Curiosity Changes Everything | Julie Bruns on Leadership, Growth, and Creating a Better Life

In this episode of Books4Guys, Chris sits down with leadership development expert, trainer, and author Julie Bruns to discuss curiosity, emotional intelligence, resilience, career growth, leadership development, and creating a more fulfilling life both personally and professionally.

Julie shares her journey from corporate software training into leadership development and coaching, eventually leading to the creation of her book Peace, Possibilities, and Perspective: 8 Secrets to Serenity and Satisfaction in Your Life and Career. Throughout the conversation, Julie explains why curiosity may be one of the most important traits for personal growth, professional development, leadership, and lifelong learning.

Chris and Julie discuss:
 • Why curiosity changes the way we connect with people
 • The importance of emotional intelligence in leadership
 • Why great employees do not automatically become great leaders
 • How resilience and grit shape long term success
 • The difference between wanting something and actually pursuing it
 • Why personal development impacts every area of life
 • How leaders can better support and develop their teams
 • The challenge of measuring leadership and culture impact inside organizations
 • The role books and lifelong learning play in growth and self awareness

Julie also shares lessons from her own career journey, including transitioning from software training into leadership consulting, overcoming challenges in corporate environments, and learning how to create opportunities by asking questions, staying curious, and continuing to grow.

Books discussed during the episode include:
 • The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks
 • Untamed by Glennon Doyle
 • The Body Keeps the Score

If you are interested in leadership, emotional intelligence, career development, communication skills, resilience, or personal growth, this episode is packed with practical insight and motivating conversation.

Connect with Julie Bruns:
 • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yes2possibility/
 • Website: https://2possibilityandbeyond.com/my-book

Subscribe to @Books4Guys for conversations focused on books, leadership, personal growth, wellness, mindset, career development, and helping people become better readers, thinkers, leaders, and professionals. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Outside of Nashville? I'm in Nashville too. I didn't have any idea. Because on your LinkedIn it said it didn't say Nashville, so I didn't know. I'm in East Nashville. Just just yeah, right across the river.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Small world. Yeah, we love Nashville. Been here about three years now. Came up from Atlanta. And uh no, met my wife on Broadway. So it's one of those stories. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

That's awesome. Maybe we can get together, all four of us can have lunch or something in Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Yeah, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Nashville, not Nashville.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah. No, that'd be great. That'd be great. So awesome. Small world. That's so cool that you said that. But no, Julie, this is uh I've been looking forward to this conversation. I've been looking into your book and just the work you've done. And I'm excited for you to share more about it just because I know a lot of you know, people that are professionals listen to this and my audience, they're all in some way, shape, or form involved in some leadership or or career development. I mean, I'm in the recruiting space, so you doing career development work is something that resonates with me. Is I don't do that exactly from a coaching standpoint, but you know, there's a little correlation there. But to kick things off, Julie, I would love for you just to share a little bit of just your story, just your career progression and really just what led you to putting pen to paper and writing your book.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

