How do you see advocacy & vulnerability in the One Second relationship?- One Second by How to be Second

Nathan and Mondo explore why so many Seconds struggle to ask for what they need, even when opportunities are within reach. Nathan shares stories from the matchmaking process, where talented Seconds disqualify themselves before ever advocating for flexibility or support, while Mondo argues that vulnerability is often the strongest form of self-advocacy. Along the way, they unpack trust, communication, and the role Dreamers play in creating space for honest conversations. The result is a deeper look at how vulnerability, self-awareness, and courage help people build stronger partnerships, and why asking the hard question is often the first step toward growth. 

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is One Second, a react-style conversation between two people with wildly different identities. A Second, plans, systems, management, gets it done type of person... And what we call a natural 1iC, one of those in the clouds, ideas, visionary, entrepreneur type people. Each person is given a question before the start of the show, we hit record, and we see how two people with different identities react. We explore how we're different while embracing that we're better together. If you're glad this work exists, we need you to support it by either becoming a supporter for $5 at howtobesecond.com/support or shooting over an email to let us know why not. We cannot get better if we don't hear from you. On to the show.

Mondo 0:41

All right, Nathan. I have a question for you. How does a Second advocate for themselves to that visionary type that oftentimes just dominates the environment?

Nathan 0:53

This is a very funny moment to ask this question because my gut response wants to be like, "They don't." They don't advocate for themselves." So I'm gonna tell you this quick story. is happening right now. This is-- I mean, like I don't, I don't... you know, I'm not 100% on when this will release, but in this moment, this is happening. are leading the matchmaking, the going together a First-in-Command with a Second. So we're working actively with the First-in-Command. in our matchmaking experience. We like do the whole get me ready portion of we like build out the job description. but really what we're trying to figure out is What kind of person going to be the best fit for this First-in-Command, 'cause they're a person, right? And so then we go into the the community of Seconds, and we always start with our people who have done the homework, we call it. So these are people-- These are Seconds

Mondo 1:47

TwoIC sentence

Nathan 1:47

gone through like meeting with a coach, um, taking some like personality assessments. Like again, understanding who they are. So we go to those people first. Now we're doing like the... we wanna go a little further into the community, and we're sharing the job description. But the job description does not have salary in it. We know what the salary is in our matchmaking process. One of the things that we have committed to that we

Mondo 2:15

that we get the answer

Nathan 2:17

on--

Mondo 2:17

what's on,

Nathan 2:18

available

Mondo 2:18

available, the First Thing Man.

Nathan 2:20

but we

Mondo 2:21

But we make the Second say

Nathan 2:23

they

Mondo 2:23

they

Nathan 2:24

without knowing. We have this whole theory on this, we call the justification divide, whatever. So we make the Second go, "Well, "This is what I need." And they don't get to know, They don't get to

Mondo 2:34

need to justify what they say

Nathan 2:37

what's on. offer. This is hilarious to watch. Like when you tell this person, "Hey, are you interested in this role? And they go, "Well, "What's, what's it pay?" I go, not what I asked are you interested? And and you just tell me what do you need? Like you can, You can say anything." And they're like, "Well, do you know what's available?" And I'm like, "Yes, I do." And it's like, "Well, just tell me what's available." And I'm like, "No, that's not the question. The question is, what do you need?" And joke, I have had-- a dozen people disqualify themselves

Mondo 3:14

by

Nathan 3:15

without ever answering that

Mondo 3:17

Sorry, can I ask a question. Wow. For a

Nathan 3:20

bunch of different

Mondo 3:21

bunch of different reasons. For a bunch of different reasons. most of them

Nathan 3:23

of them are saying,

Mondo 3:24

saying,

Nathan 3:25

"Well, I can't drive that far, currently, the role is in office full-time And it says it in the description. It says, "This is

Mondo 3:36

said this is flexible

Nathan 3:37

after a

Mondo 3:38

after a relationship and performance are established. It doesn't say how long that thing's gonna take.

Nathan 3:44

right? It doesn't. I know this person in command personally.

Mondo 3:50

First

Nathan 3:50

a wonderful human being. Any Second would be lucky to go together with this person to build any organization. Like, I'm very, I'm very much an advocate of this human being now. Um, they have done the

Mondo 4:05

have done. for them. They are fantastic. They are

Nathan 4:06

They are very flexible.

Mondo 4:07

flexible.

