Reel Talk & Banter
Ever wanted to just sit around and make fun of an old movie with your friends? That's exactly what Reel Talk & Banter is all about. Join best friends Omari Williams and Jay Richardson as they rewatch movies that came out at least a decade ago. It's a mix of a film review and a comedy roast, where they discuss everything from the plot to the terrible acting, and even if the film has stood the test of time. Get ready to laugh and hear some hot takes on your favorite (and least favorite) classic films.
Reel Talk & Banter
The Murder Tentacles Made Me Do It: Spider-Man 2 (2004)
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Spider-Man 2 has a reputation that’s almost unfair: “best Spider-Man movie,” “top superhero film,” “one of the great sequels.” So we hit play and put that legacy on trial. We’re Omari Williams and Jay Richardson, and we go beat-by-beat through what still works brilliantly, what falls apart under basic scrutiny, and why the movie’s heart keeps winning even when the logic doesn’t. If you love film analysis, superhero storytelling, or just a sharp Spider-Man 2 review with jokes and real critique, you’re in the right place.
We start with Peter Parker’s life spiral: school stress, money problems, lost jobs, and relationships that feel permanently stuck. That pressure cooker leads to the film’s big theme: what does it cost to be a hero, and is quitting ever justified? From there we argue the controversial stuff, especially Mary Jane’s choices and whether the Peter and MJ chemistry actually lands. We also talk about why Harry Osborn’s scenes can feel like a detour even though they’re clearly setting the table for the trilogy’s next chapter.
Then we get into the heavy hitters: Alfred Molina’s Doc Ock, the “mini sun” fusion experiment, and Sam Raimi sneaking horror-movie energy into a superhero blockbuster. We laugh at the bank scene logic, question how anyone survives that lab demo, and still give flowers to the action design, especially the train sequence that might be the genre’s gold standard. We close with the finale, the redemption angle, a quick science sidebar, and our category ratings across plot, acting, visuals, music, and cultural impact.
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Welcome And Why Spider-Man 2
SPEAKER_02Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Banter Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Omari Williams.
SPEAKER_00I'm Jay Richardson.
SPEAKER_02And today we are discussing Spider-Man 2. Alright, well, this one is my selection with the upcoming release of Spider-Man Brand New Day. So I decided to pick one of the Spider-Man films, and I went with the second of our original trilogy, starring Toby Maguire, Cursten Dunce, J. Jonah Jameson. J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson. And yeah, I went with Spider-Man 2 instead of the original Spider-Man.
SPEAKER_00James Frankel?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess. Yeah, James Franco's in there too. And Alfred Molina. Alfred Molina's Doc Ock is who I was forgetting.
SPEAKER_00So why did why did you pick two over one?
SPEAKER_02I picked two because it's the better movie. Is the short answer of it? It is. It's the better movie. It's not just that it's the better movie, it is the best of this trilogy. And some might argue it's the best Spider-Man movie ever. And it's often considered just one of the top superhero films out there. So that was my real that was my reason for picking two over one.
SPEAKER_00I mean, okay. I would have to think I can't I can't comment enough. Like I'd have to re-watch one. I I don't think I've seen one enough to really even know what's going on. I mean, I really like Green Goblin though.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, I'm not saying one is bad. And Green Goblin Goblin is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Willem Defoe is probably William Defoe. Yeah, I think it's probably William Defoe is who I like the most.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, for sure. Willem Defoe is amazing. But as a cohesive story and the storyteller and everything, this is a better, well-rounded movie. It just is. Like, in addition to uh, just to give a little bit more, even like Toby McGuire, he has a better handle of Spider-Man in this movie, you know? So that goes a long part in it too. But like everyone involved in the film also has a better handle as to what they're doing, as to what they're trying to accomplish on screen. And some of the things.
SPEAKER_00What's Mary Jane doing?
SPEAKER_02You didn't like Mary Jane?
SPEAKER_00What was Jane doing? What was she doing?
SPEAKER_02Well, that's one of my talking points there. We're gonna talk about the relationship, the Peter and MJ relationship. We're gonna talk about the Harry and Peter relationships, and then we're gonna talk about these other thematic elements throughout the movie. So here's a quick summary of the movie. Peter Parker's life is in shambles as he struggles to balance university, financial ruin, and fractured relationships with MJ, Mary Jane Watson, and Harry Osborne. Under immense psychological stress, Peter begins losing his powers and decides to quit being Spider-Man to live a normal life. Meanwhile, a tragic lab accident transforms brilliant scientist Dr. Otto Octavius into Doc Ock, a villain controlled by four mechanical arms fused to his spine. Desperate to rebuild his failed dangerous fusion reactor, Doc Ock strikes a deal with Harry, who wants revenge on Spider-Man, and kidnaps MJ to lure the hero out. Forced to regain his powers and don the suit once more, Peter battles Octavius and eventually unmasks himself to appeal to the scientist's remaining humanity. Touched by Peter's words, Doc Ock redeems himself by sacrificing his life to destroy the reactor. While Mary Jane discovers Peter's secret identity and chooses to be with him despite the dangers. The dangers.
SPEAKER_00So in this entire movie, we're supposed to really believe that no one figured out that Peter Parker was Spider-Man.
SPEAKER_02Why would people figure that out?
SPEAKER_00The man disappears every time Spider-Man appears. He's the only person who's allowed to take a picture of Spider-Man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I do think too many people know that he's the one taking pictures exclusively of Spider-Man. He should probably throw a few other people a bow and be like, hey buddy, you want to take some pictures of me? But now I can make a sex. Don't be worried about it.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, I'm just saying, I mean, you made it kind of sexual.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm just saying it's New York. Spider-Man just say, hey, buddy, you want to take a picture of me? You could send a wrong message. No, no.
SPEAKER_00You lowered your voice. It was it was sexual. There was a sexual innuendo there. So I mean, this is this is a kids' movie, so let's relax here, buddy. Is it a kids' movie? Uh I don't know. Kids are in it.
SPEAKER_02There's some dark stuff in this movie, don't you think?
SPEAKER_00Um I like I said, kids are in it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, kids are in the movie, but I mean, kids are in Children of the Corn.
SPEAKER_00It's also a kids' movie. I know. It really isn't.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right, all right. That's not exactly how that works, but okay, cool.
Credits Nitpicks And Life Stress
SPEAKER_02As the movie started, right? I was definitely excited. Obviously, I picked it, so I'm excited to watch the movie. I got it turned off like immediately. Because three minutes of credits is very long.
SPEAKER_00Oof. Oof. All I could think of was like Cinema Synth.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00I was like, Jesus. That was very long.
SPEAKER_02My first note is okay, guys, three minutes of credits is nuts. It took a long time for the movie to get started. And it's like, I don't know, the movie's like kind of jerking itself off and kind of being like, hey, did you see the first one? And it's like, well, I did, which is why I'm here. So I don't need you to remind me it with like, you know, flashback scenes, but that's a nitpick. So the movie drops us off right in, you know, with Peter in his just struggle of a life. What how did you feel about what Peter had going on trying to keep the job, well, losing his job, almost losing both jobs? He got fired from the Daily Bugle multiple times.
SPEAKER_00The newspaper gig, it seems like that boss is just maniacal. Like he, I don't, I wouldn't believe a word he said anyway. Even if he said you're fired and didn't take it back, I would just show up the next day and he probably goes, Oh, you're late. Like that kind of guy. I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever.
SPEAKER_02Agreed. I'd be like, all right, JJJ, the pizza guy.
SPEAKER_00Right. The pizza guy was like, I thought about it. He's like, you have seven minutes to go 70 blocks. I was like, what the fuck? In what world it was 42.
