Ep 21 Madeleine Wighton: Maintaining Your Mental Health As An Actor

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Sydney-based actor, director, and coach Madeline Whiton stops by the studio while in Adelaide for the Fringe to talk about maintaining your mental health as a creative. We get into rejection, self-doubt, the fear that blocks you in auditions, why playfulness makes you a better actor, and why putting the human before the actor is the foundation of a lasting career.

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Transcript

Welcome Back And Theatre Lessons

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, my name is Madeline Wyden and you should go pluck yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Hello and welcome to Go Pluck Yourself The Actor's Pursuit. My name is Chris Gunn. If you're new here, this is a podcast for actors and filmmakers or artists, creatives of any kind. It's all about the pursuit of getting anywhere in your creative lives. And in some ways, it's like a kind of like a little diary entry for me as I figure out my own journey as an actor. But I do that by sitting down with these amazing guests, these wonderful creatives, as we share ideas and views and things that we've learned, and you get to be a fly on the wall for these conversations. So welcome. Make sure you hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube or hit follow if you're listening on whatever podcast platform you're listening on. It has been many weeks since my last episode, and that's because, as you probably know, I've been doing a play which is all finished up now, but it was really, really fun. I mean it was a heavy play, but it was a really juicy script to sink our teeth into, and uh we had great audiences every night and lovely feedback, some very kind reviews, and I just feel very grateful to James Watson and Amelia Williams for having me on board and to my other castmates, Virginia Blackwell and Daniel Fryer Calabro, for just making the experience so creative and so fun. It was just another reminder how important it is to do theatre as an actor. Even if you do prefer film, do theatre at least once a year or every couple of years. Theatre is where you actually learn how to act. You have more time with the script, you get to sit down with your character for longer, you get to workshop scenes, you get to do the whole thing from start to finish. It just forces this kind of intense discipline that is only going to make you stronger as an actor and help you in other projects. Also, I wanted to thank everyone who came along to the show. I know it's really hard to make it to these things. It's tough, I know. But for those of you who were able to get there, I'm really, really grateful that you made it along. It was also nice to see some filmmakers there who um probably hadn't been to a lot of theater. So nice to see some filmmaker friends in the audience as well. Anyway, should we get to today's guest? Um so about three months ago, this amazing person reached out to me on Instagram and was like, hey, I love what you do, I love the podcast, I'm coming to Adelaide for the fringe, and I would love to come on the pod. And of course, I was like, uh, yeah, because I checked out her work and her socials, and she's just this incredibly outgoing and bubbly and hardworking and inspirational actor. Well, she's not just an actor, she's an award-winning actor, director, and coach. She's written and directed her own film and is currently working on her next one. She also runs her own coaching business called Hopeful Goose Creative, where she helps actors to stand out and book more jobs and find more creative joy. She's acted in like a billion ads. She works in film, TV, and theatre. I don't know where she finds her time, but she's amazing. Oh, and her name is Madeline Whiton, and she hails all the way from a place called Sydney. And it was really lovely to have her on the show. It was the first time we'd ever met, which is always a bit daunting, but she was super friendly and it felt like sitting down with an old pal, you know? It was nice. Anyway, it's a lovely chat. It's a bit of a mental health chat. We get into all the nitty-gritty stuff about managing your mental health as an actor and coping with rejection and enjoying the silliness of doing what we do. All that stuff. It's great. I wanted to release this episode a long time ago. Um, this was recorded way back in March, so I'm sorry that this one's taken so long, but you know, with the play and everything and burnout and you know how it is. Man, I give a lot of excuses on this podcast. I feel like half the show is just me explaining why I haven't done an episode in a while. Anyway, you know why. Here we go.

Meet Madeline And Madelaide Vibes

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Please enjoy my very bubbly chat with the wonderful Madeline White. I just wanted to jump straight in. Yes. Because I don't know you. Yeah. You don't know me. No. And I think that's really exciting because we can get to know each other on the podcast. As we go. Because we only have this, like, like most of my guests and most of the people that I know in this industry, we have just these weird parasocial friendships. Yes, yes. I'm like, I have this idea of everyone, but I don't really know them. So this is like a nice way to get to know everyone. So who are you?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

I am Madeline. Hi, Madeline. All Mads. Mads. But don't call me Maddy, please. Well, I wouldn't think of it.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Wouldn't dream of it. No.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Um, yeah, I'm Madeline. I'm an actor. I run my own business coaching actors as well, which is really exciting called Hopeful Goose Creative. Yes. And I make my own films, and I'm a mermaid, and I love cows and uh okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Hold on. You love cows? No, I was kidding. You're a mermaid? What? What are you talking about? I just love mermaids.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

I just love the beach, I love the water. All right. I believe mermaids are real.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

They're out there. You're just not looking in the right places. It's a big ocean. You're at the beach today. Yeah. Down at Work Glen Elk?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Um, Henley.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

That's a beautiful spot. Yeah. And the water was alright. It was fresh. The water must have been okay because you saw a seal.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yeah, there was a seal. It was doing the thing how they like stick their fin up out so it looks like a shark, but it's not. Truesters. But they're so cute.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

It's pretty special to see one.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. It's pretty special. Have you been to Adelaide much? A couple of times. Yeah. Partners, grandparents are here. And I love them. I love Nonna.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

I love her so much. But I love it here so much. Have you always been an Adelaide?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah. What's the um what's the rhetoric about Adelaide over in Sydney? Because people people talk shit on Adelaide so much.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Well, before like Michael and stuff, I was like, I would never need to go to Adelaide.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Like, why would I?

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

But I actually love it so much here. It's just so chill.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

It's so chill.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

I don't know what shit people are talking about.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

I think it's based on something, uh the vibe in the 90s, maybe. Because I I mean I'm sure it was a it was really boring at one place at one point.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

But boring's really good too.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah. Well, yeah. When I go to Sydney, I'm I'm like so overstimulated. I'm like, oh my god, there's so many people. And every suburb is a whole city to me, you know. And here's like everything's like 15 minutes away. I can pop to the other side of the city and back and be like, I'll be back in half an hour.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

And you don't have to pay for parking. No.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I okay. I got two parking fines on the same day two days ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

On the same day.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

They arrived on the same day. They're from different days.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

I'm so sorry. That's so rude.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yeah, it is rude. It is rude of them.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Well, apparently they have like cars here with cameras that drive past and like take photos of your cars if you're parked illegally. Is that a thing?

