What brings you energy? What is listening?- One Second by How to be Second

Mondo and Nathan explore what actually restores them when energy is gone. Mondo finds his energy in fiction and cinema. Nathan retreats into solitude, systems, and story-driven games where progress is measurable. They unpack imagination, control, listening, and why the characters we admire quietly shape how we live, surrender, and show up for each other.

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

0:24

My question for the day is what brings you energy? I'm gonna add a little context around that. The other day we talked about what drains your energy. I wanna know what brings you energy. And I want to put a little bit of a constraint because what I want to know is what do you retreat to when that cup is empty? Because I think that has a tendency to be a very different answer than the fluffy answer. People like to give. What brings you, what takes your energy? I wanna know what you retreat to. I gotta go get some energy. Oh, I've discovered I am now doing this thing again. Mm, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, like, so let me answer first, like squirrel. Like, okay, tangent. Got it. Uh, no. Like what brings me energy is kind of that like, oh, oh, oh. Like squirrel. Okay. Because that brings me energy just like stumbling upon. Random ideas, random whatever. And then now I'm just like curious or inspired, I would say like when I am empty, I retreat to fiction. Like I literally grew up. This is no exaggeration, and like somebody listening to this is gonna be like, what? Like I literally grew up thinking to myself, God, or universe at the time, if you ever give anyone the ability to fly, literally like Superman, just I jump up and I'm in the clouds. I would love for it to be me. Mm. And so because of that, there's just something about fiction that allows my imagination to expand beyond like what is. Practical or probable. And so, uh, I believe that like, you know, art is in many ways an expression of reality just embellished at a different level, right? And so like when I go watch fiction, I'm just like, yo, there is something in here that is going to inspire me or excite me or make me think like. What do I need to do to be more in line with that character in the story so then I can go participate in an adventure that is similar to that, right? And so in my years of rediscovering myself, I watch so much fiction. That somebody would just be like, dude. So you saying you just took a hiatus and you lived at the movie theater at home and in many ways it was, yes, because I was trying to like find myself in the story. Hmm. So I could recognize. Who or what I was supposed to become. And so, my retreat is leaning into fiction so I can find a cooler, more awesome version of myself. Okay. Do you, first of all, that's fascinating. Uh, as, as per typical. I resonate with what you are saying, but it is not at all what I was going to talk about and, and won't be my answer to this. And um, but I resonate deeply with what you're saying. Do you have a medium, do you have a prefer? Like you mentioned movies already, right? But like, I can think of lots of mediums of fiction, of art, of whatever. And so like what's your, what are your mediums? Yeah, like film. Uh, hall Hollywood film for sure. Okay.'cause they, they create the most, they're spending a hundred million dollars on a film. Right. Like, like, be so creative with your visuals that I'm like, yo, I would be interested in participating in that life. And so, yeah. I, I, I see myself in film. Wait, so let me, okay. So any, any other stuff like, is there like a secondary or like a. Uh, honestly, like not so much. It's fine to just be a cinephile. Like that's completely fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like not so much. I like, I might stumble upon like a TV show that I think is super cool, but I don't necessarily like go to that TV show to like retreat to find inspiration because what's happening in a nonfiction TV show, I'm typically like, yeah, I already seen that story play out so I don't get this new level or this. Like new whatever. The only, and you know this about me, the only TV show that I really felt like I was able to pull inspiration from was Ted Lasso and mm-hmm. If you've listened to this pod, I'm sure I've talked about it before, but there's something about Ted Lassos character that I was like, I don't see that character enough of just this. Mr. Rogers type guy that goes in and gets beat up verbally and still like stands on his beliefs, his morals, and he just knows that by the end of the story, whatever happened is supposed to happen. And like that is inspiring to me. I literally had someone say the other day we were talking about a mutual friend. And they were like, we can weather basically any storm unless, um, well, it's our friend Ryan. I was like, wow. I can just say Ryan, this isn't like a secret thing. Like, um, they were like, I