How do you view money? What is uniquely yours?- One Second by How to be Second

Nathan and Mondo go head-to-head on money and what about their identities is uniquely theirs to own.

Nathan breaks down why money is the “blood” of a business—non-negotiable, life-giving, and dangerous to ignore. Mondo counters with his perspective, that money is a medium, not the mission. He’d rather make the bold bet and live with the story than play it safe and regret it later.

Then the conversation turns inward. What’s uniquely Nathan? Radical self-definition and the courage to stop redrawing his shape for every room. What’s uniquely Mondo? Surrender as a strategy and the belief that sometimes the winning move is putting the car in reverse and trusting a hidden path will open.

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

Mondo 0:24

Yo, Nathan, I'm glad we got a session again, and it's been a while since I have leaned into business, you know, like business influences the world. So I want to ask you a business question. So for you as a second in command, right? Like what's your understanding of money within a business and how much control do you need? Because I imagine it's different than the amount of control I feel like I need. So like, please cover the lines for me.

Nathan 0:57

Okay, is a fun one. Disclaimer, nothing I am about to say is if we need to get an attorney involved or whatever. no investment advice. I care deeply about money. I've been talking about money for a long time. In a lot of different ways. used to have a talk that I called my four pillar talk. This would've been, uh, 15 years ago. Of the pillars was finances. And one of the things I said in the four pillars was finances are like blood. You. Don't pay attention usually to the health of your blood until it is bad. That is when you pay attention when it's in crisis. As long as it's pumping through your body. And as long as you're waking up every day and functioning you don't pay a lot of attention to it. When it goes bad, it'll kill you almost immediately if it goes bad. Right? If you losing enough of it fast enough like you are done, that's it. And so it's something that. Is a critical component. It's a non-negotiable. You literally will not be alive without it. And, it's also one of the easiest things that we have in our entire bodies to not pay any attention to. And so that's how I talk about money in a business. So I'm like, it's this, it's this non-negotiable. The, it's like the, the foundation of the thing, right? I have served as a fractional CFO or accountant or whatever, almost my entire career by proxy of how deeply I dive into the concept of money and how. Frank and open. I am about numbers with other people, so I often find myself even in conversations with accountants and CPAs and tax preparers and whatever. I find myself leading that conversation a shocking amount of the time, because I care about my blood. Like,

Mondo 2:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan 2:47

and so want to know, 'cause I'm like, wait, it's the thing that allows me to do everything else. Like, if it's not going well, the rest of my body is not gonna function AKA, my business. I like to have a lot of control over this thing. I like to have it as transparent as possible. I like to have a lot of control over it, even when it is not my business. I'm, you know, I'm a second in command and I actually had a saying, in conversation with a first in command that I had, uh, which was IYFM, it's your fucking money. And so, like I was the reason we understood the concept of how we were navigating the money, but at the end of the day, the decision was theirs. 'cause IAFM right. I'm happy to live in that space, but the amount of like knowledge and management we have to have around money is like, I need to have it down to the expense detail level. I want to know what all of our subscriptions are and I want to know when they were renew. It's a $12 million company. I'm making that fucking spreadsheet like. I, I need, I need the tactile all the way down to the bottom. Last thought here before I, because I'm just waxing poetic about how important this is. the critical question that I've learned to ask to kick off that entire conversation about like how deep my claws need to go into this area that I lead with the question like, do you know your margin targets? And the answer is nobody fucking knows what their margin targets are. And I'm like, well then do you have high blood pressure? Do you have low? You know, I'm like, oh, what's your, what's your target blood pressure? And they're like, what?

Mondo 4:17

So let me ask then, let's just say you are a second in command coming in, or someone who has to have their hand on the money or have control over that, but you're new to the team. This person whose company it is, it's been their baby. They've been rocking and rolling for the last 12 years. How do you bridge the gap to help them trust you to have more control over their money? I feel like there, there's some type of bridge that needs to be crossed or some hugs or some tough times, and I don't even know if I'm asking the question the right way, but like. Because you are so in the weeds and such an amazing tactician when it comes to money. I want to have confidence to withhold my reins and give it to you. And so are there some strategies in which you've deployed to do that? Or do you just ask questions where they're like, I have no idea and since I have no idea, I might as well just give you control. 'cause I don't even know what you're asking.