SPEAKER_02But yes, it was ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00Was it 42? I'm sorry. I wrote it down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it was 42. However, your point still stands. And I also noted, because he has this 29-minute delivery guarantee. Then why is your delivery range includes a location? So far away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you should be like within five blocks, if even that. You still need like 10 minutes at least, at the very least, to cook the pizza.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Because I yes, that's fine. That includes the the cooking time, the 29 minutes. You're absolutely right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's like that was 10 pizzas, unless he has 10 pizza ovens, or I guess you could multiple, you could load multiple. It was just weird and horrible business design, but okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was unrealistic for sure. Just very unrealistic. Um, he's a true villain of this story, 100%.
SPEAKER_00He is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We discover that all of this happens and it's Peter's birthday. Tough, tough stuff. He comes home to Aunt May and MJ and Harry, his estranged lover and friend. Like, this is this. I'm just saying. He and MJ are estranged, and he and Harry are also estranged.
SPEAKER_00And it's just like you're saying Harry was his estranged lover and friend.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_00No, I was like, I mean, the way he slapped him, that was kind of like a lover's quarrel.
SPEAKER_02Listen to me, right? I wrote in here, I had no memory of this man slapping this man twice in the twice. That is crazy work. I don't understand how he got away with that. Well, I guess he's rich, but they would have had to fight. And I don't care. Because at that point, Peter didn't have his powers, correct? I think that's correct.
SPEAKER_00Um, no, I don't think he did have powers.
SPEAKER_02You're right. He did have his powers.
SPEAKER_00He was struggling, but he still had them at the time.
SPEAKER_02I mean, powers are no powers. You would have to scrap, but I was gonna fool Harry up. Like, Harry, you can't put your fucking hands on me like that, buddy.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, yeah. I mean, because I I know it didn't hurt him, but how embarrassing to have a grown man slap you in a crowd. Not once, the once is like shock. The second one, you have to air it out. You have to start shooting. Like you have to start shooting.
SPEAKER_02Even Will Smith only slapped Chris Rock once, okay?
SPEAKER_00Like, yeah, he didn't go back for a second time. He went back to his seat after that.
SPEAKER_02My gosh, that is crazy, crazy work. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he but to your first question. Yeah, homeboy was just having a really shitty day. I feel bad for him. I was like, Jesus Christ, this is bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, terrible.
SPEAKER_00Like, uh, yeah, this is losing your job. You barely it's your birthday, your aunt is getting kicked out of the house.
SPEAKER_02Oh gosh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Listen, and it's like, I might I put the I put here, damn, superheroing definitely does not pay the bills. Like, it's tough. This is tough, tough, tough day.
SPEAKER_00This is tough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I will say Rosemary Harris, who I did not mention, playing Aunt May, she was also crushed at her role in this. Every time she came on the screen to to deliver some type of guidance or counsel or nurturing or whatever she had to do, whatever the movie asked of her to do, I thought she did a really good job in her in her role. So this opening scene, well, these opening scenes speaks to some of the the main themes of the movie, right? And you know what does it mean to be a superhero, right? And at what cost should you commit to that? And we're gonna see Peter struggle with that throughout the entire movie, having to make different decisions, different sacrifices, and and even rejecting, you know, some some of those noble concepts that were laid out for him by Uncle Ben. But this is what the movie is kind of setting up for us so far.
Mary Jane Debate And Chemistry
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about MJ and Peter. What are your thoughts on MJ?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she she did nothing the whole movie for me. Like I feel like she was more impactful with the first movie, if my memory serves me correctly. Again, I haven't seen a movie in a long time. I did not rewatch one, so it's going off of my feelings. I felt like she was more impactful of the first movie with the second movie. I don't know what what she was doing, except like it felt like a cameo, but she had way too much lines for a cameo.
SPEAKER_02Well, you gotta elaborate. When you say a cameo, I mean she had she had very she had a lot of extensive scenes in the movie with Toby McGuire, so it's definitely more than just a cameo appearant.
SPEAKER_00So that's why I said it felt like she was a cameo, but she had way too much to just say she's a cameo. Like, I don't know. Like it felt like they gave it to her because she was already there versus like she actually earned it.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00I don't like to see it if an MJ.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what was going on with her, maybe in her personal life. I don't know. She kind of disappeared from like acting a little bit, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I mean overall, I don't think she's at the greatest, was the best cast for MJ, period. I just think that's just I just think that's true, period. I also did feel like she only really kind of rounded into form towards the end of the movie in this. And she it did seem like because they had her for the most part doing this will will we won't we thing with Peter. I my issue with some of her dialogue was like, oh, like tell me you want me, and then it's like, well, fuck you, I don't want you anywhere. I already have someone I'm moving on. Like it was a lot a little too much of that for me. So maybe that's what you bumped up against. I don't know, but it I I wasn't too pleased with it. Yeah, throughout the movie.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. It just she didn't give me anything, period. I just that's it. It's just period. I she could have been anybody doing that. And like he was like willing to give up everything for her, and to me, she wasn't worth it in that moment.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00So okay, so you're like, oh damn, I wasn't going that far. I really wasn't, she wasn't worth it. She wasn't worth it.
SPEAKER_02I really like the the diner scene. So you didn't feel like anything in the diner scene with them? Like, you didn't think that was good?
SPEAKER_00Nope.
SPEAKER_02Damn, okay, all right.
SPEAKER_00The best part of that scene was him dodging the car. Well, I swear.
SPEAKER_02Obviously, the end of the scene is amazing, but even like the yeah, for sure. Like that whole thing is cool. Okay, so then how would you compare the Harry Peter relationship? Because I feel like I feel that way about James Franco in this movie.
SPEAKER_00He was doing the same thing too.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00They both they both were just there because it was a sequel to one. Like I didn't feel any connection or anything with any of them.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. I I do, yeah, I feel like the James Franco stuff I could have done without the Harry Osborne stuff. It wasn't really it wasn't really great, it wasn't really adding on much. It was actually more of a distraction to literally Peter. It was weird. And to us, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was like there's these main things happening with Peter and his internal struct struggles, and then they'd randomly cut to Harry in the corner, yeah. Fucking Spider-Man. It's like, what get over yourself. Well, and then I I know he killed his dad, fine, whatever, whatever, but still, get over yourself. And then the one time, like Spider-Man saves him, he's like, This doesn't change anything. I was like, see, this is how I would have thrown him to myself. No, that's okay.
SPEAKER_02That was garbage. I did think though, because I wrote down at the end when when Peter when Harry finds out that Peter is Spider-Man, he's like, Peter says to him, Yo, Harry, there's bigger things happening right now. I feel like telling him that there's bigger things than me killing your dad going on right now. While that may be true, it's a crazy insensitive thing to fucking say to someone.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah. I mean, MJ was in trouble, so that's like their world, both of them.
SPEAKER_02So I get it, but well, no, not even the MJ thing. He literally said that the at least the city was about to be destroyed, you know, if not more. So for sure. Yeah, the stakes were definitely higher. I I think the the reason I'm okay with the MJ stuff, because at least when we cut to the MJ stuff, the MJ things connected to the main themes of the movie, which is why I'm not as harsh on it as you are. I feel like the Harry stuff were actually just a detour and those are more of a distraction. But I feel like at least when it went to MJ, it was more about the because we're showing him grappling with the whole thing about self-sacrifice and what should he, you know, should he put her in danger or should he be true to his feelings? So I thought it all made sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I get the connection to the story. I just didn't like her performance in it or something. Something something wasn't connecting for me where I felt like she was worth the squeeze. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Maybe it's because they're recently broken up in real life.
SPEAKER_00Oh, they were together at that time? See, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_02They were together for the first movie, but they were they had broken up by the time the second movie came around.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Maybe.
SPEAKER_02Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. The directors were concerned. Like, is it is the chemistry still still gonna be there? And arguably, I don't know. I feel like they found it. I did not feel the chemistry. Yeah, you didn't feel that at all. I I I thought they kind of got there throughout the they kind of worked their way to it, but yeah. No. But yeah, she's definitely not one of the best parts of the movie. I think we already we spent a lot of time on MJ.
