What was your college experience? What logos are you willing to rep?- One Second by How to be Second

Nathan and Mondo reflect on their wildly different college journeys, from Nathan’s hyper-optimized, relationship-free sprint to a degree, to Mondo’s talent-driven, winding path through athletics and self-discovery. Along the way, they unpack missed opportunities, the tension between systems and connection, and how those lessons shape who they are as fathers. The conversation turns to identity and alignment. What it means to “rep” something, whether it’s a brand, a value, or a belief and why choosing what (and who) you stand for ultimately reveals what you’re building, rejecting, and passing on. 

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is one second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities, reacting raw to questions from people like you, and exploring how we are different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at how to be second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is a natural OneIC.

Mondo 0:24

I'm excited that we are back. I hopped on this call and you were like, oh, you're repping your TSU shirt. Shout out to Cadence down at Texas Southern. I love you. Volleyball season is over and I'm excited for what happens next year. But all that to say, the random question generator, then somehow spit out a question that is aligned with college. And so we're just gonna start there. So Nathan, I've known you what, five years at this point, but we're gonna go back in time and I just wanna ask you like, what was your college experience like? I'm setting this up 'cause now I'm reflecting as I ask that question and how I was in college and I was like, if I was sitting next to you in class, how I see you now? I'm like, man, this dude is over committed. And we would've been besties in college too. So, uh, yeah. How was your college experience?

Nathan 1:20

I would have volunteered to do your homework. You wouldn't have even had to bully me. I would've just been like, yo, teach me how to ball and I will do all of this for you. Even trade. My college experience was weird. It was very weird. Let me actually, you know what, let me reframe that. In my experience, my college experience wasn't that weird. I discovered it wasn't that weird. It's going to sound very weird. What I discovered is that it isn't weird. It was unusual, but it's not weird. Here's how my college went down. In my early twenties, I decided I'm going to go to college. The way that I was raised, college was not on the table. That was not a conversation we had. Actually, I would say that by and large, my parents, um, they didn't, they didn't put much weight in it. Right? Let's say that as the kindest way to phrase that. And so it just wasn't on the radar. I had lots of friends go to college. I visited them at college. It seemed like a really cool experience. So finally in my early twenties, I was like, okay, I don't have any money. I don't know how any of this works. And I've never been to school. I was homeschooled. So I honestly, I was also afraid. And, and when you grow up, when you spend 20 years with people telling you like you're really smart, but then you like have nothing to measure that against. You just, you don't actually know. Right. So I went to college, I went to a local community college. This was in, I can't remember, I was 20, 22, 23, something like that. I started going to a local community college. I was taking a few classes. It was, first of all, very strange because, you know, all the other people in my classes were like 18 and 19. And so that was really weird. I was like, oh. Oh wait, not everyone, I had a couple other, like adults and stuff like that, but by and large it felt like a bunch of kids and me, so that was already a little odd. And then I didn't really know what I was supposed to be doing, so I was just taking some, like gen eds or something. I was broke and I, you know, so like, I just had this weird, like, I didn't, I was really sensitive about money. I was, I wasn't frugal, I was cheap. I was trying to figure that out. I was trying to, you know, like there, there was a lot going on as apparently college kids, actually, that's really normal. And so it felt very weird to me. It all felt very weird. And then I discovered it wasn't that weird. In my case, was a little unusual. I lived off campus, you know, it was a community college, so like I lived off campus, I had my own apartment, whatever. And I had jobs and I was doing a lot of other stuff, so it was a very scattered experience. It didn't last very long. I ended up going two semesters. And I was doing that at the same time that I was like, I think I want to be like a generalist, like consultant. I don't think I want to get a job. I think I want to be like sort of a mercenary, I wanna be somebody for hire. So I started doing that stuff 20 years ago almost. So that only lasted for like a year. Then later, three, four years later, married, first daughter born, second daughter on the way working for this consulting company. I stopped working for the consulting company. I talked to Samantha about it. We made the plan together. I was gonna go back to school and the whole plan was, I'm gonna try to get my degree as fast as possible. I wanted my four year degree. I wanted to constrain the entire thing, so I started keeping a diary on YouTube and actually you can still go find all these videos. I kept a diary called Bachelor's degree in one year, and I got 87 credits in one year. And for those who don't know, you need 120 credits to graduate in four years.

