Everest, Death Road and Sharks" — Said Nobody Ever (Except Ash Holmes)

Most of us have a bucket list. Ash Holmes has a different problem — she's already done the things most people would never dare put on one. Everest Base Camp guide. Award-winning Nurse Educator. Cyclist of Bolivia's infamous Death Road. Shark diver. Oh, and she's 33.

Ash tells Christopher Stear about the expeditions, the near-misses, and the unexpected lessons in courage and leadership that come from putting yourself in the world's most extreme places. It's a conversation that will make you laugh, make you squirm, and — quietly — make you wonder what you're capable of.

One of our best episodes yet. Press play.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Unlocking Your Remarkable, the podcast where we go deep with people who've broken free from ordinary lives and built something extraordinary. I'm Christopher Stier, and today's guest is someone who proves that remarkable doesn't mean reckless, it means relentlessly curious. Ash Holmes is 33 years old. She's a registered nurse, a TAFE nurse, educator of the year, and an Everest base camp guide who leads adventurers to one of the most extreme destinations on Earth. But this isn't a story about adrenaline for adrenaline's sake. It's about what happens when you stop waiting for permission to live the life you're actually capable of building. In this conversation, Ash takes us from leading a first Everest expedition to cycling Bolivia's death road and diving with sharks. And she does it with humour, honesty, and the kind of clarity that only comes from standing at 5,364 metres wondering if you've lost your mind. Ah, this episode is brilliant. It's sometimes hilarious, and it'll leave you wondering what you'd do if you stop playing it safe. Let's get into it. It's great to have you and welcome you to Unlocking Your Remarkable. And I have to say your remarkable reputation precedes you. This is probably the very first time I've interviewed anybody where I've had to ask them. So Ash, the Everest Base Camp, you and a group and you're leading the group, so you had to do an enormous amount of prep. But well and we'll talk about that in a moment. But what did it feel like when you first arrived there?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Honestly, the first time I went, I couldn't quite pinpoint where the actual base camp started because you're feeling so small. You've got these huge crevasses that go for kilometers long, and you can hear the ice cracking around you, and then you can see the odd little avalanche in the distance as well. And so there's a lot going on, and then suddenly you start to recognize as you're getting closer to the base of these huge mountains, these tiny little yellow specks, which are tents, and you think, goodness me, that's where the base camp is. And how small does that tent look? We're kind of standing on base camp, but base camp is just this massive, kind of exposed area. And then they've just planted a rock where we go, that's base camp for us. So that's as far as we'll go. And it's just it's created as this beautiful shrine. But you feel like an ant. Like you feel like the smallest speck on the planet, surrounded by these just monsters of mountains around you. I didn't realize how huge it was.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

And how old were you then when you first went to Everest?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Oh, it was probably around 2016, the first time I went. So I was in my 20s, like early 20s. And then after that trip, I swore that I would be back. I didn't know when, I didn't know how, but for some reason, I just knew I had to show this to more people. And so the years came and they went, and then eventually I started teaching yoga and I started mixing and mingling with people that were kind of interested in exploring that avenue. And I just went on a bit of a limb. In the back of my mind, it was a goal, but it was a future goal. Like it was like end result goal for me is to one day host a retreat or a hiking experience slash yoga retreat kind of combination down the line. And I was gonna do smaller retreats leading up to it, and that will be like the big ticket option. And I pitched it to a few of my yogis where I was working in a rock climbing gym at the time, so like-minded clientele, uh, enjoyed hiking, enjoyed a little bit of risky hobbies, that kind of thing. And I said, look, we've got a few options. We could do Sri Lanka, we could do Bali, maybe Philippines. I said, there is the option for Nepal, and they all went Nepal, every one of them. And I went, oh, bugger. What have I gotten myself into? I shouldn't have even suggested it. And then I found myself in the next two months planning it and putting it together and reaching out to my old connections, which I still had and kept in contact with over the years, because I just knew that I'd be back. I just didn't know when. And then it all came together. And next minute, there we are, all hiking on the trail, making our way back in that beautiful landscape. And I was just in disbelief that I had actually made it happen. It felt so good. It just it was so good to be back.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

But there's a bit more than and there we were, isn't there? It's choosing the people, it's briefing the people, it's equipment. They've never been there.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

