The Flourish Feed Podcast
A series of curiosity driven deep dives into the nature of flourishing through wealth.
The Flourish Feed Podcast
#33 - The Invisible System of Her
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For decades, women have been asked to plan their lives—careers, families, health, and finances—without visibility into one of the most powerful systems shaping all of it: the ovary.
In this groundbreaking conversation, Gillian sits down with Kiran Kumar, founder and CEO of Timeless Biotech, to explore how AI is unlocking a completely new category of insight: ovarian age as a vital sign.
What emerges is a profound shift in how we understand women’s health:
🔬 The ovary isn’t just about fertility, it’s the master regulator of longevity
🔬 Women live longer than men, yet spend 25% more of their lives in poor health
🔬 Menopause isn’t a moment, it’s a multi-year biological transition with massive downstream effects
🔬AI can now translate complex hormone data into predictive, actionable intelligence
Kiran shares how her company is building the world’s first ovarian age clock, enabling women to:
☑️ Predict menopause timing
☑️ Personalize fertility and career decisions
☑️ Intervene earlier with tools like HRT and lifestyle changes
☑️ Protect long-term health across heart, brain, and metabolic systems
At its core, this episode is about agency. Because when women can finally see what’s happening inside their bodies, they can start making decisions that align their time, energy, attention, and money - not around guesswork, but around truth.
Quotes:
• “The ovary is actually the number one lever for female health span.”
• “If you want to live healthy for as long as possible, then you need to focus on ovarian health.”
• “Virtually every organ system of the body is hinging on ovarian lifespan.”
• “Women, while we live longer than men, spend 25% more of our lives in poor health.”
• “We’ve always considered the ovary an unmoving ticking time bomb… which is simply not the case.”
• “There’s too much variation from one woman to the next for us to be working off population averages.”
• “We wanted to introduce personalization so women can decide based on their own values - not population averages.”
• “This is a vital sign… it needs to be tracked.”
• “We’re catching up in the health race by finally taking the ovary into account.”
Chapters:
00:00 The Invisible System: Understanding Women's Health
04:09 Ovarian Age: A Vital Sign for Women
05:51 The Complexity of Women's Health Data
10:02 Moments of Innovation: Kiran's Journey
15:08 Menopause: A Unique Challenge for Women
16:34 Data Insights: Learning from Women's Hormonal Phases
19:26 Understanding Ovarian Age vs. Chronological Age
21:27 The Duration of Menopause: A Critical Transition
23:00 Proactive Healthcare: Managing Ovarian Age
27:42 Lifestyle Factors and Ovarian Aging
29:45 Engaging with Timeless Biotech
32:56 The Importance of Ovarian Age Awareness
33:54 HRT: Timing and Its Impact on Ovarian Health
36:41 Testing Frequency: Understanding Biomarkers
38:12 Empowering Women: Planning for the Future
40:36 Patient Stories: Transformative Experiences
42:46 Building a Business: Trust and Viability
45:33 An All-Woman Team: A Unique Approach
47:55 AI's Future Impact on Women's Health
49:59 NEWCHAPTER
Check out Kiran’s work and Timeless Biotech:
Timeless Biotech
Menotime ovarian age clock
Kiran Kumar on LinkedIn
#flourish #wealth #wealthmanagement #investing #advisor #KnowThyWealthKnowThyself
Connect with Gillian:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillian-stovel-rivers-ma-cfp%C2%AE-cea-997094124/?originalSubdomain=ca
https://x.com/GillianStovelR
https://www.instagram.com/gillianstov...
https://flourishfamilywealth.com
The Flourish Feed Podcast, a series of curiosity-driven deep dives into the nature of flourishing through wealth. I'm your host, Gillian Stovel Rivers, M A C F P C E A, Senior Wealth Advisor at CIA Sante Wealth Management.
SPEAKER_00When we talk about the ovary, we think we're just talking about fertility because that's really where we start to focus on our ovarian health when we start to have issues with conceiving and when we focus on being able to bring new life into the world. But the reason why we focus on it with so much detail is because research finds that the ovary is actually the number one lever for female health span. What does that mean? That means if you want to live healthy for as long as possible, then you need to focus on ovarian health and ovarian health span.