Nathan 5:16

It really is that last thing you just said, right? Like I've learned, so part of the reason I lead with that question of like, do you know your margin targets? So often the answer is no at, at shockingly large companies. I mean, I recently asked this of a multi-hundred million dollar company and I was like, what are your margin targets? What. And I was like, I even gave them right a decent amount of like leeway. which is, I was like, Hey, I understand that you probably have some sort of like a basket mix of like multiple margin target sets where you're like some loss leaders and some, you know, like profit leaders and some whatever. And so like of course there's going to be a variable, like a mixed basket that you're putting together, a diff a product margin mix target and then like whatever. But like overall. What's your target as a company? What are you trying to generate as a company? And they were, I think first of all, they couldn't answer the question, but I, I, I sort of like displayed even in like the trying to give space that I was thinking about it at a deeper level than in the room.

Mondo 6:15

as you were just giving the example, my eyes were glossing over and so I, I would be like, uh, unsure, but what's step one to discover our margin targets. Yeah. Okay. I.

Nathan 6:28

And so usually I have found if I lead with a high enough level question, and I, I need to have some understanding of the definition of it, how would I actually get that thing? 'cause inevitably, if the answer is we don't know, or somebody gets defensive and they're like, well. They try to answer the question or they feel confident that they know, or they're talking to a peer. Like if you don't actually know what you're talking about, then you're gonna be in the shit immediately.

Mondo 6:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan 6:55

Like, if you don't have a very concrete understanding of the word strategy that you navigate a definition on, don't go ask someone what their strategy is and then get caught out from not knowing what the, the definition. But lead with the big question. Lead with the what you get. Question, what are you trying to get and do you understand this thing and why it matters? And then I, I've pretty much discovered if you lead with those questions, the person who has been in charge the whole time. Is like, oh, I'm talking to someone who's a peer, but also they're willing to do the technical shit that I don't enjoy doing so I can trust them. 'cause they think the way I'm thinking. They understand what matters to me, and they're willing to do the deeper work, which means I don't have to. So most of the time I've found that when leaders who hold tight to their finances, it's because they don't feel like the other people. Hear about the same things they do, and I actually find that pretty commonly between first and second in commands that second in command is thinking about a different set of trying to optimize than the first in command is thinking about. And so that, that's how I do it. And I'm curious from your perspective then, just said what I would normally do. How would you go about this? How do you respond to this and what would allow you to like feel confident or what is normally like, do you dig into, and how much control do you need? Like, let me hand this back to you for a second.

Mondo 8:18

I would easily say that, money is not my love language, not meaning that I don't enjoy it or like it meaning, I treat it like a. Disposable piece of paper. And so how I manage it in business and in life, is typically like a gun slinging western, like pew, pew, pew, you know? I mean, I could think back to when you and I were working, there were some practices that I was just like, yo. This person is on a squad, I'm just gonna pay them up front and have faith and trust that they're gonna go deliver. And then like was squashed by that strategy and have had people disappear. And I'm just like, dang, that's whack. I assume most people operate on high integrity, but like life happens or whatever, like I'm not shaming them or anything. But you then would be like, Hey man, uh, there's a better strategy to. Pay your contractors or distribute this capital. And so how I think through those things is different than how you would think through those things. And if you're like, mano, for me to feel safe in this second seat, I need to have control over the distribution and how we do it. would say cool man. Like no big deal. One of the questions though I would have is how would. How do we navigate as a a one second dynamic when I feel inspired to make a big bet, Like I would want autonomy and understanding on that fine line. I imagine you might be like. let's discern. Big bet, right? And you, we might be like, all right, well if you're gonna invest a hundred k, like that's a big bet, but like 25, whatever. Like, that's negligible. And so, that's what naturally hit me. Like, I don't mind giving other humans, autonomy over their vertical to like maximize their gifts. being one of those, and so I just need to know when I can say 100%. We need to go that way, and as long as that's clear, I'm good.

