Make the Adjustment: Chris Mader on Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, Change, and Executive Coaching

What if the biggest obstacle to your success isn't your circumstances—but your willingness to make the adjustment?

In this episode of Books4Guys, Chris sits down with executive coach, leadership consultant, former professional baseball player, and author Chris Mader to discuss leadership, emotional intelligence, change, executive coaching, and the lessons behind his book Make the Adjustment. Drawing on experiences from professional baseball, a 30-year career in staffing and executive leadership, and now coaching business owners and executives, Chris explains why personal growth begins with taking ownership of your own actions rather than blaming external circumstances. 

Throughout the conversation, Chris shares the story behind the phrase "Make the Adjustment," a lesson passed down by his college baseball coach that ultimately became both the title of his book and the foundation of his coaching philosophy. Chris and Chris also explore why even the most successful leaders need coaches, how emotional intelligence often separates good leaders from great ones, and why many entrepreneurs unknowingly become the biggest bottleneck preventing their own companies from growing. They discuss delegation, humility, accountability, psychological safety, and creating environments where people are empowered to contribute their best ideas. 

The discussion also covers lifelong learning, fear of change, executive leadership, personal responsibility, entrepreneurship, staffing, artificial intelligence, and why the willingness to adapt is becoming one of the most valuable skills in today's rapidly changing world. Whether you're leading a company, managing a team, building a business, or simply trying to become a better version of yourself, this episode offers practical insights that will challenge you to embrace change and continue growing throughout your career and life. 

Key Discussion Topics

•  The story behind Make the Adjustment
•  Why emotional intelligence is the foundation of great leadership 
•  Lessons from professional baseball and executive coaching 
•  How leaders unintentionally become the bottleneck in their organizations 
•  Delegation, humility, and creating psychologically safe teams 
•  The importance of executive coaching and outside perspective 
•  Overcoming fear and embracing change 
•  Entrepreneurship, staffing, and scaling businesses 
•  AI, lifelong learning, and adapting in a changing workplace 
•  Book recommendations including Good to Great, The Energy Bus, Start With Why, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and What Got You Here Won't Get You There

Executive Development Partner: https://www.standardpursuit.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Before we jump into today's episode, I want to thank our executive development partner, Standard Pursuit. Founded by Hunter Didrickson, Standard Pursuit is a coaching community built for founders, entrepreneurs, and high performers who are ready to step into the next version of themselves. Through one-on-one coaching and the Standard Training Club, Hunter helps people strengthen both their physical and mental operating systems so they can think more clearly, lead more effectively, and perform at a higher level. One of the things I appreciate most about what Hunter is building is that he understands success isn't just about business. It's about health, mindset, discipline, leadership, and becoming the type of person capable of achieving the goals you set for yourself. If you're looking to sharpen your performance, improve your habits, and operate at a higher level both personally and professionally, I encourage you to check out standardpursuit at standardpursuit.com. Now let's get to today's episode. I've been in the area.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I just haven't been to Boston. Great city. I've been traveling my whole life, and I've been to Europe and Southeast Asia and Canada and all across Latin America. Boston is one of the top three cities in the world. I'm telling you, it's a great city.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Hey, my wife says the same. She's been there for work several times. She's worth listening. You got to come with me one of these trips. All right, I'll do it. Tag along. Yeah. But no, Chris, man, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast and the spotlight and talk about your book. And man, I've already learned things about you before I push records I didn't even know. Um, I mean, you're sitting here, I I saw where you played uh baseball in college, played in the majors, and you're sitting here telling me you were on the same field as Jeter, Jordan, and uh Bo Jackson. And I'm like, dude, what what an experience to kind of kick off, you know, just just early in your career, you're like, dude, nothing can match this. I'm on the field with some of the greatest athletes, but uh, but no, your your career did progress and you've done some incredible things. Um, you've led companies and consulted with with many different people. We you we were talking about staffing. You spent many, many years there. I'm still in staffing and uh love to always talk about that. But no, Chris, man, for those, for those of our audience who hasn't been introduced to you or kind of know your story, man, what is your story? What talk a little bit about just your career progression and then just really what motivated you to write your book, which I want to say the title, Make the Adjustment. And I'm sure people kind of pick up on where you're gonna go with that. But man, just share a little bit about yourself and then how you got to where you're at now.