Secrets of Giants | Alyssa Ages on Strength Training, Mindset, and Resilience

Chris sits down with author, journalist, strength athlete, and strongwoman competitor Alyssa Ages to discuss strength training, discipline, failure, resilience, mindset, journaling, personal growth, and how becoming physically stronger can completely change the way you move through life.

Alyssa shares her journey from avoiding sports and believing she was “not athletic” as a child to eventually becoming deeply involved in endurance sports, CrossFit, and the world of strongman and strongwoman competition. The conversation dives into fear, self belief, pushing through discomfort, and the life lessons learned through lifting heavy things and intentionally doing hard things.

Throughout the episode, Alyssa discusses:
 • Her journey into endurance sports and strength training
 • Why failure is essential for growth
 • The mental side of lifting and competing
 • Discipline versus motivation
 • The importance of journaling and tracking progress
 • How strength training changes confidence and self perception
 • Why people need to intentionally do hard things
 • The lessons strongman competition teaches about life
 • Overcoming fear and negative self stories
 • The connection between physical strength and mental resilience

Chris and Alyssa also explore:
 • Strongman and strongwoman culture
 • The rise of strength training for women
 • Why modern life has become overly automated and comfortable
 • The importance of pushing through resistance and discomfort
 • Parenting, confidence building, and helping kids embrace failure
 • The psychology of performance and overcoming fear
 • How small consistent habits create long term growth

One of the most powerful moments of the conversation comes when Alyssa explains how strength training completely changed the way she views herself and the world around her. Instead of seeing obstacles as intimidating, she began viewing herself as someone capable of handling hard things — physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Books discussed during the episode include:
 • Secrets of Giants
 • Open by Andre Agassi
 • The Tender Bar

https://www.alyssaages.com/about

If you are interested in books, strength training, fitness, personal growth, discipline, resilience, leadership, mindset, journaling, strongman competition, or learning how to become mentally and physically stronger, this episode is packed with insight and inspiration.