Doc Ock Arrives And Fusion Disaster
SPEAKER_02The one, I guess, bright spot that kind of happened for Peter is that he was introduced to his mentor, not mentor, but to someone he admired. Alfred Molina's Dr. Octavius. And of course, uh, he happens to be writing a paper for him for in school, and Harry and Dr. Octavius were in a had a business. Well, Harry was funding Octavius' research, so he he made the introduction and got to a little bit of a rocky start as as you know, Doc Hawk was kind of sizing Peter up, and you know, short conversation turned into like a 90-minute, you know, spending the day and having dinner with each other or lunch with each other type of deal. So it was all it was all good. What did you feel about how did you feel about Alfred Molina's introduction into the show as as Dr. Octavius before he becomes Stockhawk?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I thought I missed a scene because I I recall him pretty much calling him a peasant, and then next you know they're eating dinner together. And I was like, oh, I guess he I guess he passed. I didn't know what was happening. But no, I liked him. I liked him as that. The only thing that always bothered me, and I guess this is like a villain trope of like, I don't know why in all these movies they have these like super smart scientists doing this super like extreme, really dangerous thing, and somebody else comes in and says, Hey, did you consider this? And they're like, ah, happycock. Like I was like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Well, okay, so to his credit, he did sorry, are you talking about when Peter brought it up or when the reporter brought it up in the demonstration?
SPEAKER_00No, when Peter brought it up specifically, and then the reporter doubled down on it.
SPEAKER_02So it was funny, I made a note about that, right? Because Peter brought up something and he's like, You think I didn't consider all the consequences? And then his wife was like, Relax. My husband has done all the research. I'm like, Mother Scott, how the fuck do you know what what consequences and research he's properly done? And then, like, shortly after, they were like, She's an English lit major. I was like, Yeah, you have no fucking idea what he's doing. So shut up, Rosie. Okay, like serve the meal. I was like, what the fuck? Serve the meal, okay?
SPEAKER_00Like, what the hell?
SPEAKER_02She's trying to be a part of this. You don't know what's going on.
SPEAKER_00She was. I mean, yeah, I'm sure he talks to her about it, but yeah, I know. If you're not on the level, you're whatever he's even if he said it, you'd be like, Oh, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you just talking about she's not challenging him and saying, Well, did you freaking consider the flux capacitor overheated or some bullshit? Like, no, she doesn't have to say that, right? Yeah, so I don't know. I thought that was funny, but yeah, I do agree with you. It's always evil scientists, well, not so evil scientists, does something that's like evil coded, someone tries to warn them, and he's like, uh, no, stop. I'm good. We're good.
SPEAKER_00And then immediately disaster. Immediate disaster. But yeah, no, I I liked him. I liked his introduction. I mean, he had a good idea. He didn't I like that he didn't start out with like bad intentions, and most of them don't for the most part, for the most part, they don't. They always are trying to like better the world. But there's a reason why people just don't do things, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like freaking create a perpetual energy, just like in downtown New York.
SPEAKER_00Create the sun, they're creating the sun in a warehouse. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Bro, this whole scene, I'm sure you're gonna talk about it, but the whole demonstration scene took me out the whole time.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, oh, yeah. Uh actually, we can we can transition to that now. So we we do have the the big reveal or the big day where Dr. Octavius has a bunch of reporters. I'm sure there's a bunch of like shareholders and donors and sponsors there, invest everything, you know. We're about to make history, he's about to do fusion, and to pull off this whole like sun fusion perpetual energy thing, he has to fuse robotic arms to his spine. Now, if that's not if that doesn't scream evil mad scientist shit, I don't know what else does. Like fusing that to your spine is wild. Was that even tested?
SPEAKER_00See, I don't know. I kind of missed it of like I don't know if it was intentionally supposed to exactly fuse to his sign. You know, he had like that brace thing that was supposed to Yes.
SPEAKER_02The fusing, the permanent fusion happened after the accident. But they were still it was still tapped into his spine though. Because that's how he was able to, you know, with the nerve endings control them, right? So even just injecting those things into your spine just like that in front of everyone, just like okay, all right, we're good to go. It's like, do you want to test this out first? Before I'm like, dude, there's two inventions here because these arm things weren't even the main attraction. And I'm like, this seems pretty amazing. Can you like test that shit out first? Then let's do the whole fusion bomb in the middle of downtown, like after the fact. I don't know. I feel like that should have been two different things. I mean, I'm sure he played with the arms a while, but you think he's been injecting that in and out of him like he's been doing that?
SPEAKER_00I think he had to. I think he I think he had to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean the fusion thing has is limited because you only he only had so much of that trit tritium. Trinium. Tritium.
SPEAKER_02Tritium, yeah.
SPEAKER_00They only had so much of that, so you couldn't keep like testing it and doing it. So that's probably just like a one single shot. That's yeah, I think this would work, which is crazy to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, no, no. I'm not even talking about the tritium part of it. I just mean like, do these arms function properly? Like, are there gonna be any side effects or any concerns with tapping in this AI thing into your spine and brain? Like, that's what I mean. Like testing that out before even introducing the tritium experiment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I would presume that he probably did. Okay, and do some testing with it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, shit went wrong.
SPEAKER_00Immediately. It was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life. I was like, okay, so fusion reactor, which essentially, and he says it. He says, I'm harnessing, or I have this the sun in the palm of my hand.
SPEAKER_02The power of the sun in the palm of my hand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's literally what it is. Like this thing is or should be like over a hundred million degrees Celsius. Right? Like, it has a gigantic magnetic feel, it's it's radiation out of the ass.
SPEAKER_02The radiation was one of the biggest things for me. All a movie, I'm like, should are we irradiating people? Like, what the fuck is going on here?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they all had cancer. Even if they did, even if they survived as they were walking out, they should have had cancer. Like immediately. Like, like, like uh, what the hell's the other one name? I almost said Dar Daredevil, not Daredevil, like uh what the hell is the man's name?
SPEAKER_02The other superhero name all of them until like another one that looks like cramp.
SPEAKER_00You know, and he Yeah, he has cancer. You know, D. Starts with a D.
SPEAKER_02Superhero.
SPEAKER_00It's Ryan Reynolds' character.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Deadpool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they all should have been fucking Deadpool. I said it starts with a D. You should have known from that one. Also, cancer, you should have known from that one. You suck. You suck as a superhero.
SPEAKER_02I'm the problem here. I thought you were talking about Walter White at this point in time. Okay, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. Anyway.
SPEAKER_00No, I haven't. Yeah. No, I haven't.
SPEAKER_02Whatever.
SPEAKER_00Anyway, yeah, they all have cancer at this point. Like this experiment in the middle of downtown Manhattan or New York or wherever, you know, wherever borough they're in in a warehouse.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a warehouse and a pair. No, no protect, no lead shielding. Like, they're not in like separate rooms where they're viewing from. They're literally 100%.
SPEAKER_00It should have been like in a inner containment of like several inches, if not feet, of concrete to try to keep that thing from not irradiating everything and everybody around it.
SPEAKER_02He he did talk about like the point of the hands was so you can manipulate this thing because he can't do with his like bare hands and stuff.
SPEAKER_00But then I'm like, Then you got shit to do with radiation.
SPEAKER_02But then you stand like what a foot away from it, and I'm like, dude, like okay.
SPEAKER_00I didn't understand.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you saved your hands, I guess. The rest of your body is just devastated right now.
SPEAKER_00It should have been melted. Oh my gosh. Also, I don't I don't remember he said it or not, like what the hell the arms actually made out of, but it looks like metal to me. So I'm like, how the hell is it not just being sucked into the damn?
SPEAKER_02He he there was a line he said that it was they were magnet proof or resistant. He did say that.
SPEAKER_00Magnet proof.
