Books4Guys - Lior Zelering

Lior Zelering is a versatile figure, excelling as an author, designer, product manager and digital media expert. He founded Masters Design Lab and has taught at various design institutions. With a diverse portfolio, Lior has written and edited books on design software, intellectual property protection, surfing, and more. He's also contributed to magazines and online publications covering design, multimedia, and skateboarding.

About Jeremy Carter: Swell of Hope and Fury

Jeremy Carter lives to chase the perfect wave—until a vicious encounter with school bullies catapults him into the wreckage of a crashed alien spacecraft. Amid the twisted metal and eerie silence, he uncovers a strange, glowing artifact that hums with untapped power.

Across town, a ruthless Russian mobster with an army of henchmen has learned of Jeremy’s discovery and will stop at nothing to seize the artifact for himself. Soon, what began as a personal quest for purpose explodes into an all-out turf war of shadowy espionage and high-octane showdowns.

The Swell of Hope and Fury is a pulse-pounding ride through roaring surf and neon-lit back alleys, where breakneck action and jaw-dropping twists collide. Jeremy and his crew of friends, joined by his trusted Kung Fu mentor, embark on a global adventure as they try to protect the artifact and restore balance to the universe.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Okay. Have you always lived there? Because I saw some of your your background and work. Were you over in England at all, or have you always been in Canada?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