can weather basically any storm as long as Ryan is Ryan. And they were like, but if you can imagine Ryan stressed out and upset, like. It's like Mr. Rogers not being Mr. Rogers. Mm. And that's just like, if you can't imagine Mr. Rogers being himself at the end of the story, something fundamental is messed up. Yeah. Yeah. And so you saying that and just now made me think of Ryan the other day and it's like, right, it doesn't matter. Kind of like the, the thing that we're hanging on is that there are characters somewhere. Yeah. That are who they are no matter what. For sure, and part of my discovery was like consistently reaching for the next character and the next character. And like I talk about Superman a lot, but then I was just like, oh, okay. But yo, captain America created a different connection in my journey probably over the last year because when I looked at that character, I was like. The difference between Cap and Superman is from birth. Superman had the strength. Yeah. However, captain America had the heart. He used the scrawny whatever. It was just like, oh well, like any human in the world could be this small, scrawny, no muscle, no just. Passerby person, but still just have the heart and the will to want to go do good, be good, and just be that character in the story. And so I resonated with that a lot. cause like Superman is an alien consistently trying to fit in with all his power. But like the little guy, the underdog that you know, is expressed as the captain, but really like, you know, he just got a shield and he got hurt. Right. Yeah. Like and so, uh, and super strength and Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. But he but he didn't, right? Yeah. And that's part of the story is that he didn't have those things and he still had him, he was him the whole time. He got given tools later in his, in his story, but he stayed him for sure. And I think that, plot. Mm-hmm. Is so consistent in fictional stories, which is like, if I give you great power, it is just going to like. Bring out the true you. Mm-hmm. Right? Like who actually are you? And so Captain America is just actually genuinely like the pure hearted character that's always going to try to do the right thing. And I just admire that and always like strive to be that version of myself and then like just to piggyback that, then eventually when I got done with all the characters that I was familiar with growing up, that's when the chosen introduced itself to me and I was like, mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Well, the way that you paint Jesus in this story, it is really, really dope. And I could never reach that version. Mm. And so I was just like, oh, like this is the final character in the story for me to aspire to.'cause one, I can't go around like touching, healing people through the power of God. And two, at the end of the story, I would choose not to be put on the cross and resurrected like, I don't want that. Ending, I guess. And so yeah, I've been, I've been around a lot of people who claim to be people of faith and their life. And hearing someone, you may be the first person in my whole life who just openly is like. I don't choose that. Like I'm not, I'm not interested in that. Like it's, it's so refreshing because the harsh reality for nine out of 10, 99 out of a hundred probably is, they also will not choose that. But almost nobody just has straight up stones to be like, not me, man. I don't wanna be that character. I do not want that ending. I do not. So how close can I get and not experience that? Right? And so I guess that's where I'm at. But, uh, I think that might, I have mad respect for that. Let me, let me throw it back at you. Like what brings you energy and then what do you retreat to?'cause again, I'm probably gonna say the same thing, like, oh man, Nathan, I get that. But nah, not me. I don't do it that way. I need to, I'm gonna answer. I have, I have like, uh, the beginning of an answer locked and loaded. Uh, and I need to push one more thing. This is just like a, this is just whatever, this isn't like a deep whatever question. This is just like a pop culture question. Do you feel like the, the shit you get to watch now is as good as it was? Like, do you have to be pickier now? Do you feel like it's better now like. Right. We have lived long enough lives now where Hollywood has undergone a few I would call transformations. And so I'm curious, like you've referenced several characters that I would consider relatively recent. Yeah. And so, or from at least this, the most recent sort of like set of transformations and. I'm like, well what about like when you were 10? Clearly those characters could have been different. Yeah. What do you feel like It's better now? This is just like a, I watch movies a lot. Question. I would just say, because I watch so much cinema that now is not necessarily better, but. The background context is filled out a little bit more. And when done well, I was