Mondo 4:44

That's

Nathan 4:45

So it was bonkers. It was bonkers. It was an insane experience. I did a lot of alternative stuff. I kept an online diary on YouTube. I built a following of something like 2000 subscribers. Like I was consulting other people on their degree journeys. I was keeping like, how to videos I was making like tutorials because you can't involve me in a thing without me building a system for how other people can do it. And so over the course of one year, I got 87 credits. I didn't quite finish my degree. I had to go back and get the last, like, sweep up the last credits a little while later. But, yeah, I did that and along the way I also ended up teaching people how to accelerate their degree and it's still something I know how to do and occasionally still get reach outs from my like primary website about it. The craziest thing about all of that is. I never had any connection to any school because of it. And so I think in that what I felt like was really weird, but not unusual. 'cause I ended up meeting so many people who had such a strange experience with college through what I was doing. So I was like, oh, this isn't weird. It's unusual, but it's actually, I know so many people now who also were on this journey similar to mine. The thing that ended up really weird about it is. Like, I never even got a shirt with a logo, let alone tried to decide whether to rep it or not. Like I don't have one, I have zero tie to anything tangible about the entire experience. So it's all very like ethereal to me and that's very odd. And so now let me, now that I've said all of that out loud, let me kind of throw back at you and be like, so that's wonky. That was not your experience, I don't think. Unpack your experience for me and then we'll bat it back and forth for maybe a second.

Mondo 6:26

Yeah, for sure. Uh, yeah, that is super interesting for you to step into college a little older than others and being like, this feels weird or unusual. Let me go do years later, the most unusual thing I've ever heard and 80 something credits in a year. I don't even know why that thought dropped into your awareness. Like it just w wouldn't even, wouldn't even be something I would consider a plausible outcome any day. That's fascinating. Okay, so, yes. Uh, here's Mondo on the other end of the spectrum, and as you were telling your story, I was thinking about how my college experience shaped my dreamer journey from the beginning, I guess. So, in Minnesota I was recognized as an elite athlete. It didn't matter where I was at, like, athletics was just very easy to me. I played basketball primarily. It was a sport that I loved. was a sport I played early on in high school, but I was significantly better at football. The game just came easier to me, but I didn't enjoy it.

Nathan 7:35

know that you played football?

Mondo 7:37

Yeah, it was so early that I, I just ended up surrendering that 'cause I'm like, these pads don't really work for me. Playing outside in the rain and cold. That's goofy. Locker rooms smell like crap ass and just the whole thing. Just, do people enjoy this? So, my

Nathan 7:55

I guess that's why, I guess what you just described is why I didn't know you put a ball. You're like, 'cause I don't care. Like,

Mondo 8:01

Nothing about it resonated with me, but, I played receiver and it was just easy to catch a ball. Throw it at me, and I will catch it. However, if we would've had an amazing elite quarterback, I imagine it would've been a different story. And so God

Nathan 8:15

Hmm.

Mondo 8:16

my way. Yes. And. Basketball career ended. I ready to go play at a D one school. Our team didn't necessarily hit that elite level, like conference, go to state win titles and all those things. I was just a solo good athlete scoring champion of the conference. I just was like, good at what I did and I was just like, I deserve to play D one basketball. But I didn't have the looks, I didn't have the relationships and at the time just my family didn't recognize the process on like how to land that. Me, I was just like, I believe I'm good enough. I'm just gonna go walk on to a school that I feel like is dope and when I get there, they will love me. That's what I believe. So I went down to University of Tennessee, walked on to try out there and tryouts for 15 minutes. They didn't select anyone. It was just to have tryouts, just 'cause they mandated have to bring people into the gym. And then

Nathan 9:15

Yeah.

Mondo 9:15

and that was it. so I share that because that started this just like meandering road of I believe that I am supposed to land somewhere or do this thing that's related to athletics. So from ut, I went to Florida a and m. I tried to walk on there twice, got cut, came back here. I played community college, went to another school for like a quick second and was just like considering, uh, does this mean I'm just supposed to play football? 'cause I'm really good at it. Just 'cause like

Nathan 9:47

It.

Mondo 9:47

was part of my identity and,

Nathan 9:49

Yeah.

Mondo 9:50

in and this coach was like, I don't even know who you are. But you look like you could play. And then it is just like this super odd experience. it just like fell through. And now I'm just like, God was like, bro, you're doing too much. And then I went to Augsburg College for, I don't know, just a few weeks. And then like the crisis hit. The home crisis. I don't even know what

Nathan 10:14

Yeah, 2008.