I lived in South America for a while. Then we moved to Israel for a while, and then I moved to Canada. So I've been all around.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You're very well traveled in. That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Well, man, it's cool to have you on the podcast. And I've been looking at I've been looking at all your work, and you're a very unique author in the sense that you have different style of published works out there, some of it being more professional-based. And uh now you've got a fiction novel out there. And Liora, I'd love to just know just your story on just your your background, your how you grew up, your professional career, and really what led you to publishing work that's so different.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Yeah, uh well, thanks to you for uh, you know, first of all hosting me. That's really nice of you. And I really like your project as well. Really amazing project. Um, you know, I grew up in the uh era with no no internet, right? So I'm pretty old, right? I guess I was around 20 when the internet started to hit, maybe 1920. And you know, so I grew up with books, right? That's that's what we did. Now uh what I grew I was born in Venezuela and I lived there for a few years, like until I was six. Then I my parents moved to Israel. Then we moved back to Venezuela when I was, I think, uh on fifth grade or fourth grade. And that's when I got interested in skateboarding. You know, skateboarding was big then. Uh you got all kinds of movies and stuff, and uh there was a kind of like a really cool movie called the Gleaming the Cube. It was kind of like a skateboarding movie with uh with some fictional stuff in it and so on. And you know, by that time, you know, I started skateboarding and and I suddenly saw this kind of like skateboarding magazine in this kind of like shop, you know, and I and I and I purchased it, you know. I think it was the first time I bought a magazine. Of course I got those kids' magazines, right? But it was the first time I really chose what I want to read, right? You know, and then I kind of like started reading those magazines and I was fascinated, not just because of the you know, the thing itself, right? The skateboarding itself, the tricks and all the things, everything around it stylistically, and everything around it, you know, whether I I read every word, you know what I mean? Uh and I gotta tell you, now when I open those magazines, I can't read them anymore because they're always kind of like, you know, they revolve around the same things, you know. What did you do? It's all very interesting nowadays. I mean, of course, there are amazing skateboarders, but then I was I would read every word, you know. I would actually, and all those they become a heroes, you know, those skateboarders, you know, Mark Gonzalez, Ray Barbie, Matt Hansley, you know, I I felt like I knew them, right? So that's when I started kind of like leaking with with print, you know. That's when I started to really say, wow, this is a medium that gives you so much, you know. And you I would just kind of like uh I would uh I had actually two subscriptions to to the both big magazines, Trans World and Thrasher. And I would read them, you know, end to end with all the competitions, everything I knew, everything, right? And that's where I kind of like started to really fall in love with print. So then when we moved back from Venezuela to back to Israel for a little bit, my mother got me this job at an advertising agency. And they had like the first Mac computers there, you know, and I was less a kid, I think I was 14 or something, and you know, and I saw this computer that smiles to you, and you can kind of start drawing on it. And then I fell in love with graphic design and was like, wow, this is crazy. This is like, you know. And I started getting interested in that as well. So it's kind of like my love for print and that thing really connected very quickly, kind of like in the span of two or three years. And I started to study the that kind of you know, those computer stuff and you know, the graphic design and everything. And I and I started working with Photoshop when I was around 15. Now I'm 48, so that's a long time ago. And you know, I was working on Photoshop 2.5. You know, people don't even remember that thing. It was like so old, it didn't even have layers, you know. And always I was kind of like in this kind of like intersection, the technology and the print media, so it's all about communication in this way or another. So that's really fascinated me. You know, and I uh always read all kinds of stuff, professional stuff and you know, academic stuff. And every time I kind of like, you know, so it's kind of like I was zigzagging between technical stuff and you know, and and reading and kind of like the the you know the the art of writing, right? Yeah. So when I was I was kind of like, you know, and I worked in print, all kinds of stuff. And then when I was 24 or 20, I opened my own kind of like skateboarding magazine just for Israel. It was just for that, it was kind of like crossover, skateboarding, surfing, all that stuff, you know. And that's really when everything clicked, you know. So I had like the technical knowledge. I wasn't a very good designer, but I had like the uh publishing knowledge, and things started to so that's I would say, I mean, I think I wrote if no, I think that was the first print project I took on myself, besides doing stuff for clients when I worked at agencies. And I wanted to bring those stories to life as well. So, you know, again, those those different trips, those competitions, talking to different athletes, you know, getting all the things together. You know, the cool thing about skateboarding, it's not a sport and it's it's not an art, it's something in between, right? So some people say it's a sport, some people say it's an art form. I believe in the art form more than the sport, right? But I would say it's kind of like this intersection that you can really create, you know, it created a culture around it. So you can really do interesting stuff, which is not, you know, you don't see that, for example, in the NBA, right? In the NBA, it's all about points, it's all about this guy, that guy. Skateboarding is more about, you know, the culture, the music, you know, all the things around the trips. It's much more interesting in that sense. Much more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah. So no, that's awesome, Lior, because I'm I'm I'm similar to you. I I grew up really loving skateboarding, snowboarding, motocross, bicycle. I remember I grew up with like Tony Hawk at his peak, Kelly Slater surfing. I remember like I remember getting books at our book fair that had the addresses where you could mail your favorite athletes or people letters and they had like fan mail they could send back to you. I don't know where they're at, but I know I've got like a Kelly Slater and a Tony Hawk. Like, I'm sure their mail person sent it back, but I remember being so excited about that. But it's pretty cool, like hearing you talk about this. It's taking me back to when I was a kid and like really into those sports, and I watched them all the time. I mean, now, you know, the Olympics, I love like snowboarding and and all that. That's a part of it, skateboarding in the summer. But I just love hearing your passion for for skateboarding specifically, because that's just taking me back to what I used to really enjoy paying attention to growing up.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah, no, and I think those guys, you know, our heroes were really cool, you know, because they had like this thing you could send them an e uh a letter and they'll send you stickers back, you know? Yeah. So everybody was uh yeah, that was a really I think it's still like this, by the way. I think people are still, you know, even though it's the Olympics and a little bit more money came in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah. I remember playing like the Tony Hawk video game on my PlayStation and doing all that. That was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