SPEAKER_01We've built entire financial plans, careers, and identities around timelines without ever being able to see one of the most important biological systems shaping them. For decades, women have been asked to make decisions about family, work, health, and money with incomplete information about their own bodies. Not because the means to understand it didn't exist, but because it wasn't visible, it wasn't researched. And as a result, there are so many implications and health outcomes that appeared random. And so even if we could name what was happening on the surface, the medicine certainly wasn't actionable. So in short, we've been planning lives around something we couldn't see, around a body that works, but we couldn't fully understand why or how. This invisible system very much exists in our own bodies and our day-to-day lives. But until my guest today asked the question, how can we leverage all of this data to create knowledge and impact at scale? I, like every other woman before me, walked a lot of my health journey in the proverbial dark. And as it happens, maybe the reason I flinch when I say the word ovary is because only women have them, or because many aren't even exactly sure what it is and how it does and how it happens, or simply because it produces flashbacks of grade seven health class. Who knows? But in case you like me also didn't know very much about what happens to be the very epicenter of creation itself, the ovary is about the size of an almond. It weighs less than a teaspoon of sugar. And when a baby girl is born, each ovary contains approximately one million eggs. So much like the very finite 1,440 minutes you have every day, the roughly hundred years of your lifespan or the 140 bytes of information you can process at any one time, the ovary is not just an organ, it is a finite, time-sensitive biological system that governs far more than reproduction. Over and above the connections that this little powerhouse has with the rest of the human body, as we're going to explore today, it holds profound power to solving highly important problems, like how and when a woman can mindfully plan the chapters of her career, her earning years, when or even if she should invest in in vitro fertilization or hormone replacement therapy, and how to invest her time, energy, and attention and money to extend both health span and impact across generations. My guest today is the very impressive Kiran Kumar, founder and CEO of Timeless Biotech, a software company developing AI-powered biomarkers, starting with Menotime, the first and only ovarian age clock. Kieran is a biotechnology bioengineer who's worked in the longevity space with brands like Timeline, OneSkin, and Eli Health. Kieran is on a mission to make ovarian age a vital sign, giving women and their providers the predictive intelligence to act early and effectively. And her company, Timeless Biotech, is developing AI-powered biomarkers that analyze blood work that doctors are already running. Our flagship product, their flagship product, Menotime, is a patent pending AI-powered ovarian age clock and time to menopause predictor, built as a clinical decision support tool. Wouldn't that be incredible? Oh my goodness. Timeless is actively licensing the tool to clinics, digital health care providers, and health systems to enable improved care across fertility, perimenopause, cardiovascular prevention, metabolic conditions, and more. But in case you're still asking yourself, why ovarian aging, well, my friends, it turns out the greatest way to have impact at scale, as Kieran says, is to start by focusing on something that is small. So Kieran Kumar, thank you so much, and welcome to the FlutterSweet Podcast.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for such an incredible intro, Jillian, and so happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful. Now, I just use a lot of words to describe something you do that is very complex about something that is very, very tiny. But if you had to say it simply, what is the system inside a woman's body that most shapes her life that we've historically had the least visibility into? What are your words for all of this?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. You said it best. The ovary seems very inconsequential. When we talk about the ovary, we think we're just talking about fertility because that's really where we start to focus on our ovarian health when we start to have issues with conceiving and when we focus on being able to bring new life into the world. But the reason why we focus on it with so much detail is because research finds that the ovary is actually the number one lever for female health span. What does that mean? That means if you want to live healthy for as long as possible, then you need to focus on ovarian health and ovarian health span. It's a very pertinent element for our entire body's health. So you're talking about brain health, bone health, muscle health, heart health, virtually every organ system of the body. And it's all hinging on what we consider the ovarian lifespan because of the importance of hormones like estrogen and like progesterone in the body. So because of this important link to our overall full body health, we wanted to find a way to map ovarian lifespan, map ovarian health so we could make it clinically visible in practice.
SPEAKER_01That sounds so fascinating and so relevant to at least half the people that I know, those being the women. But why did this remain invisible for so long? If it's a science problem, then why didn't science look at it earlier? If it's a data problem, why weren't we collecting data earlier? I mean, or is it is it a prioritization problem? Why did it stay invisible for so long?
