What is a dreamer? When is something done?- One Second by How to be Second

Nathan and Mondo explore what it feels like to be the person who sees a future no one else can yet imagine. Mondo shares the weight and responsibility of carrying a vision that feels bigger than himself, while Nathan reflects on the role of translating dreams into reality, building systems, and knowing when to finish, refine, or let go. Along the way, they unpack trust, spiritual growth, and why the strongest partnerships aren't built on thinking alike, but on honoring each other's unique way of seeing the world. 

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This is One Second, a conversation between two people with wildly different identities where we're exploring how we're different while embracing that we're better together. In our vernacular at How to be Second, I am a Second, and my co-host Armando Davison, is what we call a natural 1iC, or a Visionary. Enjoy. 

Transcript

Nathan 0:00

Hey, this is Nathan Young, founder and author of How to Be Second, and this is One Second, a react-style conversation between two people with wildly different identities. A Second, plans, systems, management, gets it done type of person... And what we call a natural 1iC, one of those in the clouds, ideas, visionary, entrepreneur type people. Each person is given a question before the start of the show, we hit record, and we see how two people with different identities react. We explore how we're different while embracing that we're better together. If you're glad this work exists, we need you to support it by either becoming a supporter for $5 at howtobesecond.com/support or shooting over an email to let us know why not. We cannot get better if we don't hear from you. On to the show. All right, Mondo. I'm gonna take this first because we started to unpack this literally just even in the question, and then I went, "No, hold on. That's part of it." And so My question is: do you carry being the person with the idea that no one else can see? And this is a common, like, requirement of the first-in-command role, that you're steering the ship. You're the captain of the ship on some level. You sort of, like, have the furthest thing, but also the biggest idea of why anything would need to be in the first place. And you actually kick that back for a second, and you're like, Does this, does this really fit? Because I'm not necessarily in this space right now." Like, I have lived experience with this, and maybe it's been a minute or, you know. And the thing that I'm so struck by, even in your very momentary reaction, that I would love to hear you unpack is, I think OneICs, so this kind of person, we try to say visionary or... We're always hunting for this person to live in the CEO seat and so I think not only is this a demand of sort of the first-in-command seat, but I actually think this is why the jacket sort of like fits you so naturally. Cause you tend to have a thing that no one else can really see

Mondo 2:01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah

Nathan 2:02

And so I'm curious what it feels like even being the person, let alone the role itself, but just the, lived experience of being like, I have this thing, I have this idea but, like, you often are the person with an idea that other people don't have the ability to perceive, at least for a while

Mondo 2:18

Okay. Okay, let me try to tackle this. And for this segment specifically, I have to change the term simply because it's something that I have been focusing on a lot in my brain. And so audience, you can merge the two if you'd like, OneIC and this term dreamers. And the reason why I had to say dreamers is because it's a term that Many people have challenged me to identify more, right? Like,

Nathan 2:45

Mm-hmm.

Mondo 2:46

me one time, like, What is, what is a dreamer actually?" I know Benji challenged me to, like, find an example of a person in the world who I would consider a dreamer and then, like, follow their story. And last week Literally I walked out of the bathroom and then I put it in my notes. I was like, oh, for me, how I am choosing to define it, a dreamer is someone who believes at the core of their being that they were born to change the world. In what way? Doesn't matter. It can be building the biggest building, it could be influencing social change, it could be becoming a trillionaire, it could be whatever. But like There is just something at their core and they're like, many times I don't know how, but I just know I'm supposed to change the world. And so carrying that, it's like the Olympics, right? And it's like carrying the torch and being like, "I gotta be the one to run and like light it in the beginning to start the Olympics." It is like this,

Nathan 3:42

yeah

Mondo 3:42

this responsibility to like carry this torch and light something and nobody else can carry the torch. There's something about you, and once you light it, then everybody else can see it. And so it's a responsibility, it's an honor. Oftentimes it can turn into a headache because kinda how you frame the question, like nobody else around you can see the thing.

