Ep 17 Sasha Simic: Embracing Flexibility in Your Acting Career

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Sasha Simic has toured the world doing what he loves. Musical theatre, stunt work at Universal Studios Japan, cruise ships, theme parks, Jersey Boys in Alaska, even playing a pirate in the Bahamas.

And he was gonna be a doctor.

In this episode of Go Pluck Yourself: The Actor’s Pursuit, I sit down with Sasha for a proper chat about building a career in the performing arts without really knowing what you’re doing at the start. We talk about saying yes before you feel ready, learning under pressure, getting humbled, killing your ego, and figuring things out in real time.

We get into musical theatre versus film and TV, auditioning with no clue how auditions work, working internationally as a performer, the reality of theatre in Australia, social media for actors, and being the antithesis of impostor syndrome. He shares what it was like growing up in a refugee family after the Yugoslav war, how a high school drama teacher changed the direction of his life, and why staying open to everything has probably been his biggest strength.

This is a conversation about curiosity, building your toolbox, and understanding that you have to be bad at something before you can be good at it. It is about confidence versus ego, maturing as an artist, and what actually happens after drama school when the real world hits.

If you are an actor, performer, creative, or someone trying to carve out a life in the entertainment industry, this one is for you.

Go Pluck Yourself is an independent acting podcast hosted by Chris Gun. New episodes drop fortnightly. If the podcast fires you up creatively, hit subscribe and share it with someone who needs it

Available to watch on YouTube or listen on all podcast platforms

Transcript

Welcome, Format Shift & Housekeeping

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, my name's Sasha Simmich and you should go pluck yourself.

Meet Sasha: World Tours At 29

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Hello and welcome to Go Pluck Yourself, the Actors Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. How are we doing guys? We okay? Doing alright? We coping alright? I got a lot of new followers this week. Instagram kind of went crazy, which is really lovely. I've been enjoying the dopamine hits from all the new followers. So if you just join this little community, welcome. This is Go Pluck Yourself. It's a podcast for actors and filmmakers. But hey, if you're not an actor or a filmmaker, you're welcome here too. So why did I start this podcast? Well, because every time I'm on a film set or in a rehearsal room or whatever, I always end up having these really lovely, in-depth chats with my fellow actors and filmmakers. And to be honest, these kinds of conversations are where I learn the most about the industry and different processes and new ideas and perspectives. So I thought, why not share these chats with whoever wants to listen? And if that's you, you're in the right place. So here we are. If you'd like to participate in any of the conversations, please feel free to drop a comment in any of the videos. Now I do want to announce a slight change in the way that I do things here. When I started this podcast, the goal was to deliver weekly episodes. But if you're a regular listener, I'm sure you would have noticed by now that I'm clearly not keeping up with that. So instead of chasing my tail and promising weekly episodes, I'm just gonna move to Fortnightly because I want to give you guys the best product that I can. And if that means giving myself a little bit more time to put together an episode, then that's what I'm gonna do. Maybe one day I'll go back to weekly episodes, but for now, I know my limits. There's no point burning myself out. Um, and I think I look tired. Do I look tired? Apparently I look tired. Cause I am. Okay, guys, today I'm sitting down with someone who at 29 years old has already toured the entire world doing what he loves. He's performed in musicals, in theatre, at theme parks, on cruise lines. He's just gotten back from four months in Japan. The guy has literally been everywhere. His name is Sasha Simich, and what I love about Sasha is that he's got this kind of very endearing naivety, which has probably been his biggest strength, I think. He's he's like the antithesis of imposter syndrome, you know. He just doesn't seem to have ever let his lack of experience, if he's ever had that, get in the way of trying new things. Which is kind of how experience works. Like you have to experience things to become experienced at things. And he's got this wonderful memory and a lovely, excitable way of telling stories, and it's really beautiful to watch. And he's really cheeky and confident and spontaneous, and you know, one minute he'll be talking about his parents' escape in the Yugoslav War, and the next he's sitting there with one leg over his head. You know, I just love the way his brain fires from one story to another. It was just really fun to sit down with him and chat, and you're gonna love it. Okay, guys, hit subscribe, give us a follow on Instagram, share this podcast with someone, you know, get this thing out there. Please enjoy my wonderful chat with the delightful Sasha Simich. Oh yeah, editing is a whole is a whole thing, man. It takes me like three days to edit an episode.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, but you're very meticulous and like I want it to look or sound exactly like this. So you'll do three days of that.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, I'm like taking out breaths and ums and le and then like leaving the right amount in so it still sounds natural, you know. What is the right amount of breath to leave in? Just enough to not pass out.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

I guess on the topic of social media. Hey, you you start the interview. I like this. Nice seriously. Yeah, go, go. Welcome to uh plucked. Yeah, that's what it's called. Plucked. What is this? Proper like what is the idea? Go pluck yourself. Go pluck yourself. I'm so sorry. Go pluck yourself. Yeah. I have watched Go Pluck Yourself. Oh, have you? Because I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

Look at me, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Don't worry, they're not there. Oh, I'm just doing my thing to the crowd. Yeah, I know, I know. You better give them cheese shots. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. What was I talking about? Social media. Yeah. It's a necessity for us as a performer, right? Yeah. You have to be able to understand how to do media training by yourself, how to post the correct things and all this and that. So many skills that you just don't cover in training, I feel like. Like, no, there's no training on this.

Editing Obsession & Social Media Reality

SPEAKER_02 4:25

No. You just have to start doing it. I mean, it's a lot of time. It's also a lot of money to do something. It's a lot of money, it's a lot of time. No. But I also think it's not the only way to there are definitely actors that are um not like really prominent on social media that are still, you know, having really good careers. It's if you want to like get your name out there and you've got the skills, it's really help helpful. But I mean, I know actors that are just getting work and they're they hardly ever post. So it might be well. You can also just be a really good actor. Hey Chris, what's that like? I don't know. I don't I'm not taking that road. I'm taking I'm I'm a podcaster. Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Um, how do you go about it? I mean well, my realm of performing is much more in the theatre aspect. I'm much more of a live performer. I do TV and film, and most of my work is in commercial work. Uh but I'm very prominent on live scene stuff. Yeah. And I've just found in the last, well, probably when COVID happened and we all had to go into sending tapes all the time, right? Yeah. On a lot of those forms that like you submit your things through, there's always a question about your social handles, your social tags, everything like that. Yeah, true. And I'm just like, is it you're making sure this person isn't problematic? Like, are you going through their background check? Which makes sense. Makes sense, right? You don't want someone problematic on tour. Yeah. Or is it a matter of are you popular enough for us to sell tickets? Do you think that's a factor in theater? 100%. Really? 100%. Because it's at the end of the day, it's a business. Everything's a business, right? The people that are putting on the show have to make enough money to do that show and any future shows they want to do. Today, literally today on theatre works, I read a article about another um musical theater production company going into liquidation. Really? Second time they've gone into liquidation and they've just permanently said, We're done, we're closing it off. I've noticed it a few times. It last year and this year, just like a lot of companies are shutting down because they're just not making enough money to do touring musicals or live theatre and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Yeah, it's so what kind of companies are uh sort of thriving in in the in that scene?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Ones that have an international market, I find, do very well. International, because I work a lot internationally, like I fly over to Asia and Europe and America a lot and stuff. Overseas, like the arts bloom. People will come and watch anything and everything. Like it's much more involved. I feel like we've for a long time here had to fight for support for the arts, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

As in from the government. The government, or not not the audience necessarily. Not the audience necessarily. The government. It's not like an Australia, like it's like a it's an attitude towards the arts.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

It is culturally as well. I feel like the people that come to the arts fall into specific categories. Like anytime I go to an opening night or I watch a show, yeah, the biggest majority I feel like are people 60 plus, 50 plus, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But I think that's also like a degenerational thing of you would go to watch a show, yeah. A real life show. That was entertainment. You weren't sitting at home, Netflix, Hulu, whatever else.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yeah, they that's how they grew up. Like going to the theater, that's how that was their entertainment. And then you were just scrolling.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Doom scroll. No, literally, though, we are. And it's like a lot of the uh marketing training I've been like reading into and doing for socials and stuff, talks about just like when you're putting out content, it can't be five to ten minutes anymore. It has to be 30 second to a minute clips. Yeah. Because people are just bro.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Is that what you've been having to Well, no, I was just thinking about that whole thing about how on Netflix, like and all the streaming platforms, they're the shows that they're writing. Basically, the idea is that like it needs to be dumb enough so that people that are scrolling on their phone can still follow what they're watching on Netflix. So they're dumbing down the writing so that you can just be like tune in every now and then and be like, oh yeah, bad guy chasing good guy. Yeah, we're losing depth. Yeah, and it's like, oh my god, like what are we doing? You know what I mean? We're accommodating to the masses, is what we're doing. Yeah, but no, don't accommodate. They need to they need we need to go back. You accommodate, don't you? The masses need to go, this isn't actually very nice. We need to go back to what's enjoyable and go back to the theater, and you know, well, this is long form.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

This kind of loops uh back to what I was saying before with why people aren't coming to watch theatre as much and stuff. It's this idea that like we have so many other priorities in life at the moment that spending$80,$90 to go watch a musical or whatever else is not justifiable for me to do when I can sit on my phone and just scroll through my vertical dramas.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Well, mate.