It's totally new, a different world to them. And then it's landing where in Kathmandu?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yes, so we all landed in Kathmandu. It was a staggered landing, so everyone came on the days that they could get there. I gave everyone a few extra days just to explore and enjoy Kathmandu for what it was on either end of the trip. But some of the people that came on this trip, this was their first time on a big international sort of holiday, maybe you could call it a holiday, experience, adventure, challenge. I don't think they would describe it as a holiday, to be honest. Because it requires a lot of planning, a lot of prep, mental prep, physical prep. So we did we did a lot of yoga together. I hosted a few events where I organized for them to come over to my house or meet at a location to discuss the equipment needed or what to expect. But again, until you arrive in those places, I don't think it quite sinks in. Most people arrived pretty prepared, which was great. There was a couple on the trip that maybe didn't have the right gear or needed to go and grab some stuff from town just so that they were gonna be warm enough and had the right gear, just because you never know what's gonna happen. And as you've seen, like on the news recently, in the last few months, there's been some horrific weather and damage to the tea houses and locations that we were in. And some of our clients were reaching out saying, Oh my goodness, what if that had happened to us? And I was like, Well, this is why you have your SAT phones and you try to keep it ahead of the weather wherever you can, and you always have a backup plan or a backup option so that you can pull in or pull out at any time. But sometimes you just can't predict it.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

And how many did you have in your group? About?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

I had, oh, I want to say there was about nine of us, I think eight from Australia clients, and then we had our main guide, Dupsang. We had another guide who was our second lead, Kieran, and then we had Lama, who was a monk who's just got out of the monastery. So he was learning how to guide, and he was on our trip as well. And then there was me who was also part of the guiding team because I had done it before, and I worked closely with them, and I'll continue to hopefully work closely with them in the future, and we're busy planning another trip now.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

I'm just trying to imagine arriving in Kathmandu without the clothes you need, or without the boots, or whatever it might have been that you need, and you're gonna go into some of the most extreme weather on the planet. You can't just wander into Meyer's camping gear, can you? And there's no can I dare I say it, and I'm sure this hasn't been said before to you, is there a Katmandu store in Kathmandu?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Absolutely, but it's not the Kathmandu that you know of. So there's a lot of like kind of Katmandu or Anaconda wannabe stores and shops, but it's more like marketplace. So it's these beautiful little rustic stores down these busy, bustling, dusty streets. And the gear, some of it looks new, some of it looks old, some of it are knock-off, most of it is knockoff. So they say they're quality-down jackets, but they're not. And you can feel that they're not. But if you haven't sort of learnt how to decipher what good quality jackets are or good quality Gore-Tex pants should look like or feel like, and what the zipping or the stitching should be, you're gonna buy stuff that's just not going to do the job. And so I always recommend buying yourself one really decent pair of pants and one really decent jacket and one really decent set of thermals to survive. And if you want to pick up cheap stuff in Kathmandu, go for it, but it's gonna be at your own risk because it's not gonna quite keep you as warm or protect you from those heavy winds when they do kick in. Because we were in the thick of winter, so we did experience minus 20 degrees. And you don't want to be wearing a dodgy jacket in minus 20 degrees because you're sleeping in these sleeping bags and good quality, you want good quality sleeping bags and a thermal liner just to get you through those nights, because you're not sleeping well in altitude as it is. So any bit of sleep that you can get is so important to get you back on your feet the next day where you're feeling a little bit refreshed or able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Tell us about the trip from Kathmandu to the base camp, how it all opened up for you and for everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

What's meant to happen? I'll start there because it could be different. Any person that decides to do these kinds of trips, you've got to go in with the mindset of your plan's not going to go to plan, but we'll get there somehow. So the idea is you land in Kathmandu, I would suggest spending a day or two there, just exploring and settling in, getting rid of the jet lag, and just making sure you've got what you need. Repack, leave the stuff you don't need, and just take the basics. Then you catch a bus, a taxi, you took whatever you've got availability to the airport, and you make that flight on a small plane to Lukla airport, which is one of the scariest but most exciting airports in the world. The runway is gravity against and it's hairy. It's a hairy landing. You're landing uphill and you're flying straight into a brick wall. And on the way out, it's the opposite. It's a quick turnaround and just straight off a cliff.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

And there's not much of a view when you've got your eyes squeezed shut and you're praying loudly when you're coming into land.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

