What is your Love Language? How do you ask for help?- One Second by How to be Second

Nathan and Mondo dig into the love languages that shape how they give and receive care—revealing why acts of service define them both, and how that plays out in their marriages, partnerships, and leadership styles. Together they explore how mismatched “languages” can make or break trust between firsts and seconds in command—and why understanding how someone feels loved might be the key to working, leading, and relating better.

After that they unpack the complicated dance of giving and receiving help—from the discomfort of asking for it to the frustration of being “helped” in all the wrong ways. Mondo reflects on the season when he had to depend on others for even the basics, and how that reshaped his empathy and boundaries. Nathan shares the sting of people offering fixes he never asked for, exploring how “help” can sometimes serve the helper more than the helped. Together, they wrestle with pride, humility, and the surprising ways God uses uncomfortable asks to grow trust, character, and connection.

If you want more like this, subscribe or find more on Howtobesecond.com

This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy.

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

Mondo 0:24

Oh man Nathan like today I'm so excited to have this conversation because this feeling that humans have when they want to or when they need to feel Gratified or gratitude or like be poured into right And so because we've heard of love languages like let's just stick with that theme And so for the audience if you have not read the book around love language like let me give you the baseline of it So there's five love languages defined in the book Actually I don't even know the author of that book I don't know if you know Nathan but the Five Love Languages are Words of affirmation Physical touch acts of service gift giving And what is the fifth one I'm trying to think of the ones that I said Words of affirmation acts of service gift giving physical touch

Nathan 1:17

Quality time

Mondo 1:18

time Bingo

Nathan 1:19

and the author is Gary Chapman.

Mondo 1:21

Got it Shout out to Gary Chapman so When I ask this question to people and then I say mine back some there's this like surprising like really Like that's your thing right So like I'm very curious as two people who are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to love language what is yours and how do they impact you

Nathan 1:46

It'll be funny to react to this because this is something I've dug into a lot in sort of like my journey of self and it has been really impactful throughout my entire, like my relationship with my wife and it, it's actually something that I have made a core part of matchmaking for how to be second and I can tell some stories around that. So for me, so I, I have an answer, I have a lot of answers and then I am curious how to ping pong this. So for me. Acts of service is mine. And one of the ways that love languages work as I understand it, is that it's kind of like a pie chart. Um, there's a little bit of like a priority and then a pie chart. So like acts of service takes up 80% of my pie chart, and then there's some relevance to the other ones. Like, I appreciate gifts, I appreciate words, but like, acts of service is so far and away that if I didn't get any of the other ones, that one would pretty much hold me down most of the time. Uh, Samantha is hilariously. Samantha is exactly the opposite. Samantha, my wife, is exactly the opposite of that. She needs words of affirmation. Like it, the big buy. And so it makes it easy for us to dismiss all of the ones in between. Like neither of us really cares that much about gifts. Like quality time is good, but like we've established a lot of ways to do that anyway. And so like, that's easy. But we can be like alone together really easily. But like words of affirmation for her, huge acts of service for me. Huge. And we are opposites. Acts of service for her. Eh, irrelevant words of affirmation for me, mostly irrelevant. And it's really weird because it really is like marrying someone where I speak English and they speak Spanish and like we're not bilingual. We're just desperately trying to figure it out over the course of our relationship.

Mondo 3:38

Yo let me hop in for a second because this

Nathan 3:40

Yep.

Mondo 3:41

real cause actually mine is the same as acts of service And I to your point 80 of the pie acts of service Yes and I struggle with other humans whose love language is words of affirmation one of the biggest reasons why is because Like my number one advocate growing up was my dad and like my dad acts of service and quality time right Like he was always present at everything I did And like he just always served like how can I help son How can I be there What can I do Like that was his jam But my dad rarely I mean I think the when I was going off to college was the one time I remember my dad saying I love you son Or like Like just pouring into me with words And it's not that he never said good job but it was always like work harder do better Like there's always room for growth you know And so words of affirmation something that was frequently said around me but if I heard it like once or twice a year like I was like oh I'm good for the year And so I struggle Because some humans who need words of affirmation I don't even have like a barometer to be like oh oh you needed me to say three things today Like I'm used to three things the whole year And so I'm curious like with you and Samantha is is there or was there a gap along the way where you really had to work that muscle to like meet your partner in a meaningful way

