Books4Guys - Gina Riley (Qualified Isn't Enough)

Gina shares her insights on effective communication, personal branding, and career development, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, strategic networking, and continuous learning in today's job market.

https://ginarileyconsulting.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Gina, we are already bringing the energy to our conversation as we get this started. And it is uh I'm so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast, Gina. I uh really appreciate it and uh excited to talk with you today.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I am so excited to be here. This podcast is after my heart. I have two young men in my life, my two sons. And uh one is a big reader, the other's not a big reader. But um, I think getting books out in front of uh guys is such a good deal.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Well, maybe after he sees his mom on this really cool podcast, he'll start uh, he'll be motivated to read some more of the recommendations we have.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

But no, Gina, super cool. As I was saying, I'm I'm personally like very invested and interested in this conversation because as someone in the recruiting space, and just to share more about your background, executive career coach, part of the Forbes Coaches Council, you created the career velocity system. You've been HR and Exec Search Expert, and now you have your book, Qualified Isn't Enough, which I couldn't agree with more, as I work with candidates a lot and this this job market and and the way hiring has changed over really the uh very near past, but over the last five to ten years for sure. Um, Gina, just share more about just just your story, your career, and how it has progressed to you writing this book.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, the quick highlights, real, is my foundation is all about communication. Goes back to high school when I was involved with leadership development programs, and really where I started to find my calling was how do we communicate better so we connect better, so we build better relationships and ultimately to get what we want in life, right? And so that that thread carries all the way through what I studied in college, all of my HR jobs, and kind of where I am today. So I worked at Intel for a decade. I was a recruiter, I was an HR business partner, I did training and development programs where I created training and delivered that. Um, I've been an executive search consultant as well for talents group, executive search. It's both a boutique search firm. And then I have my own company as well. And the reason why I created qualified isn't enough was I have this concept with career velocity. It's a nine-step model to help people, not just executives, people move through a career transition with greater ease, if you will. And I didn't see anything like it on the market. And I started working with people seven, eight years ago. And the real issue for everyone, Chris, you're gonna get this, is they cannot tell their story. And then they can't tell their stories succinctly. And so they miss opportunities because they're not clear about what they do, where they're headed, and how and how and what they want to get referred for. And so that is this book helps people with my frameworks. It's not a bunch of blah, blah, blah tips. It is literally my coaching frameworks. And if people want to put in the work and read this book and do it, they will get more traction than their competition.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

No, I appreciate you sharing that overview because you said a couple things where I'm sitting here going, like, yep, yep. You know, you mentioned networking, communication, relationships. Those have never been more important in this day and time. I I work with a lot of people myself. They're like, well, I applied to 50 jobs. I'm like, that's not gonna get you anywhere anymore. And then the other word that was coming to mind that you were talking about personal brand uh has become such a big deal. How people see you on your LinkedIn, how you share your story. Yeah, I know a lot of people, that's again, it's just where we're at in in this day and time. I know it's super challenging for people who've never had to do that before, who have never had to reach out and connect with people or or spend a lot of effort to go to places and shake hands, but all of that stuff is so important. It's never been more important. But I like how you have an actual process that can be followed. It's not just a bunch of, like you said, blah, blah, here's some uh, you know, higher nuggets that maybe you figure out what I'm talking about or not. You actually have a clear, defined plan where, hey, if you read this, follow these steps, like Chad GBT. Just read my book, take these steps, apply it. This is gonna help you get better traction.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