SPEAKER_02They they said that whatever alloy the metal was, it will it was not succumbed to magnetic fields. He they made sure to say it. Okay, yeah. I okay now, what fictional material this is, I don't know. They did give us a line of dialogue to explain why he wasn't being sucked up all the time. And I appreciated that.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02A simple write-in just to take care of that problem because a lot of people would have forgotten. Hey, aren't his arms metal? And they're like, ah, fuck. I'm gonna do the whole movie over, and it's like, nah, let's just let's just keep going.
SPEAKER_00Let's just keep going. Let's just say, ah, we have a special alloy here. But yeah, he just killed everybody in that room, and that building should have immediately crumbled, and everything around it.
SPEAKER_02The way his wife was killed though was super brutal. The shards of glass coming at her or whatever. Yeah. So Sam
Horror Hospital Scene And Bank Logic
SPEAKER_02Raimi directed this. You're more of a horror person than I am, but you have you seen like, was it the Evil Dead and all that? Have you seen a bunch of Raimi movies or not really?
SPEAKER_00I've seen Evil Dead, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so you could see the Raiminess of the film creep out in certain scenes, particularly after this all happened, and you know, the the arms get fused to his spine. To me, this is one of the coolest. There's a there's a few cool set pieces, pieces in this movie. This one right here, where the arms come alive and start killing, massacring all the doctors. It I love how that was shot. It was shot like it was a horror movie, like the way he was using the shadows. And again, I thought it was very dark and very graphic for like a child's uh PG 13 movie, but the way that they played around with the horror elements within that shot, that scene, I thought it was pretty awesome. What'd you think?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I did like that scene. I don't my only issue is like there was no build-up to it, it was just like now they're just evil. And I was like, oh, you know, usually there's kind of like a transition of like I'm still doing good, and then the evil creeps in, but they were just like, nah, we're just picking over now. Good luck. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, that bothered me a little, but that's just my personal preference. I don't know if they had time for that transition because it's not the main point, really.
SPEAKER_02It really isn't. I because I think the whole thing is just that what we're we're meant to get gain is that the the inhibitor chip or whatever gets corrupted, you know, in the explosion. Yeah. And it just allows the I think you ultimately I think I ultimately agree with you. I do have a note in here somewhere where I'm like, why are these technicals so bloodthirsty? Because they were so fucking murderous. They were so murderous.
SPEAKER_00It was um it was like it was like it was just nothing. They were just like, Yeah, now we're gonna kill everybody. Not because you're just gonna do it again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, not because machines are sentient means they're automatically just gonna be like, maybe we should kill everyone here, you know, in a brutal graphic way. Like they were impaling people, and it was it was pretty nuts, but awesome as hell.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was like, it was awesome, but yeah, I was like, I mean, I could understand it more if it was like they started to and then something tried to stop it, and they're like, Oh, I have to protect myself, I have to protect this guy, plus I can't get this thing done. But it was just immediate because I mean it could have easily just woke him up and moved him out of there without doing any damage to anyone, like sure. They were trying to cut the arms with like a regular chainsaw, and I was like, special hardened fucking alloy, like how is that happening? Well, he was trying, and I was like, Okay, I don't know, I don't even understand how they actually attempted to do that surgery anyway. I feel like it'd have been you, you're you're gonna kill that person.
SPEAKER_02You just gotta let me like what I don't that doctor had a fucking first of all, it looked like a table saw like that that the first doctor had. I was like, that yeah, is this is this SOP? Because I don't what are you doing here?
SPEAKER_00I don't know what he was gonna do. I knew it wasn't gonna work.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, you need to do way more research before even attempting this surgery, okay? Like the board of the hospital needs to be involved to even greenlit you even attempting this. Like, there's no way they just rushed him in the ER and there's like, all right, let's cut this off of him. Like, you already acknowledge this fused to his spine, guys. Like, what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I don't there's not there's nothing you can do at that point. He just has to live with these fucking arms. I assume like Oscor paid for it. Then maybe there's like private doctors and they just like you know, kind of go around. That's possible. What what I would go with, because this you couldn't just walk into you know, yeah, a regular hospital and be like, oh yeah, these are fused to my back. Help me get them off.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that makes sense, especially you can assume that Oscar funded most of his research, all that sort of proprietary tech, you know. So just in exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that makes sense. All right, I'm okay with that.
SPEAKER_00I assume that was that part, but whatever the hell they were gonna do was not gonna work, period, anyway, even if he didn't wake up to kill them all.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So Doc's murder tentacles convinced him that he should go rob a bank because he needs to fund he needs money, because he needs money to pay to fund the rest of his research. And I'm like, that doesn't work because I'm like, okay, you steal this money, what are you spending it on?
SPEAKER_00Like, who are you exactly there's no like specialized alloy store you can just run to oh I just need you know this 30 foot ass thing that's gonna contain the power of the sun. Like anything he's doing is a year's out of building it, of procuring it and building it.
SPEAKER_02But then, but then it looked like he just used a bunch of trash lying around to like build the build the reactor. So I don't I mean I mean I guess he bought shit on the black market or something, but again, okay, how fast do those transactions work? I don't know. The whole bank scene was awesome, but the logic was nuts. So my guy goes in there and he literally steals. I'm sorry, is that a bag of gold coins?
SPEAKER_00That's what I thought, but I'm like, why the fuck they have gold coins in this?
SPEAKER_02Why? Like, I'm like, there's literally bags of coins in there, and I'm like, what are the quantities and who's counting this? Like, I had so many questions about this bank and how their shit was set up. It just didn't make any sense, but it was very entertaining to watch, very hilarious.
SPEAKER_00I just yada yada the damn coins because I was like, why do they what is this bank that they have like gold coins? Like, was that the freaking federal bank? Like, what is it? Like, right the full country. Why would you have that in there? Right, like why is that in there? He was better served to just go to some other secret lab and just steal whatever the actual technology, the parts, yeah. That would have been a better segue of his use of new powers or whatever than going to a bank to steal money to then go buy it. Why are you buying it? Aren't you an evil genius? What kind of evil genius buys shit? Hold on, I need a receipt actually. Like, what the fuck? Are you gonna claim it on your text?
SPEAKER_02It is expense. This it is expensive.
SPEAKER_00Right. Like, what are you doing? Oh, and then also he's saying right now.
SPEAKER_02Um also I'm like, why not just go to Harry and rob him or make him force him to pay for whatever the fuck, you know? Like, yeah, so again, didn't make any sense. However, shout out to Joel McHale as the bank teller. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was pretty cool. The young Joel McHale definitely did not know who he was 20 years ago. Love Joel McHale right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of people in that movie that I was like, oh, he's in there.
SPEAKER_02Elizabeth Banks, Elizabeth Banks was in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Elizabeth Banks was in there with her black hair on for some reason.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Oh she's so blonde, so I don't know why they threw a black wig on her, but because the the she's playing a real character, Betty, Betty Brandt, I think is her name, in the comics. So to look like that. Yeah, that's why that's why.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so but we do get an awesome fight scene for all the shenanigans and absurdity of this even taking place. We we do get Aunt Missy, Peter, don't leave me.
SPEAKER_00Oh, he's so hero, he's some hero, ain't he? Manages like getting off to the side again, but no one knows he's fucking Peter. He's fucking like, yeah, yeah, it's tough.
SPEAKER_02Okay, it's tough. It's I we didn't they didn't even I was waiting for at least one time for him to like do the whole like I was in the stairwell, or I got locked in a club. Where'd you go? You know, like he never nobody we didn't see him having to explain to anyone where he disappeared to because he did it like what four or five times in this movie, but four or five times, and then just disappears. Whatever. Donnell Rollins saw him and thought that he stole the pizza from Peter Parker in the beginning of the movie.
SPEAKER_00He just stole that guy's pizza. I'm like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Again, another random cameo, but but no, the the I so I another thing about this movie where I think elevates it is that the action scenes I thought were all pretty nice. Like we got multiple fight scenes that were that are pretty good, pretty dynamic, changing locations. Like the the use of the scale, the geography was pretty cool with the tentacles climb up the wall, and it I just thought that this was all done really, really well.