Nathan 4:07

to start

Mondo 4:08

We have to start somewhere.

Nathan 4:09

have to

Mondo 4:09

Yeah. What a job it was doing together

Nathan 4:11

have to start somewhere you can't in every single line be like, "But up for negotiation." You know, like, um, everything in

Mondo 4:18

everything in here is a statement of

Nathan 4:19

a lie. Like,

Mondo 4:21

also about reflection.

Nathan 4:22

so, so no less than a dozen Seconds have gone, I can't possibly make that commute." It's in, it's north of the Twin Cities by like 15 minutes or so. So a whole bunch of seconds

Mondo 4:33

like

Nathan 4:34

looking at the

Mondo 4:34

would be in the job description.

Nathan 4:36

They're going, "This

Mondo 4:36

They're going, "This is

Nathan 4:37

me.

Mondo 4:37

death.

Nathan 4:38

have the

Mondo 4:38

I'm dead."

Nathan 4:39

to do this job. I can't drive that far every day." And they are not saying, Here is what it would

Mondo 4:48

They are not safe. "Here is what it

Nathan 4:49

for this to be worth it to me." Like, bar none none of them has advocated for themselves in this way. They haven't even gotten curious. They Haven't even said, "Would it be possible to get this?"

Mondo 5:07

Yeah.

Nathan 5:07

stopped right there. and disqualified themselves. And finally, I got so frustrated this morning that I sent someone

Mondo 5:16

with

Nathan 5:16

a message that said,

Mondo 5:18

person that I sent someone back a message that said, "Hey

Nathan 5:19

literally zero

Mondo 5:21

TwoIC

Nathan 5:21

have asked the question, Would it be possible to get this? Because this is what I need in order to make this worth it to me." And they were like, "Oh, I can't believe that I didn't do that." Actually, let me... Yes. Okay. So I'll do that. Here's what I need. I would need this little bit of flexibility." And I said, "Yeah, that would be super easy Barely an inconvenience." And they were-- right?

Mondo 5:46

I knew I would need physical and mental flexibility. And I said, "Yeah, that would be super easy for your new Okay. Okay.

Nathan 5:46

head exploded. They were like, "Oh, Damn. I almost really fucked up I'm okay, yes, actually, I should Very seriously. think about this opportunity, and I should put myself towards Maybe I am the right person for this thing, and maybe I do wanna pursue this. that's literally all it took was for me to. go, "Can you please just ask me the question, Hey, here's what it would take for-- to make this worth it for me. Is that on the table, at all?'" and so They did. they took the 10 of self-reflection, it, and I went, "Yeah, sure." we could do that." Like...

Mondo 6:18

Okay, now I'm curious. I'm curious if there is a mental block or reservation because it's work-related and they're talking to a visionary, or does that transcend work, and does it happen with friends or intimate relationships or partners, or is it just this one-two dynamic, in your opinion?

Nathan 6:37

very much is that it is exacerbated in this dynamic, it's everywhere. That's my suspicion. I think it's dramatically exacerbated in this particular dynamic.

Mondo 6:50

Okay. Is there-- Is this, "Hey, human being, second, you have to work on this," and it's just a hurdle that you have to overcome? Or are visionaries supposed to support or nudge or encourage in a certain type of way? Is there a way that we need to help? Or do we just sit back and be like, "Eventually you'll grow into this person and you'll be ready, but like our hands are washed right now."

Nathan 7:16

I think you have always done this a level of excellence that has been difficult to like, put into a structure It's just the person that you are. So kudos to you. I don't know if I've ever said this to you but, uh, I think if you had asked me this question, before I had met you, if someone had asked me this question, before I had met you, I would've said, "I think this is a Second's need to grow up." thing to do right? Like CEOs became CEOs because they learned the difficulty of advocating for themselves. so for a CEO to look at-- for a first in command look at a person who can't advocate for themselves, they're like, "Why the fuck am I gonna give you control over my company?"

Mondo 8:03

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Nathan 8:04

Right? Like "Oh, you didn't clear hurdle number one." So I would say historically, I would've just gone, "Well, you just disqualified yourself." by being unable to advocate for yourself," 'cause that's, that's what the job. is. Because you have showed me very much a different way I believe, and that is have a patience and a to listening And a willingness to just give space. To like, I don't know, it has never been intimidating to me in the sense of like I've never felt any sort of aggressiveness in your questioning. But I've always been very uncomfortable because you ask a question that's very poignant and then just stop. And I'll never forget this I think this is the third or fourth time I've brought it up even on this podcast, but maybe the 20th time I brought it up to you, and I use this as an anchor of this type of question. We were walking together in the Mall of America. We go on this long walk, I'm unpacking the things that I'm like sort of nervous about or afraid of. or whatever. And you looked at me, There's no guile here.

