Life After the NFL | Maurice Williams on Identity, Purpose, and Transition

Chris sits down with former NFL offensive lineman, author, coach, speaker, and chaplain Maurice Williams to discuss football, identity, purpose, faith, leadership, transition after sports, mentorship, mental health, and the lessons learned from life both during and after the NFL.

Maurice shares his incredible journey from winning a national championship at Michigan alongside legends like Tom Brady and Charles Woodson to spending nearly a decade in the NFL with the Jacksonville Jaguars. The conversation dives deep into the emotional and mental transition athletes face when their playing career comes to an end and the inspiration behind his powerful book When the Game Is Gone.

Throughout the episode, Maurice discusses:
 • Life playing in the NFL with the Jacksonville Jaguars
 • Memories of teammates like Byron Leftwich, Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith, and Tony Boselli
 • Winning a national championship at Michigan
 • The adrenaline and emotional highs of professional sports
 • The challenge athletes face after retirement
 • Identity, purpose, and finding meaning beyond the game
 • Mental health, relationships, and personal growth
 • Transitioning from athlete to coach, mentor, and chaplain
 • The inspiration behind his book When the Game Is Gone
 • Helping athletes, military personnel, and leaders navigate major life transitions

Chris and Maurice also explore:
 • NIL and the changing landscape of youth sports
 • The pressure modern athletes face through social media and money
 • Why multi sport athletes often develop better long term
 • Leadership, stewardship, and mentoring young athletes
 • Faith and personal development
 • Coaching high school football and shaping young men
 • The importance of reading, learning, and continuous growth

One of the most powerful moments of the conversation comes when Maurice explains that professional athletes, military veterans, executives, and leaders often experience many of the same emotional struggles when transitioning out of a major role or identity. His message reminds listeners that life does not end after one chapter closes and that purpose can continue evolving long after the spotlight fades.

Books discussed during the episode include:
 • When the Game Is Gone
 • Quiet Strength by Tony Dungy
 • Every Man’s Battle
 • The Bible

If you are interested in football, leadership, faith, personal growth, mentorship, sports psychology, mental health, identity, coaching, transition after sports, or learning how to navigate life changes with purpose, this episode is packed with wisdom and inspiration.

Subscribe to Books4Guys for conversations focused on books, leadership, sports, mindset, faith, wellness, entrepreneurship, personal growth, and helping people become better readers, thinkers, leaders, and professionals. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

You know, surgery on that as a as a young younger player and then in college, you know, hamstring stuff. But really, my wife decided she wanted to run a half marathon recently. So I started training with her. And I'm I'm good running three to four miles. But then when it got to seven, eight, nine, man, something happened. And I was like, this is exactly what caused this back issue was this long distance running that I was not built for.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yeah. Your buddy, like, what you doing to me?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

No, so it's been tough to stop. But like you, you know, you want to keep working out, you want to keep being active. And sometimes you gotta be like, all right, I don't need to do that much weight anymore, or that's right, run that far. But no, Maurice, man, I'm so excited to have you on the Books for Guys podcast. And I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. As we were talking a little bit before I push record, as you know, big big sports fan myself, uh, you know, a lot of people that that listen and watch this, big sports fans too. Man, you've got a book out, which is awesome, and I think it speaks to a lot of, you know, not just for athletes, people going through transition in in any part of their life that they've done, you know, what if they've done something for a long time and they're trying to figure out something new, it's always uh man, it's a journey to figure out the the best way to approach that and and to do that. And so I think what you've written is is awesome, especially like being a former NFL athlete yourself uh with the Jacksonville Jaguars. And man, I was looking back, I was thinking like growing up watching the the Jaguars during your tenure, I was like, oh, that's Byron Lefwich, David Gerrard, and uh you got the block for those guys, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Absolutely. It was um let's go back and just and go down memory lane and just um when you're walking in it, you don't realize how special it is because you just that's just what you do. But just going back, recognize I'm playing with guys like Baselli and Mark Brunel, Byron Lefwich, Fred Taylor, Jimmy Smith. I mean, these these names, all guys would be considered for Hall of Fame one day, summoning the greatest in franchise history. And um battling with your brothers, man, it's um those are special memories. And and um it's cool. It's like as we'll talk about later, you kind of reflect, like playing sports allows you to do some some unusual but fun, adventurous things. And sometimes that's hard to replace because it's kind of it's hard to get in front of a hundred thousand people again and just give everything you have to go win a game. Yeah. So finding what you're next is sometimes can be a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah. No, and you're right, it's hard to explain the feeling you have when you're playing, and it also, you know, looking back, time goes by so much faster than you thought it would. And uh you miss those times, but it's you appreciate those times with again being in the locker room with your teammates and just the struggle, the triumphs, like it's all just great, great memories and great, great moments that's hard to replace, specifically as you transition out of that, you know, which is which is what your book's about, and I've got it pulled up here when the game is gone, transitioning to life after sports with faith, purpose, and identity. Maurice, just kind of to kick things off about your book, what what did you see personally that led you to to wanting to write this book and then seeing a purpose for it, and and what's been your mission behind it?