SPEAKER_00I like that for the most part. For the most part, I think there's there's some scenes where it's kind of cut off, but for the most part, Sam Raimi, they he kind of shot it, not kind of, he shot it like widescreen, so you could see the full like the full length of his body with the arms, and he was like bigger and more imposing than you know if he cut off half his body or didn't see like or you just saw these random like metal parts sticking out. You're like, what the hell is that? But yeah, he was he he was he got pretty good with that. The only thing I the other thing I saw, because they were pitching these fucking gold bags, like like pitching them. Freaking Peter, or I'm sorry, Spider-Man throws one back at him and hits him in his face, and I'm like, Oh, is he now like impervious to injury? Because that was a gold, yes, that was a full bag of gold coins directly to his face, and he was just like, Oh, let me just scan her out of here.
SPEAKER_02I was like, I had the same exact question, and not even on the gold, the the bag of coins is an obvious thing, but let's not forget Spider-Man has super fucking strength, you know? Yeah, too. So even just with the because they did a lot of fist fighting, bum, bam, bum, trading blows, punches to the face. And I'm like, there's it was a few times I asked myself, like, so is Doc Ock like, did he take a super soldier serum in addition to fusing his arms to him? Right, because right. I'm sorry, man. Superman all of a sudden Peter should have folded him up, like packed him up one time, like all those punches. I mean, I I know think canonically, right? Spider-Man never uses his full strength, you know, he doesn't want to kill anyone, he's always pulling his punches literally.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So I guess you can explain it away that way, but this dude has four giant technical, he's kicking your ass, dog. Like you can knock him out, like put him down, bro.
SPEAKER_00No, he should have been knocked out. I don't care, like, even pull his punches, a full bag of gold coins to the face. Is there you should be knocked out? Also, I had that note as well. I was like, Spider-Man's getting his ass kicked this full movie, like really bad. Like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, so I guess by now though, his powers have already started going under Fritz. So maybe we can say he's going in and out of weakened states.
SPEAKER_00I mean, exactly. So so that's another thing I had a question on, and I don't maybe you could explain it. As his powers are disappearing, like the several times he he jumped between buildings and it it went out. I assume not only his webs are gone, but all his other powers are gone as well. So, how the hell did he survive falling off the top of the building and hitting those cars?
SPEAKER_02So, my my answer is because I had the same question. My answer for that is I don't his power is not like a a switch where they were on and off, uh they were fading. So he was losing different aspects of his powers like gradually in each of those scenes. So that's that's that's the way, and you can see it in that same the diner scene we talked about, where obviously his spider sense came back in being able to avoid the car, right? But the rest of his powers hadn't come back yet, like his super strength wasn't quite there, and even his vision, because it wasn't until he got outside he realized his vision got blurry, so it was just coming and going in waves. It wasn't just like a trying to faucet on and off deal. That's that's what I think.
SPEAKER_00Fine, gonna explain it. I'll take it.
SPEAKER_02That's a good segue, though. Into let's talk about we've been spending a lot of time in our
Power Loss And Getting Beat Up
SPEAKER_02villain, let's talk about our protagonists, right? This is a Spider-Man movie, and Toby McGuire had a lot to do in this movie, and I think he delivered. We're gonna find out what you thought. But some of the things that he was struggling with, you know, there there was this scene because he his powers were under Fritz a couple times, and then when they finally went, there was this scene where he had a vision of Uncle Ben, and Uncle Ben was talking to him about honesty, fairness, justice. These are those lessons and values that Uncle Ben tried to instill in him, and we see Peter literally reject that, you know, and and those teachings, feeling that the only way he could attain peace and happiness is to just walk away from from being Spider-Man and from taking on all that burden. How do you think the movie did in showing Peter grappling with this? And how do you think you know Toby Maguire did portraying this throughout the movie?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so first I I give credits to Toby Maguire. I think he did a good job of the of you you felt him grappling. You felt him wanting to do the right thing, but his life was literally just in shambles around him. And there's only so much you could take at the end of the day. Like, you know, they the the train scene, and when they take when they when he's unmasked or he's unmasked and they see him, and they're like, oh, he's just a kid. He's no longer he's not any, you know, older than my son or whatever. It just you still come back to like Spider-Man is literally still a young man, you know, 19, 20 or whatever. Like and though, and he's human, now he has been a large part of his life. Um now I don't know if he's considered human now, but whatever. But some other part I would consider I would he's mutated. Okay, I would consider him still human-ish. He is with some special some some special sauce on top, but he's not like other superheroes. So so I think he did a good job there. It was interesting to see him reject Uncle Ben in that way. Just because I mean that's the whole premise of why he decided to put on a suit, you know, with great power comes great responsibility, is the the tagline, right? Plus, with all the guilt of like how Uncle Ben died and all that stuff. Do you think that he would do everything to because that's what happened at first. That's what kind of that's his that's what I don't want to say that's what happened at first, but to me the Uncle Ben death is what really triggered everything because he had an opportunity to do something and he didn't.
SPEAKER_01Correct.
SPEAKER_00And then it ultimately ended with Uncle Ben dying, even though you know he didn't pull the trigger, it still kind of cascaded down. So you would think that regardless of what, he'd always remain true to that, but I guess he was just at his breaking point and deciding that he he couldn't do any more. And and then you see his life start to get better, like his normal life start to get better. You know, he'd start to go to class, he starts smiling. Even MJ is like, yeah, something's different about you. And he cracks me up this one scene where like I I I don't know why these cops are chasing his car on foot, but they're running past him, and it looks like he's about to like jump in, but then he like shoves a hot dog down his damn throat, and I was like, Oh, he's like, Oh, not my concern. So, yeah, I think he did a good job of showing all that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you know, and I I wonder too, right, with this being in New York City, like, could you imagine being a superhero in a city with a high fucking crime rate? Like, how do you even decide what crimes are you going after? You know?
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02Like that that has to be stressful in and of itself, you know. I agree with you that the the decision to reject Uncle Ben it seemed almost a bit like jarring. I was I was a little surprised as well. But so it's been two years, right? And as you said too, he's he's lived what 18, 19, 20 years as a regular person, and or sorry, I guess like 16, 17 years. I can't remember how old he's supposed to be in the first movie because Toby McGuire is like 32 years old. But right canonically, he's you know, 15, 16 years old, and then a couple years of of dealing with this heavy burden of one feeling responsible of having his uncle killed and losing his having to I mean, dude, imagine becoming imagine you. Becoming a superhero, and then my mom is your greatest fucking villain. And you have to kill her. Like for real, right? Like the emotional tormour that would cost causing you, you know? And then I'm like on your case about like, hey man, like, do you know who killed my mom? And you're like, fuck, like, you know.
SPEAKER_00So why are you protecting him? Would you tell me? I'm like, what are you talking about, man? Come on.
SPEAKER_02Like all of that.
SPEAKER_00They didn't really grapple with that at all. Like, at least not in this movie. I don't know if some of the other movies or comics, but yeah, they didn't really grapple with that. They didn't.
SPEAKER_02I don't think, I don't think there was room for that, right? I I don't think you couldn't do the MJ thing and the Harry thing.