Mondo 9:12

Don't die

Nathan 9:13

no Right? This was not like a teaching moment. You were genuinely, earnestly asking me this question. And you said, you are such a

Mondo 9:20

said, we're such a

Nathan 9:21

and you know you have this about yourself that you know. Do you want to just plan next week's fears now? And like, I almost hit the floor. Like I like, 'cause you just waited. you asked it in a really genuine way, and then you just stopped. And I it, it's, I still get like sort of like goosebumps in the worst way thinking about the question because I felt so fucking stupid, And at the same time, no one had ever been willing to genuinely supportive. So it was like you hit the bruise that was my deepest purplest space, right? this fucking huge blind spot that I had, and you stuck your thumb right on it. And then you were like, "And what would you like- to do?" You know, and just

Mondo 10:17

Yeah,

Nathan 10:18

A- and so I had To choose in that moment of being like, I'm going to step into this, I'm gonna grow, I'm gonna learn to advocate for myself past my own blind spots, my fear, my insecurity. I'm gonna step into this space. or I'm not. But there was no other option, right? You gave me no alternative. And you weren't, you weren't shitting on me. You were genuinely trying to be helpful. I think you were asking me a really genuine question, or at least that's how I've always taken it. and I do think that a mature first in command, if they can, needs to be able to do that. So

Mondo 10:56

true.

Nathan 10:57

long answer telling a story, but my opinion has changed because I got to live that experience of a first in command capable of asking a painful but rea- realistic question And leaving my decision-making of I will step into advocating for myself or not. now I believe that if a first in command can do that, it makes them an excellent first in command

Mondo 11:19

Well, one, man, thank you for that compliment. Yeah, we-- I've heard the story a few times. I actually have it on my website 'cause, like, it really just hits as just a anchor of my character and just me really caring about other humans and you specifically knowing that I know my blind spots and I know you sit in them or you organize around them. And I guess the healthier or happier or less stressed that you are, the more equipped you are to show up to ensure that I don't fall into a canyon. And so, yeah, like as a friend, I want you to be fulfilled. As a business partner, I'm also like, Nathan, come here with your whole self, uh, 'cause that's gonna save my life." So, there's some selfishness in there too, I guess.

Nathan 12:04

Yeah. So I'm gonna turn the question on you, but the other thing I wanna throw out there is We use a phrase, I've mentioned this before. We use the phrase when you're looking for work as a Second, especially as you're approaching a First-in-Command, like our skillset is frankly a little unbelievable. Literally tell you, like, we're experts uh, basically in everything, which is ridiculous, right? Like, it's the most sounding. But it's also not really true. like the the amount of times I've had the question asked to me like, can't you do?" Or, "How old are you?" Because as I unpack like, "Oh, I've done this and I've done this and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," are like, "That's impossible. Like, you'd have to be 100 years old to have done that, that many things or have that broad expertise." And I'm like, "No, I'm, I'm not 40 yet." You know, like, but it's just because I'm so curious and so interested and I'm taking all of these things. So we've developed this phrase here at How To Be Second, which is I'm an expert generalist with a few developed specialties. It's Like my particular specialties are finance like I would consider it strategy or like operating model or installation, right? And at this point, I just

Mondo 13:20

OneIC

Nathan 13:20

I am an expert navigating with First-in-Commands and Seconds the journey of growing alone, going together, and growing together, I understand this better than anyone, um, I posit.

Mondo 13:34

Two

Nathan 13:34

That's taken a really long time and so when I'm advocating for myself to roles. These are some of the things we now are giving to the community of Seconds to be like, is no magic one-shot key, which I think often seconds. are looking for. way we need to advocate for ourselves is usually a multi-step process and a story is involved, and I think we biff that all the time. And So I'm learning I have to get a conversation with a First-in-Command to advocate myself and the work that I do, 'cause frankly my,

Mondo 14:10

my high School sent me a silver medal. And so that's

Nathan 14:14

talking about that on my side those are sort of the combination of answers that I would give. And So now I'm gonna turn it back to you and say, Mondo, how does a Second advocate for themselves to a Visionary type?

