Dorothy Dropped Two Bodies And We Need To Talk: The Wiz (1978)

Oz isn’t a shiny kingdom here. It’s a gritty, graffiti-smeared 1970s New York City dreamscape where trash cans can attack you, the subway feels like a horror movie, and the Yellow Brick Road might be a line of taxi cabs that the film forgets about halfway through. We’re Omari Williams and Jay Richardson, and we finally sit down with The Wiz (1978), the cult classic musical that swings big even when it stumbles.

We talk through the wild choices that make this Wizard of Oz adaptation feel so different: Sidney Lumet directing a huge studio musical, the film’s massive production design, and how the movie blends stage logic with movie editing. We get honest about the rough early lip-sync moments, the pacing, and why introducing Evelyn so late undercuts the villain arc even though Mabel King is fantastic. And yes, we address the elephant in the room: Dorothy being written as a shy 24-year-old while Diana Ross is clearly bringing a different kind of presence.

Then we get to the good stuff. Michael Jackson’s Scarecrow is a scene-stealer from the moment he shows up, “Ease On Down The Road” remains an all-timer, Emerald City is pure spectacle, and the finale songs hit hard. “Home” breaks our scoring scale, and we unpack why that emotional landing helps the movie’s themes click: identity, courage, community, and believing what you need is already inside you.

If you love movie reviews, classic musicals, and pop culture debates that don’t pull punches, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who grew up on The Wiz, and leave us a review with your rating from 1 to 10.

Transcript

Welcome And Quick Catch-Up

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Banter Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Omari Williams.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

And I'm Jay Richardson.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Today we are discussing the whiz.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

He's on down, ease on down the road. I didn't even I didn't even wait for you to finish.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

I just got to- You really didn't. You just got in there and I learned from our last one. Because you did that on the Supergirl pod, and I literally just deleted what I was saying because your your musical red dish was way more interesting. So that's why I stopped talking suddenly just now.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

I don't even think there's not even anything to sing in Supergirl. I was was I just okay. I'm gonna have to listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Yeah, you got there's a special treat in the beginning of that episode. So definitely give it a listen. Adjustment life. But you were you were doing, remember you were doing the you were trying to do the Superman fanfare theme. I was all over the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did something fun with that. So let me know your thoughts. Speaking of Supergirl, did you watch Supergirl, the the new one?

SPEAKER_04 1:43

No, not yet. I've only I went to the movies recently and I've only seen Toy Story 5 and Jackass, the final.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

You went to watch Jackass.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

I did watch Jackass.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

You're a Jackass fan? You've watched like all of them or something, or what?

SPEAKER_04 1:58

I don't know if I've seen every single one, but I've seen probably 75%. And then I used to watch it when it was on MTV.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Really?

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I just saw something about you. I've never watched any jackass movies. I mean, it was hard to avoid because you're right, they were on MTV all the time, but I would I would turn the channel. I'd be like, alright, I'm done here.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, and that's like that's like if you told me you never saw ridiculousness, I'd be like, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, exactly, right? Like just go to a bar and it's freaking on. Like it's just running. Yeah, Supergirl was not at all what I thought it would be. So that was is that good?

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Is that bad? And was it good? Was it better than 1978 version?

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I was just gonna say it was better than the 1984 version.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Yes, it was 84, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Definitely better, but as low a bar as that is to cover. But

Why The Wiz Feels So Different

SPEAKER_00 2:55

anyway, The Wiz. Yeah. Oh, no, that's this is your movie, so I thought it was your Q2.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Oh, that was me. Okay. I thought you were gonna say something else. All right, all right, all right, all right. All right, I'll take this over. Hey guys, this is my choice. I'm the musical fan. Every time I talk to Amari about a musical, he's looking at me like I'm crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

So, you know, it's that's not I actually I'm I actually scheduled the first musical on our schedule. We haven't done it yet, but it was been on the schedule for a while. Okay. That's not a saying.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

That's yeah, first is first. Yeah, first is first is just something I just made up, but I'm gonna run with it and pretend it's always been out there. So first is first. All right, guys, though is 1978. Let's talk about it. This is a cult classic, it's a fever dream out of hell, but you know, I don't know. We'll we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

So loose I don't want to say loosely based, because it is based. So if you've only ever seen The Wizard of Oz, this movie is, like I said, gonna throw you for a loop because it isn't just like a copy-paste of Dorothy and you know Kansas and all that stuff. It's the same framework, but it's kind of filtered through black culture, it's 1970 New York City, gospel music, soul music, urban life, all kind of filtered in together. It was directed by Sidney Lumet, who they say was kind of an odd choice for this because he had only done serious dramas like 12 Angie Men, Dog Day Afternoon, Network, not musicals. Did you know that? Have you seen any of those movies? I have that was a better question.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Never heard any of those movies before. No. Oh never heard of them before. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:54

All right, well, uncultured. Anyway, the movie stars Diana Ross as Dorothy. You have Michael Jackson, who is tapped here as the Scarecrow. We have Nipsey Russell as the Tin Man, Ted Ross as a cowardly lion, Richard Pryor. This is our second Richard Pryor movie here. I know as as the whiz. And you had Mabel King as Evelyn, and then the legendary Lena Horn as Glinda, which she showed up for like 10 seconds, but yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And maximize those 10 seconds. God damn.

SPEAKER_04 5:31

She was she was there, she was there. This movie had a a really big budget for its time. It actually was one of the most expensive musicals ever produced at clocking it at 24 million dollars. It only earned about 21 million, so considered a flop. Womp womp womp.

unknown 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Critics weren't too kind either. They didn't really like it. I think as time has passed, and because of what it represents, it's become that that cult classic. But the initial reaction wasn't too great of that.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Um you asked me if I'd seen the whiz uh like off air, and I said yes, and now I'm not so sure, but I think me saying I think I I was in the I was in the room while I was on, more so than like I was. You know what I'm saying? Like as a as a I was a kid, because I know of the whiz, but there was nothing really identifiable in this for me. I knew my son was in it as a scarecrow, and that's about it. So it was virtually my first time like actually just watching this thing um actively for sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Yeah, I was in the same boat. I had to think about it because it's so popular amongst I don't want to keep repeating, but it is popular amongst black audiences. So I assumed my mother had it on and I was watching it, but there was nothing I recognized, and the only thing I knew was Diana Ross was in it and Michael Jackson was in it, but the whole theme of what was actually happening, no idea. I was like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

So yeah, is and you know what too? Because I put this in the same boat as um as uh Cinderella, as um Brandy's Cinderella.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Oh, you have never seen that?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

You you've never seen it?