Followers, Casting, And The Business Of Theatre

SPEAKER_02 8:51

I don't want to live in that world. No, you're right. It's what is the draw to go go and see some live theater now when it's that it it costs so much. And you can get the dopamine fix at home.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah. I that's the thing though, like I'm sure you have the same experience because we of what we do when you go to watch something that you also participate in.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

You can you can never really just be an observer. You have to to some degree be a professional, I guess would maybe be the right way to put it. Yeah. But you're like, Well, what what is that experience for you then? So, like if I go to watch a musical, I'm going to notice if something is off. I'm gonna notice if like someone missings something. Yeah, because I mean you just do it for so long, you get fine-tuned to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

And it's like, because I literally like for months on end, I'm surrounded by the same people singing the same stuff in the same show. And yeah, if you go to watch that same show done by a different company somewhere, you are going to notice when something's off or out or whatever else. Right. So there's that, and then there's the other thing of like wow factor. Yeah, the last time I watched a show where I went, Whoa, was Mary Poppins when it was here? Yes, yeah, that was unreal. My friend, she was in it, and she was like, Oh, come to opening out, I got you some tickets. I was like, I love you, you're the best. Yeah, and I was sitting at the back and I am watching somebody tap dance on the ceiling, and I'm going, I have never in my life seen this before. And I was losing my mind, and just like it's a spectacle, it's beautiful. It was so good. And when she flies out into the audience, and when she flies out to the audience, just and I'm like, Yeah, oh, I would pay$200 to come watch this. Yeah, but I think that's the thing. You're gonna if you're gonna draw people in that aren't either in that generation of I want to see old stuff or I like musicals or I like theatre, you have to have a spectacle of some kind, something that's gonna go, oh damn, that was worth coming to see this.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

But then like, who's gonna watch indie theater and stuff? Because like I feel like the only people that are gonna watch that are the friends of people that are in it and like that sort of immediate group, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

I think it depends on location. Because one of the things I found living in Melbourne, yeah, you have the opportunity to go do anything any night of the week. I got really into going to open mic poetry. Right. And so every Wednesday I'd go to this pub with a bunch of people, like-minded people, and there's you know, there's like 15-20 people there, but they're there every week doing open mic poetry. Right. Good luck trying to do that here and have a like a consistent audience of 20 people. Why is that? Because we're just so niche and we're just so small here. We just don't think to do stuff like that. Like to go out. People here just want to go watch the AFL. Yeah, right. Like I I'm doing an open mic comedy night on Monday to get my comedic skills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah, in the city. But I got into doing the comedy stuff in Melbourne as well, because a big scene there for it. And people come to that, but it's again, it's very limited. Like I go to open mics where you play guitar and sing with a friend. You do you play? Or do you switch? I play and sing, I play and sing. Sing! I like how I've come back for a holiday, but I'm just basically performing still. Well, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

It's so good. Yeah, isn't that why you're doing it?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, or it's I mean, it's too late. It's fun for you. It's fun for me. But uh, when I first started performing, I fell into performing accidentally. That's how I grew up in Sydney and I was a swimmer for a very long time. Very good. Like, wanted was gonna go pro and do all that sort of stuff, and then just quit when I was 17, 16, because it just got too much for me. Right, okay. And mum and dad were like, or uh I come from a very ethnic uh family. Or you are going to be doctor then. That's my dad. Yeah. You'd not want to swim, you'll be doctor. Right. And I was like, guess I'll be a doctor. Yeah. And I'm like riddled, riddled with ADHD, unmedicated, uninterested, just having a fun time being a showboat during school and stuff. I remember in year 11, like we I took all the smart subjects. I took uh chemistry, bio, extension to English. And then I think it was three months in, I went, hate all this. And my drama teacher was the first time I'd done drama.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

The reason I do performing for a living is because of this woman, Miss Angela Price. We love you. We did a an improv like in the circle kind of thing, and I went, ham, because I was having the time of my life. She just looks at me and goes, Have you ever genuinely thought about doing this as a career? Really? Yeah. And I was like, No. She goes, I think you could. And I went, I might. I might Angela. I might just do that. Sure thing. So I drop all my subjects that are smart. I go to the bare basics. I fully invest into drama. Yeah. The other drama teacher works in community theatre. And he's like, Can you uh Sasha, you sing and dance? Because I had done a bit of dancing when I was in primary school and stuff. And he's like, We need a boy dancer in this show we're doing, it's a musical. So I went and did that. And then basically, long story short, uh, went to you need to do performing arts in Wollongong. Yeah. And that was terrible. Really? Basically, the the course they were doing at the time was very like not me. That's that's the best way to put it. It was very like intrinsic acting, like removing the facade of performing and trying to get really internalized and very like Stanislavsky orientated, but without the the names and the techniques and the history of it, I guess. It was much more like everything was about feeling. Everything was so like fundamentally about internal feeling rather than external factors. And so you're you you prefer that sort of more performative type of at 18 when you're young and you have no experience about it and your understanding of what you do is your understanding. Yeah. Like you don't have ways to explain how you do the things you do, but you're good at it. Yeah, ignorance and arrogance are a forefront for an 18-year-old man. Yeah, sure, yeah. And so I dropped out and then was working at JB Highfired in the warehouse and then did this audition for Universal Studios Japan. Right. So I auditioned to be a host. Yeah. I was like, I can do that. And I went to the audition, and I'd never been to auditions. Like again, I'm not from this world, so I don't have any like understanding of the performing arts at this point.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah.

Culture, Government Support & Spectacle

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Made a CV, just bummed a CV, printed out my headshot at Officeworks. Had a date with my high school girlfriend that day. So I was dressed in like date clothes to go out afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

So I rock up to this studio with this audition is and bless these people, man. They were so nice to me. They could tell I was so lost. Because like I rock up, everyone's wearing like when you do a music theater degree or any kind of like performing arts, they teach you to wear like long black uh pants that you can dance in, nice shoes, character shoes, and then a nice fitting shirt. What were you wearing? Chinos and fucking polo, like just looking like, just looking like a tool, basically. And I rock up and I'm like, is this the audition for Universal? And the guy at the desk is like, oh sweetheart. Yeah. Here's your number. I go in, I think I did a monologue from a movie I'd never seen. Just like just made my own version of that monologue.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

They loved it. They were pissing themselves laughing at the panel, and I was like, that's a good sign.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

They go, Have you got anything else for us? And I went, nah. You told me to bring one monologue that you gave me, so I just brought that. And they were like, oh, uh, just wait outside. So I go outside. Yeah. I'm waiting, and like they cut for 20 people, it's me and two other people. And they go, How would you feel about auditioning to be uh a stunt man? And I went, Never done it. I go, I've played sport, pretty good sport. Yeah. They're like, Yeah, that's fine. Uh, we're gonna make you do a physical test. And so some guy that was like there to test stunt people, yeah, he just made me do like flexibility, basic, like is your body injured kind of stuff. And then I think a month later I get a phone call and he's like, How would you like to come to Japan? And then we have a career, the career starts.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