SPEAKER_00But it'll make it'll make more sense for what they gave Harry. But otherwise, he was just kind of randomly in the corner just seething about it, but we're like, he didn't really give attention to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And how Peter must have felt with that exact like, damn, I killed my best friend's father.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we don't really see him moralize on that, those actions. And the most we get is at the end when he's like, Harry, there's bigger things happening. I'm like, God damn, dog, you killed his dad. Like, like, you know, so that wasn't handled perfectly as far as the writing goes. I just don't think the movie had time for it. But like you said, maybe that made more sense to kind of focus on that more than the whole will they, won't they, love story stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02I think that probably would have been a little more effective in showing him regret his actions and grapple with this, like, well, what am what am I doing here? You know, what am I supposed to be doing? What does it mean to be a hero?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Instead, there went the other route of him grappling with like self-sacrifice and like achieving his own happiness, which is also a valid thing, but there was a different route they could have taken with this, 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But so he finally he fully loses his powers, he's at a low point. We get a very iconic scene of his costume in a trash can. That's from the amazing Spider-Man number 50, uh, the comic book. It's a 1967 issue titled Spider-Man No More, which we also see as another Easter egg as a cover, front page cover for the Daily Bugle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So after he tosses his costume, Yuri alluded to the fact that his life starts to improve. He, you know, he starts making it to school in time, he's doing well. He has he catches MJ's play and even has the confidence to talk to her. But after this scene, we see a guy getting jumped. Beat the hell up.
SPEAKER_00We did, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No powers. Are you helping? No, not at all.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, what was it? Like three on one?
SPEAKER_02Two on one.
SPEAKER_00It was two? Yeah. Okay, maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe.
SPEAKER_02Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And the guy was he was screaming, hey, help me somebody help.
SPEAKER_00He did. But I wasn't the only person there. There's several other people who were like around. Like they were on the street.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm sorry. There's lots of people there.
SPEAKER_00Nobody else stops.
SPEAKER_02So I would have At least would you at least be able to do it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm calling cops for sure. Okay, you're calling cops. Okay. I'm on I'm on the corner of 45th and West. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Come out here. Maybe get a couple like bystanders. Like, hey, let's go help this guy.
SPEAKER_02I know. You guys see this? And everybody's ignoring me. Right. Hey. Hey, do you guys see this?
SPEAKER_01Oh shit.
Aunt May Confession And Hero Speech
SPEAKER_02So we get we got a touch-in scene between I said touch-in. A heart-wrenching scene between Peter and Aunt May. And this is definitely Toby's Toby's earning that check here. Rosemary, is that what I said her name was? I'm sorry. Yeah, Rosemary. Yeah, Aunt May, yeah. Great scene. You know, Peter confesses to Aunt May and reveals what happened the night Uncle Ben died and takes responsibility for it. And it's shot really well. It's a close-up on his face while he's speaking. And then we got a close-up on Aunt May, and we got her reaction. She says nothing. She just gets up.
SPEAKER_00Right. She just leaves. I'm like, oh my God. That's even worse.
SPEAKER_02Brutal. Brutal. Oh my gosh. And then you heard her extra run up the stairs. Because ain't the way fucking Amy walked up those stairs that fast. Oh man. But no, man. That was a really tough scene. But it it wasn't as nice of him, and as she said courageous of him to make have this admission to her, you know? But that that was tough. Very tough. Well acted, though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was well acted. And then but then at the end, when he comes back and he's like, Yeah, why didn't you call me? She's like, Oh, well, you know, the neighbor helped me out. He's like, Oh, okay, well, you know, we kind of had a different conversation. She was like, Oh, yeah, that's water under the bridge. I was like, What the fuck? Well, did you discuss that further? You're just like, No, what happened happened?
SPEAKER_02That made sense to me. Did that seem off to you?
SPEAKER_00It was off.
SPEAKER_02I I I thought it made sense.
SPEAKER_00One because she just she just left the conversation. She didn't say anything.
SPEAKER_02It was very hard to hear.
SPEAKER_00It was very hard to hear. Yeah, for sure, for sure. But but between then and there, there is no indication that there was any conversation at all. Because he wasn't said it.
SPEAKER_02But there wasn't.
SPEAKER_00So I And then he just she was hurt.
SPEAKER_02She she she stormed off essentially or whatever. But she reflected. She reflected, you know. And and she came, she's all she's an old woman. She loves that boy more than anything, right? And I I think she I think everything she said to him, I think she realized that he was carrying this for two whole years. And him being able to unburden himself and being brave enough to tell her what happened. I just think she weighed that more than the whole like I don't know, like what is she gonna say to him? Like, I don't know to me, the scene worked. I didn't have any issues with it. I didn't think it was like shocking or that's like typical shit, man. Like, yeah, you have an older older family member, they're just they're not gonna come talk to you, they're not touchy feely, just like, yeah, hey man, that shit happened, we good, let's keep it pushing. It makes it made sense to me.
SPEAKER_00All right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, nothing.
SPEAKER_00You're telling me.
SPEAKER_02You're telling me I'm telling you, same situation with my mom, me and my mom, and my mom does that shit. All right, we cool, we're moving on a hundred percent. Now, if you want to have a conversation about whether that's healthy or not, we could talk about that, but I don't find it unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00I don't okay, fine.
SPEAKER_02You and your mom gonna sit on and have a long conversation about it?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, absolutely not. Oh, absolutely. Like I never even said it.
SPEAKER_02So why are you having such a hard time?
SPEAKER_00I felt like it was needed. Nah, you had that big because you had that big intentional, emotional moment and almost no resolution until like the end of oh yeah, we forgot about that.
SPEAKER_02It's like, oh okay, we mean what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_00Like, like for me, like you like you just said, you just had you had the close-up on the faces, like intimate emotional, what they're talking about. She walks away, and then there's like you're just on this high. And to me, that it didn't come back down. It was just like it didn't happen, and it's just kind of weird for me. That's all.
SPEAKER_02Nah, nah, nah. I mean, not unrealistic. I'm gonna give you the resolution right here, man. Here it happened in the same goddamn scene, right? So she's packing up her stuff, she's packing up her stuff, right? And this is where this is happening because she's like, all right, the house is gone, whatever. Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I found an apartment. I'm like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Aunt May uses this conversation to have a conversation with Peter about self-sacrifice. And she says to him, Yeah, everybody loves a hero. I believe there's a hero in all of us that keeps us honest, gives us strength, makes us noble, and finally allows us to die with pride. Even though sometimes we have to be steady and give up the thing we want the most, even our dreams. Like that's your resolution of that previous scene, there, in my opinion. Because this is the thing that ultimately gives Peter the confidence to accept and acknowledge what he his hand in Uncle Ben thing, acknowledge who he is and what that res that his potential to to be a hero, right? The power and sacrifice and his ability to inspire others. Like Aunt May helps him re realize that, and he in turn decides to re become Spider-Man again. You know, his powers hadn't even fully kicked in back, they haven't kicked in at this point. But MJ called him first, so they were having that that that lunch or whatever. But this speech is what did it. It wasn't MJ getting captured, it wasn't Doc Ark blowing up downtown like attacking downtown. This speech is what did it. This is what made him suit up again.
SPEAKER_00Aunt May doesn't know he's Spider-Man at this point, or does she?
SPEAKER_02No, she does not.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Which is even more powerful. She's just talking about like because she's like every one of us, regular people, we can be heroes. And then and then the connective tissue to this scene happens on the train scene, which is one of the most awesome sets set pieces and scenes in our superhero movie ever, right? All this shit's connected. So Doc
Diner Ambush And Train Masterpiece
SPEAKER_02Hack crashes the diner, blows up the lunch that Peter and MJ were having. Peter was in the process of telling MJ, I don't love you. Harsh, but we can't be together, you know, because he's decided I'm gonna be Spider-Man and he needs to keep her safe. Doc comes, kids, kidnaps MJ, and tells Peter, you need to find Spider-Man or else. We get a long stop right here.
SPEAKER_00Stop right here.
SPEAKER_02All right.
SPEAKER_00He gives him that statement. Hey, find him or else. Cool.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00Then he throws Peter Parker in a freaking brick wall. Oh, Jesus Christ. If he wasn't Spider-Man, you just killed him. He had no, he was not gonna get any message because you just killed him.
SPEAKER_02Jill. This is why I love partying with you. I have that note and I glossed over it. You're absolutely right. I said, Christ, how is he supposed to find Spider-Man if you kill him? That shit was crazy.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely killed him. He threw him into the brick wall when we course.