SPEAKER_00Well, I would say it's a cocktail of problems for sure, like most women's issues are. There's definitely elements of prioritization, of course, with women's exclusion and clinical trials for so long, obviously, and even when researched, most of the time women are researched in the post-menopausal years because the cycle introduces complications. So I like to equate it to the human tendency to avoid things that are complicated. As people, we have a tendency to stray away from things that aren't as clear and direct. And the ovarian cycle is anything but clear and direct and easy to analyze. So when we talk about research and we talk about controlled settings, there is a natural tendency to move away from these populations. However, now, because we have advanced tools that are able to take large amounts of information and synthesize them and interpret them and recognize them and give us simple outputs and simple answers, we can revisit this problem and tackle it in a way that doesn't put as much of the pressure of understanding complex things on us, but instead puts it on machines like machine learning engines and artificial intelligence.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's brilliant. So we can't just blame the fact that it remained unlooked at for so long. It's actually also a, as you called it, a complexity problem. But let's go into that complexity problem a little more. Yes, it operates on a cycle. Women operate on a cycle, but is it also the variability of women never having the same cycle twice or some women never actually sharing the same cycle? Is there, is it also like endlessly kaleidoscopic in its, in its permutations? Is that part of the challenge? And how is it that AI is helping you solve that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. So there's one level of variation that you mentioned, right? Which is the cyclic level variation. Then there's variation of one woman's hormone levels versus another woman's hormone levels. One woman's normal could be another woman's high, and one woman's high could be another woman's low. That's the crazy thing about hormone values and why it's so difficult to extract meaning from a hormone test. Because my estrogen could be way higher than someone else's. How would you know if I'm experiencing estrogen decline if you take a static one-time blood test? It's very, very challenging. So there's variation from one woman to the next because there's personalization. On top of that, you have variation within the cycle. We try to understand when is a woman going through a follicle phase, a luteal phase, which are all stages of ovary development. We don't have to go into that. We don't know too much about it, anyways. And when a person is ovulating. So we assume you must ovulate at the 14-day mark in your cycle, midway through your cycle. But that's not true at all. You could be ovulating. Not everybody, it's not true. Exactly, exactly. So there's just a lot of levers and things that are in flux in the woman's system. And that's why it's been so challenging to recognize where woman's ovarian health stands. And we typically go based on symptoms that are incredibly generic and hard to pinpoint. So when we were starting to develop this tool, we wanted to focus on giving the machine all this information that we are being historically trying to interpret to map the ovary and allow it to run its conditional pathways, in our case, 100,000 conditional pathways to figure out and see what we couldn't.
SPEAKER_01That's remarkable. So tell us a little bit more about that moment of innovation for you. I would love to know the moment when you add the aha of what it is you were going to be solving for. Like this is going to be my life's purpose. I now know it. But also, what were the ingredients you were working with that you started with? And then I want to talk a little bit about the things that those ingredients are helping you solve for. Because I remember us talking about this before. It was a particular data set that you had that was that was unique, that was never, never before had been gathered. But tell me the story of how we got to here and then and then where we're going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I can tell you my origin story. It's definitely a long arc, and it took a long time to get where we are today. I'll say that for sure. At the beginning, I came at this problem from two main angles. One was from the longevity perspective. I spent a lot of time in the longevity space, which is largely focused on being able to maximize health span. So, how long can you live healthy for? And that's where this real incredible statistic that really puts things into perspective kind of threw me off, which tells us that women, while we do live longer than men on average, spend 25% more of our lives in poorer health. That means even yes. That's a big number. That's a big number. And you can see it when you observe in the population that a lot of women are dealing with a crippling or chronic condition, especially in later years, especially post-menopause. And when I spoke to more and more women going through that transition or who had gone through that transition, I heard them describe it as genuinely a second life. In many cases, they couldn't really recognize themselves during that time. And it really started to put things into perspective because I was looking at all these different longevity protocols, all these women who were doing all the right things, they were doing the intermittent fasting, they were doing the exercise right, they were following all of these protocols that we were promoting in the longevity space, but then getting hit by this transition. And it seemed that all of that work that was dedicated to helping them live healthy for as long as possible was not really fructifying for them. This transition was acting as like multiple steps back. And then I started speaking to more experts in the space, and that's when they really drew my attention to the importance of ovarian lifespan for female longevity, which was not being focused on in the traditional longevity space that was looking more at male data. So that's really what drew my attention in this space and my background working with machine learning, which is the second angle, and technical know-how is how I was able to kind of piece those two things together.
SPEAKER_01That is absolutely remarkable. So this disconnect that happens, you know, people have invested the right amount of time and energy in their health, in their exercise, in their nutrition habits, and then they're hit with this moment at menopause where they are unable to recognize themselves. Is there anything like that that happens in the male body, or is this ovarian aging thing very, very unique as a problem to be solved for the second half of life?
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's an incredibly unique problem. We don't see a system that has this much importance in this type of behavior in a man. However, I can give the comparison. So what would be analogous to menopause in a man would be andropause. So it's the steady decline of testosterone throughout a man's life. And if you see graphs, I obviously can't capture the essence of what we can see visually, but if you see graphs that show the steady decline of testosterone in a man's life starting at around age 30, it's very steady, it's very like constant, it's very consistent. And obviously there are ways for men to supplement testosterone because they will have symptoms that arise over time. They'll just gradually become more prevalent. Whereas you look at a graph of a woman experiencing menopause, and you have obviously the ovarian fluctuations of all of these ovarian hormones, so you got estrogen throughout their premenopausal years, and then you've just got this huge chaotic period that can last for up to 10 years, which is considered perimenopause, where things really just go completely out of whack, and then boom, it completely declines. So a postmenopausal woman in many cases might actually have less estrogen than a man because of how significant that decline is. And also one thing to mention that while women are experiencing parametopause and menopause, they're also having that similar decline of testosterone in their body as well. Oh, really? Right. Yes, exactly. And what we fail to recognize in this space is that even though we as women, like we consider our prevalent hormone estrogen, we actually have more testosterone than we have estrogen. It's just we never realize that with our blood tests because of the unit conversions.
