Hardy Sidhu Founder & CEO. From Survival To Design Leadership.

Start with the stereotype: tidy CV, tidy promotions, tidy portfolio. Now scrap it. Hardy’s journey begins in a young offenders’ institution with no GCSEs and no map, then arcs through late-night self-teaching, messy first sites, a bold UX leap, and leadership roles that reframed “product” from deliverables to durable partnerships. What looks like luck is actually iteration—learning fast, moving on, and keeping the energy high.

We talk about the moment titles and big pay in the US stopped feeling like progress, and why that emptiness became a compass. Hardy built Format 3 on a simple promise: great people, great work, great time. The result isn’t a slogan; it’s client feedback about unmatched energy and a culture that protects humanity while shipping at pace. Recognition came—national awards and industry lists—but the deeper win is impact that outlives the founder: in-house incubators, support for visionary ideas, and plans for a design school in Punjab to raise the craft where tech has already surged.

Heritage threads through everything. Oneness isn’t a poster—it’s how work and life meet. We get honest about South Asian visibility in tech and design, what the Black creative community models so well, and why organisation matters as much as talent. Off the mic, Hardy leans into seva, mentorship, and family, teaching Punjabi to his child and unlearning the gaps school left behind. The takeaway is clear: visibility is accountability, and community lifts when we show up with our full selves.

On AI, we cut through the noise. Tools amplify; they don’t give you a reason to exist. Expect a dot-com-style correction as hype burns off and shallow startups fade. What endures are teams that weave empathy, strategy, and craft into products people love. Design is not dead—it’s the differentiator when everyone has the same tech. Younger makers have unprecedented tools; the bar is still purpose, delight, and credibility.

If you’re searching for purpose, we offer a reset: stop sprinting toward a finish line. Be fully yourself and let purpose arise from the work, the people beside you, and the culture you choose to build. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs the nudge, and leave a review with the moment that shifted your thinking.

Transcript

Welcome And Hardy’s Unconventional Start

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay, so today, seriously, um this took a little while getting this together, but incredibly pleased that we managed to get Mr. Hardy Siddhur uh into Alba. So you guys better better pay attention because this young man this young man is uh definitely moving and shaking and going places and it is just brilliant, brilliant to see. So Hardy, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Good, doing good, doing good, Joel. Um great to be here. A pleasure to be on a call with you. I think as much as you want to say good stuff about me, I mean it's an honor for me to be on a conversation with you. I think I've taken a lot of wisdom and inspiration from what you've done in your career and only following on on your path and journey that you've set out as well for us or younger people to go ahead on with.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

That's very, very, very kind. Um yeah, thank you. Um right, so how how did you get into the wonderful world that you occupy right now? What what what was the thing that kind of got you thinking, you know what? I want to do that.

From Young Offender To First Web Gigs

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Man, I'll be honest with you. Um my my journey's been unconventional. I don't have a very conventional journey like like most in the design world where I come from university, end up in jobs, and always been creative. I never knew I was creative. I never knew I I was gonna end up in this. It kind of started from a that weird journey of being being a young young man. I was about, I think I was about 15, I ended up at young offenders with like no GCSEs, no A levels. You end up in a situation where coming from that very working class background, you don't really know what to do. Everyone's in survival, right? And you're you're in a situation where no one's there to teach you anything, no one's there to like guide you because everyone that's around you is in that survival mode. Your parents were in the survival mode coming out as immigrants, uh, and then you end up in a situation where life can take two courses. You either come out and you continue on that bad path that got you into that situation, or you take come out and you try to make something to elevate yourself and the people around you and make a change to break the mould from what is expected of you. Um and figuring out how I do that has been a wild journey. Um when I when I decided, alright, cool, I'll come out of Young Offenders and I'll I'll do something that I actually enjoy. Because I couldn't go back into education, I had no qualifications at all at that point, I'd missed some GCSEs. Um, and it was either go back into an education system that doesn't fit me, um, because I was quite rebellious, I was quite destructive. Um, but they all said that I have a bit of a brain on me, which I took for granted. I didn't really understand that. Um, but I knew I like to solve problems, and then stupid stupidity of me said, I like to save solve problems. I also had a GCSE in maths. I think the only one I got was like in year nine, let me do it early. So I was like, stupid 15-year-old me says, I like to solve problems, I'm good at maths. Maybe I'll become like a like a coder, like a developer. And from that point, I was like, all right, cool, got out, uh got some books, learned how to code. I thought I was learning programming and all these geeky stuff. More stupidity, I realized later on that I actually learned front-end development and not programming. So I was like, I was like, all right, cool. Yeah, I was like, I was like, well, I'm learning programming now. I mean learning markup, mate. And then from that point, I was like early 15, 16, started like making websites for local communities of a 50 pound, 100 pound a website. Really shitty websites. I mean absolute trash. I've I've made sure to go back through my Google Drives and delete anything that's from that period. Yeah, cringes me out.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

No, you should keep it. You should get it. I've still I've still got original actual RP files, right? Which I did for some call center thing. And I look at it and I just think to myself, big time. What what what kind of like boas is this? Seriously. But for the non-Punjabis listening, it's it's yeah, I'm slapping myself and I'm thinking, what kind of lunacy rubbish? What have you done? So I can relate.

