One Second by How to be Second

Pilot Episode - One Second by How to be Second

• Nathan Young

Share episode

If you want more like this, subscribe or find more on Howtobesecond.com

This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

If you want more like this, subscribe or find more on Howtobesecond.com

This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy.

Nathan:

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is the pilot episode for one second, A conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together in our vernacular at H two B two. I am a second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural OneIC. Enjoy.

Mondo:

Do you have a sense of you want to drive, I, you need me to drive, or we're both just gonna drive when we need to drive?

Nathan:

Let's make our plan, and that is. It feels right when you say it that we both drive

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

historically in our conversations, one of us sets the other person off. That person goes for a while, and then eventually I jump in or you raise your hand.

Mondo:

Okay, perfect. There we go. We got it. All right. That's all. That's all we needed. All right, bet.

Nathan:

I know that it would be remiss to not talk about, I mean, the core of the idea of like the relationship, right? And so how I'm gonna jump into that is, I wanna tell you this story that I just, I had a phone call about matchmaking

Mondo:

Okay,

Nathan:

Right before this conversation.

Mondo:

Let's go for it.

Nathan:

I did not know that that was what the conversation was gonna be about. All of the stuff. I mean, it was like textbook. The person called me because they care so deeply about their first in command. I strongly suspect this person is a second. They said all of the, we call them our watchwords, right? They said all of our watchwords, but they do not want that second in command role because of what they know professionally at demands. They're competent, but they're not in the actual like day-to-day execution of that as they were unpacking how it all happened. It was that we talk about. Like you, I was like, you're re, you don't know this'cause you've never seen our matchmaking page on our website, but you're literally reading down the bullets. They brought in a second in command. They didn't, they, it was a standard recruiting process. That person worked for a little while in panic helped stabilize things. really quickly, the relationship like never really solidified. So there was that certain amount of comradery because they had just through something really hard together. But that was all the connection there was over the course of years now, a few years, finally had their divorce very recently. call it the divorce.

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

And it every classic pain of like, it just, it felt like they were always talking past each other. It didn't feel like they were able ever saying things that like made the other person feel better or seen or whatever. And now that they've gone through this, this incredible hesitation from the first who is like, what if I get this wrong again? I don't know if I have it in me. I don't know if my family can go through that. And by family, I mean like it was just so interesting to me because I was like, oh, we have the answer. You, you're dealing with people. There are professional table stakes, what you discovered is that if the relationship doesn't work, it won't work.

Mondo:

Yeah, that's, that's spot on. I mean, when you, when you say those words, the first thing that comes to my mind, you use the term divorce and his response or her response of like, I'm scared to do this again with somebody else, sounds so much like an actual divorce with a spouse. And I also believe there's like a season of like healing or rediscovery that has to happen for that person to gain that trust again, in the same way that you just don't go get a rebound girlfriend or rebound boyfriend. Right.

Nathan:

Or you do and you know what happens.

Mondo:

Yeah. Yeah. Automatically. Like that's a, that's a fail. And so that's just super fascinating that. There's just so many parallels to those relationships because that's how intimate that one and second relationship is. And to your point, I don't think we are outside of you. I don't think we are talking about that relationship enough and the nuances of that relationship. And hopefully as we continue to say words out loud, people are like, haha, well here's one piece of the puzzle. And so maybe that's why we're here. I don't know.

Nathan:

I think there's so much in what we're talking about that is like the core, the core of what we're getting at is we really are better together. I think I see a lot of people who are talking about this stuff, what's right. There are, there are places where this is being talked about, so. I watch the Mark Winters, um, podcast series that he does called, like the Rocket Fuel Podcast, where they talk to visionaries and integrators, right? And he really tries to focus on the relationship there. It's interesting because it's a visionary interviewing a visionary and an integrator. And so every, almost every single time, what I watch is two natural, one ics going at it, and the second is in the room. And I'm like, uh, whatever.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

so at the, at, never catching the dynamic of the relationship. They're talking about the relationship, but they're usually just, it's the host and this, this other first in command talking at their relationship.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

They're never unpacking it. And at least not, not for me and another person who's talking about this is like, I. Cameron Harold, of course, he's got the second in command podcast. He interviews the second in command, the COO. I often find that the first in command, the one I, you know, like the first in command. I'll stick with that, that role. The person that is leading the org, they tend to get dumpster a little bit... And I'm like, Hey guys, as a person who naturally wants to clean up and sort and organize the pile of Legos on the floor, know what I need? need a pile of Legos on the floor.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

We're better together.