Mondo 14:25

Yeah, man, like sitting there listening to you unpack that story. I would say that Second's are able to qualify so many different variables because they want to make sure that they are coming to the table with all the assets needed to make a comprehensive decision that is in alignment with whatever the desired outcome is. As a first in command, I'm just very like singular focused. And so a lot of the times when we have conversations, I'm just really looking for the one thing, right? And so like if it comes to a second advocating to a first, I'm like, "Yo, you have to speak their language." There's just one thing. That person has one goal, one track. There's only one objective and that is like, I don't know, changing the world, right? And so how do you then step in knowing that their desired outcome as a first in command is to change the world and they know if they're healthy that they need you to do that? Just present yourself as such, right? And so you talk about, this first in command who is amazing and hiring a second. They trust Nathan is going to find the perfect person to do this thing together. To have this strong relationship. The first in command recognizes that the only way that they get to that dream outcome is if the two humans are locked in, right? And so I guess the best way to kinda answer this question and probably dovetail into the next question is I would tell a second, what's the most vulnerable thing you can do? Right? Because if you then go do the most vulnerable thing or say the most vulnerable thing or share the most vulnerable secret, that first-in-command is gonna be like, Oh," like, like y- you're ready to step into this relationship like a human being because first-in-commands typically are relational, right? And so like, "Oh, okay, well, well now we're on the same page because now I get to know Nathan Young as Nathan Young, not Nathan Young the second-in-command, the person who's a master generalist and all these other skill sets." Step in as a human because me, Nathan, I, I love your talent and skill set and all those things, but if somebody said, Do you have Nathan Young's back, the man?" I'd be like, "For sure, without a doubt." That's gonna come first and foremost before anything else. Like, "I got your back, dude. Like what do you need from me? Oh, uh, you just built that shed in the back and it's in the wrong place and you need some humans to come lift it up to move it 20 feet to the left? All right, man, like I wish you would've qualified that variable beforehand. But yeah, man, like I'm gonna come help," right? And so I guess, you know, my way of answering that question, it took me a minute to get there, but it's just like, yo, the best way for a Second to advocate for themselves is to be vulnerable with that first-in-command because it gives that first-in-command an opportunity to be, vulnerable back, to open that door for you guys to bridge your relationship even further or like create some deeper roots. Or that first-in-command will biff it, will drop the ball, and it's gonna create some tension, and it's gonna create this division that eventually you two are going to have to work through. But it's better to create that division or that struggle early on so you two can work through it than to wait until later when you think that everything's good and it's this tough time and you finally hit this moment three years in and you're like, "Oh dang, now we're doing hard stuff and we haven't flexed this muscle yet." I, as a First Command, I've never cried on Nathan's shoulder or Nathan has never cried on my shoulder and like yo, when we have to make this tough decision and somebody's crying, you might be looking around like, "Yo, like what's, what's happening," right? Like so, you

Nathan 18:19

We don't

Mondo 18:19

just have... Right. All right. So just having those vulnerable moments I think early is key, and I think even before we came on, I think you said, you said it, like this business stuff is just therapy, right? When you said that I was just like Yo, super facts. Because all these things, all these challenges, all these like uncomfortable moments, all these arguments, all these things are just opportunities for us to like face that deep-rooted black hole that we've been running away from and we will continue to run away from until it's merged with an outcome that we actually want to achieve. And then we're like, "Dang, like we actually gotta go in that room to get to the next room that we wanna go into." But like without that goal or objective, we typically won't go touch that room, so...

Nathan 19:05

well, let me press into this then, because the question I, I was bringing to the conversation was actually what role do you feel like vulnerability plays for seconds and firsts both in their relationship with each other and in their work? And so I feel like you're already sort of like on this track, especially let me ask, like, when, like, when does vulnerability play this role? you know, like, how do you navigate all the... First of all, what role does it play? 'Cause I'm thinking it goes in a box somewhere, right? Which maybe that's my lack of vulnerability showing, I don't know. But, um, just like when? When does it play? So where does it play and when does it play in this, both personally and professionally?