Nathan 4:07

Yeah

Mondo 4:08

It's like blind or hitting each other's blind spots or everybody else around you just like, "I don't fully get it." And they may follow me simply because like they like my spirit or they're like, "Mondo's a good guy, so if he can do this, that would be super dope and an amazing story." But like honestly, like at my core, other humans, whether it's dad or friend or mom or companion or whatever, they come super secondary to this like unquenchable thirst, this thing that's just like if I don't change the world, I haven't accomplished what I was born to do. And so like I'ma stop there for a second because I, I don't know, maybe I'm asking you to respond a certain kinda way, but when I say those things out loud, it just, it hits for me 'cause bro, I just know there's something in the world that like when I'm no longer here, in some book somewhere, whether it's a book that everybody reads or it's a book that don't nobody read, but I changed the world or my micro world or I was a steward in some way that meaningful change happened, like my name or my story has to be part of whatever that experience is, and I, I can't, I can't unfeel that

Nathan 5:21

I don't know what you're talking about literally at all I've, been ready to say that for four straight minutes, just being like, "You are in a land of your own." Like

Mondo 5:33

Oh man. Yo. And, and so, right,

Nathan 5:37

yeah.

Mondo 5:37

it's,

Nathan 5:38

hilarious

Mondo 5:38

it's so... Here's what, here's what's great about that, right? 'Cause we talk about the difference between you and I, and we're like, there's some things that you get to talking about systems and structures in a way to where my eyes gloss over and I'm like, "Bro, I don't, I don't really care what you're saying. I know you believe it and you can see it, and so, like, let's do it." And this seems like that moment where you're like in reverse, same thing. Like, Mondo, I, I got to... Good luck,

Nathan 6:04

I remember there was some podcast, I was talking about finance. This is one of my favorite little short clips that we have. like, talking about, finance, margin targets, equity distributions, whatever, and you literally were like, "Yo, bro, for the last two minutes, I'm sorry, my eyes glazed straight over." And for the last four minutes as you were unpacking that, I went, I'm so inspired and not interested at all." I've never experienced the thing that you're describing, but damn, I'm so glad you're around. And, uh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's just funny to me. Sorry.

Mondo 6:35

Kinda to that point, right? Like, I have to take the Olympic torch far enough and do something, even if there were some, like, other torches to light on the way. Like, I gotta, like, at least get to one of those milestones for a Nathan to be like, Oh, there's something out there? Oh," like I need just enough traction or just enough, something tangible to where you're like, Oh, I could actually build you a car," right? Or, "Oh, "Now that you lit that, you're saying that there's ocean out there too, and you need a boat? Oh, okay, cool." I want you to get to the end of this experience, so like I'll help build the things to support you. But for that dreamer, that relationship doesn't happen, that connective tissue, that trust doesn't happen until that dreamer or that first in command goes far enough independently until they pick up something tangible, or they get enough traction that someone like yourself is just like, I see the Legos now, but I couldn't see them before because it was all dark out there." But now that you've lit up some of the pieces that are there, you're like, "There's definitely more," right?

Nathan 7:45

Yeah. Okay. So is fascinating. I feel like you're starting to understand my brain before I understand my brain. This is fascinating. So I actually had these couple of moments as you were describing it where I was, really following along with you for a second 'cause you were like carrying the Olympic torch, and you wanna light the thing at the end. And so actually You started off by giving me a framework where I could see a journey and an end result. You actually framed it up what I would say, clearly. And, and then I went, I'm inspired by that. I'm inspired by what you're saying. I don't need to carry the torch. I don't need to be the person who lights the thing." But you just handed me something that I can really stand, and like get behind, is that I was like, "Yeah, I could..." And I literally started doing in my head like, "Oh, I'm, I could plot out the journey. I could help make sure that you get taken care of along the way. I could like, w- okay, there a map of destinations? Do we need to do anything in between? Do we need to do handoffs? Do we need to..." Like, I immediately started breaking all that down. But also in my head, I was like, "I don't need to be that person." But I also had this moment because as you were unpacking it, I was like, "Right, but I could be the person who lit the torch, who ran the torch," because in my head, I anchored it to something someone else already needed. The runner is serving this greater thing to make something else happen. And so I was finding myself in your metaphor of like, oh, I'm a person who is doing this thing, and yes, I could be on stage, but like what, where my energy really lies is the fact that I'm gonna accomplish this thing in service of this greater thing. But the more that you unpacked the idea, we left behind that part of the metaphor, you went fully into like, we all have this thing. The dreamer has this, their own version of this thing. All of us have it. And I was like, "Oh, I don't have one of them." I don't have one of those for myself. You're saying there's no Olympic ceremony, there's no thing, and then, and then I realized you actually didn't ever add that into the metaphor. were like, it was your journey,