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Absolutely. Yeah, I grew up in the Boston area, and like a lot of awkward teenagers was trying to find myself in my youth. And I found that the sport of baseball was just something I was good at, and it brought me self-esteem and confidence. And so I just started to chase that thing. And I I loved hockey and golf and football and all the sports growing up and played them all when I was growing up, but it was clear that baseball was my high highest skill sport. And you know, my parents were kind of steering me to say, hey, Chris, you probably get a scholarship. So I ended up winning Massachusetts State Player of the Year in 1988 and was being pursued by Clemson and Arizona and Miami and all these big schools. And this is back when like Oklahoma State was winning, you know, World Series on ESPN and all this stuff in the 80s. It was so much fun. So I'm like, I'm gonna go to Division I school. Well, the thing about Division I schools is as a freshman, you don't play. And every school I'm visiting, they're like, Chris, you'll start as a sophomore, you'll start as a junior. I'm like, well, I want to start as a freshman. And so I went to this Division II school in Winter Park, Florida, called Rollins College. I never heard of it. So it didn't really have like the sex appeal of like, what's this school? I'm like, Rollins, what's Rollins? And so I go down there. It's a beautiful campus. If you've ever been there, it's one of the top 10 beautiful, most camp most beautiful campuses in the world, like U.S. News and World Report, Spanish architecture, pools, lake, just gorgeous. And so baseball field is pristine. And I go to meet the coach, Boyd Coffee. And I got to work out with the team that day. And like I did in a lot of college visits, I had paid visits, and Boyd pulled me into his office. And I'm sitting there and he's a he's a good old boy from the south, very understated, doesn't say a lot. And I'm I'm really extroverted talkative, and I'm trying to get him to talk. He's not saying much. And I look over his head and on his desk, there's this giant wooden sign. It says, Son, make the adjustment. And I go, hey coach, what's the what's the make the adjustment thing all about? And he goes, Chris, or you come to school here, you find out. And I'm like, okay. And that's it. That's all I got. And so I walk out and I start meeting the team, and I love the team, and I'm like, this guy's just like an enigma. I can't figure him out, but I liked him. And so I ended up going to Rollins because they said I'd start as a freshman, and I did. And and and as it progressed, Chris, it gets to my book and my business and everything. This is I'm 18, 19 years old. What I learned about coach was that anything on the field that wasn't going well, Chris, you got to make the adjustment. Anything not going well with the teammate, Chris, you got to make the adjustment how you talk to the seniors. Like, okay. Uh, you know, studies aren't going well, Chris. You've got to stop going to the parties, you've got to make the adjustment, right? So the my whole four years of Rollins is I need to make the adjustment. And later in life, you know, I get into sales and stuff. I played, I ended up playing four years in college, D2 World Series. I ended up playing professionally for four years. We can talk about that in a minute. I get into staffing at the age of 26 and sales. 29, I'm a I'm a branch manager running a business. And now I'm a regional and national account director, and I'm VP and I'm growing with Ronstadt and Sapphire and all these cool things. And so I have a 30-year career in staffing. But when I when I started my own business three years ago to be an executive coach, it was very clear to me that what my coach taught me was what I taught everybody the last 30 years as a leader in staffing. But I didn't really, you know, the tagline and it just started to come together. I have to name my company. I need a tagline. MTA consultancy, tagline make the adjustment. And so I call Trey, which is Boyd's son. Boyd had passed away a few years ago. I said, Trey, I'm thinking about naming my company MTA Consultancy, tagline make the adjustment after Boyd. You know, he taught me so much about emotional intelligence and that I need to take ownership of outcomes and good things that happen are because of what I do, and bad things that happen are because of what I do or don't do. And Trey just goes, Chris, I think dad would be honored if you did that. And so off I go to start my company, off I go to start to write a book. And when I was writing the book, I thought it was going to be like a John Gordon Simon Seneck leadership book. Like that's what I thought it was going to be. It ended up being a memoir of change because after a 30-year career in staffing, you start