25: Don’t Miss This: What Nonprofit CEOs Need Before AFP ICON 2026

This is a timely conversation for nonprofit CEOs and executive directors who are thinking about how to strengthen fundraising, lead with more confidence, and position their organizations for sustainable growth.

In this episode, Marcia sits down with Art Taylor, President and CEO of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, to explore what’s actually working across the sector right now and to hear his perspective on the current state of giving and where leaders may be leaving opportunity on the table.

With AFP ICON 2026 happening April 26–28 in San Diego, this conversation offers a real-time lens into how conferences, community, and professional development can directly influence your leadership, your team, and your revenue strategy.

Why This Episode Matters

This episode will help you think differently about how to approach CEO-Executive Director level professional development and sector connection so you can lead (and recruit and retain development staff) with more clarity, stability, and confidence.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn

• How nonprofit CEOs can approach fundraising as a leadership strategy, not just a function
• What’s working across thousands of organizations and where leaders are missing growth opportunities
• Why operationalizing your culture strategy directly impacts fundraising and sustainability
• How to maximize conferences like AFP ICON 2026 beyond just attending
• Why the real value of events comes from what you do after you leave

Special Invitation

Marcia will be live at AFP ICON 2026 in San Diego (April 26–28) with a press pass, gathering insights and connecting with leaders across the sector.

If you’ll be there, email marcia@culturecares.com to get invited to a listener meetup.

Ready to Go Deeper?

If this conversation resonates, take a look at AFP ICON 2026 and consider whether being in that room is the right next step for you and your team.

👉 Registration link: AFPicon.org

If this episode gave you a new perspective, share it with a colleague or board member who’s thinking about fundraising, growth, and leadership right now.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to Nonprofit CEO Spark, the podcast for bold leaders ready to navigate growth and change with energy and confidence. I'm Marcia Beckner, nonprofit founder, former executive director, and culture strategist with nearly 20 years in the social impact world. Each week, I help nonprofit leaders stop spinning out, set boundaries, and design inclusive cultures where all staff can thrive. If you're ready to reignite your leadership without sacrificing your well-being, hit subscribe and let's spark your next chapter together. Welcome back to the Nonprofit CEO podcast. I'm your host, Marsha Beckner. And today's conversation is a very special one and a timely one because what we're talking about connects directly to decisions many of you are making right now about how you strengthen your fundraising strategy and leadership for the rest of the year. I will be at the AFP Icon Conference in San Diego, coming up very shortly. If you're listening to this, it's it's 2026, April 2026 right now, and the conference is like next week, April 26th through 28th. I'll be there with a press pass, which means I'll be there not just attending, but listening closely, asking questions, and pulling out the real takeaways that matter for you as a CEO or executive director. The AFP Icon Conference is in San Diego. I don't remember if I mentioned that yet, but I went to college there. It is the most beautiful place. So I want you to consider going as you're listening to this conversation today. Think how can I get myself there? If this is even remotely on your radar, I want you to listen to this conversation with that lens because this is the kind of insight that can help you decide whether being in the room is worth it for you and your team. If it is, don't wait long to register. We've included the link in the show notes so you can take a look right away. Because something a mentor told me years ago has stayed with me and shaped how I think about every conference or event since. It's not what happens at the conference or event, it's what happens after it. It's how you take what you learn, who you meet, and what you see working across the sector and actually apply it in a way that strengthens your leadership, your team, and your revenue. So if you're gonna be in San Diego, I'd love to meet you. Send me an email at marsha at culturecares.com, and I'll make sure you get an invite to a listener meetup while we're there. And to help us think about all of this at a much higher level, I'm so excited to be joined today by someone who doesn't just participate in these conversations, he helps shape them across the entire sector. Art Taylor is the president and CEO of the Association of Fundraising Professionals, and he has a front row seat to what's working across thousands of organizations, what's evolving, and where nonprofit leaders have a real opportunity to grow stronger and more sustainable. Art, I'm so glad to have you here. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Thank you. And it is just a pleasure to be here, especially as we head into ICON.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yes. Okay, so the Association for Fundraising Professionals is hosting the ICON conference in San Diego next week, like we mentioned. But first, I want to learn a little bit about you, and I'm sure our listeners do too. You've been in your role at AFP for about a year. You said April 1st was your anniversary. Happy anniversary.

