Reel Talk & Banter
Ever wanted to just sit around and make fun of an old movie with your friends? That's exactly what Reel Talk & Banter is all about. Join best friends Omari Williams and Jay Richardson as they rewatch movies that came out at least a decade ago. It's a mix of a film review and a comedy roast, where they discuss everything from the plot to the terrible acting, and even if the film has stood the test of time. Get ready to laugh and hear some hot takes on your favorite (and least favorite) classic films.
Reel Talk & Banter
Never Help A Guy With A Cast: Silence of the Lambs (1991)
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Hannibal Lecter wins Best Actor with about 16 minutes of screen time, and somehow it still makes perfect sense. We rewatch The Silence of the Lambs (1991) and pull apart the machinery that turns a quiet psychological thriller into one of the most recognizable movies ever made, from its “Big Five” Oscars sweep to the way Jonathan Demme frames every stare like it’s aimed straight at us.
We talk through Clarice Starling as the true center of the story and why it’s wild that an FBI trainee gets pushed into a high-stakes serial killer investigation with so little backup. Along the way, we dig into the movie’s discomfort on purpose: Clarice walking into rooms where she’s the only woman, the constant leering, and the POV camera choices that make those moments feel personal. Then we get into the stuff fans quote forever, but with context: the first Lecter interview, the “Chianti” line, and why the mind games work even when you know they’re coming.
On the case side, we follow the clues that actually sing, like the moth, profiling details, and the way Buffalo Bill is kept offscreen until the film is ready to let him take over. We also call out the moments that feel like cheats, including parts of Lecter’s escape and a few investigation leaps that ask you to just go with it. Finally, we land on the basement showdown, the night-vision tension, and our full ratings across plot, acting, production, sound, and cultural impact.
If you enjoy movie reviews, film analysis, and smart arguments about iconic thrillers, subscribe, share this with a friend who loves the Hannibal Lecter franchise, and leave a rating and review. What score would you give The Silence of the Lambs today?
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Welcome And Why It’s A Classic
SPEAKER_00Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Banter Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Omari Williams.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Jay.
SPEAKER_00Okay, just the first name today. Alright, cool. And today we are discussing the silence of the lambs. 9091 psychological.
SPEAKER_02Alright, folks. We reviewed a lot of classics on the show. This is one of my picks. I think classic is subjective. Some deserve the title, some kind of get grandfathered in because we watched it when we were kids. But Silence of the Lamb has the resume to back it up.
SPEAKER_00It does.
SPEAKER_02As Mari said, came out in 1991, directed by Jonathan Dean.
SPEAKER_00Demo?
SPEAKER_02Yep. Adapted from Thomas Harris's novel. Did you watch? Did you read the novel?
SPEAKER_00I did not read the novel. No.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean we we never read any of these books. I don't know why you keep asking to embarrass me.
SPEAKER_00I think I actually had that book though.
SPEAKER_02I think I did too because I remember the cover. And I just never did anything about it. Yeah. All right. We got Jody Foster. Young Jody Foster. Well, they're all young, but young Jodie Foster, Anthony Hopkins, Scott Glenn, and Ted Levine.
SPEAKER_00Dude, a young and accomplished Jodie Foster. Did you know she already had an Academy Award for this movie? From what? No, the accused.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_00I never heard of it, but she won an Academy Award for Best Actress for that.
SPEAKER_02Nice. She's a big dog.
SPEAKER_00I was like, what the hell? Big dog, but they didn't want her on this.
SPEAKER_02A budget of only 19 million. I mean, that makes sense considering they were nowhere for the whole movie. Which honestly isn't a whole lot. Especially by 1991 standards, but went on to make over 272 million worldwide. That is crazy.
SPEAKER_00That's a success. For a psychological thriller.
SPEAKER_02It's a huge success.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then it did something that no almost no movie has ever done. Right? It has won the big five. Omari, tell us what the big five is.
SPEAKER_00Best picture, best director, best actor, best actress, and best adapted screenplay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That was a quiz. I feel like you're reading, you're cheating. Fail.
SPEAKER_00I had it in my notes.
SPEAKER_02Fail.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did rattle that off way too fast.
SPEAKER_02Way too fast. You could have pretended at least. I don't know. Is it was it a music? He could have done something. But he did.
SPEAKER_00I should have committed to the bit. I apologize. He did. He did. He did it.
SPEAKER_02Only three other movies in history has ever swept all five categories. Can you name the other three?
SPEAKER_00No. I think one was one flew over Cuckoos and S, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't know. I did that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. I think I read I read that, but I don't remember where the other ones are.
SPEAKER_02Um because you answered my question so fast I had to like pivot, but I actually don't have the answer to this.
SPEAKER_00Okay, no. Only two did it. This is the third to do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00One flew over to Cuckoo's Ness, and it happened one night. What happened? I don't know what this is. What movie is that? It happened. Something happened. Freaking unclear pronouns, but whatever. Oh, this is a 1934 film. Yikes.
SPEAKER_02Yikes. I'm gonna make us watch that next week. Probably. There's definitely a burning cross somewhere in that movie.
SPEAKER_00Most likely. Well, hey, it's the National Film Registry by the Library of Congress deemed it as culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant.
SPEAKER_02100% racist. Alright. This is the only horror movie to ever win a best picture, though many don't
Horror Or Psychological Thriller?
SPEAKER_02consider it a true horror. It's uh more of a psychological thriller or crime drama, is where I could go, maybe. Yeah. Do you consider it horror? No. There's no point in this movie where I was scared.
SPEAKER_00Not at all. Well, uh some like anxiety or tension, but that's more psychological. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, horror is that's a stretch, but alright.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, yeah, it could play with it could play within each line, but definitely I would lean more about the stuff like psychological thriller. You have your kind of investigation of a detective story, the suspense of the thriller, and then you have some moments of people eating his labor with uh fava beans.
SPEAKER_00Fava beans. You know he you know he he improvised that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, what about it? What the fuck?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like what I saw that uh the the director was annoyed by it. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02So Anthony Hopkins, one best actor for this movie, but he's actually only on
Hopkins Wins With 16 Minutes
SPEAKER_02screen for about 16 minutes out of a almost an hour and 58-minute movie. Yeah, that is insane.
SPEAKER_00That is nuts, yeah. Uh because this movie is definitely like Anthony Hopkins, like he he gets like the big, you know, billing on this, but it's this is a Jody Foster movie, 100%.
SPEAKER_02Because that's similar to the argument I had with Viola Davis in In Doubt when she was like barely, like she had a strong performance, but she was barely in the movie, and so she got support. It was like, okay, that makes sense that she was you know nominated for that. But like, yeah, I don't know how he slipped that one on there. To the Elbow and win the Academy Award for Best Actor, a performer must deliver an outstanding leading role in a qualifying feature film, it has to be over 40 minutes, and have a seven-day run in theaters in major US markets. So you could literally be in there for like a minute and just have the most outstanding line, I guess, and win.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. I mean, yeah, so I looked up how did he win it, and it doesn't really say it says all it says is that his victory is uniquely historic because he managed to make an iconic lasting impact despite apparent on screen for just over 16 minutes, the shortest screen time of any best actor winner. Yeah, I don't know. But he, I mean, he is super iconic. Like, how many like a lot of his like lines and stuff are quotable? Like the character of Hannibal itself is being like that's he's he's a pop pop culture icon, you know. Like people know him or of him, even if they haven't seen this movie. So I mean he he did his thing, but that is shocking to me.