SPEAKER_03 7:11

No, you are you saying you've never seen Cinderella?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

No, no, no, no, no. I've seen that a bunch. So as I'm saying, I I learned that in the same boat, being like, yeah, I've seen Cinderella, and I've definitely had to have seen the whiz, but I'm not so sure about the whiz. I've seen Cinderella a whole bunch. Like I actually remember like I can sing the songs, you know what I'm saying? Like, so but yeah, the whiz was was definitely felt like a brand new experience for me. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Absolutely.

Cast, Budget, And First Impressions

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Let's get into some trivia. So Mari. This this is a little tough. This is a little toughy, but I'm gonna I'm gonna push you a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 7:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:46

So, all right. Trivia question for Omari. Who originally played Dorothy on Broadway and was actually supposed to star in this movie before Diana Ross pushed for the role?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

That's bad. I I kid you not. You got unlucky in this one because the art right now. I didn't look it up. I was literally just now staring at her Wikipedia page. Answer Stephanie Mills. There we go. Damn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

Every time I think I'm gonna stomp this guy, he's gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

I happen to come across it. I happen to come across it. So yeah, yeah. Stephanie.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Yeah, she was supposed to play it. I mean, she played it on Broadway, so she was not unnatural to play it in a movie, but she was age-appropriate. Jesus Christ. So if you're like us and you've never seen The Whiz, let's go through a little bit what happens. Dorothy, shy, sheltered 24-year-old school teacher, living with her Aunt M, feels she's trapped by fear and uncertainty. During a snowstorm, she chases Toto outside. To be honest, Toto would have been gone, gets caught in a magical blizzard, and then wakes up in Oz. To get home, she has to follow the yellow brick road to find the whiz. Along the way, she meets Scarecrow, who's convinced he's stupid, Tin Man, who believes he has no heart, Lion, who thinks he's a coward. Together they battled the wicked witch Evelyn, survive one of the creepiest subway scenes ever put in a family movie. In fact, I don't think anything, uh anything about this movie was a family movie. It was actually kind of scary. I was like, what?

SPEAKER_05 9:18

It got dark as hell. I know. It got weird.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

I was like, why does that all of a sudden it got super weird? I'm like, no wonder people didn't bring their kids. It's like, what the hell? Anyway, they discovered that the whiz isn't exactly who everyone thinks he is. And eventually Dorothy realizes everything she needed was already inside her. Aww. Instead of finding a magical solution, she just had to believe. I mean, yeah. Cool. My first thought, I mean, I just have to get this off my chest. We already said it. I love Diana Ross, I really, really do. But that was a hard ass 24. I was like, when when the aunt Aunt M said, oh, you're 24. I was like, she what? The pause.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I was like, goddamn. I was like, no, the fuck she isn't. Listen, it was so distracting, and I I had to look it up too. And Amazon, Amazon did have the tidbit about her, about them not wanting her to do it and her age. It was so distracting, man. I had to look that shit up too. But yeah, on M said 24, I was like, nah, man. Like, you look good, but nah, man.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

Yeah, nah, she didn't look like trash, but you know, there was not a 24 in her body. Nope. I was like, ugh, that was a rough one.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

That was a rough one. She was she was moving like a 24-year-old, though.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Oh, she was jetting, especially in the subway scene.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

That and the the final scene, I was like, I really realized, dude, Dana Ross is in excellent shape. She's an amazing because those high leg kicks and all that she was doing with the choreography. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Absolutely not. I just stop and hope they pass by, to be honest. But no, she was she was booking. I was like, hell yeah. Um, but yeah, then I looked at it and I was like, I don't know what happened. I was like, in my mind, I was like, oh, I don't know what happened, why black people in their 20s looked 40 and now we look like we're at 12. And then I was like, oh yeah, segregation. I just skipped over it. Like, oh yeah, Jim Crow laws. My bad. Forgot about that part.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, things were kind of rough. Yeah, they were kind of rough.

SPEAKER_04 11:30

Yeah, a little rough, a little rough. My bad. Anyway, like I already said, I love dogs. Toto was gone. I'm I'm not running out. Toto had to was a problem.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Toto you know what? I suspect that the that the actual dog actor was problematic as well. Because there were a lot of scenes where like Toto just wasn't in the scene at all. Motherfucker was gone.

SPEAKER_04 11:53

I was like, damn.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

I'm thinking that dog actor was giving them hell, and they were just like, let's just do it up the dog, okay? And then every now and again, Toto would just show up again, and I'm like, yeah, this Toto is not helping out at all. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

This is I didn't I didn't look that up, but you're a hundred percent correct. It looks like that. It looks like they're just like catching parts of him running up at running fast, and they're like, Oh, there he is. Oh, I was like, Oh, he's still alive. Because half the movie, I was like, Where the fuck did this dog go?

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Right when it got to Oz, I was like, I think she lost Toto, like because she was like, Toto, Toto, and he never fucking came. And that was one of those situations where I'm like, I think he was supposed to run into frame and Toto was in the back, like licking himself or something. Like, yeah, yeah, it was not good, it was not good.