Nathan 10:18

I'm wondering how much that has to do with, you said like, this isn't your, this is not like the definition of success to you, right? Like money is a means to an end. It's almost transient for you. It's not that big a deal. And I think, I think in a lot of ways, I feel very similarly where I'm like, money is just a medium that we're using to get other stuff. Like, I don't need money. I need to pay my mortgage, but I don't even like the, house is the thing that I want. So if somebody showed up at my door and they were like, Hey, I'll give you a house. I would be like, oh. So we're just circumventing the entire system where we have to navigate, like dollars and the value and the the BS of that. Right Now there are obviously healthy and unhealthy ways you can do that, but i've always thought this is just a medium of exchange to get to other stuff. It just eases negotiation and transaction, but it's not actually a means in and of itself. If you feel similarly, maybe not all the words that I would just use, like,

Mondo 11:16

Yeah. I also, I'll, I'll add onto that.

Nathan 11:18

Yeah, yeah.

Mondo 11:19

Sorry.

Nathan 11:19

No, go for it.

Mondo 11:20

One thing, this is just a very like abstract belief. I'm not telling anybody else to believe this. This is just an agreement that I've made for myself. I think of a lot through the lens of an artist and very specifically like a soulful artist that can like. Share some words that like really penetrate your heart and like move you to do something that you didn't expect yourself to do. I feel like some of the best music, and this isn't across the board, but a lot of the best music came from artists. Like they blew up, before they had all the money. And there's something about my relationship with money where I'm like, I still want to like, to your point, live at this. Level where like I still have connection to the middle class man or the middle class woman. And if I spent all my time maximizing profit and money and focusing on that thing, not saying that that's wrong, but like if, if I learned the language of money, I feel like I am then pulled away from, let's just say the language of the heart. Both are necessary, But like. want to be the person who can speak to somebody's heart, because I've spent so much time trying to play those heartstrings where Nathan is like, oh bro, like I love that you love to do that. And I'll make sure that the foundation, this thing that we're building, you'll always be able to stand on top of it and play the violin because I'm gonna focus on this money. And so like, both things are true and that's how the duo works together or can work together. That's just how my mind works.

Nathan 12:50

A thousand percent. So let me, let me split two ideas here. I love that you just said the language of money, right? So I've referred to it a whole bunch as like the blood of your thing and also. I love to say that LA that money talks, right, the language of money. So like if you know how to read p and l, if you know how to read a balance statement, if you know how to read like all of these like financial documents, right? you actually speak a language. That a lot of people don't speak and money talks, so one of the things that I learned really early on is that a profit and loss statement, a lot of people try to get this stuff correct. That's bullshit. There is no correct, like all of these documents tell a story and you are in charge of that story. If you speak the language. And that's crazy for a lot of people to hear. 'cause so many people are trying to get it quote unquote right. And I'm like, right is often what we decide and that's really uncomfortable. And they're like, aren't there laws and regulations? And I'm like, yes there are. And when you know what they are, get to speak a language around them, like

Mondo 13:58

Which is, which is so, so like what you just said, right? Is like. The, the nuance of what I'm saying, like if I'm speaking to somebody's heart, I'm like, yo, I know what you're thinking. Let me speak around it because I know the language of your heart and you're just like, oh, the same thing is true with money I can't even comprehend that. 'cause I'm like, well, these are numbers. And so how are you able to like circumvent this number and tell a different story? And you're like, it's possible. Uh, you just have to know the language.

Nathan 14:26

that's exactly right. And, and. The same way that when you're sitting with a person and like, they might be saying words out loud, but you can feel their discomfort, you can feel their excitement, you can feel their their, their emotions are coming off of them. Sometimes like they would be surprised watching themselves back. Right?

Mondo 14:48

Yeah.

Nathan 14:49

You can feel that I have the exact same feeling when I start reading financial documents. When I start looking at transactions, I can actually tell you about yourself

Mondo 15:00

Hmm.