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, I think it must be because like they they sent me the photo.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah. Whereas I don't know if that's a thing in Sydney. They're so sneaky, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Sneaky, sneaky. But you know, considering we don't usually have to pay for parking. My I think the parking fine's probably the equivalent of like a day of parking park in Sydney. So I was like, You're fine. This is okay. You know, when you put things in perspective. It's

Hopeful Goose Coaching Explained

SPEAKER_02 7:06

all good. Yeah. Alright, so what's Hopeful Goose Creative? And where did the name come from?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Hopefully Goose Creative is like the umbrella I make my films underneath Hopeful Goose Creative. And it's also the my coaching business, which is really exciting. And I work with passionate actors who love to like up-level their skills as well. I also studied psychology and I'm really passionate about like mental well-being for creatives and how that's like such an important thing and needs to keep being talked about more and more and more. Yes. Um, and so I do mindset coaching too. That's like, I'm definitely not a psychologist, but like talking about different neuroscience-backed tools you can do to just like really level up your confidence, because that can be such a big thing. Like you might be the most talented person in the world, but you've if you don't have that confidence, then like So what's the sort of the crux of that?

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Like, where do you start with that? I mean, w without taking away from what you do and the demo version before you someone buys the trial or the the subscription.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Or in like a one-on-one mindset session with someone, I love like tailoring it to their specific needs, of course. Um, and I have like a whole hunk of um tools and stuff I can teach them and they can practice. But I I like to chat about where they're at, yeah, maybe where they've come from, where they want to be, and what's getting in the way. Because lots of the time it is just like self-doubt or something a teacher said to them years ago that they're still clinging on to. And I'm like, that's actually a lie. And like your brain is trying to cling to that and keep you safe, but you're not gonna thrive.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

So interesting. Yeah. What's the most common thing that comes up? Is it is it along those lines? Is it just like something that's that was like deep set in them from that one coach or that one teacher? Or what what is it that gets people you find gets people over that threshold from breaking through to the other side of that?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Sometimes it's like tiny, tiny little baby steps. I think most of the time it's tiny baby steps to like rewiring your brain to actually help you. Yeah. Because your brain's often trying to keep you safe, keep you comfortable. And so much of what we do as creatives is so vulnerable. Yeah. And like so outside of our comfort zone. So as soon as we're trying to do that, our brain's like, uh no, no, no, no, like come come back, yeah. Stay safe, just sit on the lounge instead. So that's where procrastination comes into play and like perfectionism, and that's all just fear. It's just fear, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah, and holding off something so we don't have to face the fear of something.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah, fear of failure. Yeah, like you gotta fail. Yeah. I loved the teapot's analogy on one of your other episodes with her. Yeah, with Lauren. Lauren, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, yes, just like we gotta get better at failing, failing gloriously, so that we can figure out what to do next, how to grow.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Absolutely. I feel very lucky that I that I kind of developed that mentality from a young age, I think. Like the well, understanding the the um the process of learning something or being bad at something until you're good at it, or just making bad work and just being like, yeah, but I'm just mucking around right now. It's yeah, you know, it's not good until I I've sort of reached that point and then it's you know, throw something out in the world and like, oh that that one was actually pretty good, or maybe I'm getting pretty good at this. So all the all the teapots, you know, didn't really matter, you know.

Confidence Tools And Baby Steps

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So where did all this start for you? Like what was your uh I don't know, creative upbringing like? Was it my creative upbringing? You know, in terms of the create the creative influences in your life, or or even even like where did you how did you get to this point where you you did have the confidence to to just try things and be bad until you're good or whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Okay, big question.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

Um I will throw some things at the I'll I'll cut that down to a very short question that that makes me sound very eloquent.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Um so I I grew up dancing. I always loved dancing, yeah, and I wasn't the best though. I was never front and center, which I really wanted to be. I was always in the back, but then I like got into singing a little bit and loved like the performance side of that, um like becoming a character. So then that kind of led me into musical theater. And meanwhile, no one in my family really um had done anything like this as like a career. Even like the high school I went to was not encouraged. I told the principal, I want to be a performer, and he was like, Okay, but what do you actually want to do? Yeah, um it was more like focus on academics and making money kind of stuff. Um, but you can make money as an actor. Um you can. Yeah, I studied musical theater and I loved that. I s I still do, but um then I kind of transitioned into like doing more screen acting classes, which I love. And then from there too, I was like, there's all these cool people making their own films. I could never do that. Yeah, but then I was like, no, I actually really want to, um, because I

From Dance To Making Films

SPEAKER_00 11:55

think it would challenge me and help me grow um and potentially create opportunity for me, which it definitely has. But I had no idea what I was doing, and I was full of so much self-doubt, so much self-doubt. And so I hired a coach to to help me like teach me how to make films kind of thing. Um, so I made like my first film and is this Bernice?

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Yes, when did you make that?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

I made that in 2023, I think. Yeah, yeah. So that was my first film.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

That's your first film.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, and I was just like, let's similar to like the T-Bots. I was like, my coach was saying, um, let it be the first pancake. Like when you're cooking pancakes, usually the first one's a bit dodgy. Yeah, yeah, it's nice, yeah. Like it's a bit burnt or like still a bit raw. I'm like, yeah, just I'm gonna learn so much, and I did. I learned so much about like how to form a team, how to lead a team, how to just make a film full stop. And that encouraged me to like make more and work in different ways and keep trying different hats on and seeing um what brings me joy and following that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, which I I haven't seen Bernice, and I I don't know, is it online somewhere? Can I watch it? Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

It should be. I'll put it out online.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

I was like, oh, maybe I should watch this, but I couldn't find it anyway. But from what I've heard about it and everything you're talking about, there's so many elements of that and themes of that in in your film. What's what's it actually about?