like, oh, that's super cool. For example, the Loki series is so fire to me. It's so good. And I'm like, I'm like, I had no relationship with Loki up until that series, and I was like, this is amazing. So yeah. All right. Okay, cool. I like that answer by the way, is like, wow. I don't necessarily think it's better or worse, but it is definitely different. Yeah, it sounds like, do you have a, and I like too, do you have a strong opinion on that? Like either one? I definitely don't watch very many movies anymore. I have like four that I want to see right now and I actually just recently watched one. Samantha and I over the holidays, watched the Fantastic Four and like I had a lot of fun with that movie. I really enjoyed that movie, but it definitely was like fun. Right. And. I, I've watched the old fantastic point and the old fantastic point and like they, I think objectively sucked. They weren't good. And I watched this one and I was like, it's not good, quote unquote, like, it's not critic a good, but it's the most fun that I've had. Yeah. In that frame with these characters and yeah. Except the Silver Surfer. I've been a fan of the Silver Surfer the entire time. And same. That might be a connection. Yeah. You know, interesting. I think there's a certain something that has happened in cinema in the last 10 years. Netflix definitely plays a part like, I mean, it's a joke at this point if I actually used Netflix anymore, I don't, but if I did, I did spend more time surfing Netflix than I did watching Netflix, man, forget that. But it didn't take me a year to do that calculation. Took me two months to do that calculation, and then I was like, I can open YouTube and have something I'm interested in. In four minutes. Yeah. On my subscriptions page. I don't even need the algorithm I have to browse Netflix for, forget it. Absolutely not. So clearly something has happened both in cinema and in the way that we're consuming it, that I've just shifted on the flip side, and everybody knows who listens to this or me in general. I will plug dropout. Any chance I get, I put it in links in the email that I send out every week. I post it on LinkedIn like I champion this thing. I have a say hi, Intrepid heroes mug on my desk right here. I watch hours and hours and hours of live play tabletop RPG Now. Literally like big budget movies, a hundred million, no, these are six people sitting around telling a story and using that story with dice. Sometimes the end. That's it. And I am obsessed, so. Anyway, uh, yeah, it is, you know, ducktail, this is some personal storytelling, what we really like as human beings. All right. Uh, shout out High five to my Silver surfer partner in crime. Like, I, I don't even know why I always liked him. I didn't even know his backstory till like five years ago, but. Yeah. Yeah. Always, always seemed cool. I agree. Is a giant silver person rides a surfboard. Alright, cool. Um, uh, well, all right. I, I, I'll throw it back in there. Yeah, it is all good. Yeah. Because, uh, right now you feel energized, you know, like us having a good conversation. Uh, definitely brings me energy too, but, uh, yeah. What brings you energy and what do you retreat to? So, I retreat, first of all, I retreat to being alone. I am an introvert. I'm deeply introverted and I make the joke all the time'cause people are like, Nathan, you like, you talk so loud, you get on stages, you whatever. And I'm like, being socially awkward is not being introverted or extroverted. Like those two things are not the same. So I'm, I'm deeply introverted. When I wake up in the morning, I have five coins and every interaction I have throughout the day, I spend a coin. Sometimes I have to spend multiple. And so my responsibility with that has been choosing very carefully what I can afford and to the best of my ability, only spending my coins on things that, I find joy in. They take energy, but I receive joy. Yeah. So you and I doing this conver having this conversation is something I will spend a coin on. Also, I will receive joy, though I will be tired. Mm. So when I'm out of energy, I retreat first of all to being alone because that's where I. Restock energy is to be alone, but also, and not necessarily in my head. I might be talking out loud. I might be screaming in the car alone, but the alone part is so critical. Yeah. And then the second thing is I retreat to prebuilt systems that I get to make decisions inside of, but not about because so much of the way I navigate the world is making decisions in. Impossible to judge structures. Okay, I'm building structures and then what I just crave is the ability to put in some effort somewhere and watch a number reliably go up. And that is something that I, I have found. Mostly in video games. And so I play a lot of video games. I especially love long story-driven, story heavy, um, RPG or JRPG games. And I like, I retreat to those things because they're systems that are already created. Yes, I can optimize, I