SPEAKER_01Wow. You know what? And it's so funny how I equate the one word with women and the other word with men. And it hasn't really occurred to me, not only do we have all of them, because I'm sure men probably have some amount of estrogen. Am I right in that? Like it's still, it's just a proportionality thing, but that we could actually have more of the one thing than than they than they do, or at different points in time, we could have absolutely none of either one of them. And that that variability of how we experience hormones is so much dramatically different than theirs is. So now I want to talk a little bit about the earlier part of life. And then I want to talk about what it is that this is showing you as it relates to other systems in the body, because obviously, if you go through this maelstorm of wicked volatility only to be finishing at an area where there are no more hormones, there's going to be an impact on those other systems. But let's start with what you're learning from data in the earlier part of life. I imagine you probably are gathering data from people who are pre-menopausal, who might even be younger and they're looking to understand their hormone footprint for other life decisions. What are you learning from women who are in sort of the menstrual phase of life as opposed to the peri or menopausal phase of life? And is that helping inform anything about those later stages or maybe even inform healthcare decisions pre-menopause?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, so we are focused on the premenopausal and perimenopausal population because our tool is all about predicting your final menstrual period, so predicting your age of menopause and using that to ascertain your estimated ovarian age. So the reason we are doing this and focusing on this is because we generalize a lot based on chronological age in women's health, especially with things pertaining to fertility. If you ask many physicians, like, where do I stand? How much time do I have left? Should I freeze my eggs, or should I be considering IBF? In many cases, they'll ask you how old you are and just have that as a rule of thumb to go with. They might do some hormone testing, but like we discussed, there's so much variation in those hormones, it's really difficult to actually get a snapshot of how much time you have left and what your reproductive lifespan looks like. So instead of working off of chronological age for a very significant decision, we wanted to introduce that level of personalization into woman's decision making so you can decide based on your own values, not based on population averages. Take it from me, I've looked at the data. There is too much variation from one woman to the next. There's too broad a distribution for us to be working off of population averages in 2026 to decide how much time a woman has left to conceive. It's a really major decision that we're working, like we're not adding any element of personalization to.
SPEAKER_01And absolutely making decisions in the dark. As I feel like I've made most of my life healthcare decisions as a female in the dark, but now I really feel why. And that is because a lot of this was based on generalization. I don't want to freak anybody out, but if you have any sense of when you understand your chronological age versus your ovarian age, are there really wild swings in the difference in those numbers for some people? Or are they within a standard deviation of maybe a few years? How wide of a range have you seen in the difference between chronological and ovarian age?
SPEAKER_00We've seen pretty wide differences. The first test we actually ran clinically was with Kayla Barnes. If you're familiar with her, she's very big in the female longevity space. She's actually one of our advisors. She's considered the most measured woman in the world. So she was very excited to get this done. And she does a lot of biohacking. So we expected a positive result from her. But what we found is that she actually had a five-year younger ovarian age from her chronological while being in her 30s. So that's very early on in your interesting. Yeah, in your reproductive lifespan to have that significant, like lower ovarian age, especially considering how narrow that reproductive lifespan typically is. So that's one result that that was like our opening result. And since then, we have seen significant cases of acceleration where the person was actually at risk for premature ovarian insufficiency, meaning a clinically early menopause. So they're at risk for their ovaries failing early. And there are certain proactive interventions the person can take to prevent that from happening, potentially. We haven't been able to develop much interventional data because we've never had a tool like this before used, but there are definitely strong medically recommended things that they can start acting on. So we've seen in multiple different directions a variation. To give an idea of how broad the distribution is, according to like statistical data, 80% of women have menopause in a 20-year range. A 20-year range for a reproductive lifespan.
SPEAKER_01And this is a moment, although peri can be 10 years, how menopause itself is how long in duration? It's just a moment, is it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's technically just a moment. You're absolutely right. Whereas perimenopause, that's basically the entire transition that can happen seven to 10 years before. So if you're looking at this distribution of 80% of women, right? So you're not talking about the outliers here. And you're looking at this 20-year range, so from 40 to 59, that means it's not unusual for a woman in her early 30s to start experiencing perimenopausal symptoms. That doesn't make her an outlier.
