What is failure? What restores your sanity? One Second by How to be Second

Mondo and Nathan dig into what failure really means to them. Nathan shares how a challenge from a friend led him to realize he can’t truly fail—as long as he holds to his priorities and keeps his word. Mondo echoes that conviction, saying he’s “already won the game of life” and can only fail by losing a pure heart. 

That conversation flows into one about the practices that help them reset when life feels overloaded. For Mondo, it’s the radical act of stillness — stepping back from the noise to remember what truly matters and rediscover gratitude in the quiet. Nathan shares how his journey with silence and spiritual direction has reshaped his life, teaching him that rest and stillness sharpen his clarity far more than constant motion. 

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

Mondo 0:24

Yo. So Nathan, recently I went on this amazing retreat. There's like 20 plus cool dudes, entrepreneurs, businessmen, educators from around the country. We went on this rest retreat there was a lot of authentic conversation. Just about business and life and marriage and all this stuff, and there was a clear thread of failure, like hitting that wall, experiencing failure and like how you navigate that. Or people literally like asking for help, like how to get through a thing that they discern as failure. So my question for you now coming back is what does failure mean to you?

Nathan 1:06

As you were asking the question, I was like sifting through multiple answers. cause I was like, oh, I have this tactical answer, and oh, I have this answer. And oh, I have, I was like coming up with stories of like business things or whatever that I've done where I, I have felt, I felt like, oh, we failed at that. cause my reaction, my gut reaction was to be like. Anything where I did not do what I said that I would do feels like failure to me. Even if, even if the thing is successful, if I didn't do what I said I would do, I feel like that's failure and by proxy I don't feel like a failure if I did what I said I would do and held my commitments even if the whole thing fails. That's a weird wacky, right. Um,

Mondo 1:53

also fascinating though, too. Keep going. I.

Nathan 1:55

and then, I actually had this conversation. I was challenged with this question not that long ago by someone we both know, and that's his name's Jason Player. And he said, okay, Nathan, like you're doing this how to be second stuff. You have these other things going on in your life. Here's my question. How do you fail at this? How can you fail at this? What does failure actually look like? Let's understand what failure looks like. Like, yes, you have these vague notions of what success might look like, but what does failure look like to you? How could you fail? And I, I had answers right away, you know, like I started saying stuff to him and then he was like, no. I want you to really actually take time to reflect on this. Like this isn't a gut response thing. This is not a reaction that I want. This is, I want a response. So I did, I just took an extra week, some journaling, like walks, quiet, whatever. I, I tried to do the homework, right? So I was like, well, I'm not gonna fail giving you this answer. Uh, and what I came back with was actually Jason, I cannot fail at this. And he was like, unpack that shit for me. And I said, the more that I thought about it, a failure state was, I will have failed at this if I spent however many years trying to get this thing. To be what it could be for myself for seconds, overall, whatever, and all of the people that we support, which is ostensibly everyone. And we would fail at this. If I've spent this many years at that and I have given up what, what could I have given up? And the more that I thought about the opportunity cost of investing my life. Into this endeavor. I was like, I kept painting different scenarios. I mean a hundred scenarios in my head where I was like, I might've had more money, or I might've been in a different place, or I might've, I would've had the same number of kids. I would've had the same wife, I would've, you know, like there were some things that I was like, well, these are kind of true every single time. Uh, and the more that I thought about it, the more that I was like, the things that are really, really important to me. Are things that I've put into priority already, and so whether I was doing this or something else, those things would still be a priority. The way that I fail at this is if I. What, and I, I just kept coming up with a loss. I couldn't think of a way that I could fail because no scenario gave me more of the most important things. I might've had a little more money. I might've had a little more time, might've had a lot of more money in some situations. But what I didn't have was more meaning or more of the most important things to me. And I was like, I think I can't fail.

Mondo 4:46

Facts.

Nathan 4:46

like, like

Mondo 4:48

That's super

Nathan 4:49

I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I was like, I can't fail. Jason. My answer is I cannot fail at this. Nothing that I could do is more valuable to me in priority or meaning than what I already have. So even if I invest a decade into moving this thing forward, and I only have ever touched the lies, I've already touched, I. I don't have any more money and I don't have any more freedom, and I don't have any more time. I still will have the things that are the most important to me, and I will have done what I said I would do. And so I was like, I can't fail, Jason. I can't fail. And so I, I started that off. My gut reaction was like, anytime I don't do what I said I would do, but that, that just happened to me, maybe like this spring, and I had to answer that question. So Jason, thank you for that question. And that's my reaction is like, that's what failure typically means to me. And I'm in a weird place now where I'm looking at my life and going, I can't fail.