SPEAKER_02All right, so we already have our first take. He didn't deserve best actor. All right, let's get back to the story. We have Clarice Starling and FBI Clarice. Oh, that was creepy. Did you practice that?
SPEAKER_00No, I just I was off the door, off the rip.
SPEAKER_02Okay, somebody's working on their active chops, okay. An FBI trainee, keep that in
Clarice Gets Thrown Into The Fire
SPEAKER_02mind, folks. A trainee ain't graduate yet, somehow in the middle of this very high-stakes investigation. At Quanaco, who's recruited by Jack Crawford to interview Dr. Hannibal Lecter, a brilliant psychiatrist who also happens to be a cannibalistic serial killer. The hope is that Lecter can help the FBI catch another serial killer who's become known as Buffalo Bill before he claims another victim. Pretty simple premise. Right? Very, very, very tropish. They're always using a bad guy to catch a quote unquote worse bad guy, right?
SPEAKER_00Is did this start the trope or was this continuing it?
SPEAKER_02I I can't think of another instance, but that just might be my lack of knowledge. I don't I don't know if this is the first. It's it's kind of seems like it, but I don't know. I'd have to look into it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02So I've seen pieces of the movies over the years. You know the famous quotes, you know how the mill lector. I knew about put the lotion in a basket, but I never actually sat down and watched the entire movie from beginning to be. No, I've never seen Silence of the Lambs.
SPEAKER_00Holy shit. Oh my god. Okay. Yeah. This must be my third or fourth time watching this.
SPEAKER_02Oh, damn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If I had known that, I would have picked something else. I thought you were with me. I just assumed you were not in it because you're not going to be able to do it.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, I love Silence of the Lambs. I it's not a horror movie, though. I love psychological thrillers, though. Yeah, I love Silence of the Lambs.
SPEAKER_02Damn, I would have picked something else. I didn't even check with you because I just I just automatically assumed you had it so last minute.
SPEAKER_00I could not find that other movie. It was nowhere to be found.
SPEAKER_02Um so I finally did that, and I understand why people still talk about this movie. Was it 35 years now? 35 years later? I do have some I do have some questions. There are some questionable moments there. There were some moments where I had to like literally stop and like, what's happening? Like, how'd we get over here? You know, we're gonna get into all of that. But before we do, sir. Oh well, yeah. Let me change my question then. Since the since you watched it before, when's the last time you saw it? And does it still live up to the hype for you?
SPEAKER_00I think the last time I saw it must have been in the early aughts. Sorry, I started to say aughts. Um, but no, like early college days. I think that's the last time I saw it. And yeah, it still lives up to the hype. I still I still think it's a great movie. I I I love it. I love the franchise. I love the character of Hannibal. I I love the the most recent TV series with Mads Mickelson. Yes, I really like the TV series of Mads Mickelson. I just I think Hannibal's a fascinating character. I think Anthony Hopkins is iconic in this. I think Jordy Foster is freaking amazing in this as well. Um, I think it's a great movie, all in all.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Some positives here. All right. So we get this opening scene. Clarice is just running through an obstacle course through the woods at Quanaco. So we know she's an FBI agent. She's all by herself, she's working while everybody's kind of just doing whatever else. She's kind of determined, she's focused, and all while she's doing that, these very, very annoying opening credits show up. I mean, what why were the
Opening Credits
SPEAKER_02block letterings so large and just taking up the whole screen?
SPEAKER_00Because 90s?
SPEAKER_02It literally felt like Microsoft Word was like introducing every like character analysis. Yeah, PowerPoint. It was like a PowerPoint thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was tough. It was tough.
SPEAKER_02So that's a very annoying opening credits while she's running. You know, she gets up information that Cropper needs her. So she immediately just runs over there. Doesn't shower, doesn't change her clothes. I'm like, everybody else is like put together.
SPEAKER_00The head of the FBI just fresh off the freaking training course.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was like, was this really a jumper? Well, she had no time to go but do you make him wait though?
SPEAKER_00Do you make him wait or do you respond right away? I'm freshening up, bro.
SPEAKER_02At first I thought Clarice would work there already. Again, this is fresh to me. Like I know the story in general, but I don't actually know the details. So I thought she worked there, and then it hit me that she's actually still at Quantum Globe. She's not an she's yeah, just a damn trainee.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So that so they were they were showing us her going through her like trainee stuff to start the movie with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I got I was I was hoping I could see that, but it's fucking block lettering all over it. So I don't know what I was watching.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it was a petty move because that's not how they wanted to open this the movie. Did you see this?
SPEAKER_02No, well, how did they want to open it?
SPEAKER_00You saw the scene after she first met with Hannibal where she was doing like a drug bust, but it was also a training exercise?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So they wanted to open the movie that way, and they were like, nah, like we've had other movies, like other movies have opened this way with the like, oh shit, we're right into action, and it's like, oh no, it's just a training thing or whatever. So they decided not to open with that and to open with her going through the obstacle course on her own or whatever. So maybe somebody was being petty and being like, I like the idea, other idea better. And I guess someone block it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Hey, it's your story. Be petty if you got it in you. I'm all for it.
SPEAKER_00Oh man.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, it's like it's a balance with her being a trainee, right? Because typically, right, trainees aren't thrust in that type of high stakes, high completely nuts. Completely nuts. Okay, right? They're like doing like little like small petty things for a while until they get their feet wet, and she's just she's a student, and they're like, hey, you could probably fix this. And they're like, what? It makes it much more impressive, though.
SPEAKER_00It's like we're gonna hand you we're gonna introduce you to the biggest serial killer of our time to handle the biggest active case or one of the biggest cases of the decade all at one time. Yeah, yeah, let's let's do that. Like, even me knowing this, again, I'm still like, I cannot believe they pulled a not a rookie, not a rookie, a trainee to go speak to Hannibal Lecter and try and solve this case. That is absurd. Absurd.
SPEAKER_02And it seems like she didn't really have any like credentials to back it up. Like, I mean, they started out with, you know, I met you at this conference. I was like, okay, and then she's like, yeah, you're top of your class, like, yeah. And I okay, like, what?
SPEAKER_00That's it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like, yeah, we don't think we're gonna get anything out of him, so you should try. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Even Clarice asks the question of like, hello, why me? And I'm like, yeah. But Homeboy doesn't even answer it, he just starts talking about something else. I'm like, oh, okay. So not a veteran investigator, not once he's a negotiator, just you, the student. I I didn't really, I don't really know what they were doing, or I mean it ultimately it worked somehow, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00There might be, and this is where so I've seen I've seen Silence of the Alarm, like I said a few times. I've seen Red Dragon for sure, which is a prequel film, but I don't think I've seen I don't think I've seen Hannibal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think I've seen Hannibal or Hannibal Horizon. So I think I've just seen like Red Dragon. So it could be maybe there's something like in his past that would have softened him to Clarice, you know, like they're laying some groundwork for like future movies or something, but I can't say definitively because I can't really remember those films off the top of my head.
SPEAKER_02That's fine.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, we eventually towards the end, we do get a little bit of an answer where he you know shares that he thinks that Claire is exactly the kind of person Lecter would, you know, talk to. So maybe there is something in the past that she reminds him of something, something. Crawford does mention, you know, if he sent another FBI guy in a suit, Hannibal will just toy with him and it'd be bored in 30 seconds. But yeah, Claire's different, she's pretty, she's young, she's ambitious, she's intelligent, she's curious.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, yeah, she's definitely trying to try to turn him, throw him off his game for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. One of the things that I noticed pretty strongly is in almost all of the scenes, Claire, when she walks into the room, she is the only woman. And all the men, regardless of profession, are always leering at her. And it's just so off-putting. I'm like, what the fuck is happening? Like, they all act like they've never seen a woman before.