can make decisions inside of those systems, but at the end of the day, I know that I. I know that I'm progressing forward reliably and I know like what good is, what not good is like what I can, yeah. Everything that I do has an effect. And so like the first thing is I retreat to being alone. And the second thing is, I retreat someplace where I have reliable control over what I can do, and I can see measured movement. Hmm. I don't even mind if it's failure. I don't mind if I see measured failure, like, oh, my input's created, I died. Yeah. Okay. Then I ask. Yeah. Yeah. Would you say that if, if Nathan. Retreats and reads a book. Is that different than Nathan retreats and plays a game? Does a game accelerate giving you that energy back quicker or is there a difference? Definitely not so much. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um. Especially'cause I, like, I have fiction books I love to read and I would say my fiction is video games first, books second, and then movies would be like a distant for me. Right. Got it. Um, but when I read a book, I tend towards nonfiction. Yeah. I, I love fantasy fiction. I've always been a fantasy fiction, swords and magic over laser beams, like every single time a hundred percent of the time. Um. And I, you know, I try, uh, but yes, there's something about, a book is wonderful. I love story. I love characters. I get a lot out of them. I don't think I get as much as you out of them. I, there's something about the ability to interact and. To have some measure of, again, like my input creates an output. Yeah. Yeah. And I can do so reliably in a way that I, I just get to do that thing and know that I'm progressing something and there's a deep sense of satisfaction. Uh, and, and frankly just number go up. I mean, you and I talked about that, like. I was talking about that like calorie thing that I hacked a while back and I was just like, there's something just satisfying about just looking at this and being like number go down. Like Okay. Alright. Lemme ask a question.'cause you're married, is there like a key word like, babe, gotta go play the game. Like how do you communicate that you need to tap out? Oh, a thousand percent. Samantha and I have been together for 12 years and, um. She knows before I do. First of all, she like, fairly recently, she just looked at my calendar and she was like, Hey, two weeks, that's gonna be a problem. Hmm. A lot of that comes from being so open and communicative and honest with each other for so long, right? Mm-hmm. Um. And having run into it a couple of times, being like, let's not do that again. Yeah. Yeah. Which again, open and communicative. Uh, but yeah, a thousand percent, like if I say, and then I need to recover or I'm gonna need some, you know, like, I'm going downstairs'cause my, I have a big space in our, in our lower level. And so that's the language I'm going downstairs and you say it in a certain tone and it's just a knowing like, okay. I definitely know that that is a phrase that I can use and she understands. I also think she understands my behaviors at this point as well, or better than I do as a signal. She's, she's a very empathetic person. Yeah. Um, and so, but yes, we have devised a few of, like, if Nathan's doing this, but we've also put measures in place like to preempt a lot of those things. So. For the calendar for this year. We are already booking retreat centers for the entire year for both she and I where like we will go and be alone for a few days at a retreat center somewhere like silence and, yeah. Um, and, and so like. I, I would consider her more of like ambiverted, like, like she loves being with people and I also love being with people, but I feel like she can be with people a lot more, like shockingly more. And that sometimes brings her energy, whereas some people don't. And you know, it seems to be more, a little more dependent. I'm definitively on one side. I'm just a bag of extremes. I, Nathan, are you introverted, extroverted, somewhere in the middle. I'm introverted. Hard introvert. No question. Period. Alright, Nathan, are you like a fantasy guy or like a sci-fi guy or like a fantasy? Zero. Questions I've tried doesn't work and. Nathan, are you, uh, one leaning politically or the other leaning politically and that's like one of the only times I walk in and I'm like, eh, do you believe these Pacific things stuff can be two things. Two things can be true. Yeah. There's lots of nuance. All right. Well it sounds like, you know, you, your wife has this, uh, way of listening. And like knowing you, which is a great kind of transition question.'cause like, I wanna ask, what does it mean to listen for you? Like listening is a skill that many people don't have. And so what does it mean to listen? This is a very difficult question. You will laugh at this. I have more than once taken one of our podcast episodes or a recorded call that you and I have done or others. I have dropped it into a transcription