Mondo 9:51

Yeah, yeah. Yeah

Nathan 9:52

was this huge, bombastic thing that you were doing and like sort of like lighting the way and carrying the... And I went, "Oh, he's not thinking about the same thing that I'm thinking about at all."

Mondo 10:03

In the best way

Nathan 10:04

It-- oh, absolutely in the best way, 'cause you're gonna die on that run, and I am going to make you not die on that run.

Mondo 10:10

Yo, like for the people who are listening, right? I wanna use the word maybe responsibility and trust in each other to where you said, and I've actually loved your words, "Mondo, you are going to die on that journey." And I do believe that as dreamers, if we go far enough, yes, there is a spiritual death that happens. Yes, and to even get to that point or Once I get past that point, one or the other, you're like, "I will ensure that you don't die physically." Right? Like, "There are some things that I am committed to being your partner in this, that all the tools that I have, I am going to support you not dying on my watch." And I'm like, Nathan, I trust you. I trust you won't close your eyes until you know that the right things are in place to the highest capacity, the highest probability of success. You'll make sure that you gave me all the things so I can keep going, and I trust you." And so, like, I'm thinking about now this One Second dynamic, and I'm gonna kinda ask this question back. Like, I'm thinking about this One Second dynamic and the seconds that you're talking about, do you feel like That trust amongst each other is one of the foremost things that have to be established first, or does something else need to happen? I don't know. I just trust you so much that I'm like, "I wanna do this thing. Let's go, and I know you're not gonna let me die." And that might've been a little bit of, of a ramble, but there's just Yeah

Nathan 11:44

I'm gonna answer this question a couple of different ways. I have lots of thoughts popping up in my head. The first one is, I think you're accurate. We've talked about, very recently, I just said how impactful this was, this framing that you gave to me, and you were like, healthy in mind, healthy in body, also healthy in spirit. And I can sure that you're healthy in body to a pretty strong degree. I can help you survive. Right? There's a lot of physical things in the world that I can affect for you, and I can give you space for healthy mind. I-it's your own to do. There's a barrier there, right? Your self is something, the work you have to do for yourself. So like I can travel that journey with you to a certain extent, but I really can't be your guide in that, and I really can't I certainly cannot do the work for you. And the healthy in spirit is wholly your own. And even maybe in that I could give you some space take that, but I don't even know if healthy in spirit really needs just space. Most of the time in healthy in spirit, there is a surrender involved and like I can't, I can't do that for you. Sometimes it hinders when I'm around like I...

Mondo 12:55

Yeah, yeah

Nathan 12:57

You need to sort that out fully on your own. And you actually-- I feel like you anchored to that idea where you were like, "I have to light enough of these on the way beacons before I get to even the ability to know where I'm going." And I just feel this call, and I gotta go that way for a while to even figure out that I could allow someone else on the journey. And so, the first thing. That's, that's my first answer to that is, I think when we go together, 'cause obviously I, I talk about going together and growing together all the time. And my first instinct in this for you and for myself is to go... The physical space is often where I can navigate a car, a boat, a calendar, et cetera. I can take calls so that you can run. The mental space is somewhere I can usually give space. I'm thinking about first or seconds that I coach now, CEOs or second in commands that I coach, where I'm like... I have one guy where literally I was like, "Hey, when we're taking a meeting, close your door." It wasn't for me. It's not like I felt disrespected by that. I didn't at all. But we were trying to navigate, like, I need to help you really actually make yourself unavailable, and by proxy of that, make yourself inaccessible. But you need to do one to get the other one truly. but I couldn't do it for him. I couldn't like show up at his place and close the door, and like I, I

Mondo 14:20

Yeah

Nathan 14:20

handle that. But I could give him space. I've held times on my calendar for people that I'm working with, and the calendar time normally it says like coaching hour, right? then it literally says, "Leave the office at this time." We don't have coaching hour. I'm literally holding space for them to go have mental thing. But I can't do anything spiritually, and I'm thinking about that for myself as well.