A hundred percent. Absolutely. Here's the thing is and you coming from recruitment, one of the toughest questions for people to answer and then land successfully is the tell me about yourself answer. Because you're gonna get asked that whether you're networking, you're taking an informational, you know, conversation, you're on the first-line recruiter call, or you're in front of an interviewing panel with the hiring, hiring team. You have to be able to quickly do that highlights real. And what makes me super aggravated and something that I have addressed in this book is the tell me about yourself answer is not a catchy marketing phrase and it's not an elevator pitch. An elevator pitch is me feeling very salesy in a 60 to 90 second sound bite. I don't do that, job seekers. Instead, working through chapters one through five of my book, what I do is I help you build brick by brick brick. Who are you as a person? What is your leadership approach? What are the themes and patterns of your career? And what are some of those key successes? And it culminates in the tell me about yourself, which is a quick highlights reel, but it's three to five minutes. If your early career and listening to the podcast, you know, three, three, three and a half minutes might do it. That might be perfect. If you're a senior leader and you've had four major careers within the career, it could be five, but I would not go over five. But it this is doable. But what you're trying to answer is here's where I sit in the ecosystem. And if you're comparing me against four other equally qualified people to be talking with you, here's why I stand out.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love how you break it down based on where you're at in your career. Because yeah, if you've only been working a couple of years, probably don't need a 10-minute answer.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

You never, never need a 10-minute answer to tell me about yourself. And in the very first line of my book says something like this, Chris, because I don't have it memorized, which is I asked him, tell me about yourself. I was running a CEO search. I was the one working with the board of directors. I own the whole process. And I asked him, I need you to tell me about yourself in five minutes or less, because in the hour we have, I have eight skill-based questions to ask you so that I can compare you against the other people I'm speaking to. He spoke for 20 minutes on the tell me about yourself. So I only got to maybe four, five of those questions, and he was a delightful human being, really lovely, but I couldn't put him forward because he didn't have the executive presence or the ability to read the room when I clearly gave him defined parameters.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm laughing because obviously, like when you're in this space and some people don't understand, but when you're talking with people, uh, it's a long time. You're talking with a lot of candidates, and uh, but every now and then you do get someone that that goes a little overboard and really you start to check out and you're doing other work while you're just letting them kind of ramble on. And it's uh not not a better way to get yourself out of the job consideration um more shortly.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

It happens really very, very quickly, and that's what people don't understand. And then they dial it up and start talking more or talking faster. So talking more is filling a void that doesn't maybe need to be filled, you know, and then talking faster reduces our executive presence because speaking more slowly and deliberately helps amp up our trustworthiness.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Yeah. Talk a little bit, Gina, just about because you're you're very passionate in this space. You've worked in it a long time, and now you're coaching uh, you know, more one-on-one clients. And again, the book's really good because you can impact more people, more so than you could do just one-on-one, but people can read your book and take something away from that too. But talk about just some of the positive things that you have experienced in your career as a recruiter or in your coaching business that just leads you to feeling fulfilled and helping others. Because I know on, you know, I people always ask me, like, what's so great about you know, recruiting space? And I'm like, there's nothing better than finding someone that perfect job. And they're like, Thank you, Chris. Like, this is the one I've been waiting on. And so obviously you can make money doing what we do, but the people aspect of it is also very rewarding. But talk about just some of the things you personally have enjoyed in your career and and again, why you are continuing to advance what you do in this space.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Absolutely. This is a very easy question for me to answer. Um, the best days in my job and in my work, and it doesn't matter if I'm working with one of my son's college graduate friends who are trying to figure out their next, or if it's a VP of, you know, whatever, um, the best days are when we have worked through that, like I said, the the unique value proposition work, which is that chapters one through five, and we unpack what makes them unique in this whole job search ecosystem. And sometimes I get a well of emotion, even from grown men who are grabbing for tissue, because what they tell me, Chris, is I feel seen for the first time. I feel like I have words now to describe what does distinguish me. Because when we start a few weeks prior, they're like, I have no idea what makes me unique. I don't understand why any of this on my resume would make me stand out. And when we go through it, I can find it, Chris. It's I can find it. And I know how to see it and reflect it back in people, and I know how to help them shrink it down so they can articulate it. And when they get that well of emotion, I know that I've touched a life.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah, I love that. Well, it shows your genuineness and care in trying to help. I know also in the space, there's a lot of transactional conversations that happen, and and people when they're looking to shift their career or find another job, you know, if they don't have someone there like yourself to walk the line with them in a genuine and very helpful way. I know a lot of people can get very frustrated with talking with a lot of recruiters or or not getting feedback and not knowing, knowing how they need to pivot to do better in the next interview, or you know, what what job do they really want, you know? So it's really impactful the work that you're doing in and going the extra mile and really, again, showing the care and genuineness to help them. I I definitely, the way you talk about that, I'm like, that means so much to to individuals who are trying to take that leap or figure out their next steps. It is such a huge deal.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