Subscribe to Books4Guys for conversations focused on books, leadership, mindset, wellness, entrepreneurship, fitness, discipline, storytelling, and helping people become better readers, thinkers, leaders, and professionals. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Alyssa, like I said, super excited. I should have pushed record right when we started. I was uh I was telling you, I I'm not sure how I came across your profile on LinkedIn, but obviously saw your background in your book, Secrets of Giants. I want to make sure I say the title of it. But you being a part of the world strongest man, world strongest women community out there. And uh, I was telling you my wife's a personal trainer and her focus is on strength training for women, which is super cool. So I was telling her that I was talking with you today and she was super excited about that. And then I was telling you, Evan T-Rex, you know, works out at our gym. We've just we've been kind of reintroduced to this space, and then I came across your story and I was like, I gotta reach out to Alyssa and see if I can have her on the podcast. So thank you for taking the time today to come on here and talk with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, I'm super excited to chat with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah. Well, Alyssa, dive in and just tell, tell an overview of your story because I've looked at a lot of, you know, just your background, if I've been researching for this conversation, but how did you get into lifting and find a passion for trying to become as strong as you can? And talk about just some of the struggles maybe along the way that led you to writing your book.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, it is an extremely nonlinear path to how I found the sport of strongman. I was, I guess, like when I was little, little, I was, you know, as sporty as the next kid. But then I was about 10 years old and was playing little league of baseball. And I had this very strong memory of like never hitting the ball at any point in time. My team won the championship, but I don't remember contributing at all. And I remember this kind of mortifying moment of like winning the MVP game ball for getting hit with the ball and getting an automatic walk onto first base. And it, you know, I think for some kids, they might have gone, I want to get better at this. Like, this is a sign I should just work harder. And I didn't. I kind of went the other way and was like, this is a sign that I am not good at sports. I'm not good at this sport, and I'm probably not athletic in general. And so I was, it just kind of avoided sports for as long as humanly possible. You know, I cut gym classes when there was baseball because it felt traumatic to me and, you know, all this ridiculous stuff. And then um, I was in my early 20s working my one of my first jobs, and I had to play a corporate softball game. Like there was just no choice. Like everyone was doing it. It was also a sport-related job. And I remember I got up to bat and I swung for the ball and I hit it and I got on. I don't even actually remember if I got on base, but I know that I hit the ball. And when I had a chance, I kind of went to the side of the field and I called my mom. I was like, after all of those like childhood swings and misses, I just hit the ball. Like, this is the greatest moment ever. And I remember my mom kind of had this like tempered excitement about it. And I couldn't figure out why. And she goes, That's great. She's like, but it's not that you always swung the bat and missed the ball. She was like, You never swung the bat. You would just stand there like frozen in fear with the bat in your hands. And it was this real kind of moment for me of, you know, realizing that I'd spent like a decade telling myself this story about who I was and what I could do that was based on something that was completely untrue. And so I took that and I said, okay, what else have I missed out on? What can I do? And decided to quite literally swing at everything. So the first thing I did was I decided I'm gonna run a marathon. My dad was a marathon runner, you know, not I'm gonna run a 5K, like I'm gonna run a marathon. Um, and obviously I did some, you know, 5Ks and 10K's in training for it, but did that marathon, cross the finish line. Actually, to be fair, the first time I was training for one, I got injured. And I suppose I guess I could have seen that as a similar setback and just gone, well, I'm not good at running either. But I had this new mindset and I went, no, I'm gonna keep doing this. And I ended up running like six marathons. And then I went, okay, what's next? Well, I can't swim for shit, but like, let's do a triathlon and like threw myself in the pool, taught myself how to swim and did triathlon. And then went, okay, well, what's the next biggest triathlon I can do? And ended up doing the Iron Man. And then you finished the Iron Man, and I was like, okay, that was eight months of doing the same thing over and over again. What's next? And I walked into a CrossFit gym. And I can't even express it. I loved it immediately. I was not good at it. I had no mobility because I was a runner. Um, I didn't know what I was doing, but I had a great gym that taught me. And I just remember how different it felt to have like a win every single day, especially when you're new, right? Because the weight goes up very, very quickly. And then I had a friend in my morning class who said, I think you might like this strongman class that I take on Saturdays. And I was like, it like carrying like refrigerators on our backs. And so, what do you mean? And she said, No, no, no, just come. And so I went to that gym and I remember day one, we did uh metal log over our heads. And then towards the end, we got to pick up an Atlas stone and it was 90 pounds. And the first time I picked it up, it just fell. And I thought, oh man, I don't even want to look up at people. This is so embarrassing. But I decided I would try it again and I got it up to my shoulder. And I so clearly remember and I have a photo of this, this moment of having that on my shoulder and thinking, this is life-changing. This is something where, you know, you are moving what seems like an immovable object. Where else in your life do you get to do that? And I've been doing that for over a decade now. And I, you know, I'm not this year, I'm not competing, but I don't see myself stopping this sport anytime soon. This this feels like the one.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Yeah. I love that. And I love the it sounds very similar to my wife as I've sitting here thinking, because you're you, she's the same way. It's like she accomplishes something and it's like, what's next? What's next? Whereas I'm like, why don't we just enjoy the the CrossFit gym for a while, you know? And uh it's funny you mentioned that too. You know, I'm a former athlete, wife is too. We met through kind of a CrossFit gym, and like you, I was addicted from day one. I think it was because I played football and like I was needing someone to tell me what to do. And then you're in there with other people and you're all you're all struggling together, you're all winning together. Like the community aspect of it was what I really enjoyed, but also just like it it scratched the competitive itch a little bit too. Um, because you want to, you know, selfishly be better than someone next to you while also cheering them on. It's a very unique uh environment there. But super cool that you found something that you're gonna stick with for a while and you've been working towards getting better at and better at. But I know along the way you've had your challenges, and and I know you write about that in your book. What were or what are some of those challenges that you've had to overcome and are still working to overcome?