Michael Jackson Steals The Spotlight

SPEAKER_04 12:39

Also, before we go into this, I already alluded to it, but I think Michael Jackson absolutely steals this movie from the first scene where the crows are talking to him. He gives him that look. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

I just like I wrote Oh, go ahead. I wrote MJ has entered the chat, and then I said MJ is locked in. Like, I just he was great. He was really great.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

He was excellent. Like I was locked in with him from the from the time he opened his mouth. Because I was like, because I don't know what he's gonna sound like, like I don't know what kind of like spin he's gonna put on it, so I was waiting. And he opened his mouth and I was sucked in from the scarecrow scene. I was like, oh, okay, this is my guy. Yeah, he made a sackful of straws, one of the most likable characters in the entire movie, which is just awesome.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I'm I'm sorry to say that I was I wasn't sure what he was gonna give us, and I I thought it may have like been corny or just weird or distracting for Jackson in this. And I mean this is an 18-year-old Michael before he this is like the end of his Jackson five days before he starts to go in his solo stuff, but still like I was not sure what to expect, and this is not what I expected. It was it was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

So, so again, Diana Ross is there, but Michael Jackson is stealing the scene here. They give her some kind of pseudo follow the yellow brick road, and throughout the movie, we could talk about it. Maybe you got it, because I never got it and I didn't I didn't look it up. But after they told her to follow the yellow brick road, and I was like, Where's this road? Because it did not exist. Nope. But every time she looked around, eventually these like taxi cabs would show up and they'd be like, Oh, Oz. And then as soon as she got there, it would say, Oh, out of service, and then drive off. Like, what was that about?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

I couldn't tell you because they abandoned that after they found the Tin Man. And I think that was the last time I remember seeing it when all four of them were together and they were dancing on top of the cabs or something, and we didn't see them movie, so yeah, I don't really because I was like, okay, well, maybe maybe they're using the cabs as a stand-in for the yellow brick road, but then they gave us an actual yellow brick road. So I I was lost. I didn't know what the imagery, what the the meaning behind the cabs was supposed to be. I I was lost.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Okay, cool. Now maybe some like New Yorker could like chime in on something and let us know because I was completely lost. I I absolutely would have loved to see the taxi cabs represent the the the road because that's like that's like New York culture, like those yellow taxi cabs. Whenever you see New York, you're in a yellow taxi cab. So I'm like, oh, this makes total sense. But then they immediately abandon it, and I was like, Oh no? I was like, is she not allowed? Why can't she go in there? And why do they keep showing up and then disappearing? I didn't understand that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

That wasn't well executed at all.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Okay, all right.

Oz As 1970s New York City

SPEAKER_04 15:52

So Oz looks like New York in the late 70s, but like truly New York in the late 70s. Like there's garbage on the side, there's like abandoned amusement parks, there's broken subway stations, there's graffiti everywhere, industrial factories. Which makes sense at the time in the 70s, you know, right before the 80s, New York was going through one of the roughest periods economically, really. Crime was up, entire neighborhoods were being neglected and demolished. So Oz kind of became like this dream-like version of the city. But instead of like escaping reality and making it all like pretty and like it doesn't exist, they kind of built the fantasy around the reality, which I appreciated personally. So we talked about the initial scene with uh Scarecrow and the crows, which I thought that's not the initial scheme, that's like the third, the fourth scene. No, no. I'm sorry, I didn't mean initial. I I was I was I was just gonna go into the introduction of each of the individual characters.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

So first of Scarecrow.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

So you're not dealing with any of the pre-Oz shit, really. I mean No, okay, okay, okay. No, no, no, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

Okay, that's now if you want to run some of it, we can. Well, is there something there that you wanted to comment on?

Musical Choices And Rough Lip Sync

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Well, so when I with it being a musical, I I took the Simelo seriously, and I did keep track of all the songs, and I just gave like a quick like personal rating, just one to three, of like all the songs that came up, you know. And okay, cool. So I did because there were two songs in that beginning opening scene with with the Thanksgiving dinner where everyone was gathering, and we met all these fucking people for no goddamn reason. Yeah, they made nothing. Yeah, but I I guess the only thing I would like to comment on was one, I I was first thrown with the editing, because the editing of the movie is a little rough in certain places, and you could see that they pre-recorded some of the songs and they were lip sync into it. Did you did you was that distracting for you as well, or no?

SPEAKER_03 18:02

So it my god, okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

I saw that, but I assumed it was because I sped it up. So I was like, oh it's a little yeah, I because I sp, you know, you know, I speed it up, so I thought it was off. That's why I slowed it back down and I guess I kind of ignored it. But when I sped it up, it was very, very obvious. And I was like, what the hell? Well, like why are the words like that?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

So especially in those first couple scenes, and it's crazy because the later songs, uh the back half of the movie, you can tell that they are performing those, but those first couple of songs, it was rough for me because um who's putting it on M. Like her song, aside from it coming out of nowhere and like not really. I literally I literally wrote I said sudden singing is sudden. Like I knew it's just the movie's a it's a musical, but the song I I I didn't know what the point of the song was. She just started singing, and I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. But that aside, there was editing issues with the song, and this is why the movie got some of its ding in where they pre-recorded in a boot and then they had his lips sync to it, and they did a poor job. So that shit distracted the hell out of me. Even Diana Ross's first song that also happened in that scene as a response to that. That was Can I Go On Not Knowing? Those also, I just I did not like them. And when she sang that song, I was worried because I'm like, yo, Diana Ross is that one, so but this song didn't do it for me. So I think a couple things completing the movie, I think a couple things happened. One, the lip syncing, the the editing was terrible, so that took away from it, but also because of the character of Dorothy starts off in a more timid place and then she grows more confident throughout the movie, that's been reflected in her singing, and it's not an accident that as the movie goes on, you start to see the power that Diana Ross is capable of projecting. But that first song did not hit for me. I I was like, ooh, this is not gonna be good if this is what we're getting.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

And then Diana Ross's response was kind of like also random, but I mean it was a response, but it was also like so I I can't even tell you one word of what she also said. So I guess I didn't really kick back in until she got sucked up into Oz with the graffiti and all that.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Which is when the songs immediately improved. That first song, He's the Wizard, when they got there with Thelma Carpenter. She did a great job. She had that one song, but I thought she did a great job with that song. It was fun and it made me feel safe in a movie again. That okay, I'm gonna have some fun here because the first couple songs did not make me feel that way.