It is, and that's my that's my life's work, and that's how I can thread it back to age 15 or 16. You know, me growing up, maybe not feeling seen or heard, or, you know, wanting to stand out for something, but not knowing how to do that in an effective way. And it, you know, it took years of study and practice and dialogue. And now, you know, I get to use some of those skills even with my own son. He's 23, he's a college grad, and he's trying to respond to a CEO's email. And he's like, What do I say? So I sound like I'm not just 23 who can't put a sentence together. You know, what do I need to do? And even navigating these very simple touch points makes all the difference. By the time he got through multiple interactions and a little contract job that he had, the CEO at the end was like, Thank you for all your professionalism in your exchanges with us. That's I mean, that what an ego boost. But we it all comes down to communication.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Yeah, yeah. And hopefully he was like, Thanks, mom.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

For sure. He's like, I don't I learn more from you and dad on contract negotiations and communication than I did in five years of school, engineering school.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yeah, no, that's incredible. That's incredible. Well, Gina, did you ever think that you would write a book one day or to have some published work out there to help in this space? Even though I know you've been working in it for a long time. Did you ever imagine that you'd put a book together?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Not initially. No. When I first started on this journey eight or so years ago, I read 20 books. I listened to 120 podcasts. I'm a podcast fan, Chris. And then I synthesized everything I learned from all of that. And then I started to build the coaching program, which became career velocity, the nine-step model. And then I got to that place where I had a burning desire to publish because there isn't anything like this in the ecosystem. If you want to learn how to write a resume, you can go get that everywhere. Books and for free, right? You can get stuff on interview prep. My book isn't about how to write a resume. A resume is not going to get you your job. You have to have a resume. It is a necessary evil, but what most people are missing is the entire process of building up the tell me about yourself that you carry with you forward forever until you work into your 70s, maybe. So when I looked at the ecosystem, it was kind of making me angry when I would just see these same trite, regurgitated baloney about like, if you just do this one thing on LinkedIn, if you build it, they will come. It is not true because being qualified is not enough. You have to do all the other things that I have in my book. And by the way, what I would do is point people to chapters seven and eight. Chapter eight is all about job search strategy. It's all these different ideas about how you can, you know, get referrals and connect with people in order to open up opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah. Yeah. No, that leads me to a two-part question for you, Gina, because you were talking about like some of the frustrating things you have seen, like on LinkedIn, people say do this, and you know. What are in this day and time, what are some things that do really frustrate you with the current way that companies hire or the current way that people apply to jobs? But then the flip set, what are some positive things that you see from the way that we go about things now? Or is there nothing that's one or the other?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Boy, I'm gonna have to struggle. I'm I'll struggle with the positive. I'll go with the challenge. For the job seeker who is listening to this right now, and they're thinking what you said earlier. I applied to 50 jobs. You know, I applied to 200 jobs over the last three months, and I haven't heard back from any of them, and I was qualified for all of them, right? Here's the thing: there's so many ATS systems out there, we probably can't even count that high. And they all are different. They're all programmed differently. It's possible the recruiters who are using those systems don't even know all the things that in the infrastructure that make it work. And that's not their fault. It, you know, they buy packages from the companies, they modify them, they patch them, they keep plugging in things over the years. And the the thing is, if you are applying with the hundreds of people applying to things that they think they're qualified for, or maybe someone will just give me a chance, you have to realize that the those systems are completely clogged up, full of applicants. The recruiters who are skilled know how to go through that as fast as possible to bubble up a few that they'll start talking with and narrow into an interview process. Your least great chance of getting seen is through an applicant tracking system, not because the machine is blocking you. It's because everyone else is clogging it up. You may or may not have an aligned resume in the first place, and the and the recruiters know what they're looking for. So, what is the best way to get seen and heard? You've got to get referrals and you've got to have conversations. A lot of people have a sick stomach when they hear the word networking. It's way bigger than that. It's way bigger than networking. This is about having informational conversations to gather more and more research, researching, using AI to do your research and coming up with hypothesis about why you have a market fit that's necessary and then positioning it. So, what do I dislike right now, Chris? We have way too many applicants who really need jobs. We have overwhelm recruiters and slimmed down staffing teams. We have misalignment with what job seekers expect from recruiters. Learn about what recruiters do, folks. They are not there to find you a job. They are not paid to find you a job. So there's all these challenges within the ecosystem. Now there's one more thing. Hiring teams and hiring managers are not sensitive. They're about doing a timely process. So the recruiter can only do what they can do. They cannot make a hiring manager move. And you have to realize that all these things are happening within the human ecosystem. That hiring manager may have just lost a family member and they're going to be out for two weeks because they're at a funeral. You don't know. Like there's all these things. I mean, I could go down the list and I see you nodding. So what's frustrating? Long processes, ridiculously long processes, inefficiencies with because of technology, and also misalignment with job seekers thinking that they know better or listening to bad advice.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

