Ep 18 Brad McCarthy: What Actors Should Do When The Work Dries Up

Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/c/GoPluckYourselfPod 

🎧 Listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
 ▶️ Watch on YouTube: youtube.com/@gopluckyourselfpod

GET TICKETS TO MY NEXT PLAY ‘THE HOUSEWARMING’ HERE: https://events.humanitix.com/the-housewarming-flw 

 Follow me on Instagram & TikTok:
 @featuring_chris_gun
 @gopluckyourselfpod
 
 My IMDb: https://m.imdb.com/name/nm8690472/ 

Follow Brad on Instagram:

@brad__mccarthy

Brad’s IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9744714/

Waiting for the industry to tap you on the shoulder can quietly wreck your confidence, your health, and your creativity. I’m joined by actor and producer Brad McCarthy for a laid-back but brutally useful chat about what actually moves an acting career forward when the work feels thin and the “rules” keep changing across the Australian film and theatre scene.

We get into Brad’s producing path and the momentum behind Penrose, a supernatural horror project inspired by modern genre hits and powered by young filmmakers who refuse to wait until someone says they’re ready. We talk indie filmmaking as career insurance, why staying connected matters more than perfect timing, and how a single relationship or Instagram touchpoint can circle back years later with real work attached.

Then we go practical: the self-tape audition grind, why endless takes can become self-punishment, and how setting a timer, doing smart prep, and building a repeatable setup can make auditions feel creative again. We also unpack headshots, demo reels, risk-taking on set, and the awkward reality of lowball commercial casting that tries to dodge agents and fair rates.

If you’re an actor trying to find balance between hustle and rest, or a filmmaker building work from the ground up, this one will hit home. Subscribe, share it with an actor mate, and leave a review so more Aussie creatives can find the show.

Available to watch on YouTube or listen on all podcast platforms

Transcript

Life Updates And New Projects

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Brad McCarthy and you should go pluck yourself.

Watching Yourself Without Spiralling

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hello and welcome to Go Pluck Yourself, The Actor's Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. What's been going on guys? How are we doing? Are we busy doing the things that we love? What's coming up? I'm starting rehearsals for a new play at the start of April. It's called The Housewarming. It's written and directed by James Watson, and it's starring some very cool friends. Virginia Blackwell, who's been on the show, Amelia Williams, and we've just added the wonderful Daniel Fryer Calabaro to the cast. It's a really lovely, relevant little story. You're gonna love it, guys. So come on down to the Goodwood Institute at the end of April. Tickets are on sale. I'll put the link in the description below. What else has been happening? I've been busy shooting a very cool little horror film. Well actually it's a it's a feature film by these very talented and very ambitious young filmmakers, Miles McEwen and Ripley Stevens. And man, these guys are like insane. They're 22, they're already on their third feature film, and they're gonna be making another film at the end of the year, which I'll be in as well. Um and yeah, I'm having a great time working with these guys. They're super creative, very collaborative. They just get it done, you know? They're just like the perfect example. You know when we say like just go out and make a film? Like they're the perfect example of that. They're not waiting to be ready or old enough or whatever, they just go out and and get shit done, which is really cool. Like we shot the majority of this horror film over like a week, and I've seen the footage and it looks unreal. Like, it's awesome, you know, and real run and gun filmmaking. It's yeah, very cool. Um, keep an eye out for those guys, Miles McEwen and Ripley Stevens, shout out, uh, really exciting stuff. But oh my god, so much has been happening. I've got an audition to shoot today um or tomorrow, whenever I have the time to do it. I'm letting lines for the play so that I can be off book by the start of April. Uh I finally updated my acting reel, which was way overdue. Uh, so this is your reminder to go and update your demo reel or your show reel, whatever you call it. Do it now, guys. Uh on top of all that, I've changed agencies. Yeah, bombshell, I know. That's right, I'm now represented by the wonderful Wendy Takeo from TKO Management. I'm very excited to be working with her. So, yeah, I've been updating all my platforms like Casting Networks and Showcast and Altai and I don't know, what is it, casting.com, all that stuff. It's been a lot. But it's great. These are all great things. You know, this is the reality of life as a working actor. It's a lot of admin, it's a lot of alone time, um, it's a lot of time sitting at your laptop just editing footage of yourself and writing about yourself and updating, yeah. It's yeah, it's a lot. Am I pushing myself too hard? Yep. I've given myself another lung infection. Uh I've been I think I've done like 17 or 18 episodes of this podcast, and this is my second lung infection for the podcast. So is that a sign that I'm burning the candle at both ends? Yes. Um, if there's any lesson in this, I guess it's um, you know, know when to slow down and find some time to rest your mind and your body. We have a real tendency to hustle and you know, look. I mean, obviously the social media stuff is working and working well, um, which is amazing. I'm very grateful for, and the opportunities are revealing themselves, which is so cool. And I'm not complaining, I'm just sharing my experience, you know. And I'm I'm still trying to find the balance between doing the things that fulfill me creatively and giving myself the time to rest. Uh, and I'm I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that. And right now, obviously, my body is telling me to rest. But do you think I will? Probably not. I'll try this weekend. I'm gonna get some rest this weekend. Anyway, today on the show I have a very old friend of mine, someone that I've known for many, many years now, um, but who I really only became close with just in the last year or so. It's Brad McCarthy. Brad is an actor and producer. He's actually producing Penrose, which is the film that I'm doing at the end of the year with Marzon Ripley, and he'll be acting in that one as well. But again, he's one of those actors who is choosing not to rest on his laurels, you know. He's he's out there making connections and finding projects to get involved with, and it's really good to see. Brad lives and works in Melbourne. He made the jump from Adelaide a few years ago. Uh, we actually used to be represented by my old agency, uh, the one that I had two days ago, um, which is actually how we met. And for some reason we were always just kind of hovering around each other from a safe distance, but never really gave each other the chance to connect. But just recently I went over to Melbourne to shoot uh that Puopalo commercial that I've I'm banging on about, and he just so happened to be working as an extra on that set, so that's where we really connected again properly. It was really really cool to see him there. And look at us now. We'll be working together at the end of the year on this Penrose film. Um, so what a happy little story that is. Anyway, I've waffled on again. Um, enjoy this chat. It's very laid back and maybe a little bit sleepy at times, but uh that's because we're just a couple of bros hanging out, shooting the shit, just sharing some of our thoughts on this crazy, crazy industry. Now I haven't mentioned this in a little while, guys, but please take lightly any thoughts or opinions that are expressed in this podcast. All of my guests bring value to the discussions, but we really are just figuring it out as we go. Anything that sounds like advice should always be taken with a pinch of salt. You know, what works for one actor doesn't necessarily work for another, so please interrogate any ideas that come up on this show, as you should with anything that you hear on the internet. Okay, guys, if you haven't subscribed yet, do that right now. If you're listening on a podcast player, hit follow, engage with all the socials, leave comments, send me a message. I want to hear from all of y'all. Now please enjoy my delightful little chat with the remarkable Brad McCarthy. Well, edited something that you that you did from a workshop.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah. Oh, the one with Matt, with Matt Rice. Yeah, that one I see that one. That was funny.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

That was such a good scene.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Oh, I thought he did fantastic. Every time I see it, I hate myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Oh, do you? Yeah, I'm not gonna think it sounds so off base. No. No, dude. Yeah, no, that's all in your head. You were great. I'm horrible at watching myself. Me too. Me too. Yeah. No, I really don't enjoy it. Is there anything you like watching that you've done? Because I've got projects that I'm like really proud of. Yeah, that was good.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Yeah, I'm proud of the projects I'm in. But you can't watch them. But I just, I'm so yeah, I'm very self-critical. I think for me it's it's definitely a sense of I think I think it's a healthy thing. I think whenever I watch myself and stuff, I think, whoa, like I feel like now I could do so much better than what I did. Because usually by the time usually by the time it's edited and out for public consumption, it's like, you know, almost a year later.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Yeah, and I'm like, I've improved so much since then. Yeah, I think that's why I haven't updated my show for so long. I know. Because I like the the projects are only just coming out, and I'm like, uh, but that's not what I do now. Not really now. That's not my thing anymore.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, but then you get caught in that vicious trap of that I've just never updated 12 years ago. Yeah, yeah. That stuff was good. I've been so slacked with my headshot, actually. I've just I've had the same headshot for like three years now. So it's like passable, but it's definitely getting to the point where the thing is you're not aging, I really like it. Um, like I like my headshot. Yeah, yeah. Which is why I guess like I want to stick around, but it's also just like, yeah, I'm I'm it's like I probably should update it.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

You should be updating something like that a little bit. It's so vain in that sense. Like, I'm I I've avoided updating my headshot because I'm like, oh, I'm just like I'm not fully formed.

unknown 7:40

You know?