SPEAKER_01Right. Imagine if we had had this, and it's just the beginning. Like I feel like everything you're doing is just the beginning because we're getting one sample right now of this moment, but you're going to continue to gather samples and you'll be able to isolate. suppose interpret what other lifestyle factors or what other environmental factors or work style factors may be impacting that range, whether it's uh what did you say, 40 to 59, or maybe it becomes earlier, or maybe it becomes later because we do start and continue to live longer. All of that's really, really fascinating. The other part that I want to talk a little bit about is when you now know your ovarian age, and let's just imagine that the fertility part is either something you've already, you've already experienced, you have children, but now you know your ovarian age is X, and therefore you might need to consider that your last period is going to be Y. Now we have planning tools to figure out what about managing our healthcare proactively because I know that the ovary itself, you've said, is so connected to these other systems. So once I know my ovarian age or I know when my last menstrual period is going to be, what else am I looking for in order to make sure that the other systems and organs in my body remain healthy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's definitely a good question. And the biggest part of what we built, right, is now what do I do? If there's one thing I learned in the longevity space, it's that you can't just tell people where they are and you can't just tell them what to do. You have to tell them where they are, then tell them what to do and then tell them where they are again. It's the only way to get them to a deer. And that's why actionability is a big part of this tool, which has never been the case historically with the ovary. We've always considered this an unmoving, ticking time bomb. We can't have any control over it, which is simply not the case. We have developed a lot of, we've looked retrospectively at data, we're going to be looking more prospectively at data to see how interventions are actually moving the needle, meaning potentially delaying menopause to promote female health span in the population. And there are things that you can do. It's just yeah it's just a question of what those things are. So like you mentioned the ovary is like a vital sign. It's well recognized as a vital sign in the space and such a big lever for health span. And with all of these incredibly health conscious women they'll now have a metric that they can use which is personalized to them. I like to call the ovary and the ovarian clock the missing piece of the puzzle. We have risk assessments for all these various conditions, right? We have risk assessments for cardiovascular disease. We have ways to look at prevention for Alzheimer's brain health bone health muscle health but the one thing that has always made these tools underperform for women is the fact that they haven't taken the ovary into account. So now that we have this information we're catching up in that health race of actually being able to look at a comprehensive view of our health. And there are things we can do for instance we've done a retrospective analysis on KSM 66 Ashwagandha it's a specific form um like a specific very absorbable form of ashwagandha. It's a complete nutraceutical not a therapeutic intervention and we found it actually had a pause on ovarian aging in a three month window. Really?
SPEAKER_01Yes really that's one of my favorite things like honestly I take that every single day and I I take it because they told me it would be good for just general stress management. That is a very interesting reading of that intervention.
SPEAKER_00Wow yes it was incredibly fascinating for us to see and that's of course at the 600 milligram dose of that supplement which is it and it had statistically significant effects. So that was incredibly impressive we're also looking retrospectively at hormone replacement therapy in the perimetopausal population and we find that actually has slowed ovarian aging as well in cohorts and pushed off the final menstrual period. So that's an incredibly interesting finding we're looking into looking at GLP1s in combination with hormone replacement therapy because they have such a prominent influence on ovarian like on inflammation which has such an important influence on the ovary and insulin sensitivity to things that are very tied to fertility and ovarian health so there are many different things we're looking at so we can get some specific interventions that move the needle on age of menopause and ovarian longevity traditional wealth management focuses on a few key moments your first house sending your kids to university when you retire and when you die will you have enough?
SPEAKER_01Will you die with too much or too little? These are questions of a very finite nature. Our approach goes above and beyond with the belief that wealth is not just money, but comes in at least four forms time, money, energy and attention and that wealth is a wave that you can learn to ride to a life well lived a life where you flourished where you surpassed the finite game of having enough to experiencing the infinite game of playing forever. Instead of just focusing on a few of life's moments we focus on all of the moments between the 1440 minutes of each day the energy to be harnessed from each and every sunrise every meal and every great night's sleep the power of connection and meaning that all four forms of wealth time, energy, money and attention can access. This is what it means to flourish. So the question is which wealth advisor is right for you? An advisor who helps you open the door to a few of life's moments or to all of them? Consider this. In the next 24 hours you have 1440 minutes and it takes just a few of them to contact me at grivers atasante.com. Doing so could be one of the best investment decisions you ever make you mentioned inflammation and that just seems like a really great topic if we could stay there for a second because there are so many known things that we can either ingest or expose ourselves to that increase inflammation. Are there lifestyle factors that you've started to test as having an impact on avarian aging or are you more at this stage focusing on on I don't even know what you'd call those things substances or supplements are are are you also looking at also external factors?
SPEAKER_00So we are looking at across the spectrum so our report also has a lot of lifestyle recommendations. I think everyone agrees it's a complete combination that's needed and lifestyle is the foundation of things. So obviously you have your therapeutics, your nutraceuticals and then you have these lifestyle recommendations. For instance, you have your standard ones stress, sleep right but are these now these improving sleep is that actually something you can do yourself or is your ovary and ovarian decline influencing your ability to get sleep? The first complaint that women have, which they don't know is the beginning of the perimetapausal transition, but it is, is getting one hour less of sleep because they can't stay asleep for that full period of time. Ah so it's the midnight waking up is it it's the waking up yes it's the waking up at midnight it's the waking up an hour earlier than you usually do and just not being able to go back to sleep. Like that early symptom is actually directly linked to a decline in melatonin. So early on in our lives yes melatonin starts to decline and this is what starts the cascade where FSH starts to increase and then that disrupts ovulation and you get the progesterone decline and the estrogen decline. So that melatonin yes so with the lifestyle recommendations the reason we're so careful is because in many cases you do sometimes need some help to amend some of those lifestyle factors like sleep and like stress like ashwagandha can help a lot with stress and sleep. Melatonin has great data for ovarian health even for inflammation reduction and for helping women sleep throughout the night. So there's a lot that we can do to help you meet these goals that you've probably been trying to meet yourself, but there's a lot going on on the inside that's hard to control.
