, so Lambda is the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Arts. It's uh it's a sexy school. It's a sexy school in London. Um, they've got a good classics program, they're kind of known for that. Um I went there earlier this year to do just an um an intensive in classical and Jacobian, Shakespearean and Jacobian theatre. So 1600s British theatre. And I thought, where better to learn that than in London itself.

SPEAKER_04: 43:08

Yeah, that's awesome. And tell us who you went with.

SPEAKER_01: 43:11

I went with Kavitha. Yeah. Um Kavitha Renanda Sivam. She's a phenomenal actor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 43:17

I want to get her on too, and I know she's nervous, but I'm I'm gonna twist her arm. I think we'll have a great.

SPEAKER_01: 43:22

Good luck, she's quite stubborn.

SPEAKER_04: 43:24

Just so you're always invited, Kavitha.

SPEAKER_01: 43:25

Yeah, Kavitha, come on. We had the best time. We had an amazing time. And I'm so glad we had that experience shared together. And I think because it was shared, I think I'm gonna get way more out of it than if I had done it alone.

SPEAKER_04: 43:38

Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:39

More buddy system in this industry, please.

SPEAKER_04: 43:41

Yeah, that's where that's where that thought was going, eh? When you go and do a theatre project, have you ever gone into a project not knowing anyone at all?

SPEAKER_01: 43:48

Yeah, every time.

SPEAKER_04: 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:49

I don't know many people in the theatre industry. Like I haven't done much of it.

SPEAKER_04: 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:53

Have you done lots of theatre?

SPEAKER_04: 43:54

I've done quite a bit, but not like not like professional. Yeah. Lots of indie and like amateur theatre.

SPEAKER_01: 44:00

Have you done lots of fringe kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_04: 44:01

I I did a fr I no, I I've done one fringe show. I did it a couple years ago. They're wild, aren't they? It was great, it was really fun. I was like a singer and stuff, and like uh I did a lot of circus-y stuff and magic shows.

SPEAKER_03: 44:12

Circus?

SPEAKER_04: 44:13

What did you do in circus? Well, my dad my dad taught me all this like circus skills when I was young. So we just done circus before. No, he's just uh he's a he's a computer geek. I love that. I love your dad. Okay, well. No, he's great. He's just he just learned he just when we were okay, when we were kids, he taught himself how to juggle in unicycle because he had some friends at the bank that were doing that, and he thought that would be fun and he could entertain us with that. And then when we got a little bit older, he taught us all those skills. And so so we said when I was like really young, like I don't know, maybe eight or ten or something, we would do the Christmas pageant and ride our unicycles through the pageant as clowns. Oh, that's it's really sweet. Like the whole family, the little clown family.

SPEAKER_01: 44:56

Oh my god, that's so cute.

SPEAKER_04: 44:58

It's a big cute, eh?

SPEAKER_01: 44:59

Yeah, what a skill to put on your uh your resume as well.

SPEAKER_04: 45:02

Well, it's the it's the first time it's actually come in handy. So, like we so we grew just grew up juggling and unicycling and never did. We just like I would go to this is so sweet, man. Juggling club with dad.

SPEAKER_01: 45:14

Stop.

SPEAKER_04: 45:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:16

I want dad on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 45:17

I should have him on. He's he's so great. But that was our Monday night activity, going to juggling club and and learning to juggle, and we'll just go and ride our unicycles. Little brats on the unicycles. And um, but the first time it came in handy was recently on a on a commercial and they were looking for circus performers. But I just sent in a video of me juggling, and then a video of me unicycling, and then I just did a talk to camera and I said, I don't know what you want, I don't know what your ads are about, but I can do this if you need me. And they're like, Great, can you walk on stilts? And so I found some stilts that weekend, and I and I'm like a friend had some and I sent in a video of me walking on stilts. Turns out it's not that hard. And um, I got the gig.

SPEAKER_01: 46:01

Nice.

SPEAKER_04: 46:01

But it's the first time that anything circusy has come in handy in terms of like acting.

SPEAKER_01: 46:05

It all pays off. Yeah, everything extra pays off.

SPEAKER_04: 46:09

Literally, literally, I've got this little like I'm just adding to my Yeah, it truly is that thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 46:15

The more you have around you, the more you have going on, yeah, the more appealing I think that makes you. Yeah. That's a lot of pressure for everyone. Um, I don't still dance, no. I did it from like eight to like twenty, and now I don't anymore.