It's a question I get a lot. So um I never grew up thinking I was a writer or wanting to write a book. Um it never even crossed my mind, to be honest, until I was probably my in my late 30s. And I I got into training and corporate training after I finished my undergrad and my graduate degree, and I thought I wanted to be a teacher. And um, I'm like, I don't think I want to teach in schools though. Where else can I teach? And so I was like, I I can teach. This is before the internet. Actually, I'm going to the library. Where else can I use my training skills and my teaching skills and my degrees? Because I had an undergrad business degree and then I had a teaching degree, a master's in teaching. It's like, what can I do? I'm I can teach in the corporate world, go teach in business. So I got into that and it was way, a way better fit for me. I loved it. And and I started off teaching software training, doing software training. So working for a company that designed their own software, and then people bought the software and I went out and trained them how to do it. And I loved that. And it was fun. I got to learn new things all the time. And I was like, I don't I want to teach professional development. I want to teach leadership stuff. I want to teach cool skills and things that people can use in their regular life and their work, not just software. And I just it was it's my passion, it's what I read about, it's what I talk about before I even taught it. And I was like, this is what I want to do. So each job I had, I tried to do a little of that at the jobs, at the training, corporate training jobs I was having. And then finally, probably about 10 years ago, I was like, I'm just gonna do this full time. I don't want to train software, other things, and then do this. I just want this to be my job and w which is learning development, training development. I'm sure you know as a recruiter, it's it's called a million different things talent development, leadership development, career development. But every corporation does some s kind of it, some you know, piece of it. And um so that's a long-winded way of saying uh in between all of that, when I realized how much I love this, I was talking about it and doing these workshops outside of my regular roles at my jobs. And it's my sister Sarah actually who said to me, you know, everything you love talking about could be a a book. I was like, Oh, I could. Like I just, you know, oh what? I mean, there's a million books on leadership development and professional development. What do you mean I I could write a book? I was like, oh, but I love to talk about these particular topics. And that's when it started to I started putting it together and taking my workshops and thinking about how I can apply them to my real life and my work life and to other people's work lives, and that's just how it started.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, that's really cool. And I don't think I I actually said the title, but Peace, Possibilities, and Perspective Eight Secrets to Serenity and Satisfaction in Your Life and Career. Which I'm a huge fan of this because I love I I just like reading books about like personal development. I love to figure out like how can I elevate my daily life? How can I elevate my relationships with friends? How does that translate to my professional space? How do I optimize to be the best in all of these areas? And it seems like that's your passion is really like how can you live the best, most impactful, happiest life? And I guess my next question for you, Julie, is like, how did you create your because there's eight steps, or you know, there's eight parts to it. How did you come up with the curriculum or the or the framing of those eight steps to at the end say, hey, if you do all of these and the incorporate these, this is how you can be the best?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Yeah, it's a good question. It's it's the eight things that I love learning the most about and the reason I think that I'm successful in my life. And for example, one of them's curiosity, one of them's um possibilities. That's why his name is Peace Possibilities, that's the first chapter. Connecting, being good, you know, connecting with people, uh, being resilient is a big, big, big reason that I am where I am. I didn't, I didn't grow up around uh effluence or I have from a big family, we really didn't have much, and I had to figure it all out. And so resilience is a big one too. So so these are the topics that I would read about and that I would know that are helping me. And people would also tell me, you're very resilient, you're very curious, you're very, you know, you can you're very connected to people, you're a good listener, all of that stuff. So it was all those little things. And it was over years of thinking about them, researching, reading about them, and then realizing, ah, this is this is what I do in my life, and this is how I got to where I am. So you read this, the there's stories in the book are all about me and how I got to where I am and things I did to to prove that curiosity is good, helps you in resilience and all that. So it was like these are the things. And when I was putting it all my thoughts down and how because you you work with someone that there's all kinds of people you can pay a lot of money to help you like frame your book. But I was like, these are the things, and each each thing I like talking about can be its own chapter, and then I could just come up with stories about how that thing applies to your life and your career. So that's how it started. And it was an easy way. The eight was the um the guy who helping me edit the book. He's like, it's good to have like something that people like you can pick up and say, Oh, there's eight things. I can do these eight things and I can have this. And to me, it was like yes, these are important, but if I didn't say the eight things, it's it doesn't the the title itself was enough for me. He's like, No, you have to have a little mini thing that says what are you gonna get? What what's gonna be in this book? So that's how it came about. And I love the number eight too. Both my boys are born on the eighth of the month. It's just a good, it's a good um spiritual number too. I was like, okay, that's it. So that's how that's how it came to be eight things.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