your own company as an entrepreneur, a 52-year-old entrepreneur. I had to make the adjustment. And as I was writing the book, I also hired a coach named Dan Martell who wrote a book called Buy Back Your Time. Shout out, Dan. And I was talking to Dan about my book one day. And he said, Chris, you think you're writing the book for your clients? He goes, but you wrote it for yourself. And I was like, What do you mean? He goes, He goes, When was the last time you read your own book? I go, I don't know, two years. He goes, go back and read it. And as I'm reading it, I'm like, wow, this is wild. Like, I wrote this book to myself. Like it's a book for anybody that's trying to make a change in their life, anybody's trying to make a change in their business. And you have to have the courage to change and you have to understand change. And I lean heavily into in my coaching, emotional intelligence and change. Just understanding those two things. Once you understand that about yourself, you can learn how to delegate better. You can learn how to run a better meeting. You can learn how to sell better. You can learn everything. But the foundational element is are you ready to change? Do you understand your propensity to want to change? And are you ready to, you know, as we say, make the adjustment once you get the coaching and advice to do so?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah. Man, there's a couple things I'm I'm picking up on when you're talking about that. The first thing is, man, just how cool is it when you and it's not just sports. I mean, you coach executives now and the impact that somebody can have on you, like your baseball coach, where it's literally led to where you're at today. It's your, it's your motto, it's what you live by, it's what you coach on, make the adjustment. I'm sitting here thinking of coaches that, again, not just sports, but those who have had an impact on me and just certain things they said to me that have I that still resonate with me 10, 20 years later, where I just, you know, just don't know it in the time, but like the impact it will continue to have on you year after year. And uh I just I'm sure his son was very honored to have you call him and say, like, hey man, here's what I'm gonna do. And just for him to say, man, I think my dad would really love and appreciate that and be proud of you for where you're at and what you're doing. So that was the first thing. The other thing is very I I was sitting here thinking about this too. I didn't even think about it until you started talking, Chris. But I was thinking about one of my leaders, and he literally told me the words make the adjustment. I had transitioned from being a recruiter into sales and uh moved to a bigger city, Atlanta, and I was like, man, why why is this so much harder? You know, the sales side and the competition. And I remember my leader taking me to lunch one day, and he was just asking me all kinds of questions. Just, Chris, what's your what's your mom do? What's your dad do? What's your sister do? Man, who's your girlfriend? Who's your best friends? And we got back to our office, and he was like, Chris, what do you know about me? And I was like, Well, I don't know, you're the EVP of this or that. And he's like, Yeah, but what else do you know about me? And I'm like, Well, I don't know. And he's like, Well, man, I'm gonna tell you what I know about you. And he just spit all that information back. And he's like, Man, this is one of those adjustments you gotta learn to make. It's not about you, it's about the other person. Ask them questions, be curious, get to know them. And he's like, you can do it. He's like, this is just the moment I was waiting on to have with you. And I was like, ah, that was another moment where he and he literally said, make the adjustment, and this is gonna go a lot smoother for you. So as you were talking, I was just things were going in my head where I was like, man, this is awesome. This is bringing up just memories and thoughts I have, but I don't think about often. So it's really cool that you you kind of spark those back in me.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, that's why everybody needs a coach. I it I talk about Dan Martel. I mean, I'm 55 years old now. I think Dan is a few years younger than me, but I want to get smart on AI. He owns 20 AI companies. So everybody needs a coach. Even coaches need coaches because of what you just said, the impact, they can they can share insights with you as a mentor and give you advice or steer you or get you to think differently about something. And that's why I know that the value is immense. It's hard to measure it. Like there, there's not a linear, hey, I get, you know, I spend, you know, 300 bucks with Chris and I get a thousand dollar return. It is not that linear at all. It it's a conversation that could inspire you for, you know, 30 years later into building a business that I'm now building around this model, this mantra that I I know is true and I know is important to people, because to your point, you know, Chris, in my book, I talk about this at Boyd's funeral eight years ago when Trey gave the eulogy. You know, grown 300 men go to, you know, coaches' funeral because we all wanted to pay our respects. He coached for 25 years around. And