It's hairy. You're not even looking out the window. You can't see what the pilot sees because they close the curtains behind the cockpit. So you can't see what you're driving into or flying into. And I think for good reason. Because it's nerve-wracking. So that's what we were supposed to do is fly into Lookla. And the first time I went, we did fly into Lookla. And that in itself is part of the experience. This time, however, weather was against us from the very beginning. And we had to catch a helicopter. So it was bad weather, not guaranteed to land, but we managed to catch one or two of the last helicopters out for that day. We were scheduled to fly all day up until about two or three in the afternoon, where they changed and flights got canceled. And it was uncertain how many days the flights were canceled for. And so you've got to sort of imagine that if you're going to be delayed by a day or two, that takes away a day or two from your hiking or your trek, and you need down days to acclimatize. So even losing a day or two doesn't mean you're guaranteed to make it to base camp. So more than two days out of your hiking track, you're unlikely not going to make it to base camp at all. So I had to break the news to my clients in that moment, sitting on the floor in the airport, saying, hey guys, we're looking for another option, but we might have to come back tomorrow and try again to jump on another plane, but it's not guaranteed. And if we don't get on the flight tomorrow, none of us are going to make it to base camp. And I know that's really hard to hear. And I tried to mention these things leading up to the trip, but I think when you're sitting at the airport and you've come so close, it's very hard to hear because you've spent a lot of money, you've spent a lot of time, there's a lot of sacrifice that goes into these trips, a lot of planning, a lot of exercise and preparing. And so it's never comfortable to hear that news, and it's not comfortable to give it or deliver it. I had to break up the group in that moment and put half of us on a helicopter, not knowing if the other half was going to make it. And so sadly, I had to allocate that role of leadership to one of my really good friends that were she's well traveled, she's streetwise. I could trust her to make decisions on my behalf for two other individuals who were going to be also left behind. But she was also going to be left with the guides and some of the shepherds. Whereas I was going to jump on a helicopter with a few of the group and head into the unknown, hoping that this helicopter was going to land, not knowing quite where we were going to land, but aiming for lookla in our sights. And we had a bit of a discussion at the airport. And it was uncomfortable. It was really hard to have that conversation because she knew the math. And she knew that if she was left behind, she won't make it to base camp. And she's, like she said, and every right, she said, I've paid the same amount as everyone to be here. I'm a client too, to be on this trip. And I'm like, I understand, but no one's guaranteed to make it to base camp. We could have perfect weather, and altitude could t still take us out, a flu, a sickness, a bridge could collapse. Like for any of us on this trip, it's not guaranteed. And I understand this is really hard, but I have no other options. It's this or nothing. And I thought, my goodness, my friendship here in this moment could be ruined forever. But I was I knew we're both nurses, we're quite straight to the point, and I knew we would get through it. It was just a tough moment in that airport. And we jumped on the helicopter, off we went, and we circled and circled until we finally found a spot where we could land safely. And the guy who owned the tea house was wondering, what on earth is going on? And who are you? For guests. He was like, We're not planning on having guests. We didn't know anyone was coming. The kitchen's not on, it's not running, the kids are in bed. What do you mean? And we had to organize bedding and rooms and just everything on the fly. And I did feel sorry for him, but he was happy to see us. I was happy to see him, and he was very grateful for us to be there because now we're there for lunch and dinner, or dinner and breakfast, I guess. But he was fabulous. He managed to get the kitchen going and he also contacted the guides who were waiting for us at Lookla. So they had to then run down. And that took them about three hours to make their way down to us. And they didn't have to, but they did. And then while we were getting things set up, I still didn't know where this other helicopter had ended up, if they had even left the airport or not. There was no communication. They didn't know where we were. And so the group was split and we hadn't even begun yet. And I thought, oh dear, this is going to be quite interesting. So internally I was obviously quite stressed, but I had to put on that strong front of it's going to be okay. I don't know the route out of here, but we'll figure it out. If our porters don't come down to us, we're going to be carrying our own bags on top of. Which I didn't break that news to anyone yet until I knew for certain that our porters were going to make their way to us or not. Because I thought that's the last thing everyone needs to hear tonight. We just need to get a good rest dinner.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

And what altitude are you at this stage?

SPEAKER_01 16:01

It's slightly lower than a lookla altitude. I'd have to look it up, to be honest. It's on my maps. That's the thing. Is I never even think about any of it. I just I think we're probably around, oh, I want to say like one seven or close to two, maybe two thousand meters. It's somewhere there. Because you kind of start high and then go low and start high and then go low. And you're kind of doing these ups and downs as you're entering through the altitude. And that's all for acclimatization purpose. So we were unpacking some of our bags and getting settled in. And then we heard a helicopter in the distance, and we didn't know if it was them. It was hope it was them. And again, circled, came in, came out, disappeared, came back through, disappeared. I was waving at them, hoping that was the other part of my group. And until it landed and those doors opened and I saw everyone get out, my goodness. Instant relief. And there she was. And I went running up to my best friend and she came up to me and hugged me because we knew in that moment we had a chance now. We were off to base camp. It was happening. But I was so grateful to have her on that trip with me at that time because she handled it so well and she took one for the team. Definitely. So very, very, very grateful for her in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