Mondo 14:45

I'm just gonna say something to that for a second because... And I think I said this before on the pod, and it may have been accidentally on purpose, but you just talked about being able to support me in body, being able to give me space to navigate my mind 'cause you're taking things off my plate and you're like, "But I don't really feel like there's a lot that you can do on the spirit bucket." And I think that that's true. However, you did plant the mustard seed. And I never will forget when you naturally told me the Saul/Paul story. I remember sitting in my living room when I lived on Kellogg, and the way that you told it was a mustard seed that piqued my interest to go, I've never heard that story before." And I didn't opt into it then, but fast-forward three, four, five years later, as I was out on the journey carrying this torch, it was the story that resonated with me the most. And then, like now reading Paul and just how he's been on these solo missions and being obedient and a slave to Christ and spending time in prison and all these things, it's the most extreme version of being a dreamer and being guided independently. And yeah, I don't wanna be in prison and all those things, but because you gave me that seed before I left, you know, the status quo environment, it grew. And so one, I just wanna like honestly say thank you because it's been a transformative character in the Bible that has really helped shape how I'm supposed to show up and 'cause if I look at Jesus as the perfect being, I can't hit that. And then it's like, all right, well, one tier below, Paul is a great example, and I'm like, "That's a lot, too," but right? Like, I'm able to kinda like contrast myself and my behaviors and stuff. And so, yeah, man, like you gave that to me and it was key. And so for any second-in-commands who has a relationship with a dreamer-type first, if you are well-read or you got this Bible verse or like there's just something about your faith that like anchors you, don't keep it to yourself. Share it aloud just in case it's something that your first-in-command needs later when they go on this dream journey, and it's gonna save their life, so.

Nathan 17:10

I want to push this, I want to set this down. I have to say this other thing Because I feel like you exemplified something that I take a lot of pride in, so, thank you. And also, uh, you basically said, "Nathan, because you have done the spiritual work for yourself-" You showed up with some... Like, there, you're right. I couldn't do anything except show up having done the work on my own of my spirit. And so it was just ready and available as a story. I had that baked into my brain. I spend time focused on my spiritual fitness. And, so I had it ready. I didn't even think about it. I just had it ready. And also you said, "And then it had to grow in you," like then it was yours to take from there. So being spiritually fit means that's the only way you can serve the other person is by the work of self. So anyway, That's awesome. That's so awesome.

Mondo 18:05

That's spot on facts, man. And, Again, like I know you just said this, but I want the listener to like really hear the part that he just said, like that self-development and growth in self, mind, body, spirit. Also making sure you don't forget the spirit piece is part of you reaching the finish line or being done, right? And that's kinda gonna dovetail into this second part of our conversation, which is being done or complete or moving on to something else because as a first-in-command, and most people look at our archetype, we're like, "We got a good idea. We got a great idea. We're gonna go do this thing." And then we go do this thing and we get like 73%, and around that time our focus starts to wander. We start to desire something else that is a new shiny object, and we often leave or start moving towards this next thing before we actually complete, right, the actual task that we set out to do. And sometimes it's to our demise. Other times maybe it is actually what we're supposed to do, depending on like what's happening in the world and who your partner is. But the reason why I bring this up is because you actually gave me the language close the loop. When we were building some systems, you were like, "Oh, this is a good system." You were like, "But the loop isn't closed." Like you have to create this flywheel so it can kinda work on its own. So as a second-in-command who is often focused on closing the loop and finishing things that are started, is it challenging? Is it easy? Did you have to like find some new tools to like work with first-in-commands who always wanna go and move on quick when you're like, "We're not done. We have to close the loop. We have to finish." Or are you like, I know at 73% he's gonna start to wander off, and my responsibility in the second seat is to close this loop and take it and allow him to go find the next thing or allow her to go find the next thing." So just help me understand how you see it from your spot when that transition starts to happen.