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, I mean, a big one for me was sort of understanding what I guess my feelings towards failure were, um, especially because that was what, but it stopped me for that entire decade from doing anything. And strength sports in particular are an exercise in failure. You can't do it well if you're not willing to fail, in very large part because you don't know, you know, oftentimes you're asked to find your one rep maximum, right? The heaviest weight you can move for something, which you can't figure that out until you fail at it. Right. So let's say you're like, okay, I think it's 200 pounds on my deadlift, and you go and you have to try to lift 200 pounds, right? And then you go, oh, okay, nope, I'm not there yet. I failed at that one, but you don't walk out of the gym, right? You go, all right, let's try, I don't know, 190. And you go back and then you have this thing to work towards, but you have to be willing to screw it up at first. And as I was kind of figuring that out with my book, one of the hardest things for me was overhead pressing. I think I got in my head about it and um I started to work with a performance psychologist in part because I wanted to learn about myself for the book, but in part because I was training for a national competition and I really wanted to do well in it. And she said, for you, it's not this fear of failure itself, right? She was like, for you, it's that you don't want to do all the things you know you have to do to give it your best shot. Because if you do and you fail, then you have to face the fact that you just you're not ready for that thing yet. Right. Like you're not, that's not something you can do yet. And you don't want to face that. You would rather create these kind of excuses by just going, oh, the weight felt heavy or I felt scared, or you kind of come up with these other things when you know, nope, it's what you have to do is, you know, elbows up high and all these other things. And so that was really, really useful for me. And one of the things that we worked on together was writing down very clear, inarguable cues for any of those lifts that were scary. So that when I stepped out there, I couldn't let my brain take over and go, oh, that weight's scary. Oh, this feels too heavy. It's just the only thing you're allowed to think about right now is I don't know, like short dip, elbows up for this press. That's it. And um, I still that's something I still use outside of the gym too. I'm a uh freelance journalist, is one of the things that I I do one of my main jobs. And you pitch things and they're rejected constantly, right? And so you gotta go, that's not about me. That's not personal. That's this thing was wrong with it or this thing was wrong with it, and I can fix that next time. And that really shifts how I see failure on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah. There's two things I've caught on to what throughout what you've been talking about. One is the overcoming fear and just the the mental hurdle of that, and the other is writing things down and journaling. To the first part, isn't it so amazing that when you do accomplish something hard or you do overcome something hard, just like the snowball of momentum, and and you said it perfectly earlier, you're like, I just start doing everything because like I can overcome this thing that I've been so afraid of for so long. Like, what else can I do? But it's amazing. You you just kind of like if you can flip that switch and all of a sudden you're like, you just don't care anymore if you fail or struggle at something, you're like, I'll figure it out, like I'll do it. And I know I can do it, but it just seems like, and I'm really fascinated with people who are high achievers or ultra successful. They just seem to have that like, I don't care if I lose or fail attitude. It just doesn't matter to them at all. They're not embarrassed by it, they don't care, like they know they're going to figure it out. And I read about that, and I hopefully I sharpen my brain to take that approach too, because it's such a powerful thing and exciting thing when you do it. The other is the journaling part. And I saw where you did all, I mean, you New York Times, GQ, like you write for all kinds of formats and and all kinds of things, which is really awesome. But I've had so I've had a few guests on recently. One's a former NFL All-Pro athlete, and like our entire conversation was about him journaling and just the importance of like he was he was an all-pro fullback, but he was also cut 12 times in his career. Wow. So he would write things down and figure out like, okay, what did I feel in this moment? Okay, if I'm not doing well during that time, how what do I need to do to change that? But he was just and he just put a book out there of a whole journaling season. But he was like, I can't stress enough the importance of like writing things down so you can go back and and see what that was like during that time, or it just creates moments and memories and just it propels you in a way that it's hard to really explain. But you know, you're not it's just fascinating. I keep hearing the importance of writing things down over and over again. And there's something to that.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