SPEAKER_00Listen, it it got so bad in the West Virginia one that I started to try to do a deep dive. I'm like, when the fuck did women start serving as police officers in West Virginia?
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, it does, it makes sense with like law enforcement, but it almost felt like there are no women in the movie at all, except for her. Yeah, yeah, which is except for the women that were murdered. They were either victims or her.
SPEAKER_00I mean her one friend.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes, yes, there was the one the other trainee who kind of sprinkled in here and there. Yes, fine.
SPEAKER_00But they had they gave her an amazing scene when she ran down the fucking hall.
SPEAKER_02She did.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, this is this has to be like the the 13th take, and there was like, let's just keep it, man. We can't we can't keep filming her run down this hall. Like this one. Let's just move on. No, I don't want to talk shit about our sister. She did really great. She was amazing. But I I I'm wondering if part of why you felt part why you felt is because of the way they filmed it. I don't know if you picked up on it, but every time she was someone was speaking to her, they had them look directly into the camera.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they were doing that so that we could kind of feel her point of view. Yep. You know? So, and when she was talking, it wasn't like that direct. So that that probably add to the like the grossness of it all, where it's just like these dudes are just like staring through her because of how they filmed it, which is pretty dope.
SPEAKER_02Even when we talked to to Dr. Chilton, right? Like he said, he first almost immediately, not almost immediately, as soon as she gets there, he's hitting on her. And she, I'm like, what the fuck? This is a professional setting right now. Like she's here for one job. You're in the basement of a prison. Like, this is not the time to do this. Like, come on, bro.
SPEAKER_00But after she essentially sorry, you're about to go talk to a serial killer that eats people. Like, come on, man. This is not the time or place.
SPEAKER_02This is not the time or place for this. And then after she he kind of rejects it, I'm sorry, she kind of she rejects him, then you could feel him kind of getting a little angry or whatever, and a little like kind of like tense. And she's like, Oh well, why'd you bring me down here then? And she's like, Oh, you know, I just you know, the pleasure of your company, you know, I needed that. I was like, all right. And he's like, Oh, yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we get Clarice over to the Baltimore State Hospital for the Criminally Insane. It didn't really look like a hospital, it looked like a just a prison in the basement. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is that a hospital the whole time?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was this Baltimore State
Was that a hospital?
SPEAKER_02Hospital for the Criminally Insane. Okay. Now we finally get to Mr. Hannibal Lecter. We've seen this scene referenced your entire life. You've seen the memes, you've seen the quotes, you know Anthony Hapkins was legendary. And again, sitting down and watching this introduction, I finally understood why. When he finally steps forward and you could see the light shift from you know, his face is kind of half covered, but it kind of shifts and he's full in the screen. And then, as you said, how they shot it with it pretty much just being his face in your face, it's like, oh, you almost have to take a step back. You're like, God damn it. Why are you standing like that?
SPEAKER_00He was just standing there, yeah. It was it was definitely unnerving.
SPEAKER_02He's just standing there, perfect posture, hands behind his back, just waiting, almost like he knew exactly what time Sv was gonna show up, right? Mm-hmm. And it kind of makes him like terrifying. Like this whole time I was watching, I was like, does this man have powers? Like, what how the f well what is he doing? How does he know this? Like, what is happening? Yeah, like I can understand reading people, but he was damn near like clairvoyant. And I was like, this I don't know.
SPEAKER_00That's one of the that's one of the the beauties about the character of Hannibal Lecter. And I did see that Hopkins also asked for this to be in a portrayal, but he always like makes you like he always is portrayed as he just he knows everything. Like he's you know, like omniscient, he knows everything that's going on, he he's always several steps ahead of you, and that alone is what makes him terrifying because you the Like you don't even know what he's about to do, yet he's already figured out what you're going to do, you know? Yeah. And like that's one of the key aspects of that character in the different portrayals of him. I I I for me personally, I re I love an intelligent villain, you know? One that's not just twirling his mustache and just evil for evil's sake. Like he is more, he's like a chaotic evil, you know, but the intelligence that's accompanied with it, it just makes him so fascinating as a as a character. It's almost charming. Like you're like, fuck, like you like, he might be an interesting dude to like talk to, but at the same time, he's very terrifying, and you would never ever want to be in a room with him.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, no, he's definitely gonna eat your face. Like, I don't I don't want to uh chance that. Yeah, so dude is like the smartest person in a room, and it's even it's even more terrifying because of how they shot the movie, where it feels like he's talking to us instead of Clarice. Clarice is kind of like the vessel, but it's really us there. He's studying our faces, our reactions, and it's like you're the person being interviewed. Let's really get into this conversation, right? This is the first conversation. Hannibal between Hannibal and Clarice, of course. Hannibal never raises his voice, he never threatens Clarice, he never says, I'm gonna kill you. He just dissects her. We already kind of talked about it, but psychologically, every question she asks, he answers with another question. Every time she thinks she's in control, he flips the conversation back onto her. But at the end of the interview, Clarice came looking for information. Instead, she's the one being analyzed. She's literally when she leaves, she's outside crying. I'm like, God damn. Like, I mean, it was bad, but I don't know if it was that bad.
SPEAKER_00No, well, hold on, time out. She took a cum shot to the face.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. That's a bit like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a shit. I didn't get there yet. I was talking about a conversation. So within the first conversation, which I thought that this line was more towards the end. I didn't realize it was like in the beginning, but now that I know that, or now that I see that Anthony Hopkins was only the damn movie 16 minutes, like I don't know where else you could put it. So we get the final famous line. I ate his liver with some papa beans and a nice Chianti. Have you ever had a Chianti?
SPEAKER_00Is that a I believe it's pronounced Chianti?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Chianti? I'm sorry, C H you're right. You ever had a Chianti? That's Italian.
SPEAKER_00I have not, no. Have you?
SPEAKER_02Is that like a wine or something?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yeah, it is a wine. Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Alright, cool. Well, that ends wine corner.
SPEAKER_02It's funny because like if somebody else said it, you'd probably be like, what? But the way Hopkins delivers it, he's describing cannibalism like you're eating like a five-course meal at a like famous restaurant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And he's just recommending like the chef's special. Oh, we should try this. You're like, I'm sorry. Is this Amanda here? What is this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no. I yeah, that that line, definitely one of many iconic, quotable lines from the movie. Uh, what I found interesting in the conversation is Clarice lying to him from the very jump when when he started to question her about like, oh, like Jack sent a trainee here, and she says to him, I'm here to learn from you. And Cannibal gave her a look and said something where he didn't bite a lie for one minute, but he was like, Okay, he's sizing her up because he's trying to figure out because at the end of the day, while he feels like Jack is nuts for sending this trainee to him, at the same time, I think he does have some respect for Jack. So he's like, What the fuck is Jack up to? Like, why is he sending this chick, you know, like she's she's green as all hell? Why is he sending? So he's trying to read her and he he does develop an affinity for her and and and some type of crazy serial killer respect for her. But when she told that lie at first, he was like, and then when she was like, Segway, here's my forms. Can you fill these out? And he was like, Miss, like we were having a fun conversation here, and now you kind of fucked it up with your stupid forms, you know. So it it was good to see that one, Clarice may be a little more tactful or a more clever than some of the other agents that were coming in to speak to him, yeah, but she's still not quite there, you know. Oh no, absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And how could you expect her to be? I mean, you know, you need field experience to get there. Well, her first feel experience, someone threw cum in her face. Like, you know, I I I'd have quit. I'd have quit that day. I'm gonna be very, very honest with you. I'd have quit that day.