And so and as a stunt man?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So I get trained in stunts to do this show called Terminator 2 3D, where I guess what play Terminator. Wow. And like I come in on this motorbike on a track and I shoot this like T1000. Yeah, it was insane. I do that. Dude, that's so cool, man. So crazy, dude. No, no prior experience. You can go to the date. Yeah, of course. She's my girlfriend at the time, of course. I was like, babe, I had a great audition, and she was like, that's nice. Yeah, so I start doing stunts. I'm also dancing in a pr in two different parades. Like there's a nighttime parade, a daytime parade. Yeah. And you live in this massive apartment complex, 200 performers. Yeah. You have the most talented people around you. Like people that can sing, can dance, can act, can do stunt work, and like love what they do, and they're the top of their craft. Like I met the most still to this, like this is 10 years ago now.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Still to this day, the people I met in that first contract, some of the best performers I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. Hands down. And I was, again, arrogant, young, ignorant, thought I could do everything because I was just naturally good at some stuff. And so I take on, like, you know, all these extra dancing things, singing things, thinking I could do all this stuff. And basically a couple years later, the reality of, oh, when I go to Uni to do a music theater degree, and I realize, oh, I can't sing. I don't know how to sing. Oh, I can dance okay. Like I can keep in time. Yeah. Like the reality of how under skilled you are for where you were prior is just a big reality. And then in that same vein, you understand, oh, I have to be able to do everything. Yes. It's not enough to do one thing. And that doesn't necessarily just mean performing. It means like I just keep learning that the more you just have to know more and more and more and more and more. Yeah. Like there's never an ending thing. I learned to do magic last month. Did you? Like stage magic for this gig.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

What kind of magic?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

I'm talking like it was a Christmas show. Yeah. Third trick, which is the last trick, big trick. I disappear and Santa Claus appears.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

What?

Watching As Pros: Standards And Wow Moments

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Big illusion. From the North Pole. I hope so. Wow. So there's the last trick. The first trick is there's a locked box hanging above the stage. Yeah. It's there from the start of the show. I make a point going, that box is going to be here the whole time. Hey, hey, little kid, can you hold this key? It opens that box. Then later on in the show, we basically do this big bit where I throw a beach ball into the audience and I ask three questions and we write three answers on the whiteboard. And then I proceed to tell everybody I've actually written those three answers in that box before the show started that you've all just randomly read out. Yeah, yeah. And then that's the truth. It's in the box. It's in the box. How did he know?

unknown 18:33

Magic.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Oh, oh, it's magic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so I had to learn stuff like that. That's sick. Never doing magic before. And I was like, I can't believe I'm 10 years into this and I'm still learning new stuff.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yeah, of course, man. It's crazy. Yeah, no. I think the fact that you're so open to just like adding to your toolbox and learning new experiences. Yeah. It's so cool. So where where did all the dancing where did that come from? Because that was quite, you were quite young when you started that.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

This is a very funny one. This is thanks to my mother. So I went to uh I guess I'll give a bit of background for my family, my life. So I'm actually a refugee baby. Right. So mum and dad were uh refugees from the Yugoslavian war, came over to Australia. I was born, first gen. Yeah. Very like quiet child life. Like didn't really go out to people's houses like you would as a kid because mum and dad were like, you know, still, you know, recovering from what's just happened.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Like we don't know where we are, we don't trust everybody. Yeah, like it's a slow getting used to the country and people around you and stuff. And so I spent a lot of time by myself, but mum and dad worked all the time. And so when there was like extracurricular school stuff at the public school we went to, um, they would sign me up. And so one of the things was dancing on a Wednesday afternoon. So we were like seven to ten year olds, I think it was hip-hop dancing, but I remember what the song was, and it was One Two Step by Sierra. Oh yeah. Uh automatic super sanity fresh. Yeah, yeah. So we learned this hip-hop routine to this song. Yeah. It's Halloween, I think, around this time. Right. Because we then go to the Westfield shopping center in our local shopping center to perform this routine we've learned, wearing like monster masks from the Halloween shop.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

And that is where I started dancing, and then I basically would you just fall in love with it then? Or did you enjoy it then? I just enjoyed doing something physical. I'm also I'm hyper flexible for no reason in my legs. Right. Which I can demonstrate, I think, on camera right now. Oh my god. But that's my leg.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

That's the thumbnail right there.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

There you go. So I've had that since I was a kid, like just stupidly flexible. Sorry, we broke Chris. Oh, that was so unnecessary. Because of the whole swimming stuff growing up, I was good at that. And then in year eight and nine in high school, we did electives.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

And I picked woodwork. That's my masculine. Oh, yeah. Masculine strong. I did that because I'm a because I'm a strong guy. Okay. And I picked dance. Because I'm also a strong man. That's right. Only boy in the class, eight people in the class, seven girls, one boy. And we did like contemporary dance.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

This guy better do woodwork.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Um, so I did it in high school as well for a bit, but like that was all rudimentary. It wasn't anything crazy complicated. Because when I went to uni and I'm like with dancers in a dance class, people that grew up dancing from like five, and like mum and dad, mum took you to dance classes every afternoon. Different ball game, like completely different ball game. Yeah. Like I would never I can dance. I never say I'm a dancer.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

No, I just dancer. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 21:27

It's weird. People get real like uppity about stuff like that, about the labels you give yourself as a performer sometimes. Okay. Where they're like, oh, really? How many years of classical ballet did you do? Okay, that you gotta qualify yourself. Well, in their eyes. Yeah. But that's like it's a subjective matter, right? It's like how pretentious are you to care about how my training works or what I can do.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

How much do I have to have done for it to count to you? That's what I'm saying. Yeah. People got used to get it's like, it's like when you call yourself an actor and they say, Oh yeah, what have you been in? And you're like, enough, man. What's it to you?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My my good rule. Dad actually gave me this rule. Was it dad? I think so. But basically, you are considered a professional at your job when you are paid for it. That's the rule.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yeah, yeah. I like that. I kind of that's how I kind of saw it.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

If you've been paid to do it, you are a professional.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

And you can't tell me otherwise. Yeah. Because who gets paid to do something they don't know how to do?

SPEAKER_02 22:21

I I've always said that. Like that's how I kind of qualified it for myself as well. I'm like, I'm getting paid to act now. I'm an actor. I'm a professional actor. But I heard a good one recently. Give yourself the label first and then earn it. You know? You can call yourself an actor and then you gotta work for it. And then earn it to yourself. Yeah for yourself. Do you know what I mean? What do you think of that? It's like setting a goal. Kind of, yeah, yeah. But at least at least you're you're not selling yourself short to other people. You're not like because the problem was always like, oh yeah, I'll do a bit of acting. I'll do a bit of acting. And then no one's gonna hire you if you just do a bit of acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but if you say I'm an actor and then you earn it. It's better to be- I want to go do some workshops quickly.

Open Mic Scenes, Comedy, And Musical Versatility

SPEAKER_01 23:01

I'm 100% with you though. It's better to be overconfident than underconfident in any kind of application like that, because I guarantee I mean not on this CV, but my first CV where I had, you know, when you used to do CVs and it'd be like skills and you'd have 70 million things you could do on your skills like juggling, uh jet skiing, or you know, whatever else. I remember like the amount of shit I put on there that I could not do, but I was like, if I need to do it, like I had backflip on there and I remember getting caught up for a commercial, like, can you backflip off a wall? And I was like, I could learn. Well, yeah, I mean, don't put yourself in danger. I mean, don't backflip off a wall if you can't backflip off a wall, but like I mean, I probably have a limit. Okay, truthfully, have you ever had anything on your performing CV where you were like, I can probably figure it out or I can fluff it if I need to do it.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Um yeah, but only because I knew I I was confident that I could I could probably do it.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Um, it's too recent. I'm talking specifically for me about accents. I have a lot of accents on there where I'm like, I have done that accent and I know I can do it if you give me whatever prep time. Yeah, I can't. Can't do it on the fly. Not well. Probably no. Yeah, yeah. But if you give me like three, four days of like, here's a script, you need to do this accent. I promise you I will have that accent in those four days. You're pretty good at accents, yeah. But I'm multilingual, so I think that kind of leans into it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

I would let them put me forward for the gig. And if I had a bit of time, like I I would, I would, you know, I'd put in the work to see if I can do it, and usually I can figure it out, but there's certain accents I definitely can't do.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