SPEAKER_04: 46:30

And I just think it's ever come in handy with like movement stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 46:34

It's come in handy for movement stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 46:36

I guess having that real spatial awareness and body awareness is it's gotta be it's gotta be something, right?

SPEAKER_01: 46:43

Absolutely. And it like um even just like as a stage presence thing and the way you hold yourself. Yeah. I've had directors before tell me not to stand in fifth position because I'll accidentally revert back when I'm on stage sometimes.

SPEAKER_04: 46:55

I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_01: 46:56

It's belly.

SPEAKER_04: 46:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 46:58

Um but no, it's great. Like I did, I I love I love doing a lot of movement work on stage because of that. Like we were playing around with like the role of the witches when we were studying, and it's like crawling across the the stage and you know, just the mobility, like having that increased mobility and um so I I mainly did contemporary, like that was my favorite genre. Yeah, so I think that makes you quite flexible and interpretive with the opportunities and how you move. Yeah, I think it comes in handy a lot with acting. I think the more theatre I do, the more it'll come in handy too. Yes. Manifesting. Definitely.

SPEAKER_04: 47:32

Yeah. Well, any any theatre directors.

SPEAKER_00: 47:35

Yeah, hi. Hi. Hi, put me in. Put me in, coach.

SPEAKER_04: 47:40

Um, I feel I realize I've just done a massive tangent and talked about me and my dad and circus for a little while. But we're great. I want to know about Lambda and I want to know about your experience doing doing Shakespeare in London. It was so much fun. So had you done Shakespeare before?

SPEAKER_01: 47:54

Um, I had done Shakespeare at school.

SPEAKER_04: 47:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:56

That was the extent of my Shakespeare. Like in high school. Yeah, so we did we did like Shakespeare like at school in drama, in English, whatever. Um, but I hadn't kind of done anything since then.

SPEAKER_04: 48:06

Yeah. Do you feel like you got it in high school? Like you understood it?

SPEAKER_01: 48:09

I did love it in high school because I loved poetry. Yeah. I loved literacy, I loved books, I loved words. So I loved Shakespeare for the words. Um, but I also thought that they were a bit overrated and that we took them too seriously. But then when it came to doing to s why I chose this course, it was because I figured if I can prove to myself I can do classical, the classical technique, I wanted to learn technique of like acting technique, you know, that kind of not just like contemporary scene breakdowns that I'd kind of seen before. I wanted to learn stuff that I hadn't learned before. And so it was great. It was really intensive. We did like three workshops every morning. So we did one that was based in, there were lots of different classes, but one would always be something vocal-based, um, one would be something movement-based, and one would be something text or acting based. And then after lunch, we would go into practicing our plays with our play director. Um and we were broken down into three separate cohorts. Um, so there were three plays going on concurrently. So I did Kavitha and I were in the same group, and we both did Macbeth, and we did The White Devil, which is a Jacobian by I think Webster. And it was really interesting doing a Jacobian piece because it's the same time as Shakespeare, but we don't hear about anyone else who was writing at that time quite often in school. So it was good to get to study that and see what other writers were doing at that time as well, and how they differed from Shakespeare and how they were the same.

SPEAKER_04: 49:38

Was it quite different?

SPEAKER_01: 49:39

Quite different, quite different in Shakespeare. When you compare him to the others, he's quite philosophical in a way that I think is quite universal and timeless. A lot of the others I feel like weren't quite as timeless. They'd touch on themes that were really relevant at the time and still have like relevance in today's world, but the hu sense of humor um sometimes remains a bit dated. Right. Um, but as my text teacher Heather said, it's about recontextualizing it when we put it on in modern days. I see.

SPEAKER_04: 50:08

So there's justification for the the outdated jokes.

SPEAKER_01: 50:13

There's ways to work around it, you know. There's ways to there's ways to angle it so that it's commentary or like what if we set it here? Or like, you know, just thinking about how we recontextualize it will have impact what we're saying.

SPEAKER_04: 50:27

I see, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:28

I think it's so cool that you you took that leap and went in you went overseas and did this like As you said, you get to that point where you feel like you hit a kind of standstill creatively, or like with your ability, and you're like, I need to do something to shake it up. I need to go do that course with Teresa Palmer, I need to go do that classical theatre thing, I need to go do some singing lessons and improve myself vocally.

SPEAKER_04: 50:47

Like, yeah. Do you feel like you have to constantly get take yourself out of your comfort zone to to keep progressing?