Nathan 5:10

Along the way. Took me yesterday, like, uh, lemme tell a couple of stories of this. Uh, what one, I, I think everybody knows this, or at least a decent amount of people who would listen to this do, but like. So you and I worked together at one point, right? And this plays into a whole other conversation that I would love to have at some point about the idea of opportunity creators and, uh,'cause I think you are one, and I haven't been one, but I want to be one. And that's a whole thing we can talk about. But this idea of love language is like, it makes very clear sense to me why, like the way that we move together, aside from the fact that it's just, you're just fun to be around and I like you, uh, is like. You do stuff, I do stuff that speaks to the other person. When I've had some first in commands where like our languages either were also the same or, uh, and, but we had different levels of sort of grace for about that. Or like our languages were really different and that caused the different languages without having the ability to talk about that is what has caused like dramatic rift. And so like an example for Samantha and I, we've just been talking about this again recently, we were having a disconnect. I wouldn't call it an argument, I would call it a disconnect. We were having a disconnect and we were trying to figure that out, and I was like. I understand that doing this thing is making you frustrated. So how do I do more of what is good and focus on doing more of what is good and don't focus on doing less of what is bad? And her response was, well, my, you know, like, this is something we very are familiar with. And her response was like, words of affirmation is my love language. You know, like, just do more words of affirmation. And I told her. I don't understand what you just said. Like that seems like the most obvious possible thing that you could, you know, you're just like, oh, it it, I, I feel the exact same if I said, well, acts of service. She would be like, I already am desperately trying

Mondo 7:05

Yeah

Nathan 7:06

to do that thing. And so like this was, I mean, this was like within the last few weeks we've been having this conversation where I literally looked at her. So I, we struggled with this, right? So I, I said that she said that we weren't having an argument, but we were definitely having this disconnect of like, how do we do this better and how do we focus on doing this better? And I finally came back to her and said, do you have. Do you have like an inner monologue of words, like in your brain, like when you're thinking, do you think in words? And she was like, well, yeah, of course. I have an inner monologue running a hundred percent of the time. And I was like, I don't ever, I don't hear words in my brain. It's not, it's literally not how my brain works. I think in like connections and patterns and feelings and I scenarios and I can play like whole movies in my head, but I don't talk, I don't have an inner monologue like that. Is literally, my brain doesn't process information in that way. And so a lot of the time, part of the reason this podcast is so fun is'cause I'm literally creating my talk track As I'm talking, I'm processing with language, a bunch of words and like a bunch of feelings and thoughts and whatever. Sometimes I've been called out for this. I say things two or three times in slightly different ways. I'm doing it right now. I'll repeat myself saying the exact same thing in slightly tweaked versions, and people are like, Nathan, you just keep saying the same thing. And I'm like, I know, but it's because I couldn't hear myself say it until I said it the first time. Like, I don't have words in my head. Literally, there are no words. And that sounds insane for a person who talks so much or writes so much or whatever, but it was one of the disconnects. And so I finally, I just looked at her and I was like, is it okay if I just process my feelings out loud at you? Because I think words of affirmation is like these prepackaged set of words. And I was like, I don't have them.

Mondo 9:01

Yeah Yeah

Nathan 9:03

It's so hard for me to give you words'cause I don't, I literally do not have them. I have to say the words. I've left her like little handwritten notes for a really long time. It's a practice that I started, I don't know, years ago. She probably has a whole shoebox full of these things. I try to give her like one every week or two. And this is a very difficult thing for me. Sometimes I'll write it on a separate sheet of paper like a couple of times, and then finally I'll make, I'll, I'll get something onto the actual note card. Simple, simple stuff. Thanks for doing this for me yesterday. This is so great. Right. I'm like, this is so hard because I have to, I have to do it. I have to iterate on that a few times to where I can get a clean thing to say. And so I'm like, if it's okay for me to just sit, talk at you and to like come up with a clean thing to say, can I do that? She was like, yeah, of course you can. And I was like, why? I didn't think that I had that ability, you know, like I had to get permission to say all this random shit.

Mondo 9:59

It's super fascinating to just hear you say that out loud First of all like all day every day I have a million talk tracks I have talk tracks about things that are present things that may happen in the future things just scenarios that I make up and I'm just like yo what is the narrative like If God just dropped a stranger in front of me right now that asked me the most ridiculous question like I'm going through that back and forth dialogue in my head because I just feel like that is what brings me a lot of joy and kind of that connective tissue that you're talking about of like how my brain works It is all in words So then to hear you say I do the same thing but I don't use the same foundational tool right Like you use systems you use other like connective tissue And so I'm just like yo that's super fascinating But it also highlights why this one second duo like it's it's needed it's necessary right I you just think about no matter what there is not a single person Unless

Nathan 10:55

No.