Nathan 15:01

I mean, I remember the very first time that I looked at a guy and was like, your business is suffering 'cause you're addicted to Taco Bell. And he was like, what? And I was like, you stress eat Taco Bell? I can just, he was like, how did you know that about me? And I was like, well, looking at your transactions and I'm just noticing that about a week. I just, I'm a pattern watcher. So a seven days ish before, every time you get a big check from a client, your Taco Bell. Amount increases by like four x. So you're just freaking the out about getting paid. And to Taco Bell like twice a day. that's insane. I, you're right. I'm thinking about it now. But he would never have told me that. Right. That's just a micro example of like a little solopreneur guy who I was working with. He was like, why don't I have more money? And I was like, well. Uh, 'cause you stress eat Taco Bell, but like, like, that when you speak the language of money, the money will actually tell you a story that no one else is capable of telling you. Nobody would wanna recognize that behavior in themselves.

Mondo 16:07

Yep. Yeah. But there, that trend. That trend speaks. Yep.

Nathan 16:09

yeah, the Let me, I wanna touch on one other idea here. this story. From, and this kind of goes back to the IYFM thing. I remember this story that I heard about Amazon and Jeff Bezos was in a room, with like his top level leaders, right? They were kind of talking about, different decisions they could make, different bets they could take. And it was like fairly substantial bets. And Jeff was kind of poking in like, maybe we wanna do this, maybe we wanna do that. And his CFO at the time. I don't know what the actual title was, but effectively, CFO head of Finance something or other at the time was kind of being like, well, hey, uh, I don't know if we can do that. I don't, you know, like really hedging. And finally got, Jeff got a little annoyed at this person. Was basically like. If I want to do this, I can, I can do that. And that person's like, my job is to tell you how much money is in the bank, right? Like one guy was playing the, I'm gonna go do the thing. And the other guy was playing like the, it's my job to help us understand the reality of it. then Jeff kind of like apparently got snappy and was like, well, why don't you tell me exactly how much money is in the bank then, because maybe I want to go spend it all right now. And at the time he was the sole owner of the company. So like. If he had wanted to do that, he could have done that. And, and so a question to you is like, is there ever a point that you're like, well, I'm gonna release you to make these decisions. Sure. And I feel confident or comfortable or whatever, but do you have that sense in you no matter what? That's kind of like you can give me better strategies, but at the end of the day, it's my fucking money.

Mondo 17:43

The end of the day, it's my legacy, I would say. I would be disheartened if. At the end of my story, I look back and I was like, man, back in 2020, in my heart I felt like I should have made this big bet and I didn't because X, Y, Z, not about the money. It's about being able to look back and be like, did I not make this choice out of fear? so that has nothing to do with the money, like whatever. But I, I need to be able to explore. Part of the journey, part of this, a adventure. 'cause I'm like, nobody's going there. And if I'm like, if nobody's going there and for some reason my heart keeps getting pulled that way, have to go in that direction even if it's just for a day. Right. I do believe that there is something about, and this kind of goes to like, know, the, the, the biblical story of Abraham like, Go up on the mountain and you have to surrender your son's life, right? He's like, I'm willing to go do this thing. I don't want to do this thing, but I gotta go in this direction. And God's like, ah, psych, you didn't actually have to do that. And so me sometimes being like, I don't know why, but we have to go in this direction. And Nathan, you might be like, bro, we don't have $5 million to go in that direction. I'm just like. We just have to go that way. And you're like, all right. And maybe just going that direction for one day, it opens up the door of something else to be like psych. You can pivot back. And so I just have to operate from this platform of faith to just go in a direction, even if it's just temporary. Ask for the squad to be like, please just follow me and know that I have our best interests at heart and this might not even be coming from me. We're just supposed to go this way for some reason. So.