SPEAKER_04 20:51

And I I always feel so bad, like when it's a like a black movie that's like revered, and I'm watching it and I'm like, oh shit. I'm like, oh man, someone's gonna take my black card because I'm like, oh, this is bad. This is bad already.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah, yeah. I know.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Yeah. Yeah, but it it it picks up enough where I you know I I understand why. Let's get back into it. So we get we get after that scene, which is essentially Aunt M just saying, hey, do do more for yourself. You you just you know, I think she's an elementary school teacher at the time, and you know, Aunt M's like, hey, 24-year-old elementary school teacher, sorry. Yeah, she's a 24-year-old elementary school teacher. Aunt N's like, hey, why don't you take that job, get outside or beyond 125th Street, which I there's no relevance to that for me, because I don't I don't live in New York, but I assume that's maybe uptown, downtown, midtown, I don't know, but and also more money and things like that. And she's essentially like, no, I'm good. It's like, what the fuck? No, you're not. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Yeah, and that's just that's the end of that. Yeah, we don't have the end of that. Because none of that shit really matters. That whole speech that RM gives her doesn't matter. We don't even they don't even really. I know the loop. Guys, just start in Oz next time, then. Okay. Just start with her being lost and like she's trying to get home. Because why give us all of that bullshit and then never bring her back home to be reunited with Aunt M or any of that shit? Like, I don't know. It was weird.

SPEAKER_04 22:28

You know why they didn't do that?

unknown 22:30

Why?

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Because she's dead. You know she got frozen out in that snowstorm. Like, oh, Dorman. Come on. You know she's dead. Yeah, she had Toto froze to death.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

This was a fever dream, and she was damn, and she was expiring.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

That's why they couldn't bring her back. That's why they couldn't like come back because it's like she's she she froze outside. It was a literal, literal blizzard, and she was out there in like high heels and a skirt.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

It'll take me 20 minutes to at least dress up enough to go get back.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Go find Toto. I was not, yeah. I've been like, whoa, Toto, whoa, I hope he's okay as I fucking put my boots and a couple layers on.

SPEAKER_04 23:08

Yeah. So she's dead. That's why she wasn't, you know, reunited. But you know, it's okay.

Meeting The Crew On The Road

SPEAKER_04 23:16

So we have the scarecrow, and this is the first rendition of E's on Down the Road that pops up, right? Correct?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

After this scene, yeah. We see it each time she has a new cast member.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

As they continue to travel, they eventually find the Tin Man. Yeah, this is Nipsey Russell.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um'd you feel about him and his performance?

SPEAKER_04 23:36

I thought he did an excellent job as well. Like the the three characters, I mean Diana Ross are okay too, but the three characters, like they really were all great.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

They were all great.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

You know that. Oh gosh. Theodore Robert Ross, who was the lion, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Yeah, Ted Ross, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah, he and Mabel, they were reprising their roles on Broadway.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Okay. Mabel King and Ted Ross, yeah, they were reprising their roles from Broad Broadway. So yeah, Ted Ross, he was in his bag. Like you could see from the time he got out there, he was already like warmed up. He's like, Yeah, I'm ready, let's go. I've been doing this shit my whole time.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

He was definitely ready. He in that dusty ass suit. I was like, damn, why is there so much dirt on that?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

I know.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

I was kind of confused. Was he buried? Anyway, before we get into Lion, we'll talk to Tim Man a little bit more. I just wanted to go into that whole scene there. Um, so Tim Man is found in an abandoned amusement park. They kind of straighten him out, give him some oil, and you know, he he says, you know, he's kind of like a con man who's had a lot of women, fourth wife, but he's never really been in love. He doesn't have any feelings. Again, excellent by Nipsey Russell. I I also I could feel I could feel Diana Ross, aka Dorothy getting more comfortable as well. So it helped to ease that whole this the scenes after this were much better than the initial by herself with on M. So 100%. So I really was starting to really get into it and I okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. But other than that, much going on in this scene. There was a scene where they started singing, and the figureheads like said hoo-hoo-hoo, or some some kind of like background thing. And Michael Jackson like looked up like he didn't expect it to sing. I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yeah, that was a New Orleans jazzy song, right? Yes, I love that. Yeah, that was Slice Some Oil to Me. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

Um What's your rating for that song?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

I gave that, I gave that one a 2.5. I gave that one a 2.5.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

That's a solid number. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna rate with you. Okay. I would give it. I mean, if it's just one, two, three, I'll just give it two.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. That was because I had give I gave the one he did before that a three, his like the ballot he did before, like his like introductory song. I really liked how powerful that felt. Um so I had actually given that one a three, even though the slight the oil one was a little more fun, but I just like how expressive he was in that one song.

SPEAKER_04 26:18

Hmm. It was good. Yeah, I would probably give the other one before that a two as well. I I really like the New Orleans jazz type song. So I'm gonna get that one. I would actually flip it if I had to choose. I would say three for that one and two for the other, but I mean, yeah, one point off.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

You were gonna say something, and then I talk about when when the Tin Man got introduced, I really drew my attention to the the makeup and the prosthetics in this in this movie. No, it was excellent. Actually, it was that's not true. From Back with the Crows is when I was like, oh, that was at first. I was like, what the fuck? Like the beaks look so realistic, like it was like glued, like merged into their faces. And then when we saw the Tin Man and the detail on him, I I thought the you could see where the money was spent. I felt like in this movie.

SPEAKER_04 27:06

Yeah, the set design for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Set design, set design and costumes, yeah, makeup and prosthetics. Definitely the the money was spent for sure. And then we got our second rendition of ease on down.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

Yeah, we ease on down, ease on down, whoa, whoa. That's my country version. So they go on, and we run into the lion, and the lion is played, as Amari said, by Ted Ross. That he also played the lion on Broadway. He starts out very scary and very like, oh, what's he about to do? I lose that.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

I'm a meaningful lion. I love that song. Okay, lit. Yeah, I had fun with that song. I thought that was a really nice. Definitely gave it a three, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yep. I give that a three as well. But he gets bitten on the paw by Toto and immediately starts cowering. And they're like, oh, you scaredy cat.