And from there? So you've arrived there. Yeah. And then it's a trip to base camp from there.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yes. So then that's where the trip starts on foot. And we're now an entire town back and lower altitude than we wanted, because we're not at Lookah, we're about a town or two below Lookla. So now we're a couple hours behind, but also length or distance behind. So I had to break the news in the morning, just letting everyone know that we're going to have to push on this day to try and make up a bit of time for the time lost yesterday. Because what we were meant to do was arrive in Lukla and hike to a town. So we were making some ground, making some distance. Whereas now we're behind and behind. So the first day was a really hard day. One of the clients on the trip woke up the next morning and was like, I can't do this. And I had to have a conversation with them from day two or day one, straight away trying to convince some of the clients that it's okay, it will get easier. Your body is one, adjusting. Two, it's cold. Three, it's the unknown, and the food is different, the weather is different, the environment is different. It's probably not what you pictured. There's a lot of over stimulus going on where people are trying to just adjust to their surroundings and their environment and what's going on in their body. So if you haven't experienced altitude, it can hit you quite early on. And I think for my older clients that were on the group, it hit them quite soon. In saying that, they had the opposite effect at the end. They got better, they got stronger by the end of the trip. They were leading us to base camp at the end. They kind of came alive. And it was all these rules. I know it was so beautiful to see. And I kept them at the front of the trail because we go at the slowest pace of the slowest person. And so I you always want the slowest person at the front because they're actually going to help keep everyone in tune with the altitude. And you just you want to go at a slow pace. You don't want to rush through it. There's no point rushing. You just want to go slow. And in Tanzania or in Africa, when you do Kilimanjaro, they have a saying and it says poly poly and it's slowly. It's just one foot in front of the other. That's all that matters. Nothing else. Look up, look around, one foot in front of the other. And that's part of the journey is just enjoying it through the ups, the down, the pain, the discomfort. Just embracing those uncomfortable feelings because this is it's a short trip. It's 12, 13 days.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

What are you looking at?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Mountains, prayer flags, stupors, this big, wide, open trail that just loops and laps around the edge of a side of a cliff. Yaks getting in the way, having to get pushed off the trail for this massive line of yaks or donkeys, actually. We had so many donkeys. We had a donkey jam. We all got stuck in this narrow street, pushed up against a wall, getting bombarded by donkeys, and they fart like hell. Like so they stink. So you're stuck wedged up against about donkeys, and yeah, it's just it's entertaining. And like no one expects that. And I think you're just peacefully minding your own business on a trail, and then next minute someone yells, yak, donkey, off to the left, and you pull over to the side, and then here they all come. And then they're carrying heavy, unbelievable loads, too. So you're impressed by the donkeys, you're impressed by the yaks, you're watching some of the Sherpers who are carrying equipment to set up some of these tea houses to our needs, our very over-the-top selfish needs all of a sudden. These tea houses have just adapted to our Western wants, which is quite sad as well. So the first time I went to the time I went a few years later, there was a massive change. The tea house that we stayed at quite high up in the middle of nowhere, connected to the monastery in Temboshe, had this unbelievable coffee machine, which it never had last time I was there. And I thought, how on earth? Who carried it? How did it get here? Someone would have had to bring it.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Ash, there are people listening to this right now that just heard that. I know see, I told you we'd be okay if we can go. We will be able to get a good coffee.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

You had good coffee and internet and fantastic food. It was just but it wasn't always like that. And so they've adapted and changed their ways to suit us, which is it's Bittersweet, because I really enjoyed the roughing it and the rustic. But even saying that, there were still people that will be in that moment saying this is really uncomfortable. And not all tea houses are are fitted out like that. So be aware of that. But yeah, there were hot showers. Yeah, there are flushing toilets in most of them. Some of them not the case. It just depends. It depends where you stay. But I think the world was our oyster because we were out of season. So we were going during a very low peak, less busy times. So we had a lot of options and pickings when it came to the tea houses.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

So that trek then going up towards base camp, how many days did that take?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

It was about, I think I scheduled it for around 13, 14 days return. So about seven, eight days to get there. And I think on day nine or ten, we would arrive at base camp and then three days or two days to get back. It's like click of the fingers, and suddenly you're back in Lukla and heading towards civilization, and is the most overwhelming anti-climax feeling of your life. It happens far too fast, and I hate that it does because even sitting on that plane flying out of Lookla, I had tears because I thought, when am I going to be back? Am I going to be back? Will I be back again in this place? Or is this goodbye forever? I couldn't quite come to terms with the emotions that I was experiencing. And I'm sure others felt that too. Because it's such a slog and such an effort and such a sacrifice and commitment and dedication to get there. And then suddenly it's over. And this is where coming back and you hear and you read books of these mountaineers who are coming down the mountain. That's the most dangerous part, is coming down and coming away. Because you switch off. You go, it's over. I've done it. I'm tapped out. There's nothing left in the tank. It's empty. And so you you've literally gassed yourself to get to that point. You've left nothing in the tank to actually get back. And this is where some of my elder clients really struggled because we had long hikes back. We did a half marathon one day. And that was one of the longest days of hiking. We hiked from sunrise and then we got home or got to one of the tea houses in the dark, like pitch black. They were shaking. We were absolutely wrecked. Our energy was done. And I knew we had two more days to push through or a day and a half to push through to make it back. And it was going to be it was hard because we're depleted of energy. But as you hike out of the altitude, your appetite comes back. The breathing gets easier. But for some reason, it's still just as hard.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So you're at that altitude, and it's critical to getting the right sort of nutrition and everything else while you're there. What are you eating and what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Potatoes. So rice and potatoes. Potatoes seems to be the most common dish and porridge. And you have to force yourself to eat. You really do. Pancakes, they do really nice apple pancakes.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