Penrose And Indie Horror Ambition

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Like I just want to get a little bit more trim and then I'll take some photos. Wait till the beards at a slight exact point or the beard is is because I've been on holiday and I just like I didn't I didn't you've been rocking the the full beard for a while now, haven't you? Well, I did about two years ago. I had a full beard because we were shooting this film and I decided the guy has a beard. Yep, but the film took a long time to to finish and so I had this massive beard for so long. Yeah. Anyway, tell us about Penrose then.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yeah, sure. So it's uh um supernatural horror. Yep. Um, so in the vein of you know conjuring insidious, that kind of that kind of beat. Two really talented young directors, Miles McHugh and Ripley Stevens. I'm sure a lot of your viewers probably would have heard of them. Um local essay guys um specializing in supernatural horror stuff. So they did a they did a film called Nightfall, a paranormal investigation a few years ago, um, which did so well. Like they really, really killed it. Um I helped them produce it. Yes, um, and yeah, it really just made some waves. They they uh got picked up by a distributor called Black Mandala um out of New Zealand, and then it just kind of did the the festival circuits, did yeah really, really well for itself. Um, like the reviews were crazy. A lot of people were just super impressed with it as an indie horror film. Yeah, um yeah, they they reached out to me, he just reached out to me. We'd never really spoken or worked together or had any kind of prior connections, and he just kind of reached out to me and said, you know, we're looking for a producer to help us with this um application we're putting through for essay film.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Wait, had you produced before?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

I mean, yes, but for like short film stuff, I mean it's a very different, very different ball game. I've done a few with them primarily, I've done a few feature films now. I feel I feel like because short films are such uh usually um when you do them, because obviously they're they're a lot smaller, um, the budgets usually aren't as big. It's more of a joint effort. Yeah. Even if you're not credited as a producer on a short film, chances are you did some producer-like stuff.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Um, whether or not you helped, you know, um cast it, whether or not you helped with the script, with the story, whether or not you helped location scale, like all these kind of things. Like it's just it's you know, someone gets the official title, obviously, because you want to. Yeah, but everyone's checked. Everyone's kind of cheered. Yeah, 100%. So it's like, yeah, but until then, not really in the respect that that was kind of intended. But since then I've done a lot of it with them. Yeah. It's been really, really good, like really eye-opening and stuff. I've learned so much from doing it with them.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, it's really promising filmmakers. Like these, how old are these guys? They're really young, eh?

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, they're like early 20s, like 20, I want to say 23, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Um super young. And and like Nightfall, it looks so good.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

What these guys can do with like virtually nothing is insane. Yeah, like you know, I mean, a lot of people came out of that screening and they like thought that there was a production value of like a million dollars. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, just super, super talented guys. Um, it's like Jack of all trades, you know, they can just do everything. Yeah, like they edit sound, cinematography, they both act, they were the lead actors in High Fall as well. Yeah, but yeah, just like multi-talented dudes.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

They can just kind of get I think when you have it when you have a good understanding of all the different sort of um departments that it just it just means that you're gonna make better work, you know. You have you're kind of editing in your mind as you're shooting something.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, they always have um because of that mind as well, it's always funny. I'm I I probably obviously I'm an I'm definitely an actor first and foremost, but secondary to that, I'd say writing was my thing. And so for me, script is like insanely important. Yeah, like it's like it's I I think it's like the for me, my interpretation of like if the script is really good, yeah, everything else kind of falls into place. With them, they're absolutely sure. Yeah, but with them because they're so multifaceted, and as you said, editing on the go, yeah, like they have a completely different philosophy. Like Miles is like a lot of you know, he he even said for nightful, like a lot of the stuff when they did it, he was like, We just kind of didn't really even have a finished script and just started shooting and just really just have like some of the they obviously had one, yeah, but for them it's a lot less of a holy grail, yeah. Like for them, it's more so like, yeah, I'll change it on the day, just based on what I'm feeling or how they're doing it, or how they think they're gonna edit it. I think that's okay though. Oh, it's fine, yeah. Yeah, it's with that's something it's really good working with them that way because it's just like different three people, you know. We agree we we all have such a passion for the source material and like how we want to do it, where we want to do it, the actors we want to work with. Yeah, but then just really good competing.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Yeah, different sort of angles of how you approach things. Yeah, I love that you're being so proactive with like making work for yourself and producing stuff. It's so good, so good to see.

The End Of Waiting To Be Picked

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Oh, it's you got you've got to do it these days. You just have to, because to a certain point where you're like, you just gotta force yourself into a narrative or else people just won't you gotta go fuck yourself. You do, you do, you do.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

It's interesting because I I feel like we're all kind of in this weird um limbo waiting. And I was talking like Eric Thompson came in recently, and uh his episode's coming out soon. It'll be out already by the time this is. By the time you have it. But it was interesting talking to him because he he's had this amazing career in TV and film in in Australia over like 30 years, right? And even he's feeling this, it seemed like he was feeling this kind of existential, like, what now? Like, where is the industry? Like, and it it seems that everyone feels like they're back at square one. Yeah, which kind of in a way puts us on on an even playing field in a sense where we don't really understand what the what the game is anymore. Yeah, and I I think waiting for stuff to happen is sort of gone. Well, at least for now, like waiting to to have you know to be plucked, you know, waiting for your name to be called. It's so if it was like unlikely before, it's even it's way less likely now.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

You're absolutely right. So many people, particularly it seems like at the coming of the start of this year, yeah, that kind of idea seemed to just seep its way into because everyone I'm talking to feels the exact same way. They're like it has it, this is a different vibe going into 2026 industry than there was in 2025.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, and and all this stuff that we're doing, like all the stuff we're making, do you do you stop and think about like what am I expecting out of this?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah, yeah, because when you make these things, like for example, when you make something like we're doing with Penrose and Eclipse and all those ones afterwards, it's like you you kind of you the only thing that you can really uh go into it with the mindset of like what you just have to assume that it's gonna be big, or else if you don't if because if you don't go into it with that mindset, then you're kind of like it's like why are we doing it?

SPEAKER_01 14:06

You know, well I think the fact that even just making something is such an achievement in itself, yeah. And like that should be celebrated every single time. Of course. But also, like you know, Eric also reminded me, and it's also something I think it's really important to to keep reminding ourselves, is just keep making art. That's that's the reason why we're making we have to come, we have to keep taking ourselves back to that. We have to keep coming back to the reason why we are doing why we enjoy this in the first place, and that is the expression and the the art itself. That's what we're we have to keep you know focusing on. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

I'd say similar ideas, like obviously with the making stuff, but I've always found as well it's about um you you need to always be surrounding yourself with it. I find, you know, I feel like it's really easy in this industry to let all the no's and the rejection and stuff just get you, you know, get you into this headspace where you're just so frustrated and upset, yeah, and makes you really jaded.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