Mondo:

Yeah. Yeah. If that pile of Legos isn't there, it's like, what are we doing? Because I've already organized all the other Legos around me. I need something. So one thing that's interesting about that, as I've been thinking of, I'll say the old version of myself and what I thought I was looking for, so like let's give some context to a listener, right? There was a season in my life where I knew I needed a second. I didn't have the language though, right? We talked about this before you put it in your book, like I was looking for the She Cheryl Sandberg, and how you and I met was virtually like, literally I opted in to coalition nine to meet a person that could fulfill that role. The interesting thing about the story, I. Again, how I feel like God works is the human. Tony, what's up Tony? The human Tony, who Aaron thought I was supposed to meet was not there the first day and I was like, oh man, darn. And then we hop on in our group and I don't know what joke you said, but I was cracking up and I was like, that's the guy, right? Like, like I just knew immediately like, oh this dude, is it because his dry humor is so funny and while I'm cracking up, everybody else is looking like, I really didn't think it was that funny, but I'm just like, yo, that was a classic gem right there. And so when you note that divorce piece, right, and like how hard and challenging that can be. The opposite is also true. And when two humans have that matchmaking spark moment when it's genuine and pure, I do believe that it is just automatic, you know, as if you just found your partner in life. And so you and I have been on a rollercoaster journey since we've met. However, I still think that there, there has always been this connection. Like one day you two are gonna come back and do something for however long or however short, like this relationship is going to come together. And so, man, I just wanted to say out loud like how grateful I am for your trust in your path. And then also just being a supporter and being like, yeah, Mando, your path isn't my path right now. And I don't completely understand it, but like I'm still gonna support you and have your back through whatever you're going through because I trust one day it will come full circle. So I just wanted to say that out loud. I think that was important.

Nathan:

No, I appreciate that. Well, let me, I'm like, so same thing from my side, right? Because once again, we're recognizing when you and I, we became fast friends and I don't just mean good friends, I mean good friends fast.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

like the thing about that was I think there was like a mutual, I felt this, there was a mutual, like, I wanna understand you. I want to know you, whatever that looks like. And that, right. The first several conversations we had were not professional in capacity. They were like, that person, something about that person I need to know. And, uh, that has never stopped. And that I think really importantly, like better together idea. So often this is looked at just exclusively professionally. And you and I got side by side for a little while professionally, and then not for a little while professionally, and our relationship stayed strong. The entire time I've been like, no, no, no, no. I don't think you understand that guy. A, my friend, B, if he's like, I have this idea, I'm gonna be like, okay, what is mine to do? Like,

Mondo:

Yeah,

Nathan:

because I fundamentally, I trust this person in that way. And like I believe in their gifts and abilities. I believe in their natural tendencies in the same way that I'm confident in mine. I'm confident in yours. And so like whether that's this podcast, whether it was a business thing, whether it's let's go on a walk, let, right, like whatever the idea is, there's a part of me that I'm like, lean in is the answer like.

Mondo:

man. I mean, even you have used this Lego analogy, right? Like, I need some Legos, and my natural predisposition is I. Here's a whole bunch of Legos, right? Like, like, Hey Mondo, how are you going to do this thing? No idea, but it's that way. And so having a second, but I'll use Nathan Young specifically, having Nathan Young as a partner in that dynamic duo, I also have the confidence and peace of mind. Like there's not a Lego in here that Nathan has not seen. It may take a minute for him to figure out where it goes, but there are no new Legos.

Nathan:

Hmm.

Mondo:

And so I can continue to go and do whatever it is I have to do without having to guess. Like does he have the competence and capacity to put together the Legos? Like that's not even even a question, which. What's so dynamic about how I see you is you'll find a Lego and you'll be like, well, this Lego actually breaks up into 16 different pieces and, and I'm like, yeah, I have no desire to know those little pieces, so go for it. However, you wanna rearrange those 16 pieces and the beauty in that, right, the trust that each human is going to lean into their gifts and each of us not fully understand what the other is doing, but knowing that the ying and the yang is necessary for the thing to work is just, it's so dope.

Nathan:

Yeah, a thousand percent. One thing that I wanted to poke at. Because I was telling people like that we were gonna do this, we were gonna have this conversation. I was like, why would you be really curious about us unpacking and no one can help it? And I, I get it, including me. And it's something you and I have brought up before and that is like, why don't you feel like more people can't find this?

Mondo:

Yeah,

Nathan:

And so like, why, first question first, why do you feel like people don't find this more often?

Mondo:

So I was on a walk the other day and I was thinking about the beginning of the movie, the Accountant. With Ben Affleck.

Nathan:

This literally has come up three times for me in like the last 10 days.