SPEAKER_00I wrote, I wrote, if that doesn't make you quit your job on day one, I don't know what will. Yeah, I really don't. And then I saw her crying a lot when we cry it out. Yeah, she's a lifer because that is crazy work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so we already kind of hinted at it. So we have Miggs, Miggs is back. I don't know why she stops to talk to Miggs for whatever reason. I'd have jetted my ass through that hallway. I don't know why she was walking so slowly. Miggs throws his his deposit on her, directly in her face, to be not just on her, but on her face. In her fucking eye, man. In her eye, yeah. How I first of all, that's an immediate workplace incident report. Like, I don't know how she's still in the feel off of that. It's still in that. Like, you could go to the doctor and get checked out. Like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Um, but she just cries it out a little bit in in the in the in the parking lot, and then I guess just goes about her day. I don't even know if she talks to anybody about it. But something really interesting happens here, I think, because of what you just said of his affinity for Hannibal actually gets angry. Mabe's kind of ruined the conversation, and that tells you something about Hannibal. He doesn't see clear Clarice the way everybody else kind of does in the prison. He's fascinated by her, she's a puzzle and he wants to figure it out. And somebody else just interrupted his game.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And because of that, makes it no more. Makes it no more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he never really debased her. I think he did make like a comment, he made a couple comments about her sexuality or her being a female, but it was never from the standpoint of him wanting to make a move at her. It was about how other people maybe visualizing her were treating her. And it was also to kind of like throw off her game a little bit, but he never like made advances towards her, you know, he never made their things sexual. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Alright. So Clarissa's finished meeting with Hannibal. I figure she'd just take her little notes and you know hand it off and be like, you know, professors got it from here. But nope, nope. She is the lead now. Again, no partner, no real debrief, nothing. Just like, okay, well.
SPEAKER_00No badge. No badge. No
Clarice does not have a badge
SPEAKER_00badge. She's not an FBI agent.
SPEAKER_02I will say this. It's interesting because they're doing both things at the same time. They're kind of like hat, they're kind of reducing her to, oh, she's just a woman, but also he's putting up a lot of trust in her to like do this. I mean, he's evaluating her. He knows she's smart. He he knows she notices things about other people. He knows Hannibal wants to deal with her. Not Parford, not Chilton, not anybody else. So Parford almost has no choice but to let her go, but also he could have pulled a bug if he wanted to, and send another agent or send someone with her.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he never lost faith in her.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. He doesn't, which is interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um although he was kind of manipulating her at first because he sent her into the jail expecting her to get information about Buffalo Bill, but never told her that. So there was a little bit of manipulation on his part as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, he did kind of yada yada it around and say that he didn't want her to know that because then Hannibal Lecter would immediately, you know, smell that on her and shut down, toy with her a little bit and then turn to stone, I think he said.
SPEAKER_00So it was like but listen, her first interaction with Hannibal led to like the results that she got some information, tangible information from him.
SPEAKER_02So thank God she's good at anagrams because I'd have been like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00I know. Do I love anagrams? I'm not I'm terrible at them. Like you can't just play an anagram, and I'm yeah, I love the idea of anagrams. I wish I was good at them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like if you gave me an anagram and said, hey, this is an anagram, I'd be like, oh, okay, but if you just give me some name, I'm not gonna be like, oh, this actually means the world is ending. I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_00This is clearly an anagram. Okay, you sly sly goose. Like, no, I might never figure that out.
SPEAKER_02I'd be like, oh, I guess I'm looking at the crazy.
SPEAKER_00I'll be Hester Muffet? Yeah. Hester Moffat is Hester Muffet here. Like, is there Hester Muffet in the crowd? But okay, that Hester Muffet thing though, because it wasn't just the anagram, because she was all like, okay, well, also he said these words. I can't remember what the words were, but then I led her to our storage facilities in Baltimore, and I was like, I was like, get the fuck out of here, dude. Bro, like, what do you think?
SPEAKER_02Bro, that's one of the parts I was like, how the fuck did she get there? I was like, there was nothing in that conversation that pointed to this storage facility for me. I didn't, I don't know if I I don't know if I was like, no, it was just going over my head, but Oh, it was yourself.
SPEAKER_00He said the word yourself. She was like, because of that, I don't know, it led to like some self-storage place. I was like, Clarice, stop. Clarice is also clairvoyant because there's no way. Okay, so Clarice is a genius, got you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she's also genius level. Yeah, we don't know how, but she's she's just she's she's dropping dimes, so cool. Clarice finally makes it to now we're at the funeral home scene, right? Clarice gets to examine one of Buffalo Bill's victims. I I don't know why Buffalo Bill's victim was at a random funeral home.
SPEAKER_00That that was weird to me. Because so they fished her out of whatever lake or river, the river or whatever, and they included all that debris with her. And so I'm like, so you're telling me that the forensic pathologist has not looked at his fucking body at all? Because they they're like looking at it fresh with all the debris and everything on there, and it's it's clearly tied to that serial killer case, but it's in some random morgue in Clark County, West Virginia? Like, what was happening here?
SPEAKER_02I I don't know. That's I'm that's why I'm pointing that's why my damn introduction was so confusing because I'm also kind of confused. I was like, I who why are we at this random funeral home here instead of the FBI's medical examiner's office like that has the appropriate tools to examine them? And then why are they examining and touching things and removing evidence and all these things? They're like, at one time he takes a picture of her teeth and he's like, Oh yeah, I'll use this to identify her. I'm like, from a picture? How the fuck how the fuck do you do that? Like, what?
unknownWhat the fuck?
SPEAKER_02He didn't take he didn't take a mold. He's like, oh yeah, I'm gonna just take some pictures of the teeth and help me identify her. I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_00What the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Listen, since when can you do that? Homeboy opened her homeboy opened the mouth of the the victim, took a picture, but didn't realize the gigantic fucking cocoon sitting in his throat. But she did from I don't know across the street.
SPEAKER_00And I don't think she should have noticed that either, though. I don't think so either. Yeah, she's like, oh what's in what what what's in her throat there? I'm like, why the fuck are you looking at her throat, dog? Like her mouth is barely even open. Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But they pull the moth cocoon out, and this is where we actually we I love this clue, right? You first this is the first time you really kind of get some investigation. It's more than just finding a killer. It's you start to get into understanding who Buffalo Bill is. Like, why is there a moth in here? Why leave it in here?
SPEAKER_00The profile.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, why is a specific species? Where's it coming from? The clues aren't random, everything kind of means something. At that point, it was it him and his random anagrams were just kind of random to me, but but yeah, when we start to get into the physical evidence, it was very helpful. And I appreciated about this movie. Because it makes you like God, these members of like detectives too. They're not spoon feeding you any answers. I mean, I wasn't I able to identify the fucking bug thing at all, but yeah. The storage unit thing kind of comes back up again because all these random ass, I wanna say not quotes, but random ass quotes slash clues, the lines we're getting, how do you miss the rest of me? I said, How the hell does that mean Buffalo Bill rented his garage? Did somebody know he was doing all this? Did I miss something? You have Hannibal Electra kind of dropping these little riddles, all good things to those who wait. He never gives clues the answer, he just snudges her in the right direction, half the time, like, yo, just say what you mean. Like, what why are we doing all this? But then, you know, it would kind of take away from the thriller part of it.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Um Do you think Hannibal knew exactly who Buffalo Bill was this whole time?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think so.