Nathan 20:13

This has been so hard. Not has been. This has been so hard, I mean, like even up to this morning, and it continues to be really difficult. Here are some of the ways I've navigated it I'm gonna split the stories. how I did this poorly. I like to start with here's how I did this poorly, 'cause I think lots of people like to start with here's the answer, here's how to do this really well. And I'm like, the lived experience of having fucked this up in a spectacular way, is what led me on the journey of Is there a way we can do this better together, right? So a way that I spectacularly messed this up, I remember I was working construction in my early 20s. I ended up effectively taking on the GM title, for the company. It was a small company. But we did a lot of good work. We were working all over the state of Indiana, and we were in Kentucky, and I really liked my work in construction. I did that for several years. I was both part of and then not part of a union, like a trade union. And over the course of that, my first in command, I don't think they were, a dreamer person like what you're describing, right? I don't think that was their natural human setup. But of course, the first in command role, the CEO title, that jacket, it demands you sort of have the idea of where you're supposed to be going. And, so they did, and I was the person who made sure the work got done. And we worked with stone, so There was no, "You're 73% finished." There was, "You have started, you are done." It was a very clear... And, but what we didn't have that in was the actual navigation of the company. Well, when I started there, there was this, like, bombastic explosive growth that my CEO wanted. And then years into that, they really did go sideways and say, "I don't want the stress of that." Like, "We've done it. We've grown." I think when I started, we were a single crew of three people, just, like, just getting started in the world of that. then by the time two years had passed, we were 20 people, multiple locations. We were working all over the state again. I was traveling to different work sites, et cetera. And then my CEO was basically like, What a fucking headache. I don't like my life. isn't satisfying me as a human being. Like, I don't like the way that my life is working, and I don't want this. And so I, what I want is, He used this phrase, "the most ninja crew ever." And he started cutting people. He started taking on less jobs. He started slowing down our sales. And when I say started, I mean, like, over the course of 90 days, we went whoop. And I, was, in crisis, and I was on the phone with him every day anyway. But I also was like, "What's happening? What are we doing?" At first I was curious, but then as the time went on, as the weeks went on and it continued this trend, I was like, "We are failing. We are actively failing." And I was still listening from him two years ago to try to help him get to the same destination, and I felt like that was my job. And so we started really fighting, I was still trying to get to one place, which to be fair, is what inspired me in the first place. hadn't brought me along to the new idea. He had changed where he wanted to go, and he didn't say, Are you in?" He just changed it, and I worked for him, so he just was like, "Of course you're just gonna help me get done whatever it is that I wanna get done." Very common is, in my experience for first in command CEOs, whatever. And, so He didn't check to see if I was still interested in charting that journey. I mean, we had some, like, knockout fights. Not physically, but, like, we yelled at each other, really. And I did eventually... I don't-- that I resigned/he fired me basically he would've fired me probably the next day, but I resigned. You know? Like, "You can't fire me, I quit." And so that's really an anchor to here is a time when I fully got caught in the first plot because I needed to get that done. I couldn't handle the idea that I had failed. I was just so desperate to finish the mission. And I took it as a failure for several years. Recently, in the last Five years? I guess five years is now recently. The older you get, the longer recently is. Recently, in the last couple of years, I really have leaned into this idea of done looks like when it has served you and I have talked about, flags in the sand, where, like, we're gonna go in that direction, but we're moving in that direction towards the dream, and what we don't have is this certainty. So yes, it's my job to, map out the directions in physical space, right? But as you are taking your mental time and maybe getting healthy spiritually or maybe not, going to-- the dream is gonna evolve.