It's a long way to go for a good pancake.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Oh, it's the best place to have a good pancake, though. It's the best pancake. And dull. So like just the traditional food. They're beautiful curries. They will make a mean toasted sandwich as well if you want one. And chocolates never tasted better. To get a Mars bar at that last base camp or the last tea house before base camp. It's one of the best Mars bars you'll ever have. And yes, they've got them there. And yeah, they've got lots of little snacks and biscuits from the UK and America. All these unbelievable snacks that you didn't quite crave until you saw them sitting on the shelf.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Ash, was there any Vegemite?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

No. I don't believe I saw Vegemite.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Ah, they've got a way to evolve yet then.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

No, I don't. But we did bring our own coffees. And so like you can bring your own snacks, and I highly recommend bringing your comfort foods because you can find a way to enjoy it. So even a little jar of honey, even though there's honey there, and if you're very pedantic on what tea you like or what coffee you need to get you going in the morning, in saying that you kind of you start off wanting those things and then as your appetite dies off, taste buds change in altitude, everything changes. And you start craving different things. Pringles. I remember opening a pack of Pringles and sitting there with everyone, and it was again the best thing of Pringles we ever ate. They just tasted better. And this was after that day getting out. So it was the second day back, and it was the day we pretty much did a half marathon of hiking. And while we had ordered dinner, it was coming, we looked at the Pringles and went, shall we? And man, they were so good.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So you've come back, you've got to the tea house, then you've got back to Kathmandu. Yeah. You've flown back.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

And a couple of days in Kathmandu to recover.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah. I enjoy having at least three or four days in Kathmandu. Not everyone does. Some people will fly in, spend a day, and then fly out. Becomes like a bit of a business trip. But I feel like you've just earned yourself this amazing rest and everyone is on such a high. We're also quite sick of each other because we've just spent the last however many days dealing with our absolute worst sides and knowing that we want a bit of space. We want to explore the town, we want to go shopping, we want to buy the little trinkets, we want to reward ourselves for what we've just conquered. And it feels almost. And there is just this beautiful cafe or restaurant, I should say, and it's it's three stories in the middle of Kathmandu, and they will cater to your every needs. And I think I spent a lot of time in that restaurant just eating everything on the menu because my appetite was well and truly back. And then it's just going to the temples, just connecting with just everything that Kathmandu has to offer, going to the markets, shopping, exploring, having a massage, having a pedicure, doing all those fun things, just enjoying that holiday. And just having a shower. I think getting back to the hotel, I think everyone was so excited to have that first proper shower. We didn't feel rushed or cold afterwards. It was just the best. And lying in a big bed with aircon on and just enjoying doing nothing, not having to get up that next morning and put those hiking boots on and actually move. I think a lot of us kind of bumped into each other that next morning just hanging around the hotel, doing nothing. Reading that book that we brought that we didn't know why we brought it in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

But you were very actively doing nothing, weren't you? Actively doing nothing. You were dedicated to the nothingness of what you did.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Absolutely. We were consciously doing nothing. And then calling family. Like I remember the first time I went, I stayed in the exact same hotel. It's just the most beautiful traditional hotel. And when I got there the second time, it hadn't changed at all. It was exactly the same. And I went straight back to that big, beautiful, like Balinese couch. And I lay on it just for memory purpose. And I just called a friend just to tell her how I was doing and check in how they were doing. Because I actually had my mum on the trip with me. I kind of dragged her along. So the last time I went, I was calling mum and checking in with her on that couch. This time I didn't have to because she was out in the garden reading a book.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Wonderful. Wonderful. And plans to go back to Everest?