Nathan 19:25

Um, yep. We are definitely different. And that is so good. You just reminded me of this parable, right? The parable of the talents where the master has three people who work for him. He's like, I have to go on on this journey. You're gonna be in charge of my finances and here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna leave, their talents in the story. I'm gonna leave five talents to you, person one, manager one, and to the second manager, I'm gonna leave two talents and then to the third manager, I'm gonna leave one talent. And so like, you guys are in charge, and then I'm gonna go on this journey. And while he's on the journey. The person who got trusted with five goes and invests, it five more and has the, has that right when they, when the person comes back, person who gets two does the exact same thing. They go and invest their two, so it's a less, but they also get a return. The person who has one buries it and then. The master comes back after their trip and they talk to the person with five, and the person with five is like, I invested it and now here is your return. And then the person with two is like, I invested mine also and it's less, but I also invested it and got a return and the person with one goes and digs it up outta the ground and is like, I was, I kept your one. And the master is like, I wish you had lost the one go away. I can't trust you with one. Like if all you're going to do is try to keep it safe, you're making a mistake. give this thing to you to stay safe. I gave this thing to you to invest and so like you are not a good steward. Like that has stuck with me for so long in my life. 'cause my natural tendency would be also to bury the talent and to come back and be like, I kept it level for you. it safe and steady. And you're yo, I didn't give this to you to stay where at? I gave it to you to bet on something. Right? Like,

Mondo 21:15

yeah. Bet on

Nathan 21:16

and, so that, me more tolerance to trust you for big bets.

Mondo 21:19

maybe, but I, I mean, again, like I, I believe because we both. Have spent our own division of time, like reading these stories or these parables or whatever. That's the common language. So there may become a moment where I'm just like, yo, Nathan, like is this a talents moment? And then you might be like, Hmm, And then like we go in that direction as opposed to me just saying bro, we gotta do this thing. Right? Because we have that common language, I feel like now I have. I have the words to meet you there. And also I actually get to surrender certain decisions in a way that I make ridiculous bets. And there have been plenty of times where my ridiculous bets were not the right ridiculous bets. However, now God's like, we are, the believers in Christ are all part of one body. And so if you go say something a certain way to Nathan, if it's right. He's going to fill it too. Right? So if I go say like, yo, Nathan, here's my idea, and this feels like a talend's moment. Do you feel like that could possibly be that too? if you're like, absolutely not, I'd be like, okay. But then maybe is good enough for me to be like, oh, okay, well like as, as long as it's a maybe like let's go. Uh, so nah, that was good.

Nathan 22:38

Excellent. Okay, well I will let this here and I'm actually gonna turn us to a different question. This is a little more, um. Not so grounded in Right? Like just a, oh, and then do you do, do you print p and l statements? How often do you review them? Weekly or monthly? Uh,

Mondo 22:55

Yeah.

Nathan 22:56

monthly is the answer. Those are lagging indicators. You don't need to review your p and l weekly. That's a stupid thing. Uh, ask I feel strongly about it.

Mondo 23:03

to say like the way you had to like go back and be like, let me correct this. And also be like, but still, uh, is, is very Nathan.

Nathan 23:10

Uh, okay.

Mondo 23:11

I.

Nathan 23:11

My question is, in your identity, we talk about these identities all the time. A one, I see a second. These like rocket booster, powerful idea, right? Like we create this distinction naturally within our conversations all the time. So we talk about these identities. What do you think is uniquely yours? Because if we talk about these identities all the time, part of the reason we're talking about them all the time is that there's more than just you and I. It's an identity. It's a shared identity. I am a second. There are hundreds. I propose millions of other seconds, but I am Nathan. There's something about me that is uniquely Nathan. And so for you, at the same in your identity, what do you think is uniquely Mondo's?