It does, yeah, it can be.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Um and I feel like as a result of that, you you do the opposite of what you should do, of you just like throw your toys out of the cot and you refuse to engage with any of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Whereas like I always feel a million times better when I like go to the movies, yeah. And just like watch a movie. And then when I'm walking out, even if I went in there with this mindset of like, oh, like, you know, the audition I thought I was gonna get was a no, and you just like you know, just so annoyed and like jaded, and you're just like, oh, it's never gonna, you know, you every actor goes through it, and then you walk out of the scenario and you're like, ah, now I feel good again. Yeah, like feel inspired, go home, start writing something, start doing something.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, well, that's it. And I feel like, especially with the last few episodes of this, I've noticed my conversations, it's been very career-based in like but also because I've been talking to like you know, established, really well-known actors that I I kind of want to pick their brain about their career. Yeah, but the fact that like I've been so focused on that and thinking about that lately, I've realized that like I've I've been neglecting sort of the artist, you know what I mean? Yeah, like as you were saying, like you start to become really jaded, or um, you know, you can you can go down the wrong pathway of like really thinking about or hyper focusing on like I'm not getting enough gigs. That's because there aren't gigs. There's just nothing happening. That's not a reflection of your you know, of of your career and or your skills. It's just no one's getting a lot of gigs, you know. But you can get really really focused on that and then you can kind of get obsessed with like, okay, what can I do to you know excel my career? There's not a lot you can do, you know. So much of it is out of your control. Yeah, but I can't lose the fact that I'm an actor. I'm always an artist, you know, and I have control over so much of what that means, you know. I can like you're doing, go and get proactive and make something or hit up some some filmmakers that you think are really talented that you want to work with and say, I'll produce your film and then and but I also want to act in it, you know. Like that's where you have control.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah, you just the bait and switch. I can do all this, and also by the way, I want that role.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

There's a caveat, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like you you'll never lose the fact that you're an artist. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Completely. No matter how many rejections you get, you're always and and even if you go through lulls or or you kind of lose touch with your craft a little bit for for sort of episodes, you'll always be that same artist.

Why Brad Became An Actor

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, yeah, there was a version of you before all that happened, and yes, and it's you to the same version after.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, like because like what why did you start doing this?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

I did to be completely honest, it was one of those um how did I not see it sooner kind of things. Like my family's really um like we're one of those families where we, you know, we'll just communicate entirely in movie quotes, yeah or like loved kind of all these other kind of art forms. I used to draw a lot. Oh, did you? Um yeah, like he used to like anime and like manga, I used to draw like manga and stuff. Oh, so we're doing like artistic stuff, yeah. Um, and then just kind of like when I was about 16, it's like year 10 was like the light bulb moment. I started doing drama classes in year nine. Yeah. And then going into senior school, it was like, do you want to do drama or not? And I was like, Yeah, I want to fucking do drama. Yeah. Um, and then that just kind of was like, I love this. Yeah. And so I started doing the the classic actors inc. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And then I did a um couple fringe shows. Oh really? Uh Tinder Surprise, it was, yeah. Still to this day, one of my favorite things I've ever done. Really? I really enjoyed doing that show. What was it? It was a um comedy at the Goodwood Institute. And yeah, it was just about two single people looking for love and then just the hilarious Tinder dates they would go on until eventually they matched themselves and yeah, get together. But it was so much fun. Yeah. It's like I really, really have super fond memories of doing that. And then yeah, moved to Melbourne and just haven't really done theatre as much.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Have done one theatre show since moving to Melbourne, which was awesome, but I just don't like it's just not something that's as readily available there.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Um, and they have such really good high-quality theatre, yeah, that if you're not strictly a theatre actor, it's a lot harder to Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

You know, is there a bit of a identity issue with that in Melbourne, do you think? Because because I remember I don't think it's a thing here now, but like for a long time, I remember hearing a lot of people like saying, like, are you theatre or film? Which does never made any sense to me. Yeah. To me, it's you have to do theatre to learn that that's where you learn how to act, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Well, yeah, I mean, I I was pretty much exclusively theatre for years here before. But yeah, no, I completely agree. I'd like it's not from lack of wanting to. Yeah. I would love to do more theatre now.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

I feel like it's a it's hard to get into. Like, I think it's a theatre seems a lot more gatekeep than film.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, I think so. I think I think it's definitely a lot more um like you could uh realistically walk in off the street and audition for like a really high profile feature film, yeah, having not really acted much, and maybe you'd get it.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

I feel like that's a lot less likely with like really high profile theatre.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

But that's also because like the the rigour involved with theatre. Yeah, exactly. So the actual workload is intense, you know.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And in that regard, I kind of understand in that way. It's not just like a you know, people go to school for years to learn these, yeah, to learn the skills for theatre, and so it's like just walking off the street and thinking you can do it. I can understand that it's like it's just not how it works. No, particularly if you're doing, you know, like proper professional theatre like um MTC and all that stuff. Yeah, no, I'd love to. Is that a goal for this year?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

You got a lot going on though.

Theatre Rigor Versus Film Freedom

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Yeah, I mean that will I mean, and that's the other thing about theatre as well. It's like it's a huge time commitment. Yeah. And for if you're doing amateur theatre, it's a huge time commitment on that.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Yeah, if there's like three months of rehearsals, which is insane. Yeah. The show I'm doing is not three months.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

It always stresses me out when the the rehearsal periods aren't long enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, but I haven't had that experience yet, so I'm intrigued what that pressure will do. It just means you have to do more work beforehand. Yeah, but it's yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I don't really like rehearsing film like that. I'm not really a fan of going through and just like back to back to back scene work on stuff that I'm gonna do if it's film-related. Why is that? I don't know. I think it's just more of an on-the-day thing. Yeah, like I just feel like it's a lot of the time you can rehearse it's because I just don't think the scenarios are gonna be exactly the same every time. Whereas like I think the whole point, the whole point of theater is that when we rehearse it, it's this is the way it's going to be.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

You reckon?

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Like when you've got like the stage and like you, you know, the beats that you're hitting, yeah. I feel like that's really important to knuckle down every single time. Yeah, because if you get something wrong, you can't, there's no fixing it in the moment unless everybody's on their game and fixing it properly. Whereas like I feel like with film, it's like there is a lot more room to play in that respect. And that's actually more so something I've been trying to learn to do more recently. I think I wasn't playing anywhere near enough.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, right. Yeah. Like I would just kind of rock up, promise myself I was gonna really go outside my comfort zone, try a few takes that would just be like it's hard to know, and I think that's why doing sort of lower stakes projects are really important because it it's An opportunity to actually take a risk, and like on some of the bigger films I've done, those are the films where I'm like, I'm too scared too scared to have a go here. Yeah, you know, but those are the things that afterwards I'm like, fuck, why didn't I like if I had known what this film was, you know, I there was you know, I could have really just been there and so much more informed on the kind of yeah, character choice I would have made. Yeah, and also I think they they would have wanted that, they would have wanted me to tell you.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, what are you doing, mate?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah, no, I was but also like so concerned with like continuity and stuff. I'm like, well, if I if I do something here, like is that gonna fuck ever all this other stuff up? You know, and then they're gonna be like, mate, can you just do your thing and do that in here? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

No, it was a it was a story I I can't remember which who who it was, but they were talking about Vince Vaughan, yeah, and they were just saying how he is just apparently the perfect example of someone who is just like he will just try everything, and it's like just zero, zero care. Like he's just doesn't he the embarrassment factor for him or just like that just doesn't exist. Yeah, you know, he can just try something completely off the cuff and just miss the mark entirely, not funny at all, uh even if it's specifically comedy related, like she'll be like people might not laugh, the director will be like, I hated that or whatever, like and he would just be like, All right, fair enough, try it straight back into another one, didn't really care. But like, and nothing would quell that. He would just continue to push the envelope until eventually something stuck. That's great though.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Um, and so that's the point, isn't it? That's yeah, 100%. That's the discovery, right? Yeah. If you have the time, and like if you if you actually are given if the environment and the the sort of the production actually allows that time for that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

So I think it's really important that from the production angle you do that. Yeah. I think I think a lot of a lot of sets, a lot of the times it's you can tell the ones that are allowing that cultivated process.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah.