unknown 3:56

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

I want you to give us like a little context and background about why you decided to dedicate this next phase of your career to helping fundraising professionals succeed.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Well, you know, a lot of people have asked me that question, and it's it's really pretty linear, actually. Um I was working alongside of the Generosity Commission. The Generosity Commission was a group that was organized to look into the state of giving and especially the decline in donor participation. Statistics showed that we had gone from 66% of families giving around the year 2000 down to about 49 and a half percent in 2017, 2018. And more recently, the numbers have declined to about 41%. As someone who's worked most of my career in the nonprofit space, I kind of felt that that's a crisis. And so I was asked by leaders of the Generosity Commission to join on a committee and co-chair the government relations and uh public policy task force to see if there were things we could do from that perspective to change that trajectory. It was fascinating work. We learned a lot and we came up with some ideas, and it occurred to me that some of those changes that needed to be made had to do with the state of fundraising. So just put a pin in that. We conclude the Generosity Commission's work, and shortly after, I get a call from one of the the recruiter for this particular position, just asking if I knew anyone who might be good for the job. And normally when I hear that, I will pass on names to the recruiter so that they could, you know, maybe consider some folk that I know who I think would be good. But in this case, I started thinking about whether I might be right for this, given what I learned from the Generosity Commission and my interest in this issue, which I think is so fundamental and foundational to everything we do, and that is getting everyday people back in the habit of giving. There's something going on in our culture. And from a fundraising perspective, you could see this happening more than a decade ago. You could see the shift on behalf of fundraisers going from trying to get everyday people giving to going after larger gifts. You see more major gift officers, organizations focusing quite heavily on finding what we consider to be major donors. And you can't blame them, right? On the one hand, it's better if you can get one donation that will cover all of your budget potentially, versus getting hundreds of donations to do that. Maybe it seems more efficient. But I don't know if it really helps the organization in the long run to be so dependent. I also don't know what that means for civic participation when people aren't giving to the causes that they care about. And so this to me was not only about what happens to organizations and their ability to deliver, but it's also about what happens to our democracy. Because in the end, when people give, they also vote, they also volunteer, they also are visible in the public space. And this to me was a big signal that we were maybe moving in a direction for a country that might not be recognizable some years ahead. But I reached back out to Nancy Rochette, who was doing the recruiting for this, and I said, Nancy, I'm interested. Um, let me know if the committee thinks I might be a good fit. And one thing led to another, and I got the job. But I'll tell you that from the first interview, I felt that I was the right person for this job. And I felt that the people interviewing me felt that I was the right person for the job. So that's how I got here.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

That's incredible. I love how you're thinking about um like donors and democracy and connecting those two because yeah, when you're giving to a cause that you care about or a specific organization, you're voting. You're voting that it that you trust that organization to make an impact in the community that you live in or a community that you care about. So I love that you're making that connection. It's so big picture, but it's also so relatable and doable, like with that lens. Um, and I think that the listeners right now are think can think about like major gifts versus smaller, you know, individual donations. And you've just made a really good case for doing major gifts and making sure that the grassroots like donation train is still like healthy and and living.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah. Well, I want to just add one thing though, which is you know, if you're an executive director or CEO of an organization, you got a lot of pressure on you, especially around fundraising these days. And so it's quite natural for you to look at your budget and ask the question can we really invest in going after small everyday gifts? Because you don't have a big budget for that, and as I said, it takes a lot of people to make up what you need to fill to get your budget taken care of. So I get it. So we have to find ways to do this in a way that's efficient, but also help organizations do the other part, which is get the money in the door. And getting the money in the door is about relationships. And so, you know, it's the executive director's feeling I've got to spend lots of time with people to get them to make that major gift, to get them to know the organization, to fall in love with it. This is one of the big misconceptions that many boards have about the fundraising process. Many of them think, well, we hired a fundraiser, so good, we're we don't have to do anything more. Just let the fundraiser do what they do, and we'll just ask them how much money came in the door when we have our board meetings. And it just doesn't work like that. What fundraisers do, in my opinion, the definition of good fundraising is building relationships with potential and existing donors and stewarding them so that over a long period of time, an organization has a stable and predictable base of support. That's what fundraising is all about. And if you have a different perspective on that, that's fine. But understand that when fundraisers are high performing, it's because they've been with the organization a while, they know what they're doing, and they know how to connect with people and build the kind of relationships that are going to drive success.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Can you say that definition one more time? I think it's it's good to get people on the same page with like how the association of fundraising professionals.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Well, I'm just I'm not talking about the association. We have 25,000 people, and many of them will have their own definition.