SPEAKER_02He shattered the brick, broke his back. He can't even like walk anywhere to go for like Spider-Man's not coming, dog. He just killed the only guy that could find him.
SPEAKER_00He killed the only person that knows Spider-Man. Good job, sir. Good job. All right, carry on. I just have to comment about that. I was like, Jesus Christ. If he was a Spider-Man, he would have died.
SPEAKER_02Holy shit. That was that was a great point. Thanks for catching that. So now we have this scene. Peter goes steal his costume from his suit from the Daily Bugle. And the battle ensues. You know, he he's going after Doc Ock. Great use of the scenario. There's with the clock hands, he he uses a missile and fires it back up at Doc Ock. Doc Ock catches it, breaks it in two, throws each piece at him. Peter kicks them away. Just man, the choreography of these fights, it was just it was so dynamic. I I just loved it. I know I've said this already, but I I can't stop. It takes us to the the train. We get on top of a train and they're fighting. Punches are being thrown and everything. Again, using the environment. Doc Hawk is pretty crafty, pretty shifty. Probably more than you would expect him to be, but I guess those arms allow him to be. Doc Hawk, I guess getting frustrated with the fight, starts throwing passengers from the train at Oh, that was hilarious.
SPEAKER_00Bro, I was just like, God damn, he was real mad. He was like, Who is this? He thought it started throwing bodies. I was like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Peter catches them, and then Doccock pushes the train in to accelerate at its fullest speed and then destroys the console. The brake is busted, and he says, Hey man, good luck. You know, you got a train to catch, and he pieces out. So I love everything about this scene, right? So we have Peter. There's there's some sparks in his mask, so he couldn't see, took it off. He climbs to the front of the train and he's like, you know what? I'm just gonna fucking stop the train. I'm just put my foot down, slow it down. I don't know if you thought it was Superman or something. That shit didn't work. I thought I was funny. Like the trial and error of him trying to save, it was funny.
SPEAKER_00So he's like fucking uh train conductor is like, oh, got any other bride ideas? I know.
SPEAKER_02Very New York.
SPEAKER_00I would have thrown him in very New York. I'd have thrown that motherfucker. Like, oh, let me see if your body was stopping that.
SPEAKER_02Let's lighten the weight.
SPEAKER_00Definitely, yeah. But he definitely tore his ACL, MCL, yeah. Double double L T L like his leg is gone, but you know, fine.
SPEAKER_02Uh uh his Achilles, I don't know if you mentioned Achilles, Achilles is shredded, yeah, all of that. So, you know, he he eventually Webbs thips uh to the different sides of the building. Webb strand, this is an iconic scene. Everyone has seen this if you've watched these movies or is familiar with it, especially if you're a fan of this stuff, and you see the intense, is you know, there's gifts and everything about this, but he he's able to finally slow the train down. And after what I assume is him shredding all the fibers and his muscles, passes out, and the the passengers of the train catch his body and they they you know bring him into the train and lay him down. This scene right here is what Aunt May was talking about. There's a hero in all of us, like those people in in catching you know Peter and and you know realizing this this here's this kid who's out here putting his life in a line and everything. And even when Doc Ox shows up and you could tell they didn't wanna, but it's like I can't just let this dude you know take this kid, and they they stand up and they confront him, even knowing that they could he could rip them to shreds. Like that whole scene is just a I think it's a beautiful scene. It's it's it's an amazing scene from the action to the way it concludes. I think it's one of the best scenes in in any superhero movie.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, yeah, I think so. And then I mean the the pretty obvious Christ imagery is in there as well, with how you know Peter has his arm outstretched, you know, his body hangs in. The passengers have to end up carrying, like you said, kind of very similar to the classical Renaissance paintings of Christ after a crucifixion. Yes. So yeah, I I agree that this is kind of the epitome of what she was talking about all in one. Also, yeah, uh uh hell yeah, for the New Yorkers on the train. Not only were they like, yeah, we're not gonna tell anybody, even if it was kids, and I'm sure I mean this is 2002, right? 2004, 2004. So there's camera phones, you know. They're they're crappy, but you can just take a picture.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So nobody had their phone out, nobody was everybody like, don't worry about it, we got you, whatever. You know, doc uh Dr. Octopus comes back and says, Yeah, I'm gonna get him. And yeah, they do stand up, and he's like, All right, he immediately just pushed it to the side, and that was hilarious. That was so fucking hilarious. I was like, uh, I thought I for a second I thought he was gonna go through them, so I'm glad he just kind of pushed them away.
SPEAKER_02This could have been a situation where Doc Hawk just started just tearing people in half with his tentacles. It's not that kind of movie, though. It's not.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it was when he was killing the docs, but true, it was.
SPEAKER_02I I feel like Sam Raimi, if he had complete free license on Creative Liberties, he would have done some some some craziness like that. Just start slaughtering people in that terrain. Oh my gosh. Doc Hawk knocks Spider-Man out and essentially drops him off on Harry's doorstep, where Harry unmasks him to find out as right before he stabbed him, he finds out that it's his dear friend, Peter. And yeah, we already talked about this scene. It gets super awkward. Peter's like, dude, like we don't have time for this. And it's tough. He should have made time for it. Like, he really should have made time. Even like, okay, let's say after all this happened, does Peter go back to Harry and say, Hey dog, we need to talk about some things, obviously, right? Like, now none of that happens. So Peter's kind of a dick of a friend to Harry in this situation here. But he
Final Fight Redemption And River Science
SPEAKER_02he goes off and he he finds MJ, he finds Doc Hawk, and we have our last battle of the movie. But he does reveal himself to Doc Ock and asks he appeals to him after electrocuted him and it fried the the tentacles, the chip in the tentacles. So Doc Hawk was able to regain that man is dead.
SPEAKER_00That man is dead. I don't give a shit what you say. That man is dead. He did not turn into Superman all of a sudden. That man is dead.
SPEAKER_02Why is he so why is he dead in this? But little boy in Jurassic Park wasn't dead when he when he got electrocuted on that fence.
SPEAKER_00You know what? That's a great point. That's a great point. Oh my god. But uh Nah, you could see like voltage traveling through his body. That man is dead. Yeah, that little boy, he got like he got a little zap and he like threw him off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Doc, the voltage was going for several seconds. For several seconds. His heart turned on and off like a light switch multiple times in that interaction. A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Who knows? But if all it does was fry the inhibitor chip and he gets back his consciousness essentially, and he's not essentially a slave to the arms anymore.
SPEAKER_00But I'm so confused because I thought the inhibitor chip in the first place was supposed to stop it and it got fried at that time. It's supposed to I thought the inhibitor chip that was in the back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I guess it reactivated it, or I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. It killed the arms.
SPEAKER_02Like it just it just it did. Okay, so that happened. So Doc Hawk decides to sacrifice himself and save everyone by dropping the fusion bomb into the river.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Good luck to all the marine life in there.
SPEAKER_02You're an engineer. How does that work? Does that work?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I didn't think so. All right. Whole ecosystem. You know what?
SPEAKER_00Actually, actually, actually, actually, actually. So water is actually a really good Here we go.
SPEAKER_02Um No, we got a little science coming. I'm so excited. Let's hear it. I knew you would have an answer. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. No, water is really good for shielding, actually.
SPEAKER_02So oh, because they do put water in the containers for the nuclear reactors, right?
SPEAKER_00Right, right. You have to keep it not only for cooling, but it's a good, it's a good shield. It's a good shielder just naturally, and it's not expensive, so they use it all the time. Um now a hundred, you know, this thing's supposed to be super hot though, so all the water should have boiled off. So I don't know about that part.
SPEAKER_02You think that was hot enough to boil, boil the like dry up the river?
SPEAKER_00I think so. I'd have to get to dig more, but I think so. We're talking about a hundred million Celsius.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, if it's if it's a sun, right? Yeah, that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I dropped the sun in the middle of the ocean. It should zap that shit up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's true. Are we talking about how fast the water can cool the the sun, the tritium, versus how fast it can evaporate the water? Is that what we're battling against?