Discovering Design And Early Mentors

UX Leap, Contracting, And Rapid Learning

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah, from that point, I don't learn, all right, cool. I learned how to develop websites, and I learned a little bit about design because I was like, shit, I need to mark make something to invest to make something. And at that point, I was like, all right, cool, designing and developing websites, really shitty ones. And then ended up getting into a gig. Uh, from that gig, I was like a web design developer, and then I was like, actually, this programming thing I don't really like that much. I was like, I like just I like just creating. I like to create. Started figuring out myself, started asking myself, all right, cool. I'm in I'm in a journey that I I chose because I enjoy it. Let's keep on enjoying it and make sure it's something that I enjoy instead of something that I'm sitting in. So from that, I moved on to digital design. Um was not was not capable of doing the job at all, to be honest. Um, the guy that hired me, Jake Lawrence, uh good friend of my but one of my best friends at the moment, is about years, over over, way over a decade ago. He he hired me purely for the fact he asked me in the interview, he goes, where do you see yourself in five years? I said, in your seat. And he goes, the ball's on you to say that to me and the creator director. We don't we we knew that you were you you had to learn a bunch, but but you had the ambition to do it, and then he hired me stupidly. Um but I learned I learned quite I was grinding my ass off to learn that Photoshop, Illustrator, Hungary, yeah, just constantly just staying late, asking, leaching off information and wisdom of like how do you design, what is design? My my mind got opened up to design. I was like, wow, there's so much here to unpack. Um stupid of me as well. I used to say that I didn't have a criminal offense on my um on my job applications where they asked you, do you have any criminal offences? I still did at that point. Uh it wasn't six years before it was wiped. And then they did a check and then they found out that I did. And then, yeah, my buddy Jake, uh, he actually ended up having a fight with the HR and saying not to fire him because he's actually one of the best, and he's probably not gonna stay here long, but he'll he's gonna be a massive asset for the time he's here. So credit to him. If that didn't happen, fuck me, I would not be in this position right now. And I've always said to him, every every milestone I've hit, I've always messaged him back saying, Man, if you didn't step up for me, believe in me, fuck me, none of this would have happened. But I was only there for about seven months again. I was like early in early in my career, I get I kept moving just to just to get an appetite of things. From that digital design role, I kind of figured out it's that's UX stuff. I was like, what's this UX stuff? Psychology and the way people think, this has got me interested. And then I was like, let's let's transition again, let's go to agency now. Let's blag our way into being a UX designer. And then you and everybody else, there's still blaggers out there, let me tell you. I was like, oh fuck it, let's let's go ahead. And next thing I know, I'm a midway UX designer, fucking creating the quacks of things. I was like, but again, it was the grinding. I was doing all the courses online, I was doing all the leaching or wisdom. Then slowly, slowly, then after that, I think that was my last role as a as a permanent for a little while. I was only there again for like six months. Then I ended up in contracting because I was like, let me let me get varied skill sets everywhere. Um let me test my my my my my knowledge in areas with different clients and different industries, teaching off everyone from information and wisdom. It was just everyone became like a guru to me. Everyone that had a bit of knowledge was someone that I could come back to and learn from. And when I stopped learning from them, I moved places. I was like, all right, cool, I got what I need, next place. Proper locust, okay. Yeah, and then at some point ended up in Stockholm for AKQA. Um at that point, I was fairly confident that I knew what to knew what I can do. I was like, yeah, I have the skill sets to do stuff. Um and then that transitioned into me becoming a product design director for AKQA um that some point in Amsterdam and moved into they never agencies weren't doing product at that point, product was a whole new thing. But I had come from a welfare experience being a unicorn at that point, and I knew what product was, I was doing it well with Volvo. Um, and then AKQA, like can you can you set up a whole department for product? Like, what is this product thing? And I was like, Yeah, sure, why not? And I ended up over there setting up a whole initiative and strategy for what product is, how we do product, what is product, what does a product team look like, what does product team look like with our clients? And that really shifted my mentality into understanding what product really is in terms of partnerships between agencies and clients, of how you really accelerate and add value at pace. For me, it gave me a wealthful understanding of how to run a department of a new department, completely a legacy agency. That point kind of led into multiple other points where I was like, all right, cool, I've done my job here, I've raised a team, I've set up this initiative across Europe. Um, I've shown the way how we do product, making shit tons more money in product now. Let me go make myself some more money because at that point I kind of run out of things that make me happy. I was like, I I always five in the uncomfortability of things. Uh when things get comfortable, I I do I'm not optimized. I'm not I'm at prime. And I got comfortable and I was like, okay, cool. I'm comfortable. What's let's see where I can get more uncomfortable. Let's find things that make me happy. So I was still quite young at that point. I was like, oh fuck it, let's go see if money makes me happy. Then we moved to the States, um, did some work as a product director out there for the likes of fantasy. And then at that point, it was making a shit ton of money, doing really easy work, doing getting paid a shit ton, buying all the cars and all the things I wanted, uh coming from a working class background, having a life that I never expected. And then about a year in, I was like, fuck, money doesn't make me happy either. I was like, okay, we trial and tested that. We trial and test. Funny when that happens, right? Yeah. We trial and tested like roles making me happy and be making me like having a senior role will make me happy, money will make me happy. I was like, none of this makes me happy. But I had to go through the cycles growing up from a young man, like understand, like, cool, let's the only way you're gonna realize it's gonna make you happy is by having it. Um and I got to a point, so I was like, what makes me happy is really waking up every morning when blood is rushing to my heart, and I'm really in a point of grind where I'm like doing doing harding work and being with a team that's really just about humanity and having friends and people around you that really join you like a battlefield or campfire. I was like, I tried to do a lot of that at the legacy agencies, but a lot of that was filled by red tape because at the end of the day, someone was pocketing cash and they want to run things how they want to run things. After that, I was like, oh shit, what do we do? Took a couple months off. And I was like, let's just try our own thing. Let's let's flip the model a little bit. Let's go from uh talking about human-centered outputs to human-centered approaches for outputs. And I was like, maybe I can make maybe I can do this, maybe I can run a whole company on this hypothesis. So that's uh what I ended up doing about 14 years into my career, 14 years into my career, I set up format three, um, which I've been running for the last three years. That's really centered around great people doing great work, having a great time. And it's a simple philosophy, it's a simple hypothesis that I validated the first year.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Now we're in the third year of just creating great stuff, being real thinkers, and having a great time dealing with people that we want to deal with and partner with.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