unknown 12:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

When I look at what fundraisers do, what I see are people who spend time building relationships with donors and potential donors and stewarding them so that over a long period of time, an organization has a stable and predictable base of funding. That's what we should be doing. Yeah. And I need, I'm hoping that boards will support that because we're also seeing lots of burnout in our profession. People who are leaving the profession because they're inside of organizations who are so stressed that they're pushing their fundraisers to do things that fundraisers don't do, and that is ask for money when it's not time, pressuring people to make gifts. That's not what we do. That's not good fundraising. And, you know, donors can smell desperation. And that's not to say we shouldn't be passionate. We should be. But we also have to make sure that we're asking people who are ready to make those gifts and helping them through that journey to get them ready, helping them see how they can be the hero in this equation, along with the work that the organization is going to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah. Well, I think that's a lot of the work that your association does with professional development and helping them. How do you steward donors? You know, what are best practices? What are the ethical practices? So, how should nonprofit leaders be thinking about AFP membership as a revenue strategy for their organization versus just a professional development expense?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

We know that people who are trained to be fundraisers raise more money than people who don't, who aren't. And we think that's because they do what we were just saying before. They take time to steward those donors, bring them in. That is the ideal place that we want to get people as fundraisers. Now, if you look at the landscape, there are 25,000 members of AFP. And that's not to say that the only members of AFP are the trained people. That's not true. But if you ask the Department of Labor how many people say they're fundraisers, it'd be somewhere around 125,000. Now, here's what's really interesting. There are 1.5 million organizations. And even if you assume that a third of them were doing fundraising, how many people out there are actually raising money with maybe little or no training? Hundreds of thousands of people are out there raising money with little to no training. And what does that do for first the profession of fundraising? Right? How does that make people feel when they are visited by people who don't quite know what they're doing? What does that experience translate into for a potential donor? And what does that mean for the organization actually trying to raise money? I mean, they're probably getting way smaller gifts than they could have if they did the work the right way. And the profession is suffering in a way because people see what's not working when they get someone who's not trained to be a fundraiser, and they import that thinking to all fundraising. So you ask the question well, how does that relate to revenue? You're going to raise more money if you know what you're doing. Simple as that. We have people who spent decades studying this, doing it, and there's so many tools and techniques that you can learn being a member of our association. You're going to connect with people in a chapter and become connected to them in a way that creates personal relationships where you share information and learnings. Can even get to know donors through people who've spent time with those donors. You may even find career opportunities and ways to enhance the impact that you can make inside of your organization as a leader. This is an association that will help you from A through Z in your career as a nonprofit leader. Because frankly, one of the most important skills that any nonprofit leader needs to have is the ability to fundraise.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