You're younger than I am. That came a lot after that, but before the video game, there was a whole thing about, you know, I think the first video, you know, when Tony Hawk companies uh company Birdhouse, I think, you know, I got one of the first videos, he actually mailed it to me because he was just starting out. Skateboarding was actually in a slump in the 90s, the early 90s it was going down. It was really high in the 80s, like 85, 86, really exploded, and then in the 90s really slumped. So I I started when it slumped, you know, that's always about my story. When things go down, I get in, you know. When things are uh popular, I get out, you know. So um yeah, so so that's how my passion started with this all media stuff. And then I wrote a few books around graphic design, like the software, and wrote some articles for uh, you know, print magazines and kind of like stuff. It's a lot more professional stuff. Yeah, so you know, I've all the time I've been doing media. Uh I really like to do it independently. I'm not the kind of guy who can send a manuscript and wait around and say, oh, when is this guy gonna go back to me? That's the DI DIY thing from skateboarding, right? You build it yourself, you know. You want a ramp, you go and build it. Nobody's gonna build it for you, you know. Nowadays it's a little bit different, but then you had to do everything by yourself, you know. That's the ethos. So yeah. Yeah, I've I've kept that, you know. I just couldn't wait for somebody to come and tell me, hey, let me publish your book.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah. No, that's awesome. Leor, I got I got several questions that are that are popping up in my head for you. But the first one I want to ask you is just because you're so well traveled. You you were talking about Israel, Venezuela, now you're in Canada. And I'm I'm curious to know before I get into like your books, just one last question around skateboarding, because skateboarding can be a universal, you know, thing to do, unlike, you know, American football or you know, and soccer, football is different. But what was your experience growing up with skateboarding in Venezuela versus Israel? I love skateboarding, and people are looking at you like, what do you what is this?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

That's a great question. You know, this is uh exactly this kind of like up and down thing that happens with skateboarding. You know, skateboarding is a very interesting thing, and I wish I could I had the time to write a book. Maybe I would, but the thing is when it started, it could have taken two, you know, two ways, right? When it started, it could have been one of those, you know, pogo stick things or you know, yo-yo things, which is kind of like this coming this hobby trend, you know what I mean? Kind of like, you know, something you do for one year and you just shelve it because that was the trend. And it could have become a culture. You know, that intersection is so interesting because it's kind of like those kids, you know, the dogtown guys that made it what it is, you know, they they kind of like injected this culture to it, and it became the thing, right? So, first of all, that was the first intersection, and then it became kind of like, you know, connected to punk row, connected to all that kind of stuff, you know, and so on. And some good, some bad, you know. We can talk about that as well. But when it became a culture, it started to become this grassroots hardcore thing, which already had substance. And I think that's the the you know, you can ask, you know, skateboarding is just a a board with four wheels, right? And something else, like a pogo stick, is just like the same thing, it's got a spring. How come you don't have a pogo stick culture, but you have a skateboarding culture, right? It's all about the people who did it, you know what I mean? Yeah, if the pogo stick guys were cool, we're going to doing all that stuff. Pogostick will do the thing now in the Olympics, right? Maybe. But it happened with skateboarding because those guys injected the culture into it and the mindset. So I think that's the universal thing you're talking about. You're kind of like a part of a family. So when I was doing it in Venezuela, I actually studied at an American school. So everybody was kind of like, you know, they were Americans and it just made sense. Everybody was skateboarding there. I'm not sure that I met a lot of Venezuelans really skateboarding. And when I came to Israel, it was a little bit big because everybody was still, you know, with the, you know, it had this kind of like explosion in the 80s. So it came back in the late 80s. But then I gotta tell you, like, after three months, everybody quit. Yeah. And I stayed with it. And for the 90s, we were just like maybe in whole Israel, there were maybe like 20 or 30 or 40 skaters, you know, in whole Israel. But it was the same all over the world, by the way. It was the same all over. Tony Hawk talks about it a lot. He was kind of like, you know, early making a living. He was uh video editing, you know, that's Tony Hawk, right? The richest, the guy who was most successful. So it slumped, and then in the 2000, it came up again with the X Games. And that's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Because you have all these people coming from different countries to compete and stuff. So I was thinking that's why I was curious about the globalization of everybody making it.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