It's not by accident, I have to say. I mean listening to how you are articulating your journey from West London Massive, uh and the challenges that you clearly have had and how you have bounced, but it's not a random bounce. There's there's method in that. It's iterative, it's positive, but fundamentally again, just listening to your your your wisdom. This this is people, process and technology in action. Um and I think the tenants, if anyone's listening to this, uh people first. You you you have to be people first. That's that's that's very, very cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah, 100%. I think from from our background of things, well, we've we've gone through shifts as a Punjabi community as well, right? We've gone from a very community heavy led people back in Punjab before before colonialism. After colonialism, it's been a situation of divide people getting divided. People got shipped, left, fight, and centre, people going to survival. And then when by the time our grandparents came over, it was very much come over with a pound, come over with survival. They had their still community over here in London, but then over time it's kind of separated. And I was like, why does it have to be like that? Why does everything have to be divided? Why does one have to be a professional without being a person first? Why do people even separate life from work balance? It's like everything is one. That's one of our teachings that we've had since kids, right? That oneness is everything. And I think that's the same philosophy that I've applied to just every single angle and perspective in my journey as well. Just everything is connected, everything is one.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah. I think I mentioned it previously on one of the episodes, and Van Gelis, absolute genius. One of my mentors, uh, from a music perspective, and that then leached into what I do in the design space and technology space as well. Everything is interconnected. Everything, every and the thing his quote was everything is music. Yeah. Boil that down, everything is frequency. Um it's it's it's easy when we speak about it. Why do you think it's so difficult, generally speaking, um to actually execute that?