Mondo:

Great. We're supposed to go in this direction, right? The dopest scene of that movie is right in the beginning when the Nathan is putting together the puzzle, and Nathan is putting together the puzzle upside down. And that goes to my point where I'm like, he doesn't just know the Legos. He knows the Legos in any direction. He can make this puzzle work. However, he puts together the 99 piece puzzle or a hundred piece puzzle upside down, but one of the pieces fell under the table. And the character's getting super frustrated because he's a finisher. He needs to complete the thing, and then the other gal comes and picks up the piece of the puzzle. And it's just like here. And I tell that story because from my vantage point, I believe God's like, I'm not giving everybody, I'm not giving one person all the power.

Nathan:

Hmm.

Mondo:

I'm God, I have all the power. So no matter if Nathan can put together 99 pieces and I'm gonna give the other piece to Mondo or it's 95 and five or 90 and 10, like it doesn't matter. No human is going to have all the pieces of the puzzle. And so like, like that clarity hit for me and I was just like. That's dope because I have no desire to know the 99 pieces. I feel special knowing that I can identify the one piece that completes the puzzle. Like just in general, that just brings me joy. Like, we can't figure out this thing. We got all the pieces and God's like, all right, Mindo, I'm gonna use myself through you and say the thing. And I'm just like, yo, that's dope. Like I, that's just a dope experience to me. So I bring that up to answer your question that I don't believe people are self-aware enough to know if they are the 10 in the 90% or the 5% and the other, they need the other 95 or whatever. Like what are they going for? So for me, like I wanted to be the, I. Enigma in the story. Like, like Nathan can know, 99.9 pieces of the puzzle. Just give me the 0.1, like I just always wanted to be that character in the story, but that means that I am reliant

Nathan:

Mm-hmm.

Mondo:

on the person who has the other have, so people who are not able to find that other person, I would be like, you haven't found them because you're only 70% good at what you're doing. Like you haven't even fully developed yourself enough to find a second who has 90% of the puzzle. Right? Because like a 70 30, like that's, that's a cool team. But it, I feel like. Y neither one of you are a class yet, right? Like Nathan has 90 pieces of the puzzle. That's a right. Like that's a grade and I got the other piece. And so like until we get to a point where we become the best versions of ourself, we are good getting somebody else who is a contrast to our yoke. And eventually, if you're not at least 90 10 in a relationship and you're trying to do something big and bold, I believe it's just not going to work.'cause that isn't the partnership that's necessary for that rocket fuel. Go to the moon moment. And so that's just my own belief on how I see the dynamic between that relationship. And that's all I got. So.

Nathan:

That's so funny to hear you talk about it like that because I feel exactly the opposite where I'm like, I can make a plan, I can make a plan for anything. Like, oh, put the puzzle together. Yeah, no problem. I have like, gimme the pieces, I'll do a thing. No problem. I'll invent the thing like. Uh, that is easy. Here's what's hard. What does it look like? Why am I doing it at all? Right? So I feel like I have the transferrable skill. I feel like I have the, who cares? Like the piece that I'm doing is 10% important. Why we're doing it. What, what the purpose is, what the vision is, what the, what's the end thing? Why, why, why are we even here? What are we doing? the 90%. To me, I feel like I have 10%,

Mondo:

Wow.

Nathan:

okay, cool. I'm just gonna do this real quick.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

And you have the 90%, which is anything that matters,

Mondo:

That's so fascinating. Wow, that that inverse is true. I mean, and, and maybe that's why it works, right? Like, like neither one of us are walking with our ego in the front saying, I'm the 90%, this is my way.'cause I'm like, no, Nathan has a 90%. And you're like, no, mano has a 90%. And it's just like between the two of us, we just trust that the answer is there. Or I mean, and I guess for me it's not even the answer. I would say that's a big part of my growth is for me now, it's just like, what's the next best step in the story as opposed to trying to solve the problem. I'm like, Nathan can problem solve better than I can. It's my responsibility to be the guy to take the right next step. So, yeah. Um, I don't know if that answered Go ahead. Sorry.

Nathan:

well, let me, let me tack on, uh, to that just a little bit and. Another thing that popped out at me that you said that I was like, no, I, I'm coming back to that. You said it's like 70 30, like we're not quite at a, on either side yet. And you said a lot of that has to do with like how willing I am to be self-aware.'cause what you said is like on your side it's 90 10 and you've got the 10 and I've got the 90. That's because you are so self-aware of what you are good at, what you are willing to do, where your energy is like you don't need more than that to be fine.

Mondo:

Agree.