SPEAKER_01: 50:54

I feel like I do, but I don't think you need to. I think I think that that's something we tell ourselves a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_03: 51:00

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 51:01

What do you think though? I I think that that's personally a way to make us feel like we're progressing. Like the fact that we need feel the need to bring in new stuff. Because I think that'll happen to you inevitably anyway. Like I think everything you do is a valid experience. And I think we're always progressing inevitably because of that.

SPEAKER_04: 51:18

I I think you're right. I don't think I don't think you need to. I don't think it's the only the only answer.

SPEAKER_01: 51:23

I think it's like act as guilt. I think it's our to hurt.

SPEAKER_04: 51:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you disagree though? Oh, I don't know. I f maybe it it does help to just to just break that sort of uh if you're in a bit of a cycle or a loop of of um you know, or you're plateauing or something, maybe it is it is helpful to be like, okay, well, what can I do? Like at the time I did the workshop, you know, because I I wasn't really I didn't really know anyone and I was trying to sort of find my way into the industry again and and I was only learning from myself, which isn't really very helpful, you know, if you're just sort of telling yourself, good job all the time and no one's no one's you don't have a critical eye. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 52:01

You know, someone who's unbiased or like doesn't have like yeah, preconceived ideas about you coming in and just being like, This is what I think.

SPEAKER_04: 52:07

Yeah, exactly. And someone that cares about you enough to actually give you feedback that's gonna help help you, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 52:13

Yeah. I'm so 50-50 on whether I think we should just throw ourselves into like these opportunities when we see them come up, or if we should move with purpose and choose those opportunities specifically.

SPEAKER_04: 52:25

What what kind of opportunities are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01: 52:27

Like you were talking about like uh feeling like we need to be uncomfortable or put ourselves out there to progress. Like give yourself like I'm so 50-50 on whether I feel like you know, if there's an opportunity to do this clowning workshop and you're like, I've never really wanted to be a clown, but it might be interesting to learn how to be a clown. Should I just do that and sign up for that and do it? For the sake of doing it. I'll learn something. Yeah, exactly. It's like there's something to be learnt there, and there's something that will inform you going forward, I'm sure, because you're always gonna take something away.

SPEAKER_02: 52:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 52:57

But should we be like just constantly filling our time with things here and there like that? Or should we be going, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna sit still for a while and I'm gonna look at maybe doing something in the future that feels more specific to like what I want. I don't know. Maybe we need a balance of that. Maybe we should just follow whatever opportunity comes our way, or maybe we should only act with intention. I don't know what the answer is. It's probably just three different ways of being. There probably is no right or wrong.

SPEAKER_04: 53:22

But you're probably the latter. But I think I think it is important to be deliberate in what you what you choose to do, how you spend your time. Like I wouldn't just do some I mean, I say no to stuff.

SPEAKER_01: 53:33

You do? I'm so bad at it.

SPEAKER_04: 53:34

Oh really?

SPEAKER_01: 53:35

I'm so fucking bad at it. Tell me, tell me though, when when will you say no to something? Like what makes you decide to say no to something?

SPEAKER_04: 53:41

Oh, I mean, if if there's a project that I just don't think maybe it's maybe it's a little too amateur. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:48

Maybe and you know you're not gonna have a good time on it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 53:51

I or I might not do I don't think it'll be the environment where I'm gonna do my best work. Or I just am overwhelmed with other things and I'm like, not right now, you know? Um yeah, I can't think of an example. I think I think there was something recently where someone asked me to do something and I just said, no, that's okay.

SPEAKER_01: 54:09

That's such a skill. That's such a skill.

SPEAKER_04: 54:11

Thank you though.

SPEAKER_01: 54:12

That's great. Like I'm glad you did that.

SPEAKER_04: 54:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's come from the fact that I used to get myself in these situations where I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Why why am I here? I don't want to do this.

SPEAKER_00: 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 54:24

Maybe that's a 34-year-old thing, you know. No, I'm trying to do that. You learn to set up some boundaries finally in your life. And like, yeah, there are certain yeah, certain things I'm I I wouldn't do just for the sake of doing them. Or because somebody somebody has sold it as a really good opportunity, but you can like you just get a vibe and be like, is it though? Are you just selling me snake oil? You know what I mean? Like, you know, and I've seen a lot of people sort of get themselves into these situations as well. So um but then there are people that I really trust in this industry as well, and they say, do this, and I'll s might might blindly just be like, Okay, if you say so, because I really trust you, I'll do it. But no, I don't I don't think you should just say yes to everything. Like, yeah, I think you need some some direction. Direct, yeah, absolutely. And it start to form in your head like a plan of where who you what kind of actor you want to be and what kind of projects you want to be in, and um what's a waste of time and what's what might be really helpful, you know. Clowning might be really helpful for someone, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 55:26

Yeah, sorry to all the clown is out there, clowns, sorry to all the clowns out there. This is not a dig on you.