Building Product At AKQA And Leading Teams

SPEAKER_00 15:21

I think we don't slow down the noise. I think the noise sometimes overcomplicates things. I think we get lost in the noise. Um it's very easy to get distracted, it's very easy to give up, it's very easy to go down a different path, and it's very easy to not focus on what matters in the noise. Uh I don't think enough of us slow down. Um I think from from a people perspective, we don't you come back to a matter of like that analogy of people don't even look up anymore. People don't even look in anymore. Like we're everything we do in our industry at the moment as well is always output facing. It's always the user, it's always the world, it's always the thing, it's always like the AI hype. It's never a self-reflection. It's never a point of looking in. I think well, how can we ever be a part of what's out if we can't be in?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

You need to understand self, you need to understand that base. Yeah. Nah, 100%. 100%. You you've already started speaking about your heritage. Yeah. For anyone who's missed it, Punjabi, right? Um, very, very proud, I have to say, looking at it from um the outside. I mean the one time we did meet up, um, and thank you for that. Because I know how stupid busy you are.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Uh it was I I've said to you before, everyone can make time for everyone, man.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Well, thank you. Thank you for making time, and yeah, that's that. So um it's very, very important to you, your Punjabi heritage. Um, one thing that, you know, when folks ask me, okay, Joel, man, seriously, another podcast? Who needs another podcast? Uh and for me, I suddenly, suddenly thought to myself, why? I I don't see people, I don't hear people, um, I don't have that energy that I used to have when I was doing my music, you know, just uh bumming around with some really famous people in the old school, Apna Sanged, Hira, all of that, Kala Prithna, all of those when I was just farting about back in the day. And where are these Punjabi people? Where are they? And you know, and and doing Tabai is like it's in it's an opportunity. I mean, we had um Baljeet Singh, and now you, and there will be more, um, because I think for whatever reason, um not just Punjabi, but South Asian, uh South Asian rather, if you you know want to broaden it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Why why are we so invisible? I think we've fallen into our own silos, man. I think it's very easy for us to just crack on and it's that part of that survival that's still in us where we just keep doing uh without connecting back out or representing who we are. Um there's many great there's a lot of great talent within the creative industry that is Punjabi. But they never shout about the as the the heritage about it either. They won't ever tie back anything back to the ancestral roots either. Um, and I think one thing that I've I've been reflecting on recently is how well the black community has done that with the arts and the film and the music. Um they have done a phenomenal job of connecting back to their roots and being proud of their roots as well. I think there's there's an element of where where especially like Sikh Punjabis came over to UK, they they try to just blend in too much, which is I'm all for um adapting into a new culture, but also not forgetting your culture as well. I think a lot of that has just become and then the part of that also is people have forgotten their roots, like the younger generations, the newer generations, they don't they're not taught what their roots are, what who they are. Um even for me sitting on this call, right? I'm introduced and I'm referenced as Hardy, but it's hardeep. It's uh it's it's very easy to for me to even blend in sometimes. Um and that can without us being being connected and without us voicing who we are and why we are and how we're here, I think it's easy for us to just go invisible at the end.

Chasing Money In The US And Realising It’s Not Purpose

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Hmm. That's an interesting point, actually. I mean you you are still known as Hardy, right? The marketing aspect of it, the the visibility aspect of it. Uh are you suggesting that that's gonna change?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

One day it will change. Um I I I I already I tried I try to look far enough in that in the perspective of journey as well. Like obviously from the times of good Gorbansing, why he also mentioned not to use nicknames and to be proud of your full name. Um and that time will come when my journey with Siki also progresses as well. Um there will come a time where my hair does grow, uh my but my case will grow and my name will become complete again. Um I've used Hardy up to this point because I'm in that transitional phase as well. When the that transition becomes a little bit more complete, my name will also come more complete.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

No, 100%. But fundamentally, I think it's it's not just it that's one aspect, right? I think what we do as human beings, uh that is what resonates. That is what really, really needs um to be visible because visibility is accountability. Yep. Um, you know, and I'm I'm super, super pleased that I see more brown faces, I see more South Asians, Punjabis, you know, um 10, 15 years ago, people were laughing at me, laughing to my face. Why why are you so interested in India? No one's gonna be hiring anybody in India, and then Great Big Energy Company decides it wants to put a a dent in in the Indian subcontinent by you know having a footprint there and folks were actually apologizing on my behalf, they were apologizing to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

I I believe uh the one thing I've been trying to do recently as well is just if I see someone doing well that looks looks flatable, like with South Asian, Brown um from our community. I just even if I'm not connected with them, I I'll make sure I connect with them. I'll make sure to say, well done, man. Like keep up, like just I'll be I'll give you whatever strength you need, I'll do whatever savour you need to help you to do whatever you want to do. But a great job that you're doing. Just give that bit of credibility back and acknowledgement that people are trying, and people are trying to get more that that diverse Punjabi Indian background into things that are not normally in things.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

For sure. I mean, don't want to take away from you know what we've actually achieved as a community because I think um it's it's pretty bloody amazing. Um, you know, when you look at families who came over in the 50s and early 60s and experienced all of that tragic racism, um which unfortunately is still evident, uh and to be able to thrive, to to take those characteristics of perseverance and diligence and graft and just crack on. Um that's what we've been doing.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

And it's it's um I I've always said that we should be as this generation in in the Western world as well, we should be using that and utilizing that as a step up. Don't waste, don't waste, don't waste it. They put the grind and they've done the hard bit, man. They came over with a pound, they had nothing. We have we have a bit of a playing field, use it. Don't don't let it go, don't let it slip.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

For sure. So I mean what besides the work, obviously. Uh what are the things that you involved with? Besides the work? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Do you have time? Huh? Do you have time? Uh I got I got time. I think I've been making time. I think it's been important for me to have a life that's outside of work as well. Uh it's quite important.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

What does what does Haley do for fun then?