Nathan:

I'm on the other side and I'm going, know myself so well. I've done the work. It has not been easy to release a lot of the stuff that supposedly makes me valid, that gives me validation. I don't need those pieces to feel like a whole person. I'm fine carrying my bit and going this, I'm fine. I'm me, I'm the whole me.

Mondo:

Yep. Yep.

Nathan:

It doesn't, I don't need that thing that you carry to also be who I am and feel valid. I don't need it anymore. That is a crazy journey to go on. Like that is, it's feels, um, uh, self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing, whatever the, you know, where it is that's like, makes me, I'm painting a better picture of myself, but there's a certain amount of like, I've done some hard work get to the point that I just said.

Mondo:

I mean, I, so I don't, it is clearly not the whole game, but it's definitely a saga is complete once you get there. Right? Like, like when you were saying that I, and you were reaching for that word, I was thinking of Maslow's hierarchy. It's like that's what self actualization is. It's like you've reached the pinnacle of yourself. It has nothing to do with anything outside of you. You're just like, I am Armando Davidson and that's good enough. And if there are some more things that you wanna layer on top for me to like serve others so they can become the fullest version of your, their selves, great. But like. I don't need the applause, I don't need the more trophies or whatever. Like I am fulfilled just sitting here in this spot having a conversation or doing a project with other people that are also fulfilled because then everybody on the team is a selfless servant, right? Like it's, it's just a different, I just feel like it's a different game. I remember I was having a conversation with somebody one day and they were just frustrated a little bit with how life was unfolding and I was just challenging them. Like, maybe you're supposed to play a different game. Like not change the actual. Sport that you're playing, but like shift your mind so you're playing a different game within the sport. So like, I know you and I like lasso, like,'cause it's just great storytelling, but I feel like Lasso wasn't playing the game to win. He was playing a different game. You can decide what game he was playing, but like winning was secondary to him. But I believe that's because some humans in that one spot, I like to believe I'm one of those humans already believe we won the game. And so if God is like, I'm also gonna give you this trophy in this secondary game, cool. But I might give you second place. Well that's cool too. The, the idea is just like helping others that are participating in the game with you. Experience the game even more with more glory, with more grace, with more happiness, with more joy. And so everything about how I show up now is like, how do I make this story better for the people around me? And as I'm focused on the relationships, whatever the tactical stuff is, well, the second got that. I mean, I don't even gotta think about that. Like, oh, he's building an engine for the rocket to go to Mars, and I don't know anything about engines. So like, why am I even thinking about that? However, I need the humans that are gonna get in the seat to fly that bad boy to Mars. I need them to be healthy enough that they don't faint at takeoff. Right. And they're fulfilled, and so anyways.

Nathan:

I love the lasso analogy too.'cause I mean, we're circling the exact same idea and that is, it really does come down to who you are as a person and like how that, that drives your relationships. And this dynamic is a relationship

Mondo:

Mm-hmm.

Nathan:

again, professionally. still a relationship. And just like my wife and I have a relationship or my kids and I have a relationship, like what I bring to that defines what kind of relationship we get to have. And I'm thinking about Rupert, the character in Lasso, right? And I'm like, his whole sense of self was defined by the stuff he had, especially compared to others. And anytime he lost, anytime he lost. That like ability to go look at this thing that I have. He lost his own validation. he didn't actually have his own sense of self-worth. It was all wrapped up in all of this stuff that he lorded over other people. That was his whole arc. And I'm like, but, and so like Nate, which is extra funny, I see this character arc a lot in myself in this Nate character where Nate is like also doing that. He's like looking for his validation in others desperately. And anytime that he can't, he latches onto people to find that validation. to do a really good job to maintain that validation. His dad, his team, uh, Ted, uh, the other, right. And then Ted is giving validation to other people, not just him, bails on that. Fi Rupert tries that one, like is willing to do whatever it takes to get that validation. We basically don't see him come back and start living the best part of his arc until his girlfriend finally confronts him and is like, what the hell is your problem?

Mondo:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan:

You're fine, dude. Like when it comes from here, you'll be able to have a good relationship with other people.

Mondo:

So let me ask before we pivot to the next question. Would you say for you as a healthy Nathan Young, was it little bits of sand and eventually you just realized one day like, oh, I'm here. Was it like defining moments? Was it after you went through some big wars and it was just like, here's a third, here's another third. Like, like how, how or when did you come to become this version of yourself? I don't even know if I'm asking the question clear enough, but clearly there was an arc of hard stuff and you navigated it in a way that you are here now. So like, um, can you speak to a piece of that journey?

