One Second by How to be Second

Conflict? The Identity in Different Roles?- One Second by How to be Second

• Nathan Young

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Nathan and Mondo dive into the tensions that naturally surface between visionaries and their second-in-commands—from unspoken fears and mismatched wiring, to the unintended consequences of saying “no” too often. Together, they explore what happens when roles blur, why shared language matters, and how clarity around authority—what, why, and how—can transform friction into flow. 

After that, Nathan and Mondo discuss what can happen when you’re wired for one seat but find yourself in another. They unpack the difference between the jackets we wear and the bodies we bring and along the way, they challenge high performers to find balance, embrace uncomfortable seasons, and recognize when it’s time to fly — and when it’s time to walk.



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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy.

Nathan:

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

Mondo:

all right, Nathan. One of the things that have been coming up consistently in conversations that I've been having between like that visionary type and the second are conflicts, right? Like it doesn't always flow similar to a marriage. is a rocky season many rocky seasons, and so for you what. What type of conflicts occur and what do they look, sound and feel like from your vantage point sitting in the second seat?

Nathan:

Okay, let me unfurl the scroll real quick. Conflicts. so like I, I am married and I have worked with a bunch of different, first in commands of lots of different identity types. So I feel like I have so many answers to this. And also at the end of the day, like it comes down to clarity and on some level confidence and fear, and almost every single example of like a disconnect. Comes down to just that baseline thing. I had somebody not that long ago be like, Nathan, why is everything always so nuanced with you? The thing that we're talking about right now doesn't always have to go back to like identity and personality and the way you feel as a human. And I went, that's not true. That is literally how everything works. Like you only want to do that thing'cause you have something baked in you that tells you that it's gonna do some other thing for you. It's gonna give you safety, it's gonna take you out of like a thing you're afraid of. It's gonna give you some sort of certainty. Like this is the only reason you're doing anything. You're looking to self satisfy something that's going on. Whether that's to curb a fear or whether that's to, gain a joy like. That's, that's the only reason you're doing any of this crap. So like, no, I really can take it down to that level. That's simple. To me it feels nuanced because you're not familiar with the work. And so what I will say is I'm gonna anchor everything to that and it catches me off guard constantly.'cause it's like, oh, why are we having a conflict? And then I think about it within my own self and body and I'm like, oh, because I'm afraid. That's why we're having a conflict.'cause I'm afraid of this thing and so I feel like we need to turn left here. You feel like it's fine to go right or to not know at all. And I'm like, right, but I'm afraid and that's why we're off step with each other. When the first in command has a bunch of ideas, and as especially being a second in command, my job is to say no a lot. That's a dance we have to do. You have to try to spin me all the time and I have to be like, Hmm, too many spins and like we had to step out the sequence, right? Or, um, we only have so much fire and that means we only have so much heat. And so like we can only cook so many things at a time. If you put too many skewers on the barbecue, like the heat has to distribute to way too many pieces of something. And so like it takes a really long time to cook. And if you do that. Too far. Then eventually, like nothing will actually finish cooking, right? There is a way that it can slow down to the point where nothing gets done. That's the first most common conflict, is the first wants to do a thing, feels like it's the right move or the right call, or that it's a cool idea. And the person in this role, or just me as a human, I'm always like, let's think about that for a second. Does it syn grow with our other things we've already committed to? I have to understand how the puzzle pieces fit together. It is really easy too, to just start having a gut reaction of saying no, which is, I think, deeply unhealthy. cause you've learned this idea that like, well, all of your ideas don't fit into my plan, and so I'm just gonna say no. Which is hilarious.'cause I'm like, well, they're the first in command. It's kind of their plan and you're like putting it together. So like that's like a huge off the page thing. Like now you're fully off the page. This is a full disconnect and this is gonna cause conflict. so being off the same page and that idea of like constantly being the person who says no. Is really bad. as a second in command, you have to catch every idea softly. And I used to even use the term parking lot. I don't use the term parking lot anymore now. I say cool ideas list. Like,

Mondo:

Okay.

Nathan:

because parking lot, you know, dude, if I tell you that idea's gonna go into the parking lot, you're like, so it's dead then.

Mondo:

All right. It's underground. Six.

Nathan:

Yep.