Founding Format 3 And People-First Culture

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Uh well, I used to have fun. Now I got married recently. So that's uh fun as fun is gone. Um but I've I'm I'm enjoying settling into more being more of a family man, and with with that has come a lot of enjoyments that I never thought are fine. Enjoyments, like I've become I've I've always been looking for teachers and gurus in my lifetime, right? And now I want to my own child. I like making I enjoy the the sitting down and learning, teaching him Punjabi how to read and write, I've been teaching him how to little things. Like I personally enjoy a bit of farming, I like growing my own vegetables and fruit, like stuff like that. Um that has just been carried on for my own mother and my granddad, or like grow your own vegetables and fruits and stuff like that. So I enjoy that kind of stuff. I think for me personally, I'm a I'm a big ad I'm a big reader. I like to study. I'm um like that well that's that's ancestral as all, right? Translating to being a learner. Yeah. I I like to learn about philosophies, arts, and spirituality. I'm I'm big in big in the knowing and the understanding of what what education we've missed out on. Yeah and learning how to fill those gaps. And that's that's been my biggest pastime like recently. Just learning where the where the gaps in my knowledge of who we were, what we were, and learning about history, like all of it. Um I tied down into that quite a lot, and then that's again reflecting back into what I'm teaching my kid. Um that's been quite enjoyable, really. Um, making sure that I keep leveling up the generations as we go on, instead of just letting it be a stale player. Um fun wise, um, I mean, even for me personally, man, I've been getting away from all the toxic toxic stuff that our community like community can favor sometimes, like the drinking and the partying and stuff like that. Like that's all that's all come to an end recently as well. Like, not an end, but a much more sustainable approach to life. Um, and I'm recently I've been outside of well inside outside of work, I've just been connecting with people that can use my help. Um, where I can be favorable. Um, it's not about money to me, it's not about profits to me, it's about where can I give my savour? Um, I have skill sets, I have knowledge, I have wisdom, where can that savor go? And that's I wouldn't it's uh it's pretty fun for me. I mean, looking back, and when you help someone, um you've had you've seen someone else's success, it kind of gives me a little boost in life that makes me feel good. Uh but without sounding selfish, like egotistic, like selfish in the sense of how I feel, but it's just something that I enjoy giving back out. Uh that's what I've been doing mostly recently. Just trying to get involved in more projects, trying to get involved in more things that are happening. I think I've had a chaotic three years starting and running an agency. Uh getting to a point now where I have a great leadership team, I have a great team behind me at Format 3 where I can now go off and start seeing where else I can be of favour.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

I mean, besides everything, what what also is quite evident is um the modesty. It's it's it's about the work, it's about the graft. Um, but you you've actually been recognized, yeah, within our space. You want to talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Um kind of recognition. I don't like talking too much about my own. I know, I know, that's why I brought it up. Yeah, well, I always say recognition is just pi bullshit, right? Um marketing. Come on, come on, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I mean, young, young, whatever it was of of the year, and um the the the brilliant work that you know your agency, yeah. It's your agency.

Heritage, Oneness, And Community Visibility

SPEAKER_00 27:53

I wouldn't say it's mine. I would. Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to transition that into an employee-owned agency sooner as well. So that'll be that'll be theirs. Well, from the recognition side of things, obviously we've done great work, and that's not that's down to me, right? That's down to the entire team at Format 3. Where we recently won this year, it was a British Business Bank Startup of the Year award. So recognised as one of the best startups in Britain. The one, best one. That was nice, got to wear tugs, got to pick up an award, um, and get hammered with the team. So that's quite fun. Um, I've been recognised for being part of the Bima 100 this year. Um, we've been shortlisted for another um what was it, the Young Entrepreneurial Award of Britain, uh coming up in November. Uh, we've also been featured in a book that's coming out next year for 325 years of UK governance and innovation. Um so we've been featured a part of uh the top one of the top leaders and innovators happening within the UK. So there's been there's been recognition. Um, but again, it's it's a proud moment for me just to have that Suddu name as well across those things. Um people up there can look at it and be like, that's one of ours, man. That's ours. And I've always said it's yours. It's just the point of to show the next generation, everyone else in our community that we can do it, we can do things.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

