Chris Manske - Outsmart the Money Magicians

Chris is the President of Manske Wealth Management with over half a billion dollars in assets under management, and author of The Prepared Investor and Outsmart the Money Magicians. Manske and his team have worked directly with leaders at IBM, GE, Microsoft, Exxon, Accenture, Boeing, and more.

He owns one of the largest investment firms in Houston, managing half a billion dollars for individuals and institutions all over the world. Over his twenty-year investing career, he spent two of them as the Lead Financial Advisor to the University of Texas Employee Assistance Provider where he served a public and private population of over 100,000 people. Manske spent over a decade with Merrill Lynch where he was often recognized in the top fraction of 1% of financial advisors. He was selected to help train thousands of financial advisors across the country so they could better build a world class wealth management practice within the Merrill Lynch platform. Manske graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1995 and served in the Army for six years. After leaving the military, he did his post-graduate work at Rice University and today is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ leading a disciplined and well-credentialed team providing sophisticated wealth management and individualized investment advice.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

I've spent a lot of time there actually when I used to live in San Antonio, but uh I haven't been back in a long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Well, I I think real well of San Antonio. The riverwalk is beautiful, and and it's nice to hear that you know a little bit about Texas.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yeah. Oh yeah, man. Hey, I'm from Arkansas. I'm not too far away. Okay. Oh yeah, a lot of friends in Dallas, a lot of friends in Austin. So yeah, spent a lot of time in the great state of Texas. Chris, man, it is such a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. You and I connected a while ago. You're really, Chris, you're the first person that I've had on that deals with wealth management. And who bear to talk to? You've been the president and owner of your wealth firm for almost 15 years now, I saw. You've written a book to basically help people like me understand investing and wealth building. And you talk about some of the uh tricks maybe we get sold on. And your book is called Outsmart the Money Magicians, just so everybody knows. But Chris, I would love for you just to kick things off and just talk about how you ended up going down this path of wealth management and where that interest began and and and what that's led to.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Well, the way I ended up in wealth management was kind of uh by accident. One of the guys I was friends with in college, he had uh gotten a job at Merrill Lynch long before I did. And he had suggested it, you know, you might want to look into this. And at the time I was in the army. I was an officer in the army serving overseas and then for a little while stateside before I decided to go ahead and and get out and make a change. And I was at uh Merrill Lynch for almost 12 years before I started my own firm and had a great, really great experience there. They had me do a lot of training for advisors across the country because my practice had grown relatively fast in comparison to most advisors. And so they they put me into a training cadre. And so I was able to help thousands of advisors be uh be good at uh the craft.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

It was a great experience. How man, that's awesome, first of all, because I'm I'm sitting here thinking myself and I'm sure a lot of others, I get reached out to by financial advisors and people all the time wanting to to help. And it's a bit overwhelming. But Chris, what do you think was the differentiator between yourself and some of the others there that made you stand out and I guess obtain more clients and have maybe a quicker success path than some of your peers?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Well, we're we're going back to the early 2000s when I began my career. And uh in my late 20s, I was willing to just work really hard. And when somebody works a 10-hour day and then somebody next to them works a 16-hour day, that extra six hours, it's really hard to catch up to that. And uh so I wouldn't say I had a special silver bullet that you know got got me ahead of folks. It was more that I just was really nervous about failing. I was really scared about not being able to do well. And so I I put a lot of time in to you know try to get ahead. But then if we fast forward to when I opened up my own shop, I feel that there's a lot of things that separate you know what we're doing from you know the rest of Wall Street. And you know, this firm, like you said, it's been almost 15 years, and I mean, we've gone basically from zero to almost a billion in assets. So yeah, it's been it's been a really wonderful ride. And the two books that I've had published, you know, not self-published, you know, my publisher is McGraw Hill, they've been a place where I could share with others, look, this is important for people to know. Once you know this, you can't go back. You know, once once you're aware of this, then the education changes your perspective and you won't be satisfied with uh, you know, a a lesser offering.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah. No, I love that. And there's a couple things I picked up on there. First off, with you putting this information out there, it almost forces other people to step their game up and operate a little bit differently and more so in the favor of the people who are doing who are giving you your their money, their hard-earned money, to try to build for the future and all of that. And so I think it's a good thing that you're doing of putting this information out there and saying, like, hey, take a second to look over all of this and and really deep dive before you make a decision on who you want to work with. So, first off, I think that's great because again, like myself, I get messages from tons of people, and some of you are like, I don't know, like haven't heard the greatest things about this place or that place, or are you trying to trick me just to get my money? You know, it's a lot of hesitation, I think a lot of people have, and I like your approach of really it sounds like just being upfront and honest of, hey, here's some things to watch out for, here's some things we do differently. But I also love how you described just your work ethic because I'm thinking of some friends, you know, and I'm in the recruiting space, it's kind of a similar thing to where you got to out hustle other people if you want to make it, and you have to do it over a long period of time. And I'm thinking of some of our friends who've also been very successful in in different spaces, and they just they just work hard. They're bulldogs, they just they're they're afraid to fail, or they have a really important why of what they need to do to take care of their families and then just different things. But I don't think people talk about just hard work enough much anymore. Or it seems to be everyone's trying to find the shortcut and the easy way out, and let's automate everything, but there's nothing that replaces just some good old grit and grind work, and so I really like that you you brought that up because I think that's important.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