SPEAKER_00 13:17

So it's about a lady called Bernice who's grieving and that's not touched on heaps, but she uses um her 3 a.m. awake times to go burgle other people's houses, and instead of like burgling, she um like leaves little sticky notes of encouragement that changes their lives for good. And she like waters their plants, tidies up the kitchen, that kind of thing. Um, and then she inspires someone and then they burgle her and they fall in love.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So it's like a 12-minute thriller rom-com, but it's not very scary. That's so nice. My two-year-old nephew thought it was scary.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Oh, yeah, okay. Where did the idea come from?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Um, I was doing a writing workshop th thing, like on Zoom, and that we were just given heaps of prompts again and again after like two minutes. You just like free write based on the prompt, and the prompt was um, if you were a criminal, what would you do? And I was like offended because I would not be a criminal. Um, I was like, maybe I'd be a criminal for good. Um, and it kind of came out from there. Like, my aim is to keep talking about mental health and grief, like things that are very personal to me and I'm very passionate about, but through like a playful lens, through a colourful, playful, silly lens. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Yeah. And that was your first film. Yeah. And then so what happened with it? You you got it made and then you what sent it out to a bunch of festivals?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah. And so got into like um Sydney Fest in Western Australia, um, NMS Film Fest, and then like quite a few overseas as well. And we won like the big overall award at Sydney Webfest, which was all like different. Um I'm wearing pink today. Um, the whole film is very pink. Yeah. And that festival was very pink as well. So I was like, it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Ah, beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Um I won the Changemaker Award for Women as well at the Joy House Film Festival, which was really encouraging.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

The Change Maker.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Change Maker Award. Making change for women.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

You're making changes.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Making change for women. Nice. So that was really encouraging too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Um and so do you have plans to make more movies? Have you got more ideas?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yes, yes, yes. So um we just had a private screening of one that's just finished post-production.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Oh, another one of yours.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yes. So it's called R.A.P. People Pleaser. And my friend, she wasn't my friend at the time, but now we're like besties. Yeah. We got um put together by Adam Dunn. I don't know if you know Adam Dunn. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's written it, and she was the lead in that one, and I directed it and we produced it together. Nice. Um, but yeah, we just had a private screening and it was so fun. How good having a full cinema of people laughing and reacting? Um, so yeah, that one's so funny. It's so funny. Yeah. But then at the end always makes me cry as well. That's the game. Yeah. Make them piss their pants with laughter and then cry.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Um and you're acting in that one too.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah, I have a small role in that one. Nice. Which is fun.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

So you're acting and directing in your own films. Yeah. How's that experience for you?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

It's hard.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Uh I wouldn't really recommend it.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

But I'm like, if I'm I do love acting, like most of all. So if I'm like, if I'm putting like a year's worth of time and energy into making a film, just I want a little role in it.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

So I was like, I can just do this one scene and then focus on everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Yeah, I think it'll be the hardest thing in the world. I did a film recently and the director was was acting as the lead in it.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Oh it was great. As the lead, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Lead and directing, but it was really great because uh they had this like amazing team around around them. And school ball. Oh yeah. I uh as long as the team sort of understands, like, okay, you're you need to be in acting mode now. Yeah. And so we're gonna take on a little bit of the the other responsibilities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Um if you can like sw switch the hats if you're happy to like pass the director hatch.

SPEAKER_02 17:07

It was really cool to watch as well, because I you know, she was I was acting opposite her, so she was acting with me, even though you know we're getting my coverage, and then and then would kind of snap out of that and be like, alright, now we'll get notes, you know. Yeah, and then she'd snap back into it, and yeah, it was it looked like a real shell.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

From within the scene, like not during the scene, like you know, after the snap.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

It was I think it was cool because she would like she would be able to feed me uh not notes, but like, you know, in the way that she delivers lines, she might get a different reaction out of me, which is which is kind of cool. The energy and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Similar um in Bernice, I was like co-directing with the DOP because he like is a DOP but also a director. So we kind of like shared that, which made it easier. Yeah. But I was like, I just I do want to wear all the hats, even though it's gonna be fucking hard because I want to learn. I want to learn.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Yeah, but how did you meet all your crew and stuff? Like, how did you get all this going?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

Yeah, so Tony Gardiner was um the DOP and co-director of Bernice, and I had met him, he was DOP on um a TV show I did, like a couple of years before. And that's when I first got this idea of like maybe I could do this. I was just like so fascinated by watching like everyone else on set do their thing so well.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And just like through like friends and like people they know and people they recommend, and then oh, but then they know someone. That's kind of how I formed that crew, and then for People Pleaser, lots of people I'd worked on another film with as well, which I was just purely acting in, that one. Um, so I kind of like stole lots of them. I I made sure it was like mostly women as well, which was the best. Hired my partner to be first AD, you know. Yeah, mostly just word of mouth people I know. It's a way to do it because I've heard of good eggs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

And it shows in in the way you go about things as well. I mean, even reaching out to me while you're in Adelaide and be like, hey, can I come and chat on the podcast? It's it's so cool.

Social Media Visibility Without Burnout

SPEAKER_02 19:03

How important is is um like having a social media presence to you or using social media as a tool to network, you know?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I think visibility is important, and social media is a great way to do that for free. Um I think actors can be scared about what they post and like overthink it too, which I've definitely been there in the past. But I yeah, I think visibility is very important and it's a great strategic tool to like show the world this is what I actually do and I do well. And like you don't have to be posting like every single time you do a self-tape, right? Yeah, but um also just showing who you are as a human is important because that is coming into lots of your work as well, anyway. And I feel like if casting directors do look at social media, um, they want to just see you in motion in the world.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Yeah, well it's like you said before, you know, when you were finding your crew and you were talking about who you had heard is a good egg. Yes. And if, you know, as you were saying, also putting your own personality out on social media and it's that whole parasocial relationship thing as well. Um, but it's an opportunity to because we're not in the room anymore doing auditions, and we're not really face to face with anyone unless we actually get onto a set.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

But it's such a great way to just put your personality out there and put your views on the way you do things. And if they are, if they are watching your content, like yeah, you've just made this relationship with someone and they can go, all right, no, they seem all right.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, I'd be happy to work with them for 12 hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I liked what you said about um personality too, because I feel like some actors too, their whole personality is them being an actor. And I feel like that's like self-sabotaging in a way as well, because just being a full human being with a full lived-in life is so exciting to live and so refreshing. And um that's much more attractive, I think, to a casting director than someone who's just like, I'm an actor, I'm still desperate.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah, yes, we know you're an actor. Yeah, come on. It's very cool. Yeah, but who are you?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Yeah, yeah. What do you think? Are you on the deck?