We can do things, but I think it's important from a personal perspective because this took me such a long, long, long time, and I'm still learning it. Um, besides the graft and you know, building something and making it a success uh and then speaking about it and not about you. But I think it's important that we do take a little bit of time, not too much time, um, but a little bit of time to acknowledge those successes. Because, like it or not, we live in an ecosystem where everything is run on social, literally, um, and the eyes and ears are driving emotional. ambitions and ambitions. And like you've rightly said, there are so many opportunities for evangelizing. And I love the fact that there are so many, for example, young South Asians now coming through playing football, getting representation. And that's happening more so also within the design and technology spaces. It's incredible. But I I I genuinely believe that we as a community don't have that organization and the governance for that organization well, you know, um that the black community have. Yeah. And I I definitely want to try and contribute to something. And ABA's one of them, right? It's it's one of those those vehicles where we can actually have a bait and give folks an opportunity to say well you know what?

SPEAKER_02 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

We're not just the quiet people in the corner who who deliver awesomeness. Yeah. We we can have a bit of a melee as well once in a while. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

I mean last last week there was an event I attend I attended briefly as well, the Black Tech Fest. Brilliant showcase of things. It's like that really got my eyes open. I was like these guys have organized and been running this event for years showcasing their talent as a commute as a community. I think it's I think it's a brilliant thing. I think that but it comes down to that governance you said a bit of that structural organization that we're missing. I think I've even I've tried to do similar I've tried to do little things and pieces where I come into like even we've done executive like dinners and roundtables and I've I've always classed them as the bars like it's a dud bar come in this is not a place of just relating some of that ancestral ways of doing things back into the things that we do at the moment hopefully that will start dragging some attention and attraction back in and people will start seeing ourselves differently.

Why We Struggle To Slow Down And Look Inward

SPEAKER_01 32:10

No 100% I mean it's it's amazing that someone like yourself is is visible. Yeah and the the forthrightness within which you speak about your journey speak about your way of doing things that there's there is still an originality about what what it is that you do. There has to be I mean I'm just me I I can't be anything else so in in in this place that everyone's aspiring to be like I want to be like so and so I want to be like so and so it's so bloody awesome to hear someone in your position to say yeah this is me. This is what I've been doing I've ended up in this space I've you know basically from what I've been listening to it's been very very agile yeah you've iterated you've you've you've you've tried and tested things okay done like that I like this this is working that isn't working your purpose and success criteria have been really really honed um you've been actually quite diligent um and to get success whatever that looks like whether that's achieving technical skills whether that's getting um financial uplift or whether that's you know maybe a little bit of visibility but fundamentally it's it's a journey of discovery and and and that's really really inspiring yeah I think a lot of us a lot of people they they go through journeys where they're trying to seek purpose and I think they're rushing towards purpose.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

I've all I've I've been thinking that the universe is not in a rush why are you rushing? Why are you finding why why are you why why are we trying to seek find a specific purpose? Why are we trying to why don't we just be us that is our purpose is just to be us and just welcome whatever brings brings up that you get brought on in the journey. That is profound that that is profound slow down take a breath breathe yeah I I got asked recently on another podcast earlier this week if you'd had 60 minutes with the likes of like a Steve Jobs or Sam Altman or someone or 60 minutes with yourself with myself what I want 60 minutes with them for this is so nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

It genuinely is um yeah that's it I I got I got nothing more around that space at all that that just says it all that's just yeah here it is deal with it professionally politely this is the thing yeah 100% even even with our business we've we've taken that kind of same approach right of let's just be us we've we've had times to experiment do we get a little bit more cooperative do we need do we appeal a little bit to more enterprises none of it's worked it's always come back to what works for us is our energy and every client piece or every feedback we've had from clients and prospects we won has always been your guys' energy it's unmatched it's just war it's just well that's what happens when you get the right people together doing the right things yeah um make it sound easy it's it's it's not easy right uh you learn the hard way um but eventually you will get there you you figure out who the ones that matter are and then you will just do good work it's people process and technology the end um and that's that's great what's next what is next what is next um there's a ton of things there's a ton of things I still want to do I'm still young well it depends who you ask really you ask me it's one it's a couple of things you ask my wife it's a days yeah some things never change right I know um but but from from my from my perspective it's a lot more how do I how do I aid and be not not the one that does it all but the one that uh contributes more to those communities being built that we need how do we aid aid a bit more people coming together um we've tr from a business perspective we're looking at uh uh we're doing more uh incubators that are funded by us as well so we can support visionary ideas um through the work that we do and not just rely on people paying us um we're looking at different initiatives that we can take up so um we're we're looking at the ways that we can set up a school in Punjab as well uh in the next coming years where we can actually teach a high level of design capability out in India as well.