What's going well? Here's what I would say. When you get referrals, it is your better chance of getting through a process efficiently. Even still, I have worked with a lot of leaders who have been referred and they are preferred. And one of them 26 interviews later, 26, Chris, for a CTO job. And they asked for the 26th one, and he said, No, thank you. I'm out. And then they made him the offer. So these silly things are happening that totally destroy people's confidence. 26.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

That just made me like, ugh. Yeah. No, and I I asked the positive because in this space, again, there there's positive moments, but there is a lot of moving parts and a lot of moving pieces that have to go right for a candidate and a job to match up to where it all works out and you get the offer you want and the acceptance and you start within two weeks. You know, there's a lot to get to that point. And it does take a long time. It takes a long time. It's frustrating for everyone. The hiring manager wants someone to contribute on his team sooner than later. The recruiter wants to fill the job sooner than later so they can get paid. The candidate wants to work, you know, they don't want to wait any longer. So it's it's frustration all around. But it but I was just curious to know because things have changed a lot, even like we talked about in the last five years, just processes have changed. I mean, four years ago you couldn't hire enough recruiters, and now your teams are lacking a lot more than what they had, and the processes have extended. And so, but again, I think that's so important for what you do and being able to give that information to someone who's going through that process so they can better understand every part of it. And maybe they're not thinking of certain things, but you can provide them that in information where it kind of makes sense. Okay, I see where this needs to be fixed. I need to see the whole process so that I understand it, and you provide that information information, which is great because a lot of people don't. Um, I don't have time to tell a candidate every moving piece that it has to happen. Like you said, I it's not my job to do that, but they want it, they want all the answers.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Well, because you're one of the few human touch points that they may even encounter over many, many months. And here's the thing that here's the advice I have for the job seeker who is super frustrated about communication, which is you need to own the communication that you can control. For example, you're working with a recruiter like Chris who is discussing an amazing opportunity. You may or may not be qualified for it, but let's say you bubble up to the top, right? But Chris needs to have a couple of their people in the pipeline to present and discuss with a client, right? So at this point, you don't know what the process is, you don't know the timing or anything. So ask, ask. So, hey, Chris, how long do you anticipate the process will go? How many people are you fielding right now to present to your client? And how long do you think it will take based on what you know about all the key stakeholders? Then you, Chris, can say, Gosh, based on what I've got going right now and what I know about this team, they're kind of slow moving. It could be two to three weeks. Okay, great. But as the candidate, I'm not gonna hear from you in the two to three weeks. You're busy and you don't have any information for me and you don't owe me anything. So what could I do? Hey, Chris, in about three weeks, I'm gonna have a tickler on my calendar. I'm gonna circle back to you and check in. Again, you, Chris, don't owe me anything other than being kind and saying, hey, this is where we are in the process. Thanks for checking in. Now I now I have controlled what I can.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I love that. I love that. I love that you are coaching candidates to be active in the process from their side. But I promise I'll let you know as soon as I do. Because I know how much candidates want that, and they don't get it from a lot of recruiters. So I try to stand out and being overly communicative. But it really does help when they also take some initiative. Because sometimes I forget, and it never bothers me when they shoot me an email or a text just saying, Hey, it's been a week, haven't heard from you. You know, any updates? Yeah, oh yeah, so sorry, nothing yet. But it's and it's nothing negative, but it's really good to incorporate yourself into the process to help your recruiter out. Uh, or maybe, maybe there's other things that have gone on, and it's a reminder for them to go get that feedback for you, you know, but be active in the process. I love that you coach people to do that.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Well, you can find out amazing information. Um, I've got a CFO candidate who's interviewing right now. He's never been a CFO, so it's high stakes. Like his whole preparation process, he's put in the 40 hours as I talk about in the book. At the executive levels, if you're not putting in 40 hours of worth of research, you don't want it bad enough. I'm just gonna say. So he's going through this process, and I've talked about controlling your own communication. And sure enough, said, Hey, ask how many candidates are in the top pool going into the final rounds and how many weeks it's gonna take. And he found out three more candidates, but those three are two weeks out. And he came back, he goes, You were right, it's two weeks and it's several candidates. And I said, Now you can manage your emotions. Now it's not about you, it's waiting.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah.