Taking Risks And Director Trust

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Um sometimes it's not an intentional thing. I just think sometimes it can be um like overlooked or you don't like Well sometimes you just gotta get on with the job though. Oh no, yeah, yeah, hundred obviously like not in that. But as in as in like a cultivating an environment where the actor feels like if I do try something, it's not gonna be met with Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah, yeah. Oh mate, have you had that? Well, no, but that but I think maybe I haven't pushed the envelope enough in like not that I'm it'll be confirmed. Not that I'm now I know that I'm I'm pushing the envelope now. People are telling me, what are you doing? What are you doing now? I don't think I'd ever want to want to get to that point, but I do think it's I do think it would be nice to it would be a good indication to me that um, you know, I'm I am trying.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Do you fall do you find you fall back on safety, you know, like safety mode? Because I I feel like I've done it. I feel so guilty of that. Like, you'll do, right? Like yeah, you just you just I feel like this is my acting, this is my version of acting when I'm acting very safe safely. Yeah, it's all the same shit, or I just end up yelling. So much easier said than done. Yeah. How do you have that conversation with the director? Like, how do we curate a working environment, a creative environment that's going to get the best out of me and still be um flexible for to sort of you know fit your image, you know? How do you have that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 25:17

I feel like I feel like it's not uh a one size fits all conversation. I feel like that's that's something that happens over the course of being cast in something to the time you're actually shooting. Yeah. I think that's something that happens as a result of having just constant communication with the the team you're working with and to obviously again, easier said than done, depends on the the scale of the role you've got. Obviously, if you're it's it's different if you're the lead in something and you're obviously talking with the directors and a lot uh of like how it's gonna work, or but if you're just like, you know, especially for something like if you're on a really big production, like when you were on um, you know, doing the better man better man stuff, it's like obviously you've just got to rock in there and just like which you did. Just do your job, absolutely nailed it. You just do your job. Um mate, dude. But I didn't have to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

I just had to sit there with the guitar, yeah, throw a line at the end. Yeah, but like there was so much to that. Like the line was the risk, that that one line was the risk that I was like, I gotta do something here.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah, but that's that's the thing, it's like you took the risk and paid off. I I loved when he gave you that call out in that interview. That was incredible. He was just like the guy that played, he was like, Oh, he was incredible, that was so null.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

I'm like, what are you talking about? To me, it's like I didn't do anything, but whatever. But maybe that's the point. Yeah, I'd done a lot of work leading up to that. That's why I think.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah, anyway. Yeah, I just did the homework. Yeah, for my did the script analysis, went down. Oh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Watched a whole lot of it was uh it was an enjoyable process. I just watched a whole lot of Oasis interviews.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, I think that I guess that is also the difference between just doing indie stuff and yeah, the bigger stuff is like smaller the project, the more um tight-knit the team can afford to be.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

But it's also like you said before, like you know, everyone's kind of a producer. Yeah, there's like a main producer, but also everyone's sharing the load. So even the creative, you know, acting work is um well, the analysis work is kind of it's that's all a team effort as well. It's open. When the stakes are smaller, yeah, or when the group is smaller, when the production is smaller.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

It's like and that's and that's also just the something as a director or as a whatever you know leadership role you have on these smaller, you know, indie productions, yeah. Is particularly if it's like, you know, you know, it's like a joint share thing where like we're not actually getting paid up front or something like that. It's kind of like you have to be open to giving people a voice in those scenarios. It's like we're all here devoting our time, and I I don't think it's a right, you know, to to have people in this like tight-knit creative environment that are like you're sacrificing a lot of their time and putting a lot of hard work for you, yeah. And you share your opinion and you go, I don't shut up. Yeah, don't want your opinion. And it's like, well, yeah, what am I doing here? Yeah, what are we yeah, what am I doing here then? Yeah. You don't care about what I think about it. Why am I here working for you? Yeah, you know. So that's yeah, that's kind of something I'm trying to work on.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

That's good. I think I think we're while we're in this limbo, we have to take advantage of this limbo. I don't know if that's the right word. But while we're in this, what feels like limbo. I think limbo is yeah, it's a perfect word for it. Which kind of but the reason I say it doesn't feel right is because what was there before. I don't know, we didn't really have careers before.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

We all just kind of started out in this thing. But that's also what's so weird about this industry is you get people that there are people that you work with that are so talented that are capable of working on the world stage. Yeah. But that's just the way it works. Like sometimes it just you just might not get there. And it's not because you're not good enough, just the industry's tough.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

So yeah, it's like even if I'm not technically you know you you don't have a career, like you were saying, it's like, but I didn't have a career beforehand, but it's like, but that doesn't mean that you're not of the standard. Yeah. Um, which I think is also a really important thing to remember. It's not like when you are, you know, if you if you were to audition for a role and something super big, then book it. It's not that because you booked it, you're now ready for the role. Yeah, yeah. You were obviously good enough for that project, which is why you booked it. Yeah. So before you even had the audition, you were obviously of the standard.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Um, which is the way I think that's a way better way of looking at it. Yeah, is there anything else you got going on apart from the um the thanks, man.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

I love that. I love it when you like my guest carries the interview. It's so so good. When I'm just like, oh fuck, Alal, what do we do? Yeah. Uh what else is going on?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

No, I'm doing this theatre show in in April, and it's kind of nice to just have that to focus on. Yeah, dude. Especially with theatre, man. It's so so all-encompassing. It's like it takes a lot. I'm so excited though. Really different. I haven't done it for like two years. Where are you? Where's the where are they putting it on? Which which theatre? At Goodwood Institute.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Oh, Goodwood Institute as well. But no, what about you, man? You've been shooting heaps and heaps in Melbourne. What's this high school thing you've been doing?

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Uh yeah, it's called Flunk. Um, yeah, it's like a high school web series. Um what how old is your character? Uh I'd rather not say. No, I'm uh it's uh he's supposed to be like 18. Yeah. Um, they're like the final year of school kind of thing. So hopefully I don't just look like that weird almost 30-year-old guy in a school uniform and pretending to be. I don't think every tea drama they look like that, right? Like yeah, yeah, like gossip girl and stuff. Yeah, you're obviously not 17. So just this V OC and pass. Yeah. Yeah, the the creative team behind that wanted to want to go into some other ventures.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

So how'd you who's behind that? Like, how'd you find that?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Uh so it's just uh it's uh the people who run it, um, guy by the name of Rick and his wife Mel. Um they used to work on neighbours.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Um, and then just they've always had a you know, an interest in teen drama stuff. Like they love the OC and everything. And so just worked on yeah, neighbours for a few for for years and um branched off, started their own thing. Yeah, nice. Got some funding through Vic Screen and stuff. So yeah, I mean it's it's also very like, I mean, I've I've never been on on neighbours, but you always hear about neighbours how it's like everything's super fast, yeah, super quick. Like they it's like so it's like they're obviously from that world. So everything's like they're super um like efficient, everything's done very quick, um, but still to a high standard, like quite as great. Yeah, no, that's that's could probably gonna wrap up, I think probably earlier this year. You can't play 18 anymore. No, I think unfortunately not with that mustache, I think unfortunately, yeah. Well that's what I have. I keep trying to grow it. Yeah, no. So it's still three weeks to grow. Literally in between. Um unfortunately I'm gonna ha have to hang up the teen boots. Yeah, yeah. I'm so excited to do Penrose, man.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I just want to I just want to get my hands into a like a proper project, you know. Yeah. Have you cast anyone else? Can you announce anyone else?

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Uh we're like pretty strong set on who the main cast will be, but we can't strictly announce. Yeah, fair enough. So it'll be me and you is who we know. Well, that's the main thing, isn't it? That's the main thing. I mean that also, by the way, that's the importance of um of keeping contact with people in this industry, because you don't realise like, oh, people reach out to you and then you kind of fall out of contact. Yeah. But it can come back to to reward you, definitely. Like, like I said, Miles, when he reached out to me initially, didn't really don't know why. He later said for some reason that he was just in a cafe one day writing and scrolled Instagram and saw me and then just kind of made a note about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Really?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah. Um that's wild, eh? And then he messaged me about that. We didn't we didn't quite we just didn't get through on that application we did.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

We were like, well, we tried. Um, and then just kind of fell out of contact for a set for a bit. And then he, after Nightfall did so well, they messaged me and they were like, Oh, you got any other ideas we might be able to work on together? And then I was like, Yeah, actually, I was just one concept for a supernatural horror. I know that's something you guys do. And then he sent it off to the distributor, and the distributor was like, Love it. That's amazing, man. And it's like, if you didn't keep that contact, it would have been wouldn't have happened. You just never know, eh? You never know, you have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

And even just like social media is a whole thing, you know. I I don't I don't think everyone needs to be like really pushing their social media, like that's an an essential part of the part of the job, but it does help. But like even just like staying a little bit relevant or just just updating people, like I'm still here, I'm still here, you know.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