SPEAKER_00I think the only thing that I would have liked to know, unless I missed it, so tell me if you picked it up, is how did he know Buffalo Bill? James Gam, I guess is his name. Like what was their connection?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. He was just like kind of traced with a man that Buffalo Bill was dating, and then I can't remember his name, but yeah, Buffalo Bill, and then the man was kind of frightened a little bit about whatever things Buffalo Bill was saying, so he recommended he see Hannibal Lecter. That's how Hannibal Lecter was able to describe him exactly, you know, 180, 580, blue eyes. So we have this, we have so many different things happening all
Finally Buffalo Bill
SPEAKER_02the same time. And then we finally get Buffalo Bill entering the chat, right? So we're hunting Buffalo Bill, but we never even actually see him. At this point, he's kind of like a ghost. Everybody's talking about him. We're seeing the aftermath what he's done, they're examining bodies, but you haven't actually spent any time with him. I think that's intentional, right? The movie kind of wants you to focus on Hannibal for a while. Like you almost forget that Buffalo Bill is out there killing, because you're like, well, what is Hannibal doing?
SPEAKER_00He's in the background. Yeah, yeah, he's in the background for the first part of the movie for sure.
SPEAKER_02It almost makes it almost makes you feel like Hannibal is like somehow escaping, killing people and then coming back. Because it's like you're so focused on Hannibal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But then yeah, once you get comfortable that Hannibal is there, they throw out, oh yeah, by the way, there's another killer out there. And that's who we're actually trying to catch.
SPEAKER_00And there were news articles like all over the place and stuff. So there were little Easter eggs that you know a real villain of the show. It's not Hannibal, it's definitely Buffalo Bill. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah, because it confused the first opening scene, it confused me again because I didn't realize that she was just a student. Because when she walked into the office, I think that's where we had a bunch of clippings about Buffalo Bills, and there were some body pictures and stuff like that. She kind of was a little taken aback, and I was like, has she not seen this before? Like, is she why is she confused? And then I realized, oh, she's a student. She has not seen this before. So, all right, whatever. Alright, so yeah, Buffalo Bill is in action, stalking. He decides. I don't know how he well, he kind of picks his victims based on sizes, like their body size. But yeah, he was stalking this woman. He has a brilliant scene of how to kidnap her. To be honest, it probably would have worked on me. I would have helped too. I would have probably helped. And then, yeah, I got taken. I'm like, God damn it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's bad. That's on me, party foul. That's on me. God damn it. Sorry, sorry, friends and loved ones. I got myself taken. Yes. Yep, yep, yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He's not offering candy or like, look at my puppy. It's like all the furniture. Dude has a cast on his hand. It's like, oh shit, my bad. I got you, bruh. All of a sudden, he he clocked the shit out of her with that cast. I was like, God damn.
SPEAKER_00Hey, you heard a hair first, guys. Never help anyone ever.
SPEAKER_02That is the moral of the story. Don't help anyone. In fact, kick them while they're down. Get the shit out of here.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00When they revealed, when they found the body, not Catherine's, obviously they didn't find Catherine's, but when they found the body, right? And they were talking about what happened. So I thought that Catherine died right away, right? I forgot that she was the one that was being held in the movie, you know? So when they found the body and there was like, oh, no physical abuse, all the damage was caused post-mortem. I was like, what about all those punches to her face? Like, because he hit the shit he beat the shit out of her with that cast when he captured her. But then I realized that that wasn't Catherine's body they found. So but I'm like, he's knocking these women out to capture them. Like, there's some damage on these fucking bodies. Yeah. Uh perimortem, but whatever.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but I guess it's not significant enough. I guess they're more, they're probably more focused on like maybe sexual abuse and you know other types of abuse.
SPEAKER_00But you would see bruising on the face, man. Like that, because that all goes to the building the profile and to like how these women are being abducted. Well, yeah, it was a blow to the fucking head before they died that knocked him out. And that you know what I'm saying? So like that that all of that is evidence. So for them to be like, oh, there was no, there was no bruises until she was after she was killed. I'm like, so what are you saying? He drugged them to take them, like that's what that would lead you to believe as an investigator, you know.
SPEAKER_01I got you.
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying that's just incomplete. Like that that doesn't make sense, but whatever. Nitpick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it's just it's got you. I got you. Yeah, she's he sucks. They suck. He's chasing the wrong guy because they don't want to say that he she got hit in the face. So yeah, Katherine Martin ends up in a well. Yes, uh, just she she's annoyed, she's confused, she's terrified. She has this, she does a great job. I I felt it when she was screaming for her mom again. I was like, oh, yeah, someone helped that woman. Um then we finally get one in another movie called Everybody Knows, it rubs the lotion on its skin.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yep. You're not um I'm not gonna ouch you that that your your references are from Family Guy, but I know where you got your references from.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, right? Oh yeah, seeing it in context is definitely a little bit darker than I expected. It's psychological torture. Buffalo Bill is you know, he's obviously removed from this person as a person, they're just like a vessel for him, for his skin.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Project. I did laugh a couple times in this movie though. Really? One of the times I did, fucked up. Sorry. But so he's doing the whole it puts the lotion itself, and he's like being like all like removed from like reality and stuff, and he's like, Oh, it puts the lotion in the basket, and she's like, Oh my mom, my mama, and he's like, put the fucking lotion in the basket. I was like, Oh my god. Oh my god, he completely dropped the act. He was like, God, you just ruined everything. He got so mad at her. Oh my god. That was one of the terms I laughed in the movie.
SPEAKER_02More precious, the freaking dog. The dog is uh important character here.
SPEAKER_00She's a psychopath too. Yeah, she's threatening that dog's life. I know. I don't think she would have killed it. She was just trying to get him to, you know. I would have killed a dog.
SPEAKER_02Damn. But you can't kill your leverage. How is why are you gonna keep you alive now at this point?
SPEAKER_00That's true. Like if I know I'm gonna die anyway.
SPEAKER_02Fuck your dog. You're taking a dog too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh while this is happening, they the movie sucks you in so much, and you kind of forget other things that are still happening in the background. So Clarissa's still chasing clues. Every man that she talks to is still doubting her or trying to explain her own job to her, stares at her. It's just can one person just make this shit not weird?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, that's when I wrote that has have these guys never seen a woman before? Like, I wrote that in my notes. Yeah, yeah, it was weird on off-putting. When I first immediately when I met Chilton, when we were introduced to him, I was like, dude, this guy needs to be locked up too. I mean, the only thing different, like the reason he hasn't like committed any crimes or anything, is because like he has like some type of badge, credentials, and status, you know. So, but I was like, he's not very different from some of these guys that are in this prison. He just, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it turns out that Catherine is also the daughter of a United States
Senator Pressure And Lecter’s Leverage
SPEAKER_02senator. Um, so this is national news, everybody's talking about it, the pressure goes through the roof. So this is where Hannah will kind of relax. He does. Damn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So the FBI is under pressure because of this. The senator is desperate. Hannibal knows that his his word is essentially gold right now because he he understands the mind of a spherical killer in a way that nobody else does. So he's attempting to use that word in his own language. He starts making his demands, right? He says he's tired of sitting in his like four walls, no windows. He wanna be able to see outside. He didn't even ask like I want to be like go. He still just wanna see outside. Like I want to be moved, I don't want to be here anymore. Because Chiltern had to have been abusing them, like, as you said. I think something's wrong with him. So he's definitely abusing them and not feeding him appropriately, whatever. So yeah, man, just want to see outside. So he tries to work that out. Do you agree? Do you think that does is that on brand? Because you're you're very into the series. Is that on brand that he doesn't actually let out? He's just like, I just want a better room, some books, a view, a little bit deal.