Subway Nightmare And Poppy Confusion

SPEAKER_04 28:05

So we get into the subway. The subway is creepy, it's dark. I would never want to go in there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Definitely some New York commentary on that.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

For sure. I would not want to go in there. Most all of the things randomly just kind of start coming alive. I don't know what to kick that off. I don't know if I missed something.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

So here's one of my gripes with the movie. Not to skip us ahead too much, but like when we get to the the the wicked witch of the west, right? Yeah when we get to her and she talks about oh, she has a language she says, so none of you have stopped Dorothy. And I was like, Were you guys trying to stop Dorothy? And then I'm like, is that what the subway sequence was about? Because that shit was so unclear. It was just like weird shit is happening now, terrifying shit is happening right now. Like, let's get the fuck out of here. But it was never made clear to me that like in the actual Wizard of Oz, which I knew they were trying to be different from that, right? Which I don't know how you could be different. It's the fucking Wizard of Oz using the same characters, guys. Yeah, it's probably from the book. Yeah, don't be don't be too fucking cute with it, right? You're doing the Wizard of Oz, right? But in the Wizard of Oz, the flying monkeys were popping up every now and again, like they were being a menace. They got introduced to that the Wicked Witch super early in the movie, so it was like she was a looming threat. And that looming threat wasn't there until we got like way after we left the Emerald City for the first time. Then they introduced the Wicked Witch. And and I don't want to step on the order of stuff, but uh my thing was like I think that I'm wondering if it took too long to introduce her because she has to like crush it to justify this movie being an extra 20 or 30 minutes long because the movie was which I think she did. She did, she did, but then she wasn't in the movie very long at all either, though. No, no, no, so I think they wasted her. I think we I think the movie would have been more enjoyable if we had seen her prior and she was popping in and out, or at least her flying monkeys were popping in and out, impeding them at every way. So that's that's my like biggest critique of the movie. I didn't like that sequence in at all for the villain. And we'll talk more about the wait when we get there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

I mean, you know, I don't I don't have the orders, we can run it. You're already there, and I had the exact same note to the exact same thing when she oh when she said, Oh, you didn't stop them. I was like, Did you know she was there? Because there was no indication that you knew that she existed at all. Like exactly did someone tell you? I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

I don't know what that was talking about, but like we didn't know you existed at all ourselves, only because we know the story that you're gonna show up. But as far as watching this movie blind, you're surprised. It's like, oh shit, who's this lady all of a sudden, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:00

Like right, right, right. But now that you said that, I I guess that's what you know the subway scene uh was supposed to indicate where the trash cans came alive. Uh the pillars the pillars came alive. I was like, so is this gonna come down on them? Because the pillars just kind of took apart.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I honestly until we got to the witch part, I'm like, they're just showing off, like they had some extra money to spend, they're just trying to show off how good their set designs are. Because I'm like narratively, I don't know what the fuck is happening. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

But it looked cool.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah, it looked super cool, super cool. Yeah, Diana Ross got to show off booking it in those heels, like, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

Hell yeah. She looked cool. She was booking it.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

But and then the first note in that section was what the F is happening. Because I was just confused the whole time.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Yeah, I don't, I didn't know why. Because I thought originally I thought, oh, this is the poppy field, uh, this is their version of the poppy feels. And I was like, oh, okay, so maybe you know they're all high, and now it looks like things are chasing them because that's what poppy feels are supposed to be, right? Yeah, um, or well, it depends on the version. Some version they make you sleep, some of them just make you like high and kind of like disoriented. I don't know. Maybe it's I don't know. I'm not snorting poppy, so I have no idea. But either way, I thought maybe this was the poppy field, and I was like, Oh, okay, makes sense. But then poppy feel shows up later. I'm like, oh, so what the hell was that? Why are people why so I don't know. It was kind of weird, but it did look nice. You did also see kind of uncharacteristically, the lion was like saving everybody, and I was like, Oh, I thought you were too scared. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 32:38

I I guess I I mean as we know, like the the whole theme of the movie is like you already had these things yeah, it's in you, yeah. So I guess that gave us an opportunity to see the lion saving them. Because I that stood out to me as well. I was like, is the lion like the only one like just helping everyone? So I I guess that was an opportunity to show that happening, but you could have done that in ways that didn't confuse the shit out of us, but whatever. Yeah, yeah. I don't feel like it got better after that.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Yeah, it didn't.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

It kind of because yeah, that because now so now we got the poppy girls theme that comes up, and literally I get that a one, and I said, What the fuck was that? Like I this whole thing, which is so this is another contrived situation to give us like oh, the tin man cares because this scene ended with the tin man crying over them or whatever, and his tears like waking them up. It was weird, it was too weird for me. And I this this all happened at around an hour, an hour and like five minutes, right? Which is like dead in the middle of the movie. And I felt it.

SPEAKER_05 33:48

I'm like, what else is left?

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Thank you. I'm gonna do like I remember in this movie that we should have like 20 minutes left in this thing. Why why is there a whole nother hour? And I I wrote down, I said we're a little over the halfway mark, there's a whole nother hour, and I don't think it's needed, if especially if it's just gonna be weird shenanigans, which the subway and the poppy scenes. I just it was losing me. It was losing me. However, the to be a lion song that Diana Ross sang here after a season. Three oh my god, yep, absolutely a three.

SPEAKER_04 34:26

That's like that was that was her best song for me. It was the most like impactful and emotional that I felt when I was with her the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

I had that as well until the the I think the finale song was better. The finale song was that shit really emotional, that was really good. But however, especially definitely up until this point, this was the first song I literally wrote my my my note here is Diana Ross's voice is beautiful, and this song actually lets her shine. And I put it all caps finally, because the whole time I'm like, what is the song she did before this was fine? Uh, it was definitely not as bad as that first one, but this song is when you were like, Holy shit, Diana Ross has been cast to play Dorothy in this movie, you know? Yeah, and it took it took an hour for us to hear her fucking belt in, which was too long. It was too long.