Nathan:

Yeah, I would say'cause you, because we are, I believe core of our identity is what we are stuck with. Like Trees. like, uh, okay, whatever kind of tree. I'm a maple tree. maple tree forever. But you can shape how a tree grows, right? The art of Bonsai is literally to carefully sculpt the growth of this thing that will always be what it is at its core, but it, you can, art. And so you're working with a living, you're working with living art. And so I think about myself and other people that way often where I'm like, you are sculpting living art. thing is what it is and it is going to grow. You are stuck with the core of what it is, but you can do a lot of shaping for better or worse. I was not a healthy tree for a long time. I really think that the core, like, um, I would say the first half, like the first half of my whole life, the year, years wise was upset pretty often. And like that, that story you told about like 99 pieces of the puzzle and then one was missing. I think I was that I was that person at the table who constantly was just furious that I was missing one puzzle piece. the other thing was that I found my, I. I think I found a lot of validation in myself about having all the pieces I was supposed to know everything. So the idea that there was one missing was me missing validation. I, I couldn't get it from somewhere else. I had to get it just from me. And I burned some bridges along the way of that. Like, so the story of the self-work the mature person is one of stupid mistakes and torn down relationship. Like I did dumb things and uh, really upset at a lot of people in my past. A lot of people don't believe me when I say stuff like that'cause they're like, Nathan, you like, that's not the way you move in the world. And I'm like, not anymore. Like, you destroy a planet or two. And then you get some remorse in there. Like, um, I, maybe I'm making it sound worse than it is, but that really was the first half. And that. having people around me who are being like saying stuff that made me, drove me crazy, like be softer or be whatever. And it felt like they were trying to say, be more nice and I was always like, nice isn't nice. Nice is just passive. What they were trying to say didn't have words for was kind. You can be straightforward, you can be direct, but you, and that can be kind nice is nothing or passive or whatever. Right. If we want to, if, if you'll allow me to define the words in the conversation to explain myself. I didn't understand the distinction at the time through those burned bridges and then through finally having moments, I would say substantial moments. It really was like, here's a bucket of cold water. Here's a bucket of cold water, not. I think people were giving me the little bits all along the way, I didn't see that until I had the shocking moments.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

And then I was able to sort of put it together. And only in the last probably six or seven years have I really started the journey of feeling like I had any sense of self and validation within myself where I was like, I'm me no matter what. And that is good. And I think I'm me no matter what. I was always kind of okay with. But that is good. Is not something that I was okay with.

Mondo:

Hmm.

Nathan:

idea of this like 90%, 10% going me, I'm not everything. And that is good. Probably kicked off when I got married. And I just had to face it every day no matter what,

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

and be like, man, I'm so not those things like,

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

and thank God, like,

Mondo:

I mean that that clarity again, that self-awareness is such a, it is such like a bump on the head initially and you're like, wow. Like dang, like okay, I hit my head on this ceiling. But then after you go through it and nurture and surrender some of those habits and agreements, I would say that I look back at myself and now I'm able to laugh and I'm like, oh my goodness bro. Like you were a character boy, I tell you.'cause there's some things that I've done to your point, which I would say was more just on the manipulative side.

Nathan:

hmm.

Mondo:

Um, like I didn't always know all the things, but I knew how to frame a story in a way. So you believed in my side just long enough for me to get my way. And so releasing. That habit and starting to tear down like Mondo, you're not always right and choose to agree that like I'm not always right for somebody else, but I am always right for me. And so I had to find peace in and knowing that whatever God was telling me to do and I believed a hundred percent that I was supposed to do was right for me. Yes. And. It likely wasn't right for anybody else around me, even though it made so much sense for me. And so like I found myself in a, like now I call it the lone optimist, but like I found myself in kind of like a lone wolf. Like nobody else is getting it. And I'm trying to like solve everybody else's problems. And I had to recognize that like I wasn't called to do that. I wasn't called to solve anybody else's problem. I had to find out who I was. To your point, like, and once we find that fulfilling piece and we don't need anything else outside of us and we're finally full man, it is just a different game. It's a different story, man. So.

Nathan:

It's funny to hear you say it though. Like what? Because I'm like, wait, we're both saying exact same thing, but we just showed up different in the world.

Mondo:

Exactly.

Nathan:

Yeah. That's funny to me. I wanna unpack this thing maybe together,

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

I'm gonna try to set something on a plate in front of us or put it on the table in front of us and both of us can unpack it'cause I don't have an answer.

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

The Question is: As important as the relationship is, what are the table stakes or how do you recognize the table stakes of being at a level of professional skill? When do you think there's give or take on that? What's more important?