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love your content though. Thank you. It's so it's so joyous and funny and and like bubbly. It's great. It's very, I mean, it's it seems very you, you know, it's it's really cool. When did you start up your like your Instagram?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Uh for the for the Hopeful Goose page, maybe only like a year ago. Yeah. Because I was doing everything on my main Madeline Whiteon page.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Um, but then I was like, no, I actually want to develop my business more and post more about coaching stuff. Yeah. So I was like, nah, I'll start a separate thing for that.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah. Well, so what's what have you made your Madeline Whiteon page more than that?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Well, I I well now you can collab on posts too. So if it's like hey, I did an acting gig, like I can collab on um them. Um but my main page is like me as a human, me as an actor, just Madeline.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

And then Hopeful Goose is that too, because I think it's important. To show people you're a human being, not just someone, a coach. But then I like do stuff very specific to acting.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah. Yeah. That's why I like having this, because I this is this is I can like have it have a license to be a bit advice-y, which feels gross for me. Yeah. But I'm like, but at least I've got this. Like I'm a white dude with a podcast. So I can do that now. But then my other one, I've I'm like, you know, a bit more personal stuff and and like more of the artsy stuff that I do that's a bit more self-promotey rather than, you know. So it's it's handy to have and then they can collaborate on that.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

And I feel like we're similar with like the different platforms. But yeah, I think there is crossover too.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel like people struggle to get started with it though. Which, you know, it do you think it's essential? Do you think it's like a necessity right now? Or social media as an actor?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Not essential, but it can help a lot.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah, I don't know where I sit with that. Because it's so much work. It is. And I think it can really drain you and it can burn you out very quickly. Yes. You know, I go through sort of these waves of like energy, and then I'm like, I can't do this. Yeah. I I want to delete everything.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah, of course. I did. I went overseas last year for a month and I deleted Instagram for that whole time. But I re-downloaded it like three weeks in to post something about my film. Yep. Bernice was having its final screening. I was like, I should post about this. But as soon as I opened up that app, I was like, like the anxiety came back. Yeah. Which is so interesting. But yeah, yeah, it can be very addictive.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

It's so addictive. And it's also such a weird thing because you know, it's essential for us as actors, you know, or very helpful for us as actors, but also the risk of having it, it means that you're exposed to just the most disgusting and horrible things that are happening around the world, which we need to know about. So you're kind of torn like staying informed and also just completely inundating yourself with horror. Yeah. Which we're not supposed to see all the time. No, you know. But it's important that we do see it. Yeah, I know. We always see it. I don't know what to do. And feel it. Do you know what I do recently? I um I had to go into my algorithm and I had to tell it, don't show me anything political for a while. Uh-huh. No, just look after yourself. You can literally tell it like what you want to see, what you don't want to see. And because I was waking up every day and I was just like, okay, yeah, that Trump has my day now.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Like, and he doesn't he doesn't deserve my day.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

No, and that's not how you want to start the day too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

So I was just like, no, nothing political. And like very quickly, it all snuck back into my algorithm. Yeah. Which is fine because I need I want to know what's happening. But I did notice a massive difference just in my my motivation, you know, if ever day to day. And I was like waking up and I was like, oh, okay. It was like if I if I could avoid looking at my phone at all, that was even better. Yeah. But but even if I did, it was like just I don't know, creative stuff or something or something nice that was happening, or or my friends doing something fun. Yeah. And I was like, ah, I noticed such a difference in my mental health.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

But yeah, it's a it's a privilege though as well to be able to mute that part of it as well.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

I know.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

So it's hard it's hard. But it can be like that sense of duality too. Like we can see how fucked up the world is and feel awful about that while also noticing how beautiful the world is and how much joy we get from like the people around us and the sunshine outside, the water, the seal at the beach. Yes. Like there you can have both at the same time. Yeah. But um, if the destruction and terribleness is getting too much, then yeah, look after yourself. Yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah. I feel like people, in my circle at least, you know, have a m have enough of a conscience to to sort of find that balance without just completely ignoring it all, you know. Anyway.

Mental Health As The Job Foundation

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Well, it kind of brings us into a bit of like, you know, you mentioned you you're big on mental health earlier on. How do you look after yourself as an actor? And what do you see amongst your peers that that comes up, you know?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yeah, so I am a big believer that we need to be putting the human first and the actor second. Like I always say that to my students, and they're like, I'm sorry, like I haven't submitted this to you on time or whatever. I'm like, it's fine. Like, look after yourself, and then we'll get to the acting next. Like, because you can't be a good actor if you're neglecting your mental health.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

So true.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Like, do not neglect your mental health for art's sake. I'm a big believer in living, like living your life and looking after yourself and um taking days off to go to the beach and swim with the seals under the jetty, you know? Um, so that when you do need to show up and like get to work, you can do so. Yeah. Because you have the energy, you have the mental capacity, yeah, and the energy to like really dive in.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah. Because I feel like there's a lot of pressure as well, or we we think there's a lot of pressure. There probably isn't as much as we think there is. Um, like you said, to you know, deliver. But when when life gets in the way, like life is allowed to get in the way.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

You know, an acting career is is always it's it's just a through line, it's always going to be there and it might fluctuate. But if you gotta say no, you can say no.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Yeah, you know, and there's power in that too, saying no.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Absolutely. Sure. Because who are you if you just who are you as a performer, as so as an artist, as an actor, if you're not looking after the vessel and the and the your your mind and your and even physically as well. Yeah. You know, yeah, not getting enough sleep or overworking yourself, or just not getting out and not not seeing the sun or the seals, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

All the seals.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

You know?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Um, yeah, like if your nervous system is not regulated and calm, you you won't be showing up as your full self. You won't be booking the jobs because you'll be like forgetting your lines because you're in fight or flight, or you'll be like not being able to take on a director's notes. Um because you won't be grounded. Um, I've definitely experienced that in the past, but the more I yeah, look after myself mentally and emotionally, the more creative I am as well. Yeah because we're switching off like the amygdala, the fear center of our brain, and we're stepping back into the prefrontal cortex, which is where creativity stems from, like, which is where our focus is, where we can make decisions from. We can make creative, exciting decisions from there. Yeah. Instead of just fear trying to people please within our acting.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Oh, so true.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Just doing instead of bringing our full self to the role as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

And having fun. So how do you we're allowed to have fun?

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, absolutely. What do you what do you what do you like on

Playfulness On Set And Auditions

SPEAKER_02 28:41

set? What am I like on set? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I'm great.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Oh yeah. I get the job done.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

I I'm very playful to be around. Yeah. Um, but also like people know that I'm professional and I can do the job well. Um and I'll get the job done while bringing it bringing good energy.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Because uh yeah, I was I'm sort of thinking about that fun the fun thing, right? Because even I like to have fun on set. Yes. But you know, within a professional boundary. Yes, you know. Um but you have to enjoy it. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 29:16

I get cheeky on set. Yes. Like big especially like TVCs when it can be very stressful with like the differing opinions of um the client and the producers and the director and everything.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

You're taking direction from all these different people. You're like, who's the leader here?