SPEAKER_04 35:16

Yeah, I don't know. I guess they didn't want to like distract us with just Diana Ross. Just same with like, you know, even though it's Michael Jackson, like he's in prosthetics that doesn't look like Michael Jackson. So you know, you have the you have these major stars, and you don't want to just give light to them just because they're a major star, so maybe. But I'm I'm just pulling at strings here. But I guess I but yeah, the the subway feel the subway scene and the poppy field scene kind of didn't make sense. I I was struggling with the poppy feel scene, besides the back end with the tin men have to cry on them for them to be revived, which I I don't know what that was about. Whatever. Yeah, let's skip over that. But I so the poppies were the black women.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

I I just think that was just the I think that's the other thing. The movie I feel like went back and forth between being a movie and being a play or a musical, you know, and it's like I think at that point in time you have to apply musical play logic and not movie logic. Okay, those were the poppies. That was just a set piece, like a like an intermezzle where it's just we're transitioning into the next scene, and those are just like the actual poppies dancing. Um they're not people, you know. Yeah, I think that's what happened there.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

And with that in mind, then that makes the scene kind of even more beautiful for me, then because the way they were moving and dancing, it was kind of like like flower and choreography in this movie was top-notch.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Top notch. Choreography was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

Yep, yeah. So, yes, thanks for pulling me back because I it it turned me off, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

And I can see that, yeah, I can see why that would happen

Emerald City Spectacle And Style

SPEAKER_00 36:56

for sure.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

All right, so after Poppy Field, we finally make it to Emerald City. Emerald Which again I can see I can see the masterminds behind this, and this would have been like if this was a plate, I would be like, oh my god, this is this is great, yeah, this is excellent. Um, all the colors and the choreography, the dancing, the singing, it is just really amazing. Yes, so they they they go from the green song to the red song to the gold song, yeah, and it was just like someone flipped a switch and all of a sudden you're in this next thing, and it's just like, oh, oh, oh, oh.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

It wasn't like Quincy Jones was in his bag on this one, yeah. This to this scene, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

Yeah, even though it was so quick, I was just like amazed the whole time. Like, oh, oh, oh, next one. Like, oh, we're they're flipping, and I'm like, they did an excellent job shooting the scene, and and you know, yeah, I don't know. There's there's no bad in this scene for me.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Nah, like I I feel like there were a few times throughout the movie where I'm like, Am I watching a movie or am I watching a play? You know, and it was just uh when my mind was like in play mode, it made whenever whenever they used movie magic to do something, it really blew my fucking mind because I'm like, how do they do that? Which is like they can do whatever they want, like there's editing and all this other stuff. But I'm like just they did a good job of aside from this part we just talked about, but for the most part, allowing us to get sucked into some of these set scenes and just feel like we're just experiencing a play. And I think that's one of the best parts about the movie. When the movie is at its best when it's able to do that, you know, and just have you just get lost in what's going on there, and then they could just get away with you know, the like I said, use movie magic to edit something or make something extra happen. You don't know because you're just fixated on the spectacle.

SPEAKER_04 39:01

The other thing that I found interesting here, and I don't I don't know if I'm digging deep into this Emerald City thing, but to the point of how quickly, as the whiz was shouting out colors and you know what it means, people were outside and running to grab it. There was even there was even a lyric around like you have nothing in your cob your cupboard, but your hair looks good and all that, and kind of picking looking good or beauty over sustainment, you know, like more essential things.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

So I thought that was another great use of not only that scene, but just you know what what probably was going into the time going on at that time with conforming to beauty standards, especially for black people, especially for black women. And even now we see that, you know, look how quickly things can can go viral and all of a sudden everybody has it. Like, oh, this thing is cool, so now everybody has it. So that's essentially how he was directing it for me. So and yeah, I was just about to get there.

Richard Pryor Behind The Curtain

SPEAKER_04 40:09

So at Emerald City, Dorothy requests to see the whiz. He says, just you, not those riffraffs, and I laughed out loud. I was like, I feel like he just did that off the top of his head, but it made me laugh. And I was like, okay. Probably eventually he lets them up, and it's lo and behold, Rigid Pryor. You don't see him initially, he's just behind this gigantic projection thing and a big head and machine and smoke, and you know, kind of like projecting power. Yeah, there's some fire there, projecting power, and everybody's all scared. And then he gives her her task of she has to kill Evelyn, which is again the first time that we hear Evelyn is some kind of antagonist here at this point, even though if you don't know the story of Wizard of Oz and you're like, oh, who's Evelyn and why? You know, we're in an hour and 20 at this point. We're like, why are we going backwards? But okay.

unknown 41:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

Yeah. Aside from like the beginning scene, after they meet him, I I kind of don't have much. It kind of dies back down for me. It really does.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

Yeah, it really does. Yeah. Um, until we get to Evelyn, yeah. Because after this, they're like in an apartment somehow, and they're like crying, and like, what do we do? Oh, is that later? Is that now or later when they're in their apartment?

SPEAKER_04 41:28

No, no, it is because she has to decide if she's going to go kill Evelyn. So yeah, they're in this motel thing and they're all just kind of there. Yeah, I I did. I also was like, what the fuck? Why are they in a motel? Like, okay, they could have just thought about this like outside.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Like, I know, I don't know. That was weird. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

So Dorothy decides, yes, she needs to get out of here. Plus, you know, she made a promise to the guys or or or the other characters, so she decides she's gonna kill Evelyn. Somehow, she uh at the same time, no, yeah. So she decides she's gonna kill Evelyn.

Evelyn Arrives Too Late

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Sometimes at the same time, Evelyn is having this discussion with her henchman, aka the flying monkeys. We have that again beautiful set piece costumes where they're at Evelyn's sweatshop, which the only purpose of it is to generate sweat. And I was like, for what? Like, what are they doing with the sweat?

SPEAKER_05 42:28

Oh my gosh, but it was weird.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

I don't know. It's what it literally, I don't know if you read the sign because it kind of flashed kind of fast, but it said sweatshop to procure or manufacture sweat. And I was like, Oh, okay, cool. So workers are trapped, they're scared, they're exhausted, they're producing wealth, or literally the sweat off their backs for someone else. She's ex she's literally exploiting labor. Um, so I think that's kind of another piece of some of the themes that may be going on here for black Americans, um, especially in New York. Now, again, we could I could be just digging. I'm trying to get the best I can out of this movie, like who's behind it and what could be going on. I thought, what do you what did you think of the song?