SPEAKER_00I guess so. And I don't know what this tritium thing is. I don't know if that's like a real thing. It is.
SPEAKER_02I looked, I did look it up. It is real. It is real. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know. Yeah, you'd have to look at that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right. Well, hey, it is radioactive as we thought, but it's it's it's like low-level radiation, but you can't touch it with your bare hands because you can't absorb it with your skin, but you can handle it with gloves and you'll be fine. Yeah, yeah. So, but I don't know. I don't know, but I don't know in what quantities that's okay with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know what this thing is putting out, and yeah, compared to what we can physically touch, or yeah.
SPEAKER_02All right. Well, hey guys, that was our science corner with Jill, the chemical engineer. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER_00They're gonna be like, they'll be like, give your degree back. I'm like, you know what? That's right. Yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, yikes, that's tough.
SPEAKER_01That's tough.
SPEAKER_02All right. All right, so the movie ends after this. We we get uh well, we get some setup for the third movie where Harry, where Harry hallucinates his dad and he discovers his Green Goblin lair. And yeah, I guess I guess Harry has a mental break, is what is being communicated here. So he fully hallucinates his dad, like right in front of him. And then he sees the Green Goblin stuff, and I guess he's immediately like Nice. Let me know.
SPEAKER_00But did he not know his dad was Green Goblin? He did not.
SPEAKER_02Harry Harry did. Oh, he took his uh Peter didn't want his to find him that way, so he took his costume.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which, however. Then that would tell you that, like, okay, Sperman didn't just kill your dad. He was fighting a terrorist who was fucking up the city, and that terrorist happened to be your father, you know. But I guess at this point Harry's too far gone. So let's save that for movie three, which is a way worse movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Also, though, MJ leaves her husband at the altar. MJ is not winning in this movie. It's pretty bad. But she leaves her husband at the altar, altar, and she goes to Peter and you know confesses her love and says, Hey, I've made a choice too. I want to be with you. I don't care. That's your Spider-Man. I don't care about the danger. Let's give love a chance.
SPEAKER_00Dumb.
SPEAKER_02Wow. Okay. Talk say more.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. Isn't this the second time she got kidnapped? Did she get kidnapped in the first movie too?
SPEAKER_02That's kind of her thing. So right.
SPEAKER_00So like that's and that's when you didn't know that was Spider-Man. Now you know that Spider-Man. Like, come on now.
SPEAKER_02She's like people and she says, I I feel like I've always known. I'm like, no, but that's gone. Because if you did, you would have been less of an asshole. Like you didn't know.
SPEAKER_00Right, exactly. You can understand that he missed your damn plate because he's over here saving a little Tommy from the fire, even though you know. Oh, we didn't even talk about that one and how he how he felt about yeah, the fire would he saved one, but not all. And he could maybe could have if he had used his powers.
SPEAKER_02Never mind the fact that he and that Kisha have had at least second-degree burns and smoke inhalation damage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So again, that's not like, okay, so he took off the costume, and I guess his web isn't working, but I guess he still has no no no no no.
SPEAKER_02At this point in time, he had zero powers. You're watching a regular dude with the depowered. Yeah, that makes no sense. No, no, no, he's deep powered, completely depowered. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, then oh yeah, it was tough.
SPEAKER_00Okay, anyway, let's go back to Mary Jane. Like, yeah, she's like, Oh, I was new. I was like, Well, though the man keeps disappearing every time Spider-Man pops up. Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But also, yeah, MJ was just a waste of my time. I was like, I I'd have loved it if he was like, Yeah, no, he's still like me, yeah, no, I'm good. I'm good.
SPEAKER_02You should go back to your fucking fiance.
SPEAKER_00You should probably go back and just tell him you went to the bathroom real quick. Like, yeah, nah, I'm actually alright at this point.
SPEAKER_02What'd you make of the ending of the movie? The final shot of the movie.
SPEAKER_00What's the final shot of the movie?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so the final shot of the movie. So after MJ comes, they say, Oh yeah, we're gonna be together, there's distress call or whatever happens. He's like, he's gotta go. She's like, go get him, Tiger. Oh, go get him tiger, yes. But yeah, yeah, the movie doesn't end with Peter swinging heroically through downtown, you know, Manhattan amid some low-ass fine helicopters, by the way, but whatever. But that's not where it ends. It ends on a scene of MJ standing in the window just with a look on her face. Looking, I don't know, is wistful the correct word or what, but I guess contemplating her choices or her decision or what's to come next. It's just that's an interesting choice to end the movie that way. Because again, the heroic swings were there. They could have just had him swing off into you know the sunset, and instead they decide to cut back to MG, like her being the final scene of the movie. I I thought that was very interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I must have looked away. I must have assumed the movie was done and looked away because I don't remember her looking out the window at all.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00I remember I remember the Get Him Tiger, and then I like, I guess I was like, all right, we good, and then I started preparing for this. So I missed that. But yeah, now that you mentioned that, that would be weird because it's not about her. So I'm not really sure what that was about.
SPEAKER_02Well, no, it's it's not about her, but it's about you can't say, What do you mean it's not about her? I mean, okay, so yes, you don't care about Kristen Dunn's performance. However, like Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson, like that's iconic duo right now.
SPEAKER_00That's classic, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like it's always gonna be about her, you know?
SPEAKER_00Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine.
Ratings Final Scores And Sign-Off
SPEAKER_02All right, all right, all right. Well, let's rate this thing. For any newcomers, we rate our movies based on five categories: plot and writing, acting, casting, production, cinematography, music and sound, and cultural impact. Everything is rated on a scale of one, two, ten. Jill, plot and writing, what do you have?
SPEAKER_00I like to plot for this one, so I gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_02Nice. I gave it, I had a nine. I'm gonna take off a point based on our discussion, but it's an eight for me now. Yay! Acting and casting, what do you have there?
SPEAKER_00Um I'm gonna give it a strong number in spite of Kirsten Dunst. I'm gonna give it an eight.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that is way stronger than I expected from you. I gave it a nine. Yes. So we're I thought you were gonna go way lower than that. But like you did like Toby. Uh Alpha Malina.
SPEAKER_00I did like Toby. I like Doc Ark.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You made me see the light with Aunt May, so I'm gonna give it a nice eight.
SPEAKER_02Oh, were you were you low on Aunt May before the discussion?
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say low, but I didn't I wasn't on the impact as strongly as you were until you like pointed it out. And I'm like, oh, okay. I now I see.
SPEAKER_02So production, cinematography, and visuals.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think they did a really good job, so I'm gonna give it a 10.
SPEAKER_02Nice. I gave that a nine, huh? Music and sound. What do you have here?
SPEAKER_00I thought the music was actually really good. Like it did what it was sorry, not to cut you.
SPEAKER_02It's Danny Elfman. I forgot to mention like Danny Elfman is a GOAT, like he's always a win for okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh I thought he did he did a good job, so I gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_02Nice. All right, I give it an eight for this for the score. And then cultural impact, where did you fall?
SPEAKER_00That one is a little bit troublesome. Troublesome, but I'm gonna give it an eight.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right, higher than I thought you would give it. I gave that a perfect ten. It's Spider-Man, baby. Like, come on. It's much more impactful than Spider-Man. Like, this was the second this film is what convinced everyone, like, okay, Spider-Man works on the big screen. We have received six more films with another one just releasing. Like this, there, this the impact of this is through the through the roof. So I I landed with a 10. All right, final score. You have a eight, a very strong eight, and I have an 8.8. Well, that will do it for our Real Talk and Banter on Spider-Man 2. To connect with us, to give us some feedback, or just say hello. Email us at real talkbanter at gmail.com. That's R-E-E-L Talkbanter at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_00Intelligence is not a privilege, it's a gift. And you use it for the good of mankind.