Mondo:

My immediate response is, i. two things are true. Uh, one of the, like breakthrough seasons in my life that you're aware of is when I started watching The Chosen, and it was, it was a crazy breakthrough because. Growing up, uh, I used to like admire like Michael Jordan, right? And I was just like, all right, he's the best in the world at basketball. So there's my north star. And then when I became a parent, I believe that my dad is the best parent that a human could ever have. So I was like, oh, okay. Like my dad is my north star on like how to parent because I love the person that I have become. So I was able to like look at that. But when it came to business and just like how I felt I was supposed to show up in the world, there was no human that I aspired to model. And that's why I always like art towards like MCU, right? Or Superman, because I was just like, I. There are characters in these fantastical stories that I feel like live outside of the normal predisposition. So I bring that up because I had very Superman type energy and the misstep that I had with Superman was Superman was out here trying to save everybody. And then when I watched the Chosen and I recognized like, well, the era that Superman has is, well, Jesus already saved everybody. So like this sprint to go try to save the world is not your responsibility. Mano, okay, bet Now that I release that how I see Christ is the only role model that I can aspire to be like because there's nobody else for me to look at and be like, I, I want to be more like you. Right? Like, like now I can see an archetype and know that I can never reach this level of perfection, but I can always aspire to be more merciful, right? Or be more kind, or be more compassionate and surrender certain things and be a nomad and just serve just no matter what. Like Jesus was the model for that. I wanna embody a lot of those qualities, but I also don't want to be Jesus'cause he died on the cross. Right? So like cool, there's a hard line somewhere of what I'm not willing to do, right? So I bring that up because one of the things that I am trying to understand as you are asking that question is in a professional sense, how do I show up with these characteristics and lead as a CEO, as a executive, as a philanthropist, as a politician, right? Like, how do I lead with these Christ-like characteristics when the rest of the world isn't operating with those key like fundamentals that I'm trying to embody? And honestly, my response is like, I don't have an answer except for,"Can I do what I feel like is necessary for me to do unapologetically and model those behaviors and trust that?" God's gonna give Nathan the tools for whatever the system or structure is necessary to keep us going in this direction. And like that's all I got. Like I gotta trust that I'm supposed to continue to embody the characteristics of this type of heavenly human experience and know that like God's gonna deliver through everybody else around me. And I just gotta continue to be that motto no matter what. So I don't know if that helped, but

Nathan:

I think it's incredibly helpful, and this is why, because my head, didn't have a preplanned answer to this. I dropped the question. It's something that I had sitting over to the side my head started going, as soon as I asked the question, my head started going in a direction. You went in a direction I could not possibly have imagined. And so now I'm gonna say my direction because it's, I think it's a good indicator of the contrast between how the brains work.

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

And I think that there's something here in that like this is very a second type brains situation when I ask the question. And you answered it that way, right? Uh, my brain immediately went to, yeah, I think the relationship is really important and understanding yourself is really important. And then I want to dive into like, actually there are some table stakes professionally, and you do need to have certain expertises in, like, there is a skillset and you need to, you need to be developing active skills. So like the ability to put the puzzle together upside down from your reference earlier, that's not necessarily a natural. You might be naturally gifted at that, but you need to put reps in. You need to build a thousand puzzles. Within the building of a thousand puzzles, what you will develop is skill. You'll start with talent with practice you will eventually get skill. And there's, I think there's other components to that, but I was very, my answer was very like, I think there are table stakes. I think that it's wonderful if you're naturally talented, but there's a fundamental difference between saying I can do that and that's what I do. And the reps and the war that you have seen are like,'cause I think there's four parts to skill. I think there's talent. I think that plays a huge, it's a multiplier effect, right? Jordan clearly had talent. LeBron has talent. Those are incredibly talented human beings. There's practice. actually have to put the reps in again, both which Jordan and LeBron have done. There's. Technique.'cause if you, if you're talented and you practice in a stupid way, then like you're gonna write like, so there's actually understanding the techniques. What are some of the best practices? What are some of the skill sets? What are some of the whatever. If you're, if you're a p and l owner in a professional sense, like if you can't, if you don't know what the four financial statements are, how to develop them and what they're actually supposed to say and how they're supposed to work and how to communicate that and how other people are supposed to be able to understand information from those things. Like you don't have the technique down. And if you haven't built a hundred of them in practice or in reality, then like, doesn't matter how talented you are, savant your numbers all day at the end of the day. Like, can you communicate these things in a way that other people understand them and then, uh, in a way that is understood already, like within the, and then the last one is war. Have you been to war? Like, have you had a person show up at your doorstep and be like, it's nice that you have the technique. It's nice that you did the book learning. It's nice that you practice and it's nice that you are, um, that you're naturally numbers inclined in all of these things right now. Gimme the shit because I need a credit line and we are either gonna get the money or we're gonna not get the money. And like, uh, so I think, I think there is a, no matter how amazing your relationship is, no matter how talented you are, if you haven't developed a real skill, you still don't get to own your 90% like that. You would still be sitting low on the percentage. You're less than an A in this situation, in the relationship. Like you aren't bringing yourself, it's not just about self-reflection, it's also about have you done the shit? And that's incredibly important. The way your brain took that question and the way my brain took that question, I think is maybe our first like hilarious division to say very similar things.