And do you see CEOs and executive directors coming through or sending, you know, if they have development staff, you know, or just one person, they send the development professional on their team. But I mean, I want, I think when I was an executive director for almost 10 years, I knew of association of fundraising professionals and thought it was the premier, the premier membership that I needed to succeed for my organization. As the executive director, CEO, gotta have fundraising skills, right? That it just you just have to. You can't source that out to people all together. Hopefully you will grow your team and your revenue and have lots of support. But and you know, even then, I feel like the CEO and the executive director needs to be a part of this membership to make those connections. You may find other people that you could hire onto your team for as your revenue grows. It is an incredible networking opportunity. So I want to just pivot right now to the conference because we are time sensitive. It's gonna be next week, right? The um San Diego conference, um, April 26th through 28th in San Diego. Um, and so I'm excited to see you and meet you in person, Art, at this at this conference. Um, what separates attendees who leave your conferences energized but unchanged from those who translate the experience into measurable results back at their organization?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, I do want to make one last comment about the executive directors, which is the fastest growing segment by far in our association are small nonprofit executives. Fastest growing. So they're figuring it out, they're seeing what you're seeing. And it's great that they're coming to us, understanding that this is where we can learn to do our jobs better, and as you said, be able to, when the time comes, hire people and evaluate them properly and get our boards engaged in a way that they should be engaged. So, all right, that's that. Now you ask about the conference, and how does a person really maximize the experience? I think is really, really where you're going, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Exactly. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Um, well, first thing I'll say there'll probably be somewhere around 32, 3300 people there. Massive convention center, um, people from all over the world, 200 education sessions, a major keynote address at the beginning where we give out awards and you hear from uh speakers, and then a closing session as well. There'll be receptions, there'll be uh opportunities to connect and network with people. Um, there'll be chapter-led events, there'll be affiliate-led events. So there are going to be a massive number of things to do and to experience while you're at icon. And so the question that many people will have of how do we do this and not be overwhelmed? Try to pick what courses, what what uh sessions you want to attend. And that was always hard. But this year we came up with a tool that will help people know which sessions they should take based on their interests. We think this is going to be a game changer for people who are coming for the first time or who are there and not really knowing what sessions they should attend. And you can use this tool and it will ask you some information about yourself and what your interests are, and then it will give you a menu of possible options that will work for what you're trying to learn. And I think this will be key in helping you maximize your learning experience. On the front of connecting, we think this is really important. Sometimes the best thing to do is to go to the convention center and visit with all of the various vendors and tools that you'll want to maybe consider for your own organization. And I always say if you can if you can do up front, if you can connect with people up front saying that, hey, let's get together at Icon, that's great. But if you don't know anyone, there's always people from From the AFP team who will be there, who can help you connect with others who you might want to connect with.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I love that. And I just I'll piggyback on that as well that I'll be there. So if anyone's there for the first time or going alone and you don't know anyone, send me an email, Marsha at culturecares.com, and I will make sure that we will connect one-on-one. You can be invited to my meetup, and I'll I'll also help you network if you if you're not sure if you should go. Or if you should, if you're not sure if you should go, that you're alone, you won't be alone because I'll be there. So I'll make I'll make sure you're connected. Um I love that. How about like can you share an example if you just have one on the top of your head of a member organization that went last year that fully leveraged AFP and saw a meaningful shift in their organization's fundraising or meeting specific people that took them to a new level?

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Well, what most people share with me is not so much, you know, we learned something and we went back, and all of a sudden our fundraising increased by X number. Although I'm sure that exists because the speakers are amazing. But what we do hear more of from people is what a great experience. I got so much positive energy from connecting, from hearing people speak, from learning new things, and just being in a place where there's so many other people who are going through what I'm going through. That's what I hear more about. Just the joy and the excitement and the recharging of batteries that fundraisers and now executive directors and board members too go through. We're in a tough moment, as you know. People are going through a lot. There's a lot of anxiety and even fear, given the environment that we're in. Organizations are struggling. And sometimes we just need to be around others who are going through what we're going through and who can give us a lift. And that's what spark is, right? At ICOM. Give you a spark that maybe will ignite your fire and put you in a position where when you leave there, your batteries are recharged and you're ready to go after whatever the challenges are that lay ahead of you.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

I love that. And I just got back from a conference yesterday in Minneapolis. I was the keynote speaker at the Epilepsy Foundation Leadership Conference. Amazing organization. I just have to tell you that it completely lit me up. I mean, just being together in person with people who, you know, have a challenging mission and a passion for the patients and the caregivers that they serve. They had so much fun together. This is a remote organization. And so many of us are remote right now. And we we've almost like devalued why do I have to, you know, get into an office or get on a plane to go to a conference and be with others that are like in similar situations. I can't even like overestimate how important this these in-person venues are to connect with others in the nonprofit world. It is, I feel like everybody should be doing this at least once a month. I'm just so passionate about this. And you will just feel it's like you said, it's that injection of positive energy because the world is like pulling us apart, or the media is. And we've got to just proactively and intentionally come together around a common cause and help people. And that's what fundraisers do.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