SPEAKER_00 29:33

And I trust that like we will get it, we will get the shot, whatever, but we can still get the shot while having fun. Yeah. And so I'm always like, Are you having fun? I ask everyone, are you having fun?

SPEAKER_02 29:44

You having a good time?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Yeah, because it is such a privilege to be able to act, to be living these creative lives. It's such a privilege. So many people don't get to live their dreams in this way at all.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Um, so I'm like, no, let's stay grateful, guys. Yeah. It is stressful, yes, but like we'll get it done. Yeah. Believe in yourself.

SPEAKER_02 30:03

I find it really hard when I see people having like a miserable time on set. Yeah. And probably outside of film as well. Like just in general. Like, I'm just like, are you okay? You need to be okay. You know? Which is you know, probably a th problem.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

But it's like, it's like at some point everyone's started believing as like adults that we need to be serious now. Yeah. I'm like, no, we can be, we can still have fun and like be silly. Just like kids are so playful.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

And just because you're having fun doesn't mean you're not good at what you're doing as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Totally. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Like you can have both at the same time. You can enjoy it. You can be a silly goose and be fucking amazing. Yeah, yeah. At your job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yes, I love that. I know. I I remember bumping into uh oh no, um I was hanging out with some old friends from school, and someone was sort of complaining about their job, which is all good. Like that's part of living, you know. You know, you're allowed to complain about things to your friends. Yeah. And it's important. And one of one of the guys just goes, It's your job, mate. You're not meant to enjoy it. And I looked at my other friend and we're just like, We're so angry. Yeah, I'm like, I know, yeah. No, you you are allowed to enjoy your life, man. Yeah. You're allowed to find something you love doing and do it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah.

unknown 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Anyway, it doesn't have to be so serious.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Yeah, it's not that serious, eh?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

And you'll do you'll do better work too. Like, I literally teach um in my mindset a tool I've created called Silly Goose on the Loose. And it's all about just like tapping into your like whimsy.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

And being more playful. Yeah. And then you'll um audition so much more like creatively. And you'll stand out.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

It's really for your own benefit because I f I feel silly doing a lot of the things that I do. And that's probably gonna inhibit me.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

You know, doing some silly character for a commercial. Yes, you know, in this little tiny room here. And I know people out there can hear me, yeah, you know, screaming at at the camera or something, whatever. But just finding the fun in being silly, yeah, even though the role itself might not be silly or whatever, but just finding the humour in what you're doing, you know, external to the character. Just like, well, this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Committing Yeah, and totally committing, yeah. Instead of being like, Oh, I'm silly, that's your brain again, being like, you should stop what you're doing and be normal. Yeah, yeah. Um, but that's trying to self-sabotage you again, I reckon. Yeah, totally. That inner voice being like, people are listening.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yeah, fuck it. I was um because I teach one acting class a week. Yes. That's that's all I have capacity for.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

But like I love my class that I teach, and and they're all you know, beginner actors, and they, you know, of all different age, like from 18 to like in their 60s.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Oh, I love this. Oh, they're lucky to have you. Ah, that's very nice, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

But so much of what I what we talk about is just noticing the things that are blocking us. And last week we're doing this little scene, and I was just like, I I want you guys to do this scene, and we and we can film it or not, it doesn't really matter. But I want you just and we're gonna do it in front of the the group, right? I just want you to notice external to the character. I just want you to notice what what you feel and what you go through throughout the scene. Yes. Like what you're feeling before the scene starts, and and you know, any moments that you you come out of the character and you're just like suddenly really self-aware and or you realize you don't know what you're doing with your hands or you realize that you're not breathing or whatever. And I just want you to take note of that and then we can discuss it afterwards and figure out methods to cope with those things as they come up and not fear them when they come up because they will come up, you know what I mean? I found that really helpful for them because they they were just going like, Oh, I'm really nervous of the camera. I just realized the camera's watching me. I'm like, okay, so how can we deal with that? Yeah, how are you gonna cope with the camera being there? Because the camera's gonna be there, you know. You gotta you gotta be friends with that thing. So I said, why don't you look at the camera? Just look at it and walk right up to it. And he's like, okay, and then he's put his face in the camera. I'm like, look, it's not gonna get it's not gonna kill you. Yeah, you know, it's just there, it's it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Yeah, getting specific with the fears, yeah, yeah, is yeah, because your brain's like your brain's not wired to help you thrive, but it's wired to help you survive. So when you do get more specific what you're doing with these students, when you get more specific with your fears and like imagining all that could go wrong and like being more specific with wait, why am I actually scared of the camera? Yeah, I think it's gonna hurt me, or like jump out at me or something, and then you realize, oh, that's not actually gonna happen, and your brain switches out of fear into like strategy.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yeah, yeah, and you kind of break the loop.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

You were doing that with them. Yes, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

It was really cool. They kind of shun like shun shun. Yeah, it was yeah, it was really cool. And they did they probably did the best work I've seen them do, actually. Because I would get like, yeah, that was great, but like you're I know that you're so you're out so outside of this scene because I know what you're thinking. I know you're thinking, oh, Chris is watching, or like, oh, they did a better job or whatever, you know. Yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, no, it's so true. You can be so talented, but if that like mindset stuff is getting in the way, yeah, yeah. You won't be shining as brightly as you could be.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah, and you really have to be prepared for those moments on a set because there's no time for that. No, that's kind of what they're paying you for to trust that you are willing or you've developed the skills to turn it on. Yeah, turn it on and and get through those tricky moments and and adapt quickly, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah, it's good. There's so much more than talent required, I feel like in this industry. Yeah. That mindset stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

But I also love the idea of like just not taking it so seriously. Yeah, taking the job seriously, but not yourself.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yes, yes, yeah. I take my work very seriously, but like playing is very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Having fun. Yeah. Like I even loved watching your tapes for Liam Gallagher in Betterman. Oh, thank you. Um, I love that film, by the way. How good is it? I was bawling my eyes out. But like so in awe of like how like creative and imaginative it is. Um, but I love your tape for that. Like, that's so creative in itself. Like you're you got the fake cigarette, you're like walking around the room, which is so good.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:14