That's cool. Yeah, and it is weird how that is. Like I picked on that, picked up on that immediately. I was like, oh, okay, so I need to figure out what the eight things are.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Yes, everyone's brain works differently. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah, it's interesting. But I love so one of the words you kept using, and I'm a big fan of discussing this, is curiosity. I've talked about this with several people on the podcast, and I it makes me think of Ted Lasso on certain segments where he talks about that. Be curious. And with me being in sales, it's another tool I've learned is just how to ask questions, be interested in people before jumping to conclusions on anything. That's kind of a big part of books for guys in general, is be curious. Learn someone's story before you create a narrative that you maybe see on a clip or you watch on the news. You know, there's so many things you can learn in listening to a long segment or reading a book about someone that may change the way you think. I mean, it just it all starts with being curious. And so I love that you emphasize that a little bit in how you just discussed that because again, that's I'm a huge fan of that word. I love talking about it. I love working with people and hearing people with that light bulb kind of clicks when they're like, oh yeah, I just decided to learn more about this person or this thing, and my whole idea of it changed. It's just fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

It's like the spice of life. I think it's a secret to a good leadership too, and just connecting with anyone. Like if you you people say, I'm nervous, I'm not, I'm an introvert, I'm not an extrovert, how do I like just ask people questions because who doesn't want to be asked about themselves and talk about themselves and share their experiences? But if you really are just like, tell me more about that and you you can get to the bottom of things. You can you show interest, you show empathy, you show compassion. But it really is, it keeps you excited to your point, too. It's like, what can I learn more about? Like, not everyone's naturally curious. I have always been curious. I've always like tell me how something's done. I'm like, wow, in the background, how does that work? How do you know that this? And it sometimes it bugs people, you know, like, oh my gosh, you have to know I'm like something about the way my brain works. It is interesting to me. It's behind the scenes. I get it from my dad for sure. I want to know how things work. I don't need to know like this laptop that I'm using right now. I don't need to like take it apart, look at it, and that. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about more simple things and business thing, business things, like, you know, we have to do this. Like, who decided we're doing that? Why are we doing that? What's the impact? What's the, you know, why? What's the outcome? All of that. And it's just a fun way to be and it's a fun way to learn. And and it's always interesting to be around people that are curious too.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah. I can see, I can see how this, your curiosity probably really helped you a lot in training in the software space. Cause I was sitting here thinking, like, if you can train in that space, you can train anywhere because you have to learn a lot before you teach a lot. Yes. In my brain, I'm I'm in technology recruiting, but I don't understand half the stuff. I'm I, you know, I can't break it down to a training method. I just know enough to be dangerous. But to learn the software, I think is highly impressive. But to go back to just like the eight, the eight steps or or topics, I think it's really cool too, is that everything can be learned. So you're saying like someone can use the excuse of I'm an introvert or I can't do this. Like everything can be practiced. Curiosity, you can learn how to ask questions. Um, there's all these things you can, and now it's hard work. Well, not, you know, make it seem like it's just some easy you read this book and you can just change your life. Like you got to implement it and learn how to do it. But if you can learn these things and put the work behind it, it really can change your life. And when you are, when you it leads to being more confident, which can lead to being more comfortable. And it kind of just goes in line with I think what your message you're trying to show people, which is really cool. But it's they're all things you can learn how to do and be great at. And I think that's a really big part of the book and and something that should be shared.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Yeah, there's a common theme too, like the the title, Peace, Possibilities, and Perspective, it's like in general, anything, pretty much anything's possible. I mean, I I'm not saying like you could be Michael Jordan good if you are, you know, five feet one and you're, I mean, you could still probably be in the NBA, and here's how you could get there whatever. But in general, the possi possibilities really are endless if you if you believe. But the curiosity weaving in there is like when people say this is just the way we've always done it, or we have to do it this way, or or we're gonna get on the phone and and do this. Have you thought about doing this? No, I've never thought about that before. Where's that coming from? I don't know. I'm curious. I I did this other thing and it worked out great. And now you have this new idea and this new way of doing things. But if no one ever asked questions or got curious, no one would ever know it's possible. It's like everything that we're looking at on our desks right now, the this microphone that you're using, this platform that you're using to produce this. Someone behind the scenes, one day in their apartment or office or whatever said, What if I can make producing a podcast even easier? And they create came up with this platform, right? Put it all in one thing. It's like that was someone's idea, that was someone's curiosity. And that's what I love talking about it because everything you see was someone's idea imagined at one point in the world, period. It didn't exist until that person observed something or was curious about something and made it possible. So when people say, I don't know, it's like, oh I think it's just like it's one of the most important things you can learn and teach your kids. I don't know if you have kids, but it's like just being curious is it it really is a spice of life.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