Mondo 10:56

Christ that like has both sides right Like and

Nathan 11:00

Yes.

Mondo 11:00

how important it is and how valuable it is for that one second or that partners partnership to have these type of conversations For a Nathan to be like bro I don't even think in words and for me to be like what In What do you think about like how like I I personally right now as you were saying it I'm sitting sitting there like is there literally like a hexagon and an octagon and like somehow you like visualize these shapes coming together and like this system and this like lucid

Nathan 11:33

Yes.

Mondo 11:34

at

Nathan 11:35

Yes.

Mondo 11:35

That's crazy Like I have

Nathan 11:38

Right.

Mondo 11:39

had a lucid chart in my brain any day of any year forever So is wild Okay

Nathan 11:47

Yes, uh, yes. That's actually how I think not just in flowcharts,'cause that's helpful, but yes, I don't have words. I don't have a monologue. I have feelings and intuitions and. Um, connectivity and scenarios and lots of pictures. I, I'm, I played movies in my head a lot, but there are no words. There's sound, but there's not words, if that makes any sense. I don't know what anybody's gonna say. I never know.

Mondo 12:19

so let me ask a question as a second who already have this picture complete but your first in command doesn't Has that one gotten you in trouble Did you have to learn to exercise patience Did you just say like here's the answer like get on my level Like what are some things that you had to learn over time whether it's with your one or even with like other employees or partners that you may be working with I just feel like because your mind works in a certain way a different level of there's something else you have to exercise that maybe I don't have to exercise

Nathan 12:56

Totally. Well, I want to turn the question back on you. So I'll say this, I'll give you a couple of examples and then I, I would ask you the same question and that is the answer is yes, and I would say that I did it really poorly prior, and having this framework has really helped. Part of why we've made it part of a key part of matchmaking is because we feel like it actually gives you a way to like understand where the other person is coming from, what they're trying to say, or the shape that they're trying to say those things in. So it's like, oh, I don't understand Spanish, but I know at least you're speaking Spanish and. It has gotten me in trouble because I'm very acts of service. I've seen this in a lot of first and second pairings. Lots of firsts are, or one ics, right? I wanna, I wanna stick to my own identity based language. Lots of one ics are a words of affirmation, or they have that really high up and they will tell their second in command. How awesome they are, how great a job they're doing, how, like they'll give them all of these affirmations

Mondo 13:53

they are

Nathan 13:54

they will consistently do different shit. They won't follow up on the execution. They won't like, recognize the actual work that is getting done. And so like the. The second, and I've been this person the second will keep grinding in their language. They'll keep doing and doing and doing and not talking. And the one I see will keep talking and talking and talking and not doing. And they're both trying to tell the other person that they care about them by doing the thing, by speaking their language louder and right, like, um, at each other.

Mondo 14:30

Yeah

Nathan 14:32

Yes. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's just whoosh, right? It's just someone screaming Spanish at you and then being like, why is this relationship falling apart? And it's that exact feeling. I had that with one of my friends and a, a first, a one I see that I think that I worked with for a long time. His name is Bill McElhaney. And. He was the lead pastor of our church. He led our band. He was a singer and a guitar player, like really good. Helped teach me how to like, play the drums. I'm a drummer for anybody who didn't know that and like, but he was one of those people and he was very much a words of affirmation, whatever, and like, not honestly that great at sort of like following Mr.

Mondo 15:10

Yeah Yeah Yeah

Nathan 15:12

There were several of us on the team that were very clearly seconds now that I have that language. We were a very much obviously acts of service type people except for one guy who's very clearly a words of affirmation guy. They were both words of affirmation people, and they had the best relationship in the entire building, and they always did. Throughout the entirety of time that I worked with them, which was like seven or eight years, the rest of us thought that Mack was like an incredible leader, and he had so many talents and we thought he was galvanizing and inspiring and we loved what his vision was and we were doing the thing and we all wanted to, but also he just drove us fucking insane and. That was the disconnect constantly was that we just kept doing and doing, but we never said things like, good job. We're proud of you. You do, so you know, you like, you're so inspiring to, and we never told them any of those things. We were just like, well, isn't it obvious we're doing the work

Mondo 15:57

Yeah

Nathan 15:58

and we, so we just kept doing the work harder.