thing, checked the word count of my words to their words, and put it in a pie chart to see if I talked too much. Okay. Yep. I don't even know how to. I never would, I think to do that for any reason whatsoever, nor do I even know what tool would I just be like, man, let me just make a pie chart in this era. I don't even, that's, that's wild. Okay, so even answering that question has become something that I'm trying to understand. So my, I have a reaction and my, my reaction is listening means to sit and that's it. And that's terrifying. What's funny about that is like yesterday my uncle sent me this video of. Uh, it was on YouTube, but it's like two people, two strangers just coming together and sitting in front of each other and just staring into the other's eyes for like two minutes. And I've done it in some professional developments before, but when I've done it. I see like how uncomfortable it is, right? And I know you don't have a problem with awkward silence, but like, even just listening to nothing happening makes a lot of people cringe. And so filling the silence with the words, uh, is something that I feel like I don't know isn't necessary at times. And like, just being in silence, I think strengthens the muscle to be able to listen. I completely agree with you. I do not necessarily think it is exclusively the absence of words, although silence has become very important, more important than I ever thought. Hmm. We hear a lot of people talk about. The difference between listening and hearing, and it seems like the popular dissection. I appreciate nuance. It seems like the popular nuance in this case is that to hear something is to have noise coming at you, and to listen to something means to attempt, understanding, embodiment. Response directly to the person. Not like I'm waiting my turn, but like we are having a moment together. Hmm. I feel like you are an incredible listener. I feel like my wife Samantha, is the best listener. She sets the bar of listening. Like if there's a 10 scale, she's 10. The questions that she asks are like similar. To questions that you ask. This is a, this is a known thing about you moving in circles that you and I are both familiar with, and that is people are like, when Mondo asks a question, it'll hit you like a truck. Like you'll just, and it'll somehow, you'll realize in that moment that you've been thinking about it in a way that you didn't even realize was small. Mm. And like to me, that stands out as like. Samantha doesn't have that many words. She often will relate that What? She's listening to you by asking a question. It'll pierce you right in the heart. Yeah. You do the same thing. Yeah. I mean, appreciated her earlier. I appreciated her earlier, not even knowing that she was listening to our conversation and she was like, this is what I heard, and I was like. You literally just said 10 words back and I was like, thank you. That was really good. Right. You and I were having a full conversation, you know, like doing our best, right? Yeah. Like with good intentions. She walks in, she's like, B line for like, yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. That person, I feel like that person in general is. Just necessary in relationships if they truly are balanced in who they are. Right? Like, like there's so much conflict or dissonance or disagreement happening in the world, and I'm right and nope, I'm right. And, and that just goes back and forth and, and when somebody steps in and it's just like, this is what I hear. Is this true? And then both of them are like, yeah, that is, and like how much that like kind of just cuts through the noise. And then people are able to like now find that common ground and step forward together holding hands and be like, all right, now let's, let's start a new dialogue now that we have this baseline on where we can anchor together and then like finish the story. And so, yeah, listening is just so important and just human experience. I have this, I have this question about listening for you. How often. So I want to, I wanna translate this not just to silence, but also to behavior. Um,'cause listening means to something, the universe, God, whatever you word you use for it. Um. Mano and I both use God as our word. We have friends who say the universe. We have other friends who are like, nothing. I listen to nothing and I'm like, look, man, really feels like we're all having a very similar conversation. So fine. Whatever word you need to put here. We're listening to something, uh, maybe yourself. Mm-hmm. How do you feel about the idea that one of the behaviors of listening is not just response, but the, the idea of going, Hey, I'm not sure I'm understanding. I'm willing to listen with another party like you and I just mentioned, we didn't even realize Samantha was like near us in, in earshot. Yeah. And. The value of having this third party walk in and be like, so I'm hearing both. I'm listening to both of you. Boom. How do you