100%. 100%. Julie, question for you here is obviously like people can pull up your LinkedIn or your work and they say, okay, Julie's done this, this, and this. Now she has a book. Like life must be so great. What everyone has, you know, everyone sees the highlight reel, but I always love talking about challenges. And some of the challenges, I'm curious to know what were some of the challenges you experienced in trying to transition into what you really wanted to do, which was coaching people on leadership and getting into that consultative role, you know, kind of getting away from the training in the corporate world. And then obviously writing a book is a challenge in itself. But what were some of the, I guess, mountains you had to kind of climb or push through to really create the life and the path that you wanted to get to and are now doing?

SPEAKER_01 12:45

So one of them that comes to mind is um the job I had at the time when I really just wanted to do leadership development training and corporate training in professional development. I saw people doing it at my job at my work. I was creating new things and no one was creating at my work, but it was separate from the job I was doing. And I went to my boss and said, I wanted, I started this thing and talking about some of these topics and and um it was people were very receptive and people were coming to these sessions, and everyone from the company that I didn't know, people I didn't know were coming to me and saying, How are you getting all these people to come to these sessions? And I'm like, Well, I'm just picking topics that are universal and that I think everyone can relate to. And at the time we were a very remote-based company. This is before COVID. And um, I'm like, I'm feeling disconnected from the people that are all across the other side of the world that I talk to once a week on the phone or whatever. I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling this way. Can we talk about something that's gonna connect? So I started, he said, go ahead and do that, but do you have to do your regular job? Yeah, no problem. So then I once I got a little taste of it, I'm like, ooh, I want to do more. Can I do half this and half the other thing? And he's like, uh, it doesn't work like that. You have to be in corporate America, of course. They have to, someone is responsible to pay you in this department and they can't half pay you from this department and half pay you from the other. Of course, in my curious brain, I was like, well, why not? I'm sure I'm not the only person who wishes they could be doing two things that are still gonna benefit the company, but it wasn't an easy enough for me to get what I wanted there. And I was like, okay, that's my first hurdle. Like, I need to figure out how to do this full time somewhere else then, or here or this company. If I went to another department at that company, it wouldn't have been as secure of a job because they were laying people off in some of those areas. And so my boss is like, you can go do that, but that's risky. And I'm like, you're right, that is risky. So I won't do that here. I'll just wait. And so I waited, and then I got another job doing exactly what I wanted to do for a smaller company. It was actually outside Chicago. And I'm like, I'll do that instead. It took a little bit of time, probably about six months. I really was like, I'm doing this, I'm gonna figure it out, and I did it. And then the next challenge was, you know, they hired me and it was a learning development manager, and I was first I was a lead, and then I got promoted. And they wanted, they wanted this stuff, but the person running it did, but not everyone in the company really thought it was valuable. So it was like the next challenge was, okay, you're really good at this stuff and you're helping us build these programs and you're putting out all this content. Now we have to convince people that it's worth it and um why it's important and what the impact's gonna be. So I really had to dig in and say, okay, start really getting all the data that said, like, here's how important it is, and here's why you're doing it, and it's gonna influence not just your career, but the clients that you're seeing and your family and all these other things. So I had to get really smart about I can't just, as you can probably tell, I get excited and passionate about it. But the people that are cutting the checks and the bottom line, running the company, they need to make money, you know, and they want to know what are you doing that's gonna help us move the needle? And hey, happier people at your company are always gonna make your company more money, but that's not easy to quantify. So that was the next, the next hurdle was how do I quantify it? Which is still one of the most common questions I get asked when I'm interviewing for new roles is um, how do you quantify what you do? How do you how do you measure the impact? What's the return on investment? It's like, oh my gosh, this question. It's like, if I could actually give you the formula, I'd be probably I'd be a millionaire. There is no formula. It's just there's there's moving the needle and there's proof in the behavior changes and all of that. But there's no, maybe there is, maybe that's what one day will make me return us, but there really isn't a final answer that would satisfy every person who asks that question. So that's the tough part.