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Yeah, uh, thanks for asking that question. I think um probably not long story, but really um when I got done, I was at my church's um Bible schools, not accredited. And um during that time, I was I just had this knowing I was supposed to write the book, I write a book. And I even had a title um that I had, and I was just like, okay, when the game is gone. Like I'm gonna write this book. But really, for my for me, looking back, that was probably maybe a year or two removed from playing a National Football League. And I always wondered why I couldn't finish the book and what a timing wasn't right. I had the what, like what I was supposed to do, but I actually needed to go through the steps of transition. Um, specifically, as time will go past, I remember one day walking, I put this story in the book as well. I remember walking to Panera, just going to, this is usually going to pick up the family meal. I'm in line, I got about four people ahead of me. Instantly, it's like for the first time, which I felt like I was hearing like the audible verbal voice of God, and I can feel his compassion and love like I've never felt before. And it was revealing to me his heart for former players and knowing that he still loves them just as much as when they are done as when they are playing. And I remember it happened, I'm like, man, what is this? So I pull out my iPhone and and I start going to the notes section, trying to write down what I'm hearing and feeling and expressing. And I was like, I'm looking around like nobody else around me, kind of kind of sensing this. Like, this is crazy. And I didn't know what to do with it. So I started a Bible study and I just started meeting with guys and really working through the subject of um transition, which I really realized was bigger than what I even really imagined.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, no, and I I'm curious to know, just kind of like the reception you've gotten from your book, just because again, like I as a fan, you see interviews and and guys that in, you know, their time is done. And there's always that common theme of like, man, I don't know what to do next, or you know, this is all I've known. And for some guys, that it truly is what they've eaten, slept, breathed their entire life from a young man through the NFL. And when that time comes, it's a reality smack that you know some guys just aren't ready for. So, what what are some things that you talk about to help players through that transition to find their purpose? I mean, what are some things you cook can coach guys on to help with that?

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah, well, absolutely. I think one of the things this book brings a fresh perspective is sometimes we only know our story. And so one of the things I've I've learned or seen so far is that that really wasn't even considered when I wrote the book, just how much this story correlates to people in military. Because oftentimes the badge that they wear and their sense of service for a country, once that ends, whether it's through injury, um, for whatever reason they had to leave the service, they they often are having the same feelings that athletes are going through. And so I've heard back from a lot of not only just athletes, but military leaders. And um, I think a gentleman from the Wounded Warrior, just like, hey, I'm reading your book now, we're gonna get back to you soon. But this title caught my eye and uh just through one of my LinkedIn connections. And so in leading people through, like, what are some of the things I think this book will help, especially for um believers or don't maybe you don't even have a relationship with God, it is this, but it's getting to this place to understand, like, whatever you just walked out of, that was just one chapter. Like our lives has many chapters, and there's many doors that are gonna open up. And and one thing that is cool about our guy, he is not a one-trick pony. He will open up doors and opportunities and show you things that and have you doing things you never imagined because you were just so focused, locked in, laser focused on that one season. And that's one of the cool things I've discovered since being done is like, man, there's so many things that I can do, but there's also so much purpose that I can live for, live for. And so, not only just military people, athletes, coaches, business leaders, I think this um this book that God had put on my heart to write, it really uh is impacting a lot of different people from a lot of different spheres because we all have to deal with this subject of transition. Like sometimes you try to control the narrative, like I'm gonna go out like this, but oftentimes something happens, you need, man, I didn't think that I was gonna be removed from my place like that. I didn't think that they was gonna replace me. And so there is, as you go through the stories, I think you get here from like kind of some of my personal journey, but you also kind of get the perspective of what a lot of um NFL players have been had to had the challenge of navigating. And the challenge of the, of, of watching or listening to the stories of NFL players, some people have a hard time um connecting with that story sometimes because I'm like, what are you talking about? You had all this, you had the money, you had the fame. Like, what's the big deal? Like, at the end of the day, whether they're playing National Football League players, whether they're the top CEO pulling in five million dollars a year, they're still human. That's right. They still they still are people. And and then they need to know that God has a story for them just like everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