I think that's just in general we're not allowed to do uh anymore. Oh yeah, I'm not talking about them, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's hips we're not allowed to do, I'm pretty sure, unless the role calls for it, I guess. Uh holy shit, man. Well, think about no let's get cancelled. What about the no? I'm just this is I think it's relevant.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah. You know, in the I mean I can't do Scottish very well, is what I was saying. Yeah. And I'm Scottish, so I can say that. I can do that. And we're gonna leave that there, and we're not gonna get cancelled. Well, like, well, if you did have something that you were like, if you were offered something that you thought, well, no, this isn't appropriate for me to do, how would you go about how would you go about like letting them know, like, look, I don't wanna, I don't want to let you guys down, but I don't think that I'm the right person for this. I don't think I should even audition for it because it's not not right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So I I'm I lean into my agent a lot when that comes to that sort of stuff because they're so good at talking. Like their whole job is to talk to producers, directors, uh casting, all that sort of stuff. We have a good relationship where I'll sometimes get auditions for stuff that I turn down because I'm like, I'm either A, not interested in that role, or B, I don't think I fit that character. So I've had auditions like that where it's like I'm a I'm a big dude, I'm 6'4, yeah, built like a Eastern European fridge, basically.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

The best kind of fridge is the best kind, the strongest.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Yeah, yeah. And I I hate tycing. Like I know it's a thing and it's like you can't avoid it and whatever else, because it's like I know that I can do all these other things that you would look at me and go, oh, we can't put him in that because he looks the way he looks, and that's fine. But sometimes I'll get auditions for stuff where I'm aware, like, I don't look anything like this. Like, why have they asked me for this when I know it's like it says, you know, five eight, like skinny, like uh I'd auditioned for Marty McFly's dad for something in uh Back to the Future, like from a musical thing somewhere. And I was just like, I can play like a a geeky little like, but visually you're gonna see that and be like, oh no, no, like he's two heads bigger than the other people. Why are we doing that? So like I was like, Oh, I'm good. Like, I don't think you didn't go for it. Because why am I gonna spend then because you you and I are similar, I think, in this where like we go hard on our editions, like I'll I'll build my backstory, I'll ask myself, I'll do the my whole like analysis of a script to get into the right space and I'll embody my script and I'll put in the time and effort to learn it to do the best I can do. Yeah, why waste my time and your time when we both know that if we get to round two or round three or in life, real life, when you see me, you're gonna clock me and be like, oh never mind. Yeah, I see. Because I feel like people don't actually read your height on CVs anymore. I think because we're because we're such a self-tape society, they just go visually off what they see. Yeah, right? And if you're shooting in mid, you're not getting how tall somebody is, unless they're shooting next to a measuring tape.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Maybe that's why I have more luck with self-tapes because people don't realise how short I am. And then they get on set. They're like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_01 27:19

I think being I mean, you can you can probably call me on this, but I think being shorter is better in TV and film. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

You don't think so?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

I mean, I uh I don't think it's been a problem.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Um's been fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard like a lot of actors are really short. Connor Connor was saying was when he came on, he was saying that like when he went over to Khan and he's like, Oh, everyone was so short. And I was like, Oh yeah, I think we'll be okay. Yeah, we'll make it. We'll be all right, you know. Yeah, Damon Harriman was like, he's like my height, he's doing okay. Yeah, he's doing great.

From Refugee Roots To First Auditions

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Um I think he'll be alright. I think I think he'll make it. I think he's got a good career in there. I met Jason Momoa when we did Aquaman years and years, the first Aquaman, like years and years and years and years ago. And I remember meeting him and being like, he's gonna be massive. Actually, he was you know what I like him a lot, he's real chill. He he was coming past on his golf cart and he was just eating chicken like out of it, like out of a thing. Because we were lining up to do the okay. I feel like you've probably done it before. You know when you uh are doing extras work or whatever else and they put you in the the room with like seven million cameras around to do the CGI stuff. I've never done that. No, I've done it once, I've only ever done it once, but basically for the extras, they yeah, put us into this room, there's like a thing. Oh, for Aquaman, like yeah, for Aquaman, yeah. But he comes past in this golf cart eating chicken, and we're all like, oh, what's up, Jason? He's just like, what's up, guys? And he like, he's like, stop the car. Gets off. He's like, You guys want some chicken? And I was like, first of all, sick. Secondly, I'm clocking him, he's my height. And I'm like, You are a normal sized person, but they make you out to seem like a giant. Oh really? Because I think how tall is he? My height's like 6'4. That's huge.

unknown 28:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:52

For me. For you, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

I don't know. Well, but that's okay. That's it. But you know, like you see him on screen, like you know, screen makes you look how it looks.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

But it's just like this thing of if you're 6'4 and everyone else's this is what I find in theatre a thing, a common thing. Right, yeah. I did Jersey boys last year in Alaska.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Yeah, it's so cool, man. Oh man, just dropping this shit.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

One of my one of my favorite photos uh slash videos is my friend Tommy. He's like, he's beautiful, this like 5'5 American dude, loveliest dude ever. Yeah, skinny, amazing singer, just like real small compared to me.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And he's like covering one of the roles on stage next to me, and it's basically we're backstage, uh, I'm playing bass, he's playing electric guitar, and we're doing backup vocals for one of the scenes. Wow. There's a photo of me and him next to each other in these matching black suits, and it looks like I've taken my son to work. Like, I it's just it's just me and my kid. Like, it just looks ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just stuff like that where I'm like, in TV land, that's not uncommon. So you see somebody 6'4, you're like, that guy's massive. Yeah. Theater, you can clock when somebody's huge because they're physically like ahead of it.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

I have had to stand on Apple boxes uh for commercials and stuff because my my like my cast mate is like really tall. Can we get a box for this guy? I'm like, oh, how humiliating. I think what's that mean? I bring my own box now. Nah BYO, yeah, P Y O V. Bring your own box. It comes with own box. New CV, extra skills brings own box. I'll bring my own box. Weirdest commercial you've done? Weirdest commercial I've done. Yeah, the the most the most recent one I did was this um Puopalo Salami commercial. It was really fun. Like uh, yeah, I I played the father and his son, and uh so they put me in like the the older older man makeup with the big bushy moustache and and then like this like curly wig when I was younger and stuff. That was cool. That was cool. It was wicked. It was it was a massive production, it was so much fun. And it's really funny. Here? Melbourne. Wow Yeah, a few months ago. That's awesome. Yeah, it was sick. I like those fun ones.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah, I loved it, man. I love that stuff. My silliest, probably the most fun too, is for it was years ago, it was for this kangaroo sausage brand called Kru. Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:00

And basically the shop, it's it's like we do we do commercials for small goods. Sausages, salami, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Kangaroo meat. Yeah. That's the look we have. That's the type cards. I'm a vegetarian. Ironically, oh no, yeah, yeah. You're just there like hey man, I'll support this. Have you got a tofu salami open or instead? Anyway, you uh yes, I do this kangaroo meat commercial, and it was basically in the same shooting weight. Do you remember Superwog? Yeah, that that like YouTube channel. It was kind of like that, where it was like me and this guy are like lifting uh bench pressing in the backyard, like on a thing, and I'm like, one more rep, one more rep. Yeah, yeah. And then my mum comes out, or his mum comes out, and she's like, Boys, there's kanga bangers. And then I'm like, oh yeah, and I like run over, and then he's like, Bro, do you roo? And I go, Yes, I do. I remember that. Do you remember that commercial? Was it you? That's me. I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah. How long ago was that? A couple years ago. I'm sure I've seen that since I've known you.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Oh yeah, you have, you have.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

I didn't even recognise you in the ad. Just what can I say?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

I keep getting people messaging me going about because they just renewed that SA Hospitality ad that we both did. Which one did we do? Remember the one where it was by SA, the one that we did? Where there was all those vignettes.

unknown 32:14

Did you?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Oh, I wasn't in that.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

I thought you did that one.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Was I? I feel like you did do that one. Oh, it doesn't. No, I don't think I did. Wait, what were they? I might have. I can't I think like I can't remember what I've done. I feel like it's you at the beach or something with sand.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

I don't think I did one. I don't think because I have no recollection of that. Are you still getting rollovers for that? Because that if I did one, I would like to roll over.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Yeah, they just they literally just renewed it this year, and I was like, I'm holding like a wine bottle and talking about wine, and it's funny. Oh, okay. I've still got commercials here when I've not been here for like years at a time.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

They're still running here. They're still running. I love that man.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

I did a love a rollover. I love a rollover.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

So it always comes with the right thing. Surprise roll over. Yeah, yeah. Just went when I'm on holiday or something, and I'm like, we're out of money. Not anymore. We are I did a Weber. It's such a that's such a flex right there, anyway. Yeah, I mean it's not much. Professional. It's it's not a lot of money. Please sign up to the Patreon.