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah. No, and I love your passion and energy. I I asked, like, you know, how do you overcome mountains? I feel like you just run through them. You're like, you know, and that that's a skill in itself of just being like, you know, I don't know, I'm probably gonna fail. I'll probably have some setbacks, but I'm I'm gonna figure it out and I'm just gonna make it work. And you just seem like one of those people that no matter what, you're going to make it work.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Which ask questions. Uh, it's just like it's just like with my book. I didn't know how to write a book. I didn't know how to publish a book, I didn't know how to edit a book, I didn't know any of that. So I just sent an email to like 10 people that I respected in the business world and said, I'm writing this book and now I'm committed to doing it because I know I know I need to do it now. Please help me. Like, oh, you can call this person, this person, you need this, you needed that, you need a copywriter, you need ISBN numbers. Just I just sent an email out and I'm just gonna start asking questions. If those 10 people don't know, I'll choose 10 more people. I'll just keep asking, or to your point, I can read a book about it, I can go on the internet, I can go on YouTube. Like there's no one can ever say, I don't know how to do, I don't know how to do that, and where am I ever gonna find information about it? It's like I'm gonna figure it out. And then I set myself timelines and go. I usually just I don't really tell them and write them down. I just say, this is by the end of this year, I want to have this done in my head. And that's just my way of saying, like, I'll feel good if it this day comes and and I'm done with it. So I I do that. It's they're not really stringent. It's just uh, it's for my challenge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Have you always been this driven? Like, did you play sports growing up? Or where do you think you got this resilient attitude from?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I did, I was a cheerleader. My husband would say that doesn't count. I disagree. I was not a competitive I played softball in junior high, you know, but I was not a super competitive, I am not a competitive person. So I probably seem driven and ambitious, and I want to get what I wanted to get done. I see the possibilities, but I'm not super ambitious, like I'm gonna do that. Now I'm writing another book and I'm writing another book. I'm just like, when I decide that I something is important and I mean want to do it and and I have a good reason, I know what the impact is and I know who it's for and why, I do it. And if I don't have the drive that we're talking about to do it, I realize probably don't want to do it as much as I say I want to do it. And a lot of people will get stuck in that. They're like, no, I really want it. It's like, mm-hmm. If you really wanted it, you'd be making time for the thing you say you want it. It really is that simple. You could just do it every day for five minutes and then eventually you'll have it done. But some people just say they just want excuses and they want to have a dream. And or some people just think it's cool to say have a dream and then never really achieve it. So um, but the resilience part of it was just like I had to figure out, and so did everyone, you know, all my siblings. Uh we had to figure things out on our own. Um, there wasn't a lot of time to to sit down and really get help. So it's like, okay, you want that? Like figure out how to do it. You can go get a job, you need money, you do this, you want to go to college, go get the application, fill it out, put it in. I guess uh, okay. So it was kind of uh what's the word um there's a phrase like when you create something, it's because out of necessity, I don't know what what that phrase is, but I had to I had to figure things out if I wanted to get things done. So I did. But I always remember, even when I was younger, just asking a lot of questions. And one of my sons is a lot like that too. And I think it's just I think you're born with it, to be honest. It's nurtured and and like my dad would always he was the one that would always promote it. Like, okay, you're not you're you're wondering about that. Let's go look it up. Let's go get the encyclopedia back in the day, open it up. I don't even know if you know what those are. And then we'll look up this thing that you want to learn more about. We'll go to E for elephant and we'll open the pages and there it will be just like the internet now. Um, so he was always um a big proponent of let's let's let's see, let's see, let's just learn more about it and we'll see. So that was nurtured big time by him.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah. No, and another word that comes to mind, because I'm just I'm I'm thinking of just my situation too, at the word grit, when you can find people that just when you when you know you want something and then you just you put the work behind it. You know you gotta work. Um, and I kind of got that from my mom, always give her credit because I would say, like, oh, I want like these hundred dollar pair of shoes, or I want this. And she'd be like, All right, well, work. Like, go get a job, figure it out, you know? Paint trash cans, do something. And I just remember like figuring out, like, okay, if I want to do this, I guess I gotta go work. But then you realize there is no substitute for hard work. If you'll go put the time in, most of the time you can go get what you want to get. And so I think once people figure that out, it's really cool because then you're not afraid of hard work and you'll like because you're like, oh, I'll just do this and then I can have it.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