It was kind of like hardcore, and then it became global. You know, Tony Oak, the game really helped with that in the X games as well. Yeah, and then so but it was always uh something you can communicate with people, right? You can always kind of like take it. And I mean, skateboarding, I think nowadays it's even more open, but back then it was also open, kind of like you know, just come with your board, everything is cool, you know. It's all very competitive in in the essence. And I think nowadays it's even uh more loose because people kind of like skate with their own style. When I started, it was very, oh, now we do this, you know. This is the trick now. That's an old trick. We don't do those anymore. We do the and now it's more more integrated, so that's that's kind of cool. You know, it's uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

That was cool, man. I love talking about that, Leroy, because again, I don't there's not a lot of people in my that that talks about it, but hearing you talk about this stuff, it makes me think about all that stuff that I grew up with and loving, and so it's really cool to revisit. And I find myself every summer when the X games come on. I love when it comes on towards the end of summer because there's really not a not a lot that it competes with. So I have it on ESPN and I'm watching all of that kind of stuff, so it's pretty cool to just relive that every year. But Lear, I want to transition to your book, Jeremy Carter. Uh because it it and if I'm not mistaken, is this your first fiction novel that you've written?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's the first one I uh I took this challenge because I had that idea, right? So I always kind of like I don't think about I want to write a book. I think about I got this idea. Can I do something with it, right? So sometimes I do art, sometimes I do kind of like other stuff as well, because I got some artwork as well. And I got this kind of like idea about, you know, well, it evolved, but the thing was about, you know, what happened if you could surf everywhere in the world, you know what I mean? So the world was kind of like, you know, the buildings and you know the hills and everything would be just surfable. So think about that. Uh you know, it came from from a friend of mine who also told me this. He was a professional windsurfer. So he talked about that as well. But I I always thought about it concrete-wise, he was kind of like thinking about kind of like waves, you know. So we kind of like every time you look at something, you say, Oh, can I scale on this? This is amazing. Maybe. So the first thing was kind of like, oh, I got this kind of like thing in my head pecking all the time. And then I I said, Okay, why what can I do with this? I said, Well, that can be kind of like really cool about somebody harnessing this technology.