feel about the idea of listening sometimes is being willing to say, we need a translator. I love the idea of. A translator. Yes. And I struggle with bringing in the balance translator that's going to be able to actually serve the both of us. So to your point, like I don't necessarily have access to Samantha to come in and mediate a conversation, nor. I'm trying to think off the top. Maybe my dad, not maybe my dad. My dad is probably the only other human who I would trust to step in. To help navigate a real serious conversation. And I know that like they are coming from just an objective, healthy, just clear stance. Not being like, I gotta pick with my son, or I gotta pick with this other person. And they're just confident in saying, this is what I heard. So what now? What? And this is just saying like somebody that's just in arm's reach that I can always be like, no matter what the situation is, like here's just a person just in my quill. Uh, like, like there are other people in my life that I'm just like, oh, I trust that person. Like, let's have a conversation. But to call and be like, Hey, I'm having a disagreement. Can you step in and participate in this? I just don't have a lot of people that I feel like I would call. To lean on for that. Like I lean on my friends for a lot of things, but I, I do think that I'm like, maybe it's, maybe it's selfish, right? Like maybe I believe in my ability to solve problems so much that like I don't call a third party in, which may be something that I need to actually grow in right now, that I'm like talking through this in the moment. Uh, let me, let me throw that back at you'cause like. That was actually a question, and I'm like, I don't, I can't think of the last time that I did that, hence why when Samantha stepped in and offered that context, I was like, that hasn't happened to me in a long time. Thank you for that. So, so do you do that frequently? Do you, do you bring a third party in to, to help mediate? I would not have thought of this a few years ago. So Samantha has, um, she, she's gonna, she's gonna listen to this later and be like, what happened? Uh, not only do I have this relationship with this person, but also Samantha has specifically been through training, right? She's a spiritual director, and so like being trained to listen without. Without judgment, without advice. Right. She's not a coach, which is one of the critical, she and I have talked about this line before of like if all of this then is a thing you don't say if you're a spiritual director, you go, so all of this. And that's it, right? Yeah. Right, right. But a but a, a coach is supposed to be someone who goes, if all of this then And by win, right? Yeah. That is good. That is good coaching. So I wouldn't have had language for this. I would not have even necessarily thought about it except for one that, training in that, pushing into that. The other thing is, even my work with first and seconds, and that is a conversation you and I were having very recently, and like a metaphor that I've been using a lot lately is like this idea of dancing together and like a first and second, their relationship is often like a dance. And we know what good dancing and bad dancing looks like, right? And in a, in a dance, in a healthy dance, people might know some steps, but a lot of them are like listening to the music in a certain way. They're hearing that they're flowing in, that they're whatever. At the end of the day though, there's value in growing together, but often you need a dance coach. And a dance coach is not necessarily supposed to like take the place of. Maybe they'll show you a step or two or whatever, but at the end of the day, their job is not, I am one of the dancers. Their job is you two are dancing together. And so let me speak into that because I am on the outside and you're on the inside. I've navigated this professionally, not just in that work, but also in like as a professional person who installs operating models or helps seconds in person in commands navigate. Like, how does my organization actually work? What are the agreements in it? Um. And that's this idea of like, if you are trying to do that just alone, I, I talk about the EOS system sometimes'cause I'm familiar with it. And some people try to self implement E-O-S-E-O-S anchored to this idea of implementers. And there's another role within this system called an integrator. And the integrator's effectively supposed to be the second in command. Doesn't always work out like that, but it, that's, that's how it's supposed to work. Yeah. Uh. There's that third party, that third role sort of the mediator, the installer, the facilitator, the whatever. And people often because of money reasons often, um, go, well, we're not gonna get the third party person. We're just gonna do this ourselves. And I'm like, there's something fundamental that you're missing and that is this unimpeded third person. The other thing is. When you only have two