Mondo:

And I, and I think there again, when I started, I was like, that's the, that's the hilarious secret sauce to me.'cause if I'm like, yo, Nathan, I got an idea. I think we're supposed to build an amusement park that competes with Disney. And you're like. Okay, let me go find all the tools and qualities and people or whatever that it's gonna take to build this amusement park. And then you're like, where are we gonna put it? And I'm like, don't worry about that part. And I think about Jesus saying, if you believe enough, you can move that mountain from here to there. Like, like my role in the story. And again, I'm not trying to tell somebody else to try to be me'cause I'm me, right? Like I went through my war to believe this level of belief. So like, Mondo what do you do better than anybody else? I believe more than anybody. And so my belief is as soon as Nathan has created the plan and found the people, and everybody said go, it will be there. How? No idea. But God is gonna part that Red Sea and we'll be like, huh. I guess that's where we're going. And the reason why I say it that way is because that unknown experience on how that thing happens that way is what brings me so much joy in life because I know it ain't got nothing to do with me. Right? Like it's not like Mondo solved this problem. And so I had lived life so long solving the problem, trying to save like Superman and I got exhausted doing that'cause nobody else was getting what I was saying. And I was like, yeah, bro. Because it's not your plan, right? Like God's will is going to be done regardless if he's going to use you or this guy Jason, around the corner. Like somebody is going to be in a seat to your language, right Servant, right seat. Somebody is going to be in the seat that champions that amusement park. Mando. It don't have to be you if you don't want to believe, but if you do, you can definitely sit in that seat. And so like I just continue to choose to say, God is not going to be like Mondo, I wasn't able to put you in this seat'cause you didn't believe enough. That will not be the answer. He could be like, you didn't have enough skill or, or talent or technical capacity for this seed. And Nathan has some other stuff to do. That's cool. I'll accept that L. But it's definitely not gonna be, you didn't believe. So like I. Man, I love how you talked about the other side going in that opposite direction, because that's why I feel with so much like conviction, like when you're going that way, I'm like, all right Nathan, I'll see you later and I know you're gonna come back with all the things necessary and I'm gonna be like, here's the one piece, so let's go. So anyways, that was good.

Nathan:

funny. And also the same on the other side.'cause like when you're saying it's not gonna be my belief, right? Like, okay, there's lots of ways that I would be willing to say that I'm not ready yet, but it won't be this way.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

I feel exactly that on the other stuff where I'm like, my belief, ah, whatever my, you know, like how big my ideas are, ah, whatever. However, how much skill I have my ability to like put together a slide deck. won't be that, that won't be the thing that stops us. I'll make sure of that. And you're like, what?

Mondo:

Yeah, man, that's so, man, I don't think you, so, you know, you and I always talk about the Bruce Wayne and, and Alfred, right? Like, because that dynamic dual is so familiar to folks and like just in real life, just two humans having completely different opposite gifts on the spectrum. Like I really truly feel like we are sitting in these seats balanced. Where we're going, no idea. However, it's just like, let me find two equally yoked humans to do a thing and like I definitely feel like we're sitting in those spots and so this is, it is so dope.

Nathan:

Well you're touching another, big question that got dropped for us to like tear apart. If you have the relationship and the business stuff doesn't work out, is that the end? And before you and I, I would've said, well, yeah, that's probably the end of that story, right? Like the, I mean, typically as a second in command, you come in and then sort of like the person, some, whoever you're, uh, working with, I like to use the term serve. Um, but whoever you're serving at that time, like that's the thing that you are doing. And I've, I've spent a lot of time like volunteering and I think that's a really important, also like, okay, we're pushing that thing forward as far as we can, and then eventually, for whatever reason, that won't be. What I'm doing anymore. And like that's the end of that. And historically I sort of do, I have my relationships fall off in a pretty substantial way. Like if I'm not actively working on that thing, then I'm kind of like, okay, well I'm gonna find my next set of relationships and the thing I'm actively working on. So that arc is kind of over, even if it's not a bridge burnt.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