Mondo 24:02

Yeah, man. I think the first thing that hits me when you just asked that question was seat and like, let me add some color to this because there are. Endless. One second. Duo combinations. Partnerships happening. You, it could be in government, could be at a elementary school, it could be at church, it could be at the convenience store, right? The person in the second seat is like, role is to build the system or secure the foundation or make sure that this thing can expand or grow or whatever. The first in command. It's just leading in the seat of whoever that network of humans are. And so what's uniquely mines is whatever seat God is calling me to sit on, or sit in. I truly believe that's based on one, my character and two, my to endure a certain type of. External challenge example that use, 'cause we love this show is Ted lasso. Ted has excellent character, I would argue strongly. And if somebody says no, I would be like, what? And so the seat that he was supposed to sit in is head of a soccer club, but the humans that he was supposed to steward. That is uniquely his, to be a good steward to those humans in that environment. so for me, I don't necessarily know yet the seat that God is calling me to sit in to like Steward. Like if I had to identify like, this is my congregation, I don't know. But I do believe that he, he's sharpening my character in a way that I'm like, when I get to that seat, I will already have done the. Shooting in the gym like, yo, you were with Jesus shooting in the gym. So he done already like molded you, like strengthened your character. So whatever seat you're sitting in, you're not gonna falter 'cause it's not gonna be as hard as what you just had to endure walking with Christ. so, yeah man, like what's uniquely mines is some seat that God has set aside for me and my responsibility is just to be a good steward to the humans. Who are connected to that seat, right? Like social and emotionally, help them grow in their faith, help them take risks, help them do the things to like work together, to be unified, to be in service to others. And I'm gonna be like Nathan, like play their heartstrings so they feel inspired and motivated. How are we actually gonna get the things done? And once you tell me, then I'll continue to go activate. And inspire. So we can go do the thing and then I'll come back and say like, how do we do the next thing? so you and I talk about the what and the why, which I'll own. And then you give me the how. And so consistently I delegate the how to you so much so that, you know, to the people listening. sent an email before this and was just like, Hey, we're supposed to do this thing. Here's a 10 minute video on the how, uh, watch it. And if it doesn't make enough sense, tell me why. So I can fix it. So then you can then go do the thing. And I'm like. Thank you. Yes, please. so, so it just works so well for me because as long as I can continue to play in the space where I'm just focused on the what and the why. is just to be a good steward and like hope is my anchor word in this season, to just be a good steward of hope. And Nathan, you're just like, well, this is how you do it if we wanna be tactical to do it as a speaker. All right, bet. So, uh, yeah, that's my way to answer the question to start, but pause there if you wanna ask the question or I'll throw it back to you.

Nathan 27:32

I'm gonna add a little bit of new. So I think, I think your answer was awesome. And also I wanna, I wanna press in on another, layer of that, and that is what do you think is uniquely yours? And I actually think that you pointed to this in your answer, but what is uniquely yours as compared to other one ics. So like. I work a lot with one ics, right? I've made my job, the person who is stewarding both one ics and seconds along this path of like growing alone, going together, and then growing together. Right. And so like I'm working with a couple people actively who use that language, who I've used that language with. That is a thing that I'm continuing to shepherd, or I call it dance instructor, right? And so I'm pressing continually to that. I work with a bunch of one ICS then, and so I'm like, well, those people aren't Mondo I work with some people who are really obsessed about like money or they're like, oh, their unique thing seems to be that they can, everybody's, everyone I see says their unique thing is that they can see the future, but that seems to be global. So I'm like, that's actually not your unique thing. You all do that. So what is your unique thing, right? Like for me, one thing that I feel like I've noticed about you is that like you. Can tell stories and tug on heartstrings in a way that like no one else can. It's, it's uniquely Mondo across all the one ICS I work with. Nobody gets me inspired by way of that bit. No one can tell a story. No one can like anchor to this like real. I don't know, like you always do it with a pop culture reference too. Like something that I have like in the, in the moment where I can be like, yeah, I just saw that story. I know those characters. I can, I, you know, like no one else does that. I'm curious what you feel like is uniquely yours against those other people who are also this thing that we talk about.

Mondo 29:21

so I don't even know if you know that you're setting up this question this way, What immediately struck me when you said that was surrender,

Nathan 29:30

Hmm.

Mondo 29:30

and literally at the head of my website right now, it says surrender is the strategy. And so typically one ics are condition or built to fight, hustle, grid, grind, do whatever it takes with all their strength and all their might to not give up. I. what's unique to me is God said yes, path is true and can be true to those who want to embark on a journey that way. Also, Mando, there's a way to surrender and still execute or experience a story in the glorious way too. You talk about pop culture references, give you one. I don't think I used this before on this pod, but it is. One of my favorite moments of any movie ever, and it is from Ready Player One,

Nathan 30:18

Definitely tell you you've never dropped this moment.