Japan: Stunts, Parades, And Levelling Up

SPEAKER_01 33:12

I did a commercial for Weber Grills. Right, okay. Uh for the and it was it during the big bash cricket was on. Yeah, yeah. With my friends, I I'd like to play the oh, I'm famous card a lot of the time. Just because it's it's funny. It's a good little bit. Yeah. Oh, I do this bit. Sorry, there is context. I do this bit because in Japan, when you work, you get what's called super fans. And so every time I do a contract over there for the show I'm doing, I'll get these super fans who follow you like on Instagram, come to every single one of your shows, take photos and videos, buy you gifts, like send you stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

It's like where do they come from? What do you mean? Japan.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah. Okay. That's that's yeah, that is what I meant. Yeah. Um, so you can get what's called an annual pass at Universal, which lets you go to the park every day. Yeah. And some fans' entire life revolves around going to the park every day. Holy shit. To see their favorite people. Wow. Yeah. It's full on.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

And they're from Japan. And they're from Japan. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

So had a couple of them. And when you come back to Australia and you try to explain that to people, they're like, what? Yeah, like me. Like, what? But like they're like, oh, you well, you were famous. And I'm like, in that universe? Universal? Yes. Yeah. Like, yes. But in reality, no.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

As in, like you either the actor or the character you're playing?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Uh both. Okay. Both. Well, I just uh I was just over there for Halloween. Yeah. And maybe I was friends with a character named Chris Redfield. He and I were very good friends.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Oh, you know Chris?

SPEAKER_01 34:39

I know Chris from that Resident Evil game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so like there's people that love Chris and then buy the byproduct is they like the person that Chris is friends with. It pays to be friends with Chris.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

It pays to be friends with Chris. That's what I always say.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

So stuff like that. And so we're sitting one time in um Peel Street, we're having a wine meeting two of my friends. This man walks past, this delivery driver. He's got like a what do you call him? Like a trolley with a bunch of cases. And he just looks disheveled, like hair coming out over here. Like just he's walking past. And then he just goes, I'm like, just locks eyes with me.

unknown 35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

And I'm looking at him and I'm like, all right, what okay. And then he walks past and he looks back and then he keeps walking. And I'm like, anyway, whatever. It's Adelaide, not unusual for stuff like that to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he comes back like 20 minutes later, stops right in front of us, and he just goes, I know you. And I go, Oh, and he goes, You were on that Weber ad at the cricket. He's a super fan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he said that to me. He's like, Are you friends with Chris? And he does that, he goes, Great commercial. And then he just walks off. And I'm I'm like taking a minute because that's process what's just happened. So funny. Then I'm smiling from ear to ear to look at the two friends and go, I told you I was famous. They were like, they're like, I can't believe that just happened. I'm so upset.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

I did years and years ago, I did a commercial called Crazy K where I played this like try-hard rapper that loses his license. Everyone at the time thought it was real because it was made to look like the character Crazy K made it himself. It was like a rap video and a little mockumentary. There's two two videos that went out. You know, all the comments on YouTube were like, You're the worst rapper in Adelaide. This is like you can't even rap. And it was so funny because I'm like, Yeah, well, obviously it's meant to be shit. Yeah. Anyway, that was played in like schools and stuff, and it was like played in cinemas and stuff. And years later, I moved into this like a share house with some friends, and we got a new housemate. And we're all sitting in the lounge room, just all chatting. Like, we just met this new housemate. And my friends are like kind of like they love bringing up crazy K. They're like, Oh, Chris did this really funny ad crazy K, it's really funny. And then this guy's like, What? And like, yeah, yeah, it's really funny. We'll show you. He's like, No, wait, are you crazy K? And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did this ad. He's just like fuck. And he runs out of the room and he gets his phone and he calls his mate, he's like, I just moved in with Crazy K. And we all just like lost it. And then I had to explain to him, I'm like, yeah, no, I'm not a rapper. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, my whole life's revolved around me. Yeah, a real person. That's nuts. That was so funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

I made the mistake of so I just did this, like I said, this Christmas tour with the magic and stuff. Yeah. And it's me, the male vocalist, female vocalist, female musician, yeah, and then six or seven calisthenics girls that do like calisthenics. But one of the things they love to bring up after I told them trying to like have a bonding moment was I go, oh, fun. Like we're doing fun facts. I'm like, okay, fun fact. Uh I was the biggest baby born in Australia in 50 years. Random fun fact.

SPEAKER_02 37:41

Real fact?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Real fact. Prior to me being born, there was a big baby baby. Oh big baby, then I was the biggest baby. And then you know what the funnest fact after me? My high school girlfriend was the next biggest baby after me.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

You know what? It takes was that how'd you find each other? Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a website. Just on Tinder, you just like that was your bios. Like, fun fact. I was just having too.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

I'm just having the visual of people watching this and then getting that moment. And I'm like, yeah, that does sound insane.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

So funny. So but do you bring that up a lot?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Every single show that we do or any kind of like uh interview thing, that comes up immediately. And it's like we're doing photos after the show, and they're like, You guys were so good, we love the magic. And the girls go, Oh, thank you so much. Did you know he was the biggest baby born in Australia? And then I go, What the fuck? Are you still? Nah, no, that well, she is. But I don't know if she is still. I'm sure by no, I'm sure by now it's been broken. We're just getting bigger and bigger as people, are we not?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Imagine if you two had a baby. I don't want to bring up old old flames. That's fine. She's cool. That guy would have been huge. Ah, yes, an acting podcast. That's what I was saying. ADHD, just kind of like going to team. Yeah, I haven't asked a single question in this episode, and I love it. Oh, I'm so sorry. I want to continue the the journey, the story that you you've sort of been telling, because we started off really young. You kind of found this thing, and you and you found it by being very curious about trying different things and adding to your skill set and adding to your toolbox, right? And not just like actors toolbox, just like things that sounded fun to you. Yeah. And even if you you weren't qualified, you were just I could do that. Yeah. I I think that's such a great attitude. And it's probably it's it's such a great way to sort of get into anything because we're not experts at anything when we first start. And I love that that didn't hold you back at all. Like I did this um Paw Patrol show. I've done it twice now. Do you know Paul Patrol? Yeah. I played Ryder, who's the main, the main guy, and I'd never done anything like that before. And I'm in the like the full like the costume, and I've I spiked my hair up when I had hair, spiked it all like up really high, and I come out on stage. I'm like, hey guys, I'm writer. But there was like dancing in it, and I'd never I'm not obviously not a dancer. And all the rehearsals, we kind of had to independently rehearse without a choreographer there. So we had to just figure this out on our own. But they still gave you the Cori? They had videos that we had to copy it from these videos, right? And the day before we went on to perform, that was the first day we met the actual director. And she's like, Okay, what do you got? And we're like, holy fuck. I mean, I've got these like four pups in their in their full suits, costumes, yeah. With the big, you know, they can't see a thing, right? I'm like, all right, you ready, pups, you know? And very quickly, one of the first things she said to me, like, I like didn't do one of the moves, and she's like, You're not finishing your moves, and I'm like, I have no idea what that means. And I was like, I am I'm so out of my depth here. But it was one of those moments where I was like, I need to figure this out real quick. Like, I can't just fall into the trap of going, I don't know what I'm doing. I have to be like, I have to figure out what I'm doing right now. So I'm like, all right, what do you mean by that? And she's like, you have to finish your moves. I was like, okay, moves, dance moves have to be big. They have to, you know, I'm on a stage in front of a thousand, you know, two thousand kids. Like, you it's got to be big. But I we did it. We we pulled it off, and she was really happy. But I had to like, I just had to learn from her really quickly. Yeah. I mean, did you have that experience when you is that what it was like when you first like got into like dancing? Do you think? Yeah. You've just my brain's just gone a million miles a second.