SPEAKER_01 29:36

I think the next plans are going to be Anapuna. So Anapuna Base Camp. I've done Everest twice now. I want to explore a few other options just for me. And I'm in contact and the plans are happening. They're in the making. We're busy scheduling dates and I'm extending the trip as I always do. I always like to add a few extra days because I like to take it slow and give everyone a better chance at getting there because I know what the weather can be like. It's not always in my favour. So a few extra days, but I think it'll be about 15 days hike to Anapuna Base Camp and then the sights along the way, the highest lake, a couple monasteries, if possible. And then it's just sightseeing whilst struggling through it. It is. Why not?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Up a mountain. Nothing to it.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Nothing to it.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Now you've been somewhere that has always fascinated me, and that's the Death Road in Bolivia.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Yes, I have.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Now can you describe the Death Road and how it got its name?

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Gosh. Okay, so Death Road is in Bolivia, and it is one of the dangerous roads in the world where all the trucks drive across this very narrow on the side of a cliff, which looks like something you're walking, might I add, in Nepal or in the Himalayas. A walking path is now a driving road. Some of it is dirt, some of it is tart, some of it has just been mowed down by the cliffsides that have wiped out half of these roads. And trucks are making their way down, up and down, and there is there's no passing space. There's areas to pass, but trucks have got to reverse to get out the road for other trucks to come, and they hoot their horn to warn each other that they're coming. It's an art in itself just watching traffic move on those roads. Why not cycle it?

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Well, when you say roads, if I'm in one of those trucks and I look out and down.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

It's just endless. You won't see anything. It's just the side of a cliff.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

It just disappears.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

The tires are half on and half off. So you're yes. And at any minute one of the tires could give way. It's scary. And you're also in altitude, might I add. So you're at quite a high altitude. So you're not feeling flash. So you're wondering why you're nauseated. It's not the road, it's not the size of the truck, and it's not the fact that half of your body is kind of hanging out looking down this cliff edge that just drops into this sheer forest. It's altitude on top of it. So you're it's hairy.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

And sixty-one kilometers of it? Something like that. I think I saw that.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah, it's it's long. It's very long and it's very scary.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

It starts at altitude and ends in the jungle.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

In the jungle. Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Hopefully it ends in the jungle at the end of the road, not coming off the side.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Not down the side of the cliff. Some people it does end in the jungle on the side of the cliff.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

And from what I could see from your fascinating Instagram page, you were on bicycles and bikes. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, just push bikes. Not electric, just your average pushbike and a couple bits of safety gear.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Which is okay for going down.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Well, yes, I'm not very good on a bicycle, people will tell you. I've got some stories. I'm not good on a bicycle. I'm terrible. I'm wobbly. I just misjudge things, and I fall off nearly every time.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I would have thought though that a drop of several thousand feet is a reasonable incentive to be okay on a bike.

SPEAKER_01 33:07

You'd think so, but I was white knuckling the whole way down. It's just brakes, brakes, brakes. I did come off. I came off my bike at one point. Can I tell you where it was? No, I just happened to hit a rock at a wobble in a wrong angle. But you're flying, you're going at quite a speed in some of the areas. And I was the only girl in our little group that we were doing. I think there was about five or six of us. And you catch a bus all the way up to the top. So you've driven some of the road to witness what you're about to go on with all the bikes in the back, and you're feeling really nauseous. I vomited before I even got on the bike. And I don't know if it was nerves or altitude. I I can't tell you, but I was uneasy getting on that bike, and someone had an accident, I think, the month before we did it. I don't know if it was a male or a female, but they had gone off the edge of the cliff due to weather. So as you're going down, you've got this cloud cover that seems to come in, and you can't see the road in front of you. And so if you're not slowing down or keeping tabs on moving traffic, trucks, other vehicles, you're cycling on this road against the traffic and alongside the traffic, and then the road just disappears in front of you with the weather. And so people do come off the side of the cliff, and it's not quite the place to rescue you either. You can't quite land a helicopter there. You can't quite bring an ambulance in. It's hours just to find you. Sometimes if you've managed to get caught in the trees, they might be able to climb down and rescue you. But as you're going down on the bike, it's kind of becomes a tour of the lost. So there's these little memorials along the way where there's a story involved about how each person kind of lost their life, which is it's unnerving. Whilst you have to get back on the bike and keep going. It's yeah, wow. It was one of the craziest things I've probably ever done, I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

And is there any reason you can think of why you'd go back and do it again? Or do you feel quite satisfied with facing death for that 61 kilometres?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

I think the only reason I'd probably do it again is if I'm doing it with someone that hasn't done it before.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Just to see the look on their face.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Just for the fun of it, yeah, honestly. Just honestly. Like I know my dad when I told him when I came home, because I had the t-shirt to say I survived death road. I had to buy it, obviously. With the map and all of it on the back. And he was like, that's something I would love to do. And I'm like, done, I'll do it with ya. Like it was no no question I'd be in again. But would I go back just for me? No, absolutely not. But would I do it if other people showed interest? Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