Mondo 10:15

Yeah. And so like when that hit, just like my home life world changed and then like I had dropped outta college and just started working. All that to say I was just finding myself and doing things and going on this journey and like falling on my face over and over and over and over. Through that the academics were always good. I love like the mind so I majored in psych. I got straight A's in every psych class. It was just like easy to me and I enjoyed that. And then my gen ed courses, I was just like, get B'S or I'll get like whatever's necessary. But in the end, my athletic journey, trying to land a spot and play sports and academics was a far second contrasted with will layer in as many academics as possible, into one year and to my understanding, no athletics.

Nathan 11:10

So actually one thing that it sounds like we may share in this is that, I mentioned, like I have no connections, right? I don't, I don't even have a t-shirt. It was optional to attend a graduation ceremony. Thomas Edison state University of New Jersey is where I got all my credits, most of my credits. I had a few right from the very first stint that I did at the community college that were able to transfer in. And so like I really baked a pie from lots of different ingredients and, I didn't do it. I was like, why am I gonna fly to the place so that I can walk the, you know, like, nobody's gonna be there. Nobody's gonna take a picture of me. And I don't do stuff for pictures anyway, so who cares? And so I have no connections. I have people actually, there's this, one woman in particular that I remember who was the very first person who ever got in touch with me. Her name's Kara Preto. Who was like, I graduated and I saved a ton of money and time because I watched your videos and followed along on your videos with you. And I remember, like, she would used to comment on my YouTube videos and stuff like that and like, there were a bunch of people like that that I know from the YouTube stuff that I did, but I don't know anyone. Like I never made a friend in class. I never. I remember my Spanish teacher who was wonderful, but like, I didn't make friends with any of my teachers. I didn't make friends with any of my classmates. I have no connections whatsoever. And so I'm, I'm really curious because of that experience, 'cause I was basically like, I have wife and kids and I need a degree so I can get a better job and I need to get that all as fast as possible is the only thing I care about. And everything else was just trappings that weren't necessary for me. I'm curious, like you navigated a lot of these, did you end up with like, do you still know people from that time?

Mondo 12:52

Yeah, the only relationships I have from that time is a few really dope friendships from when I actually played basketball when I moved back here. Played for a community college for a quick second, well for two years actually. But outside of that, when I was. In those bigger schools. I really appreciated my alone time. Like there was something about going from. I don't know local, everyone's fully aware of your business living this life. Like, oh, that's Mondo. This is what he does, blah, blah, blah. To like going to an environment and being like, nobody knows me. I don't have to say hi to anybody. I can just be recluse and do whatever I want to do and not be bothered. really found some peace and solace in that, and so. It also kind of helped me strengthen this muscle of being able to work on whatever gift I was trying to mature independently. so like every day, like I would go hoop like by myself and just work or go, you know, work out or whatever. And so there is just something about going alone. College helped me, build that muscle of going alone. And I would say I didn't build a muscle around going together, until I then played basketball at that community college when I moved back here years later. And that's actually where I found my voice.

Nathan 14:17

Hmm.

Mondo 14:18

before I was just like a really good athlete and people would follow me 'cause of my talent. like. wasn't a boisterous leader. And it took for me to go through this journey to actually find my voice, and so hence, again, shout out to Cadence. Early in her journey, I'm talking about probably as soon as she started playing volleyball. I was like, if I don't hear your voice on the court, there's a problem. Like develop the command of the floor and the players around you and help guide them or pour into them or inspire them or make sure that they're not falling under the bus because there is something super special I believe, about the person who turn to when they need to hear the right words. so now just as an adult turning 41 in a couple weeks, I feel like part of my responsibility is being that voice doesn't matter when or where, but like I want to be that voice that that pours into others.