SPEAKER_00I think I think Bohan Hannibal is that he is a pragmatist, also, you know, he's a realist. He understands his situation. Why ask for something that you know you're not going to get, you know? And then he's also an opportunist, right? So literally just asking for a transfer, what that does is present many opportunities for a potential escape, right? So that's where he's trusting what his intelligence and his ability to seize whatever opportunity, he's trusting those things and trusting that he's smarter than whoever he's dealing with. So if an opportunity arises, he's confident he will be able to maximize that opportunity in the best way possible, which he obviously was able to do. But yeah, that's something like his intelligence is definitely one of his most scariest traits. Just the yeah, just that level to analyze the situation and and predict, you know, scenarios and then take advantage of them.
SPEAKER_02Okay, okay. All right, so we finally get to in what I don't know, this is a second or third conversation at this point, but either way, we finally get to why the movie's called The Silence
The Silence Of The Lambs Explained
SPEAKER_02of the Lambs, right? And I love this scene. This is the third meeting. Okay. Yeah. Because up until this point, except for the come in the face, Chris has been kind of incredibly composed. She answers every question. She's very, you know, she's moving forward, she's getting clues, she's finding things that people are other missing, that other people are missing. And then Hannibal reels it back and starts asking about her childhood. And the walls come down. She tells him about hearing the lamb screaming before they were slaughtered. She tried to, she she was with her parents died young at two different times. Her father was a some kind of sheriff and was shot by robbers, she said, right? And then she just said her mom died, I think I don't remember what, but either way, they died.
SPEAKER_00Prior to that, though.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but she didn't say it was like cancer, just no, she didn't know whatever. Um maybe she was a I I feel like she's a she was a drug addict. She just didn't want to sweep it.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. I thought she got sick, but okay, sure.
SPEAKER_02She's living with some family members, and they have a farm that has lamb, and she might either wait. And she could hear the lamb screaming before they were slaughtered. And they kept her up. She tried to save one, she tried to run away, she tried to run away with one, and realized she's like 10 at this time, realized how fucking heavy lambs are, I'm sure. So she couldn't. She only got a few miles before she was picked up by the the sheriff there. And then she notes that the lamb they killed the lamb. I'm like, damn, did they do it in front of her? Like, how the fuck do they know what they did with the lamb? I had to see. Like, she knows. Because according to her, she left after that. So bam, they just like nah just because. Because that's kind of fucked up. So yeah, it kind of dives a little bit deeper into why she's doing this, why she's so motivated. Less more about Buffalo Bill and more just about saving Catherine. Because potentially, if she saves this girl, we, you know, maybe the screaming will stop. Because she wasn't able to save the lambs. I mean, if she saves this girl, the screaming will stop. But she noted it kind of keeps her up at night, even to this day, you know, maybe 10-15 years later. Yeah. So without this conversation, the title really doesn't mean much. Because I thought the title was really in reference to the moth or something, because you know the picture had the moth on it. But so I didn't know what it meant until she we had that conversation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The imagery of the title poster thing, it's definitely incongruous to like what is happening. What is this movie about? Anthony Hopkins, when they asked him to be in Sense of the Lambs, he asked, Is this a children's story? And then he read like the first 10 pages and he was like, This is amazing. I want to do it, you know? Nice. Um, that that story, very haunting. Jody Foster crushes it, the delivery of it. One of the key things that I want to add to that that she had mentioned was in trying to save the lamb. She opened the the the pen, she opened the gate so they could run out. And they just they didn't, they just stared at her. Yeah. You know, and like that whole thing there of like trying to save someone and then they not wanting to save themselves, right? Is like that really hit home. I was like, whoo, I was like, that's that's a bar. And then yeah, she tried to save the one lamb and just couldn't even make it far. I think she said she made it a few miles though, which yeah, she said a few miles, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Or a struggling lamb against her body, like because I'm sure it wasn't like, oh, let's go.
SPEAKER_00Dude, I don't know how she carried that thing because, like, like, depending on what we're talking about here, a lamb, like isn't that thing could have been like 30, 40 pounds, easy, you know? So so anyway, so she she talks about that, and it's when you get to the end, which I'm not gonna spoil it, but just trying to save Katherine, and Catherine's just fucking screaming. She won't shut the hell up.
SPEAKER_02I was like, oh my fucking God, shut up. Why are you alerting?
SPEAKER_00Dude, I wrote in my notes, Catherine, shut the fuck up. I what I would have died if Jordy Foster said to her, Shut the fuck up, Catherine. Like, you're you're way too loud right now. But there, but there it goes, right? Like just the lamb screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming. And it's like, I'm trying to save you. I am trying to save you. Actively trying to help you right now. Powerful shit.
SPEAKER_01Don't live me, don't listen.
SPEAKER_02She's there. She's like a bitch. But yeah, that fucking bitch threw me. I'm like, get the fuck out of here when I'm trying to save you actively.
SPEAKER_00So I was trying to, I don't know how I could put myself in this situation, but I'm like, would I I feel like I'd have been so like pliant and just been compliant and been like, okay, yes, ma'am, whatever you want me to do. Like, okay, all right, please save me. You know, like I don't feel like I would be like screaming at my my my savior and calling them names and stuff. Like, I would have to trust that they're gonna be able to get me out of there. Yeah, I have no other choice, you know. Either that or they end up in the hole with you. I mean, but or that.
SPEAKER_02I guess at least we have a friend now. I don't,
The Pen Trick And The Escape
SPEAKER_02but so a little bit before this happened, that section we just talked about, we have another magic scene happen where because of Chilton decides that he wants to be more involved for whatever reason, he wants the glory. He walks into the scene, he walks into the cell, tells again, like you said, we talk tells Annal that the deal is not real, but he has his own deal that he, you know, helped broker. Again, he's just looking out for himself. But while he's there, he leaves a pen on the bed. Now, at this time, Hannibal Lecter is fully restrained, like in a restrained jacket with a mask over his face, or a half mask kind of over his face, like strapped to a board with wheels. How in the fuck did he get this pen?
SPEAKER_00Telekinesis.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so he was he is magic. Okay, so I just I just wanted someone else to confirm. Yep, because that's it.
SPEAKER_00That's it. Because it's either that or you're saying that they unstrapped him and untied him before removing him from the cell and then retied him up. No, that doesn't make sense either. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02So Mann's gets his cell. He gets his his cell with his window. It's it's a bigger box. He's got some space, he's got a little bit more freedom. He has he has like a little bit of a library type situation in there. There are several books in there. And even the food he got. I was like, oh, a decent ass meal. Like, I was like, oh, okay. Fucking lamb chops.
SPEAKER_01Like, oh god.
SPEAKER_02Some veggies and some mashed potatoes. I was like, oh he was getting fed like he was on death row. And I was like, I don't know. I'm pretty sure West Virginia has death penalty, right? At that time. Oh, they're backward ass.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do.