SPEAKER_01So take us a little bit into the the actual structure of working with timeless biotech because we talked earlier about how your tests are now in clinics and it and it's being deployed across in your case I believe it's predominantly across the United States am I am I correct? Are there other countries that you're working in as well or predominantly United States? Just the United States for now. Just the United States for now but probably hoping to make it up to Canada at some point so that people like me can also experience what you're doing. But what does it look like for someone to engage with Timeless? Is it through their their family doctor? Are there clinics? Is this I don't even know in your country if it would be funded through public health care or is it something that you're purchasing separately? How does one engage with this kind of practice to be able to make this part of their team?
SPEAKER_00Yes so for our early partners we're partnered with some incredible physicians who have their independent practices so these concierge clinics and lots of them are incredibly focused on women's health some are just generally in primary care. We're also partnered with digital health platforms that are incredibly accessible like the one we're partnered with Evolve Telemedicine operates in all 50 states. They're actually making this into their routine panel and their routine testing because they agree with us this is a vital sign. It needs to be tracked. So there are definitely two great areas to gain access to the tool if we actually release the different concierge clinics we work with at this stage and the digital health, which can be you can go to them you can ask for the test if they're already testing routinely then it'll already be part of your panel. And we're also working on penetrating into traditional health care. So that's where you have the health systems eventually labs that would just layer this seamlessly on top of all women hormone tests. And the reason for that is because women's hormones are really difficult to interpret on their own. So we need a level of interpretation to actually be able to extract value from them. So that's why we openly say like yes we know that this is currently the gold standard in the space but we don't want it to stay the gold standard. It should be the new standard of care. And that's why once this test expands and catches, no one's gonna want a typical hormone test anymore. No one's gonna want to stare blankly at their hormone values with no idea what they mean.
SPEAKER_01With no idea what they mean 100%. Exactly they're going to want a way to tell me my ovarian age right I think that's what you're saying is the understanding your ovarian age is now the new standard that we want to be aiming for because once we know that then we can consider these other interventions in order to manage that hopefully later and later and later because a higher ovarian age equals a better operating system is what we're saying because we're avoiding that crazy volatile changeup in hormones that ultimately end up in the crater or whatever it is that happens. The way it's been explained to me, although I'm kind of in the middle of it myself is that it's a series of new normals are in the volatile part as you're going through it. It's just that it would be really nice to know and be able to understand what those new normals are in something other than a number that doesn't really mean much. But certainly knowing my ovarian age and being able to manage it would be sort of like me knowing my resting heart rate and being able to manage it. I do everything I can to keep my resting heart rate low. I do everything I can to keep my restorative sleep number high, but I have no idea how to manage these other aspects related to my hormone health. So you now you mentioned earlier that you said I think it was one of the ways in which you can extend your ovarian age was actually early use of HRT, like during perimenopause or tell me a little bit more about that because that seems to be a topic that we just don't have enough language around as far as when to talk to a doctor about HRT. But it sounds like you have a really great application for challenging it before menopause and asking for for use early.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely so that is one of the use cases for the tool for sure which is knowing when should a woman be looking at least starting the conversation for menopausal hormone therapy HRT. And one thing I want to definitely state is the literature is quite clear that timely use of hormone therapy in which is actually technically supposed to be right before right before symptoms start. So timely use of hormone therapy is very good for reducing all cause mortality in women and reducing your likelihood of a cardiovascular event. So cardiovascular disease is the number one killer of women and that risk really spikes during that menopausal transition. So catching this on time starting hormone therapy ideally right before symptoms start, we'll get to how you can identify right before symptoms start clinically is ideally what's going to protect your heart, protect your brain, protect your bones, protect your muscle the most I like to reference the specific study that was done that actually found that a woman's biological age accelerates nearly 10 years, nearly 10 years in the first six months following menopause. Wow yes and completely preventable with estrogen therapy.