everybody's crying, you know, grown men, 40, 45, we're all crying. And Trey looks up, he goes, Hey guys, if Boyd was here right now, what would he say? And Chris, I am not kidding you. 30, 300 people in unison. Son, make the adjustment. And I was like, wow. I'm like, how powerful was it that he impacted me? Like I just thought that was my message. And I knew that other guys knew it, but I was like, wow, everybody gets it. I was like, and then as I start my business, I'm like, hold on a second. Like, this is something that I can carry to other people. And, you know, so I I take it as, you know, look at I'm not Boyd Coffee. I'd I'd love to be, you know, have a fraction of the impact Boyd had on people, on the clients I have, but I know that that that phrase, because what it does, Chris, it makes you look in the mirror. It makes people stare at themselves as like, okay, I'm the problem, but I can also be the solution. And I have to make, I have to make the decision to change. And I can't force people to change. And so when I do intake calls as a salesperson, you tell I love what you just said about listening. I have a 30-minute rule in sales. If it's a fifty if to if it's a 30-minute call, a 15-minute rule rather, 30-minute call, first 15 minutes is you can't sell. You just have to ask questions. You can't sell anything. And so same thing goes for you know, when I have an intake call with a customer at the end, I'll say, hey, look at Chris, I think I can help you based on what you told me. But on a scale one to 10, what is your readiness to make the adjustment? If I give you advice, it sounds directionally correct, like, will you take it? Scale one to 10. I've had clients be like eight, nine, ten, great, we'll start. I've had clients be like, yeah, you know, Chris, like a six. I'm like, all right, we're probably not ready to work together then. And they're like, what do you mean? Like, I know you can help me. I'm like, no, I can't help you because if you're not really open to change and making the adjustment, like I can take your money, but it's not gonna do anything.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I uh you're kind of leading me into a good point here, too, because um, yeah, it's back to the coaching, you know, that there's something about that third-party person coming in and and seeing something that you're missing, just because you're your head's down, you're doing things and and and there's not there's something you're just not thinking about. And I was reading about your book and and just talking about like leaders specifically, CEOs, leaders of groups, and they can on the outside look so successful, everything's going well, but those people are kind of they have that struggle too where they're trying to figure out what's the next move, how do I keep this going? And I like how you were talking about, you know, again, I was reading about your book and how these people can feel stuck and they don't really know the direction, but they they need that outside person to come in and and just analyze the whole picture for them and and unlock something they're missing. Talk a little bit about that specifically, because it's easy, I think, for people who have leaders to get that coaching, but for those leaders who don't have as many people to lean on, uh, maybe outside of their network of people who are also leading other places, but you're busy, so you don't always get to bounce those ideas around. Talk a little bit specifically about like working with leaders and how you help them specifically fine-tune what they're doing and kind of see those blind spots maybe they're missing.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Well, the two things, there's two things here. One is proximity. When you're in it yourself, you can't always see it as clearly. You know, I would say like a surgeon can't do surgery on themselves. Like you need somebody else to see it because you you know, I can't do surgery on the back of my shoulder. I can't see it, right? So that's the first thing. Second thing is you can't vent to anybody else. Like so if you're a business owner, vent, you can't vent down. You can't, if you have a board, you can't vent to your board. You certainly don't want to go home and bring it home and vent to your spouse or, you know, you so you have nobody, there's no release valve to bounce ideas off of and all these deep thoughts and like what do I do? And I and I, or, or the vulnerability that leaders have, like I feel stuck, I don't know what to do. They, it's very hard for them to say that to their team. I would suggest not. Because, you know, listen, I like vulnerability in leaders, but you also don't want to overshare because you don't want your people to be like, oh my God, this guy doesn't know what he's doing, right? We don't want that either. So so the the fact that you can't vent down, you can't vent at home, the proximity thing, and you also don't know what you don't know. So when you whenever you hire a coach, the number one question typically is, hey coach, I currently do a business doing 18 million. I want to grow it to 100 million. What size business have you ever coached? Now, if I say a number less than 100, I'm probably not the right coach for you, right? I'm just not. And so if you can't drop a