Was that um handheld? Someone was that just holding it.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

No, no, it was a tripod on an iPhone, you know, on a tiny little, you know, that little iPhone tripod thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

I loved how you've got space. I loved that, I loved it so much.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

Yeah, I really I wanted to do it in the lounge room because it was the the script said he walks through his labyrinth of a living room or something.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

But my friend that went to NIDA, they watched the audition, they're like, Why did you do that? Why did you walk around? Don't you're not supposed to do that, you're not supposed to flip the cigarette. Break the rules. Why'd you wear the jacket? I'm like, nah, nah, man. You booked the job. I'm doing this my way.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

You don't need to go to NIDA to work as an actor.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

You know, we're talking about personality as well. Yeah. How much, how much you can show your personality without being in the room by the risks that you take, yeah, you know, within responsible um boundaries there. Calculated risks. Yeah, without without being a wanker about it.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah, or like doing something so stupid, like I'm not gonna stand on my head just because I can. Like it's gonna elevate the character, elevate the world, and like make sense to that, yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, yeah, but also shows them that you are bringing your creative ideas to it and your playfulness and that you are you can actually be serious about being silly, you know?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yeah, yes, yes, and like even like improvising in a scene and stuff can show that flexibility and improvising within the world as again, not just saying like weird shit to be funny, yeah, you know, it shows that you're you understand the world we're in, the character.

Commercials And Showing Up Through Grief

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Absolutely. You've done a lot of commercials, have you? I have. Did I see you in a Gavascon ad?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

No, but that's Sky Becker, who's my friend.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Dude, I was in the gym this morning.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

That's so funny. And I was like, No, people have said that before. I think multiple people. We have the same Bob.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

And um I did my first amateur musical with Sky.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Shout out to Skye, yeah. Well, I hope her heartburn is cleared up.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Oh, me too.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

But you did you did a really amazing commercial. Oh, I can't remember what it was for, but you have this amazing like heart-shaped hairstyle. Yes, and it's very wacky and very silly, and it looks so much. That was very silly. Yeah, looks so much.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

That was for Newcastle Permanent, a bank.

unknown 38:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

But it was like Newcastle Permanent, something about like pleasing both your head and your heart. Yes, yeah. So like I had the wigs to be the brain and then the heart. Those wigs were painful, man. That was actually like really hard.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Because I just had a crazy headache all day. Oh, and we had to change the wigs like every shot. And so they're stabbing my brain to get it done quick. That it like takes like 20, 25 minutes to change the wigs, and we had like five minutes each time.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

So um, it was crazy. It was three locations, one day, a dog, green screen, body double. Like it was a lot.

SPEAKER_02 39:02

It was amazing. It was a lot. What are the is that like your favorite ad that you've done? Or what about the one where you're flying?

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Well, that was that was a I have a crazy story about that one. So I um like going back to mental health, I found out my friend had died the day I got the callback for that job.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

And I was like in a ball on the floor crying. Yeah. I was like, I can't do this call back. But then I did somehow.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

And then if you've seen the ad, I'm like screaming and so happy. Yeah. Like, um, because I won the lottery or whatever. And so I just went in the room and like I had to jump around as if I was getting blown out of a cannon, shot out of a cannon. Um, so it was just like a moment of like locking in, doing the job, and then as soon as I left, I was just like crying again. But um, I was like, no, my friend would want me to like keep going and show up anyway. So I did, and then a week later, I w they flew me to Brisbane for that one. And I was just like in a hotel room by myself for the first time. Yeah. Like it was a go, go, go week. And I was just like, oh fuck, my friends died. And like, and then having to turn up on set and just like keep it together. I didn't tell anyone because I was like, if I did, I'd just be a mess. Yeah. I'm sure. But I um locked in. It was a great day. It was a great day. And then um, yeah, his funeral was the next week.

SPEAKER_02 40:27

Oh my god, I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

That's a tricky one, eh? Because we're talking about saying no to things. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

But then, you know, doing what's right for you in whatever that situation may be.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

For sure. I think. But also, you know, as you said, like your friend would have wanted you to go and enjoy the job and enjoy the day, you know, enjoy the opportunity. But how did you get yourself into the headspace?

SPEAKER_00 40:49

I think I was still very much in denial though, that he was even gone. Um on the day, I just had to really trust myself that I was capable of doing the thing. And it was it was probably like the biggest job I'd done at that time, because it was quite a few years ago now, and um it was like all about me kind of thing. Like I was the one actor for the whole day with like this massive crew. I'd never worked with such a big crew, and um, I was in a different state, and I was, yeah, feeling so vulnerable, but I just um knew that I was capable of doing it, but yeah, like the grief hadn't properly like yeah kicked in yet at that time. I think if it was maybe a couple of weeks later, it would have been harder in a way. I don't know if you've experienced like grief in that way before or whatever, it's different for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Yeah, not that not that sort of grief. Not a friend.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

There was a lot to process and I was we then went into lockdown like straight away, pretty much after that, the second lockdown. And so that kind of made the grieving process really weird as well, because I was like, Oh my friend, he's just like down the coast with his family.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

And so, like again, I was like, my body was still kind of in denial for a long time because it didn't feel quite real. And then once lockdown was over and I was going back to dance class where I'd see him like multiple times a week, he wasn't there. That was really hard going back to dance class, actually. But there was there's a beautiful community in the like dance world, and I'd just like cry at the back of the class, and like people would understand what was happening and like we'd be there for each other. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

I think it's important to know what what you need in those moments as well in in terms of like where you're going or you know, what energy you're putting into your career and what energy you're putting into your own life and what energy you're putting into your own s yourself, yeah. And s even taking a little break from some of the the things that you deem important just to process for you know what you're going through. What you're actually going through as well. Yeah. Did you take a break from acting at all?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Well, it was kind of forced to because of lockdown. Oh yeah, yeah. But it was a really hard time in my life for other reasons as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

But um, like three months after that funeral, I went to another funeral that I shouldn't have been at.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

And then three months after that, another funeral, um, someone died like in an accident. So it was just like funeral after funeral, and I was just like, I don't like funerals anymore. Like even um a whole hunk of my extended family members died when I was like seven. And so like I feel like since I was a little little girl, like I've known that I could die tomorrow. And like I say that all the time to people. I'm like, I could die tomorrow. Like let's be actors, let's make um films and stuff. Oh man, yeah. But people are like, stop being so like morbid. I'm like, it's actually not.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