It's it's at a bare minimum. It's the it's I know I'm not I know I'm not alone in this, but it's the one thing that I really just struggle to Yeah, it's it sucks. Really struggle to care about that whole thing. Yeah, like I really should be more proactive, I guess, in the industry we're in, but I just it's don't beat yourself up over that.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

The last thing I want to do is make it pro obviously proactive and other really important things that are also gonna, you know, you're still you're making stuff, yeah, and you're maintaining connections and always meeting new people. And that's honestly like I mean, even doing this, like the the audience is very small so far. Hopefully, it grows a little bit, but the audience is so small, but the audience is it it's so local, yeah. Like it's uh it really matters, yeah, because people hear it, people watch it. Well, the only people that I need to be in contact with right now are people within this industry in Adelaide, and you know, with a few arms out interstate, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Um, but what I mean, what's been really cool about this podcast that I've loved is like obviously coming from such a small community in Adelaide, there's so many people that you hear of so often that you feel like you know them even though you've never even met them. Yeah. Um, and it's really nice to watch an episode with them, yeah. So that you're kind of like, finally, I can get like an actual deep dive into the person. Isn't it great? Yeah, like I don't like that happened with Connor. Like I was just like hearing about him everywhere, yeah. Um and just like kind of watching him, just like following his work because I I left uh to Melbourne, and then I think that's when they must have graduated Flinders or whatever like that, because he went, he did Flinders right now. Yeah, um, and so then he kind of just like him and a bunch of other you know local actors kind of just burst onto the scene and say such great work, and I kept seeing it, hearing about it, and being like, I feel like I know these people, but like I don't know them. Yeah, it's like because whenever you it's kind of parasocial relationship. Yeah, yeah. Whenever you upload an episode with one of those kind of people, I'm like, fine, I'm gonna do it and look into it.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, but it's also a great reason for me to like selfishly, a really good way for me to meet people and get to know them when I didn't have a reason to like like why would they want to talk to me before that, you know? Why would they want to talk to me? Well, I know, which is bullshit, but like you know, it's just it's how you feel, hey, yeah, it's why you don't reach out to people because you're like, well, what have I got to say? Yeah, they sound an excuse.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

It's very nice to know that everyone's feeling similar.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Well, it's it's been so good, man, and people have the reaction has been like amazing within this industry here. Like it's yeah, I mean you've had some huge guests on.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

It's crazy. It's weird. Some of the like some of those people you would have assumed it would have taken like a couple years to build up to having someone like that on there. Yeah. Um it's a bit surreal, man.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

But it's awesome. Yeah. Like, I think it's so great. But also, they're all just people. Yeah. You know, and they're all just like they're in the same game as we are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Um like you, like you were saying before, about they've been in there 30 years, but still don't really know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Yeah, yeah. Like they'll they'll have the same insecurities and problems in their head as as we do, but they've got this, you know, they might have more resources or they might have um, you know, a a bigger network, or uh obviously, you know, more skills behind them and more experience behind them. But at the core, they're all just people, right? And I think that's been really helpful for me to just not put people on a pedestal and just it it help it helps me approach them and say, look, I just want to chat and like pick your brain as as a peer, you know.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Which yeah, I think that's like you said, it's like they've got obviously got so much more experience.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

And they've learned a lot more lessons that you can now subsequently learn from. Yeah. But it's like if you were to get on set with them, you'd be able to act with them.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah. Well, that's right. You know, because you're not you're not revering them to the point where they're inaccessible, you know. Well, you you can, like it's it's great to look after people, but but you have to get past that that step and and go, yeah, all right. Now we're now we're peers, now we now we can actually work together.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

I feel like you can't go on you can't go into a project thinking you're not worth the project. No, you can't control the fact that you're not familiar with a setting like this. That's no, that's right. That's the point. Yeah. I've never been on a set this big, therefore, it's normal to feel like it's not familiar. Yeah, yeah. But the acting is I've acted. Yeah. So that's that's not the part that I'm I'm not familiar with. Like that's not the part that I'm that I'm nervous about, or like be like you can be nervous about it, but it's like it's not the part that I think, like, oh, I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Yeah. How do you sort of psych yourself into that headspace where you you know, if you're in a new setting where you're a bit like, you know, there's some overwhelming feelings, you're a bit nervous or something, but you have to get bring yourself back to what you do. How do you psych yourself back into that that headspace?

SPEAKER_00 38:02

I think it's just if I if I feel like I've done no kind of like I just haven't researched anything or like I haven't looked up anything or haven't kind of done any kind of preparation, that's when I would start to feel like Yeah, I probably should have done that.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, if you neglect that, it it it does it does show. Well no, it might not show in the work in the end if you can get away with it, but you can feel it and it it makes such a big difference, like just putting in the putting the hours before you get to set. Yeah, it's so essential.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

It's the same with auditioning too. Like I feel obviously it's different for auditioning. I think it's actually a bit of a one of the toxic things going on with the self-tape auditioning these days. It's like I feel like people just torture themselves. Yeah. They just like, yeah, they get an audition and they'll just be like in in the wherever they're doing it for just like two hours. Yeah. It's like take after take after take, and just like, I can do it better, I can do it better, I can do it better. It's just a horrible, like you shouldn't have to, it should just be like if you're gonna do it, research it, have a solid plan how you would do it, how it's gonna most importantly, I think how is it gonna be enjoyable for you to do it? Yeah, and then go in there and like you know, it's I'm definitely not the only person that does this, like that classic, you just set an alarm on the phone for like half an hour or 45.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Once that timer goes off, whatever I've got, use something. That's it. Because the chances of me getting something better after 45 minutes of being at this, yeah, sure I could, but it's like if you were right for the role in 45 minutes, something would have something would have happened.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yeah, I did an audition while I was away in the hotel and and I I I kind of got stuck in that loop of trying to I knew I was I was like it was kind of a technical moment, it wasn't like a performance thing, it was like a sort of a blocking and a you know hitting a mark.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Supposed to throw something at a certain point, it didn't have to be a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Yeah, yeah, something like that. And I really was like, oh, I can't get this right. And I ended up doing so many takes. The performance was the same every time, like it was like pretty much the same, but it was just this one blocking thing, and then I was like, How long are we working on this? Like, okay, that's an hour, that's that's it. Yeah, and then I was like, whatever I've got, like I'm just gonna pick one of them in because you know they're not looking for the full performance now.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

No, no. So like if you aren't able to show at least on a first round self-tape send-in, yeah, if you c if there's no spark or there, if there's nothing in there that the casting director can see, it's like they they would be right for it. Yeah, that's not gonna change in after 45 minutes. No, no, exactly. And you're not gonna have 45 minutes when you get to the set to get the scene right, either. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think you know, my I remember um the the thing that completely changed, just like my whole way of viewing that stuff was you know, Andy Stewart, uh he's an actor from Adelaide, he's in the room now. Yeah, okay. Um fantastic guy, a really good actor. And he was catching up with him for coffee like a few years ago, and just like I was just having a fat whinge. Oh, yeah, just about the self-taping in general and just how I'm just hating it. Yeah, yeah. I just feel like I'm not like I'd be better in the room, just like the classics, just like you know, having a having a real um, you know, just complaining. Yeah, yeah. And uh like I remember he was I was just like, I just hate doing the self-taping. And it would gotten to a point where I'd like, I would get a notification saying, Oh, you've got a self-tape. And instead of being excited about having a self-tape, I'd be like, I don't want to, uh like the next two days, like when am I gonna fit that in? Yeah, yeah. Which is obviously an awful mindset to be having as it does happen though.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Like sometimes, sometimes it, you know, you it's okay to go through ways. I think it's okay to be a little bit frustrated with it and be like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah. But this this was like a you know, this wasn't just like an ebbing and flowing, like you know, a couple weeks I was upset, it was like a solid 12-month period. Oh, okay. I'm actually just not enjoying it at all. Yeah, like bro, I'm straight up not having a good time.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Um, and so but it's like that, but then he said what he said, what I was thought was so profound at the time was he was like, Yeah, but dude, like being an actor and saying you hate doing self-tapes is like being an engineer and saying you hate maths. Yeah, you're in the wrong career. Yeah, like you because we're gonna be and he's so he was so accurate. He was like, You will be self-taping more often than you will be acting, yeah. Because you don't book if it's not a one-for-one thing, like you only book one in every ridiculous amount of auditions you do.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