SPEAKER_01Wow it's hard not to know or sorry I should say it's hard it's hard to know what part of the markers that I do follow and and again this is just experience anecdotal Jillian talking here but I imagine it's the same way for a lot of ladies it's hard to know which points to follow because if my resting heart rate does start to creep up over a period of six to eight months and my maybe I do start realizing I'm actually sleeping seven and a half hours now instead of eight and a half hours, all of that just feels like like the frog in the boiling water, right? Like it it's such a slow, insidious creep that you have no idea that something material is happening. So I guess if I were to have access to a timeless protocol, how frequently would I be testing my biomarkers to try and understand what is a material difference in that information versus what is just Jillian having a rough year? Because sometimes it could just feel like work stress and you you just chalk it up to life instead of to my body. How frequently does testing have to happen for it to be helpful?
SPEAKER_00Yes. So you can take one test and it'll actually be able to give you a trajectory. So that's the real value of this test is it's not just telling you if you're within certain thresholds right now. We actually do things that are way more complicated than thresholding because that's not very valuable with female hormones because of what we discussed earlier. It's really looking at the full picture of these hormone values and the self-report information to tell you when you actually can expect menopause to happen. So you can take that test in your 30s or like early 30s, late 30s and get a sense over and then you can come back annually and start to test to see how the needle might be moving. So now it's about actually taking control of that value and trying to influence it. But yes as you get closer and closer to that actual date that final menstrual period you can actually start testing more frequently because you might be on more intense interventions that you want to see like you want to identify are these working or hey I've I've gone I've started working with this new gym and I'm doing a lot more high intensity interval training and I feel like I missed a couple of I want to see if it's pushed by ovarian age yeah.
SPEAKER_01Exactly or has it has it actually done had the opposite effect because I've missed some periods right in Uh-huh right what is the cause of this yes yes so then earlier you'd mentioned that the goal is to give you a precise timing of your last menstrual cycle how far in advance are you able to tell that because you said well we want to start you early so that we can give you a trajectory but if I were 30 years old you wouldn't be able to tell me now would you or would you you would be able to tell me now but I'd have an opportunity of like 20 years to be able to fix it. Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_00Exactly so we'd tell it to you now the same way when we test your cholesterol that doesn't mean that's going to be your cholesterol at 50 right it just means that you now have the ability to take control of this value and know what's actually driving your ovarian aging we have a full section of the report dedicated to the model telling you what it used to produce your prediction what actually drove your prediction so that you know what to focus on and what you should genuinely stop or start in order to move the needle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah that's incredibly empowering and I really am so grateful for this talk today because I think I had so many still preconceived notions about what I think you called thresholding, which was you know, where are you at with no real helpful information about where you're going. Instead, you're really giving people an opportunity in advance to decide where to invest valuable resources to manage something far in advance. Like hey guess what your house is going to burn down seven years from now. You have an opportunity to fireproof it how would you like to consider investing a little bit of your time energy money or attention in fireproofing your house? So I think that's remarkable. Now in the the people that you've worked with I know you mentioned at first there was something a lady that you mentioned who was like you're your patient one, but I'm sure you've had many other patients since then what have been some of the really remarkable stories of change that have come out of knowing this information in advance and and maybe how did they run with it in a way that was so empowering for you and and what it is that you want to do.
SPEAKER_00So we recently launched so we're really excited for that data to come in. So when we have that yes then we'll be able to see which direction people were able to move based on interventions. It's incredibly exciting because this is actually going to be the first ever interventional data in the space on menopause delay. And the reason it's the first ever data is because we've developed the first surrogate endpoint for the space. So surrogate endpoint basically tells us that you can test the same person and then retest them and tell them if they've made a difference on their menopausal age. You're not observing based on two different parties that's not as valuable data in clinic. So definitely really excited for that to come out and we're already doing some like extensive modeling to demonstrate how capturing this point in time the stitch in time with ovarian aging and focusing on the ovary has incredible downstream effects on all the other elements of female health including the leading killers and cross driver like cost drivers in the nation and globally so that is really it really amplifies how when because we have accessibility to things like hormone therapy and because we can actually start to move the needle on this vital sign, we are able to really efficiently tackle multiple different conditions where we usually don't have a drug or a therapeutic like hormone therapy that would possibly be able to do all of those things. It has to like that is the most potent large drug we have.
SPEAKER_01That is really cool and it also points to this last little transition I want to shift towards you're not only an incredibly impressive scientist and engineer, but you're also a business person, right? You have started something, you have built something and so now switching gears from female cycles to let's call it sales cycles, you've had to really think about how to position what it is you've built, not only to solve problems, but also to generate a profit and remain viable otherwise all of this science was for nothing. So now working within systems where let's say the sales cycle is a six to 12 month sales cycle, knowing that you've got this incredible machine working for you, what does it take to earn trust in that environment? What have you learned as a business person trying to do science for humanity at scale?