that arc is kind of over. Like we don't have a lot of reason to be thinking about that part of our relationship. That's probably a little bit more Nathan particularly than just like seconds overall. But I've had people ask that question of like, I. Okay, so like, but what if you find this relationship and then that business thing doesn't work out? What happens? Like, do you just drop that like a hot rock? And between you and I, it was one of the very first times that I was like, I think you stay friends and who knows what happens in the future. And this is my very first experience with that. So I'm curious how you would also respond to that.'cause I have found it shocking and also we are here having this conversation right now and also like we are young men. we have so many years and so many things that we may do yet. And so I'm like, oh, now I have this relationship with this person. I implicitly trust as this human being and this kind of human being. And like we've discovered so many other ways that we work out, that we work together, that we hang out together, that we whatever. And then like here is the thing that we're doing. So anyway, that, that same question on your side.

Mondo:

So I'll definitely say hindsight is 2020 on this response. So when we first started working together, I had a vision and a direction and I was just like, if I have this person, the second, the COO, which happened to be you stepping into that spot, if I have this person, every single thing is gonna fall into place because I understand what I am not good at. And as soon as we connected, I. I do feel like that spark was there. Just relationships as humans, as you said, right? Good fast friends. And for there to be like a shift. And instead of going this way, it was like, hmm, psych, right? Like for that to happen, I was like, it's definitely not a product of the system that was being built, right? Like I was confident that like we're going in the right direction, but clearly this isn't the right time or the right thing. But my question was, well God, why though? Right? And the reason why I say hindsight is 2020 is because I now recognize that the flaw in the plan was myself. And I say that with all humility because I. The direction that I was trying to go in had nothing to do with God's plan, and it was something like, I have had this vision to conquer the world for so long in whatever way I saw fit the most audacious, big thing that I could possibly do, like that was my plan. When I look at the world now, and this is no knock on these two humans who I'm about to say, but like Donald Trump is recognized as arguably the most powerful man on the planet, Elon Musk is recognized as the richest man on the planet, or wealthiest man on the planet. Those two characters in the story are already there. And so the thing that I was going after was like one of those two characters, right? Just like those seats. And God was like, it's not where I want you to go, bro, but you're not listening and so I'm gonna have to take you away and have you experience something that's going to force you to surrender these agreements that you have made about yourself and your plan. And because I went on that path, I'm now coming full circle and being like, oh, Nathan, here, we're back to do this thing together. And I have a different compass this time. Wherever I was leading us before, we would've fell off of a cliff and then our relationship would not have survived because you trusted me in a way and it was the wrong way. And so honestly, man, like I believe that for a lot of first in commands. If your relationship or that business failed, you may want to first reflect and be like, what about me? Am I not equipped to handle? Like, I might think I can handle it, but like, am I handling it in an unhealthy way? Like where my imbalance, where do I need to work on myself so I can actually shoulder the thing that God is trying to put me in position to carry? And so, man, I don't know if that fully answered your question, but man, I like, I look at myself and reflect so much now on like, I'm so grateful that our relationship paused at the time that it did. So we can come full circle right now and I can be in a more healthier spot. And I also believe like you're even healthier in who you are. And so here we are.

Nathan:

Yeah, I didn't even have a poster then.

Mondo:

I mean even like when I think I'm just like, yo, if God dropped us in the middle of a challenging environment to run something right now and Nathan had to hire 40 seconds to run a thing, you would be like, I got'em. Like you have access to those relationships where three years ago, right, you would not have had the access and those humans trusting you in the way that they do now. And so like just so many things needed to mature in the story on the tactical side in growth and human. And then just on like direction for me, um. It is such a fascinating experience. I just look at everything like a story and, uh, until you become that peak version of yourself, the healthiest version of yourself, you're not gonna experience the the dopest story.

Nathan:

All right. I think we will honor the stuff we just said and I'll drop it right there. Uh, I'll stop this and then we can talk about other technical stuff or whatever.

Mondo:

cool.

Nathan:

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you are interested, if you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself and how he sees the world, Nathan is me. You might be what we call a Second, which is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our, am I a second assessment on our website or Howtobesecond.com/assessment. You can grab the book, How to be Second from our website or Amazon, or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio. If you resonated with Mondo or you'd like to resonate that way, but you're feeling stuck, you can find Mondo on LinkedIn by searching for Aramondo That's A-R-A-M-O-N-D-O. Mondo deploys his natural 1iC'ness to support people who are stuck in themselves and their thinking to break through towards their biggest ideas and their self in a casual setting, like a walk or a phone call. If you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at howtobesecond.com/support Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.