I agree. Absolutely. I think, you know, that that's why we always tell lifters to journal their to write about their lifts, right? Because it gives you a chance to see how far you've come. And that's really important in just your general motivation and also kind of, you know, believing in what you can do next.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. Alyssa, when people read your book and they, I know it's there's a few different things to it. It's partly your journey, there's research involved. What are some tricks that you, and I I know you said writing things down was one of them that you could kind of create a kind of a circuit change of direction where it's like you can't think of this this way, you know, you got to ship that. But what are some tricks, what are some other tricks, I guess, or methods, strategies that you talk about in the book?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, I mean, I think a really big one, and I don't know that I talk about it a tremendous amount, but I do think it's really important is, and especially in the world of I was gonna say sports, but really it's anything, is prioritizing discipline over motivation. So I think motivation is like kind of useless. Like maybe it gets you to the gym the first time, right? But it's not gonna get you out of bed every day. So for me, like I don't want to wake up at 5:30 and train. But if like that day is a training day and my alarm goes off at 5 30, I've just made it habitual that I just get up. Unless I've had a really garbage night of sleep and I don't think I'm gonna do well or I'm gonna hurt myself or whatever it is, I'm up. I'm up and I'm doing it and I just walk down and I have a gym in my garage. So it's easy for me to say that. But I just I get up and I go and I do the thing, and then the thing is done, and then I move on with the rest of my day. Um, and I really I think that is such a crucial thing to think about. Someone who I've been talking to a lot recently, because we've been working on a book together, which they'll be hopefully like we're announcing that sort of soon. But um, I've been working with Mitchell Hooper on his book, and he talks a lot about, and he was he just one world's strongest man for any of your listeners who don't know that. Um and he talks about even at his level, he's like, I don't want to get up and go to the gym. That's not like I would be happier if I was just like laying in bed eating ice cream and watching random TV shows, but it's just something you do. It's this thing that you make for yourself as a non-negotiable. And I often tell people when I write articles about this, you know, put it in your calendar because it's in a then it's an appointment with yourself. And you're not gonna miss that appointment in theory.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, I love talking about discipline. Just the discipline is like wanting something more than what you feel like in that moment, and and just making yourself go do it. And and again, I I keep talking about my wife, but it's so cool. We bounce these things off each other. And I'm I'm gonna ask you a question because this is something we've discussed lately, as we, you know, I feel like we're pretty driven individuals, you know, pretty, pretty disciplined for the most part. And watching, I don't know if it's like the day and time or or just like social media and stuff, but it seems like there's like less of a lack, like there's a lack of, I don't want to say motivation, but like discipline to want to accomplish things. It just seems like some people are just maybe existing instead of living. And then there's there's not a lot of, you know, and I you try to surround yourself with people who are like-minded and they're driven and stuff, but there just seems to be people out there too that I'm like, what are what is their mission? Like, what are they wanting to do? You know, and you just want to like talk to them and be like, hey, you have a gift in there, like, you know, go figure it out. Have you ever looked into that too? And and I know maybe not because of like you're such a driven individual. I think it probably it drives other people crazy when you see people like that. And I know this is a very like convoluted question, but do you see that from your side too, of like just people having a harder time overcoming hurdles than they used to?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Or yeah, I mean, listen, almost everything is is easier and more automated for us now, right? So there's very few things, and it it goes down to even the smallest of things, like, oh, I can't remember the name of that song. I can just I can go online and I can chat GPT. Like there's just we don't have the same hurdles we had before. So I do think some of that is not everyone's fault. It's just we now have systems in place to make that easier. And as humans, we are always gonna go for the thing that's easier, right? I one of the things that actually drives me crazy is I I really am not a big fan of the concept of manifesting or secreting stuff or whatever. Cause I think it takes the credit away from you as a person, right? If you say, I manifested this job that I got, right? Like, no, you didn't. You got you applied for that job. In theory, you wrote a good looking resume and cover letter, and then you got interviewed for that job. And in theory, you did a really good job at that interview, and then you got that job. So the fact that you wrote it down in a journal somewhere and said you wanted it isn't the reason you got it.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Like the universe didn't just have somebody call you and go, hey, here's a job for you. You had to do all the work to get there. So I'm not, you know, against writing down your goals, but that's a totally different thing. And so that's that to me feels like a bit of a kind of current social media thing of I'll just put this thing out in the universe and it'll happen.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Because again, if it does happen, you're not giving yourself the credit for it. And if it doesn't happen, you have this very easy excuse. So I I wrote it down and it just, I don't know, it didn't work. And it it means you don't feel like you have to work for it.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Right. And I always say, and to relate that back to weightlifting, it's sort of like the weight on that barbell isn't just gonna fly up in the air because I want it to. It's gonna fly up in the air because I trained for it, I warmed up properly, I remembered my cues, I did all the things that I was supposed to do. And then, yes, I was focused enough and dialed in enough to also execute on that.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