Mondo 5:47

I love that. Let me ask a contrasting question then, because the energy you just showed up with, I'd like to say ditto, let me ask this question. Is there something top of mind comes up when I say, Nathan, when's the last time you failed?

Nathan 6:06

Yeah, I mean, like yesterday, like, um, I, well, I feel, I mean, I feel, I feel like I feel all the time, like, I don't know, my inbox has 30 messages in it that I haven't responded to for 60 days, which constantly gives me a, you know, like a little bit of anxiety. Uh, I got into an argument with a friend yesterday over something stupid, and then I had to, I. I had to admit, you know, like I've felt so righteously. Right. And I, you know what? I still feel like I am righteously correct, but it didn't serve us and it didn't matter that like, it didn't matter. And so I'm, yes, I might have done what I said I would do and whatever. And so like, I felt like us, I was successful in the time, but all I did was cause a rift in a relationship and, and try to hold a person accountable to something they never actually agreed to. So I was actually the person out of line, even though. I still have this emotional sense of being righteously accurate or, or, right. Like it wasn't, it wasn't valuable, you know? And so, um, I had to apologize for that. So I failed, uh, like, um, I faced this with how to be second every single day. You know, part of the mission is like to serve seconds, all seconds. And we've done the rough calculation and that's like 300 million people around the world globally. And what we have. Four or 500 people right now who have said, yes, I am this thing, which should be incredible by any measure. And I'm always comparing, right? I don't look at the gain. I look at the gap. There's just this, there's a certain sense of like, I feel like I'm facing failure every single day, no matter how much I'm investing. Um, I don't know. And then some of that, I probably, it all comes down to doing what I said I would do. I feel like that with my kids. Uh, you know, I'll put something on the schedule that's like, oh, I'm supposed to play this game with one of my kids. And then. The week will go by, I will have reminded them like three times that we're supposed to do that thing. They'll have friends over, they'll be like doing busy stuff that they love to do, and so then time with me will just go by and I am like, oh, I failed. To do this thing. I committed to them that we would do that thing and they're kids like, I should have pulled them out of that thing and that whatever, they're gonna have their friends, they could play with their friends a different day. I'm the one with the schedule that doesn't always open up whatever. And so, I don't know, there's a litany of things. It's just sort of the of a, of a guy who wants to do every single thing in the entire world that I even nominally commit to. And if I don't. Do the implication of the thing I said yes to. Then I feel like I am failing and that's ridiculous, but it's how I feel. So anyway, can I turn the question on you now?

Mondo 8:54

you can.'cause those were two starkly different responses in just this moment of like, I feel this confident about this one thing. And then here's some other things where like, I can juggle these failures like a million times over and feel the exact opposite. Uh, that's dope. That's dope. Um, so similar to you, right? Like that first answer that you had. I struggle with the word failure because I reached an intersection in my life where I felt like I already won the game of life, and it's, I can't really say it in a way where somebody will be like, oh, I get that. I understand that. But I was working towards all these external things, right? Like. Big business, money influence all these things. All these things that I thought would establish this certain level of success, identity, this metric, this responsibility. Like, oh, he's that guy. And then I go through the spiritual journey and in my own way, I believe that like I saw God, right? Like Sermon on the Mount, the pure of heart will see God. And so. To anybody who's just like, oh, you saw God? Like, boom, mind blown. You can't comprehend what it's like to see God or what it could be like, but just imagine this breakthrough that you cannot comprehend. Well, when that happens, you're like, well, that's the most successful thing that's happening my life by far, by a hundred fold. And so because I had this experience for me, I'm like. Well, does that mean that I have a pure ish heart and then I'm like, well, I'm a pretty good character in the story then. Like if I'm matching those two things together, so like the only way that I can actually fail is to surrender the pure heart, right? So like outside of being a good character in the story, like showing up with good character to me, I can't fail. I am going to make a whole bunch of worldly mistakes. I'm gonna do some things that looks like I'm taking an L, but when God says like, yo, are you still pure in heart? I can always say yes no matter what. I'm just like, I made a decision where if I can look at you in the eye of Jesus and be like, yep, my heart is still pure. So like I won the game already. That's the easiest way for me to like mark that response of like what failure means to me and it's to be insecure or to pause. God asked me if I'm still pure in heart, then I would have failed can, if I can't say it, yes. Right away.