SPEAKER_04: 55:32

No, not at all. It was it was rhetorical. It was a um a leash skill set. Yeah, yeah. Um diabolics in cinemas.

SPEAKER_01: 55:39

Diabolics in cinemas, yeah, fully. Yeah, as of like today.

SPEAKER_04: 55:43

Look at you. Tell us about diabolic, come on.

SPEAKER_01: 55:47

I mean um diabolic is a movie that I was in. Um, it's a horror film. Yeah. It's set in Utah. It's about a character called Elise, and she is being plagued by these uh I guess kind of like they're kind of like night, like sleepwalking terrors. She's like up in the middle of the night scratching bones out of the ground, doing demonic shit. And essentially, her psych is like, This is getting really bad. We're gonna need to send you back to where you came from, that fundamentalist Mormon group you came from.

SPEAKER_03: 56:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 56:24

And we're gonna give you we're gonna give you some drugs, and we're gonna get that out of your system.

SPEAKER_04: 56:28

That's how you do it. That's the cure.

SPEAKER_01: 56:30

We're gonna cure you. And so then uh shit happens.

SPEAKER_04: 56:35

And then some shit, yeah. Then some shit happens. From then on it's spoilers.

SPEAKER_01: 56:38

Yep, and I'm her little I'm her. Oh, can I spoil it? No, don't say it. Don't say it. Yeah, I can't say who I am because it's a spoiler.

SPEAKER_04: 56:45

But you're great and I've seen it.

SPEAKER_01: 56:47

Do you think my explanation was great? I'm terrible at explaining movies. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 56:51

Ayahuasca.

SPEAKER_01: 56:52

Datura.

SPEAKER_04: 56:53

Datura.

SPEAKER_01: 56:54

Datura root.

SPEAKER_04: 56:55

Datura root. I did my audition right here.

SPEAKER_01: 56:57

Really? Yeah. With Jesus. Crazy. With who?

SPEAKER_04: 57:01

Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 57:02

Amazing phenomenal. Yeah, and the accent we got to do in the movie was very specific as well. It was like they've got their own dialect in this little group in Utah because they really to themselves. Yeah. And they've because of their way of being and their culture as well, like the females being like told to keep sweet, pray and obey.

SPEAKER_00: 57:19

So keep sweet. So like they talk really, like, really cutesy and like quite small in the mouth.

SPEAKER_03: 57:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 57:26

It's really I'm not really doing it right now, but like Yeah, it kind of like the O's almost sound Canadian when they do it, and it's just very, like, yeah, very cutesy.

SPEAKER_01: 57:35

I felt really bad for sound because I was talking at such a low volume the whole time.

SPEAKER_04: 57:39

Did you have like an uh an accent coach for that?

SPEAKER_01: 57:42

Yes, Jennifer Innes, she taught us that accent. Um, and it was a bit different for all of us. So some of us were in Gen Am, some of us were in um this specific Utah fundamentalist accent. And then also um some of us had to be in like an older fashioned, older generation version of that accent as well.

SPEAKER_04: 58:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:04

So there was a bit going on.

SPEAKER_04: 58:05

That's a good challenge. You were great in that, man.

SPEAKER_01: 58:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04: 58:08

That eye to eye scene. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:10

No spoilers, but that was funny to record because it's crazy doing that and not looking at your acting partner, like having to look down the barrel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 58:18

Uh and that's Dan Phillips.

SPEAKER_01: 58:20

That is Dan J. Phillips himself, the man, the myth, the legend.

SPEAKER_04: 58:23

Yeah, we go. Um, what else, man? What else? How are we doing? Oh, I I want to know like what what uh have you learnt from theatre?

SPEAKER_01: 58:31

I really don't think I've done an enough. I think my friends who are predominantly theatre actors, yeah, they've taught me about preparation in a way that I don't always see in screen and forescreen. Theatre feels so much more about becoming a character rather than already being it. Whereas I feel like in film it's like you're only really gonna get cast if you're like exactly what they're looking for in the first place. Yeah. Whereas I feel like yeah, theatre's a bit more um willing to let you evolve and willing to let you be something different to yourself.