Mondo 25:03

Yeah

Nathan 25:04

going to gain clarity. And as you gain clarity, it means that often the certainty is the thing that gets shaken up, 'cause the clarity is so strong. And I have navigated a lot more like... First of all, we can only go as fast as you can, right? You're the rocket booster. I am the rocket. I guide. You tend to be the person who lifts us off from the planet. You have the energy to defy gravity. I have all of the energy in the world to steer a thing that can explode so hard it can defy gravity. And, I've learned is, over the last several years, and I've put a lot of physical structures in place for this, to go, that thing that I thought was the whole dream was, the dream, but there's new clarity, and this thing that I was held so tightly to no longer serves to get us closer to the dream. So even though it's only 70% done, I can let it go. It's okay to let it go. It's okay to let things go unfinished. What I will say is, understanding the difference between this person has ADHD and 20 ideas a day and they forgot what they said yesterday, and this thing no longer serves, bringing a distinguishing eye to like, no, that thing has to get done all the way. your taxes. Like, what something like that looks like versus something like what can just be set down and actually doesn't have world consequences has now become my new, I would say that's the journey I'm on, is to bring more and more clarity for myself on how to divide and spec and understand those two things. 'Cause sometimes those things are like taxes, where it's like, "Oh no, the world will act upon us if this idea is not finished. We must. It's onboarding the employee. It's finishing changing the tire. Like, we literally cannot continue on.

Mondo 27:03

I have a question. And I'ma use your language, I wanna push in a little bit on this because I heard How you felt sitting in the second seat behind a first in command Who says, "This is done in my head, and now I wanna do other," versus someone who might think, This is done in my head, and now I wanna layer on top of what is already done." And the reason why I'm posing this question to you is 'cause now I kinda wanna re-ask it. Do you see yourself as the layering on top type of leader or person, given when you started the journey to write the book "How to Be Second," you had an idea on what was done, and it seems like you're now layering on top of what was already done. Is there a new done? Like, how do you now find yourself navigating, like, what is done in your journey?

Nathan 27:59

Hey, this is a thing that I struggle with literally every single day, 'cause I'm the first in command at How To Be Second, and I often feel like the pressure of that is to be thinking of the next thing, right, to approximate a dreamer to a certain extent. a part of the way that I do that is by getting in this space with you and drawing in this energy and getting ideas. But I am not this person. Like, I have a ceiling, and that's been very apparent to me the whole time, but more and more as I have done the spiritual work of being like, "I'm cool with who I am." I think the universe is too. Like, God made me the way He made me on purpose, and it's really good. And I'm not an ocelot, and that's okay. Like,

Mondo 28:41

I don't know what a ocelot is, but go ahead

Nathan 28:44

Like, I've never needed to be that. I don't know why I need to be this other kind of person.

Mondo 28:50

Got it.

Nathan 28:50

whatever, right?

Mondo 28:51

Yeah

Nathan 28:52

But I do need to, be the person sort of carrying the next idea. So I have that, which is a pressure in my body, and I also, I have a deep well of energy for making something, for doing something, but then seeing it through to what I call an 11 out of 10. That's what I actually wanna spend most of my time on. I don't like to leave a thing until it is so polished it sets a new bar. And I'm often drawn to dreamers who want to do something... I mean, this is what attracted me to your idea of schools originally. you weren't saying, "I want something new, wholly new in the world." You were saying, "I want something that's an 11 out of 10 experience for something that we should have figured out a long time ago, and I have a way to get us there." And I was like, "I want to be part of that." Right? I have almost infinite energy for, Okay, we, one, done. Layer two, done. Layer three, done." And I'll keep doing that until we get to 114 layers, we get to go, "We are the best. We set a new standard for how good this is, this experience." And I have insane energy for that. So I would actually say, I want to get to done every time. I want to get to 100% each time, because I'm like, "No, no, no. But then we have version 1.1, and 1.2, and 1.3, and 1.4, and 1.5, and you're not gonna believe what version 49 looks like." But it's gonna take seven years. So you're cool with that, right?

Mondo 30:21

Oh my goodness. Oh man. Yeah, I'm cool with it as long as you're gonna take it by the helm, 'cause I... What? If you're like, "What do we..." Exactly. Exactly. That's where the balance is, right? I'm like, "Nathan, let's go there." And you're like, "Uh, there are 493.7 steps to get there." And I'm like, "Jeez, as long as you got them."