It's this positive existentialism or something.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

It's just the truth. Yeah. Um, and and I'm actually like so proud of the way that I have like I do have this zest for life because I am so aware of what a privilege it is to just be here.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Yeah. I was talking to this is this is not really that relevant, but I was talking to a director the other day.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

The guy that I'm working with at the moment, he's really young, and he was talking about how he's he has these moments where he's like, I have to do this right now because we're only gonna, you know, do get to do this once kind of thing. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that's kind of how I feel. I mean, I've you know had this whole history with all the crap that I put myself through. And but I'm like, yeah, I have to make movies, I have to act, I have to be creative because I'm like, I'm dying. Like we are all right. We don't have much time. We gotta do this right now. I gotta, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

No, but thank you for sharing about you like your story too, the way you've um shared about that. Because it's I feel like we can feel so alone in like our struggle, yeah, in whatever shit we're going through or putting ourselves through. I know we're not alone.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

I don't yeah, I think I think that's really important to know. It's it's not weird to have gone through difficult times, you know. It is isolating, I think. But there there are so many people out there that can relate, you know.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

And even like um going back to social media, like it's very easy to feel like people don't relate because social media often is just the highlight reel, you know. But no, talk to you talk to your mates, yeah, talk to people who love you.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Um because we're all we're all going through our own shit.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Yeah, and it's and it's a well it's been a hard time since Bowie died since 2016. Yes, it all went downhill from there, 10 years ago, but but it's been a it's a particularly hard time now, I think. And it's kind of you know, you know, in regard to what we were talking about before, we we we don't even know how we're supposed to feel about everything because we're so torn between this like survivor's guilt and yes, coping with how it's impacting us ourselves. It is just a it is an especially difficult time at the moment, and I think we need to be understanding, we need to stick together during this time and also understand that everyone's gonna cope with these things so differently. Yes, you know, some people are gonna back off completely, yeah, and some people are going to post every single day about it and and let people know about it, which is also great, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Yes, like making art and staying hopeful

Reframing Rejection And Building Community

SPEAKER_00 46:17

is an act of resistance as well. It doesn't mean that you like aren't affected by what's happening in the world, it's like we can again have both.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yeah, yes. Art always has been resistance, yeah, and it that's a beautiful thing. And we we're allowed to bring joy into the world.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yes, we are. They don't want us to stop us. That's right. They're trying to stop us, that's and they're succeeding in some ways.

SPEAKER_02 46:41

They are, and the guilt is part of the success of that. For sure, you know, and I think continuing to fight through that and say, Oh, I'm gonna do it anyway, and you can't silence all of us. Um what's that um Idol's album, Joy as an act of resistance?

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Yes, yes, same thing. Joy is an act of resistance, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

We were talking about before the you know, remaining a human outside of your acting, you know. Do you think people put pressure on themselves in this industry to reach some kind of level at some point in their life? For sure. You know? Where are you at with that?

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Where am I at with that? Yeah, I definitely believe some people do tie lots of their identity, lots of their self-worth to the jobs that they book or that they don't book. And that can be very detrimental because that rejection after rejection after rejection, if you're viewing it as that and as a personal rejection, that can like destroy your mental health. And I've worked so hard on my like own self to be like, actually, no, I'm so much more than the jobs I do as an actor. Yeah. Um, because I do audition all the time and don't book lots of them. And the normal average human wouldn't understand the amount of like resilience that it takes to be an actor and how important that is. And like, yes, you can feel sad about like not booking a job or whatever, but that um ability to then pick yourself back up and keep going is um is a skill, I think. Is it definitely a skill that you can get better at, and so that recovery time between the rejection um can be faster as well, and not have to feel so personal, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Yes. Rejection is such a loaded word though.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Yes, yeah. I don't even really use the re word rejection. I don't know if I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

I I've never on I've never thought of it like that. No, but everyone calls it that. They're like, I got rejected, it was an unsuccessful audition.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

I'm like, no, maybe you like actually booked something in the future because of this one amazing audition. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah, it's so true. Because I've always seen it as like this constant rolling thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's never one and done, like when it comes to it.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Unless you unless I mean I understand there are certain jobs that I'm like, that I'm perfect for that. That's gotta be, or you know, it pays really well.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

You're like, I really would like $28,000. Yes, please. I would love I love money. Yes. And I want that. Yeah, okay. So I mean, there are certain jobs that are much more disappointing to lose, but yeah, but as a whole, like this idea that you're getting rejected after rejection after rejection is I I guess it's an easy trap to fall into in your head. But really, yeah, it is it is just you know, i experience after experience, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 49:30

And it's the like the auditions is the work in and of itself. Like it's it doesn't have to be a yes or a no answer after an audition. Yeah. Um, because it's just you, you have the role for that half an hour, you're putting your tape down or whatever. Yeah. And I think I've come to learn to trust the timing of the your life even more as well, I guess. And and knowing that, like, no, if that job was actually meant for me, then I would have gotten it. And that would have been a beautiful thing. But if this other person got it, really well done for them. Like, I'm happy for them. Yeah. And the more we celebrate the success of others, the more we're actually opening ourselves up for our own success, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 50:12

Oh, totally. Yeah, you can't be you can't be isolating yourself from anyone. Like, we we are all in this together.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah, and there's room for us all.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

There absolutely, yeah, and also we can make our own stuff, yes, you know, and we should, and we should, we should, yeah, yeah. I I can understand like when people feel like they need little moments of validation that they're on the right track, and I think that can be really, really draining for people. Yes, because when you are it is such an isolated pursuit, and I think it's important to stay active within your community, yes, and that's a way to support each other and actually talk about the things that we are all probably going through, but we don't realise we're going through. Yes, you know, it's kind of why I started this a little bit. Yeah, so we can have honest conversations about what it's really like without just the Hollywood gloss. Yeah. You can just like I'll just cuddle this whatever I'm fucking saying right now out, and you and you will interrupt me with this brilliant thing that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Um, I'm also creating a group program for actors that will have so much community.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Oh, great.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Um, because I do, yeah, I'm a it can be so lonely. Yeah. Like even I like you're a one-man band here with your podcast, but I'm like, I run my own business, and that's just me as well. So that can be lonely in a way.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Um, but no, so I'm starting a group program that's all about coming together and being a team and learning more about your mindset and how that can really level up your career and actually treating your career as a business, yeah. Um becoming the CEO of your career instead of just trying to do an audition every now and then. Yeah. Um, there's so much more that's in your control that can be um helping you succeed, and just putting it all into practice and um doing like monthly masterclasses too, where we you can bring a scene or whatever. Yeah, that's um but yeah, so like three calls a month, all online, community access, like you can put your questions in the group whenever awesome, yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

And there'll be like bonus um masterclasses with like industry professionals coming in and um trainings and stuff. So I'm I'm really excited about the community aspect of it too.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Yeah, that's something how do people get involved in that?