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

Yep. Yep. You're like, this isn't even a good way for you to tell me that you just killed that. You have to not say yes, but you have to not say no. So like, you have to maintain excitement because ideas, when they come out, they're like very fresh and so you can kill them very quickly and you can't do that. Because they might be great ideas, but they might be just reactions in this moment. And we need to foster that and figure out how it does work together. So like you can't say yes, but you can't say no. that's the first like major conflict. I think most of the conflicts stem from that. And then the other thing is like when you haven't spent time together enough, I see this come up in my marriage a lot and that is when we haven't. Gotten same page or we haven't sort of like had a conversation with each other and asked some of those questions about like, what are you inspired by? What am I inspired by? Like, what are we trying to do together better together, right. when we've sort of been going in our own directions without coming back together for a conversation. It doesn't take very long. I mean, a couple weeks. We find that we just keep going down our own sort of lanes and become more and more and more people who have created plans that don't include the other person. And that I think is the other primary conflict. they all center around that first thing, but the primary conflicts that occur are, I'm a killer of ideas. That causes grief and that also causes separation. And then if you are separated for too long, you won't need to kill ideas. You won't be told them at all. something that comes up constantly is when the identities like, are sort of mix matched. A natural first, a natural one, I see as we say, and a natural second. There's sort of like a, a natural togetherness there. the skillset compliment each other. The ideas compliment each other. That won't always be the case of the identities in those seats. So another really common conflict that occurs between the person who's in the first in command seat and the second in command seat is that you may actually have a second in the CEO seat and you may have another second in the second in command seat. So you have two mastermind domino line people who are fighting each other. They're both puzzle builders and neither of them is the, gets the one piece of the missing puzzle off the floor people, right? Nobody's like inspiring the other person. They're both just trying to sort of out task each other or out plan each other, and their fears are the same. They both crave deep certainty. They are afraid of clarity and uncertainty, and so they're both trying to extract certainty from each other where there is none to give, and so that is like terrifying. That's like a really common conflict between this thing.

Mondo:

I imagine somebody just heard that they're like up dancing, jumping in circles like, yes, yes. Like, like that's me and this other person. How do we solve that, Like they're like, Nathan, you just hit that right on the head and please give me an answer. Or where do I start? Or what do I do? Because I have exhausted trying to navigate that relationship over the last two years and nothing has worked so. I'm not saying that you have a magic wand, but I am asking is there one piece of advice you can offer for two people who are walking that challenge right now?

Nathan:

In my lived experience, two seconds have the ability to have a great relationship. I partially understand this because my wife is a second and I am also a second, right by identity and actually within the how to be second community. There are a bunch of married couples who are both seconds. So the first thing I would say is it can work. The second thing I would say is recognize the identity. Do some personal work. Like right now, like right now, this is not a professional problem. This is a personal problem

Mondo:

Yeah.

Nathan:

and towards that, get somebody else to do this work with you. Trying to do this work alone is so stupid. Do not do it. Oh my god. I know you think you can solve this yourself. I know that your strongest muscle is seconds. I'm speaking directly to you. I know you feel like your strongest muscle is. You get it done and you figure it out thing. Stop using it. Don't please go find someone out.

Mondo:

because in the most respectful way, the image I'm having in my head right now is two seconds saying like. Yo, a rectangle. And the other one is like it's a rectangle and it's like, whoa. Rectangles can have different dimensions. And then somebody else comes in and it's just like, it's a cube, and they're like, yeah, it's a cube. Like, we've been arguing about this rectangle, and it's like actually like a little bit deeper than that. It's a multi-dimensional thing and like we just had to zoom out a little bit. So you saying bring somebody else in to just look at. It from a different vantage point is the thing that they're missing. So it sounds like somebody needs to go to how to be second.com and lean into some type of coaching experience. So so Nathan didn't have to say that out loud. I'm saying that out loud. So go do it right now.

Nathan:

I appreciate that I'll, I'll throw one last one out there, and that is not necessarily between a visionary and a second, but something that happens in professional spaces between the first and second in command is that you often have what we call the Batman and Robin. And so one of the conflicts is Robin is going to be Batman eventually. So you have two ones on a path together because that's just how a lot of professional stuff moves in that way. And the story will always be these people at the core of their identity are going to split. There's not a puzzle piece match there. You just have two fish who are not yet too big for the same pond, but it is inevitable. And so that is also, unfortunately, a common conflict point, is that you have a second buried somewhere underneath those two people who's dealing with the conflict of two kings in a single kingdom. It's going to break at some point. It's not a question of if it's when. And so then that's one of the conflicts is you put two firsts in one place. So, okay, so now let me flip the question What are the conflicts from your perspective?