SPEAKER_04: 59:04

When I started doing theatre again, like properly out of high school, yeah, that's when I think my acting really stepped up.

SPEAKER_01: 59:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 59:13

Because before I don't really know what I was doing before, I was just kind of probably just performing. But all this sort of script analysis and character development that well, the time that you're given in when you're rehearsing a play is like had become I realized how valuable that was.

SPEAKER_01: 59:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 59:28

Like just the time to actually connect to something and understand it, comprehend it.

SPEAKER_01: 59:33

And to all get on board about your shared vision, like to create that shared vision of what you're actually working towards is so in about like so valuable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 59:41

Which you don't really get the time to do that on a on a film necessarily.

SPEAKER_01: 59:45

No, like again, this is something it so feels so weird saying because I'm 24, but I remember like at the start of my career, we'd have a month of pre. We'd have a month of rehearsals, we'd have a few weeks of rehearsals at least.

SPEAKER_03: 59:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 59:57

On like everything I did, it'd be like, okay, win a rehearsal. Study. Now it's like you're lucky if you have like two days. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:03

Or you just rock up and you meet everyone on the day and you're like, okay, now we have to have chemistry.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:08

Yeah, exactly. Because you don't even really have chemistry reads the same way you used to have chemistry reads for a lot of things.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:13

No.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:14

Yeah. Or if they are chemistry reads, you're like over Zoom, you're not even in the room anymore.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:18

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:19

I miss it. Like chemistry reads used to be my favorite part of the process. Yeah. It was that exciting thing of like, I'm in the room, but so is someone else, and we're going for the same thing, but there's also two versions of every other character, and now we have to figure out who gets along the best. Yeah. That was wild. Yeah. And as a social being, I really liked that system because I felt like I was good at getting along with people.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:38

Yeah, I never really understood it. I f I I get along with most people. Yeah, exactly. I'd be really heartbroken if I had a bad condition read. I'm like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:46

If they saw you interact with people and they're like, oh, didn't like them together.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:49

Just seem really weird. Oh.

unknown: 1:00:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:52

Oh, ouch, I guess. Um, yeah, no, it was great. Wait, where have we come from? Where were we just come from?

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:58

Kind of like thinking about like the time that you're given on it in theatre and and that time to really comprehend something and understand a character and and connect to them and care. Care. Yes, yes. I sort of had this epiphany recent like in the last few years of like when I feel ready to play a character is when I like love that character, like I really care for that character as if they're a real person that exists in the world. Yeah. And I can talk about them, like, oh, there's this, because I don't really necessarily feel as maybe as much empathy for myself, but for other people, I'm like, but this guy, like, you don't understand what he went through, like, you know, what his life has been like, and I really love them and I care for them and have to do them justice, you know. Yeah. Then I can sort of put myself in their sh in their shoes. But and acting in theater really, that's that's how I figure that out for myself. Was just sitting with the idea of this character or the the person that we're sort of the main character in the play, even and just like understanding their story and why this is so important to tell this story, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:57

You have that time to sit with them, yeah, and you know that you're gonna run through the story arc from beginning to end every time you do it. So you can feel that emotional high and that emotional low as you're like, you know, you can feel the peaks and troughs, and you can you can really embody it a lot easier than I think you can in in TV and film. Yeah. But I also TV and film is my first love, and I I fucking love TV and film, and I would happily work in TV and film for the rest of my life. And I feel like I think I find that the ways I connect are different in both mediums.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:29

Um, I think that theatre, I feel like is really for me about physicalizing. Yeah. Getting it in my body moving. And film, I feel like to me, I spend a lot of time intellectualizing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:41

And I I love that I one of my favorite things is that you're in situ. Like if you're filming and you're down at the beach, you actually are at the beach. If you're in a house, you're actually in that living room. You're surrounded by the the given circumstances at all times. And I love that about it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:59

Um, it feels really immersive. It feels really intimate. I love, I think people talk about theater as if it's intimate as well. But for me, I just love the intimacy of like it's you, one other actor on the camera. Like, I love that intimacy. I love the delayed gratification. I love forgetting about it before it even comes out. I love like that detachment. Um, yeah, I I just there's so much to love about both, really.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:23

Yeah, there there is. I think for theatre is was really my education for film and TV in the in the sense of like all that comprehension and and connection to the story. Yeah. I because I I still I still prefer film and TV, but I think theatre is one of those things that I have to like do every couple of years at least, or more than that if I can, um to sort of re-establish those skills for myself, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:48

I see that. Yeah, I feel that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:49

Yeah, I'm excited to see you do do some theatre, man.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:52

I hope that I get to show you some. That'd be great. I hope so. I think I'll do you have anything coming up?