Nathan 11:20

Hmm. Okay. Now I'm curious like, so just the same way that we both sort of framed I, well I framed it up in the beginning and then you sort of followed through. We both kind of landed initially on. Can't fail except for this. Right? And so now let me ask a little more tactically, and that is like, all right, so now gimme a, gimme me a few examples of things that you're like, even though I was pure in heart, like I kind of, I did fumble the bag in this case, like.

Mondo 11:44

Facts. Facts. When I think of like external, like worldly things like, yo, did I, uh, design a website the best way or was I on time with a deliverable or I don't know, certain things where. The consequences are manufactured to me, but like, might hurt a dollar, right? Like maybe I didn't get the best business deal or something. Like, I'm not gonna look at that as a failure.'cause it's just like, I don't wanna say meaningless, but it's not meaningful. And

Nathan 12:13

Yeah.

Mondo 12:13

if I'm at this intersection where the thing doesn't feel meaningful to me, then I can't fail at it.'cause it just doesn't impact, kind of like you said, like those key foundational standards, those things that like I necessarily like want to. Experience at peak performance. Like if those things aren't impacted. You know, my family, my relationships with the humans that are close to me, my health, my faith. Like if those things don't move at all, then I, I can't fail.'cause those other things are just whatever.

Nathan 12:45

Thank you for being raw and honest about a real thing. I'm gonna be similar, although not quite as intense, and I have been, I think you'll find this funny, funny, uh, I've been committing to myself that I would lose like 10 pounds for roughly 16 years and. Here's the thing. I have stayed in the, in the, in a, like a six pound range for that entire 16 years. So I've been somewhere between like 2 0 4 and two 10 for since before I got married, and I have told myself every single year I'm gonna get down to 1 98, which is the lightest I've been since I was like 11 years old. I was a very fat kid. And now I was not like chubby, like, don't misinterpret that I was a fat kid. I was fat, like big fat, like, like, uh, I was short then too, so like, I was the, I was full wide. Um, like, so I, I commend myself for all the work that I've invested into myself, right? And to get to this point, to be like 2 0 5 is like actually a fairly comfortable space. But I was like, no, I want to like, I want to get to this level. And so recently I had to sit down with myself and go, what? Hard decisions? It's not complicated. I was like, if I stopped eating right now and didn't start eating again for two weeks, like I know the caloric math, like I don't have a special like health circumstance. Where this, you know, just like being a normal human. And so I was like, what, what does it come down to? And the thing that I was like, there's something beyond willpower. I was like, it comes down to yes, do I want it enough? But at the end of the day, am I willing to make the hard decisions? And I had to look at my, all of my behaviors and go. I'm not willing to make the hard decisions, and also I'm putting myself in situations where I get to avoid those hard decisions. Like I'm, I'm intentional, so like, you know, oh, we have dinner and uh, my wife is a chef and she's also a pastry chef. So like, it's hard enough already, right? Like, like,

Mondo 14:53

Yep.

Nathan 14:53

like just, just s tier things available for me whenever I want. Right. As far as, uh, getting the snacks. And so like, do I. Do I get to the end of dinner and I, and I go, well, I don't wanna offend my wife, so of course I have to have four chocolate chip cookies. I mean, obviously I have to do that. And so like, I'll figure that out on my own tomorrow. And the, the hard decision would be, hey. Yes, this might be tough and maybe it even will offend her. Um, and if we have to have that conversation, then we need to, or maybe I needed to have that conversation already or this is a reminder that I needed to have had that conversation and now I still do and I don't eat them. And that has to be that that's the hard decision. It's not complicated. And I was like, okay, I have to do, I have to do some kind of combination. I have to have, I have to find a way to make the hard decisions because I'm not doing it. It's the simplest thing in the world. Literally. Just like, I can eat this or I don't have to, and I'm gonna every time, and I'll find a way to justify it. And, uh, you'll, I, again, I think you'll laugh at this, what I have done for this time. So I'm down, I don't know, I'm down like four pounds right now since the most recent commitment. I, I shit you not, I've vibe coded myself. A counter that counts down from 35,001 second at a time, which at my metabolic rate is 0.025 of one calorie every second. And I put that on a dashboard in my office so that I can watch the countdown every second. At any time I walk through my office, I can look at that and go, I made progress. I mean, like I'm addicted to the progress. And so I was like, I put myself in a position where making good decisions, I'm rewarded every single time I look, every time I'm like, the number went down every second, the number goes down. Um, and so then I was like, I have to be rewarded every second. That is the level of need that I have about being rewarded in this case for making hard decisions.