South Asian Representation And Organising Power

SPEAKER_00 37:03

India's been very great with technology but it's kinda still like staggering behind in times of design um and the excellence of design and craft so with the capital and and the and the wealth established from these businesses we're looking to actually go ahead and set up something that can be go on further than me. I'm looking for things that will go past just me things that will go on past what I'm known for and my recognition I want I want this to become more of an avalanche of of things to spire out of um I never want the situation of it just being Hardy's Hardy's things um I want it to be he was the maybe the catalyst for it that's it um I take that reference even from Gudgorbensing of when he set up the culture he gave it to the culture the culture is everything it's not good Gorbensing it's the culture um and that is exactly where I want to position myself into a position where I can maybe work on a catalyst work.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Definitely definitely so on that big topic it's been a big topic for quite some time this this little kind of I don't know upstart called artificial intelligence. What's that?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah what's what's your take on that how how I mean okay that that's too broad a question right I I can't look turn a page slide left right up down whatever um without seeing someone's views or okay design is dead right or this thing is dead and no one's gonna have a job right what's your take on that aspect I think there's a lot of again noise and hype in AI at the moment it's just people know what everyone's interested in they keep talking about it they keep having opinions on it I think for me it's just a tool um it's just another technology um we utilize it we adapt with it and that should allow us to amplify the work that we do um as designers as creators as makers I don't see it it will take over jobs but this is just the world of things industrial revolution did the same thing right um jobs were gone but new jobs occurred as well um and I think there's a need for design to really use the technology of AI to amplify the things they do for impact reason and purpose I think we can if we use it right it can be massively impactful um but from from an empathetic view as well um I think right now we're coming to a space where companies are understanding that the technology is available everyone can do the tech but can they make the experiences around the tech that are delightful that are enjoyable that are lasting and impactful that's where design I don't think will ever die.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

I think people that really truly understand the craft of experience will always have a job to have if they use the tools and the means that they have with technology I do think there's been a lot of a lot of bullshit coming up with AI is off there's fucking startups happening overnight there's fucking a big rise of startups happening valuations are off the scale don't make any fucking sense um that figure on over 90% of startups fail that's just getting fucking bigger um because people are just shooting out things left right and centre um I think we're coming into a bit of a dot com situation next next year or so um where there is a bubble and it will pop um but nothing like a recession or anything like that more of a dot-com situation um I think that bubble will pop and I think we will reset and we will go back to doing things that are impactful and meaningful and until a next hype trend arrives nah of course there's always going to be another hype trend and that's always always the case particularly in the design space one thing that gets me though is design always gets left out whenever there's a new technology paradigm my this is my my experience so I'm I'm looking at your view yeah um to either or just just yeah a rebuttal if you like um something new shiny comes along the tech guys go crazy with it then the marketing folks jump on top of it then they realize they need a reason to sell the tech and then hoi design people what can we use this for? Because we need to sell this shit.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah that's probably an oversimplification right but where's your head at with that I've kind of been in a place of mind with things where I think if a company's gonna do something wrong let them do it wrong let them get hurt by it let them bleed let them realize their mistakes there's no point of us sitting there crying hey guys you need to do design you need to do these things properly it's like you want to go down that path they're gonna do it they're gonna hurt they're gonna bleed they'll come back to us when they want to fix the process and then at that point we'll help they'll have they have to bleed a little bit if they want to go down the wrong path first um there's no point us trying to overprotect them I think design is it's insanely crucial to the the play of things at the moment there's people are realizing everyone can do the tech. Everyone can do it what's making what's making you different in your your offering your service your product what's making it different only design has the skill set of knowing how to do that.

Life Beyond Work, Family, And Seva

SPEAKER_01 42:57

That's even before you get to personalization it's like understanding purpose and then introducing personalization.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Yeah the business strategy has to be white and the the approach has to be right and then tech amplifies that tech is always it amplifies it doesn't create it amplifies.