Um, so he was like, You're kind of a professional self-taper. Yeah. And if you hate doing self-taping, that's a fucking problem. Yeah. Because you're just gonna be miserable 24-7. And then as soon as he said that, I was like, Oh, that's so true. Yeah, and then he was like, You're just gonna have to find a way to make that an enjoyable process. So, what's it like now for you? I yeah, I way better. Um I know you helped me out a lot with this actually, because I remember I messaged you about like I love your studio and like you'd been uploading a few scenes where I was like, it looks great. Yeah, like I just think for me, part of making it enjoyable needed to, I needed to be it needed to be more of a process. I needed a space.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

So like in this that we went um when we moved to this new apartment, like I had like a dedicated space for it.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Um I went and bought like a bunch of like proper lights. Yeah. Um, I already had like a a really nice camera and stuff, so that was a good thing. And it just I just make it more of like a professional. I just make it for me, it helps me personally. I know this, and I I don't want to, this is the last thing you know, you've touched on this before about in this podcast. You don't want it to be like, don't take what I'm saying at face value for like this is what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

That's right. Because I don't want people, I never want people to think like, oh, the only way that a self-taping is going to be enjoyable for you is if you go and spend a shitload of money on all this. Oh yeah, totally. You a hundred percent don't need to easily just have a phone. No, like and a shit little ring line tripod. Just me personally though, that wasn't making me feel inspired, and I wasn't feeling like it's just it's just a personal enjoyment thing for me. Yeah. And other people are obviously very different, which is so for me, it's I just needed to go just make it a bit more of a uh experience, a what a bit more involved. Yeah, feel like I have a bit more of a control over the space. Timer, don't spend more time on it. Yeah, that's good. Um, and then just kind of like just yeah, make it, you know, beforehand, like have a nice coffee after, go for a walk. Yeah, yeah. Do something enjoyable, like either side, like that Pavlovian conditioning. Like I condition myself psychologically to just feel good about the process instead of but then also most importantly, it was just like just do it the way you want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Like the well, yeah, in and find the creativity in you and and inject yourself into it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Yeah, you feel it, follow all these rules. They send you that like sheet that just says you've got to do this. It's gotta have you know, one casting director will say it'll be blue background or grey, or yeah, um, and they'll you know, with these lists of stuff and you're head following it, but then it's like just do it the way you imagined yourself doing it, and if you're right for it, they're not gonna pull you up on because your background was something stupid, they're not gonna be like, oh, this guy is perfect for the role, he's the answer to all the problems we've got.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Shame he used grey instead of yeah, it's like they're not gonna do that, or like you know, um but they I think they send I think it's important to have standards like you know, a structure because they send that out. Like if you they say you're new to acting, you don't know that what the standards are. Yeah, that's why they have this list of criteria so that you know, okay, at a bare minimum, I know that this is what this is how to do a self-tape, and it's really comprehensive instructions on how to set it up and you know everything, which is really important. And in the end, like it does come down to the performance, not the production. Yeah, and I know that uh my self-tapes have been, you know, over the last couple of years have been really like you know, out there and push it. Yeah, but yeah, even I'm a bit like, okay, look, am I the casting directors know me by now, I don't have to get their attention anymore. I'm like, am I now? I'm feeling like, am I just getting to the point where I'm just um neglecting the actual acting because I'm like, look how cool it looks. Look how cool it looks. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Yeah, well, so yeah, so it's all about for me, it's like, you know, the way I envision myself performing it and how you know I like, I mean, there was one a while ago that I remember of yours I saw where you were like down at the beach doing that stuff, and I was like, I see, I don't see I don't see an issue with that. If it's you know, you're there, you've got your camera, yeah, that's kind of what's going on in the scene anyway. Well set on a beach, yeah. Yeah, set on a beach.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Like it was they wanted us swimming and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Yeah, so and it's like if that's what you're doing, and again, it's like if you're I'm sorry, but if you're a casting director and he's doing the performance properly, and he's right for the role, but you're gonna get a B in your bonnet about the fact that he's at the beach doing it's hard to do. It got me a callback that one. That's great. Yeah. It should be, you know, within reason. I think obviously there's always gonna be some people either side who do way too little or way too much. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Um I think you gotta you gotta toe the line. Most people can tell where the line would be. Yeah. Yeah. I think I I worry that I'm getting I'm it's too much. Like uh my last few self-tapes are. Like, what are you doing then you think too much? Oh, I I can't talk about the project yet. But there like there was a bunch of self-tapes recently that went out and um a few scenes to shoot, like maybe four scenes to shoot, and um a couple of them I did like on a in a location and but but I can't imagine how I would have done the performance if I wasn't in that location. Yeah, because I needed the space, you know, it was like very physical. And um, but two of the other two of the other scenes I did just in here against the wall, because I'm like, all right, look, let's just focus on the acting, not the not the not showing off with the setting and the physicality or whatever, you know. Yeah, but like, oh look how crazy I am. I took a risk being in this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah, yeah, I think it's obvious when it's that's what you're doing. Yeah, it's like when it's obvious, it's just a wow factor.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Yeah, yeah. Knowing when you just okay. We get it, man. And when you're using it as a way to distract from your shitty acting, you know. Do you know what I mean? Like sticking the joint up, but at least you can't just trick people into hiring you. Yeah, no, I'll do that.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Yeah, you have to follow through, you know. There's nothing worse than you know, sending in a self-tape that you just you just know sucked. Yeah, well, that's right. Because you at the time you might be stressed, there's a lot going on, you don't have a lot of time to get it done. You just think, well, sending anything in is better than sending nothing. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I doubt whether that's the case. But if like I've sent stuff in the world, I kind of like, oh, that just really wasn't my best way.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah, I really think my last self-tape, I felt like that, and it was like, you know, I I got an hour in. I'm like, look, I don't know. I don't know if I maybe I'm not supposed to get it. Maybe this one's not for me or whatever, but watch that be the way. I've got to I gotta Well, that's right. Also, the fact that like you have to remind yourself you don't have any control over what happens in the end, you know, and also sometimes you just don't have control over what your performance is, yeah, you know, you can only do the do the best you can in the moment in you know where you are in your abilities or where your head's at for the day. Yeah, I was on holiday, you know, and I'm like, we want to go island hopping, you know. I don't want to be in here shooting a self-tape right now, but it's the job, and you know, yeah, and I you know, and I you know was enjoying doing it, but also I was like, oh, maybe I'm not doing my best work, but you know, that's okay. Today I'm not doing my best work, you know. I'm not being paid right now. Yeah. So sometimes you just have to send it in. But I I like to think that casting directors can tell know that.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Well, I think they I think they've seen a lot of your self-tapes, they might be able to pick like seeing them do a lot better. Yeah, and I'm not gonna hold that against it.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

I think you can have a bad day and have a bad self-tape. That doesn't mean you're gonna do bad work on the day. So you got callbacks. If they if they see something in you, they go, okay, you're having a shitty day, you did not not the best self-tape or whatever, but we saw something in there. Yeah, let's play with that. And then when you come in for the callback, you know, maybe you have a bit more time to get into the right into the right head space, you know. Stink it up a second time for a callback. I'm actually a fraud.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

I'm actually just a really shitty actor. Yeah. Sorry, yeah. No, you were right the first time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

I've been lying this whole time.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Oh, how good.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Yeah. How'd you um how'd you find the transition from Adelaide to Melbourne then?