We're being very intentional about this this year. And our opening keynote is Bob Johansson, who is a futurist. Bob has been doing future work, futurist work for more than 50 years. And he was around during the creation of this thing called the ARPANET, which later became the Internet. And he was somewhat connected to that in a significant way because the organization that he led, the Institute for the Future, was a spinoff of the Rand Corporation, which was also very involved in that at the time. Well, Bob has written many books on how we get to the future early. And his most recent book is called Navigating the Age of Chaos. I bet many of us are feeling that right now, right? The Age of Chaos. And he and his co-authors, um, Jamaez Cassio and Angela Williams, who was formerly the CEO of the United Way worldwide and a good friend of mine, co-authored this book. And they are introducing to many people this concept of Bonnie, B-A-N-I, brittle, anxious, nonlinear, and incomprehensible. That's a lens through which they describe the world that we're living in right now. And it can be very frightening and anxiety-ridden, but they leave us with some hope in this book. And the hope that they leave us with is called Bonnie Plus, a way of flipping Bonnie into some positive ways of getting through this. And many of those Bonnie Plus concepts relate to how we communicate and how we relate to each other as humans. And so that's a theme that you'll see. This speech is going to be amazing, Bob's presentation. I can't wait for people to see it and experience Bob. He changed my life literally about 17 years ago when our organization, organization I was with at the time, my CEO, the BBB Wise Giving Alliance, was doing well, but I was feeling like things are changing in the environment. I can't quite figure out what it all means. And I got introduced to the Institute for the Future and learned tools through which I could better understand how to live with one foot in the present and maybe a few toes in the future. And it's changed my life. It's changed the way I lead, it's changed the way I think. And I know this will, for many people, start them on a similar path if they aren't already. There's a lot of reasons to be anxiety late right now. But I think some of the tools and techniques that we'll get from this talk will actually help us with that anxiety.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

I cannot wait. I'm so excited to see that. And people can go to aficon.org right now and register. Make sure you don't miss this. You just have to be in a room with people who care about the world and turning this chaos on its head. And really, it all it's all about being together and connection and relationships. So excited to see what was so life-changing for you and look at life through a new lens. And I know that that'll be energizing for everybody there. Before we wrap up, I wanted to hit on one other topic. And I know that you and I are both passionate about that, as well as the listeners to this podcast. And that's about culture, team culture in the fundraising world, in the nonprofit world. Culture is very, you know, full of burnout, stress, and overwhelm, which is very understandable. And um, and my work is all about bringing down that level of burnout, stress, and overwhelm and and lifting, helping leaders design a culture that cares. And um, and I know that AFP now is doing work around culture with the with the forge framework. And I would love you to touch on that and kind of what, like, why did that come to be as a priority, and what is it?