That's right. That's right. And I love that you shared a couple different messages there. One, I was really cool that you mentioned getting a lot of feedback from military personnel. It's been cool. I've had a couple former military leaders on this podcast who have written books and they talk about that exact thing. When you're in the military for 10, 15, 20 years, and that's all you know, but they talk about the struggle of finding their purpose outside of that. But that's the word they use is purpose. Like you gotta find something that you can grab onto and something that you're excited to wake up to do each day. And so you've got to continually seek that out. And the other point you hit on, I was thinking too, I was like, a lot of uh like normal people that watch the NFL and stuff, they it's hard to correlate and they do have those thoughts, like why this person made millions, you know, this person got to do what they love, and then they're famous. But at the end of the day, you're right, like they're people that go through those same feelings of, you know, it's like being cut unexpectedly, it's like getting fired from a job that you love and didn't expect or see that coming, and you got a family you got to take care of, and you, you know, and and sometimes players got a lot of different people they're taking care of. So responsibility feels heavy as you learn a lot about some of their stories. So I think it's really cool that you you spotlight those specific examples. Maurice, writing this book, have you seen it make an impact on you as far as like so you're a high school coach? You've been coaching at uh is it Providence High School? Yep, yes. And you've been there for like, I was looking at like 12 years, position coach, head coach now. Have you seen it help you as a coach be able to, I don't know, share a certain message with young guys in a way?