Mondo:

So I remember when you and I started working together and you were telling me no, like immediately I was like, This is new because then I could like you know, I'm naturally an influencer, so I like reframe it a different way. And you're still like maybe kinder or maybe more stern. You're like still no, but, okay, cool. so one of the conflicts could be ego, right? Not having an understanding on how decisions are made. And so for you and I, I would say. The conflict was resolved simply because we created some language where you were like, Mando, your responsibility is the what and the why, what we are doing why we are doing it. And as a second, your responsibility is how, how it gets done. That doesn't necessarily mean that. I can't suggest some things at the how, or you can't suggest some things in the what or the why, who has authority to like make the final decision in those buckets is the how person and then the what and the why person and it just made things really easy. Yes. And it made me stay on a straight line because. I would then have like 600 ideas a week, and then you would be like, Mando, does that tie to the what and the why? We agreed on. And I'm like, well, not right now. And then you're like, all right, well I'm gonna put that in a parking lot. I was like, oh, okay. So, uh, that just very like, easy tactical thing gave me the. freedom and flexibility to say a bunch of things out loud, come with new ideas all the time. You say yes, no, or maybe, and put it where it's supposed to be, but me. Also not stopping. doing what I do, Because you brought up like, hey, if you just consistently say no over and over and over, eventually that person's just gonna stop telling you ideas and go do it without you. And so we just figured out, uh, ebb and flow that worked for us. That doesn't necessarily mean that that works for everyone, but because can have an idea this hour that I think is dope. And then the next hour have an idea that I think is 10 times more dope when you say no to a thing. It just like inspires me to go like, think through that idea a little bit more until something else pops out on the other side. And so was just such a great experience, but I can see how someone who is navigating life, as you said, fearful. Fearful that I'm just gonna talk from the one seat fearful that, oh, I have a great idea. My second said no, well this whole thing is gonna crash and burn because the second didn't say yes to my idea. Right? Like, that's fear. That's a fear response as opposed to, oh, okay, well if that's not it, I'm coming with some more heat. so yeah, for me, I. I really resonated with what you said about everything stems from identity, the feeling like the inner most desires, right? Either I'm seeking joy or I am running away from all the things that I fear facing. And I believe that wholeheartedly that every single thing that we do, every experience is just an expression of to nudge you to go towards something or away from something. That is like a psychological trigger,

Nathan:

I also want to call out like how important. What you just said about language is,'cause you and I are still are doing this constantly in our conversations, like we invent whole metaphors that we hold.

Mondo:

yeah.

Nathan:

For anybody listening to this who has listened to this episode or any more, uh, we actually got told this could only go on so long because Mondo and I tend to build up so much context in words that after so long it's like totally lost. So like we can't even record back to back because we just have a continuation of a conversation. the finding common language, common metaphor that you can swim in words that mean the same things to each other is so, so valuable. And not doing that, I think is again, another like common cause of conflict. like you were saying about two rectangles being the same, you're both using the same word, but you mean something different.

Mondo:

Yeah. Yeah. Facts. Facts and something that's so nuanced to that, and I, I believe this now with my whole heart. But I didn't recognize it before, and this is me introducing a spiritual component to this conversation. My belief is, or one of my key verses in the Bible is, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God. And so there's something like very unique about words and how it ties everything together. If that was the thing in the beginning. And so Nathan and I stepped into a relationship and Nathan was a human who had read the word for the previous 30 years. was someone who had not read the word at all. And so even though we were able to create words on the fly, sometimes there may have been some conflict or our words didn't quite match, and so it was my responsibility to go read the word. To like subtly or spiritually get more in alignment with Nathan. So like our words were in more harmony. If you are in that duo, there is some unseen. Tethering value that if you two are both aligned with the word of God. And I just wanted to say that because that is just so important.'cause I see this story play out in movies and films over and over and over where two humans are looking at something and saying same words, but to your point, meaning something completely different. Because they don't have a North Star story. They're both not saying like, oh, well, when I say the word surrender, we are both identifying surrendering to Christ and like what that means, how that feels. Just that whole experience where like somebody else who does not have that relationship with God might take surrender to look, sound and feel like something else. And so that's just a lot of ways of me saying like, yo, when the duo is aligned with Christ. And I know Nathan has a different, term in his book than I have in my mind, but I want to say this out loud. Like when he says, one I see, and two I see they mean something else, but in my mind it's one in Christ and two in Christ. And like when those two come together, miraculous things happen.