Nathan 30:42

I didn't even chart the first destination. It's, getting to the first destination and then upgrading the thing, and then going to the next one, and then going to the n- and then going... So that, that has been my, struggle with done personally, is that I have to navigate personally between this thing that I'm not natural at. I'm competent enough. I've developed skill in this thing of, like, having the next idea. I'm pitching the next round of the fall slate of HDB2, shows right now. So Samantha is our producer, and I have, my five or six show ideas. And so, I'm pitching pilots right now. Like, "Okay, let's put this pilot

Mondo 31:25

Okay

Nathan 31:25

is the fall slate of programming for HDB2." We have a new show that's releasing in, like, two weeks that's gonna take over the Ask Nathan show for a season, right?

Mondo 31:34

Love it

Nathan 31:35

so I love this, but, I feel like I need to do that. I had another idea for a show just the other day, I feel like when I have that new idea, again, 'cause I don't have 20 ideas a day. I have 20 ideas, a month. And so I had one for a new show and I was like, "Oh, we should start right now. I should put together the thing. I should put together the pilot for this this weekend." I actually texted, like, eight, what I would consider dreamers, And was like, "This is the idea. What should the name be?" Like, I was ready to put together graphics. I was ready to... And Samantha came back to me and was like, "Hey, we need to honor the things we're doing because we haven't actually gotten them to the level of awesome they could be at." And I was like, "Well, I'm desperate to up-level what we have," but I feel the need, the pressure of having the new idea. And frankly, I just don't have that many, so any time I have one I'm like, "Whoa, yep, done." Like

Mondo 32:30

Let me tell you what was so powerful about that statement is because you've spent time as a natural TwoIC sitting in the first seat, one, you recognize the challenges that come with that and where your capacity is, but also you recognize kinda like that spirit, that energy, that thing when you're like, "I really wanna do this next thing." And because you have experienced those feelings, you have a different level of empathy when you are now in partnership with the first in command. You're like, "Oh," like I see your eyes light up. I know what that feels like. Like it's one to like get it, but it's another to be like, "Oh yeah, I remember when I had that idea." So even if you have to like curb it or put it on the shelf or whatever, it can't be right now, you have a, a certain tact, a certain way of being able to communicate because you know how much that feels like a baby to a first in command, and you're able to kinda nurture that thing and one, validate and be like, "That is amazing. Oh, we could do this, this, this, and this," and like start layering on top, being like, "But we have to wait until 2027. It will be a thing. I see it with you, but let's set it over here for now." Without having spent time experiencing those things, I would say a second wouldn't have enough reach to like be able to connect to that first in command in a way where they can fully resonate with like where that first in command is in that moment when they have that light bulb moment. And so like just you fulfilling your journey and sitting in the seat and doing all the things is an exercise. It's stretching yourself so at every intersection with your partner, with the duo that you're gonna go on this long journey with, you two can each be like, "I get where you're at. I know how you feel. Let me support you in that." And so that, that's awesome.

Nathan 34:21

Hey, it's Nathan again. If you made it to the end, that's awesome. I have a couple ways you can go deeper whether you resonated with the Second or the OneIC in this conversation. How To Be Second is a community of Seconds, people with this identity, and we're also experts at shepherding the journey of first-in-commands and Seconds from growing alone to going together, to growing together. Either way, you should join our email list at howtobesecond.com/email. If you resonated with the Second in this conversation, we have a ton of resources for you, like our community, our book, our guide system for Seconds, our assessment, coaching, meetups, even a professional development platform with job postings from our partner companies. If you resonated with the OneIC, we support your growing alone, going together, and growing together journey with coaching with a natural Second, our matchmaking-not-recruiting service where we help first-in-commands find their right-fit Second, and coaching for already connected first and Seconds to keep you growing together. Finally, if you're inspired by what we're doing here, you can support How To Be Second at howtobesecond.com/support. Thanks again. I'm looking forward to our next conversation.