Mondo 19:46

Yeah. that's a great question. I would say If I just start thinking about all the videos that I've ever watched about successful CEOs or entrepreneurs, right? And it's the read this many books, get up at this time, and like hustle, and just all these like very practical things that set the standard or the culture for what the expectation is. And so if you're on this executive team and you know that the first in command gets up and is working out and reading books and doing all these things starting at 3:30 in the morning, you're like, Ooh, that is quite the standard." It's not necessarily your responsibility to match that, but bro, you can't get up at 11:30, right? And get started, right? 'Cause it's like that's too far from the standard. Yes, and I would say the same is true for vulnerability. Like as a first in command, in the beginning, how are you setting the standard? How are you showing up? How are you being vulnerable to the people who is supposed to be the most close-knit, right? And so I think in our C9 group, our first two sessions when we first started, I felt like Laura King did a great job showing up and creating this space of vulnerability, right? Like we had deep conversations Somehow, some way, I think the very first session, but it set the standard for, Oh, this is a different type of group." And so similarly, if you're building an organization, "Oh, this is a different type of organization." The conversations that are had or that I had with the first in command the first couple weeks were so different than any other place that I've been. This is going to be a new experience. And so I think for sure it is the first in command's responsibility to be vulnerable. And what does that look like? I don't know. It's probably different for everyone, but like I'm not going to try to hide my story to create this fake representation that I have it all together.

Nathan 21:51

Hmm.

Mondo 21:52

I'm gonna lead with, Bro, here are all the things that are going wrong. Here are all my blind spots. Here are all the things that I could be better at. And hey, human beings around me, you are all amazing humans that's going to hopefully ensure that I grow in these areas, and please check me on them when I do them, because without you checking me on them, I'm gonna think I'm doing everything right." Right? And so like just creating a space where like people are able to be honest and true and be themselves. And like last thing I'll say about this, because I think one of the reasons why you and I have such a strong relationship is because you will naturally point out, Mondo, that was goofy," or "Let me... Would you like to go revisit what you just said? Because I'm going to challenge this belief that you have," right? And so If I'm vulnerable saying, "Nathan, I need help," and you're like, "Say less," 'cause every time I see an opportunity to help I'm gonna say it out loud, right? Like then that wheel is turning. But I also wanna be able to say Hey Nathan, I appreciate you telling me about myself, but the way you did it, bro, you could've been more tactful in your words." And hopefully you'll be like, "Oh, okay. Bet. Next time I'll move forward with more tact." Hey, even to that point, and I'll, I'll throw it back to you 'cause I'm really curious like how vulnerability plays for you. But early on in our relationship, I remember saying, "Nathan, I don't do swearing." Like it doesn't matter what the scenario is. If we're having a conversation and it's high energy You have enough words that you don't need to drop F-bombs in the conversation because I just feel like that's disrespectful. I feel like, you know, like, like like why? Why couldn't you challenge me in a way that you would challenge Samantha, right? So let's have that same level of, I don't know, just respect for each other. That's true in business relationships for me and just in relationships with friends and cousins and intimate relationships. I'm like, I do not accept you swearing at me." If you do, I just pause the conversation and I say, "We can come back later," because that's my line. So, that was quite the ramble, but I, I guess I'll throw it back to you, man. Like when it comes to vulnerability, how do you show up? Have you grown in that? And are you now coaching other Seconds to be more or less vulnerable in their journey?

Nathan 24:21

My first response is trying to look back and think if we've ever had a disagreement where I swore at you. I'm obviously making the delineation of-- 'cause I swear all the time, and being like, "Have I ever sworn at you? Have we ever had a disagreement where I swore at you?" And in my head, I'm like, well, I obviously am giving myself the benefit of the doubt to be like, "Well, no, of course I haven't." But now I'm, like, reflecting on it. We actually just had a moment not that long ago. I didn't swear. at you. I think I saw something I was asking a question, I was pressing in on something, and you did actually text me back and say, I appreciate that you're pressing

Mondo 24:59

President gets it then and says, This is not the way that I'm gonna be doing

Nathan 25:00

this is not the way that I'm gonna be good at receiving this." And then I remember I went back. It took me days, As it often does. And then I did come back again, and I thought a lot about, okay, if I feel like this is something, that I'm supposed to hand to Mondo, I do need to do it in his language, and I need to honor that. Is this...