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Good, actually. Yeah. I think I think all things considered, it was a it was a good trans transition. I think I I was kind of lucky at the start. I got a few decent little things going on, met some met some really like talented, like generous people. Yeah. Um I mean the thing is I was having this chat the other day. It's kind of like the thing, it's it's not that like a lot of my biggest projects still bring me back to South Australia. Yeah. So it's not that like, you know, there's a lot obviously a lot of big stuff going on in Melbourne. Um, but it's more so just the day-to-day stuff. Yeah, I find, you know, in between a bigger project, like a feature film or something like that, you might audition for. There's just so because it's just a bigger city, there's so much stuff on a day-to-day basis of someone's doing like a short film, or there will be a music video, or there will be like a brand spot. We need actors for like, you know, this content, or we need people to do like a short form, small like modeling thing. Yeah. For me, that was really cool because it was just kind of like I I felt like I was actually living off the industry.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

After a certain while, whereas it's like I feel like sometimes, you know, in Adelaide I was just feeling like you know, there were three things I did a year, and in between that nothing.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Which was just grading after a while, which is got kind of was getting to me a bit. Um, but I mean the the Adelaide industry since I left has just been booming. It's getting better and better better. I was in like since since I've since I've left, it seems to have just been getting like just noticeably and steadily busier and and bigger, cooler stuff going on. And so like I just yeah, I feel it was like a you know, I like I left and then I just kept getting stuff having to come back.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

Oh, that's good. Um, which is great, but yeah, now you're an interstate actor, so yeah, you're high demand.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yeah, you know it's a prerequisite to get to get gigs, you have to be interstate-based interstate to come back, and you also have to book a holiday that's not refundable and then you start booking. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Um that didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

I just went to the Philippines and what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

Well, that's what kept happening with this podcast, kept booking it in and then just stuff happening.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Yeah, um, no, yeah, I I really enjoy Melbourne. Um I think we should keep pushing for the idea that you you you should be able to stay here, stay here. Yeah, I was like, but like you said, the day the day today is obviously more busy. Yeah. Um if you if you're you know in Melbourne or Sydney because there's so much so many more productions happening, but still like the the idea that like your status changes because you live in another state. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

I'm I'm with you. I'm just waiting for that to just disappear. No, I'm I'm definitely with you there. I I just yeah, for me it wasn't when I moved to Melbourne, it wasn't solely that was a big factor. It's probably the main factor. Yeah, but it was also there was a personal aspect of just wanting a change. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Oh, that's that's a good reason. That's a great reason which to leave, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

So it wasn't it wasn't solely the whole turn.

oing Solo And Choosing Agencies

SPEAKER_01 53:12

So how'd you go about like finding an agent and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 53:14

Well, I was I was with buckling the gun up until very recently. Yeah, right. And gone solo at the moment. Really? Um yeah. No, it's I mean I I I have every intention of finding finding one, but yeah, I'd I just at the moment it was with Penrose and everything else happening throughout this year. It was kind of like the you know, for me at the when it happened, I was like, now's the time to do it. Yeah. Because I've already got some some projects I've I've locked in for the year. I can focus on them. Yeah. I won't be out of, you know, just sitting around twiddling my thumbs doing nothing. Um, and then, you know, something comes great. If if if uh it doesn't, that's great. Because I'll, you know, at the end of the year I'll have all these cool projects that I've worked on. I can use that as send off to other agencies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Some recent work.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah, some recent work to to show that this is what I've been doing and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I'm not too concerned about it at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

I'm I'm feeling are you finding it like easy enough to network while you're out on your own or like or find work?

SPEAKER_00 54:14

I mean, yeah, well, I mean, this will this will be the busiest year I've had on record, really. Yeah. Um, and I'm not represented now. Yeah. So I suppose. I don't know whether or not that's just lucky happenstance though. Whether or that's just kind of the where they've landed the the process.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

You've done all this work that sort of led up to this mic. Yeah, it's like I've planted some seeds. But also you're making your own stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

They've happened to bloom now. Yeah. Um, I don't know whether, yeah, so it's not like it's yeah. I've got a few agencies that I have like really high respect for over there that are who represent talent that I really respect and who I've you know spoken with and and worked with and what have you. So it's the thing about those bigger agencies though, it's like they're just really hard to get.

SPEAKER_01 54:51

They're hard to get, but also like do you want a big agent, uh a big agency, or do you want to be part of something smaller where you're like because if you're otherwise you just like well, I think a small fish in this massive pond, certainly.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

I think the thing about those bigger agencies though is their their talent books aren't as huge because they don't have the time or the care to balance a huge book of actors that they're not really invested in.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Which is kind of what I'm looking for. You know, that was part of the driving factor. Was like, I wanna I want to be part of an agency where like it's it's a symbiotic thing. It's like you're really invested in me doing well, yeah, and as a result, I'm really invested in doing well. And those agencies are the ones where it's like if you're not doing well, you will be rotated out. Yeah, and that's fine. Yeah, because it's like they only have so many slots and so many people that to devote their their energy to. Yeah, and when they do devote their energy to you, it's they're a lot of energy and a lot of yeah, but you've also got to put in the energy too.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

They're gonna see that you're proactive. Yeah, and if it's not, they're gonna be like, why am I you know, yes, there's someone out there who would kill to be on these books. Yeah, and you seem to not give a fuck. So why are you?

SPEAKER_01 56:05

It always shocks me. I still hear this, like um, particularly with like you know, actors that are new to it, they're still blaming their agent for not getting them work. Yeah, and it's it's the ultimate so don't cannot believe that's still a thing, and people think like, oh, I haven't booked anything, I haven't yeah, booked anything in ages. Yeah, I might leave this agent. And I'm like, what? Yeah, what are you talking about? Like you you realize how the process works. All they all they have to do, all they do is put you forward. Yeah, everything after that. They're not picking you, they're they're just going like you've they've got a criteria, they put you forward and and and the casting directors will decide if they want to see you.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

And like obviously that there is a there is an element of like if the agent's been in the industry a long time, maybe they've got some really good connections, really good relationships with um with casting agents. But of course, you're absolutely correct, in the sense that it's like it's not their fault that you didn't book it. Absolutely. What what's more the concern or get asked for a I think what's more the concern for a lot of people um is just the the finger on the pulse aspect of like, you know, like you see a project that you probably you like I feel like I would have been really good to audition for that and like I didn't even know it was happening until after it's finished filming.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Oh yeah, that that's not great.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

And it's like it's not ideal. That that's more the that's more the thing. It's like because that's not necessarily a you know, I didn't get it because this, that or the other. It's just yeah, I didn't even get a chance to audition.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

Yeah, that's but I also think that that goes beyond the agent as well. Like there's there's so many factors that uh r or reasons why that that could have happened, like casting directors, you know, are still only looking at at this at a certain group or their you know their favourites or whatever, or agents will still send in all the actors that fit the criteria, but they just the casting directors or directors don't even look at it, you know. There's just that many factors, and I just think it's I think it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

I'm definitely with you on the on the concept of like there's nothing worse than you know it's my agent's fault. Yeah, and you can always, yeah, I mean you can always just get a sense of like you know, when you look at what they're doing or or check up on you know the pro like you can tell it's like well you're not really doing a whole lot. Um, and that's it's it's hard to sell you when you're not What do you mean, the actor? Or yeah, yeah, like it's like what's hard, it's hard for an agent to sell you when you're not doing anything. Yeah, well if you're just sitting there waiting for the agent to call you, that's that's what I mean. Well you like you they you need to provide them with material. Yeah. Like, what can I give the casting agent of yours to swing them in your favour? What are you you know, if if that you're not working on anything, then there's no there's no momentum. I it's you know, yeah, it's hard to sell something that's not. Just sitting there waiting to sell nothing, yeah, being complacent and yeah. Yeah, I mean that's like there's an old saying I really liked where it's like an agent works better when you forget that you've got one. Yeah, it's like and it doesn't mean like oh you just ignore your agent or whatever. Yeah, but the concept is like the agent's there to book you the stuff that is the big ticket items that you can't get yourself, yeah. Um, so you you know, you know, you every now and then you once in the blue moon, you'll get the audition of like, oh, this is something really exciting. If I was to book it, this would be a big deal. Yeah, um, and there's no way I would have ever how would I ever have procured this audition without those channels? Yeah, that's what that's for. But in between that stuff, it's like you know, network.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Like talk to people, go outside and talk to people.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

There's so many jobs where I'm like, you don't need to concern my agent with this one, just message me. No, I'll loop them in, yeah. You know, they'll get the commission. But like, yeah, like that's if I can take the workload off my agent, that's that's great. Yeah, like you said, like they're there because they've they've spent the years building this amazing like um network with all these connections that they're the ones that are gonna funnel in all the um the big ticket items and you know put you forward for those. The ones that you don't have access to yourself as a as a solo actor.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