Mondo 17:01

does that, how does that self hack make you feel? Like it, it sounds like you're like, this is good. I might use this for some other things in my life too.

Nathan 17:08

Definitely. And also it makes me feel like a fucking child. It makes me feel like, like the least capable, like just ridiculously childish to be like, I have to watch the number. It has to go down. That's the only way I can make the hard decision. Ah.

Mondo 17:24

Yo. That's so funny. That's so funny. But what's interesting is when you're telling that story, the hard decision in that example has to do with somebody else and impacting

Nathan 17:38

Yeah.

Mondo 17:38

feelings. so it's

Nathan 17:40

Yeah.

Mondo 17:40

it's like, so just our own, like even in my scenario. I'm just like, oh, like just over and over and over saying no. It's going to

Nathan 17:51

Yeah.

Mondo 17:51

somebody else's self-esteem. Like, what's up? Like, what's going on? What's happening? I'm just like, dang. Uh, well, God said, and you know, like, I don't wanna just blame God, like, like I'm really trying to like, make conscious healthy choices, but, but not doing the hard thing is to like. Ensure that someone else is in a balanced state or like I'm not negatively impacting their peace of mind. And so a lot of times like. Running up against failure for me has nothing to do with me doing it on my own because if nobody else was impacted, it's easy for me to like just have self-discipline for myself. when I have to consider others and having that tough conversation, or not doing the thing that's going to make someone else sad or whatever, like, that's when things get really challenging and really hard.

Nathan 18:45

Uh, okay, let me, let me ask my question now. Let me shift because the gears I feel like are, this is like drive, whereas we basically spent the whole first time in reverse like so, because this feels like the o Yeah. This is the opposite side of a coin. So here's my question that I wanted to ask and that is. What is something critical you do to refresh your sanity?

Mondo 19:10

I mean, the easy answer is to be still, but let me try to color those lines.

Nathan 19:14

Sure.

Mondo 19:14

I believe that most people, but let me say this about myself, we feel like we have to be moving and doing a bunch of things to solve a problem. And I had to make a conscious choice that being still can also be an output that solves the problem. And so like something that's like super critical for me, like if things are like, like too many things are on the whiteboard or too many things are on the checklist, I have to like be still and be like, oh. Why am I even doing this checklist, period I, this isn't even relevant to the actual North Star that I need to be focused on, right? It's just like somebody asked me for a favor or I wanted to like create something on my own, just out of the freedom of creativity to just do a thing or. Kind of to your point, oh, I wanted to drop 10 pounds. Like it's just these things that we manufacture for ourselves. So then we have just all these tasks to do, over time those things build up and it could become overbearing. Or the objective that you actually wanted to reach this level of peace or balance is now no longer even serving that thing because you're doing too many things. And so. is the thing I have to do to refresh is simply to be still, and then the silence just is calming and it's like, oh, like the thing that I wanted is this peace of mind that I have right now. Being still there's no noise, there's no disruption, there's no anger, there's no frustration. There's no nothing. It's just like, oh God, thank you for giving me the freedom and flexibility to be still. Right. Thank you for giving me a roof over my head to be able to just sit here and not do anything for 90 minutes. Like most people just don't have that, or let me not say, most, many people don't have that freedom. And so being still for me, just puts so many things into perspectives. The blessings that I have, the opportunity that I have to just make choices to move at my own pace. Those blessings reveal themselves to me over and over and over when I just choose to be still. So let me, let me throw that back at you. what do you do to refresh your sanity when you're in those critical moments? Great.