Labels, Professionalism & Owning Your Craft

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Yeah, six. Good. Please save me from this question. That's all right. So for myself, I know I learn best under pressure. You put me in a you put me in a room, and this probably answers both of these questions. Like when I came back from Japan, uh, I went to the States for like a couple months. And I came back to Oz and I was doing a lot of dancing corporate gigs in Sydney. Again, not really like trained as a dancer properly with trained dances. Yeah. But I was very, very good at picking up stuff. Like I'm I'm like sponge-like, just very good at like you just tell me stuff and I'll pick it up. And I'm also real good at like I'm very uh rigorous with like uh routine. Yeah. I go to the gym every day because it's just like my brain just functions better. And I I'm good at every single day I will do this thing. So for the dancing stuff, it was like out of my depth, but very, very good at matching the level around me, like put the pressure on and I'll I'll I'll get to the game. I think that's like a sporting thing though, because it's like when I was swimming, it's like the guy next to me is catching up. I better or they're ahead of me, I better pull up, otherwise I'm screwed. Yeah. So it's like that, I think subconsciously happens. Yeah. I guess for you, do you find with learning stuff, especially stuff that might not be in your wheelhouse, do you need like, give me three weeks with somebody helping me, give me my own time and like two, like what's the best learning?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I think I'm pretty good at gauging like what I do need and how much time I do need. But yeah, I think like I do have a le I I do understand my my my body and my skill set and my even if it's like learning an accent, like I I have a rough idea of like what I think I might be capable of before I commit to it. But I also I think from a young age I've realized that learning something is a process and I understand the process. I understand that you're not good at something when you first start it, but I know what what time can do for that, anyway, and repetition can do for that. And I know I just understand that the process is as long as you put the time in and you re you put the repetitions in, you will be crap at something until suddenly you're not so crap at it anymore, and then you'll be good at it. And just trusting that, like try it's like learning lines, like you won't remember the lines for the first you know, 40 reads, and then on the 41st read, you're like, oh it's starting to go in. And then after a hundred reads, you're like, This is this is second nature to me. Yeah, you know, but just understanding that, like, yeah, of course I'm not good at this yet. You know? So if if there's pressure, it just means like you gotta you gotta compress that. Yeah. You know, you gotta we gotta put the repetitions in. Do you think you thrive in that environment though? Do you think you're better at the end of the year? Yeah, I do because like well, I think that that's because I'm excited I'm excited about it. For that period of time. And I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like hyper focus on this thing for the next two weeks. And I know that I won't, I won't distract from that. Like uh I was talking about like stilt walking for a commercial recently uh in the last podcast, and like I'd I'd grown up doing circus stuff, like juggling and unicycling, and but stilt walking was kind of a new thing, and I think I'd done it when I was younger, but I was like, Yeah, I I could do this. So I I found some stilts. A friend of mine had some stilts and I like went and practiced on them and I sent a video in of me walking on the stilts, and I'm like, Yeah, I I can do this. Yeah, great. And then I just kept practicing on them, and then even after the wardrobe call, they let me hold on to the stilts and I would just walk around the house, you know, using these stilts. But I knew that I like I knew how much time I needed to put in to be confident to do this gig, you know. Yeah, I think I know that process, like, and I think it comes from like when I was younger learning things like learning the piano or learning um guitar or juggling, you know. I remember when I was really young and dad was teaching us to juggle, and that moment where it clicked, like I remember I can still see it. I can still see that moment where like suddenly I was like, Dad, I'm doing it. And I could just I wouldn't I wasn't dropping them anymore. And it was like my body just the brain found the pathway, you know, it made the connection. It was like there it is. And I I remember the same thing happened when I was um learning to play guitar and sing at the same time because it's like you know, up until you know I was 16, I could play guitar and I could sing, but not at the same time. And I remember this just this one day I was playing I Can Tell That We're Gonna Be Friends by the White Stripes. Yeah, and it's a nice it's simple on the guitar, it's like you know, two two strings at a time. And I started singing, and then my my usually my fingers would stop as soon as I started singing, but I I started playing this and it it I could feel like my brain just made that connection, and I I was singing and playing at the same time and my fingers were still going and I was singing like nicely, and I was like, guys, I'm doing it. And from then on, I could just do that, I could sing and play at the same time from then on. So just like trusting that process that like it's gonna be weird, it's gonna be clunky for a little while, but you just keep putting the work in and putting the time in, and eventually it will click into place. And that has been the thing that has like allowed me to not fear trying new things and being bad at something. Because you have to be initially good, yeah. You have to be bad initially. So there's a and maybe that's why the the dancing thing for Paul Vitrol was like I I know we only have one more day, but I know myself, yeah, I know my body, and I I I think I have enough time. Yeah, I know exactly how much time I need to put into this tonight to figure this out, you know.

Casting Ethics, Agents, And Type Realities

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Half my journey as a performer because I started so late, like I started at 18, 17, yeah, has been learning as I go. So for me, it was like the third year of uni. I remember the moment specifically, I was doing vocal lessons with my singing teacher, and it clicked. And I was like, Yeah, and she's and she stopped, whatever I was. I was singing, we've both stopped the song and then looked at each other and she was like, What just happened? Because you just went to where we we've been trying to get you to for the last like year. Yeah. And I was like, I think I just get it. Like, I think I just understand what's happening. And it was like at that point, oh, I can sing. I'm a singer now. Yeah. But then like in that realm, like I think I just get it, yeah. Yeah, but like in so true, it's so umbrella as well, because it's like obviously every skill goes into so many things. Like, if you sing, you know, you've got different genres, you've got harmonies, you've got all these different aspects. Yeah. Then li it things became like when I did Jersey Boys, was not good at harmonies. And right the start of that show is pure a cappella harmony. And so I then had to learn to do that in like a week to and be good because it's over there, it's like when you're in a professional setting like that, if you're not up to the standard, they cut you. Yeah. After you've already got the contract and you're there. Really? Right? Yeah. So I was like, I better step up. And this is the thing, pressure. Yeah. Surrounded by incredible gifted performers who are super empathetic and loving and like a great cast that were like, hey bro, we'll help you after the rehearsals, like, you know, yeah, taking the time with me to run through it, like real good people. Yeah. So stuff like that. And then with the dancing, it's the same thing. I had to learn tap dancing in uni. Wow. I can tap dance a little bit. Yeah. I do not like doing it. Oh, really? There's something visually disturbing about a man my size going tip di tip dip tip tip. Hey, man. I don't know. I look at myself and I go, What are you doing? Maybe it's just a me having opinions about myself. Yeah, okay, yeah. But then at the same time, I do ballet, and you'd think, oh, that would look interesting with the size. And then I'm like, Yeah, but I have I love it. I love to doing ballet. Yeah, yeah. Because I've got the nice flexibility, very strong, straight lines. And like my teacher would always be like, You have such beautiful line work. And I'd be like, Thank you. I don't want to go to tap. Yeah. But just even in that, it's just like the people I was, it was how motivated are you to do better? I guess is the ultimate thing. Yeah. I went back to that uni after I graduated, after I done Jersey Boys and did like a QA with the kids and stuff. And I just found like the thing I kept talking about was this is what you make of it. It's easy to get an arts degree. You just go and show up and you do the work.

SPEAKER_02 49:09

Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Do you want to leave this course as a triple threat or a well-refined performer who understands in depth what they're doing, who can go into any kind of situation and be ready?