While all this is going on, for anybody that thinks you're a a little yogurt that does a bit of yoga and is very touchy-feely and then flies off around the world, you also this year won an award as or the year just finished uh as educator of the year.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

I did.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

You're a registered nurse and you teach nursing to new nurses. So you've managed to fit that in at least. You've got a real job.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I do have a real job, thank you. I do. On the side, I guess. My real job pays for my hobbies, Christopher.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

As it should be. So educator of the year.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

That was a shock. I was not expecting it. I'm still quite new to the role that I'm in now. Nursing has been my main job for many, many, many years now. About twelve, thirteen years I've been nursing. And then over the last two, three years, I tapped into the education side of things and teaching. Never ever wanted to be a teacher. Honestly, if you asked me, I'd say you couldn't pay me to do it because it's a hard job. And it kind of fell in my lap. The stars aligned. I had a few people I knew that were in the office space, and the job that I was in came to an end. And as they do, doors open through other connections and meeting other people. And I decided to take them up on the offer. And it I think it was the best thing I ever did because it challenged me in ways I never knew I needed challenging. I hate public speaking. I absolutely hate it. I get so nervous. And the thought of lecturing or teaching in an auditorium with 40 people, let alone a hundred people, staring at you with questions. I wanted to be sick. I honestly felt ill. I was I had upset stomachs and I was nauseous for two weeks when I first started in this role. But the same was when I started my uh jobs. Even just teaching yoga in front of a small group of people, I'd be ill. My anxiety, my stomach, I would be ill leading up to it. And then it would just get easier and it would get better. And you just have to fill in that confidence a little bit. And I don't like the saying fake it till you make it, but sometimes you do have to do that just to build your own confidence or to tell yourself that it's actually not as bad as you pictured it. And as nurses, we're always we're assessing, we're always looking for what could come next or what could happen next. And we're looking at all the different options. We're risk assessing for the worst case scenario, the worst case outcome. So we kind of wear ourselves out by naturally doing that. And even as a teacher, I'm still doing that. I prepare myself as I go into a classroom of all the possibilities that could happen, all the questions that I could get thrown at me. What if the PowerPoint doesn't work? What if the videos don't play? What are my backup options? We just naturally think and plan like that, because that's what we do for our patients. So I think it's a helpful skill to have, but it definitely wears you out. So I would come home exhausted my first year or two. And at the end of last year, I was really questioning whether this was the role for me. And then I ended up winning that award, and it came as a complete shock. And it was voted by the students, and I had to sit with it. I really did. I had to sit with it, and I had to reflect that actually maybe you are really hard on yourself, and you are maybe okay at this. You're not perfect. You've still got a long way to go, but you can give something back and it's working. Whatever you've done was received and they appreciated it. And I'm grateful for that because that's the reason I got into the job in the first place was so I could just provide a service to get everyone ready for industry and set them up because I maybe didn't feel set up correctly or with enough information or confidence to go into this kind of industry of nursing, because it's really hard. And so whatever I can do to provide that for my students so that they feel as ready as they can be, I'm not going to be able to make them perfect because once you get out there, it's very unpredictable. But that's my goal. And that was my goal. And I guess they enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So And it's fair to say you had some pretty hot competition for that award.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

Oh my goodness. The girls in the office, my role models. Honestly, I wouldn't be there without them. Like I've been working with some of those teachers for four or five years in the other role that I was in. And so they were what I would put at like the highest tier of nursing and experience and education. So I never really felt that I was ready to enter that space because I didn't have the qualifications or the experience like they had to come into that role. And they kept saying, no, you do, you do, you do. But I just never quite felt on par with them. And even to this day, I look up to them every single day. And I am so grateful that I did take that job because I've made friends for life, honestly. I've met some incredible individuals with incredible stories, which also should probably end to your podcast here, I reckon.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

So what would you say to somebody that has that same self-doubt? I mean, I'm sitting here laughing on the inside. This woman who conquered the Everest base camp and has climbed the crown of Africa as Hemingway described Kilimanjaro, and has done the death road and survived, albeit she threw up, is saying I can't stand up in front of a few people and talk to them. And yet you're so eloquent here. So what would you say to people that that have those self-doubts apart from enrolling in one of our courses? What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 41:40