Mondo 25:23

Is perhaps an advice of a certain isn't working out to be any good news, right? Might be able to deal with this And then I did. I did reflect on it, And I did come back with stories

Nathan 25:24

Well, I obviously had to ask myself the question, Is it important enough to me to get this? right? Am I-- Do I feel like this? is important enough? And then I did I did reflect on it enough, and then I did come back with, like- And I remember we had that back And forth, but I remember it was a moment for me also to be like you were never questioning the value of what I was trying to communicate. you were just letting me know, like, I don't speak that language. So I'm not, I'm not not receiving it. I'm just... It's a lot of noise

Mondo 25:52

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. No, I actually remember that just like maybe to let the audience in, 'cause I, I remember like generally just from my perspective, you were... In this journey of like transformation for me, making choices that are spirit-led has become very important to me because historically I had made decisions that were just Mondo logic. And so because I've made just Mondo logic or like intuitive choices specifically based on how I thought or what I wanted the outcome to be, and eventually like I landed in a position that I didn't wanna be in, I over-indexed on the other side of that and I was just like, "Okay, I need to like make decisions that are more spirit-led." And so when you were challenging me on something, I was like, Yo, Nathan, is there a biblical story that can help support this thing that you are challenging me to do right now?" Because if you provide like, "Hey, this is similar to Noah being challenged to go build an ark, you know, when nobody else..." And then I'm like, Oh, okay." Like now I can-- It's like a bridge for me to be able to be like, "Okay, what Noah did is tied to what Nathan is trying to... Oh, I can make that story make sense." And I can move forward with confidence because now the story is compelling enough for me to lean in. But kind of to your point, without the story, it's hard for me to make that leap. Where in reverse, you might not need the story. You might be like, "Yo, uh, Chess, yo, fam, like I have the next 17 moves, the next 327 moves organized," and I'm like, "I can't see that story at all, bro." And so it just doesn't hit.

Nathan 27:37

I think And that I should constrain my own response here. I think we've, I think we've rounded this base very well. The other thing I would say is I think more vulnerability is more valuable. than you think it is, I don't mean you. I mean, historically, I have really indexed on like 10 to 90, Personal to professional. And I've been in rooms where we've had the teeter-totter of that fully flipped, it's like it feels like 90% per- personal, 10% professional. Everybody's being vulnerable all the time. It's a very safe space to cry on the floor but we don't have any customers. Like, and I'm a little derisive about that, right? Like even in the way I'm explaining it now. So I do think there's on some level a balance, 'cause at the end of the day. There are some of these structures, where It's like, well, what's the experience of the end user, the customer? And that has to travel through us as people together as an organization. But the person at the end outside of this thing, is the person that we are serving, and so are we actually paying attention to that? And so this balancing act that we do. But I over-indexed on 90% professional, 10% personal. and thought that was the best way to get the best result for the person on the other side And I can say pretty definitively like that work very well. And there were places that

Mondo 29:14

They replace it

Nathan 29:14

in that people wanted that, but it didn't go very well. And learning to dial that more of like a 70/30 and actually maybe sometimes a little more uncomfortably more for me has been only valuable. There is definitely a tipping point, but I

Mondo 29:35

typically,

Nathan 29:35

I'm

Mondo 29:35

but I would say

Nathan 29:35

far

Mondo 29:36

it's so far away

Nathan 29:36

from where the tipping point actually happens that it's,

Mondo 29:39

that

Nathan 29:39

as far as I can tell,

Mondo 29:40

is as far as I can

Nathan 29:41

the answer to me has been, in my lived experiences, more than you think

Mondo 29:46

more than you think.

Nathan 29:46

where you should be headed.

Mondo 29:48

I really like that. I really like the, the more than you think. Yeah.

Nathan 29:52

I'm gonna,

Mondo 29:52

Hmm.

Nathan 29:53

I'm gonna, try to honor everything we've said I feel like I could wax philosophical for a long time. So I'm gonna try to honor everything we've said set it down right here, if that's okay. Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper whether you resonated with the Second or the OneIC in this conversation. How To Be Second is a community of Seconds, people with this identity, and we're also experts at shepherding the journey of first-in-commands and Seconds from growing alone to going together, to growing together. Either way, you should join our email list at howtobesecond.com/email. If you resonated with the Second in this conversation, we have a ton of resources for you, like our community, our book, our guide system for Seconds, our assessment, coaching, meetups, even a professional development platform with job postings from our partner companies. If you resonated with the OneIC, we support your growing alone, going together, and growing together journey with coaching with a natural Second, our matchmaking-not-recruiting service where we help first-in-commands find their right-fit Second, and coaching for already connected first and Seconds to keep you growing together. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support How To Be Second at howtobesecond.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.