Mondo 16:00

So okay so I got a this is a really important question from a OneIC first visionary type to A very balanced second in a season Let's just say Nathan if you or and I are working together and these things are happening between us what's the one thing that I can do to actually like step in the the right circle or step on the right line Like how do I approach you How do I at least start cause I imagine like a first in command is listening to this and they're like Dang is this me And so then if they're like yeah this is probably me the next question would be now what What am I supposed to do next Right And so like what is something that you just feel like is very simple and tangible for that when I see to do next once they're aware that this is

Nathan 16:47

Totally. The first thing I would say is your, your gut instinct is to be like, well, this is a professional relationship, and I would say to you, bullshit. Everything is people. Right. You bring you to everything you do.

Mondo 16:59

Yeah Yeah

Nathan 17:00

And so if you're like, it's just work, just get the work done. No. Fuck you. Like this is people, you're a person too. You asshole. Who is saying that right now? You're probably an acts of service person, like, right? So, uh, so the first thing I would say is the most important thing to do is like, know thyself. If you don't know what yours is. It's a really short book. There's like a three minute quiz, like figure it out and then ask them to do it. If you're in conflict with a person, if you're in whatever, if you're having this moment of disconnect, especially if you feel like you're working so hard at it, then like get them to do it too. So know yourself. And then have them do it. And then the only other thing I would add to that is anytime I've approached that, like I'm slapping the wrist of someone I. It doesn't matter that I'm doing something that is good, it comes off bad. So approach it. Approach it like you are invested in

Mondo 17:59

Yeah

Nathan 17:59

making the communication better, right? That you're like. Not like you have found an answer and that you need the other person to get on your level

Mondo 18:07

Yeah Yeah yeah

Nathan 18:09

that you're like, it feels like we're having a disconnect. At the end of the day, disconnect is always person and communication. And so like, how can we keep talking? But I, I need to understand your language better. Would, are you willing to do this with me? And if anytime I've approached it like that, even just very recently, um. That goes well, even if it takes work. Because at the end of the day, I mean like I've seen lots of, I've seen lots of first in commands who are like acts of service people and they're doing all of these favors. And their second in command is a gifts person. And so they're like, the second in command is like, when are you going to pay me more? And the first in command is like. Doing the stuff and espe, like if you have a, a second in command, who is a gifts person? They might even be giving you gifts, but they're like constantly going, I'm not doing well because you haven't given me a raise. And they may even start to do less because they're feeling uncared for, and the first in command is watching their second in command perform worse. Then they're less likely to give them a raise. It is a vicious cycle that this disconnect is the core of why first and second in commands end up in divorce.

Mondo 19:24

I feel like this is one of the most powerful conversations we will have a first in command and a second command to just step in and be like Yeah let's start here right Like we're having challenges We're having troubles What's the one episode we need to listen to for this pod I feel like it's gonna be this one and this session so this was good

Nathan 19:44

Cool. I do. Before we let this go, and I know this whole section is kind of running along, um, maybe, maybe our producer will edit it enough, but like, I don't wanna let it go before I turn it on you and say, can you give me an example from your life where either you have done this well or done this poorly or like, what is this calling up for you?

Mondo 20:02

Yeah I mean honestly I would I would double down on many of the things that you just said and when you think about that pie for me right If acts of service is 80 probably the biggest next piece of the pie is quality time And so I feel like between you and I one of our biggest assets is spending quality time outside of work we said early on like we're working together and we are friends and I want to get to know you as a human being and you wanna get to know me as a human being So to your point when we get to that intersection where it's like we're speaking past each other it's like Hey Nathan do you just want to go bowling Or like is something going on with and Samantha and the kids Or Armando Like are you okay Like and so there is just this care That developed through quality time And again to your point like everything is relationship Everything is relationship Because if we ever got to a point where like I walked in and I saw you and looked at your face and I'm like yo this looks like dread like or like you depressed today it is f the work today right Like let's go spend some quality time To make sure that like you are good as a person And so I just feel like one second has to spend that quality time and like again stamp of approval to you and the how to be second team when it comes to matchmaking like quality time is at the core the essence of like how do we bring two people together Because if they don't spend any quality time together you're just never going to know And uh Everything about what you're doing what we're doing when it comes to working together on matchmaking and bringing ones and seconds together I feel like it's built on that foundation of relationship

Nathan 21:55

Yep. A thousand percent. All right. I'm gonna honor that. I'm gonna leave it there and I'm gonna ask the next question, and that is, when you are getting, giving, accepting help, how do you deal with help? How do you deal with the idea of help in all of the, in all of its forms? What rises up in you when I ask that question?