number of, like, yeah, I built a company from 30 million to 1.4 billion, the clients go 1.4 billion. I'm like, yeah, I was there 20 years and this and that. Like, okay. And they're like, what about a startup? I'm like, wait, I've done a startup from zero to three. Like, okay, you've done that. So there isn't a number that a client can give me that I haven't sat in a seat and seen it. Now, I also have the X factor, Chris, where like I was an operator for 30 years, but I was also in leadership training and development. So I have this like heavy instructional design, emotional intelligence side of me that most coaches that most people don't have. Coaches either have the heavy educational theory side, but not operator side, or lots of them are operators, but don't understand the theory. I'm very fortunate where I have both. So if you want to have a deep conversation about emotional intelligence, we can do that. If you want to have a deep conversation about how to delegate more effectively, we can talk about that. You know, so there isn't, there isn't much I haven't seen. And by the way, it doesn't mean I know everything. I'm I'm a lifelong learner too. I'm always learning. But if you're gonna go hire a coach, you got to ask them what's the deepest hole they got stuck in and how did they get out and how high did they climb, right? Because if that's where you want to aspire to, you know, if I want to listen, basketball, we talk about Michael Jordan. If I want to learn how to play basketball, I'd want to hire Michael Jordan, right? He's pretty good. I wouldn't want to hire a kid that played high school basketball and never made it to college if I want to play college basketball, right? So that's kind of how I look at this.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah. No, that's amazing. Chris, for you personally, and again, I'm just thinking, you know, baseball, successful staffing, now you're coaching, with the book in particular. What's something you're most proud of as far as because you mentioned something earlier too, I think is really good to point out. A lot of people expect results to happen fast, or they get to a certain age and they think, hey, I'm it's I'm past my prime. And I liked how you mentioned, hey, I'm 52, an entrepreneur. Now I'm new to this, you know, and you take a step out and doing something different. And I was, I had a conversation with uh uh Chris, I can't pronounce his last name, but he's a he wrote a book out of Florida also in staffing, but it talks about that, how to overcome some of those thoughts and things that are out there and how to push those away. But but for you personally, what's been something you're most proud of yourself through this journey of staffing leadership and now coaching?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

I think it's the, you know, I'm from the Boston area. So, you know, shout out Bill Belichick back on the Patriots for dominating. Um, and they're still a good team. But, you know, the coaching tree, I think there's this, like Coach Coffee for me, there's an impact you have on people. And I've just always enjoyed helping people. I've just been one of those guys that enjoys the, I enjoy coaching because I love seeing a player, a salesperson, a leader develop and they and they unlock something that they didn't know prior to interacting with me. And so I'll give you a real example where you write you write a book, and listen, there's all these stats. 99% of people that start a book don't finish a book, all these things. So just getting it published was an amazing accomplishment. And by the way, I had a 710 math SAT and like a 410 verbal. I struggled with verbal compared, reading comprehension, verbal write, all this stuff. So to think that I wrote a book, now obviously I had a great publisher and manuscripts and they helped me write it. Um, but I I didn't think I would even be capable of writing a book. But the the coolest story is when you write a book, people interview you and they'll say, you know, what do you want the book to do? And I'll make look it. I'd love to sell a million copies, but listen, if one person reads it and there's an impact, that's great. Okay, well, it happened about a year or so ago. A CEO from St. Louis bought a few copies for his leadership team, passed them out, and you know, he gave me the, hey, Chris, people love the book, it's great, blah, blah, blah. Okay. A year goes by. Random LinkedIn post, I get tagged. So I'm looking at this post. This guy that works in St. Louis got a copy of the book because his manager made him read the book and he hated the book. He hated it. My book, he hated it. And the LinkedIn post goes on to say that a year later he wasn't really progressing, and his manager's like, go back and read the book. And the guy's like, I don't want to read the book, but it was a director from his boss, he goes back and reads the book. Well, he read it with a different perspective this time. It is probably one of the best testimonials I've ever read about my book, about the impact it had on somebody, how it how it changed their career in a positive way, how it changed their personal life in a in a positive way. Like all the things my book I was hoping to do, it actually did for this person. And it did so where he first read it.