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Or do you want to be have to face the things I face where I neglected doing harmony work at uni? So when I did my first job, I was in crisis because I then had to learn that.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Right. I see.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

So it's like you get these opportunities to do things. And I guess I don't know, maybe it's it's it might be a privileged mentality because I find a lot of people that grow up having the availability to do whatever, to go to dance classes and do singing lessons and stuff. Because I didn't have that when I was a kid. Like we had nothing. We came from a war. Yeah. You know, bare minimum. Like I went to do swimming and that was the only thing we could have me go do, kind of. And for them to come into an environment where it's like the expectation is on you to learn how much you want to learn. Yeah. There's this kind of predisposition of ego being like, oh, I'm pretty talented because you get told you're really good your whole life, and then you audition for a course and you get let in that you don't think you need to work on something because you're good at it, so you focus on other things, but you are not as good as you r think in that thing you do do.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Yes, I know what you mean. And I think that's something I've learned in the last few years, probably around the time I met you, is that like how the importance of sort of getting humbled every now and then. It's important and just not getting ahead of yourself. You know, you're having co have confidence in yourself for sure, you know. Yeah, but ego and confidence is a it is a fine line. I think you fall into the trap of thinking that you know everything or you've made it, you've you've reached this level of like, yeah, I got this, just give me the job, I can I I can do anything. But then you stop yourself from learning further. Yeah. You know, and I think reminding yourself that like there's always more to learn has been that's been pivotal for me. Just getting humbled. But it's it's put me in a in a a headspace where I'm every situation I'm in, you know, alongside just doing the job and and you know, putting in the work and getting it done. I'm also sort of observing myself and and and really trying to take in everything around me and and the feedback from people around me, or just like trying to learn from my peers and and other, you know, directors and filmmakers and staying in a headspace of like the student's mindset. Do you know what I mean? Like that that's something that I've like I've I've only sort of picked up in the last few years. Like I have to constantly be trying to learn something instead of just walking into a into an environment and being like, I got this, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otherwise you just you you won't grow.

Height, Screen vs Stage, And Set Realities

SPEAKER_01 51:39

I had the same experience with the acting aspect at uni because I did a music theater degree. Yeah. My my brain at the time was like, I'm not good at singing, I don't know how to sing, I should learn. This is what I'm here for. Yeah. Dancing, I can dance, but I need to get better. Yeah. And then for acting, it was more like, well, I don't have like a technical understanding. Like no one's ever taught me technique or what everything is called. Yeah. But I've been doing this already for five, six years professionally, so I'm I think I'm pretty good. And then it was the same conflict I had before at Wollengong where I was doing acting stuff that because Stanislavski was great. Picked it up, understood it, yeah, happy to do the exercises. But I was facing a lot of backlash with myself doing exercises I didn't want to do.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Like the ones where you're, you know, I want you to lay in the middle of the room surrounded by everyone and just open yourself up to what you're feeling and scream. Like just, you know, those real like touching a weird subconscious part of your brain. Well, I think it's less that. It's more teaching you to be flexible as a performer and being open to anything as an actor. Like acting's gonna require you to do that.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

How do you how do you go over that sort of stuff now?

SPEAKER_01 52:38

Well, now I I'm open to everything because uh that teacher, that first year or second year, I think he in one of my reports, he said the the best thing that's ever been said to me that opened me up, which was I think you should be open to the things you're most not wanting to do because you might find the most growth there.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Yeah. So I was like, shit, what if I've been holding myself back as an actor because I'm refusing to open up to those things? Yeah. And then in third year was this big transformation for myself as a person being like, you know what? Ego, it's ego. It's just ego at the end of the day. Kill your ego. You are not anything special. Yeah, like make the most of this, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:15

Yes. Well, you kind of lean on the things that you know you're good at to avoid risking showing anyone that you're bad at something else or you still have room to grow on something else, you know.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

For me, it was less that, it was more the fact that this isn't going to me taking the assumption of understanding what was being explained to me and going, this is not gonna benefit me. Oh, okay. Because I think I know better, because I'm a dumb fucking young man. Yeah, I see. Whereas now I'm like, unless I have done it, I'm not gonna know if it benefits me. Like, there's so much stuff we did in acting over those three years I'd never use. Yeah. But then there's plenty of stuff I'm happy to use when I need to. Yeah. Like what we do is basically, like you said, but we've said it a few times, toolbox, right? You learn all these skills so that you have access to them for when you need them. Yeah. You don't have to use everything you learn. You may never have to, but it's better to have that accessible than to have to figure it out and find it later, right? Exactly. Where did you study? Uh, Elder Conservatorium. Yeah. Over now at the joined uh university in SA Adelaide.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

When was that?

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Uh 2022.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

It would have been around when we met, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 54:16

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big believer in uh things, everything happens as it needs to. Yeah, okay. And it was funny because I'd just finished working for Royal Caribbean. Uh you'll like you'll like this, this gig. Yeah. So I was living in the Bahamas on a private island. Dude, how old are you? What am I? 29? 29. You've lived a too many lives. A rich life. Yeah. Uh yep. So private island. Yeah. Uh, and the gig was I played a pirate, and that's the gig, basically. So it was me and this girl, we played pirates who had been stranded on this island, and every day, basically, people would come in on the boats like cruise ships, and then we would put on a show at midday that was like improvised, singing, dancing, comedy, and then like every couple hours we'd be roaming around the island just interacting with people. Like most random gig ever. Dude, that's crazy. How'd you get that? I just auditioned. I was I was in Japan for summer doing uh one of my favorite contracts ever. Uh, and then it came up randomly, and I was like, oh yeah, I could go to the Bahamas for a bit. Why not? I've always wanted to work on a cruise ship.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Dude, that's so sick.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

So random.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

My God.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

But uh when we did that, it was 2019, it was the end of 2019. Right. And then it was I had like I'd auditioned to get into that course. And I was like, you know what? I'll go home and I'll take a break because I've been performing nonstop six years. I haven't been home for more than two months at a time. Take a break, go get better at stuff. If I'm happy after a year, I'll stick around. If I don't, I'll just bounce. Like I just needed a break. And mum and dad were like, come stay with us. We're in Adelaide, like we'll be here. It'll be nice. And I was like, all right, sure, sure, sure. Fly over, and then a week, not even a week later, after I get home, the first cases of COVID on the cruise ships happen.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

And they all go into lockdown. Because I was lined up to go home and then three months later fly back to Japan for another gig.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah.

Ads, Rollovers, And Accidental Fame

SPEAKER_01 56:05

And so I had come home, COVID happened, and we were here being like, this is not gonna affect us. Like, we're in Australia. Yeah, yeah. And then you know what happened after that, then we all went into lockdown. We lost, we lost a couple years, I think, of time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we went into COVID lockdown, and I was like, Oh shit, man, I was that's good timing for me. Because my friends were on the boats and they were stuck at sea for six months at a time, like, couldn't come home, just trapped in the middle of the ocean. And I was like, if that's not the universe being like, yeah, you need to go home and go do this degree. Yeah. The degree was we were the second intake of the degree. Uh, so a bit of teething stuff to like, you know, figure it out kind of thing, especially because it was like university setting as well. So it's like we're not just like, you know, VCA, for example, where it's like that's all arts, like even the creatives do arts, arts, arts, arts. Yeah. We were at the Adelaide University doing uh essentially music degree. Yeah. Like, cause it was just getting brought in, it was just figuring all that sort of stuff out. But since I've been back to visit them, it's beautiful, like really well thought out. A lot of the model learning, like just a lot, full on, but like good. Yeah. Like I look back, go, can I come back for three more years just to try this version of it? Yeah. Like I think it'd be really fun. Yeah, I liked it. It was it again, it took it's annoying it took to that third year to finally get into a good headspace with stuff.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

But that's also just the journey of life. You don't get to pick when you learn or when you mature. Men don't mature. Your frontal cortex doesn't develop as a man until 25. So that makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. But I had 25 and I was like, I'm a new band.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

The those years weren't great. No, no, rough. Yeah. There's also the thing of I came to uni older. Like I didn't come from 18. And I was I was in a this is where I had a bit of points of contention with the people in my course of 18-year-olds with no idea of the world, yeah, trying to tell me about life. Yeah. And me being like, I've literally, I've like, I was literally living in the Bahamas four months ago, working, working what we're studying to do. Yeah. You're trying to tell me about like things, and I was just like, you know what? You're 18. You don't know.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

There's a lot of learning that goes on in your 20s, eh? 18 is so young, man.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

It was rough. And I remember in the I think it was the third year, I kept saying everyone, you'll see what I mean when you do your first contract. Because I kept trying to give advice, unsolicited advice. Again. Again. Men. Men. That's what we do. Ignorant men. Yeah. Um, and like it was, you know, some of it was good, some of it was bad, but like just the sheer like dismissal of stuff. I was like, I'm only telling you this because contextually I've just done this so I know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 58:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

And I would say, when you do your first contract, I'm going to ask, like, ask you again the things that I said at uni, do they make sense now? Or like the way I behaved where I was just over things at some point.