Recognition, Awards, And Sharing The Stage

SPEAKER_01 43:16

See that is where my head's at and I've spoken with other folks you know uh and their view is the complete opposite their view perhaps not even perhaps they've said it out loud on on on this show why why would they why why would anyone come back to to UX why they don't now they don't engage us now so why are they gonna come back in in the future when they realise things go wrong but they're entitled to their view right I I I don't prescribe to that but there there is that mindset that's out there as well when you have we take taking a take a uh holistic example of this right have you have a product and a service um you launch it over you you don't consult design like or happens now you got a bunch of CT you got a CTO with a bunch of marketing and a bunch of like people launch out a product you have 20 of those same thing doing the same thing the same what's differentiating what what's what's winning and that'll come back to that will come back to us where that's it yeah yeah so there's an awful lot of pragmatism that's required um but that that's I think what we've always done I mean my background's engineering and music and all of that la la la la la but then you get into the design space and it's yeah see you see you when you walk around the block again a couple of times you know deciding not to go on this journey that you're going on but you're gonna do it and you've done it and yeah come back we know you're gonna come back I agree I agree 100% so you younglings out there who are listening maybe don't lose heart no I I think it's uh even uh it's a better playing field for them to be honest at the moment I think those creators have the ability to just create now as well we never had that correct we we we could create something in fucking Photoshop or sketch and shit but that's where it ends it's like that'll be it these guys have they've the they have the ability now to use it the technology to go ahead and create tools are insane I mean you look at you know I mean I was doing ARM VR stuff bloody decades ago um and where it is now uh you just look at what Snap are doing and hardware integration and the next step of that is going to be cerebral integration if you know Elon Musk gets his way and everyone's got a chip in their head um you know whatever that is but the expanse the increase in scope of what an individual can actually create yeah it's still got to be good yeah it's still got to be credible yes it needs to be delightful and you know feasible and blah blah blah blah blah but if there's no purpose and if it if it doesn't kick ass no one is going to be interested no one but that's no I I think I think the ones that are younger that have these skill set to to create these digital experiences and products and services that do them well they have they could they could overjump us quite quickly in the times of years where where we're at that's just the nature of things but you know I speak a lot about um for example ageism right um particularly in our sector I mean it's everywhere but it's it's it's felt probably because of the proximity um more so you just get to a certain I know I had it when I was in agency land and I speak to my peers and yeah if you hit what is it 35 and you start looking over your shoulder a little bit and if you're 40 everyone yeah you feel it you feel it in an agency it's kind of weird because it's I know it exists. I know it's a thing I've never felt it for myself I've always looked at I've always seen it in the opposite perspective like those older fuckers they they know what's up yeah yeah yeah I mean I I think I think the model is the same um it's it's a it's a cyclic thing people will come back and they'll just go oi who do we get who do we get who knows this shit okay yeah we'll get that old dude I mean there's there's there's things in years of experience that you just can't learn or do in in like a professional setting.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

There's things that we learn through the ages that are not they're not tied to craft they're tied to personal life experiences that's why like even like when we get to this point like the the ways that we talk and communicate with people is different with the years experience that we have it's the way that we handle situations. Um it's all it kind of comes to a favor I think of people that older and I've always like I I have people a lot older than me in my agency and it's always been a point that I've referred to them when I get a bit hotheaded.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

I'm still younger I still get a bit hotheaded on things but I need they they ground me and they holly chill find me no I mean I I literally do on a day-to-day basis uh even now um how to number one identify these folks who you can see the potential in and then how to transition them from arrogance to gravitas yeah yeah that that is priceless look we've been almost talking now for an hour um once again thank you so much um for wanting to do this I know schedules both of us have been crazy busy um but we've made time like you said and and this is happening any anything not necessarily closing comments but is there anything that you want to really share something that you know whatever it is open for yeah I guess one thing I could share is that everyone should be listening to this podcast everyone should be tuning into you everyone should be opening their ears to the wisdom of Mr.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Gill um I think that from my perspective I think we're blessed to have people like you around us and me to call you a friend and a peer is uh it's an honor.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Thank you okay I definitely wasn't expecting that but look I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna do what yeah uh what I'm trying to do which is to shut the hell up and just say thank you on but no agency it's it's going great guns right you are doing amazing work um and there is a thing that I'm gonna be speaking to you about not now uh because I think there's some damage that needs to be done and will be done um from a community perspective so I'll save that for next time yeah I mean child samoster need to happen those conversations need to happen but then the more the more smoster eater and child drinkers they are brilliant this is it man this is it this is like one of the reasons why people need to come to Tabah man that's it that's just that look Hareep it's it's genuinely awesome to see you excel right um and and not just the younglings but to see a South Asian to see like a proper pand and I mean proper Punjaban right is that with a with an A because that's how it should be spelled it you're having a good at my spelling man yeah it's crazy I'm I'm an engineer so I ain't gonna spell nothing I never could I never am going to and that's just one of my traits yeah I think that's one of my closing remarks to stop spelling Punjabi with a U.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

It doesn't make any sense it's just that that that's my closing remark no use of Punjabi.

AI Hype, Design’s Role, And The Bubble

SPEAKER_01 51:45

I will I will look to to correct that no no nobody is beyond learning no it's it's it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much and I look forward to seeing you I really really do thank you Joe I've been an absolute pleasure