Mondo 30:21

okay, all right, so like, like in Ready Player one, when they're on the race, when they're trying to like win the first or whatever. Symbolically, the main guy surrendered.

Nathan 30:35

I know what you're gonna say.

Mondo 30:36

so like instead of pushing on the gas and going forward, he stops, waits for everybody to go, puts it in reverse and goes backwards. And then God opens the door and reveals a track that goes underneath the same track. All independently and he ends up becoming the first person to finish the race. And so my unique thing is the person in the story, I believe player one chose to surrender and trust that God somehow guided me on this path that is just underneath or adjacent or whatever. And eventually like I'll cross the finish line and be like, Hey guys, surrender, right? And that's all he did. He then told his homies to surrender and then they did it. And then. And so like, yeah, like my role in the story is completely like flip the strategy of others upside down and be like, if you surrender, you're gonna be able to experience the story different. And other ones who choose to believe it will experience it that way or not. And they can continue to fight and like do it the way that everybody else is doing, which is cool too. So.

Nathan 31:40

That's, I think that is awesome. I love that moment we. Never talked about this that I know of. Maybe we have, I don't know.

Mondo 31:47

Oh

Nathan 31:47

But like Ready Player One is a book that I've read a dozen times. I only watched a movie once 'cause I was like, wow, I've already read the book 12 times. You know, like, um,

Mondo 31:57

was a book I didn't even know.

Nathan 31:59

so yeah. And I've read Ready Player Two, you know, which is not as good and um,

Mondo 32:05

know there was.

Nathan 32:06

yeah.

Mondo 32:07

there was that either.

Nathan 32:08

But as soon as you said that you led with this idea of like, surrender is a strategy. And they were like, when they're in the race and I was like, I know. Exactly right. I can, I can. I'd imagine the scene in my mind with like crystal clarity and so that's just, that's crazy. I love that you referenced that. Uh, you didn't even know that was a thing. That was like one of my favorite little pieces of fiction. Um, yeah. How fantastic.

Mondo 32:31

What's so dope about it to me, right? Like I was having this conversation in a Bible study with Tyree and like at the end of the Bible study I was just like, you know what? Really, like lived experience is a more fair than we give credit.

Nathan 32:47

Hmm.

Mondo 32:48

And I say that because. you think about ready player one, like the people in the back, if they surrender, right, just turn around, pause, repent, go the other way. There is a path for them that is on par with whoever is at the front of the story. And yo, my word right now, the unique word that I'm supposed to share out loud to any and everybody that wants to listen is surrender. Yes. And that doesn't mean you have to do what I did. Surrender all my possessions and do all that stuff, like that's not what I'm saying, but I am saying there is one thing that you're supposed to surrender it. You might be juggling three businesses, surrender one, you might have three girlfriends, surrender. Two, you might have all these investments, whatever, like there is something, some agreement, some plan that you're supposed to surrender that doesn't make any sense, but it leaves room for God to open that door. Behind you that's in your blind spot and you're like, oh man. Like if I wouldn't have moved that thing out of the closet, I wouldn't have been able to see that secret door. And so like you just have to surrender it. You have to empty your closet in a way that certain things are revealed that you didn't even know were there. And then when you do, again, this isn't about business, this is just about life as a whole. Like once you surrender something that is very special that you've been holding onto super tight, once you let it go. Something is revealed and you're like, that's a doper. I'm glad I released that thing. So.

Nathan 34:14

I love that.

Mondo 34:15

All right, Nathan. Well, I just went on a tangent about what's uniquely mines, and so let me ask it back. You literally wrote a book called How to Be Second, which clearly ties to an identity. So within that identity, what do you believe is uniquely yours?