Nathan 15:14

Amazing. I wanna press on that one more. 'Cause you just said a thing and it made me think about something too, which is like how insane I felt as you described your journey, because I feel like we just laid out the most secondee sounding versus the most like OneIC e sounding. Like I said, I didn't meet anyone, didn't attend anything. What I did was I constructed my own plan all the way to the point of like I taught the advisors at the school about their own system. Right. And I was like, you can refer to my YouTube videos based on this. I was working with this course software company called study.com, where I made like multiple partnership videos with them because I would like take their experience and then talk about it and like teach other people how to take their courses and which ones to take to actually translate into credits. So then they reached out to me as a brand ambassador. This shit was 12 years ago. Like influencers were barely a thing. And so I was teaching people how to do the thing. I was teaching people who were supposed to be the people, how to do their jobs as a student. What I had though, was the most insanely well constructed plan. I understood every resource, every lever. I intimately understood the machine. I knew exactly how to extract exactly what I needed from the machine without ever talking to anyone, and that's how I approached it. You showed up on campus and went, I know I'm good enough and not once, like four times. And the thing that kills me is I bet you were good enough and you didn't. It wasn't lack of talent, it was probably lack of connection.

Mondo 16:57

For sure, for sure. And like not understanding kind of to your point, the systems and the levers and understanding like how this machine works. I, I didn't have a Nathan, I didn't have any awareness. I just believe that talent was going to carry me far enough. And I think that goes to like why this podcast as a whole is so valuable. 'cause we're like, yo, these are two distinctly different, lived, I don't know, archetypes that, like go on these two separate things that they like, don't touch each other until they do. then when they do, it's just like, oh man. Like how, beautiful that is. And so I.

Nathan 17:34

Well, yes, and so the one thing that I really wanna press into, and I want to bridge this over to the idea of how we are parents, right? Because this is our lived experience translated into the guidance of the lived experience of another. And so it doesn't matter whether you are a person who is in charge of an organization or a person who is in charge of children. But something that we both did was that we both had this very traditional experience and effectively walked away with zero opportunities from that thing. I navigated it in my way. It produced nothing for me that I could carry forward. I got the stamp. I got the mechanical thing and I moved on and effectively forgot about it, and it has never been useful in any way. You know how many of my clients have ever asked about my college degree? Literal zero. So I got the degree. I thought, that's the thing, right? I need this thing. This is my stepping stone thing. It was practically a complete distraction. I'm glad I did it one year. What a waste of fucking time that would've been like, and so, but here's the other thing that I'm struck by. I built zero relationships and I did all of the machining this, but I ignored all of the opportunities. You showed up. You just had the talent. You were willing to walk into any room. I never walked into any room. You walked into any room you wanted

Mondo 19:00

Yeah.

Nathan 19:01

and there was never a fear of that if we had just gone together. Right. I would've been like, yo, I'll fill out all your forms of, right, like you'd be in the NBA

Mondo 19:11

Yeah.

Nathan 19:12

and I would be your gm and we would be, you know, like this would've been a completely different story. And so. That's sad, but also, here we are. We can, we'll sort it out from here. But the other thing that I'm struck by is like, so you had this lived experience where it seems like I in your way, you weren't able to capitalize or didn't catch or perceive those opportunities, some of those mechanical things. I only did the mechanical things. I missed all of the human stuff, which means I wasn't able to take advantage of any of the opportunities in both of our cases. There were opportunities everywhere. We were just blind to them

Mondo 19:47

Yeah,

Nathan 19:48

And not able to do the thing the other person was naturally doing. And so as you did that, you've already mentioned like with Cadence as she started navigating volleyball. You saw your lived experience

Mondo 20:01

facts.

Nathan 20:01

and you went, wait a minute, because one thing I have watched you do is not just be present, but you have multiplied the ability for her to capitalize and have opportunities without question. And so I'm like. Even though it hasn't seemed like your natural bent, it feels like you realized this is a thing I didn't get, and we're gonna make sure it's not my gift, but we're gonna make sure that we don't Biff this for you.

Mondo 20:28

For sure, for sure. I mean, I think I did not right, I would be somebody called me a fool, right from the top of the mountain to be like, yo, cadence also has these gifts. Let me talk about Cadence for a second and just talk about her circle of influence and support. I felt that I had to be successful, and I've said this before, because other people put the pressure on me, but because I had no excuse. I can't say like, oh, my dad wasn't there, or I wasn't loved, or I didn't have any people to lean on, or I didn't have the confidence or the or the whatever, like was like. You have all the things like I was birthed with some privileges that most people don't have, and because of that I was like, I have to be successful. What I later learned is those attributes that God gave me, could have sprinted to success, but that wasn't the fulfillment of the story. I was watching this video today that people probably seen with, I believe it was the Boston Marathon. And near the end of the marathon, the dude's legs just collapsed. Like he could not walk, he couldn't take another step. And these two gentlemen ran and by, they picked him up and helped him. what I recognized about. My story is I'm one of the guys running whose legs won't go out. If I

Nathan 21:52

Hmm.