So how would I know? How would how would I have connections to someone casting out of LA? Yeah, would I have just done this or like just on that?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Yeah, no, the um but they don't need to be concerned with these little indies and stuff like we can do that, yeah, and we'll loop them in in extra space.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

It's uh it's such a horrible thing because I've been seeing this. This obviously some some people they some systems get roared online like you know, you see them places like Star Now and like Backstage, and yeah, like we need a lead, like hero talent for a proper like commercial for a very big car brand really for like full day rates, and they'll be like a thousand bucks. And it's like it's a horrible situation because it's like you you know if you've been in this in the industry long enough, you know for a fact something like that's worth like fifteen thousand dollars, yeah, yeah, or like sometimes more. Yeah, but if you don't have an agent and you're just starting out in the industry, whether or not it's fifteen thousand dollars is irrelevant, you're like, it's a thousand dollars and that's better than zero dollars, yeah, yeah. It's also good exposure because it will be on television. I will be able to put make a reel out of it, yeah. And so they just completely axe the middle man, yeah, and then the the talent, the these talent will do it. Yeah, and it's like, well, how do we guard against this?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

Well, that is that is the job of the agent as well. That's why it's so important. Have a have a really good relationship with the agent. And um, I mean, they're there to advocate for you and to sort of fight for the the right fee, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

But then but then what they'll do is that's what we it's it's a catch 22. I mean I it's horrible because what you would do is if you have your agent and the agent tries to fight on your behalf, that they will just go, well, this is too hard and just move down the line to the person who will eventually yeah. There's been a lot of people I've been like I've been encountered in Melbourne where this has happened where it's just like well that where they and it's like it's not the agent's fault because the agent's supposed to do that, yeah. But at the same time, they get scared to involve their agent because they just know for a fact the moment they involve their agent, the opportunity is just gonna just disappear because they don't want to deal with an agent. Yeah. Because the the moment they deal with an agent. So they can exploit a yeah, the moment they're dealing with an agent the agent goes, This is worth like ten thousand dollars more than you're asking, and they'll be like, Yeah, but we don't want to pay that, so it's annoying to deal with you, so we're just not gonna deal with you. And then they leave. Um How can they get away with that? It's yeah, it's just this horrible situation where the moment they start doing their job right, there are these certain things where it's just like we just won't operate with you then because we know we'll that's terrible. Eventually we will reach someone who either doesn't have an agent or is scared to involve the agent and will not. And those are the people that we'll work with so that we don't have to pay them. Oh man, that sucks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Commercials are and it's like, well, yeah. Are they gonna be happening in five years? Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah, how did that one that you were on set go? I didn't see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

Oh, in Melbourne. Oh, yeah. That came out well.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:41

That was so dude. I'll send it to you. It's so funny. Fantastic. It's so good. I loved it. I love working with Robin, the director. He's I worked with him years ago on Crazy K.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Yeah, again, this is the keeping in contact with people.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

Yeah, but also just like just posting something and just saying, I'm still doing it, I'm still in the game. Because he didn't realise until I was started posting again, and he was like, Oh, you're still acting. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, still doing it. That was amazing. So much fun, dude. Yeah, so good. No, that was a good one. It's a big scale too.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Huge cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:13

Yeah, that was so funny. Like, uh, just for context for the audience, like I got cast in a commercial in Melbourne and flew over for a few days to shoot this commercial when Brad was on set as an extra. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that's and this is what I'm talking about. And also great for us to reconnect because that was kind of why we reconnected, eh?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

Yeah, exactly right. That's that's what I meant about in Melbourne, there just being that stuff on a day on a daily basis, where it's just like you know, you'll just you know, check around and be like, oh, there's like you just come and chill out as an extra on a on a set for you know a few hundred bucks for the day. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well, I'd rather be doing that than a few hundred bucks at a bar or working retail, yeah, yeah. Or something like that. It's like at least I'm there, at least I'm in the industry, at least I'm catching up, networking with people, that's kind of stuff. It's like, and you can make it's not diamonds and fur coats, but you can make a living doing that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

You know, yeah. Do you remember that? Do you remember that scene that we were trying to that we were trying to shoot? And they wanted a really specific look. We were sitting at the the the dinner table. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And poor Robin, poor Robin had like had like the client in his ear being like, We need this exact look. And Robin's like a look of silent befuddlement. Yeah, something like that. And I'm like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

Yeah, no, I was I remember I was like completely opposite you, just like watching you just have to do the same thing a million times.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

And I look at you, I'm like, I did that, right? Oh yeah, I did that. I was frustrated the hell out of me. You know, even even Robin apologizes, he's like, ah bro, I had the thing, the client, you know. Yeah, and so awkward because you don't want to be difficult and be like Yeah, no. I was just like, do it again, we'll try it again, yeah, see if I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

No, I yeah, that was so funny. When you I'm glad I had you there. I did that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Yeah, I'm glad I had you to like just look at and be like, am I losing my mind, bro? Yeah, I can do this, right? Yeah, that was so funny. That was a great shoot, man. So much fun, so many costumes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

And wasn't the other lead actress from Adelaide at all?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Um the one who played your wife. No, she lives in Melbourne, but her AJ is here.

enrose Plans Plugs And Support

SPEAKER_00 1:05:14

Yeah, yeah, dude. What are you doing tonight? Oh, going to uh heading up to the to the farm, yeah. Um which is where Penrose is set. Yeah. Um, and yeah, me and uh Miles and Rip, the director, are just gonna get some get some creative ideas flowing. Yeah, nice kind of figure out some some fun. Production meeting. Yeah, a bit of a production meeting, get make sure we're on the same table and just kind of be in the space.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

I'm excited, man. I can't wait to get into it. Yeah, keep me in the loop because um I'll forget about it otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

You really I'll keep I will absolutely keep you updated.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Hell yeah. Anything else you want to plug or No What's your Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Give us your give us your socials. Just uh Brad underscore McCarthy. Double underscore actually, I think it is. Double underscore? I think Brad One underscore was

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

was taken. Double underscore and double C McCarthy. McCarthy. Yeah. Well dude, thank thanks for coming, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:07

It's so good. It's been awesome, man. I've been I've been wanting to to come on this ever since it started. So no it's been really great. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:13

I'm so glad that we've reconnected after all these years because like we kept as I said at the start like we kept you know we knew of each other but we never really worked together. We didn't we weren't we're never really close which we should have been you know and and then we bumped into each other on that commercial and then I saw you at the premiere of Numbered Lives and I was like hell yeah. Had the podcast at the premiere really we chatted just about everything oh yeah we did at the premiere yeah I was like oh man that would have been a great episode yeah um yeah dude this is so good it was great thanks awesome thanks for having me ah Brad you handsome handsome man that it was that t-shirt hey cheese thanks for coming in bro I'm so keen to work with you later this year uh hey give him a follow on Instagram at Brad underscore McCarthy oh sorry double underscore that's double underscore double c Brad McCarthy uh also while you have the app open give the podcast a follow at go pluck yourself pod and give me a follow at featuring underscore chris underscore gun and whether you're watching on YouTube or listening on your preferred podcast platform make sure that you hit subscribe or follow it's the easiest way to support the show. And hey if you really want to support the show you can do that by signing up to the Patreon at patreon.com slash go pluckyourself pod and contributing as little as five dollars a month towards the show. Guys this thing is entirely listener funded by you you're the listener so if this podcast fires you up creatively please do me a favor and type that link into your browser to become a Patreon member. That's patreon.com slash go pluckyourself pod. And hey look I realize that the podcast has been a little bit broy lately. I'm sorry for that but I have been recording some new episodes and I have some really amazing women coming onto the show and I cannot wait to share these episodes with you. So make sure that you're subscribed on all the platforms so that you don't miss out on any future episodes. Alright theme music by my amazing cousin Nick Gunn. Check out his work on SoundCloud soundcloud.com slash nick gun it's gun with one end all right I'm off to shoot one more scene of this film and then I'm getting stuck into some line learning so take it very easy guys get some rest I'll see you in a couple of weeks my name is Chris Gunn and hey go pluck yourself