unknown 20:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

And if you go back, if you go back on my LinkedIn page and look, he's just, he didn't want to look in the mirror. He didn't want to be honest with himself. And that's what I say to people, like, look at you can you can tell me all these things. Just don't you can lie to me. Don't lie to yourself. And you have you're the one who has to look in the mirror. And you're you're the one who knows if you're stuck, you're the problem. And no, and people don't want to hear that because the easiest thing is you blame external factors. Well, it's not me, it's my boss. It's not me, it's the market. It's not me, it's that. It's like in my book, I have a chapter on called Internal Locus of Control. You control your attitude, your actions, what you do, what you don't do, what you say, your job, your situation, you control all of it. You just choose. And people sometimes are afraid, and I talk about this in the book, fear, when it comes to change, chapter two. This is why people don't change. It's uncomfortable. They're afraid. What if I fail? All the what ifs in my book has this algorithm I walk people through to be less afraid, to take calculated risks, to get out of their own way, and you know, have the courage to change.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah. I love that. And Chris, I I think something else that's cool. It's you're you're just you're putting out there. I I can see your passion for helping people and seeing them succeed seems to be the biggest reward for you as you coach people or hear back on your book. And I was having this conversation with someone the other day. It just seems like in our world right now, a lot of people are just kind of looking out for themselves, trying to elevate themselves, not not send the elevator back down or help people because they're trying to, you know, maybe competing for something. But there's such a a reward in helping others, seeing people succeed. Uh, like you said, that light bulb turns on in a sales rep, and they've been trying. And they finally get it. And it just the joy it can bring to you by helping somebody and getting them to the next, you know, the next uh step along their path. I just, I don't think you can talk about that enough because there's just again, it just seems like we're kind of more siloed than ever, and people are trying to do things on their own. But man, there's nothing better than helping someone else. And getting that help from from as yourself, like being so appreciative of someone like you, Chris, coming in and being like, hey man, let me get you to the next spot. I mean, it's just that reciprocation. I just I just hear that passion that you have for it, and I just that was something I was catching was just your your excitement to see people succeed. And I think that's really cool that that's a part of your journey and what your mission is about. So um, Chris, kind of thinking another question for you here, too. I and I was thinking of another book, actually. I I love how you're kind of talking a little bit about personal accountability in a way. And uh there's a book I read every year. It's called uh QBQ Question Behind the Question. I don't know if you've read it, but my staffing leader uh gave it to our team a few years ago, and that was one that really resonated. When you go into companies or work with individuals, what's what's some of the biggest, I guess, roadblocks or struggles you see people? I know you mentioned like looking at yourself in the mirror in that personal account. Is that is that the main issue you see? Or like what are some problems, even with AI? Like, what are some things you're seeing out there that maybe have changed over the years or or just seems to be the consistent issue that people have?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah. I'm and I I've gotten a lot a lot smarter on AI the past nine months. I'm happy to talk about that. But the number one issue I see I work with a lot of $10 to $30 million businesses that are looking to grow and scale to $50 or $100. And I have a client doing $500 million. Like I work with enterprise companies as well. But in that $10 to $30 million bucket, the business owner has been the driver of that business to that level. They've now hired the next level team or they've added new facilities or whatever that looks like. And you the most popular word in coaching right now is bottleneck. They're the bottleneck. And the they have the same fears of delegation, letting go, allowing other people to grow. And it's mainly a lot of times just ego. Sometimes it's just they've never grown a company beyond 10 million. So they just don't even know, again, that they're the problem. Like, well, I got it to 10 million. I'm like, I'm amazing. I'm like, you are amazing. But what got you to 10 doesn't get you to 30. What gets you to 30 is to get you 100. And so you have to get them through