Mondo 21:53

by and just leave that guy laying there. I am doing a disservice to the privilege that God blessed me with. And that's just because I was filled with so much love. And so for cadence, has an even more abundance of love than I did. 'cause she has all the people I had and she's a girl. One of the first girls in the family, so I'm like, okay, cadence, I'll expose you to all these things and open up all these doors, but still your responsibility is to be an amazing human.

Nathan 22:23

Yeah.

Mondo 22:23

gonna go to school and play volleyball and do all these things, but. Like you better fill somebody else up. You're gonna come across someone who did not have the lifestyle or the access that you did, and like pour into them and don't leave them behind. And so I guess just me kind of reflecting on your question. We went and did the things that we were best at, right?

Nathan 22:47

Yeah.

Mondo 22:47

walk in any room. I need to get this thing for me. You're like, intellectually I can build any machine, but at what point are we serving others? And at the time when I was in college, it wasn't in my awareness to serve anybody else. I was just there to maximize something about Mondo. So I, I'll pitch it back to you and, and kind of just ask, like, now in retrospect, what would you say is greatest learning from all that? I feel like we don't experience anything that wasn't meaningful. And so you were there, you did that for a reason, but like why, why was that your arc?

Nathan 23:23

That's a good question. I'll react to that. Which is the point right, is to catch, I mean, on some level, the whole point of the show is to catch us off guard and be like, alright, how do you go about this? One thing that experience cemented for me was what you just said. I got a little emotional just now when you said that. This idea of like, you transitioned from the recognition of serving yourself to serving others. And I, I have always considered myself a person who was willing to do whatever it takes. I still use this phrase, which is, there are poor uses of my time, but there is no work that is beneath me. So, am I capable of advising a hundred million dollar companies and providing value at that level? Well, yeah, clearly I am. I'm not just saying that that's the shit that I do like, and, and am I, am I willing to sweep the porch? Am I willing to sweep the floor? Am I willing to shovel the horse shit in the barn also? Yes. Right, like I'll do the advisor role and then I'll change the diaper and like I don't have an issue with that. There are better uses of my time. Am I the right person to drive the forklift around and move the pallets? No. There are better uses of my time. I can be more impactful in other places, but no work has beneath me. I've maintained this for a very long time and I still do, and I find some satisfaction and honor in this and. I think that year was really like a showcase to myself of being like, for my wife and children, I'll do anything. And that was like a real adjustment. There's no hour too long, there's no grind too hard, there's no, I'm certain, you know, like this season is hard and. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters for this. I will do anything. And so that really was the transition in my mind between, I've been doing things that served others for long time, but there was something about being like, oh, you can survive anything to take care of these people, and. So anyway, like I said, when you said that just now about like I transitioned from sort of doing things for myself to doing things for others and that being like a marker, I was like, oh, I remember that is what my college experience. That solidified for me. Um,

Mondo 25:43

I

Nathan 25:44

yeah.

Mondo 25:44

what you just said, just as a whole hits, because I do think for some of us there is that transition where we go from our state to our selfless state. And most people I feel like get there, rather they get married or have kids or like something happens or someone is sick or whatever, right? Like life does that thing. But that other agreement that you just said about where you can put yourself in the story where. You maximize your gifts, but your willingness to go anywhere else because you don't feel like any role or job is beneath you. don't believe that everybody hits that. I don't at all believe that everybody hits that. There is something about out the humility. Of like I'm a human being and I will serve in any capacity, and I would love not to shovel shit, but if I'm called to shovel shit, I will. shit with. It won't be a smile, but it at least be a smirk and be like, I'm gonna find some joy in it somehow. This is to take care of my family, or I'm gonna do the thing. And like, I feel like too many of us actually missed that. And so I just really wanted to kind of go back and like high five that 'cause that was really important.