SPEAKER_00 58:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

And I remember meeting up with my friends middle of last year before I went to Japan. And they I was like, they've done their first contracts, and I went, Do you understand why I was the way I was? And they go, Yeah, man, sorry. And I was like, Well, what kind of what kinds of things are you sort of A lot of them had this idea that they would just go to Broadway in like New York? And I was like, Oh nah, man, like you kind of like if you want to go to the America, you have to get either an O1 visa or a sponsorship. They're very complicated. Like, I have a friend that's worked 15 years doing uh touring musicals in like Korea, done theme parks, done cruise ships.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

He got his 01 rejected. Like it's very, very, very meticulous. Like it's a lot to go. Yeah. So I'd say stuff like that, and they'd be like, nah nah, like I recognize it. Yeah, but I it'll be different for me. Yeah. Or like this, like, because they're so devoted to their art form, the lack of being open to other things. So like I'm open to a lot of stuff because I enjoy performing in all of its aspects. Like, I like doing the magic stuff randomly. I like doing a little dance, singing, acting. I like it all. But I also know that when you're a performer, you go where there's work. Like you go and you take every gig you get because it's all opportunity for growth, it's all opportunity for learning. Like, yeah. And a lot of them just wanted to do music theater and nothing else, and like almost kind of sniffed up at the fact that, oh, theme park work. Like, I'm above that, like that kind of mentality. And I was like, it's just this arrogance and ignorance of youth and privilege where you don't you think you're better than that because you've not had the reality of I'm working three jobs at a cafe, at a bar, yeah, at a retail shop to pay rent and just keep auditioning and going to classes at my mid-20s in Melbourne. Like you haven't had that reality. Yeah. So you don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

And now that they're, you know, it's been now, it's been three years, four years since we've done that, and they've all had to experience adulthood. Yeah. They're just kind of like, oh yeah, damn. You were right. And I was like, I just wanted to hear it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

I just wanted to hear it. I just needed to hear it. Can everyone check in with me in four years?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:41

I just need you all to tell me that I was right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Oh yeah. Well, what now, man? You're back, you're back in Adelaide. I haven't seen it. I feel like because I met you in I met you at the Teresa. I I realised today how how often I bring up the Teresa Palmer workshop. It was like pretty much.

Super Fans, Theme Parks & Being “Famous”

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

A lot of people that were on this podcast have been there. Yeah, but yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

You, me, Nick. But I realised like how many people I met there that are still so like so like so a part of my life right now and my acting world. Like that, it was, you know, look how many people we've met. Look how many relationships we have and friendships we have now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

Well, this is all that I think I don't know if we were talking about it on here, but before we this, you just surround yourself with people that make you want to do the thing you love. Like we were all like, we love doing this. Yeah, this is our lives. Um, what's next on the list? Let's see. I've got I'm only here for two more weeks and then I go back to Melbourne. Right. Um, but in those two weeks, I'm doing like open mic comedy and some singing and stuff. This is honestly still a break. I've got a I've destroyed my knee, which is annoying. What'd you do? I've torn my meniscus in like four different places on contract and just haven't had a rest. So see if I've got to get surgery for that. But yeah, no, no solid plan. I've got some stuff in the air, audition-wise, some gigs potentially. I am theatre? Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Theatre stuff. I've got uh a show I'm writing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Oh, are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Yes, that I might have ready for the comedy festival, but it might just be fringe next year, we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:05

Great. What what style? Well, I can tell you about it if you'd like. I would love yeah, if you want to share it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Uh in this lifetime of many things that I've done. Yeah. There was a brief moment when I was a young man where I was a topless waiter.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:18

Yeah. Right. Uh yeah, it saw the whole magic mic lifestyle, so what that was. Nice. Um, and basically I wrote a cabaret uh about my life as it's called Tales of a Topless Waiter. That's amazing. And so it's just stories of the things I've experienced and seen in that line of work. Just put it together with a bit of singing and some dancing and some comedy with the audience and stuff. Because I think it'd be a fun little show for people to look at. Absolutely, man. But yes, show Melbourne might be back here for fringe this year. We'll see. What about you? What's on the uh I'm doing a play in April. Oh yeah. I would like to know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Uh yeah, it was announced on New Year's Day. Um, it's with Famous Last Words Theatre. Oh yes, I did see. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I found out yeah, just a few weeks ago. Congratulations. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm really excited. I haven't done a play in a couple of years. So Australian play? Yeah, it's it's an original written by James Watson, who's the director. Oh yeah. And yeah, I'm just keen to get back on the stage. I think it'll be quite intimate. I think um it's at the Goodwood Institute. Yeah. And not on the main stage. I'm I'm I'm guessing this is I'm guessing this is because the last the last show they did was like quite a small space. Um, and it's only a four-hander, so I'm guessing it'll be quite small and intimate. But it's yeah, it looks like look, I think it'll be a really fun and interesting play. I won't say too much about it because I think it's, you know, I'll let them r reveal the details as they go. But yeah, they announced me and one of the other guys, Angus, the other day. Hell yeah, dude. That's exciting, yeah. And what else? I'm going to the Philippines on Monday. That's exciting. But this episode will come out in February. So I have already been to the Philippines.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

You're so tanned.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

Yeah, yeah. I didn't. I saw no sun. Oh, dude. Yeah. But that that's about it for now, man. I I'm really looking forward to having some time off because I just bro, you have earned the time off. Please enjoy those three. Too much on my plate all the time. So, you know, I'll try to switch off and just lie on the beach for two minutes, then I'm like, oh, we should make some content. Yeah, yeah. But we're going to a friend's wedding, that's why we're going there. But then we're spending 20 days there, so it's gonna be sick. That's a good holiday. Well, thanks for coming unplugged. I really appreciate it. Well, uh, thanks for having me. Plucked. Yeah. Well, this is really good, man. And um dude, yeah, it's really nice to see you, and it's really lovely that you took the time to come here and do the show. Oh, bro, for you? For me. For you for me. I get to see you and we get to talk shit for like a couple hours. I love that. Um, do you want to plug yourself on it on any socials?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Yeah, uh best place is Instagram. So the Sasha Simmich. Uh that's pretty much got everything I do. So if I'm singing and dancing, if I'm doing open mics, just check that out. So that's at the Sasha Simmich. That's the man. The man, the myth, the legend.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Well, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

I don't know. Well, but this is weird.

Learning Under Pressure: Dancing, Stilts, Reps

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

Why are we chosen this way? Do it again. Nice man, that was so good. Man, what a bloody legend. Sasha, thank you so much for coming on. That was really fun, dude. It was very broy, wasn't it? Two dudes with a mic, you know what I mean? Speaking of which, I think he has a podcast. Uh, so I think it's called two two dudes and a mic, and no idea. I don't know. I'll I'll I'll link it. Anyway, give him a follow on Instagram and I'm I'm sure he'll he'll spam you with his podcast. Follow him at the Sasha Simich. That's the Sasha Simich. Also, while you have the app open, give the podcast a follow at GoPluckYourself pod and give me a follow at featuring underscore Chris underscore gun. Yeah, I try to post. Some more serious acting stuff on my Chris Gunn page. And whether you're watching on YouTube or listening on your preferred podcast platform, how's that for alliteration? Make sure you hit subscribe or follow. It's the easiest way to support the show. But hey, if you really want to support the show, you can do that by signing up to the Patreon at patreon.com slash go pluck yourself pod and contributing as little as five dollars a month towards the show. Guys, this thing is entirely listener funded by you. You're the listener. I'm not beholden to any advertisers. This is completely independent. So if this podcast fires you up creatively, please do me a favor and type that link into your browser to become a patron. That's patreon.com slash go pluck yourself pod. And just remember, guys, if you're on an iPhone, don't use the Patreon app because Apple, they're dirty bastards, and they'll take 30% of your contribution just for using this stupid app. But you can avoid that by signing up through a web browser like Chrome or Safari or whatever. Then you can do that on your phone or on your laptop. And thank you to everyone that's already become a member. I love you all. Alright, theme music by my amazing cousin Nick Gunn. Check out his work on SoundCloud, soundcloud.com slash Nick Gunn. Uh he's amazing. Thanks for listening, guys. I'll see you in a fortnight, I guess. My name is Chris Gunn, and hey, go pluck yourself.