I honestly think the reason that I find myself in these crazy or weird and wonderful positions is honestly because I'm curious and I enjoy discomfort. So I do enjoy putting myself in an environment that is maybe a little bit scary, a little bit challenging, because I know, and I've done it before, I know that what will come back to me from that is so much learning, understanding, and a whole new skill set to add to my toolbox. In the moment, it doesn't feel like that, but I just have to trust that I will gain something from that. Whether it's long-term, short term, just an experience, a couple hours, whatever it is, I'm always one who's willing to put myself in a very scary or uncomfortable situation because I think I've learned over the years or over the time, through my travels and through my work and other things that I've experienced in life that it's a period, it's a small period of discomfort, but the stories that come from that are great. The connection that comes from that, the doors that open, the learning that comes, the skill set, all of it, it's so worth it if you can. And I think people are driven by fear and they're scared to go into that unknown. And that was why I put the trip together in the first place, is because these individuals probably would never have been able to plan something like that, to put themselves in that discomfort. And some of them might never do it ever again. And I've wrecked it for them. But I know in my heart of hearts that years later, every one of those people will sit and reflect and go, wow, I did that. I did that crazy thing. I'm so proud of myself for actually doing that. And I think that's where the reward comes, even if it's years later, we can look back and we can say, I'm so glad I did that. And something I live by is I never live in regret. I don't believe in regret at all. I think even the hardest things we experience or the challenges we experience are here to teach us a lesson or to show us something within ourselves, a learning or something to work on. And so if I even go through the darkest or hardest times, in that moment I might not be saying, Oh, this is great. One day I look back and I go, glad I did that. I'm glad I went through that. I'm sorry I had to go through that, but I'm still glad I went through it because look what it gave me. Look what it presented. Look at me now. Look at what I've managed to achieve because of that uncomfortable or unexpected moment. And so I do thrive in the unknown a little bit because I think I'm just such a true believer that's where the best things happened. You just have to trust.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Ash Holmes, truly remarkable. Truly remarkable. I have to say I agree with you completely. It's almost that the Everest Base Camp trip or Killerman Jaro, I'm sure, or or the others, is a metaphor that if you want the great views, you've got to carry a pack and sweat a bit, and your legs might hurt along the way. But when you get there, the view's well worth it. And what a great metaphor for new challenges in life.

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Hundred percent. Couldn't have said it better.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

And you're living it, and you've got lots more to come.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

I think a lot of people do.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

I'm always looking for the next challenge.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Yes. And so it's coming up time for new students now. Yes. How's that going to feel stepping in front of a new group?

SPEAKER_01 45:04

I am nervous, as always, because it's the unknown. How is this lot going to go? I don't know. I don't know them yet. But something exciting stems from that because they're fresh. They want to be there. They want to learn. Well, most of them do anyway, but they want to be there where they want to learn. And I don't know what they need from me yet. So that's always my first class is I guess offering my services and seeing what they come to the table with. And then what can I do with that and how can I get them ready?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

And maybe sharing a little bit of your own life experience as an inspiration for them.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Absolutely. And I think as nurses, we've all got these difficult, crazy stories or patient stories as well, where we've seen someone come back from something horrific or horrible, and they've got this beautiful tail end story on the end of that. And to inspire our students that this is just the smallest blimp of time, it's 18 months of your life. Think about what's going to come from this small amount of 18 months of sacrifice and dedication and study. The world is just going to open to you and you're going to see so much.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

Wonderful. Ash, I can't thank you enough for coming and doing this.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

I will never believe you again when you say you're afraid of public speaking. And we'll await news of your next adventure and a full report back again for our listeners when you get back. If anybody's in any doubt at all about your adventures, they just need to go to your Instagram page.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yes, and message me if you're keen to join.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

I didn't mention the shark diving. I didn't mention a lot of the other things that were on there because we're a little bit limited with time. But we've put this really to great use. And thanks for unlocking your remarkable for everybody else out there.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Thanks for recognizing it. Thank you, Christopher.

SPEAKER_00 46:55

That's Ash Holmes, Nurse Educator by Day, Everest Guide by Choice, and living proof that you don't have to choose between competence and courage. If this conversation sparked something in you, here's what you can do next. Well, first, if you're keen to join Ash on one of her Everest Base Camp adventures, and take me, Ash, take me, email me at Christopher at Christophersteer.com. That's Christopher at Christophersteer.com, and we'll gladly pass your contact details on to Ash. Seriously, she's leading another expedition, and if you've been waiting for a sign to do something remarkable, this is it. Now second, if you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Send it to the person in your life who's been playing small, waiting for the right time, or convincing themselves they're not brave enough. This episode might be the nudge they need. And finally, if you want more conversations like this one, subscribe to Unlocking Your Remarkable wherever you listen to podcasts. Let your friends know. We release new episodes regularly, and every single one is designed to challenge the way you think about what's possible. So thanks for listening. Now go do something worth talking about. I'm Christopher Steer, and I'll see you next time.