And your mom's super smart to say, let's okay, you can have that. But mo a lot of parents these days will just like, here's your silver platter, here's the hundred dollar shoes you said you wanted. It's like they're 15 years old and they got this hundred dollar pair of shoes. I don't even have a hundred dollar pair of shoes, you know? This part but I'm giving them to this kid, and then there's there's no skin in the game. There's no, I'm a um, I just I'm not a big believer in that. I'm a big believer in making sure your kids are happy. But part of happiness is like seeing the challenge, knowing you can do it, having the grit, going forward, and then being proud of your accomplishment because it was on you to figure it out. And I'm sure you want earning those hundred dollar pair of shoes felt a lot better than your mom handing them to you.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

100%. I'm so appreciative of the way they parented me to make me work for things because it did, it was something I noticed growing up with other friend groups on on how different I could handle things versus them, how much I was willing to put in versus them. And then ultimately you kind of see yourself leveling up at a different rate than other people that maybe haven't gone through struggles or you know, tough times where you got to get a little gritty with it to figure it out. And so I'm very much appreciative of that. Julie, just a couple more questions for you. You've been doing this a while, and I'm really curious to know, and I and when I say a while, I'm just thinking of like COVID and and remote work, and then we have social media and we have leaders who are from a time where where maybe it was militaristic style, and now you've got another generation who needs a little bit softer of an approach, you know, and so there's different styles of leaders, I guess. I'm trying to say what is a challenge you've seen in just the last few years on just like what leadership is lacking? Like what do people, what's kind of your main thing you're trying to help with now? Or what or what are some of the things you're seeing where you're like, huh, this wasn't the same problem we had eight years ago. It's different now in the way I consult.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Yeah. Um I it's a good question. I think what's coming to mind is um emotional intelligence. It's kind of a it means a lot of different things to different people, but it's really just like n being self-aware of, you know, and then understanding how other people are and what their needs and all of that. And it's it's like it takes being a good leader, being a good parent, being a good partner or spouse, et cetera. But emotional intelligence, you know, there'll be leaders who this happens a lot in corporations. My most recent one too. You're you promote people because they're really good at what they do, but they have no skills, which is why I will have jobs, is because people don't they're not trained to be managers, they're not trained to be leaders, they're not trained to be with the professional, they're not just you're a really good engineer, so can you go be a manager of all these engineers? You're a really good developer, can you just go manage all these developers? Well, if you have no uh just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're mostly intelligent and curious and and what's another one that like you have integrity, all of those things. If you're really good at your job and no one tells you here's how you're gonna go manage the people, you're gonna do less of your job in that new role as a leader than you would were before. You're gonna be managing people instead of projects and tasks and all of that. And a lot of people don't understand that they just and then they get in the role and then their team falls apart, they're not producing like they used to, that person has a bad attitude, and the person that promoted them is like, I don't know what I don't understand. That person was really good at their job. You forgot to give them the tools they need. And they didn't, it's not like they said, I have them, can I have that job? Usually they're just promoted because it's like the next easiest thing. Um, and they're not, they don't know what to ask for because they've never done it before. So it's like I'm I'm good at my job. I can I can teach people how to do my job. Well, you're not dealing with tasks, you're dealing with behaviors and skills and attitudes and beliefs and all of those things. And if you know nothing about psychology and nothing about leading people, you're gonna you're probably gonna fail. And if you don't fail, you probably just got lucky that you had a lot of good people that were curious, emotionally intelligent, had integrity, they just go do their thing. Um, and that you get sometimes you get lucky, but more often than not, you don't. And and really, really smart leaders will say, we need someone to to teach that and not just one time. It's an ongoing conversation. It might be one-on-one coaching, it might be group stuff, it might be focus groups, you name it, but we need to teach it and be have a consistent program in place to say, okay, and then what's the next thing and what other people need, and ask a lot of questions back to the curiosity and figure out where they know they're lacking because people know when they're not doing a good job. People know when they're not when they're not being not successful, but when they're not being impactful and they're not, they know it. So asking a lot of questions and following up and make and with their managers and the people that are reporting to them, asking for feedback and saying, okay, what's working? We did this, is it better? Is it worse? Um, okay, it's better a little bit, but not what what do you think would be good? And then getting feedback and stuff. So I think the one of the biggest things is people just assume because you are good at what you do, that you can be good at leading people. And I'm sure you're you're in the corporate world. It's it's very if you and Barbie trained to people that are just really, really automatically good at it.