that mindset. And there's really two types of people, Chris. Honestly, there are leaders and CEOs and owners I work with that already get that and they want to hire smart people and they're not intimidated by me coming in as a smart guy who's built business. They're actually like, man, Chris, Chris is a great teammate for me. He's a sounding board. Like, this is awesome. Like, and it's really a collaboration because I'm impressed with the client. Cause I'm like, hey, I've never done what you've done. Like, I've never built a hair salon business or a addiction treatment business. Like, this is amazing for me. I get to learn from you. This is awesome, right? So those engagements go great. It's the ones where the CEO keeps resisting. They have to talk the most in the meeting. They have to run the meeting. They have to make the decisions. They have to do this. They have to have the it's like you got to let go. Like you, there are other people that want to talk. So tactically, Chris, what I've done to CEOs like that is I'll say, hey, your next leadership meeting, let me run it. And you get the first, Chris, you get the first two minutes to frame the meeting, what we want to accomplish, and then you can't talk for 30 minutes. And I go, I will run the meeting. Like as you're acting COO. Just let me run the meeting. And the clients let me do it when they let me do it. Sometimes they don't, but when they do, you already know what happens. People start to talk more. People start to solve issues more. And the CEO sitting there, like, oh my God. And after the meeting, they're like, Chris, that was amazing. I'm like, I know. And they say, Well, what happened? I'm like, you are you are holding these people back. Like they're afraid to speak. It's not psychologically safe. They're afraid to fail. They don't want to sound stupid. I opened things up and allowed them to collaborate, to kick the can around and just let them work together. And I said, Mr. Client, they're closer to the problem than you are. So let them solve it. Now, if it's a high risk thing, like, hey, let's change the vision for the company, that's not for your team to figure out. That's something you're involved with, right? But if you're talking about, hey, do we want to adjust our pricing? They're the ones talking to customers every day. Like then, let's let them talk about it and what the issues are. And so ego is just it's a very delicate balance of confidence and humility. Again, chapter 13 in my book. And it it's everything we've been talking about today, Chris. They have to be confident. I want them to be confident. I want them to have a presence. But humility is learning when not to speak. And you know this in sales and business development. The less we talk, the more we learn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah. I was just, as you were talking about that, I was like, I bet you you have to tread carefully and have some sensitivity when it comes to certain individuals you work with, just again, based on how they see things and the control they have. And I'm sitting here just thinking of clients of mine who I'm I'm like, yeah, that I talk to their employees and they're like, yeah, if you would just, it's time for him to go. We got this, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

If I've had if I've had 40 engagements over three years, Chris, I've probably had 40 different clients. You need clients, three or four, we've parted ways within three months of the engagement. And sometimes it's me and sometimes it's them. But I'm going to tell you, when I, when a client says yes to me and we start working together, this is exactly what I say. Hey, Chris, I'm so psyched for working together. I know I'm going to help you. It's going to be great. But I'm going to tell you right now, in two or three months, we're going to have a conversation. It's going to go something like this. Hey, Chris, there's an adjustment you need to make. And this is the moment you're either going to fire me or extend me for another year. And I said, So remember the conversation because we're going to have it. And three months go down the road, and I'm like, hey, Mr. Client, we're having the conversation today. Well, what's the conversation? I'm like, remember three months ago we were talking? They're like, yeah. And I say, you're either going to fire me or you're going to extend me. And honestly, I'm 90% of the time I get extended. 90% of the time, like, thank you for telling me that's so helpful. And then 10% of the time, they don't like it. And I'm like, look at it. If if you can't make this adjustment, I'm telling you, I know it's like I can see the future beyond what you're looking at. And I would never give you advice or something that I do not know is completely accurate and correct to do. So if you don't want to do it, it then it doesn't make sense. And by the way, maybe I am wrong. And it's your business. So it's not my decision to make. It's your business. You make the decision. And so sometimes, you know, 10% of the time, we part ways, we shake hands. That's cool. No problem. 