people who are trying, even if they're trying to find common ground to the best of their ability, if one person says something really powerful, even if it is good and powerful, and the other person is deeply, genuinely listening, so this is all best case scenario no matter what. One of those two people said something and the other person is agreeing to that thing. That person said it always, there's some touch of like, that person made the decision for us too. Yeah, yeah. Rather than everybody gets to put all their stuff on the table and the third party person got to facilitate you. There's like an almost. Inevitable animosity as if there's like an authority in the room rather than you both being on the same team playing against your facilitator. Mm. And so like when Samantha walked in, one of the really funny things that happened. I don't, I don't know if you felt this way, but I felt this way immediately is that it had gone between you and I trying to really, genuinely trying to find alignment in a conversation and but against each other. Like we were playing ping pong, right? Yeah, yeah. Suddenly we were both on the same team playing ping pong against what this other person said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And our listening ability to each other increased. Multiples. Yeah. Because we were on the same team finally. We weren't talking against each other, even though we were doing the best, we were suddenly like, oh, let's both understand that thing. Yeah. Together and figure that out. And so anyway, I just like, uh, no, I think that's how I understand that. I think that's really, that was a great explanation. Yes. And I would say that. It's the seat that I have been finding myself in more of like, like being that third party and like this is'cause I go all in on the character of who I am, right? So now it's hard for me to receive words and listen. Through my mind as the filter. Like I listen through my heart. It's like I've, I've like had to be reconditioned to be like, oh, okay. Like I hear what was said and I understand the objective logically, but to me the goal is what words do I say out loud that would inspire. One or both of these parties to respond in a more loving outcome for both of them. Right? Like, like how do I extract love out of the room? Because I don't know, like for me, like getting, we talk about getting it right and being right, and I, and I know we've used that like a lot. But because the Bible is, has been new to me, I've been reading like, oh, like the words written in the gospel is the truth. Like not right or wrong, but it's like you live this heavenly experience if you live by these words or if you embody these characteristics. And so if that's the truth. Are either one of the humans in the room saying something that is true or are both coming at a situation that is so far from the truth that like they're both wrong. Not both. I'm using the wrong words. You're both saying something that's not true. If I'm using the baseline of truth being something that's written in scripture, and so I like lo in words that I'm just like, oh, okay. Like. What would Jesus do? Kind of like, yeah, yeah. Like, like in this, in this moment, like, is this a surrender moment for somebody? And I, I would encourage or say something that I'm just like, whoa, God, what do you want me to say out loud? That gives each party the opportunity to. Be selfless and surrender. Mm. So I get what you were saying where you're like, yo, somebody is then going to own the decision more than the other person. And I'm like, yeah, but does the blessing actually go to the person who actively chose to surrender and say like, all right, I'm gonna give it to you this time. Like, like, do they get more spiritually out of it? Do they feel more fulfilled? I. At the end of the story, I don't know, but like, because I've surrendered so much over the last few years, I'm like, I feel pretty fulfilled. And a lot of it came because like I surrendered needing to be right or get it right. It's just to be a steward in the middle to help other people surrender more stuff too. So I was kinda long-winded, but like mano, what does it mean to listen? I'm just like, I've just been trying to listen from my heart and say some things that hopefully. Inspires somebody else to be more pure hearted in their approach. Rather it's more Jesus like or Superman like, or Captain America like, or I don't know Cinderella like, but it's just like, yo, like, like be the genuine, pure hearted person. And oftentimes that person does not quote unquote win the match, but like. That's taking an L in that moment is their expression of being on the cross. Right. Like, like, all right. Yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll take this l like, I'll, I'll take it. So, yeah. All right. Well I think I'm gonna honor the conversation today and put it down right there. Peace.

Nathan 37:36

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.