But all those things have to work together.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yep. And you described that perfectly. That's exactly what I was trying to portray in my words was the automation part of things. And you almost have to, like as humans now, we almost have to force ourselves to do hard things just to do it. Like, you know, ordering groceries, like, you know, this week, let's go to the store and and pick out our food. Or, you know, instead of having someone mow the yard, do it yourself. Like, there's just all these things that can make things so cook, ordering meals that are pre-cooked, like there's so many things that make life easy. And then it kind of gets ingrained of, oh, if this is hard, how can I find an easier way? When really you should maybe flip that and say, like, hey, I'm gonna do do these things and make it hard on myself so that I continue to sharpen myself and grow. And it's the same correlation, like you said, with strength training or any sort of athletic ability. Like, you gotta do hard things against resistance so that you can get better and better and better. And I think that's just I just I don't know, maybe it's just personal. Like I see that in people nowadays where everyone's looking for just the easy path, myself included, and I gotta catch myself and say, like, no, I need to like make this harder on myself. Yeah. I I don't know. And I and I'm sure I don't know how people how you can uh mass adopt trying to do hard things, but I like that you're out there sharing your story because it encourages that.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Well, that's the thing, right? It's like when you purposely do this is such a strange way to relate it back to, but I remember this so strongly from like middle school and high school. I remember finding out that the practice tests for like the SATs were gonna be significantly harder than the SATs because it's supposed to feel easier the day of because you did the hard thing in advance. That applies to everything else in your life. The more you choose to do really tough shit on purpose, the easier everything else is gonna feel when you have to go do that. Right. You give yourself the intentional difficulties so that all the stuff that you can't control feels a little bit easier to manage. And on the flip side of that, if you choose to only do the easy way out of everything, every tough thing that comes your way is gonna feel so much harder. Right. So I can just to again relate it back to strength training. If I know that I can put 150-pound stone on my shoulder, the fact that like carrying my 50-pound kid from the playground two blocks because she's screaming and I gotta get her home, that would feel so daunting otherwise. But now I'm like, okay, I can do that. I can't, I can get that's that's fine. That is manageable, you know?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yeah. No, I love that. And I even look at like my work of like balancing work, books for guys. It's been really cool because I I sometimes people are like, dude, you're doing so much. And I'm like, yeah, like six months ago, a lot of this felt super overwhelming. But now, like my days, I'm like, oh yeah, no big deal. Edit this and this, call this person, da-da-da. And it's like things just get easier the more you put yourself in those situations to have to just grind and grow. And it's just a really, I can't like phrase it enough, how good it feels. And then I hope this conversation, you know, inspires people to to take that same approach because it it just it there's nothing better. And I'm sure even you, you know, doing some coaching as well, like seeing people overcome things, there's just not a better feeling to experience that.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

But Alyssa, just a couple more questions for you. You know, as people read your book, and I'm super excited that you said you're working on another one, uh, can't wait to see what that is.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Well, it's I'm ghostwriting it.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah. But still, it's part of a part of another book. Can't wait to see what that is and and to share and experience that. But for people who read your book, Secrets of Giants, if they take nothing else away from it but one nugget, what do you hope they take away from it?