Nathan:

I think that's fantastic. I, I always have more thoughts, but then I'm always like, no, that's good. Like, let's respect that, like,

Mondo:

Or it would be a

Nathan:

um. Yeah, we've been told we can't do this. Like, uh, we're just a pinball machine. Like it's just gonna keep lighting up. Well then let me swap and ask the next question. What does it feel like to be in different roles for you as a different person? Let me give you an example. I'm a second. I have had to sit in the. First in command role, I've also had to sit in like just individual contributor roles where I had no authority, no management, whatever. We call this the person and the jacket. You as a natural one you gravitate towards that first in command seat, but you haven't always sat in it. And so like what does it feel like to take your identity to these other seats.

Mondo:

Yeah, I, I love this question and this is 100% subjective, but I believe it all the way. I believe if you are. natural one. The only way you're able to find balance and become what I call the balanced one, you have to sit behind somebody else. has to be a

Nathan:

Hmm.

Mondo:

where your confidence, your courage, all the gifts that you have in a one. You're pouring it into someone else and you're removing the expectation of the outcome because the goal has nothing to do with where the product lands, whatever that is. The goal is to build up the human that's sitting in the one seat, right? So like. You talked about somebody having like certain fear or anxiety or whatever, right? And so I've been in many situations where I served as, let's just say a second, more of like a, a coach or a guide or a influencer someone else who is sitting in the one seat, but they have a little bit of doubt, right? And I was just like, oh, I had to learn. Literally, I had to learn. What that was like because doubt was just so absent from my life, and this is like no cap at all. Like I just didn't, I didn't get it literally. But not getting doubt is a superpower, and it's like a bomb waiting to go off because you have no doubt, you never pause. And recognize that you need to pivot. So that's a lot of ways of me saying, as a one, sitting in a second seat, I had to learn how to pause and be patient and allow my kind and caring and just passionate words fuel someone else until they got to a point in their journey where they were like, oh, I can release that doubt. Oh, I can release that doubt. Oh, I can release that doubt. And then what I learned about myself. Is, oh, Mando, the product, whatever you're building, is not the thing that you actually care about. Like at all. It is other humans becoming the most fulfilled version of themselves and releasing the doubt that they have to then go and step into the role on the team and just kill it. And so for me. Now when I think about launching this foundation, like don't have any doubt that I can go raise an ish ton of money, right? Like I don't have any doubt at all. Yes. And when I go and I meet another one, first in command and say, Hey, you look like you're a person that's looking for a second. Yeah, we're about to hire that person. Cool. Like we're gonna help fund that second seat. But as a human, I know I'm called to pour into that one in some form or fashion, right? I'm standing behind them so they can break through and become a better version of themselves. The foundation, the money, like all the like operational stuff that's bringing us together is just part of the system in which things are working, but it's really that one-on-one relationship that I am going to have sitting behind that one so they can become the best and execute at a high level now with their second in command. So, uh, man, I really love that question because I learned a lot. Sitting in a seat. That was not the final say and uh, I was humbled by it for sure. So, yeah, man, I, I guess I could lobb it back to you because I imagine over and over and over and over, people are trying to put you in that one seat. For sure. They may try to put you in other seats, but I imagine they're like, yo, your competence is premium. So like, come run this thing.

Nathan:

I have had, I think I put this in the book years ago. I, I feel like I've seen so many seconds who, because they are sort of more that like planned person and they do bring that tendency of more like certainty rather than sort of just like clarity and then ego and like belief, right? Which is uncertain and scary. For some of us a whole bunch of people are like, they'll say stuff like, oh, everything would just be better if you were the person in charge. And first of all, they're not totally wrong. The piece that they don't understand, that you also don't understand is the second who is hearing that is there would be nothing at all if you were in charge. So they're like, oh, the room would be so much more clean. There would be so many less Legos scattered around on the floor if you were the person in charge. And I'm like, there would be no Legos. No one would get to play at all. cause I am not inspired by that. I need people to be inspired by, I need ridiculous ideas and incredible confidence because I don't move in the world with a sort of like a missing doubt gene. I move in the world in spite of my persistent doubt gene. Right? Like the way you are explaining that, I was like, no, no, we exist in opposite forms.

Mondo:

Yep.

Nathan:

You were like, uh oh. Sometimes my lack of doubt gets me in trouble and I'm like. I only ever do things with confidence because I am conquering my doubt in that moment. Doubt is my consistent thing.