Nathan 21:31

The same. My answer is the same. I have a two part answer, but that's the same. I've been meeting with a spiritual director for the last three years. I grew up in a very religious place, and in the last few years I would say that I have actually gotten in touch with my faith. And, um, what, like, obviously, uh. Christian, I believe in Christ. I have lots of friends who are like, that's not my jam. And I'm like, look, we can call it whatever we want, man. Like if you need me to say the universe or whatever, like, that's fine. Uh, I think we're talking about the same thing, but I don't know, you know, like what? Sure. And so. I feel like I've, I've been really aware of religious practices for a long time, and a lot of those things can be really beautiful. Habits, recognition, remembrance. One of the practices that I have, um. Adopted is this practice of silence and I feel like it has fundamentally changed the way that I move and navigate in the world. And it's like, have you ever heard that thing that's like, I think it's like, it's supposed to be like Abraham Lincoln or something. I don't remember who, some historical figure it was. Like if I had, you know, 12 hours to chop down a tree, I would spend the first so many hours like sharpening my ax. I don't,

Mondo 22:49

Okay. Yeah.

Nathan 22:50

all that. Anyway, the point is sharpen the X and i, I feel like five minutes I can handle much more now. But even getting to five minutes of genuine silence was so incredibly difficult. It actually took me almost a full year to be able to set a timer for five minutes. I still have to set the timer most of the time'cause otherwise I'll get anxious and getting to five minutes even. I've done like 20 minute dive at this point a couple of times just of pure silence of sitting. I, I actually sometimes will put on like, um, noise canceling headphones and turn on white noise to just like, make sure it's all gone. And five minutes of genuine silence is the most horrifying three minutes and then restful two minutes. That I have experienced in like my whole life. And, uh, and so yes, that's, that's my first answer is actual quiet stillness, silence. It's especially the first few minutes are like, mortifying. I can't imagine it. And then after those first few minutes, I'm, and when I'm genuinely in it, I'm like, oh. And I almost always leave that five minutes clear or sharp. So like I don't go into it with the intention of like this five minutes, I need to have an answer. I definitely used to, I tried to put that pressure on it several times when I first started and it almost never worked right. And then I was frustrated'cause I was like, I didn't get the thing. I was using it like a tool. Since I've been able to lean into it for genuine silence and stillness. I notice now that I leave feeling ready and I can go to my next thing and, and do that next thing in a much more prepared and ready way. Um, also, I wanna throw this one out there. I would consider that rest, genuine rest, something that actually gives me a. Um, clarity back, sanity, rest. Also, like, you know, everybody likes a little bit of comfort food and so I also, I, uh, I also love comfort and it actually goes back to what I mentioned about losing weight. And that is like this, this timer, I. Number go down is like a, is like so satisfying.

Mondo 24:58

Number

Nathan 24:59

And so I play, yeah. Number, go down number, go up, whatever. I just want to know that the thing that I did had a direct impact on the universe. I just want to know it is one-to-one and, and I can control it and it's so satisfying and so, uh, there's no. There's nothing lost in transition. I did a thing, I made real progress. I can see it. It's there. And so I play video games all the time. Video games are the thing I retreat to because video games are closed systems that I don't have to decide what shape they are. I just get to behave within them. And when I do a thing and the number goes up. I know how to do it. I can do it again. I can get that same feeling of like I worked within the system and I optimized the system and the number went up, and thank God.

Mondo 25:47

Yeah. What's, what's so interesting about that is, man, how opposite we are in this. I, I gotta look up the actual statement that I got from last night. So, uh. In addition to being still walking is just part of my jam, right? And I feel like when I walk, I could find that silent space and like hear God, right? I went on a walk last night, it was probably like nine or 10, just 30 minute walk. It's kind of raining out and there's this moment where God just put on my heart, everything is resolved. And it was a statement that hit so hard that I put it in my notes, but. Kind of to your closed loop. Here's this game, and I can see my score go up and down. When I felt this thing, like everything is resolved, it was like a culmination of like, yeah, Mando, I asked you to do a whole bunch of stuff. You didn't know why you were doing it or who you were doing it for. Everything was resolved and I literally just like got on my knees and thank God in this moment last night, in the middle of the rain.

Nathan 26:49

Nope. Nope. I would be like, yo, what do you mean? I would have zero celebration in that moment. It'd be like everything is resolved and I'd be like, no, you come down here right now. You lay out the steps. I want to know what is resolved. I want to know how we got here. I wanna know what part I played in it. You can't. You can't do this to me. All right. Well those are the critical things we do to refresh our sanity. Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.