Nathan 26:57

Thank you. Thank you. I'm just gonna receive that. Normally I, you know what? I do want to ask my question. So I'm, I actually wanna transition because I feel like this is connected. It all, it feels like one continuous conversation, so we don't need to necessarily wax poetic so that we can be respectful of all of our time. And thank you listener. But I came with a question that I wanted to ask and it basically was what logos are you really comfortable repping? It feels like a continuity of our conversation just now, which is we both went to institutions, we both did a lot of things. And I have nothing to represent this experience other than my own face on YouTube. I have no t-shirt, I have no whatever. Right. And you're actually repping cadences. And that's extra funny to me because I think the only school pride stuff we have in our house is our girls.

Mondo 27:50

Yep.

Nathan 27:51

And I would wear that. I would be like, yeah, Wolf pride I get. Yep. You know, I have no embarrassment about that, but it's, it's for my kids and you and I don't have it. So, but then my question to you is, what logos are you willing to rep?

Mondo 28:03

What's funny about that is, you know, cadence played Club, Cadence is just, she's a sports gal and as a dad i'm a very like stoic supporter. So like you'll walk in and you'll be like, dang, Mondo sits in the same seat. He has this same stoic face. He doesn't yell. Very rarely does he clap. He just has this look like, don't bother me. He's enjoying the game. And so, other parents as they should like pride and signs and they wear like get up and all the things. And actually became funny over the years because I don't know, let's just be like, yo, it's tie dye weekend and everybody came in their tie dye and I would be sitting right in the middle with my black tech guy shirt on, like unwilling to

Nathan 28:52

Yep.

Mondo 28:53

from what was going on. And so once I surrendered kind of my own selfish branding, the black tech guy, I actually, didn't feel comfortable wearing another brand. Kind of to your point. It felt like I wasn't being true to something. I didn't necessarily know what. And so I don't have a single item something on the front except for this shirt actually. And to your point, it's cadences, like sweatshirts, I buy, you know, it's like h and m, no logo T-shirts. Just t-shirts. Yesterday I grabbed something out and I had a t-shirt, and like at the very bottom it said like Calvin Klein in the smallest print didn't even know that it was a Calvin Klein shirt, so nobody else

Nathan 29:37

Yeah.

Mondo 29:37

I guess all that to say. I don't want to rep something that isn't fully in alignment with who I am or where I'm at in that season. right now, just the core word in my life is love. And so I am waiting for God to be like mano hears something, a design or a heart, or just the word LOVE, that like. You can feel comfortable wearing every day. And when that happens, every time you see me, I will have that somewhere stamped on my front or back. But outside of that right now, it's either yep, repping something for cadence or repping love.

Nathan 30:14

Yeah.

Mondo 30:14

throw it back to you 'cause I haven't seen you in much stuff except for some nine swag, when the time is right. But I'll let you speak to that.

Nathan 30:23

Yeah. I would say part of my movement into going together. Right. I think really over the last 10 years was just this idea of like, I actually love being a fan of things, and I would say really, all through my twenties, I went, I'm gonna wear every logo I can. I desperately want to be like I believe in things that are good. I love being a fan of things. It's part of my personality, right? Not just personality, but like it's a core to my identity. I am a naturally collaborative person. I want to go together. I went to college alone, but in going to college alone, I built a community of 2000 people who followed me around doing what I did so I could teach them how to do the thing. You know, like I don't do anything sort of like for myself necessarily. As soon as I'm doing something alone, I try to find other people that I can produce value for. And so I'm like, why would I build this machine unless somebody else could actually, you know, use it? So I discovered like, wait, part of the superpower that I bring, my identity, my secondness. Part of what I bring to things is to make them go no matter what. Right? Like, I make things go. People can have ideas. That's cool. I love that people have ideas and are inspired. Like my daughter, Claire, is an absolute artist. She builds things all the time. She makes things all the time just for herself, just 'cause she loves it. I enable that. Right? Without her parents she wouldn't have the art supplies, she wouldn't have the art classes. I drove her to school early this morning so that she could do a different thing, you know. Which she needed, she needed me to do that thing. So she had the idea, I would love to do this. And I went, yes, I will make that happen. And that's what I do. I say, yes, I will make that happen. And the thing happens and I'm like, good thing I was around. And so people won't see us, right? They'll see her, and that's exactly what I want. But her awesome thing wouldn't exist if I weren't here to do it. And I don't need people to see me. What I need people to see is the shit that I love. And I'm like, you know what people will see when they see me, the stuff that I have said yes to. And I am willing to say out loud that I have said yes to things. And the most powerful piece of that was, I had to go if I'm gonna always wear the brand, if I'm gonna always buy hard into the things that I give my attention to, my time and attention, which are even more valuable than my money, but also my money. I was like the things that get my time and attention, A, get my money, and B, get my advertisement on my chest. And so if that's true. I better start getting really choosy and so, so I, I rep things constantly. I talk about Pokemon all the time. I talk about Nintendo, I talk about the Legend of Zelda. I talk about this video game developer called Neon Falcon. I talk about my kids, I talk about my wife. I talk about Coalition nine. I talk about how to be second, like. I talk about Khan Academy. I talk about, Wikipedia. Like these things get my time, they get my attention, they get my money, they get my saying them like, they don't pay me. I just fucking love that they exist. I love that they exist and I wanna give everything to being a real actual fan of those things being true and my part in making them real. And I just want to own that. And so I'm on the exact opposite side. I think maybe I'm a little strange in this, but I love being a fan of things. I love it.