unknown 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

And I said, Okay, that's nice, but what else? And then I don't I don't know the process exactly, but I came to this fruition that oh, it can be kind of like a story about this guy who becomes like this superhero in a sense. And then I started building it backwards, you know what I mean? So I said, okay, let's let's see how this works. And uh it worked quite nicely, you know, because I'm I'm a comics fan, you know, I'm a Marvel fan for many, many years, right? So I grew up with Batman and all those. Yeah, I really grew up with it. So I was kind of like thinking about this whole intersection between extreme sports, surfing, surfing the world, um, and all the other things I picked up through life, you know, philosophy. And you know, it's it's kind of like the book has a lot of cliche moments, you know what I mean, that you have to have in a book, like the arc and the hero, and the and you know, growing up, taking responsibility. I'm not afraid of those, you know. That's fine. That's how we tell stories from ancient times, you know. It started with the you know, the Greek. Nobody invented everything for the last 2,000 years, right? You can see here, see the same stories in the Bible, you can see them in uh, you know, Greek uh mythology, everything is the same. So I wasn't afraid of that, but I wanted to bring like a different angle to to you know to young readers in which I instilled a little bit more philosophy, a little bit of more wisdom into it. So, you know, when we saw those movies, you know, the covered kid and all those, it's kind of like, you know, the head is kind of like, you know, there's always the master, right? But the master doesn't always give you their source of wisdom, you know. So in this book, I was talking about the Tao Ti Cheng, you know, the Chinese philosophy a little bit more. So I was trying to kind of like instill a little bit more knowledge. Uh but I think at the end is it needs to be exciting, it needs to be fun, it needs to be, you know, some twists, some turns, and I think I got it in the book. At least for the reviews, we're okay with it. I'm a very you know, I I like to write short. I'm not a very good, you know, at exposition and kind of like setting. I'm not very good at that, but I'm I think I'm I'm this and kind of like creating this plot in which I want to get from the end to the start, and that's what happens in this book. I kind of like kneel where I want to get and I spill it backwards, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah. Well I I was I wanted you to break it down because your book brings in so many different things. I mean, you were talking about the Russian mob getting involved, and you've got so many different aspects to it that you tie in, and and I was just curious to know how you came up with and you explained it how but how you came up with your plot and how you kept it going and adding all these different variables to it. Um I just think it's a very unique story that's a little bit different and and can be very enjoyable no matter what your interests are. But I was just curious your process on how you put that story together. Um and again, I think it's something too, Laura. You've been you've experienced so many different things in life and you've been so many different places. So like you have, I don't know if it's different culture that has influence, different interests that has influence. Like I still find it so fascinating that you've been able to merge your passions of design and sport and then storytelling and writing. Like you, you're a very creative person. And I just love learning about how you harness all of those and put them together and then put out a a book like this that's that's different than the other work that you've published before.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, I mean first of all, thank you. The thing is, uh, you know, I I for my life I learned that everything I studied came came handy somehow, you know what I mean? So, you know, the graphic design had came handy, you know, the other things I learned always came handy, you know. When I opened the again, the Tao Te Ching, um, it came handy, you know. It's a book with 80, 83 chapters, but it's so genius because every word there means something, you know, the Chinese in that sense are geniuses because it's a very short book, but it's so profound that you can read it all all your life. And I wanted to kind of like, you know, instill that knowledge as well, because sometimes it's missing, you know. So for example, I studied martial arts for a few years, you know, uh in Kung Fu and stuff. And you know, the the guy who taught me never read a never read the book. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like those people, you know, they do the motions, they do the everything. You know, he's an expert. But when I showed him the book, you know, this is the book that talks about what you do. He was like, I never read it. So so it's really and you know, and it's kind of like the master, right? So I became the I became the I was a student, but he was the master. So, you know, I found out that people, and this is very important, I think, an aspect that maybe I was trying uh, you know, subconsciously bring to the book is that a lot of people don't understand the why they do what they do, you know what I mean? So they do things they don't really go, why am I doing what I'm doing, right? And when you start going back, you might find, you know, the wisdom in in old things that you say, oh you know you can find it in advertising very well, you know. I do advertising as well. So, you know, when I teach advertising, I always go to the old campaigns, the new ones, they're not as good, you know, because those guys were limited. They were limited by technology, they're limited by space, they were limited by so many things that that limitation brought great things from them, right? So what I'm trying to say is that I wanted to give a little bit more background, a little bit more philosophy. So not just punching and fighting and killing some bad guys, which is always, you know, something you want to have. You want to have this kind of like a discourse, you wanna you want the h hero to reveal themselves, you want them to have the uh, you know, the the training era or the mentorship. Everything is in there, right? But it's a little bit different in that sense. Um now the the book is also based on the fact that, you know, I don't want to reveal a lot of it, but you have like this alien thing as well hanging around there, right? So he found the diamond and uh I never tell where where it came from, what's inside, what does it mean. But there is a story behind that as well, right? So it's kind of like built to further exploration. Right now, the story is that he finds a diamond, he understands there is power to it, but the power is actually external. They have to use it inside the machine to create the grid so he can surf on it. So that's very important as well. It's kind of like outside of him. So it's not like he is really a superhero, he's just using that thing. But as the books, if again, if I can write them, if I have evolve, the story behind it is also interesting. So it's kind of like this little kind of like just uh first chapter of this story, no?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah, yeah. No, you know, I don't want yeah, don't don't share too much more because I want people to pick it up and read it. And we've got it on the Books for Guys website, so anyone who's interested in learning more about it can go, can go click on it and then go purchase it. But that did lead me to another question, Leroy. I've just got just a couple more for you. Are is this gonna be a a series for you? Or is this a one book? And or or and I guess the other question was if it's not a series, you know, do you have plans for future fiction books that you're wanting to write, or or do you have new ideas that you're thinking about and what do those look like?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