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Absolutely. So the book really helped me to um allow me to expand my influence beyond what I can, even here in Jacksonville. Uniquely enough, this I'm a believer. And so there, I know there's three areas that I'm supposed to impact. And I always felt like it was supposed to be high school, college, and the pros. And as uniquely, God has opened up doors and opportunities in all three phases. And there's oftentimes I'll speak at colleges, there's oftentimes where I will, of course, continue to work with the chaplain, see with the Jaguars, and then also I'm a high school football coach and senior Bible teacher. So I have these three spheres of influence that uh that I'm working with. And so the book has really just amplified my voice and my mission. And so again, writing the book was the challenge, but actually now I'm able to see, like, oh God, I see what you're doing. And so he's uh he's allowing opportunities for people that to hear a fresh perspective, to hear from somebody who's called in this industry to make an impact. Look, just for me, I've I've ministered at the Pro Bowl, I've ministered in the Senior Bowl, I've ministered in front of thousands. And so I know how like God uses me, but to have these opportunities now, it's uh it's a one-on-one conversation. You're reading the book and you're you're receiving the voice of a former player, a chaplain, and a high school football coach, in which I use stories from all three uh three lanes that I kind of operate in. And so that's what I've kind of learned and how it can make an impact. And for me, when I look at my players, I always, so I have this unique ability to see the end. Because the first part when I kind of started ministry, it was working from the the pros. Right? The pros, I can make an impact. And yes, and God is doing great things, but now I kind of rewind and now I'm at the high school level where they don't have some of the issues that grown men have, and now they got all the money, fame, and wealth, and they think they know it all. Now I can get to them when they are young and think they know it all. And let me see, like, ah, you don't know a lot just yet. So it just gives me it gives me an opportunity to really um understand the purpose by why I even coach. And um, I really feel like I'm in a place now where I'm I'm living a purposeful living and just um I'm living to um just do everything I can to make an impact with my time here.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah. Man, that's awesome. Have you seen kind of changing lanes a little bit, just kind of more like football focused? You know, you've been coaching through some time frames where things have changed. You know, college, NIL, you know, even the NFL has changed some stuff up. High school kids are doing different things, they're training year-round. I don't know if, you know, when you were a kid, if you played basketball, track, if you did multiple sports, but it seems like kids are getting more pushed to just focus earlier on on one thing as they, you know, try to accomplish the goal of getting, you know, to the college program they won or you know, to the NFL. But what have you, I guess just what's your personal opinion on the state of the sport in general? And and as far as like high school kids go, are they dealing, and I'm thinking social media too, even. You know, we didn't have to deal with that growing up. But what are some of the challenges that you've started to see that you didn't have to experience, but you're having to work through with those young men to kind of help them stay, you know, I guess on a path that they need to stay on and not veer? What are some of those challenges you've had to figure out and help coach these kids on?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Yeah. I would say today the business of sport is become it's becoming more refined. I think there's opportunities to do things year-round. Man, I really encourage the multi-sport athlete, especially when you're young, because you just don't know. Those who have desires to um play beyond their high school or to impact their high school or in different ways, I highly encourage you to play multi-sports. I think Nick's segment has come out, and multiple coaches are saying like the multi-sport athlete are the ones they want to look at. They're more, they're more developed. They have uh each sport kind of fees into the development of the athlete. Man, I remember my high school, it was a basketball school, and uh my basketball coach came to me one day and he was just like, hey Mo, I think you would be a really good basketball player, but you gotta let football go. And I was looking at and I was just like, I don't know, I had like a year of football in, and I was like, my football is way better than my basketball. If I gotta make a choice today, I'm gonna focus on football. And I had this, it almost forced me to make a choice there. But there are still athletes today are still having to deal with things where a basketball coach would say, hey, give up your give up your football, give up your track, and just focus only on basketball. But also to have seen as a coach over the years, if if a guy will come out to come to us a little sooner, maybe that's sophomore junior year, and give us a shot, you'll give us two years to develop you and give you an opportunity to be recruited by for college at a position that you probably would be considered as a division one athlete. And so I highly encourage that athletes today that they really understand until you've really gotten to that place, like I'm already a four and five star, those guys kind of it's narrowed down. But those guys where they're still trying to figure out and they're in that discovery phase, man, do multi-sports until it's really gotten to that place. I know what I am. And so the challenge is AAU, and all the different stuff that is now entered into the sports realm. And so it's it's starting to become a money focus instead of just the pure love of the game or something while we do some of these things. And so parents are challenged to make a good choice for their kids as well. All right, I know your coach said that, but let's balance this out. Let's see the big picture. All right, you're six foot seven, don't have um point guard skills, but you are 250 pounds. Hey, maybe you should go play tight end or left tackle somewhere. You might make some money right there. So it's those are the type of things that we're helping parents to kind of navigate and really think about how do they handle this. So good question, by the way, because that's I know it's I know I'm not the only coach in America that that's that hasn't that's helping their athletes work through that. And it's um, I mean, it was happening 20 plus years ago when I was in in high school, so it's still happening today, but at a higher level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Yeah, it's just something you see coaches talk about, you know, Kirby Smarts of the world in college and in high school. You just see you can see the athletes that, and maybe it's because their parents are guiding them the right way in the coaches, but you can see them handle things a certain way where, you know, it's passion, everything else will play out by itself. And then you see guys, sometimes the it seems like the money is the only thing on the mind, and it kind of affects the way they play sometimes or the decisions they make. And I'm sure it is just extremely difficult in today's landscape to try and keep that focus on and say, hey, if you just do what you what you do, everything else will play out. You know, don't worry so much about the business stuff, but it just penetrates into the lives of these young men so hard now. It's it's just hard. I can't imagine like what they deal with uh around a lot of that. And I and you see it firsthand. So I was just curious, just yeah, your opinion on that and what you see. Maurice, what's your favorite part about being uh a high school coach? What's what's the what's the thing that every day you're like, man, this is this is why I do what I do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