Mondo:

No. What? Hey, but let's, let's color that a little bit because I've been calling it like an inverted twin. I'm just like, yo, me and Nathan are like inverted twins. All the things that like fill me up and I'm great at. I lock in with that and like Nathan somehow is inverted and he loves to do all the things that I don't love to do and like this, this magic just starts to happen. But the reason why I start saying that and like how both are necessary, you can't have one without the other. When you were telling that story, I was honestly thinking about Apple as a company and I was like, Tim Cook could never had started where. Steve Jobs did and got to this point, right? Like rest in peace to Steve Jobs. He didn't have to die, like to have Tim Cook step into that seat, but he had no doubt in this vision that he had to bring this thing to life, and he did. then it got all the way to a point where then like. Sustained operation and scale was the priority and it was actually necessary for Tim Cook to step in. I would even argue that if he didn't, wouldn't be as dominant.'cause Steve would've probably tried to do the most too much. Right. I would, just gonna call it Elon Musk syndrome. Like Elon's just like, well I can do more and more and more. And it's just like. Yeah, you can. But that the best thing for you to do? Is going to Mars really the best use of your gifts right now given what's happening in the world? Maybe, maybe not. The point that I'm making is without Steve, there is no Tim Cook, Tim Cook could not have reversed and then started in that spot to bring Apple to where it is today. So anyway, that was just what was on my spirit to say all out.

Nathan:

I talk about the identity in the jacket all the time, right? So I'm like, well, there's personal and there's professional, and a lot of people are like, well. Can you really separate those things? And I keep saying yes. Not only can you, you must, because like wearing clothes, right? I bring my body to everything that I put on it. So I'm not gonna go to the gym and learn how to wear a shirt better. I'm gonna go to the gym and improve my body and the shirt will wear better. Like I can still buy a big ass baggy t-shirt and no matter what I do with my body, wear a poor fitting t-shirt. And so I talk about this idea of like, there's the identity in the role. You bring your identity to everything.'cause you bring your body to everything. And then the clothes, you can choose stuff that naturally fits you, but also you can choose stuff that unnaturally fits you. The thing you're talking about. I love what you're saying about. Jobs and cook right now. Because I think if you went back in the life of Steve Jobs, and many people have, obviously there are lots of people throughout the trajectory of that story where he's the only person who can do what he did. And in a lot of ways, that was really damaging. And it makes me think of how the, the booster on a rocket. You just mentioned Elon Musk made me think of like Blue Origin and, and SpaceX and all this other stuff, right? All like launching rockets and especially in the business world, but really starting anything, any new idea. A new idea is fragile and like it needs so much effort to get it to something that can sort of sustain and the energy is like fighting gravity. To bring a whole new idea into the world is like launching a rocket. And in order to launch a rocket, the first thing you need is to strap a jet engine on it. Like this is wild, explosive power that we cannot understand. Well, I mean we, I guess we can't sort of understand it, but like it's insane how powerful this is. Right? We are literally defying a natural law of physics in order to do this thing, to launch a rocket into space. And if you don't jettison that shit when you get to atmosphere or break atmosphere, whatever, like that's not what orbits it around the planet. You can't keep that shit attached and have it keep going. Like, no way. There's a time for that. It does its job. And if you tried to steer that shit, well, this is the Elon Musk story. It's like they're trying to steer carefully a rocket with the booster thing. Oh. Just make a tiny course correction. Woo. But some of us, some of us are never gonna be a booster. Like it's ridiculous. I would say I have learned to wear this jacket of the first in command role fairly well. It's uncomfortable every day. It's the wrong size jacket for my body. It demands a certain thing of your body no matter what. There are some things that are your job because you wear this jacket and it does not care who you are. So it still makes me uncomfortable Every day you exist as this jacket. You don't have to put it on is how your whole ass body is shaped.

Mondo:

Yo. Yo, this is such a great analogy. And let me add something to it because I believe that it ties to now what I'm calling like your second success story, right? So like, as a one, we're the jet pack, right? To like shoot something into the atmosphere. And we've been that our whole life. I believe eventually we're called to step into our second success story, where that's not necessarily the case, and we're actually supposed to go through a season. And this is symbolically, I'm saying this symbolically where we have to go naked, right? Like we have to go all the way back to our Adam and Eve and be like, yo, I've wore this jacket for the last 20 years and I got to the atmosphere. Then I went to the moon and then I went to Mars. And then it's like, okay bro, so now what? You're just gonna go to Jupiter and you're just gonna go, you're just gonna keep going further. Like, like that story just doesn't make sense. So eventually you have to strip it all down and you have to walk naked.'cause that's the only thing that's going to make you uncomfortable. And again, this is symbolically, right? Like somebody that has unwavering confidence and doesn't have any doubt, Like that person typically doesn't matter what you put on them to wear any jacket, a cool goofy hat, some glasses that don't make any sense, like they're gonna be like, I can make this thing cool, naked, everywhere. it might make somebody a little uncomfortable. So the point that I'm making is. There comes this intersection where the one who wants to fly all over the place has to find balance and have their naked season and just walk. Right? And, and it's just like, why is this guy just walking naked around the community? And it's like this reset that eventually you're just like, oh, okay. I've done enough flying Like, let me. Serve the humans that are walking around around me because I've noticed that there are a bunch of things that I could be doing to serve others as opposed to flying to the next planet. And so, man, it's just a lot of ways of me saying like, for the stars. Get as close as you can to that star. then if you're the one, come back down and find balance, walk again, and start the story over and do something different. Because you will experience joy in a way that you didn't know existed. So that's, that's, that's my call out to, to the ones out here that are, that are still trying to be superheroes.

Nathan:

Let me,

Mondo:

I.

Nathan:

I want to drop it right there. I I'm going to take this back. I'm gonna take the ball back, because I'm gonna drop this a little bit more on the seconds I think, and, I want to get a little bit tactical. And so what you just said I think will speak to. The ones out there and for just a second seconds. like a few of the probably prevalent emotions that you will feel some of the pressures from being in different roles. If you're in the first in command role, you're gonna feel the constant pressure, the demand of something that we call convincing energy. It's this idea that man's already unpacked in this conversation of like even being told no and your response being like, okay, well I have to go workshop it a little bit more. I need to come up with a better story. my story's not good enough. That's your response as seconds we need to understand that like the first in command role demands that type of convincing energy for us to lead with that kind of convincing energy 100% of the time. Your job, your primary job is rocket booster and we do not have the same well of that energy there is a limit on how deep that well goes for us. So that's one of the things you're gonna experience is this like. We can do it, we can do it, we can do it. And then you're gonna wake up on a Tuesday morning and you're gonna be not able to say those words again. You're gonna find yourself in the middle of a conversation where you're pitching a prospect, where you're trying to close something, or you're trying to convince a team member to do something. And they're gonna say, but what about this way? And you're gonna find yourself just agreeing, acquiescing. The prospect is gonna be like, I just don't think it's really the time for us right now, and you're not gonna say. What is it time for? Like when will it be time? That's the right response in that moment to push. you're gonna suddenly find that there's no gas in the tank. The car goes nowhere and you're just gonna say, yeah, cool. I'll follow up with you in six months. And wrong. You lost it. Failure, total failure and that lack of convincing energy like this, suddenly discovering that it's gone is going to happen to you. And so like that's a very tactical thing that you're gonna feel in the first in command seat. No matter what, like it's just a reality of your identity. if you're in other positions, like if you're in an individual contributor position, you are going to smack your face against the, you do not have authority problem. And you're going to try to navigate that. Probably your first instinct if you're a two IC is to gain authority. You're gonna start creating a system in your head whereby you get promoted or you get closer to someone who is higher up in authority. Like you're gonna go around your manager, you're gonna talk to your boss's boss, or your boss's boss's boss, or you're gonna get coffee with the CEO, and suddenly you're gonna be fearless in that pursuit. This is both a superpower and also you are going to F this up the first few times because that shit is hilariously insulting. And whatever power you gain, people are going to remember and watch that and they're going to come for you. So fun fact, I have lived this. I have been the person speared in the back eventually, Like the power is temporary and the people that you stepped on will hunt you down. They won't appreciate it. so that's like a natural two I see as response. And a natural two response is to become best friends or sometimes even get stuck under that. No. And feel like that's as high as you can go. And so like, uh, just in a natural second way, Even as an individual contributor, like you have more power than you think you have, you can go around a little bit. just don't do it in a way that's like systematic, like you need to sort of influence without authority. And there are ways to do that. But these are some of the very tactical things in these different positions. you are going to crash against like the waves on the shore, and it's unrelenting. So there's my like specifically to seconds.

Mondo:

oh, that was spot on. That was fire. I was just sitting here listening like, dang, he's dropping some heat. So yo, if you're a second, I hope you received that heat'cause it was on point.

Nathan:

Okay, and now I give up. Now we're done.

Mondo:

Yo, that was excellent. until next time, peace.

Nathan:

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.