Mondo 22:16

So to piggyback from last. Question, right? Acts of service is at my core, and so giving help like a service to another human is just at the core and essence of who I am. Like if I feel like somebody is stuck, I want to give my time through words though, like, let me say that I have definitely made a clear line that if somebody is like, I'm about to move a five bedroom house, do you want to help? No, I do not, and it's easy for me to say that. So one, I have a clear line on how I help because I want to make sure that the way that I help does not deplete me. That is important for me. Secondly, though. Accepting help in this season of life, I have gotten very comfortable with accepting help because God put me through a season where I had to ask for it frequently.

Nathan 23:18

Mm.

Mondo 23:19

like, let me color the lines a little bit. So if somebody's stepping into this conversation for the first time, I have lived a great life, middle class family, never struggled with anything, a lot of love, and because of that, I feel like God challenged me. To get to six figure lifestyle, feeling good about life, and ask me to surrender everything for, uh, indeterminate amount of time. And so doing that, going through that challenge, I had to ask for help so much from so many people, and it made me feel so uncomfortable. It's like musical chairs. And like sitting in these different seats, but my whole life, never having to sit in a seat where like asking for help was like a foundational seat that I had to sit in, and it created a level of empathy that I will never forget. Because of how hard it is. Like even to you Nathan, like over the past three years, I literally had to call Nathan and say, Hey man, like, like we hang out, we business together, but like as a human, like I need some help. Like actual, like fundamental bill paying help and like to call and even ask you that is so hard. Because it's like we've been known each other for like four years, but it's not like, oh man, I've been knowing Nathan since I've been five years old where it might be easier. Like you're my cousin, it's just this new relationship and I've exhausted everything else. And God's like, well, you have a second Who said he got your back no matter what? And I'm like, yeah, but. For this though, you know, and so like there's, there's this pause where it's just like I had to reflect and be like, God's always gonna give me what I need. God's always gonna surround me with the people that I need. And even if Nathan says no. That's for our relationship to strengthen. For either him to say no because he doesn't feel comfortable doing it, or no, because he doesn't have it or whatever. But I have to lean in and say the words and ask the question for our relationship to grow. For context. Nathan is an amazing human. And he was like, yeah man, how can I help give and has never asked for anything back. And I am extremely grateful for it, but it didn't have to go that way. And if it didn't, I then have to not take it personal. I have to be like, okay, well that's his line. Like the same way that I had a line like, I am not going to help you move a five bedroom house. His, your line may be like, financially, I am never going to support you in that way, and I have to be okay with that. And so when it comes to help, I am an extreme giver. I have fine lines for myself. And because of it, I recognize that if somebody else has a hard line on something, I have to respect that hard line. So like, I think that's my soapbox answer to that. But like, I'm, I'm very passionate about, about those words.

Nathan 26:20

Okay, so I

Mondo 26:21

Okay, so I.

Nathan 26:22

and just like shut it down and be, I like, I would be happy. And also I'm going to dig in because I have, frankly, I have some recent feelings on this one. Well, they're not recent, but they're recently again, so how do you, how do you personally deal with when you are saying. Stuff out loud when you're being real or raw and someone tries to solve it for you, but you were not asking for that.