I really hope to expand this, you know, but again, it's uh I do know everything uh DIY, right? So I write it, I edit it. Of course, people help me, and I have a publishing a publisher as well, but you know, it's it's not an easy thing to do. So I do have already another book, which I wanted to be the same topic, but a graphic novel this time, not just a book, just a graphic novel that. I I outlined so yeah I want to expand and I think there is uh there is a lot of substance in that you know I'm talking about myself you know self-indulging but I think that when you kind of like look at this character versus things I've seen, I think I got a lot of ways I can expand this in an interesting way. And I'm not saying it's you know the level of Harry Potter or those things, you know. But I'm saying that it can become, for example, an animation, it can become a graphic novel. It has a lot of uh ways to go because it's very open. So I wish I could. Uh I really wanted to create some videos around it, some animations around it. That would be very nice. Yeah. Because uh, I think in a lot of mediums and not just books, you know, storytelling is everywhere, right? Yeah, but I think books are are super important. You know, my my kids are buying books all the time. I really love books, but I think sometimes you want to have this back and forth between different medias because you can tell the story a little bit differently. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yeah. No, I love that, and I can't wait to see I can't wait to see what all you do and what paths you decide to take. I mean, I love too that you give yourself the flexibility to take the time to go down the path that you think is the right path with whatever your next journey is with this story or these characters or whatnot. Some people I think try to force things, and I like that you give yourself the flexibility to decide what you think is best to do next. But Lear, I got I got one more question for you. And this may be this one may be a tough one, especially if you've been you've been a reader your whole life. And so I'm always curious, and this answer can change obviously based off what season you're in of life or what you're doing, but I'm always curious to know what some of your favorite books have been and what books have meant a lot to you, either personally or professionally. And if asked, what book do you like to recommend to others?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Well, that's always a tough question because you know, you read so much, but you I think you always go to the first ones you read in life, you know. Kind of like, you know, I really like Mark Twain. He was always my favorite writer. So Huckleberry Finn and uh those mov uh books were always, you know, my mother recommended it to me. And I think Mark Twain is one of the you know smartest people ever lived. I still go back to his quotes and his funny quotes and everything. So definitely those books were the ones that, you know, instilled some of the love, you know, now that I look back, right? Yeah. Um, you know, moving forward, I I kinda, you know, when I was a teenager, it was more a little bit more, you know, I would say more anarchistic writers, but you know, and George Orwell, for example, you know, those those kind of books which are a little bit more adversary. You know, as I moved more, I I liked more like short stories. That's really my thing. You know, even this graphic, this novel that I created, it's not very long. I'm not very good at long formats. I'm very good at short formats. So short stories, you know, uh I like Henry Rollins, for example. I don't know if you know him. Henry Rollins writes all these kind of like little books, short books about his life, his travel, and always in a very interesting way. And so kind of like books where it became a little bit more journals, a little bit more but professionally, you know, I read so many things as well, you know, for my line of works. But I would say if you if I go back, somebody tells me, hey, you know, I would say it's probably Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Very cool, very cool. Well, Lior, man, thank you so much for doing this. And like I said, we've got we've got your book, Jeremy Carter on the website. I'm gonna work on getting your other books on there as well. And man, can't wait to see again, like we were talking about. I can't see what what paths you decide to take and your next journey and what you decide to work on. And now, you know, I always say now that we've met, it's gonna be really cool to follow your work and see what all you continue to do. And so, man, thank thank you thank you so much for doing this. And and we're excited to have you on today.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Thank you very much for uh everything you do. I really like the project and uh more power to you. And let's get the kids waiting, right, before they go to the computers.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, that that's the goal, man. That's the goal. So thank you, Liore. Take care, bye-bye.