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Honestly, I just I thought the song was just fine. I I didn't like I gave it a two on it. It was it was alright. It didn't really speak to me too heavily. I I think and I and this goes back to my earlier thoughts. They really did Mabel King a disservice and the character of Evelyn. Bringing her in at this point in time, I was too just kind of fed up or overwhelmed with like why like this is a whole new thing. You know, like you said, hour and 20 minutes into the damn movie, uh, an hour and a half into the movie. I just I'm like, like, what's going on here? You know, so I was a little bit checked out to be honest, during a lot of Evelyn's her part, well, at least her her singing number, because I do have.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

a lot of notes here of what was happening like once the scene was was finished but yeah I don't have much commentary on on her on her song I loved her song I I loved no bad news or or don't or don't bring me no bad news whatever it was like I I absolutely loved it and I love her performance I loved her introduction as the villain unfortunately it was way too late into the movie but I I did love her introduction as the villain and with that song I thought it was like top notch I if I had to give it a number I would give that one a three nice um yeah no I mean so once the song you know wrapped up and everything and she has everyone captured and this is where the movie gets super dark right because she has everyone's about to be tortured the screar scarecrow is about to cut in half they're about to squeeze the tin man the lion they were gonna hang him by his tail and then they were going to throw Toto into like just a vat of fire and my girl said do you like mustard or or or sauerkraut and she's like for what she's like for a hot dog dude and that is one of the other times that I laughed out loud and I literally said I don't know why I'm laughing at her about to kill Toto but that shit was so funny. Because I was like what the fuck why she because like because I was I also was inquisitive of like why is she asking about mustard and like did I miss something so random yeah I didn't I didn't get it until she says she wanted her hot dog.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

I was like oh so I thought to why I was confused I thought they were gonna put Dorothy in the fire because we had seen Scarecrow Tin Men Lion and I'm like well that's her whole party that's everyone and no no no we forgot about Toto so when I was like oh shit she's even gonna torture or kill Toto I don't know why I I laughed at that whole that whole delivery was pretty funny.

A Brand New Day And The Aftermath

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Um and then we have the whole escape thing which is weird why would you have a sprinkler system in there I don't understand oh my fucking god oh but you are literally allergic to water why are you really that concerned with a worker of open flames you have open flames in there so she does have open flames what the fuck that I I was like whoa this is this doesn't make any sense but okay and then we had another one of those like movie magic play things because I was like how are they gonna put the scarecrow together and fix the tin man he literally just got flipped yeah yeah yeah just yada yada yep they just blew him back up I was like oh okay so I I thought I was like well maybe Glenda is gonna show up now and heal them wave her a ya wand or something yeah not even that happened so no I I was like okay but before I could get too worried about that we get another huge dance piece right which is their their version of like the the witch is dead right from the song everyone's excited everybody rejoiced that's the name of the song a brand new day um that that was where I I noted Diane Horas being in amazing shape but then after the the what what I'm gonna say the wicked witches sub servants or whatever when they started to shed their outer skins I literally wrote down thank god I was like did they know that was gonna happen concern I literally was like okay beautiful black people I see y'all because that's exactly what that was to me like they're all just like an underwear and just gonna see black skin black people black bodies just like crushing it out there. The end of this movie it ends very strongly very strongly yeah no I like that I like that yeah similar similar comments for me I once I saw scarecrow get cut in half and then tin man get flattened I was like oh okay she so she really going down so like now I'm not gonna be my shoes then they threatened Toto and she's like oh yeah here you go I was like man if that was if I was scarecrow to man I'd rule my damn eyes so hard like so you couldn't have saved before me now they eat hot dogs now all of a sudden you're like oh yeah here you go like who's gonna fix this I also noted man I was like dude Dorothy is way more comfortable with murder after that last number dance number man because she was all when she first got there she I didn't kill anyone though I'm so sorry now she's like yeah we gotta we gotta we gotta dead that witch you know it's like crazy crazy yeah she she she had an arc as well she became a villain herself I think a little bit I mean she showed up in this world this place she's never been in and she dropped two fucking bodies yeah like let's be honest man like like Dorothy's a problem I'm sorry Dorothy's a problem I I need to tear back what I just said though when I said that the movie ends

The Wiz Exposed And Final Lessons

SPEAKER_00 49:10

very strongly I forgot we have to go back to Oz to talk to the wizard so yeah yes yeah yes again kind of yada yada all of a sudden they were just there they said it was a back door I was like oh okay yeah okay back door whatever and they just but yeah they they get back to Oz and they find Richard Pryor sleeping on a cot for some reason like this feels weird yeah yeah he was weirdly in a fetal position they they you know confront him and first you try to pretend like he's somebody else and they're like wait you're the Oz they get mad they're like oh you're nobody yada yada yada yeah it does again die down which again is a waste of Richard Pryor like we talked about how much we loved him and uh what did we have him in in Harlem Knights Harlem Knights we really we were surprised and pleasantly surprised at how how great he was in that I I didn't like and he they gave him a lot to do but I literally I wrote what did I guess I was like this monologue by Richard Pryor is going on long. Like I did not I didn't think I listened to a word of it I was like oh okay it was too much I tuned out 100% listen my other laugh came here though when um MJ's delivery here public office is the last revenues of the incompetent Penrose and he like yelled that at him I don't know why I thought that shit was funny I had to rewind it it was so funny just his delivery and timing of it because they're all like upset they found out the wizard isn't real and MJ just walks over and just shouts this at him and walks away and sits I don't know why I found that very funny but outside of that yeah the scene it dragged on for me until we got to the last like singing numbers you know that whole I don't know Richard Pryor wasn't doing it for me here at all.