SPEAKER_00 52:23

It'll start in May, which I'm really excited about.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

Excellent.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Well, people can keep an eye on that for social media, yeah, hopeful goose creative, yeah, on s on the Instagrams.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

And I'm gonna have like a free masterclass as well soon, which I'm really excited about, sharing more about um the tools and stuff that are helping me in my um career and also other actors' careers, like my clients, um my students. But yeah, I'm really excited about I don't think something like this actually exists because there's so many acting classes where you can just go practice your technique and all of that. Yeah, but um I believe that there is so much more involved in a successful long acting career than just talent and those skills. Like, yeah, so it's all about strategy and mindset stuff too.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

And also community. And community is so important, you know. I think that's what's that's what was missing for such a long time because it does tend to get competitive, yes, and people's reaction to that is holding other people back, yes, you know, um gatekeeping and ladder climbing and treading on people's toes, and you know, it's it's like it's my gig, not yours kind of. I hate that so much. And honestly, the community I don't know what it's like in Sydney, but the community here has become so tight and so supportive, and I think that's what's actually helping the Adelaide acting community bloom is the support that we actually have for each other. Yeah, and what you're doing with with your business is I think it's so perfect. It's so and yeah, there's not enough of it. Yeah, or there maybe there isn't any of it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

But we have to support each other.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

We do, yeah. It doesn't have to be a competition. And when you do support each other, that's when the real growth actually happens, when you're constantly lifting each other up. Yes. Especially for those times when like it's hard to keep going, yeah, you'll be able to because you have the accountability and the support of these other people around you. But yeah, like even I've run a couple of um, I've created something called the TV C formula as well, which is all about um TVCs and um crushing those auditions using things that are completely within your control. But I've recently developed that into a group class too, and even seeing like that's just like a three-week long thing, but even seeing the community in just like three weeks of time together was so beautiful, and everyone was so encouraging to each other, and that made me like so emotional seeing like everyone in the chat being like, oh my gosh. Um yeah, so encouraging.

Programs Coming Up And Final Thanks

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Where do you find the time to do all this? That's crazy. That's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Um, it's there, the time's there.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Yeah, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

I do work very hard for my actors, which which but I love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

So good.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

I have to put boundaries in because I would just work till 3 a.m. every night on like building stuff and like creating trainings and stuff for my actors because I do just love it so much.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Oh my god, some exciting stuff coming up for you for Hopeful Goose. For Hopeful Goose. What about you though? Where do you where do you see yourself going from here? You know, parallel to the business. Yes. But for Madeline for Madeline, the actor or the writer and director. Yes. The multi-hyphenite.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Mm-hmm. The multi-hyphenite. Um, I would love to um just keep working as an actor and um making beautiful connections with human beings, um, and telling stories that are hopeful um and silly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Wait, did you tell me where the name came from?

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Oh no, it's just from my outlook on life, really. Stay silly. Yeah, stay hopeful.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Okay, I could have worked that out.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Yeah. It was very I was like, should I have a business name that's more serious? I was like, no, fuck no.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

No way, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

But yeah, I'd love to keep making my own work as well and working with like other amazing female filmmakers as well.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Um, that's been the best so far. I'm about to um be a lead in a comedy series that I was the writing team on as well. Oh, amazing. So that's been really fun, like working with other female writers. Yep. So that's happening in next year. Yeah, it's called The Detention Diaries. It started out as a student short film many years ago.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

Really?

SPEAKER_00 56:30

And then um it's just progressed, and now everyone's graduated and like making amazing stuff, and we're like, let's actually make this a series.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

How good?

SPEAKER_00 56:39

So um that's happening very soon. And yeah, I just want to keep bringing joy.

SPEAKER_02 56:46

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Well, you're doing spreading the light. You are doing that. Because yeah, life's hard. Life's hard, but there's joy out there and hope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

Um, well, I just want to say that I'm really grateful that you hit me up and that you made the time to come and it worked perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

It was so good. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

It was so nice to meet you and get to know you properly. And community, it's here, it's happening. Here we are. Live in the studio. And um, I hope you enjoy our little city.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

Thank you. I do. I call it Madelaide. I call it Madelaide now.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

Oh, and well, it is when you're here, it's Madelaide. Madelaide. Yeah, no, this is awesome. Thanks so much for it.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Thank you, Chris.

unknown 57:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Well, there we go. How lovely was that, Mad, your mad dog. Thank you so much for reaching out. Uh, it was really bloody lovely to meet you and hang out with you. Um, after the chat, uh, I got to meet her very lovely boyfriend, Michael, Michael Giglio, who's an incredibly talented actor and musician in his own right. He came in to check out the studio, and yeah, we obviously broed out and were like best friends after that. And that night they invited me to his show at the fringe, which was called That's Me in the Corner, which is a very funny kind of um cabaret style show about life as a pub musician, which was obviously very relatable for me. And it was a lovely day and a lovely night. I made two new friends, and that's why I freaking love doing this show. Uh, please check out Madeline's socials at Hopefulgoose Creative as well as at Madeline Whiten. You can also check out her brand new website, which is hopefulgoosecreative.com. It's really cool, easy to navigate, and it'll tell you everything you need to know about her. So check that out, hopefulgoosecreative.com. I'll drop everything in the description. Um, yeah, hit her up. Reach out to her, she's super nice. What else? Um, don't forget to subscribe to this podcast, follow the show on Instagram at go pluckyourselfpod, and share this episode with a few friends. The best way to get the show out there is word of mouth. Also sign up to the Patreon, patreon.com slash go pluck yourselfpod. Theme music by my amazing cousin Nick Gunn, aka DJ Got Bangers from Crazy K Fame. What would Blind Boy say here? It'd say we're able to see you. Swim with a mermaid, genufleck to a goose. My name is Chris Gunn, and hey, go pluck yourself.