SPEAKER_02So I don't know if he was like waiting. Well, no, he's criminally insane, so you can't execute somebody who's criminally insane. Okay. So I guess I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, he's not in jail, huh? God, that still doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's criminally insane. He's in a hospital, so he needs to allow his life.
SPEAKER_00He's not criminally, he is not criminal. Stop. He is not criminally insane. He was deemed it, and that's why he's locked up in a hospital. I keep thinking he's in jail. He is not criminally insane. He knows right from wrong. He knows what that is not how that is not how insanity works in law enforcement. It's just, it's not.
SPEAKER_02The man had a hell of a he either put it on right and he had a hell of a lawyer. I guess they were just like, your crimes are so heinous, I can't fathom a human of the right mind could do this. So you must be criminally insane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I guess. I guess that's it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You know when humans don't understand, they just kind of lock it away. Like, yeah, let's just put that over here. Let somebody else deal with that. But yes, no, he never he never shows any signs of insanity. It was pure genius. But yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. 100%.
SPEAKER_02So we we get the guards being arrogant again, how they handle Hannibal. For some reason, though they had two guards, both guards walked into the cage instead of somebody standing outside of the cage and like, you know, having a gun trained on him.
SPEAKER_00Um exactly.
SPEAKER_02Hannibal escapes. Hannibal uses the pen, the aforementioned pen that we've been talking about, and just what he does, and I don't know how. Somehow, I don't know. I missed the part. Uh somehow he gets one of the guards locked up with their own cuffs. I mean, I know he did it, but I I didn't see how he got the cuff in his hand, but okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because remember he was handcuffed to the thing, so he used the to the kid to the cell. So he used the pen to somehow pick the lock and get free of the handcuffs.
SPEAKER_02No, that's how he got the cuffs in his hand.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah, then he used that handcuff to handcuff him to the thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So while one cop is handcuffed, the other cop is lotting. I don't know what he's doing, but he's getting his face eaten at this point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what happened? He handcuffed the one dude first. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So what the other dude was doing.
SPEAKER_00I guess he just did it so quickly. I guess super speed is one of his like powers. Okay, so okay.
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't know what to say about this movie at this point now. We're just gonna yada yada, super speed, yada yada, superhuman, yada yada, super mine. Uh so for anyone who hasn't seen the movie, which I think most of the population has, Annable is trying to get out, obviously. So he cuts off one of the guards' face and puts it in his own face, and then, you know, kind of puts some blood on him so he appears injured. So they assume that's a guard that's on the floor, so they like strap him up to get him. They're like, oh, we gotta save this guy, he's still alive, let's get him, let's get him. You know, it's all all hands on deck because it's a police officer that's down, um, even though it's technically Hannibal Lecter wearing the police officer's face. I think if anybody had done any kind of like assessment of just they would have quickly seen that one cop was inches away from his face.
SPEAKER_00Inches and he couldn't tell that that was like this is somebody wearing someone's face. Never mind the fact that when the paramedics got there and they wrapped up his face because how bad it was beaten up, no one noticed his face is kind of sliding around a little bit here, like Joe sliding around a little bit, kills me, bro.
SPEAKER_01That shit.
SPEAKER_02It was a little silly, it really was yada yada that that escape because yeah, yeah. After he escapes, I almost completely forget the man exists. Because now we're back to Buffalo Bill. And it's like, oh yeah, we are supposed to be talking about Buffalo Bill.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what it's about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I was like, I didn't think about anything about like what the hell Hannibal is doing at this point. I'm just like, oh well, I guess he's gone. I don't I don't know what they're doing.
The Raid Fakeout And Final Showdown
SPEAKER_02So Cruelford and FBI, they they're convinced that they figured everything out, they got a suspect, they got a house, everybody loads up, fans are rolling, planes are rolling, tactical teams are running in, they're kicking the door, they're ready to kick in the door, and of course, we're like, yo, this is way too easy. Like, come on. At the same time that they're getting ready to get a position to surround this house and get in there. We have the music is building a little bit, everybody's trying to sit, and then the doorbell rings. Except it's everybody stand there, it's Clarice.
SPEAKER_00You're good at that. That's really good. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02And it's Clarice again by herself.
SPEAKER_00So, what did you think about the fake out? Did you like it, or were you like not as predictable? Or yeah, no, I was that was predictable. I was already on it. So I don't is I liked it though. I like that shit. So, but uh my thing is I'm just wondering like, are they the first to do it? It seems predictable now because you're watching a 30 hour movie like today, after we've had 30 years of people doing it. That's true, yeah. I was just wondering if other people use that. It probably had to have happened though. But I I liked it, I thought it was pretty cool. I thought it was cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean it I had nothing wrong with it. I think it was appropriate. I didn't, but I just I I read it. But again, maybe it's from my knowledge of the fact that yeah, it's kind of like the thing now, but it felt like it was like it was too it felt like it was too easy. Oh, we figured it out, we know who exactly what it is, and everybody's rushing to one spot, and then you have the one other person going to the other spot is like okay.
SPEAKER_00Did you think that was bullshit when he was like, yo, man, like like you know, we'll never forget like the work that you put in towards making this and we couldn't do this without you. I'm like, so why the fuck are you on a plane about to go catch a guy and you didn't? The only reason you're telling me this because I called you just now. That shit pissed me off. I was like, dude, she did all this legwork, and you were literally on a plane about to go apprehend this guy, and only reason you're saying is because she called you and caught you doing it. Like, that was so fucked up. Yeah, yeah. They definitely did the whole, like you could see the the inequality with her being a woman, just how she was treated throughout the film. Yeah, it it kept Crip popping up.
SPEAKER_02So we finally get to the end here. But Buffalo Bill opens the door, Ted Lean. I gotta give him his flowers here. Anthony Hopkins gets some of the praise, but Ted Lean was in his bag, like he just was creepy, completely different with him enough. Yeah, we have not because he was barely on scene and he was barely there, but also, you know, I think Alpha is also barely there. So I guess I I guess so. But I don't know, but yeah, he was just in his bag. He doesn't he doesn't have Hannibal's like intelligence of elegance. He's um he's unpredictable. You don't know if he's about to like smile, try out, cry, kill somebody. He was just like everywhere, and I was there for it. I I love Pedlomina. His his was he nominated for supporting?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if he was nominated, I didn't see that. But why say he deserved it? Yeah, for supporting, he still could have gotten it because I think Hopkins didn't get supported. This is true. This is true. So this brings me to the second time I laughed out loud in this movie, right? And when when Clarice makes her way inside the house and he's like, Oh, yeah, let me go get the card of the person that you're looking for. And he's like looking for the card, and he's like, Yeah, come come come over here and I'll give you the card. And Clarice is like, nah, not so fast. She draws the gun and he laughs, right? But what made me laugh is when she's like, Freeze, don't move. And he like puts his hands up, and then he literally he slinks away. Like that shit, there's no other word. He didn't run, he slinks away. He's like, Woo! Like, the fuck? That shit made me laugh. I thought that was too funny. Yeah, Ted Levine was he was in his bag the whole time. Whatever, whenever he was on the screen, he was like, Is it is it time for me to do okay? All right, I'm I'm ready. And he just crushed it. It was it was really, really good. Creepy off putting, all that stuff. He was good.