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, absolutely. So I am a big, big believer of machine learning and healthcare as a whole that's what I'm betting on right now. That's what everyone in the in Timeless biotech is betting on right now. And the reason for that is healthcare has clearly faced issues and the reason why many businesses have difficulty or don't even attempt to deliver things into traditional healthcare is because they believe that healthcare is too slow to adopt or doesn't ultimately make decisions that will add any friction into their workflows. So we heard that and quite simply thought that what if we made them a solution that didn't add any friction into their workflows and made their lives significantly easier? There would be no reason for them not to adopt us. So that's why when we say that timeless biotech is delivering AI-powered biomarkers into traditional healthcare, we're genuinely focused on creating these low-lift, seamless integration software tools that are analyzing blood work physicians are already doing to answer questions that they haven't been able to answer for their patients. So you're saving them that time. Yes, instead of sending a woman to another specialist because of all the symptoms that she's having that are associated with parametric, instead of women flooding the ER because they're having heart palpitations and they think they're having a heart attack, or instead of women getting given antidepressants and then coming back because the problem's not solved, because they actually need hormone replacement therapy. All of these different levels of waste that, unfortunately, that's the term that's used, waste that are happening in the health system where neither the patient is benefiting nor the provider can be fixed with something that won't take them any time at all.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. Oh my gosh. And and so not disruptive, right? Like a lot of times when we think of tech, we think of disruption. We think of something that's actually trying to break the thing that it is being born into. And instead, you're trying to work with the thing that you're trying to birth this beautiful entity into. And I have to ask about this question too. I understand you've built an all-woman team to do this. Did that happen naturally and organically? Does that speak to the way in which you're trying to enter the marketplace? Like there's so many great parallels here with who you are and how you're operating. Tell me a little bit more about your team.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, absolutely. Um, yes, that did happen organically. It just so turns out that when you build something like this that is transformative for women's health, and you tell people who've been in the healthcare space for 25 years and have brought products to market and know how to bring in a bit of products to market and scaled businesses to like 50 million in revenue, that you happen to catch the attention of women in that space who are going through these transitions and know how elegant a solution this is. So it just naturally happened that the people who are most compelled by this problem, by what we're building, are the people who know the space like the back of their hand, are extremely experienced executives, female executives in health tech, who also are, like I said, women. So they know, they know the problem from both ends of the table. They they can use it and they can sell it. So that's how we ended up building this incredible team, both on the technical side and on the sales side, that just really are passionate and driven, but also know exactly how to communicate to health systems because they know that money talks. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Wow. I'm so excited. You guys are a group of powerhouse women. And for such a long time, we've all been asked to plan our lives without any of this being visible to us and without any kind of way of integrating knowledge of it into the system so it could help us. What you're building is just an incredible, life-changing opportunity for literally half the world. So thank you very much for that. I have one final question that I ask of everybody on the podcast this season, and it has to do with AI. And you know, you might have something to say about AI since it is really at the heart of a lot of what you do. But I'm curious, as a look forward now, I know you're using it on a day-to-day basis in your business, and it's obviously a huge part of how it is you're able to operate at the scale that you do. But looking ahead, what's another powerful or meaningful way that you can imagine using AI, either to maybe escalate the impact or create more impact or clarity for the people that you want to serve?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think there are multiple different applications of AI and machine learning in health tech and in the space, and I think they're not. I don't think there's a bubble in AI and health tech. I'll say that uh quite clearly. I think there's definitely a bubble in horizontal applications of AI. We see a lot of businesses popping up in that space, but no one has even started to scratch the surface with the kind of things we can do with AI interpretation in the space, and that's what we're really betting on. That being said, this interpretation and analytics has given us so much insight into what's really driving ovarian aging and what really is at the crux of it. And the next step there is then to use these tools to identify different therapeutics and interventions and molecules that can really make a whole difference. So, actual AI for drug development focused on the space and where we're actually leveraging AI interpretation that feeds into this AI drug discovery and AI molecule identification. So that's definitely something I think we are very interested in as well.
SPEAKER_01I am very excited to watch you tackle that moonshot. I've been calling these things lately when people bring them up. That is a fantastic moonshot that you'll be aiming. And I have no doubt you will land it. It's so exciting. Huge props and massive gratitude to you for the work that you've done and you continue to do because if we could see all the things that you're talking about, it will just give women and their partners and allies, right? A lot more intelligent data upon which to base their lives and how it is to invest in order to extend their longevity and their health span. So thank you very much. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I hope you have the most amazing day.
SPEAKER_00Thanks so much, Gillian. Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Join me next week on the Flourish Feed Podcast to keep exploring the infinite game. In the meantime, remember to stay curious, turn your passions into purpose, and play hard. I'm rooting for you. This program was prepared by Gillian Stovell Rivers, who was a senior wealth advisor with CI Asante Wealth Management. This is not an official program of CI Asante Wealth Management, and the statements and opinions expressed during this podcast do not necessarily reflect those of CI Asante Wealth Management. This show is intended for general information only and may not apply to all listeners or investors. Please obtain professional financial advice or contact Gillian to discuss your particular circumstances prior to acting on the information presented.