SPEAKER_02 21:53

I hope, and I know we've touched on this, but I really I hope people find opportunities to face. And to chase failure. I didn't do that for such a long time. And I think that, you know, that impacted my childhood, my adolescence. And now as a mom of two kids, I really try to push them to do those things that they're uncomfortable doing so that they have those opportunities to screw it up and then go, okay, well, the world didn't end, you know, and let me figure out how to fix this. Let me figure out how to get better at this. My older daughter really didn't like soccer, which is fair. I didn't like soccer as a kid. But to be fair, nobody said, well, let's have you keep doing it for a bit and just practice it. And so we kind of broke down what she didn't like. And one of the big things was she didn't like the competing part of it. She didn't want to be doing an actual game. And I was like, okay, well, in case you ever want to, let's do a clinic. Do something where you learn the fundamentals of the sport and you get better at the basics of it. So if you do decide you want to actually do it or you are in a situation in like gym class where you have to do it, you're not going, oh my God, I can't do this. You walk in there going, I have the tools to do this because I took the opportunity to find them. I took the opportunity to learn this thing. And I think that's really, really important. That applies to lifting, that applies to anything else, right? I mean, we talk about you can't expect to be able to put your 30-pound luggage in the overhead bin if you never put 30 pounds over your head in any other setting. I, as a freelance journalist, I pitched the New York Times 10 times before I got my first article with them. Through that process, I learned what went into a better pitch. And I got better at those and I got better at those. And eventually I landed something. So you gotta kind of, you have to be okay with screwing something up so that you learn how to get better at it next time.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Yeah. Love that. Love that. And actually, I've got two more questions. I had one more, but one of them just came to mind. And I would love to know just your opinion on or your message behind why do you think being strong is important? Because I've thought about this too, and it I've thought about it in a funny way. Um and I think it's uh it helps me with discipline to be in the gym more. And I I take it as like, it's my responsibility to be strong. And I think in and this is kind of a crazy scenario, but I'm like, if my family's ever in danger, I better be the one able to kick ass and protect them. And I'm and I'm saying I'm people too, I'm like, you lazy people are gonna appreciate us fit people one day with your trouble, you know, and you're gonna rely on us to take care of you. But and I know it goes deeper than that, but what is your message behind why it's important to be a strong human physically?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah. I mean, aside from all of the science-y stuff we know, like it gives you stronger bones, which as a woman is just wildly incredibly important as we get older. It allows you to live independently for longer because strength training helps you build better balance, better stability. It makes sure that, you know, you are less likely to fall. And then because you've built those strong bones, if you do fall, you're less likely to break a hip and suddenly need someone to take care of you. Um I also think it just, and this is for everybody, I think it changes the way you see the world. Like I walk down the street so differently as a person who is strong. And I remember that from that first moment in that strongman gym. I remember walking out of there and going, I think I could lift that giant concrete barrier if I wanted to, and I worked hard enough for it. And that is such a different way to go through life than thinking, you know, oh, I can't do this task that might come in front of me. If somebody needs to move something in their house, I'm the person they called. They don't call my husband, they call me. I love that. I think that is the coolest thing in the whole world. And I don't ever want to feel like I like I can't do that. I can move, you know, I can move my stuff into a moving truck, which I did once. I remember very clearly moving out of my New York City apartment and we had these big boxes of books. And uh my husband had brought down a box of them and it was sitting at the base of the truck. And we didn't have one of those little ramps that went up, and the truck bed was at about this height, and the box was really heavy, and I stood there and I was like, all right, what do I do? And then I went, oh, Atlas Stone. And I put my hands underneath it and I hugged it into my chest, and I went like this and I pushed it onto the truck bed. You feel so different and you see the world so differently when you know that like you're the person that rescues you. You're the person that does the thing, you're the person that can handle the hard tasks or the heavy weight in front of you. That is a really amazing way to go through life. And I hope that I hope that's something people take away from any conversation that I have with them about this.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah. I love that. I love that. Alyssa, the last question for you. And I ask everyone this question just from a from a book standpoint. I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and what's a book that you like to recommend to others?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Um this is so easy for me. I read um when I started ghostwriting, I read Open, which is Agassiz' memoir. But I started to read it because it was ghostwritten and I wanted to understand like what is it like to embody someone else's voice? But it is you don't have to know anything about tennis or like anything about tennis. I don't really know much about tennis to appreciate the way that this story was done, how raw he was, how vulnerable. You learn so much about him as a person, but you learn a lot about what it means to tell a good story and what it means to, I guess, again, you know, be somebody who is open to, you know, kind of screwing up and then coming out of it, being better for it. I I feel like I tell people to read that book constantly. And it's yeah, that is one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Love that. I think I've got that one on the website actually. I think it's one of the first ones I put on there. And I actually haven't read it yet. I need to because I've heard great things about it, and you're like the third person to recommend it. So which means I I probably need to start that one next.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

You should read it and you should read the book that so his ghostwriter had written his own memoir first. Um, and it's called The Tender Bar. That is Agassi read that book and then said, I want this guy to write my book. So both of those I think are are really amazing.

unknown 28:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Those to my list. Try to knock those out next because yeah, it sounds like something I'd be extremely interested in reading. So, but Alyssa, no, this has been fantastic. Again, I was so excited to to talk with you, and it even exceeded expectations because I I could talk about these topics all day long. Sports, athletics, like that's just the world that I love and you love. I just it's so much fun to to communicate about just the different aspects and thoughts and mental side and physical, so much to it that you can find interesting and learn from. But no, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. And and now that we've met, I I know you've got so many more things you're going to accomplish, whether that's competing or storytelling or whatever you decide to do. And so it'll be really exciting to follow your work and see what all you continue to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Thank you. Thank you for reaching out to me. And this was a great conversation. Thank you for all the thoughtful questions.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Absolutely. Thanks, Alyssa.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

Thank you.