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Yeah. Well, it's two two totally different things. It's it's like a whole different job. Yeah, you I guess you can kind of know what your team can be good at skill set-wise, but yeah, when you're talking about, yeah, it it takes a lot of time too to be there emotionally and manage people. I mean, it's it's uh yeah, you you're spot on on that. And I and I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, there's no shortage of work in what you do because there's continuously more companies born, there's new leaders stepping into new roles, and so there's all this need for leadership development out there. Again, I it it fascinates me. I love like seeing traits of certain leaders, and I talk about my leadership all the time. I'm so blessed to work where I work because I have the best leaders. They're just like we say, they're they're curious. They always ask like what they can do for me instead of the other way around. They're like, hey man, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, they're just like I probably had like two people in my whole career ask me what I needed. Literally, I know like it's such an easy thing to do. And yes, you're right, it's such a good feeling too. You're like, oh, what do I need? Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah. Literally, it's the best thing. They're like, hey man, what what do you need from us this week? I'm like, I don't know. What what do you need from me? And they flip the script. But it's it's such a uh it's a trait I've noticed because I've been on the other side too, where I've had leaders where it's it's different. Like you do this, or if you don't, we're gonna have a conversation and you're just like, whoa, what am I doing something wrong? Like, what's going on here? Um, so very refreshing. And I always I always talk about how awesome our leadership is here. But um, Julie, one more question for you. And uh this has been such a fun conversation. I loved I could talk about this all day because I I can learn from it. Like I love hearing just again, I'm I'm in tune. I'm curious. I want to know like how I can be better at things, and I I hopefully that helps me do a good job on a daily basis. But I'm always curious to know, and this is from a book standpoint, yeah. You've read one, I'm sure there are some books that you've read that have been impactful for you. And so I'm curious to know what is a book or two that has had an impact on you personally or professionally, and what's a book that you like to recommend to others?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Read a lot, especially in the last like 10 years. I've read so many. Um, one that's standing out is called The Big Leap. Um, it's by Gay Hendricks. He um he and his wife had this business. He's um how does how old the book is, but it's it's a very I remember reading it and putting it down. There's very few that I would read and then say, Okay, I need to go reread it again. It's just a very impactful professional development, but it's it's teaching you more about yourself and how you set limits and why you don't go past them. So The Big Leap is one, it's another one I've been reading uh recently. Glennon Doyle's book, Untamed. I don't know if you've read any of her books. Um believable writer. So if you read a lot and your audience reads a lot, and she's a woman, but and she's describing, but the way she describes things and challenges and how to see the world and and get through things is she's she's a profoundly good writer.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I'll definitely add that to my list then. Sounds like something I'd be interested in reading for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah, there's so many. I could probably after our conversation, if you want, I can send you probably 10 more for yourself and you can share them with people. But yes, off the top of my head, those two.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, it's kind of an unfair question, but I love to ask because it could be different on what's going on in your life right now. It could be and what your career looks like or where you're at family-wise. And so, but it's always different answers, and I love you know, adding to my list and and just again being curious what are people reading, what's what's popular, what what has meant a lot to you? And I'm always curious, you know, like if there's a book you've read more than once, because if you've read it more than once, then it really had an impact on you. I only have like one or two of those.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