This uh being able to pour into kids who where you don't know what they will be and you you see something great happening. Like um, for instance, this spring for us, like this we finally hit our young wave, and so we got a bunch of young players out there. Then I actually had to take out the pad and actually simulate being an offensive tackle and throwing kids around this spring because I didn't have I didn't have anybody to give us a look. And so doing things like that, so going to I and I know we like a normal practice, you can do an offense and a defense, and but we had about maybe 25. And so I was like, okay, what do you do with that? And so we had to be you um unique and come up with some new things of how we practice. And because we have other kids was finishing a state championship for um for weightlifting and track, and and so in spring, we know it's a challenge to even get all our players there. But we played last night, we played a Jamboree game versus two teams, and man, the boys, they they did great. Man, they were scoring touchdowns, they was throwing, we ran the ball. It was two games, like, man, if that was a four-quarter game for both teams, we we we would have came out with a win. And so seeing like just the short development and two and a half weeks, it's like, man, that is awesome. And this uh, like seeing a kid that uh is probably you thought would have no shot, all of a sudden the light just click, I was like, that's when you know the coaching is being effective. And not only just from a football perspective, too, uh, over the years, being able to work guys through character issues, being able to sit down, hey, let's sit down, let's talk about what I see, and uh, and I give an honor, honest perspective, and even challenge them and see these kids rise to the challenge and just and have the maturity throughout that season. I've had um at this point, we've had a couple players where we've challenged or decided to stay with us who are now in ministry. And so it's again, it's I think there's a lot of rewards from just like kind of just doing what you're supposed to do, pouring into the kids and just allowing and just seeing the fruit of it. My first year, I had a tennis player, a right tackle. Uh name was um Marshall. And uh he was like, Coach, I just want to play. He was probably 180 pounds wet. And I was just like, all right, man, that's a you you what we got? I was like, you know, he battled his tail off, though. The tennis, it really helped him to kind of be able to know how to move laterally. And he he fought his tail out. Every now and again he'll find a player that he was overmatched with, but he would not quit. And uh that just reminds me um what good coaching will bring out of players.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, man, I love that. I love stories like that. And uh I'm sure it is so rewarding to just, like you said, see the light bulb go off on somebody, whether that be just from an athletic standpoint or a personal development standpoint, and uh know you had a part in helping them get there. I can only imagine just how rewarding that feels. Maurice, just a couple more questions for you. I would love to know. I mean, you spent you spent several seasons in the NFL. A lot of guys don't don't last as long as you do. Do you have, I guess I'm gonna ask, like, what's what's your best memory of playing for the Jaguars? Is there a moment where that you think about sometimes and go, man, I love that? Or, you know, is that like the one when someone asked, you know, how was your playing days? Is there one moment you think about more than others?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

It's um it's a bunch of moments. I think um I know it's uniquely left enough. I think my last year, I just was just just embracing. I like I didn't know that the end is about to come, but I just embraced being in that environment and just seeing these stadiums filled, man, just seeing the hatred that they'll have for the Jaguars and go out and play Pittsburgh and just um just taking all that in, the the waving tiles or the playoff games versus the Patriots. And it's just I think all the memories of being being drafted and frustrated at it wasn't a top-time pick because everybody wants to be a top 10 pick. Playing in Jacksonville, one of the things that really developed me, I got around some good brothers. And I got around some good teammates that were faithful Christians and uniquely just trying to grow in a tough environment. So spiritually, I grew up in the National Football League spiritually. And so getting around guys like Mar Burnell and Tony Baselli and uh Cal Brady and all these different guys, just spending time with these men in Bible studies, and Anthony Johnson being our um our team chaplain at the time, who played for Notre Dame in Coates and in the Jets. And so having guys who understand the walk and being willing to just talk about life and just beyond what the some of the struggles we go through as players on the field, those are rich moments. And so when I look back over my career, man, I'm a I'm excited when we go out and have a big playoff win versus Pittsburgh. Man, that's that was probably some of my funnest memories. Yeah. Playing against them and uh Casey Hampton complaining, thinking I'm holding them because I pancaked them. And so there is, there's this a lot. I think when you look back over, when I look back over my career that I'm thankful for, not only just in the National Football League, but even my time at Michigan, first year of college, we won a national championship. And play with guys like Tom Brady and um Brian Greasy, Charles Woodson, all these um these great names, and playing with guys who you would have never known that was gonna be a Hall of Famer one day. And so I look back on all those memories and I cherish it. And um and I saw I have a special place for it. But I also understand like with guys like me, you walk through an adrenaline junkies dream. Yeah. And so to kind of detox and try to understand, like, how do I get back to a normal life? This is one of the reasons why I wrote the book. I think it'll really help people to kind of just understand, like, okay, there is life after the game, and it's okay. It's okay if it's not banging heads, and it's okay if it's not being out on the war field shooting at people, whatever, whatever you did at a high level, just knowing that the next chapter, like, God has something special. So that's that's guess how I'll answer that one.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah. No, I love that, man. And I said I got two more questions. I got two more questions now because I thought I'm gonna ask you. But uh, I remember that win verse versus Pittsburgh. I was that weird kid, man, that went in elementary school. I had my parents record Monday night football because I had a bedtime, so I'd watch it after school on Tuesday. So I remember a lot of just games and moments, and when I knew I was talking with you, I was thinking back to like the Jaguar memories I had and just the players I remember watching. And I remember where I was watching that game at a friend's house. Um, and that was fun to fun to watch. Maurice, if you were talking to a group of, we just had the draft, you know. So if you were to to be invited to talk to a group of rookies, what would be one of the messages that you'd want to make sure you're able to relay to them as they get their journey started? Absolutely. Good question.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Want to be go buy the book. No, I wanted to say that. No, I think.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, let me give you this book first.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