Mondo 26:53

That's good. That's good because I imagine. That because I have this problem solving mentality, not, I imagine, lemme say that better. Historically, I've probably been that person, and so I got to a point in my just growth and development that when somebody says like, Mondo, I need to talk to you. I'm like. Are you asking me this question to be a listening ear, or do you want me to offer you a solution to the problem? And like, I'm very intentional to ask that because sometimes they just want a listening ear. Now if I call somebody and I say some things out loud that I can't solve. I'm actually at a point where I need some words, right? Like I'm just like, I've spent enough time by myself. I prayed enough. And so if I'm bringing it to another human, I'm literally asking God, please, through Nathan, say some words that's going to like spark something else so I can get closer to this solution. So I don't think I've ever been in a scenario that like really rises to the top where I've said something out loud and somebody overstepped in their help because I'm actually looking for something. But I do tell people, I even said this last week, cause somebody said like, Hey, I'm really good at discerning certain things when I feel like God has a word that I'm supposed to tell you. Mano. And I said, really? I said, well, here's what I need from you. It's almost, I can say this with like 99% certainty in my spiritual journey. If you come to me and you say, here are 10 words that just came from me, came to me from God. The last three words are the most important. The first three are the most important to me. Like what you emphasize and what you think I'm actually supposed to hear and what I'm supposed to move on is never almost the thing that I'm actually supposed to hear. Like it's more of like this subtle tone or this like odd nuance and like you're like, all right, God told me that. Uh, you know, when you were playing at the park next to the castle and then you tell like, this long story of what I was supposed to do and like, you're really emphasizing like this action. And I'm like, oh, the castle. Right? Like, like, okay, it makes sense. Thank you for putting the castle in my awareness and I'm good. And so like that's just. Like the best way that I can answer that. I don't take it personal when somebody's trying to help.'cause I know it's coming from a good place. Yes. And I was already good after you said Caso, but it sounds like there, there has been some moments where some humans have really overstepped and tried to solve your problems and it doesn't feel good. Is that what I'm receiving?

Nathan 29:37

Well, yes, of course. And like, and I think that I'm extra sensitive to that because I am an, I am an acts of service person, right? So when I am, do feel like I'm pretty good at both asking for and providing. In, in a tactical way. And even like, I've done a lot of work to get good at that in languages that are not natively mine. And I think what, what has happened to me recently is, and this is all very fascinating to me, is that like there are ways that I am actively asking for help and then there are ways that people are offering help. And I'm like, hang on, I didn't ask for help. You're offering it, you're trying, like you're being right or giving me a correction or saying you could jump in in that spot. So like, but you're not doing the thing I'm actively asking out loud. So you're not helping when I am asking the way that I am asking. You are trying to help for things that I am not asking for. Who is this help for?

Mondo 30:41

Yo, I, I'm laughing because the way that you're talking brought me back and please jump in, Nathan, but there's a season in life where you're like. There's not enough people baking the cake. Do you remember that season?

Nathan 30:55

Yeah.

Mondo 30:55

You're just like the,

Nathan 30:56

yes.

Mondo 30:57

the, yeah, the cake makers. And so what I'm hearing you say is like sometimes you're asking for somebody to step in and make the cake and they're like, well, I can go buy some icing. I can go get the container, I can go do all these things. But you're like, you're not doing the thing that I'm actually asking you for.

Nathan 31:14

Yes.

Mondo 31:15

Is that what I'm hearing?

Nathan 31:16

Yeah, totally. Or, or they like, I bet, and they won't now that they've said it, assuming they listened to this part. I bet there are people who, if I didn't say what I'm about to say, they would get in touch with us after this episode and they would listen to this bit and they would've listened to the bit that I just said, and they would email me and let me know ways that I could ask better, like they would solve a problem I do not have, because they like, once again, who is this help for? Right? Like I know you know. Keep it to your fucking self. Like I'm not asking for that help. Like if, if you had come to me and been like, Nathan, I need rent money, would you be willing to support me with dollars on rent? And I had come back to you and said, well, now I won't give you rent money and I won't give you a place to sleep. But i'm a pretty good marketer. So what I can do though is that I could set you up with a webinar and some messaging for how to ask for rent money better to other people. Man, fuck you.

Mondo 32:23

Oh man. Oh, that's good. That is good. Yeah. Uh, in recent memory, I have not dealt with that challenge, and I can see why that would make somebody, uh, quite furious and frustrated. Uh, that is funny.

Nathan 32:42

Here's what I,

Mondo 32:43

Huh.

Nathan 32:44

that I is really getting me about this, and

Mondo 32:48

Okay.

Nathan 32:49

I think these people are genuine. I, I think I am this person and I have been this person,

Mondo 32:53

Mm-hmm.

Nathan 32:54

like, definitely hear me say I smell my own, you know what I mean?