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:57

Uh I've got an audition for something for a theatre, which I'm excited about.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:03

I won't make you jinx it. I won't make you jinx it right now.

unknown: 1:04:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:07

Do you get superstitious about like don't tell anyone about the callback?

SPEAKER_04: 1:04:11

I don't believe in it, but but I still I still do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I still do it. But I get I do get excited. Yeah. If I have something cool, I'd be like, Mom, oh my god. But Sana, my girlfriend, she she um I don't know what I don't know what what it's called, but she she always says like, don't talk about it because uh I think there's a belief in it's either Hinduism or Buddhism, because she's both. Yeah. But um she's like, you don't know if someone out there has like sort of um negative energy towards you. It's like if you if you put it out in the world, then that person might be sort of wishing um, you know, negative outcomes on you. Yeah, that's it, that's it. The evil eye, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a very vegan thing. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't talk about it because someone might have the evil eye on you. And I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:58

Just go get a little Greek lady to spit on you, you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:02

Oh, is that it?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:02

Yeah, yeah, sport it off.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:04

Sweet. Well, have you got a guy?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:06

I got I got a few. I got a few. I got a few old ladies that would be willing to spit on you. I'll hit you up.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:11

Because I yeah, because I I can't keep it in otherwise. Yeah, I mean, uh, do you are you superstitious?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:16

Um, I'm not superstitious, but I do find myself partaking in actors' superstitions, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:20

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think my friend was laughing at me when I was traveling um with a couple of my friends recently. I had like a callback and I was talking to one of my actor friends after.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:32

I can't even remember what we were saying, but we were just having classic actor chat, you know, like, oh, but you don't want to jinx yourself, and yeah, no, I shouldn't be talking about it right now. And um, oh yeah, this is this, but I'm not gonna trust what that means, and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my friends were like laughing at me. They were like, oh my god, actors, like the way they talk. Like we were just being so superstitious about everything.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:50

But I also think, like, you know, separate to the superstition and you know, anything, anything sort of out of our control. Yeah. I think maybe, maybe part of it is also psyching yourself into it or out of something as well. Like if I get too excited about something or I start telling people about it, then it then you have to tell people if you didn't get it. Yeah, it's kind of that announcing your plan thing, announcing your plans thing. Like just may keep maybe I sort of think it's best for me to keep some things to myself until it's definitely set in stone or it's out already.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:24

Until you've signed that contract and it's going ahead. Well that's it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:27

But also it might affect my work if I'm like, Yeah, you went, I don't know, imagine you're like writing a song and and you tell someone like I'm writing a song, but you haven't written it yet. And then everyone's like, How's that song going? And you're like, Oh, yeah, well, hold on, let me write it. Let me do it, you know, and they're like, Oh, is it any good? And then you show them a bit, they're like, Oh, it's not very good. You're like, it's not finished.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:46

See, but I find in that way I need to talk myself into doing things. Like, oh, okay, it helps hold me accountable. Yeah, for me to achieve things, it needs to be a performance. It does. Like, if I'm gonna sit there and write a script, I need people to know I'm writing a script, or I'm not gonna write the script because there's no one holding me to account to write the script. And the thing is, at the end of the day, it is me pushing myself to do it, not these other people. Yeah, but knowing that there's like this general expectation, not really, people don't care about you as much as you think they do.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:12

I'm the complete opposite to you. Wow, because I'm I if I if once I tell people, I'm not excited about it anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:17

Really, I'm the opposite. I have to tell people to get excited.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:19

Even with this this thing, I like I I had the idea over a year ago and I only told a couple of people. But if I knew that if I'd started telling more people, then I th I think people's people start imposing ideas onto it. Yes. And it becomes theirs, and you're like, no, it's mine. I I don't know what it's gonna be, and I'm still figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:41

But if I like if you don't want too much influence, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:07:45