30 day out. Um, and I I want to work with clients that that want to work with me, that get my philosophy, because I know what I'm going to share with them is going to work. It's going to 6X their business. So, you know, it's I do I do something called behavioral interviewing. What somebody's done in the past is likely we're going to do in the future. So when I give them this advice, I'm like, look, it, I've already seen this. I can tell you exactly how the movie's going to play out. I can tell you exactly how it's going to end based on the decision we make today. So whatever you want to choose to do is fine, but this is what I would suggest you do.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah. I love that. I I love the study of people. I love seeing situations. It's, it's uh like you said, you work with 40 different people, they're all different. Every company's different. You've got new challenges each place, and I'm sure that's just keeps you on your toes. And you're a curious person. So that keeps you learning and being able to grow. And then then you can use that to help others, um, which is what it's all about. Chris, I got one last question for you. I I love this conversation. Just because there we have so much in common, and and you're doing things that I I'm striving to do with my future self. So this is a really cool thing for me to be able to talk to you and and hear just some of the stuff you were saying. But this last question is is just strictly for a books for guys type question. Um, I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally, and what's a book that you love to recommend to others?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm tons of books. Um, you've probably heard some of these Good to Great by Jim Collins, one of the best books on businesses I've ever read. One that might be a little behind the scenes is What Got You Here Won't Get You There by Marshall Goldsmith. It's a book on emotional intelligence, and it's really well aligned to my business because what got you to 10 million doesn't get you to 30 million. So I think that line alone is worth it. Um, John Gordon, Energy Bus. I mean, I'm a positive leader, I love that stuff. And then Simon Seneck start with why. Like those are four books that are my go-to's on top of the Dan Martell book I mentioned before, Buy Back Your Time. If you're in business, you want to start a business, you want to run a business, you read those five books, you're probably that's a pretty good foundational start for you.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah. Right. Yeah. No, great recommendations. I've read a few of them. Um, it's interesting. Like when I talk with leaders, those same titles get thrown out there. And there's something to that. If you're trying to be successful, do what successful people are doing. Read what successful people are reading. It's it's not that hard. It's a blueprint. No, just follow that.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And oh, by the way, Chris, and you know this one too. You've heard this one Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People is the number one book on uh Audible. And it's still shocking to me that salespeople, leaders, whatever role in life, don't know it. And it blows my mind. So I'm like, you want to talk about a foundational element of success. That's probably the first book you should read. Just because you can be, you could be anybody. You could be, you could be working from home, you could be working in a freaking pet store. It doesn't matter. It's like that book will help anybody, you know?

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's interesting. And I again, I just find it fascinating. The titles that continue to get thrown out there. And I'm like, yep, if you haven't read it, need to read this one. But Chris, man, this has been awesome. I thank you so much for taking the time to do this. And very proud and honored to spotlight your book. And man, just wishing you just continued success. I I know you're you're doing, you've already done so many amazing things, but I love seeing your drive and desire to continue helping more and more people and help help more and more people succeed. And man, I just love your energy. I love what you're doing. And again, proud and honored to have you on the podcast. And man, just keep doing what you're doing. Can't wait to see everything more that you continue to do throughout your career and your coaching. And uh, man, just just excited about this and can't wait to see all you continue to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Yeah, man. I'm glad we get introduced. I'm glad I'm in your circle, and it's really uh it was a great conversation. So we'll talk again soon. I can't wait. Absolutely. Thanks, Chris.