One of the things that really just recognize this the um that you're the one percentage. You walked into an opportunity that most men have are fighting their their their whole young sports career to get to. And um don't blame, um, don't lose it by poor decision making. Steward the opportunity well. Because if you steward this well, it's gonna set you up for many doors and opportunities later in life. You're at a place now where this is um not only will financially do some great things for you, but vocationally, relationally, but you're able to write a story that not many men are have the opportunity to do so. And so I'll really, and I do this every year, I talk about the importance of stewardship. All right, steward the opportunity. Well, that means working hard, studying your playbook, actually giving on, taking care of your body, getting around the right people, all those things will help go to help add to hopefully a long career. We know NFL stands for not for long. All right, but so if it is not for long, you need you better plan like tomorrow may be your last day. So make sure you steward it well. Make sure you don't not understand the opportunity that's presented to you. And then this is when I will return them back to the book. And because if you read the book, you got uh you have um some life lessons from a guy who has played it for almost 10 years and has walked with people after the game as a chaplain as well. And so you get a fresh respect of on mental health, finances, the importance of relationships, and the importance of um and the perspective that you need to keep as you're walking through this career. And so that's kind of how I'll lead them through with a shameless book club because it is wisdom because I'm I'm sharing like even what what it looks like at the end when you think your career is still going, but all of a sudden you're teetering, and then you got the turd coming to get you for cut day. And so that's that's what I would share.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah. No, and that perfectly leads into my last my last question for you. And this is kind of just more for a books for guys perspective as well. But when you were playing and transitioning out, who were a two-part question. Was there was there a book or two that meant a lot to you during your time as an athlete or post-athletics? And who were some of your mentors that you remember having an impact on you and you being able to look to them for guidance and certain, you know, just when you needed?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Books.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Of course, as I discovered the words, uh the number one easy one I would say is the Bible. Um, and then uh number two, this is because it's coming to mind for some reason, is every man's battle. Uh, it was a book of this about this, the battles that men go through. And um, that was one book that I read just to kind of give me a first perspective on this living life as a Christian man. And then the mentors that I connected with the most would be my chaplains. Um Bruce Edition over at Michigan was a huge uh supporter and friend. And then uh Anthony Johnson here in Jacksonville were guys I pulled on all the time. And then um also getting connected to the local churches here in Jacksonville, the pastors and and being able to be a part of the different ministries here in Jacksonville that have been a huge uh win for me as well. And um, I think finding some some good relationships outside of um just just the Jaguars in that community has been uh been fruitful too. And so, yeah, I think that'll be how I answer that, but I think it's important that for what you're doing is that you're encouraging uh young men and of all generations to read. If men need to read, the moment we lose this, uh this is a challenge, man. So we we have to make sure that we're uh keeping our minds sharp and and uh hearing from different perspectives because sometimes as men, we think, no, it's my way, this is the only way. There's um there's other voices, all right. There's other wisdom that we can gain from a lot of people, and we have to be willing to open ourselves up to listen to others as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, love that, man. Just continuous trying to get better. I don't know if you got to spend much time around Tony Dungey or not, but his book, Quiet Strength, was the first book I read really in college that like led me to reading more. Was uh he was a guy that I've never met, but he's one of those guys I've followed just because of his approach too and just his his faith, the way he led. That was a good book that I if anyone needs a good book recommendation, that's one I always recommend that that may get you going too. But no, Maurice, man, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. And we got your book on the Books for Guys website spotlighted. We got some posts. We'll make sure there's links for people that can uh go buy your book and keep up with all that you're doing. But man, keep doing the good work, keep sharing your story. Man, I hope you guys have an awesome season coming up, and I hope you continue to have incredible impact on athletes at all levels and people at all levels. And uh man, just can't wait to see what all you continue to do in your life.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Thanks, Chris. Man, I'm looking forward to seeing what Gogatine do with this with your platform as well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Absolutely. Thanks, Maurice.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Thanks, Chris.