SPEAKER_02Somehow we end up in the dark. I don't know how, but somehow we end up in the dark, and Clarissa's swinging around her gun and just walking in just complete darkness of an unknown place she doesn't know. Televine slash Buffalo Bill is sitting there with his night vision goggles on, which he I introduced already earlier, kind of slowly stalking her.
SPEAKER_00Creepy, perfect scene.
SPEAKER_02It is a perfect scene, and he does really good. I'm like, damn, but I'm like, I know the house has to be silent at this point. Like, and it's like an older house. I'm like, no one's footsteps, he could she couldn't hear anything, like, especially when your like senses go down in sight, like your ears perk up.
SPEAKER_00She didn't I don't know. Nah, I mean, uh, maybe, right? What I'm gonna say, right? One, she's panicking, all she's hearing is her heart fucking.
SPEAKER_01She was breathing like she's like, God damn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like it was perfect, and then also, like, like her eyes have to adjust, so like her panic mode is setting in, and if she had probably calmed herself, her eyes would have been able to adjust, you know, but she didn't give it time. She was nah, man. It was it was fight or flight, and she was trying to like get the fuck out of there. She was struggling. I I thought it was perfect, unbelievable. I did I did think about it like God, like there's no creaking, yes, but I I don't I don't really have any notes for that scene. I really liked it. That's cool. Um him reaching out to touch her. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he kept reaching out, pulling him out, reaching out, touching her, like trying to like, ah, he's gonna get her, he's gonna get her. Um but then she she hears him. For some reason, he pulls out a gun and cocks it. I'm like, what the fuck? All of that, you had a gun this whole time? He could have shot her like way back. Like, I don't know what he was doing behind her like that. He was fucking with her.
SPEAKER_00He is criminally insane. Okay, that guy is a psychopath. Like, he's a good insane.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, he he pulls out a gun, cocks it, she hears it, and before, and somehow before he fires, he spins around on target and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, enters her six shooter there.
SPEAKER_00And I'm like, he's the clip. All right. Well, I'll I'll tell you why. Because she had a revolver, and that didn't need to fucking like she didn't have to prep that.
SPEAKER_02Still, the you telling me after hearing the thing cock, I have enough time to spin around and get on target. Get the fuck out of here.
SPEAKER_00This guy's guard, his guard was all the way down, man. He was milking the whole thing, he was toying with her. That's why you don't play with your food, guys. All right, that's lesson number two from the fucking podcast. Don't play with your food.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, his arrogance got him because she should have been a goner. Like, it should have been clocked fire. I don't know why she had enough time to spin around and get on target. Yeah. But uh, yeah, one sound, one chance. She reacts, she fires. That's it. No long drawn out fist fight and slam. She just emptied her clip and like, you know. Yeah. I thought. Yeah. Yeah, she emptied her clips, and that's the end. She didn't have to outstole Buffalo Bills, she just outlasts him. Which is cool. I I like about we talked about it, but I like that it was real. Like, we we still get that she is a trainee here. It's not like she up so all of a sudden becomes John Wick, where she's like composed, she's not scared, she's breathing fine. Like you see the mistakes, you see she's scared. You like her breathing is like the loudest thing in the room. Like, of just like you're about to have hyperventilate. Calm the fuck down. Get it together. And she never does.
SPEAKER_00No. In that moment, it was like, guys, I'm a trainee. Why am I here? Like that that's what was going on. Like, we saw it on her face. Like, I I haven't even made it to you know to be an FBI agent. Yeah, it was amazing. Ms. Acting.
SPEAKER_02Buffalo Bell is dead. Catherine is yeah, she's safe. I I don't I would have left her down there personally, but whatever. She is safe. She did. Claire graduates from FBI Academy. There's the happy ending because you absolutely forget that Hannibal Lecter is still on the loose. But he reminds us. He gives her a nice little ring. And you know, he's like, I'll see you in the sequel, guys. Yeah, I'll see you in the sequel. He uh lets her know I'm having an old friend for dinner. And um yeah, that's where we end, guys.
Ratings Final Scores And Goodbye
SPEAKER_00Let's get into it. For any newcomers, we rate our movies based on five categories: plot and writing, acting, casting, production, cinematography, music and sound, and cultural impact. Everything is rated on a scale of one to ten. Jill, plot and writing, what do you have?
SPEAKER_02All right. For plot and writing, I give it a seven.
SPEAKER_00Oh, nice. That's where I landed too. What's funny is that at the beginning, before we our discussion, I had a nine and I started deducting points as we were talking because of you know a few things. Primarily the escape and the pen scene. But yeah, I'm at a seven also.
SPEAKER_02Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_00Acting and casting, what do you got?
SPEAKER_02I think the full cast did exactly what they're supposed to do, so I'll give it a 10.
SPEAKER_00Nice. I gave it a nine. Great acting stuff. Yeah. Productions, cinematography, and visuals.
SPEAKER_02There wasn't like a ton of amazing shots, but the decision for the director to do like have us, like he's talking to us, I think was like excellent. So I gave it an eight. Oh I gave it a six. Okay, I want to do seven.
SPEAKER_00Okay. The reason I have it uh because there wasn't a lot. I I factored in what you talked about in my six, but there wasn't like a lot of next level stuff. So I that's why I don't have it a little bit higher. Music and sound. What do you have for that one?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the the the music sound score really didn't do anything for me for this movie.
SPEAKER_00I figured.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so four.
SPEAKER_00A four? Damn, I didn't know you'd be that low. I had a six and I raised it to a seven from my research, and part of it was because the score did what the composer wanted him to do, which was he said that he he scored it in a way that he didn't want the score to stand out, he just wanted it to be like woven into the fabric of the movie. Yeah, so you would feel things, but it's not like the score screaming at you, yeah. And then like the sound design of that last scene we talked about. I really liked it. I thought that was really nice. And I did so I was nominated for score or sound editing or something, so that's why I ended up with my seven. Okay, but I did not convince you, so we leave yours at a four. Cultural impact. What do you have?
SPEAKER_02Cultural impact, I gave it a nine.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I gave it eight. Damn. I know, yeah. Which is I didn't I didn't expect you to score so high. You haven't seen a movie before. Well, why why a nine?
SPEAKER_02Uh because it's one of the most recognizable villains, I think. And I'm gonna give him credit for that. You know what? I'm gonna drop down to a seven.
SPEAKER_00Jesus Christ. You always do that. Well, you just so that was I don't know, I might have been the first time, but we had scored a tie, and you just broke the tie. It's not the first time, sorry. It's not the first time. Okay, but we had a our scores were tied, and now yours has gone down. All right, well, yeah, it it it is our whole franchise. They're like there's a sequel and two prequel movies, and I think there were two television series as well. One of the most like well-known villains of all time, as you stated, so very iconic character and franchise overall. Okay, final scores.
SPEAKER_02Wait, I'll drop the production one time. I'll drop the production one point.
SPEAKER_00You're dropping production a point, yeah. So from seven to a six, yeah. Okay, all right. You just don't want it to be on record that you like this movie, huh?
SPEAKER_02Okay, I don't give it a four. Shit.
SPEAKER_00Give it what you want. All right, so final final scores for Silence of the Lambs is Jill. You have a six point eight, and I have a seven point four.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You start off at a seven point four and you drop down to a six point eight through the discussion.
SPEAKER_02I like it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, all right. All right, well, that will do it for our Real Talk and Banter on Silence of the Lambs. To connect with us, to give us some feedback, or just say hello, email us at real talkbanter at gmail.com. That's R E E L Talkbanter at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.