I do too. In fact, we have a video I need to share with you uh through LinkedIn, and it's a video that shows two people, and one of them is working like eight hours a day, and the other one is working 10 hours a day, and it shows as the days go by that that extra two hours, you know, at the end of a year, the second person doing the extra two hours has worked three more months longer than the first person. And so even if the first person is a really amazing worker, you can't catch up to three months of extra work. You just can't. Yeah, grit, grit says a lot.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah. No, and you can even translate that to wealth building. You're talking about the compounding hours and what that translates to, same thing financially, the compounding interest and investing and your approach to that. Every little bit you add to the pot, how exponentially that can increase what you have when you decide to, I don't know, retire or that, or hit that goal you're trying to get to, you can get there much faster. But Chris, what are some things specifically from your book and that you like to share with people that are, I guess, blind spots that we get maybe tricked into not seeing? And and what are some things that you and your firm do differently to try and do things the right way compared to what Wall Street and some of these other financial players are doing?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Sure. So the book is full of very specific items that clients need to demand from their uh Wall Street financial advisor. And uh so I could share a couple with them, a couple of those with you real fast. One of them would be when you get charged your fee, and another one would be how you see your portfolio. So let's start with when you're charged your fee. Uh, we don't have to be a genius to know that if my money is in my account for a little bit longer period of time, that's good for me. The longer my money is in there, the better. And the vast majority of Wall Street, what they're doing for their customers involves a fee. And the question is, when does that fee come out of the account? And uh, and so what we suggest, and what uh the book really suggests for clients to demand is that the fee comes out after the work is done. But the vast majority of Wall Street take the fee right at the start of the engagement. The fee happens first.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