And even when I like I what I love is like people people are listening to this, which is so sweet, and people uh they obviously care enough about it to give me feedback and like sort of give me their ideas. But I'm trying to when I hear that sort of feedback, I just I I I I go, Oh, that's cool. Uh I don't know if I can do that or want to do that. It's a great idea, but I I'd also just want to let this thing be whatever it is. Yeah. I don't think people realize that I don't really have that much control over what it ends up being, you know. And I prefer that. But if I announce my plans to people, then that those those um ideas sort of start piling on too early from other people, and then it's like it's not mine anymore. That's why I lose interest, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:31

Yeah, you need to figure it out for yourself before you're ready for external input.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:34

It's the same thing when you're writing. Hey, it's like you need to you need to hit that point in your draft where you're ready to let it go so that people can give you feedback and you're actually ready to hear it. Yes. Or that it's not it, you've got it structurally what you want it to be, so they're not just changing everything from the get-go. Yeah. And with acting too. Like sometimes people will give you a note and you're like, no, thanks. That part's useful. Yeah. The other part. Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:58

But I think that's okay. I I don't think I don't think people I don't think a director's necessarily going to be offended if you if something doesn't work for you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:06

I always ask questions if it doesn't.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:07

Like if I go, wait a second, do you mean like that's part of the the process of building the relationship with the director, like a collaborative relationship with the director.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:16

It's like figuring out what does work for your actor and how you like to be directed and ensuring that you're both uh excited by the choice that is gonna change the performance, you know? Like I think, you know, I'd be doing a disservice to like the crew and the story if a director were to give me a note and I were to not really understand that note or be excited about that note and just go, yeah, sure, fuck it, whatever. I'll just do that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:44

I'd rather go, wait a second, I have questions about that. Because isn't aren't we keeping in line with this other thing or you know, this other thing, and then come to a like consensus on, oh yeah, so there's got more like that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:54

And I'm like, all right, cool. Because otherwise, what's the point? Otherwise, what are you you then you're just a a soulless puppet? Yeah, yeah, right. Do you ever get like I'm sure you don't, but do you ever like think back on some of the work you've done and be like, oh that was what like that wasn't that wasn't good. Yeah, yeah. I've been the the biggest thing for me is like I I don't like when I get caught performing. Do you do you know what I mean? I know what you mean. Like when you feel it's not authentic. Yeah, you're really aware of the camera, you're just like, I'm I'm performing this and I'm not I'm not living in the moment, you know. But I've I'm sort of in my head at the moment, like kind of want to play with this idea of like thinking of myself as in a documentary as as if the camera's a fly on the wall, and that's a way to s for me to get out of my head and stop performing for being so aware of the camera and performing for it, like the camera's kind of gonna chase me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:46

Yeah, to like to to just let go of that yeah the awareness that you're being surveilled in a way, yeah, and be a bit more free.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:54

And just try to capture something, uh make a real moment happen and and let let them capture it with that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:00

Does that work for you? Do you find it?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:02

Because I think lately I think lately I've kind of played a few kind of hammy characters, which I love doing. Like the um I did a commercial recently and it was very hammy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:13

And I'm I'm good at that. Like I can ham it up and I can be like over the top and play a bit of a caricature and stuff. But I think when when you do a few of those, then you're like, wait, can I play a real character?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:23

Can I just show you this other thing?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:24

Yeah, can I can I look like are you actually capturing a real human here?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:28

It's such a thing, isn't it? You're like, I and I think this is part of it when we talk about performances we don't like, like watching ourselves in performances we don't like. I don't think that's always a bad thing if you watch yourself and you think you're bad, because I think it shows that you have a taste. It shows that you have something that you like or something that you're working towards. It also shows that you think a lot of the time. I think it shows that you know that you're capable of more than what is being seen.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:53

And I think if we think we're great all the time, then what are we aspiring towards? Yeah. Yeah, I I think I want my taste to be above my capacity so that I can I can build and grow to be that artist that is someone that's great at their craft. Yeah. You know, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna eventually look at myself and think I'm great, but I think I will always think that there's something else I could have done. Well, that's it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:16

Or something more that you want to try or achieve. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:19

But that keeps you hungry and that excites you for the next time, you know. I think if we look at our most recent work and we think, oh, that's bad, we should look at the one before it and go, is that worse?