unknown 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

And he smiled and laughed, and you could tell there was more ease in what he was doing because he wasn't like, Oh my gosh, I wonder when the recruiter is gonna call me.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah. Yep. No, I love that. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. Gina, another question for you. I've got just a couple more here, but what has been, what has been the most, some of the most rewarding things about your career and what you've been able to do? Is it how many people you've helped? Is it writing and getting this book out there? What are some things you're really proud of that you've accomplished in the recruiting space and in your professional career?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Gosh, I guess the highlights real would be if I'm if I'm dialing back. First is making a choice to like double down on myself. So when I was at Intel and I talk about this in some of the things that I write, I got stuck. I was a recruiter and then I managed the intern program in Oregon for Intel, which was the largest program at that time. It was, I hired 500 interns in one year and managed the programming for that. It was a really, really big deal. But I wanted to be an HR business partner. And so I was told by all my mentors at Intel at that time, you had to have a master's degree to be at the elbow of one of those GMs or VPs. And so it took me a couple of years and a hard head to get through, but I finally went back and I got the master's because that's what I wanted. And I think a lot of job seekers need to hear things like that. Sometimes you have to go do hard things that take a while to get to the next level. Maybe it's a stretch assignment that you're not paid anything extra for. Maybe it's a lateral move that you're not making any extra money for, but you're building a toolkit that helps get you to the next level. So one thing is I would say doing the hard things. Another is part of my unique career story is I took 15 years away from the workforce, which was hard. I'm a type A go-getter to raise my two sons who turned out really well. So I feel like I did a good job. But when I re-entered the ecosystem and I got back on LinkedIn and I was recruiting, what I found joy in is helping a board of directors navigate a really difficult, you know, job search process, interview process to choose their next CEO that we're going to impact not just a couple hundred people in an organization, but thousands and thousands in a community. That's a big deal, you know, and communicating with them and getting them through that in a way they feel, you know, cared for and that they're doing it right and doing it well. And then with all my learnings, I think what I would say I'm most proud of is becoming an author. I didn't, I could not have foreseen that. And I didn't call myself a writer until recently, but I'm 25 Forbes Coaches Council articles in. And I've probably written about a hundred articles total. And, you know, getting on video on LinkedIn. That was really hard. You know, shooting video and going public. And then writing this book is a big deal. I mean, it is it is my legacy, and I'm all about making sure people have an opportunity to bring out their unique value proposition. Because we all have one. I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah. No, I love that, Gina. You have a lot to be proud of. You've done some really cool things. And I love that you mentioned just doing hard work because I think a lot of people in this day when we have a lot of automation and things that can make things easier in our lives, it's still good old fashioned grinding, hard work, doing things that are challenging that get you to the places that you want to get to, and just head down, focus, and go get it. And and you did that. And so that's a message I love people to share on this podcast is hey, here's what I wanted. Here's what I did to go get it and made it happen. You know, it wasn't easy. It was there were challenges, but we we got it done. So I really appreciate that you shared that because I love when people do share the things that they've accomplished and and what they're proud of. So very cool.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm gonna add a nuance to the storytelling on like going to get that master's degree. It wasn't just, I mean, any of us could go get a certification and assume that's gonna be the turnkey. It's not. The master's was was benchmark I had to hit, but then there's these little things that I did in between. Selectively picking the thesis that I was gonna work on, for example. So because I was, you know, still an Intel insider, I chose my topic was examining how Intel was integrating new acquisitions. So, and there were times that some of that didn't go very well because the culture integration is the hardest, not the technology integration. And so that put me in the line of sight of a lot of senior leaders I got access to to ask questions and build my entire project around. When I re-entered for my next job, I was able to take that wisdom and with those connections to land the next job. So you need to be strategic and deliberate about what you're doing and not assume that one AI certification is suddenly gonna cause you to get the dream job. It's not, it's relationships and communication.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yep. Relationships and communication. Can't say it enough. Gina, one more question for you because you are a published author now, and I'm always curious, just for books for guys' purposes, what people uh are reading or books that have had an impact on your life professionally or personally. And so I always ask what's a book or two that you've read throughout your life career that has had a big impact on you personally or professionally, and that you would recommend to others if asked?