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Great. Thanks for asking that question. When I joined the association as a CEO, the board had already created a strategic plan. And the strategic plan had three pillars: elevating the member experience, revolutionizing education, and extending our reach into areas where we hadn't gone. Well, those three areas were also to be tied with creating belonging in our association. We wanted to make sure that through those pillars we extended belonging through them. So we needed to come up with a way to operationalize that. And I began thinking about how we might do that based on many years of watching the pendulum swing, so to speak, from let's be inclusive and allow everybody to participate to let's not be so inclusive. And and the pendulum continues to swing back. I've watched this over many decades, going back to the mid-1970s, even. And one of the things I learned from that is we have to make sure that we make a business case for anything related to inclusion when it comes to institutions. It sh it should be something that we see as a moral obligation. And it is. Companies really can't maximize their potential unless they are more diverse and inclusive of the people who they need to perform at a high level in order for them to maximize their results. Studies have shown that firms that are more diverse and inclusive and bring people in to work in a way that works best for them and to maximize what they're able to do are firms that succeed. And so we're very different today than we were back then. The business case has been made today, unlike the business case in 1980. In 1980, like I said, if the pendulum swung, nobody cared. Today, it matters that the pendulum swings because firms don't do as well. And at AFP, we're at a really interesting moment because we see that some of the emerging places where we could be raising more money will be coming from diverse communities. From what I'm learning, the fastest growing economic segments in our society are people from diverse backgrounds. And we're not represented well in the association of fundraising professionals, which right now the numbers are somewhere around, I would say 85% of all fundraisers are white, according to surveys. So we have work to do. Now, the the the trick, if it's a trick, not a trick, but let me use that colloquialism to describe what I want to say. We have to bring new people in to the profession from these diverse backgrounds, while we keep the people who are already in the profession. We can't have new people coming in and others feeling like, you know, this isn't a place for me anymore. And people who are coming in have to feel welcome, or else they're gonna leave. So we came up with these this project to operationalize what I'm talking about. And it's called forge. These forge is simply values, fairness, openness, respect, grace, and empathy. Those words, the first letters spell forge. But then there's work behind that. The work is mainly through four distinct work groups that are interrelated in many ways. But defining what we mean by belonging. You can imagine a group of people taking something that is very subjective and trying to make it more objective. Because what you need to feel like you belong may be very different than what I need to feel like I'm belonging. And so we have to study this inside of our association and bring as many people into defining what our association means by that and then holding ourselves accountable, right? So how do we do that? That's the next group. The next group is all about making sure that we assess our policies, pre-procedures, practices, and maybe cultural mores, right? To see that we are managing our customs even in ways that align with that definition of belonging. And if we're not, then we have to decide if we want to make changes. If we do, then there's a change management process that we have to go through. But if we decide that we don't want to change, and there may be reasons why we don't want to make certain changes, even though we know we're outside of the boundaries of what we describe as belonging on some things, then what are the accommodations that we want to make for people who might be affected? So that would be the third work group. What does accommodation look like for people who we know our practices might not be working as best for? And then lastly, and perhaps most difficult, this is what's going to be key in keeping new people in and people who've been around and at the same time, is learning how to communicate and work across difference. And I would argue very few people know how to do that. I'm on, I chair the board of an organization called Convergence Policy. And we just had our annual summit yesterday. And there are ways in which you can get people to work together across differences, people who you would never think would ever work together on anything. And at the end of a process, they not only work together, but they actually come to appreciate one another. And we need that inside of AFP if we're going to succeed with this. But that's the work. So we have the values, we have the work, and it's going to involve more than 200 to 300, 200 to 300 volunteers and ways to engage our entire association at some way, in some ways, and in some at some point, in creating the success for this uh this project Forge Ahead. So that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

We also know, let me just say last thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

We also know from speaking with Bob that our the keynote speaker at icon, that there's a connection between Bonnie Plus and Forge. Oh. And we're going to be talking about that during the keynote and during a separate session that Bob is going to do in one of the breakout rooms if people want to participate in that. But there's a connection between Forge and Bonnie Plus. It's about Spark, it's about Forge and creating greater belonging, and it's about flipping this negative Bonnie into a positive body. And all of that starts with being able to work together as human beings and to uplift each other.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

I love it. You're just leaving us on a cliffhanger. I'm so excited to go and experience it. I want to thank you so much, Art, for your time. I'm sure that you've got a lot to do since the conference is just about a week away. But let me just, you know, share one last time with our listeners that AFP Icon is the world's number one conference for fundraisers, hosted by the Association of Fundraising Professionals. It's just a few days away, April 26th through 28th, 2026, in beautiful San Diego. You'll meet more than 3,000 change makers who will be there for a three-day period of time of learning, networking, and growth. And I will be there as well, as I mentioned. It is my first conference, so I'm so excited. Um, visit aficon.org or go to our show notes for the link to register and let me know if you're going so that we can meet up as well. And thank you. I look forward to connecting with you there, Art, and meeting all the great people on your team and all the other organizations. We have to come together as humans in person in this remote world, it's more important than ever.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Well, thank you, and I'm looking forward to seeing you as well. And everyone, we'll see you very soon in San Diego.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yes, thank you. Thanks for listening to today's episode of Nonprofit CEO Spark. If you're ready to turn burnout into boundaries and build a healthy, happy culture where everyone, including you, can thrive. Visit culturecares.com to learn how I support nonprofit organizations like yours. If this episode brought you value, share it with a fellow leader navigating stress and overwhelming. And remember, you are meant for great things, and you don't have to burn out to prove it. Until next time, keep leading with courage and confidence.