Mondo 32:58

Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan 32:59

um, I'm so sensitive because I'm so uncomfortable about the reality of who I am recognizing this behavior, and this is. So insulting to the person who has done the work that you were talking about earlier, like you unpacked how uncomfortable it was for you to ask for help in the first place, especially as someone who like loves giving and. The idea of you having done the work to get clear enough to make an ask and to overcome like the potential, like the shame, the whatever, the, like there's so many levels to being willing to make an ask in the first place, to genuinely actually ask for help, and then the person helping like sidelining that. Giving you what they, what agenda? They, they're just carrying out their own agenda on you. You just gave, they're effectively using your ask as an, as a permission to carry out their own agenda. And like I'm on the receiving end of that a decent amount. And I think anyone who asks for help is, and here's the other thing, in a community of people. I mean, I'm, I'm leading a community of people who are helpers. like part of our shtick. Is that like, oh, OneIC is,

Mondo 34:20

Oh, what?

Nathan 34:20

or whatever are out here and they're having the mess and we bring order to the chaos and we have all these stupid fucking phrases that we use to say, I'm gonna clean up all the Legos that you spilled on the floor. And like, that's the value that I bring. Is that you're a rocket booster and I am. The way that we harness that energy, and that's incredible and amazing, and you and I talk constantly about like how good that is and also when you have an identity of being a helper, it's almost like if you aren't being a helper, there's something that you're losing, even though nobody asked for that shit. And, and you suck at asking like if your identity is wrapped up in the helping and you're never asking. It's real obvious. And so like, I'm like, oh, so like you don't need anything ever and you won't do the thing I'm asking you to do. Which I got over my need for, you know, like, so

Mondo 35:18

Yeah.

Nathan 35:19

you said about what you said about like the person telling the entire story and you taking the one bit just resonated so intensely with me because I was like, right, you needed what you needed. And

Mondo 35:30

Yep.

Nathan 35:31

a five minute story that served their agenda.

Mondo 35:34

Facts. And they, knowing that they didn't do it maliciously. Like they're thinking that they're in service, and you're saying that like they think that they're in service. And that kind of goes to like how we all fall into our own blind spots thinking that we are doing right by others or to others. But the reality is we consistently step on the line. Right? And so there is something so true about what you're saying and. As you're telling this story, I'm just reflecting on myself and the value that I actually bring to others and reflecting. Now when like people ask me for help, and I'll just go to like our last interaction where you were just like, Hey, Mando, I got some words, help or like, give me some words back and. When you sent what you said some weeks back, I'm like, Nathan doesn't struggle with putting the Legos together. Right. So there's not a, there's not a, well, did you think about this? What? Well, I know he already thought about that. Like, don't, don't disrespect his intelligence. I was just like. Oh bro, like maybe you're just supposed to pause, right? Like, just, how about you just stop for a day or two? And so like, my strength is being able to find peace in silence and you know how to do that. And I was just like, well, let me offer something that maybe you haven't done yet. And so, um, that to me was a situation where. I think a person who is trying to help and they don't have the answer is hoping that this random thing that they say might be the thing that helps you break through, but maybe 90% of the time it doesn't. Like I had no idea of being like, yo, bro, why don't you just pause? Like it didn't make any sense, but you're just like, Hmm, it was what I needed. So like. I don't know. Help is just so interesting. It, I lemme just say this to like close my section of this. I believe that no matter what, as we navigate life, we're eventually going to have to ask for help. Yes. And I truly believe that if you continue to elevate. Your character or you hit that next level in life or whatever it is. Inevitably you're going to have to ask for help in an environment in which you dislike or disdain or you have hate for, or there's some type of relational challenge that you're like, I would never ask that person or that type of person, or I would never go into that situation and that never, never land that you build. That you've been saying for the last 20 years is the environment that you are going to have to tuck your tail in and go in and ask help and maybe even hear them say no. And now you feel like, dang, like if I wasn't an asshole for the last 20 years to these type of people, maybe I would have gotten the help. Or, which is how like love stories typically work. You go in. You ask those people or that type of person or that one person that you've hated forever, and they're like, of course, bro. Like I've always been here for you. You've just built this narrative in your head on why you don't like or love me, and I've always been willing to support. And so whoever you are, wherever you're at, I say like, go ask for help and go do it in an environment that is the most uncomfortable. And once you experience asking for help in that environment where you're so uncomfortable, I feel like God like literally unlocked something and it's like, finally you went and did a thing that you were terrified of because you didn't want to be turned down by the person who you've been shunning. From the beginning, so.

Nathan 39:24

Yep. Yep. I don't have a name in my head, but I do have feelings. I have feelings like there's going to be a name in my head soon. All right. Alright. All right. I'm gonna honor it and I'm gonna put it down right there.

Mondo 39:36

I was good, man. I love this episode.

Nathan 39:38

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.