Nathan 34:36

I've done enough exploration on this that I feel like I actually have some answer. Part of the reason I've had to do the exploration is when you're trying to say what is not uniquely yours, right? Like constantly, I'm trying to write a weekly email about. way that we as seconds bump against something and how we can navigate that. And so like I have this mental image of like an identity layer is shared by all seconds. But then sitting on top of that, are these pressures Our personality types that push pressure and they, those pressures together at a different layer, like make this shape that ends up uniquely yours. So, by way of trying to figure out constantly what is everyone's, it has forced me to reconcile what is not And so I actually feel like I've dug into this, what is uniquely mine thing a whole bunch. I think two things seem to be like uniquely mine. The first one is I love that you said surrender. I also have surrendered in so many places about myself, which sounds really funny as someone who talks about how the values and the nuance so often, but I've, I've thrown this out as like a joke before, but like, there's the Enneagram personality test and I'm a five. Normally you have like a number and then a wing number. I don't have a wing. I am like this thing exclusively done. And I have taken the, the Myers-Briggs test and I'm an INTJ and RA five and an INTJ. The same. I think they're similar, but I think they both, you know, they're all one finger on the elephant. Have I ever taken it and been a different thing? I haven't. I'm consistent every single time I am that thing. And so much of, I feel like what is uniquely me. That I've given up the need be something that I'm not naturally, like I just don't need to be. I'm not, I don't need to be this and that like I already am this and that I'm already an amalgamation of 27 fucking different things that I can't pull apart all at the same time. Right. And so like why make it more complicated? There are so many people in the how to be second community. are like, I can't tell if I'm a two or a two ic. And I'm like, I can, like, I can for me and I can for you. I, I've already figured it out. I've had 2000 conversations with seconds. I can just tell you two ics are either a two IC or go fuck yourself. And twos think maybe they're a two IC and aren't sure. Like, but the, the whole issue of the finding the identity is that they're scared, they're afraid of what it means. They're afraid that giving that thing up, what does it cost? And I'm like, what it costs is clarity, what it costs is feeling okay about this, that like, cares? Like what opportunity are you losing by just only being one thing? And I've talked about that before, like I've had so many people say like, oh, will you use the word second? Like, isn't that demeaning? Or is it that blah, blah, blah. And I'll be like, well, not to me. You know? Like, no, it's not. Has it lost me opportunities? Sure it has. Has it gained me so many opportunities in the right spaces, the places that I actually care about? Yes. Wildly so. Like, and so I feel like what is uniquely mine is that I have lived enough life. I've done so many things in my life. I've had so many jobs that I have inevitably become the general manager of. i've been in so many different companies. I've worked with so many people. I've hunted the foundation of what is like the throughput thing. Through all of those, I've pattern matched enough. And just come out with like this real security and looking at myself and going, I could be anything and I don't need to be. Finding secondness. Gave me the ability to stop redrawing my shape every conversation for every person, and instead just start getting so much better at communicating that shape clearly. And I feel like that is uniquely mine. I'm just willing to just be me so that, that. Yeah. Yep. One. I'm gonna say, this is the last thing that I'll say too, and that is, I'm not saying that there won't be more discoveries. Ask me again in five years. To draw the shape of me and I will probably draw you a slightly different squiggly shape than I might have today. Right. I think in your example, like, but I also think in your example, like Jamie would say he's Jamie and he, we even watch him evolve over the arc of Ted Lasso, but at the end of the arc he would still just look at and be like, I fully believe he would just be like, I wanna be me, I'm Jamie. What else? Like I don't need to be anything. I can grow, but it's not, I'm still me the whole time. I've been me the whole time. The other thing that I would throw out there is that like I'm a person who revels in the nuance, the, the, the pulling apart of too many things baked into one thing, right? I love pulling two ideas apart and being like, this is not that. And there is also a time when that stops being valuable. So many people have come into the how to be second community, and they've been like, you say that there's the two or the two ic, couldn't there be a third? And I'm like, yeah, maybe, but who fucking cares? Like we're already so deep into the like have you ever gotten a crayon box of 500 colors And there's 46 purples in there and it's beautiful that there's 46 purples. You know which ones that? I remember? Dark purple and light purple. The, it's a distinction without a difference. At some point, the nuance, it becomes valueless. What is uniquely me is I'm so comfortable being me and I also am like, look guys, at some point we can creep dissecting this, but like who fucking cares? We're gonna honor everything and then put it down right there. Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.