SPEAKER_04 51:07

Yeah they could it could have been anybody it really didn't it didn't need to have his name attached to it to like do much but I guess it's all it's good you know it's it's black culture in New York in the uh 70s 80s you know that's Richard Pryor all day but yeah I didn't know what was going on here outside of gateway for the good witch to come in and save the day which is like oh so if it was just her then why the hell we do all of this but okay that that song though if you believe in yourself I I had Dana Ross was cooking again in that song I I she delivered it with a lot of emotion I thought and I'm like okay cool like I'm like satisfied I thought and then Lena Horn came in reprise the same fucking song but with power and my note was Lena Horn was like 60 years old when she sang that when she did that that role and to have that much power in your voice still at 60 years old like I was so I

Home, Believe, And The Big Finish

SPEAKER_04 52:14

was really impressed.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Like did did that last those last songs if you believe in yourself did that do anything for you or were you just kind of like ready to be done oh I was ready to be done but no I I appreciated it and I I was definitely in it. Yeah Lena Horn unfortunately again you get like just this song essentially but yeah it'd have been great to see more of that with uh believe in yourself and then Diana Ross with her home song which again yeah so home listen home broke my scoring scale I'm sorry that song okay I I I I don't know if it was just look at the visual of it right because they had her against like the black screen and you know and then it had the images of flashing by her and the it was kind of like she's just in the studio just singing right now fuck the acting fuck the dancing forget all the other stuff this is just Diana Ross doing what she does best yeah and I just like it literally made my eyes messed up a hundred percent she was crying when she was singing the song and everything I thought that shit was so powerful. I gave that shit a five she fucked up my whole scoring thing I had to I couldn't give it a three I had to give it a five I was like damn the song was so good.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

I listened to it on the car when I went to go uh drop my son off I had to run the song back man like it was really really good yeah really good song I love that I love that yep that it it ended strongly for sure with this aside from Richard Pryder and whatever the hell he was doing those two songs definitely topped it there are some themes right so I'll just kind of bring them so we have finding your identity everyone kind of starts the movie believing they're missing something whether the brain the heart courage confidence but they had those qualities all along you have the community which you know kind of points to nobody finishes the journey alone that's actually one of my favorite messages here Dorothy though she had even if she had it in herself she still needed her friends along the way and that drive from them and that power from them to to help her get back home which I again I'm pretty sure she's dead back home but you know whatever and then we had an excellent display of black excellence black identity you have a celebration of black music black fashion black performers imagination resilience all kind of packaged together in this albeit a little too long movie but but I can I can give it I can give it some grace for what they try to do.

Scores, Cultural Impact, And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_00 54:47

Alright sir take us out let's let's score this thing let's rate this thing for any newcomers we rate our movies based on five categories plot and writing acting casting production cinematography music and sound and cultural impact everything is rated on a scale of one to ten Jill plot and writing where did you land all right so I mean I'm not going off of necessarily the Wiz's plot and writing I'm just gonna go off of the the trope of the Wizard of Oz and I just you know just in general I'm gonna give it a five okay I thought you were gonna go higher for some reason yeah I gave it a six yeah I I think I was being generous with the six but yeah I gave it a six it was the plot wasn't really great yeah you know they they said because this is a play but they didn't use any of the dialogue from the play like they wrote their own shit which I don't know that probably was not a good idea yeah sometimes a play doesn't necessarily translate doesn't translate to a movie but then they also made it yeah yeah yeah yeah like like I'm not saying it should have only been the play dialogue but to have zero that's fair that's fair yeah that's kind of wild I feel um acting have you seen oh I'm sorry have you seen the whiz the play no I have not how well you've played in it yeah I haven't I haven't seen it well how okay how does that compare I didn't play I'm sorry I didn't play in the whiz I played I just played the music of of it gotcha yeah yeah yeah yeah the only one I played is no I've never seen it either I don't think I don't think they're sh I mean I don't know where the hell they're showing that like it's not a popular thing on Broadway when like when we left home and stuff to to even have a chance to see it right yeah yeah dang all right okay acting and casting what do you got for acting and casting I gave it a seven oh I did a seven as well I did a seven production cinematography and visuals I mean I they did an excellent job aside from the kind of confusing scenes which j even though they were confusing the uh cinematically they were still very uh I mean I don't want excellent in my eyes that's that's kind of what I got so I give it a solid 10 for that nice okay I give whoops I gave them an an eight for production I know I know a little difference okay I was a little worried about being too high scoring a movie too high yeah I yeah I I gave them an eight there yeah fair for no real reason yeah I'm sorry say that again no no no I'm just saying I'm not sure why I didn't go higher is what I'm saying I I actually thought I'd given it a nine but when I'm looking at what I wrote down I wrote down an eight okay I don't I don't think anything's wrong with an eight I just I just loved I just loved the colors and everything I saw and the dancing and everything so it was a play and I love plays it was a play shot behind a movie lens so I I've given it a 10 music and sound what do you have there they kind of gave me we we have some really good hitters and then we had some duds so I kind of balanced it out and gave it a five five I have a seven for music and sound okay um it's kind of all over the place I know yeah I know it had a slow start yes but there were some very powerful impactful songs and a lot of good like a lot of the solo performers like none of them really miss aside from aunt Aunt M zone.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Yeah yeah so I gave it a seven cultural impact where did you land on that one this one's always so tough when it's very revealed in the black community but not in overall American culture or cinema.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Yeah it's not like a it's not something you really care about outside of these walls and these fences so I don't want to be I'd have I didn't score this so I'm trying to do I like to go I I went off the cuff on this one because I I figured by the time we get to the end I'll have an answer and I still don't so I I I would say I'm gonna give it a six okay okay I scored it while you were deliberating because I also that was a one score I did not have and I put a seven and because you give it a six I'm okay with my seven if you went low way lower than that I I would have come off the seven but I'm gonna put it at a seven yeah and it is it's hard to place for the same reasons you said but it is an iconic piece of black literature and that matters yeah that a hundred percent matters but it's also not something that's referenced outside of just that space so yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna give it some knocks for that you know whether that's right or wrong so I'm okay with my six and you gave a seven so I'm okay with that yeah all right where we at sir so final scores you gave it a 6.6 and I give it a seven a little bit of difference not too far in our scoring but yeah in the same ballpark yeah that's not too bad well that will do it for our real talk and banter on the whiz to connect with us to give us some feedback or just say hello email us at real talkbanter at gmail.com that's r-e-e l talkbanter at gmail.com thanks for listening all right folks a threefold cord is not easily broken