So to think about that, it takes out the money that could be compounding exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah, so that money is removed from the client's account and it's put into Wall Street's pockets where it makes them interest, and then they do the work for you, and then they charge you again at the start of the next period. And so they're always a bit ahead of the game, and uh, and it's not right. I mean, they're saying to us, our role is to help you to grow your net worth. That's what you're hiring me for. Well, then systemically, if that's really your focus for your client, you're gonna charge your fee at the end of the period, at the end of the engagement. And uh, and so this is this is so straightforward. I mean, just even without even reading the book, hearing this podcast, anybody hears this, you know, they they should just their next conversation with their advisor, look, can you just make sure, put it in writing that the fee comes out at the end of the period? And and the jargon is in arrears. That's the verbiage that you're looking for in writing, is that you know, all fees will be charged in arrears. And uh, and you know, and that's that's a a real straightforward one. The second one is how you see your portfolio, and uh people might remember the name Bernie Madoff.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Okay, so Bernie Madoff, he's famous because of his horrible Ponzi scheme. Well, that fraud was possible because Madoff had two powers centralized under his thumb, and those two powers were that he could trade in the account and he could create the statement that was sent out to the client so that they could see what was in the account. So he could do the online version, he could send them the papers and the mail. He had control over both the reporting and the management. So he could manage it, but then report differently, and that's where the fraud was. So this is really straightforward. Do not combine those powers. So when you go to a uh you know a brokerage firm and your advisor is managing the account for you, and then the exact same firm is where you log in to see what that management looks like, you've centralized those powers and it's not acceptable. You should tell them, I would like to have a third party login. I want to have my money held at a separate entity from the person who's doing the actual advising. That separation of powers, it removes all of that possibility of fraud, all of that possibility of mismanagement, and even just mistakes. You know, I mean, uh, when you've got that third party that is reporting to the client separate from the person who's managing the money, it really does put the client first.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah. That seems, Chris, like, I don't know, obviously the the big players out there, it all does seem to be centralized. Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems to be that's something I've never once heard from anyone is to make those a separate focus. When you're working with people, what's the percentage that have never done that or don't even know that's possible? I'm assuming pretty high.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Yeah, well, so anybody who's working with a fiduciary, and there's a lot of fiduciaries these days, 10 years ago, we were very rare. You know, fiduciary was kind of hard to find, but nowadays it's almost half of the financial planning industry. So I think it's about 37-ish percent right now. So anybody who's working with a major brokerage firm, that's not a fiduciary environment. And so those powers are combined, and you're right. But if somebody has a fiduciary advisor and that advisor is helping them, typically you could hold the money anywhere. You know, like they might have uh most of their clients are at Charles Schwab, is a very big aggregator, or Fidelity is another one, a big aggregator. And so the client will have the money at Fidelity, but their advisor is not with Fidelity. Their advisor is a fiduciary shop, you know, on their own, you know, uh with permission to manage the money for the client.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