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:29

Because if it's worse, then hey, at least you're better than that, you know.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:32

Well, but then some of it's out of your control, mate. Some of it's it's just a bad project. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:36

Direction, what you've done.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:38

We can hey, we can always blame the director.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:40

You can always blame the director, the editor. But that also comes down to what you were saying about um feeling like you're contrived in a moment. It's like that a lot of the time isn't under your control either, because a director might be like, I'm sorry, can we just have you more steel and just more static and just more intently staring? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, can we just have a smaller performance? It's such an important relationship, that one between director and actor. Yeah. I think we need to work on finding those people around us. I think we need to work on building those relationships like from the ground up.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:08

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:09

Like, hey, you and me, we have absolutely no credits and no merit in this industry, but I like the way you think and you like the way I think. Let's make something together. Yeah, yeah. And then let's keep making stuff together. And then eventually we'll get into carn. It'll be amazing. We'll be so successful. Like that. That's my that's my goal.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:24

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:25

I'm working on the yeah, I found I found some of my people. I found some of my people. Always willing to like build what my people are.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:31

You got such a you got a really cool crew. I got a fun little screen. Yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:36

Yeah, there's some little keyties there who are making it.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:38

You guys do some really cool stuff, man. You said you were writing a short film. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:43

Are you directing that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:45

So I have written and directed a short film already. So that was called Nothing Gold Can Stay. That was car clue funded.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:50

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:51

And then now I'm adapting. So I wrote a monologue for Cram Collective called The Fish Rots from the Head that we performed in their Edges show, which was a compilation of monologues. And now I'm taking the monologue I wrote from that and I've turned it into a short film. And I've gone up for some funding. So fingers crossed again. Should find out in a week or so. So by the time this is out, I might find out I have no money to make it. But but I'm still glad that that script is there because now I've got that as a writing sample, and now I can move on to writing more stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:20

And let's see.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:21

Yeah, I definitely want to write a bit more. And you're gonna direct it that one or no, so I wanna write it and act in it and maybe assist the producer a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:32

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:33

We're trying out here, it's hard out here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:35

I'm so uh I'm envious of that energy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:38

Bro, you're here making a podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:41

This is a lot this is this is a full production thing that you're doing on your own.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:45

It's a lot. I'm so behind. I'm so behind, man. I'm supposed to release what day is it? Uh it's Friday. I was supposed to release an episode yesterday. I I can't keep up with it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:54

Fuck, so you're releasing every Thursday like the cinemas.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:57

I was trying to. It hasn't happened at all.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:00

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:00

But yeah, yeah, whatever. Have grace with it. Well, I know I know also know that people are behind on listening. Like people are telling me, like, hey, I just caught up. And I'm like, all right, hold on, just wait. There's more coming.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:10

There's more coming, just wait.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:11

Yeah. Um, do you want to plug yourself on Instagram?

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:15

Sure. Hi, uh, my name is Lucas Ardellis. You can follow me on Instagram at L-U-C-A-S-A-R-D-E-L-I-S. That's just my name, Lucas Ardellis.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:25

Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:26

No, thank you so much for having me. It means a lot. And it's cool, as I said, it's really cool to support what's going on in our community here locally. Because we've got some great people.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:36

Thanks so much, man. Thank you. This is so good.

unknown: 1:15:38

I'm glad. Thanks for coming.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:40

You know what, if I'm honest, I was feeling a little bit down the day that we recorded that chat. Nothing to do with the chat, obviously, just you know, just having one of those days. But you know what? I don't think it shows. And I I credit that to Luca for just being a really amazing conversationalist and making sense of my very convoluted questions. So thanks, Luca. It definitely cheered me up having you on. So thanks, thanks for that. Luca, you're so awesome, man. Thanks for coming on. I'm really excited to see what comes next for you and all the amazing things that are coming your way. Please give her a follow on Instagram at Lucasard. And while you've got the app open, give the podcast a follow at go pluckyourselfpod and give me a follow at featuring underscore Chris underscore gun. Yeah. And hey, by the way, if you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to support the show and help me to keep this thing going, you can do that by signing up to the Patreon via patreon.com slash gopluckyourself pod and contributing as little as five dollars a month towards the show. That's less than a coffee a month, or I don't know, three quarters of a schooner of non-alcoholic beer. Okay, you guys still here? Yeah, okay. Um hit subscribe on the YouTube channel, share this episode with a friend, do all the things. As I said, I have one more episode after this before I head off to the Philippines. But stay tuned for my next episode. I'm so excited to uh surprise you with that guest. He's a total icon of this industry. You'll know him. Music by my amazing cousin Nick Gunn. Check him out on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash nick gun. Happy new year, everybody. Let's make it a productive and collaborative year. My name is Chris Gunn, and hey, go pluck yourself.