So I try not to do that because I I I'm a big I love going to libraries and seeing all the books because to me it's also like the same thing. Everything that's in that library, someone had an idea and they finally put it down on paper. And to me, that's so inspiring. Like you could have thousands of books in this library, and every single person here sat down one one day over the year, over ten years, and finally put their ideas down. And it's just such so inspiring to me. Um but oh my gosh, now I lost my train of thought about going to libraries, seeing the books.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Just how impactful they are.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

How impactful they are. Yeah, I was never a big reader growing up. I was never a bookworm. I was that girl who was like, I don't really want to study, I want to go out with my friends. I was never one of those people who was like, Oh, I can't wait to read a book. Never, probably until the last 10 years. So now I I read a ton, I love it. And oh, here's my my thought Things l land in your lap exactly when they're supposed to. So um you'll you'll we'll we'll be talking on a book, you'll get off the phone, off our call, you'll go talk to someone else, you'll get on LinkedIn, you're like, oh, someone was just talking about that book, someone else is just talking about the book. Or my friend just told me that they're having a problem with their upper limits, and you're like, oh my gosh, Julie was just telling you about this book, The Big Leap. I'm a big believer in whatever is supposed to land in your lap does at the perfect time. So I either I scramble to read them or I recommend them to someone else, but that's what I love about them too. Like you'll you'll start seeing things and you're like, there's a reason. I three people have had noted that thing for me, and now here's the book that's talking about it. So that's what I love about them too, that they're they inspire you and they get ideas. And I also used to be one of those people that read the book. So I didn't know, I don't know if you know this since you're a book person. This might be an interesting fact. Only 10% of people in the population read a book from cover to cover. Did you know that? Yeah, yeah. So I'm one of those rare people that reads it cover to cover and has almost my entire life. But now I so I used to grab a book and I'm like, I gotta finish it. I started it. I don't want to waste any more time anymore. So if I'm if I'm liking that book, I will read it cover to cover. But sometimes I get into a book and I'm like, I can't. It's too heavy or it's too, it's not what I thought it was gonna be. Like the body keep the score is a very always very um recommended, but it's it's so dense and heavy. I'm like, I I can't get through it. I probably could like over a year, but I'm not gonna do it. There's too many books.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Maybe at a later time.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah. And now I don't have that compulsion anymore to have to finish it. If it's not what I need and I'm not getting what I want out of it, I don't feel like I have to finish it because I started it. I feel like it's almost like I'm not doing them justice if I don't finish it, but I don't I don't have that, I don't have that compulsion anymore.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Yeah. Me, me and you have had very similar experiences because it took me a while too to realize like I don't have to finish this if I'm not getting anything from it. There's millions of books out there that I can be getting something from. So I had to switch my brain and be like, hey, the the longer you read this one, the less you're gonna be able to get something that you need from one you actually are interested in. So like put it down, change it up.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

And there's a limited amount of time. It's not like you just sit around and read all the time. Okay, maybe, but it's like, no, this is your time's valuable. Yeah. Don't roast it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

We got stuff to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Well, Julie, this has been fantastic. Thank you. You've got me motivated. I'm over here, like, all right, let's go. What do I got to do to what mountain can I run through right now so I can keep you know stepping up and leveling up? But no, Julie, thank you so much for for sharing your energy, your passion, your story. We've got your book on the website now, and obviously, like in the meeting notes, we'll put links for people to follow you and find your book. And uh I I don't know what you're gonna accomplish it, but you have so much energy and passion. It's gonna be exciting to see everything you do, and maybe there will be more books in the future, which would be awesome. But no, Julie, this has been awesome, and thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yes, it's been a pleasure.