And uh, you know, and it's the same with Charles Schwab. And there's there's a few other, you know, real big major Wall Street firms where, you know, the this is where the you know the smart money is. And when people talk about, oh, I've just never heard of that, I think there's a reason that they haven't heard of it is because the industry's biggest players, you know, trillions and trillions of dollars in marketing and all of the messaging, it's not geared toward what's best for the client. You know, those are the same companies that they're charging up front instead of in arrears. So these things need to change. And and I think that's why McGraw-Hill published my book, is because you know, you get you just get like two or three of these items in. It's like, this is such basic common sense. Why isn't the client getting this? And, you know, I think the reason is because there's a lot of people that they're in power, they're they've got the the ability to put the message out there, and it's bad for them to change, you know, they'd rather make the buck.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah. No, and I mean it kind of goes boils down to that word greed, because even doing things the right way, it still benefits both sides, but they've skewed it to where it benefits them more heavily when they don't really have to do that. But I really didn't, I'm glad you broke that down, Chris, too, because I didn't really know that. So with your firm, your clients can basically request that you hold their money wherever they want it to be held from. You can manage it through different, whether it's a Charles Schwab or a Morgan Stanley or somewhere else. So your clients have the ability to request from you where to put it. But I'm sure you also have maybe some recommendations of places that hey, perform better or they work, you know, maybe your fees are different, but you're able to look at all that and provide all that information to those clients, correct?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Yeah, that's right. It's uh agnostic. You know, we don't care really where the money is except from a standpoint of where's the lowest fee, where's the best access to the markets? And um, you know, there there's there's not too many answers to that question, so it's pretty easy to point them in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah. One of the things I saw, and it was really just in your your summary, one of the things, one of the illusions you call it was encouraging people to save a fixed amount each month called pay yourself first. Yes. What what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Well, it's very misunderstood. So when people say pay yourself first, most people think that that means that they take a fixed amount of money every month and they set it aside into savings. And Wall Street loves this because it, you know, guarantees or promises them a certain amount every month. It puts the focus on what is Wall Street gonna get? And so that's that's the misunderstanding. Pay yourself first has been hijacked and it's turned into, hey, what do I do? You know, how do I save? Oh, you should pay yourself first. Make sure you set aside a hundred bucks a month, fifty bucks a month, a thousand a month, whatever it is, and now you're on the right path. But uh no, that that's actually not what it means. And to uh to give you an explanation of what it does mean, we want to put the focus on you, the saver, the client. And when you do that, it changes everything. So let me describe what it looks like when you do it right. Every cent that you make, whether it's from your job or from a garage sale or somebody gave you a gift for your birthday and it was money. You had overtime, there was a bonus at work. So you notice I'm saying all those things, the reason I'm saying that is because nobody has just a specific amount of money every single two weeks. Nobody has that. They think they do, but the reality is that there's a variation. There's every year there's a possible pay raise. We get promotions. There's there's things that happen where the money changes. So every cent you make from all of those sources goes directly to savings. That is paying yourself first. And then from your savings account, you decide what is my lifestyle? What is it that I need every single month in order to cover my bills and do the things that please me and make me comfortable? And so the focus is not on limiting your savings and putting that specific amount aside. The focus is on limiting your lifestyle and not getting sucked into the game of keeping up with the Joneses. Because that's what's happening in America is people they save their amount of money because they paid themselves first the wrong way. And then they they walk around every day thinking, I've already saved anything else in my checking account, my bonus, my promotion, well, it's in my checking account. I've already saved. I can use this, and now we're in the game of you know, how do I spin myself into not ever being rich?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah. Dang, Chris, I've never heard anyone explain it like that. And I'm glad, and that's why I wanted to ask you that question, because I've heard the same explanation of pay yourself first, the the bad way to put it in this account or that account. Now the rest of it's free for whatever you want to do. But man, it makes so much sense to to flip the script and figure out ways to cut back on maybe some of those things you don't really need, and you could put that towards your future growth and whatnot. And I love I love all the tools out there now where you can calculate what an extra$10 a week in your investment account, what that equates to in 40 years. I'm to that point in my life where I'm kind of addicted to it. I'm like, how can we add more? Because if this is gonna add 200 grand in, you know, 30, 40 years, like how nice is that gonna be? Um, and every time we make more, we're trying to always figure out how we can save, you know, not save, but like invest more and more and more. And it's just kind of one of those things that's probably there's a lot worse things to be addicted to uh than trying to save for the future. But the other question I wanted to ask you, Chris, because this is another thing I hear people talk about, I heard someone talk about this the other day too. I'm I'm in the recruiting space, like I said, and we were negotiating a salary, and someone was almost afraid they were talking about the tax bracket, and like, I don't know if I want to get into that bracket, or you know, what can I do to minimize that? And you have that as a bullet point too, to talk about how we've been geared to think a certain way from a tax standpoint. Talk a little bit about that misconception that's out there.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah, this one is I'm not gonna point a finger at Wall Street on this one. I think it's just complex math. And with a little bit of explanation, you can kind of have that aha moment and you'll never look at it the wrong way again. So, what people most people think is they think when I hit a certain tax bracket, that's the fee that gets charged on my money. And it is a simple way to think of it, it's just that it's also really inaccurate. The right way to think about it is that it's kind of like a fountain. And so, you know, the the money comes up the center of the fountain, and then it it spills over. There's a tier that can hold some, and there's another tier that can hold some, and there's another tier that can hold some. And so when you fill up that first tier, well, then it pours out and now you're filling up the second tier. It's different, it's a different level on your tax bracket. And then it spills out of there, and now it's filling up the third tier. And so that's kind of the way to visualize it. But to say it a little more simply, when you make 10 grand a year and that's all you made, that 10 grand isn't isn't getting taxed. Yeah, that's the that zero to you know, the first tax bracket, there's no tax on it. Okay, but if you make a million dollars a year, that first 10 grand is still has the exact same tax. It's spilled out into that first uh tier and it's there's that's where it sits. That's your money and it doesn't, it doesn't spill over. But then the next set, like from 10,000 to let's say 24,000, yeah, there's a 12% tax, let's say. And uh, and so you've got a small tax on that tier of money. And if I make a million dollars a year, that tier of money is still only getting taxed at 12. So when people say I don't want to be in the higher tax bracket, yeah, you do. You do want to be in a higher tax bracket because that means you're gonna have more money for sure. It doesn't change the tax on the previous dollars. Those dollars still have that same lower tax bracket. The only dollars that are gonna get taxed at the higher bracket are the ones in that bracket, in that level of the fountain. And so what that means is Americans want to make more money. That to say, oh no, please don't give me that bonus this year, give it to me next year, or you know, all this stuff that you're trying to do, probably you just want to get as much money as you can.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