Mondo 33:50

You just said something. Oh man. gonna ask a question and you can say, no, I don't want to answer that question might

Nathan 33:59

Okay.

Mondo 33:59

a question that's worth answering. There are some things that you will rep on your chest. you love. Is there something right now that you absolutely despise?

Nathan 34:09

Is gonna put me in some hot water.

Mondo 34:11

Again, you can say, no, this might be a do next episode.

Nathan 34:15

No, I, there are some things that I despise. And I don't even think this is gonna put me in hot water. It's gonna put me in hot water with someone and in which case fuck them. Right, because owning what you love does necessarily like what you just said, mean not owning what you don't want to become true. At how to be second, which I wear, right? Like, here's my hat, you know. I was wearing the sweater around this morning. There are so many things going on today that take away that are just bullshit, right? I'm pretty harsh on ai. Any of it. The best one I can imagine right now is anthropic. And even that, I'm like, no one needs this shit. No one needs this. You know what I need? I need my eggs to be less fucking expensive. Right. I need more houses for my neighbors. And like this dumb ass shit will not get those things for us. And so like I need more people to be more caring about other people. This is doing the opposite at speed. So I'm like, fuck this stuff. Is it an incredible tool? Yeah. And a conveyor belt's also an incredible tool. Let's get a couple more of those, right? And let's use them to move dirt from over here to somewhere else so we can put a house there so the person can live in it and they can be safe while they eat and they sleep, right? Like this isn't doing that. I hate that. I hate that. And so I won't put those logos on me because at how to be second, we have this community agreement, which is advice only when you agree that you are brainstorming. Otherwise only speak from lived experience. And I just feel like these are bullshit on steroids machines. They are just amalgamated advice. Anyone can say anything at any time, and these machines do it at a scale in perceivable and I'm just like, right, but this human lived a human thing.

Mondo 36:20

Yeah.

Nathan 36:20

That's real and it's a real life thing. And the only reason any of this matters is because they're a person and I'm a person with them. And so I'm like, that's it. That's the only thing that matters. And so I am willing to say out loud, are these incredible tools? Yeah, sure. Do they do any of the shit that I think actually has any meaning or value? No, they don't. No. And I hate them.

Mondo 36:44

That was, I am so grateful that you spoke from your heart instead of think out loud. Like I think that was so meaningful to just put the human in the center and being like all this money, billions, trillions of dollars going around and not actually serving humanity in a way that humanity should or could be served. And that needs to change. I am 100% in alignment with that. So I won't say any more words. I'll just say the word love. That's it.

Nathan 37:13

We will honor my tirade and your appreciation of it and put it down right there. Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper if you're interested. If you resonated with the way that Nathan talked about himself, I am Nathan you might be what we call a Second. This is an identity, not a role. We have a couple ways to dig into that curiosity. You can take our am I a second assessment on our website at how to be second.com/assessment. It is directional, not definitive. You can grab the book, how to Be Second from our website or Amazon or almost anywhere you like to buy books, including on audio read by the authors, myself and David Hartman. If you resonated with Mondo, I have a couple things for you as well. Second seat.org focuses on sponsoring seconds to be able to sit in the second seat at Youth-Focused Impact organizations to help them scale. Second Seat is always looking to talk to community impact organizations who are interested in getting a second, and for funding groups who want those types of organizations to succeed. If you're a for-profit, how to be Second has a matchmaking, not recruiting service, where we make connections between first and seconds, where there's a relationship, energy, skill, and compensation match. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support how to be second at How to be second.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.