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, I'm gonna the first go-to is something that we use within Talents Group, the company that I'm affiliated with for executive search. And we really like Patrick Lencioni's the ideal team player with the humble, hungry, smart framework. And the reason why we like this is when we're working with companies who are trying to find the right leader for their needs, their culture, all of it. What we're looking for are people who are, you know, humble, they can admit mistakes, that they lead with humility, that they're hungry for the job, that job, the job they have open, not the job they want to morph it to. And then that they're smart, not with their IQ, but with their EQ. Can they read the room? Can they, can they, um, does their communication span at all levels? Are they the are they the leader that we really want to work with? And so when we go and we coach these boards or leadership teams on what they're looking for, it's so much more than the job description and the technical aspects of the job, the technical or functional aspects of the job. It's about how's that leader going to show up and lead? And we go after the stories that prove it so that they feel confident they're making that choice. So we like the ideal team player.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah. Great, great choice. Great choice. Love that. Love that. Well, Gina, again, as someone who's in the space myself, this has been such a great conversation because I I'm able to know what you're what you're talking about and what you're putting out there and everything that you're saying is needed. And so it's very cool that you've put this plan together now in a book that people can go purchase and and take these steps as they progress in their career or look for a career shift or look for their next next move. And so, like I said, we've got qualified isn't enough on the website. We can't wait to spotlight you and your work even more. We'll put all the links to be able to get a hold of you if anyone's interested in coaching or conversations. And Gina, keep keep doing the good work because it has never been a time where it's been more needed. And so I'm sure you are uh extremely busy. So we appreciate you taking the time to do this, but very proud to have you on and the work you're doing, and just can't say thank you enough.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Well, thank you. I'm so I'm honored to be asked to be a part of your podcast, and it will go on my Spotify playlist.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Awesome. That's perfect. Well, thank you a lot, Gina. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Thanks.