That's probably the the answer. And there's there's strategy there. There's there's levels of nuance with business owners and you know, uh, you know, tax credits and all kinds of interesting, interesting approaches. But for the most basic, simple level, like you're saying that somebody says, Well, I don't want that salary because that'll stick me into that tax bracket. You do want That salary.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that goes into it could lead to a much deeper conversation, Chris, of just financial literacy and education and the lack of it, uh, for the most part. Because yeah, you talk to a lot of people and they just think that whole amount's taxed at this higher percentage, and they don't realize, like, no, only a certain amount of that is there's more money's always better. There's not a bad that's right. There's nothing wrong with making more money. That's actually a good thing. And sure, you may think you're being taxed more just because of the amount you pay, but that's not actually, you know, how this math works when you look at the percentages and the breakdown of it all. And so I'm glad that you explained that because yeah, again, I think there's I'm sure it's frustrating to you as someone who is in the space and and it's probably rewarding at the same time to be able to educate people on this. But what is your I guess before I kind of get to the final question, what is your personal opinion on just as an as a country? Let's say as a country, and the the way we operate in this financial kind of illiteracy, uh, and we're not really taught this in college or high school. And and really we should be. It should be probably one of the main pillars that we learn is how to manage our money and how to do this the right way. Why don't we do a better job of that?

SPEAKER_01 23:17

That's a really good question. I guess maybe the reason we don't do a better job of that is because we have this foundation that we're free. We're a nation of, hey, let the buyer beware. We're all equal and you can go out there and and you can, you know, make your path and make your way. And so that kind of foundation kind of lends itself to rugged individualism. And so we're less likely to have these just basic offerings of like, well, hey, here's how you handle your checkbook, or here's how, you know, and it's not a school class, and and it, and it probably should be. But at the same time, I could see where there's lots of communities where they would say, Well, that's, you know, that's what your family teaches you, you know, and that that's what you when you go and you're doing uh, you know, extracurriculars like Sunday school or you know, you're you're at baseball and your baseball coach kind of pulls you aside and says, Hey, I, you know, did you know this is how this works? Like there, there's probably that mentor-mentee relationship that you know fills those gaps, but it would be nice if it was uh, you know, if it was more institutionalized. In fact, I think that's one of the things I love about your outreach, Chris, is because this podcast and your effort to help people to read, to, you know, to to advance themselves by you know immersing in both fiction and nonfiction. You know, you just you're you're so much better off when you you have that daily habit of reading. There's there's no way to replace, you know, a year of even just 20 minutes a night. You know, that year after 20 minutes a night of reading, you're a different person. You can't be the same person. And uh and I I think maybe that's why in this nation it's not so institutionalized, is because we we've got a lot so many other ways that free people can learn and advance themselves.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah. No, and I appreciate the kind of words on that, Chris. Because yeah, I mean, I've I've probably I've learned more from books and podcasts than than maybe any other method. And so that's you know, that's the whole point of is encouraging this to self-develop, self-improve personal development, how much you can learn and grow by just spending a few minutes a day reading or listening to a podcast like this. But yeah, that question just came to me because I was just thinking, you know, you see all the reports of like credit card debt and all these people that don't know how to manage things, and it's people joke, it's like, yeah, in high school you need to learn how to change a tire and you probably need to learn how to manage your money a little bit better, you know, so that we can do a better job, just because it just seems like there's so many people that have to figure it out the hard way. They go into debt or they don't know how to invest and they're just confused. And, you know, and your book points out, you know, Wall Street can take advantage of that, you know, and then you're you're in an even worse spot with certain fees and interests and stuff like that. So I think what you're putting out there is also very important. And and hopefully a lot of people will read your book and listen to this and be curious to go find out more and maybe challenge the person they're working with as an advisor to say, hey, this seems a little off, you know, can we fix this? Um, which does lead me actually to one more question before I ask you my final question. When working with an advisor, is it fairly is there flexibility there for them to change things up the way they do from a fee standpoint, or or is it concrete? And it may be different based on who you work with, but it seems like maybe they're just as long as they're not ass, they don't have to change it. But how easy is it to be flexible when in their role when when someone like me says says, hey, I've noticed you're doing this, I want this changed.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

There is flexibility, and that flexibility usually is not going to be with the financial advisor. It's gonna be with the financial advisor's higher-ups. And so when you're talking with the advisor and and you say, Look, I want to make sure that you charge me in arrears, we put that in writing. Their initial response when they're like, Well, I can't do anything about that. The firm, this company doesn't do that. Okay, well, don't just end the conversation there. Okay, let me talk with your boss. I need to talk with the branch manager, I need to talk with the compliance officer, give me a manager who I can talk to. And then when they say, sorry, we're not gonna change that for you, well, then you probably should listen to what they're saying. Like, okay, yeah, I'm not as important to them as I had hoped. And it, you know, it might be time to vote with your feet.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, and someone else. Yeah. Which is another thing. You can you can go work with someone else. You're you're not stuck where you're at. So no, that was just a good point. That was a question I was actually thinking about asking earlier as you were describing that with the fees. How how easy is it to ask for a change? And and can do they have the ability to do that. Sounds like they do. If they don't want to do it, then maybe you can go find someone who will do it and you can, you know, have a better place for your money. But um, Chris, man, this has been such a good conversation. I I love all learning a lot about this. I know a lot of people that listen and watch will also enjoy this. But my final question for you, and I ask everyone this that comes on the Books for Guys podcast, uh, a book-related question. You know, obviously we've got your book out there, and I think uh it's a read a lot of people will be interested in. But for you personally, what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you, either professionally or personally? And what's a book or two that you like to recommend to others?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

I have a lot of them. You know, I'm a writer and uh so I love to read. I think reading is very important. And so I even I have a list, I call it the required reading for all humans. And it's it's got a a long list of books that have really touched me, but just to touch on a few of them. One of them is The War of Art. So not the Art of War, it's the opposite, The War of Art, uh, I think by Stephen Pressman. And uh that's a really fantastic book for anybody who has a side to them that is creative, that you want to create something or make something that is not real now, but it needs to be real in the future, which every entrepreneur, you know, you're making something when you make your business. Any writer, any painter, uh, if you've ever written a song, I mean, anything that you know doesn't exist and you're gonna make it exist, the war of art is a really moving piece of work. And another uh book that has been very helpful to me is Taming the Tiger Within. Taming the Tiger Within talks to the the truth of your feelings. They didn't exist because of the stuff outside of you, they existed because you created them. You are you know the the the master of what you feel. And if you don't feel that to be true, Taming the Tiger Within is a is a great, great book. I really enjoyed that one. And uh I I can I could list off a few more, but I'll just give one more, just one last one. There's uh it's a letter, and it was written by Martin Luther King while he was in jail. And I think that this it's titled Letter from Birmingham Jail. And it's such a great insight into what America is and what it could be, and a really special time in our nation's history. It's worth reading. It's a really good read.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Yeah, cool. No, I'll I uh great recommendations. I've actually had someone else recommend the War of Art. I've got that added to my reading list. I really want to read the you said Taming the Tiger Within.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yep. I'm gonna add that to my list too. I'm gonna add all of those are great recommendations, Chris. Um, but man, I appreciate this. I could we could probably talk for many, many more minutes on just questions that keep popping in my head. But the good news is you are also an author, and I'm sure you will have more work that comes out at some point. And when you do, we'll have to have you back on the podcast so we can to have longer discussion and and more about it. But Chris, thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for putting this out there for people to learn from, as it is a very important pillar for everyone's life to is wealth management and preparing for the future. And so thank you for the work you're doing. Thank you for the work that you've put out there, and uh can't wait to follow you and see all the other amazing things that you've yet to do because there's no doubt you're going to continue to do that. And so thank you for being a part of the Books for Guys podcast, and we're proud to have your book on the website.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

I'm so appreciative to have had this conversation, and I appreciate your gratitude. I also am very grateful for a chance to share with others something that I am a big believer in, and that is education changes your perspective. So don't stop reading.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, we appreciate it, Chris.