We got a code brown. Welcome to Bedpan Banter. With me, Nurse Mike, the Dead of Nurser. Can I get a Bedpan over here? Welcome to Bedpan Banter, the official podcast of Simple Nursing, where we chat all about the human side of healthcare. I'm your host, Nurse Mike, and today we're joined by two incredible nurses, Christine and Monica, both RNs and union representatives with National Nurses United. Now, before we dive into your efforts to unionize at Ascension Seton Medical Center in Texas, we're going to start with the educational side of unions, especially for our nursing students who are listening. Because in nursing school, we don't really hear a lot about unions. So in today's episode, we're going to be diving into what unions are, how they work, and why they really matter at bedside. So again, nursing students are not familiar with unions mostly because we don't hear a lot about that in nursing
school. So, Christine, can you explain in simple terms what a union actually is, how it helps nurses?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for us in Austin, you know, we really came together and really realized that nursing is a group of workers that come together. We want to improve our workplace conditions. We want to make sure our patients are safe, nurses are safe, staffing is fair. Really, everything that every nurse around the country thinks of as a challenge in their workplace, we want to improve. It's for us an avenue to really all come together. And we we we are the ones that see our patients at the bedside. We want to have a voice in that patient care. So having a union allows us to work with leadership to make sure that we're collaborating and keeping everyone safe.
SPEAKER_00I love that. So the biggest thing that I'm hearing is safety and I guess safe work environments, safe for the patient as well as the nurses.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's a goal for us to, we're really big in Austin on recruiting new nurses. That is equally as valid valuable as retaining new nurses as well. So we want to do both. We want to keep nurses at the bedside and we want them to have a good experience so that they put that into the care that they give their patients every day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. And I talk to nursing uh or new grads a lot, and I'm like, man, a big thing is retention. And uh some hospitals, it's it's really hard for them to retain staff at bedside. And I think a lot because of nursing burnout or you know, unsafe patient ratios. Um and I is is that one of the main ways that uh that unions really help nurses with the ratios as well?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, we've really come to find um, we use a term called moral injury rather than nurse burnout. Um, we really feel like moral injury really rains true trust a little bit better because what has happened or what we have seen across the country, for me specifically from the pandemic is really where I've seen it. Um, coming out of the pandemic, we were given less and taught or wanted to do more. They wanted us to do more with less than what we had. So, moral injury is like an injury to ourselves as nurses because we're not given the tools that we need to flourish at the bedside. And having a union has really allowed us to use our voice and make sure that that is possible at our hospital.
All right, Monica, for our listeners who may be unfamiliar with unions, how do nurses become part of your union? And can you explain the process?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sure. So um for nurses that actually have a union in their facility already, the process is easy. You sign a union card or your membership card. Um, and I cannot express enough how important it is to join your union. Um, like Christine had previously said, like they're they're there to protect you. And so signing your union card or membership form, depending on your state, um, you may not even have to do that because um you are a part of the union automatically. But for us in Texas, we are um a right-to-work state, and so you have to go and fill that form out yourself. You're not gonna be automatically in the union if your union, excuse me, if your facility has a union already.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. Um so you're not automatically inducted. That's interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Correct. So our hospital likes to tell our new grads or our new hires, oh, you're you're part of the union, and they are under the impression that they are members when they're hired, and that dissuades them from signing a membership form because they think that they're already members. Um, and we have to tell them you have the union here in the hospital. We are there to protect you, but unless you actively sign up a membership form, you are not a member. Um you're a part of our bargaining unit, but you actually have to want to serve and be a member. And the process of becoming a union in Texas, I mean, it starts out simple. You speak to each other, you have these conversations one-on-one with your coworkers about issues that you have in the hospital. For us, when we first started, was a lot of it was um patient safety. Um we were our ratios were uh horrendous, particularly in the ICU. Um we were, like Christine said, asked to be do a lot more with a lot less. Um and for these reasons we decided to contact N and U. We actually had several uh two nurses from different fist from different units uh contact N and U at the same time. Um and we were able to I actually described it to somebody this weekend as like tentacles, like you you speak to folks and then you they speak to other people who they know, and before you know it, you're all on common ground because you're not just alone in your unit with these issues, you realize that it's nurses across the hospital and realistically across the country that have these same issues, and so when you form the union, it's not just one person having these issues or one unit, it's us as a collective, and collectively we are able to push back and gain worker and patient protections.
SPEAKER_00I love that, and it's I think it's so vitally needed for new grads as well to be educated about this because you know, new grads are walking into a hospital system, not being familiar, especially with their job, as well as you know, they don't know when or when they're not being taken advantage of. They might just be thinking that it's like, you know, status quo. So are are there any practical ways that uh you guys educate new grads or or anyone, any new hires that are unfamiliar with with unions to join the union?
SPEAKER_02So one of the things that we won in our contract um was education time. And Christine, as our chief nursery in the hospital, is one of the nurses that um goes to these meetings during orientation with the new grads or the new hires, and they do education on uh the history of our union um membership, the importance of joining. Uh, Christine could probably tell you a lot more because I've only done those meetings once or twice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I'll I'll take some of it. Um yeah, having that time and education to educate new nurses about, you know, where where we've been, where we want to go, um, what we look for in, you know, our next contract and how we want to work to change things is really a space for us to get the correct education out to people. Um, we want to make sure that, you know, we have a space for people to ask questions, to feel comfortable doing that. Um, that really allows us to talk with the new nurses, but also on our units. Like a lot of us are, a lot of our main leaders are preceptors and we, you know, teach new grads. And I really, you know, can agree with you what with what you said about nursing students are coming in. They don't know our unit. They don't know, you know, why we are fighting for some of the things we're fighting for and when they're being allied to or taken advantage of. And it's really important to all kind of build a space where we can trust each other. And I think meeting people where they're at is also something really important when it comes to new grads and you know, joining a union. Um, it's easy for us who have been in nursing for you know, five plus years or whatever that looks like to be like staffing is horrible, but it's not easy for a new nurse and a student nurse to see that coming in. So I think there are ways to take the education that they're getting that I once got and really see that it has changed and to really, you know, have put some safety around the space and their education so that they feel comfortable in the way that they're getting that education, to speak up. Do you need more? Do you need something else that is more specific to you that you need more training on? Like what does that look like? And I think, you know, meeting people where they're at and putting it in that spotlight is really a way to kind of grasp the new nurses because they're they are really important to us in the hospital system in general.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course.
And I mean, speaking about uh new nurses and new grads, a question for both of you guys is do nursing schools do an adequate job or do they do it at all? Um educating about unions?
SPEAKER_01For me, no. Um I've never heard, I never heard the word union. I'm originally from Minnesota, so I moved to Austin um in 2011. So I've been here for a while. Um, but unions are very common in the Midwest, and I still never heard it. Um, the South is notorious for having the right to work states, and that is a challenge for unions. It is designed when it comes to workers' rights and those things to weaken unions. So um it is has been historically one of the areas in the country that is hard to band together and really um makes make something big. But for me, you know, our nursing license is something that we're we're proud of and we have to protect. And especially as new nurses, I don't think as a new nurse I really took that to heart or really thought about that. But going through our bargaining and our unionizing journey and all of the escalations that we did, um, I know now more than ever that my employer is not going to protect my license. I'm the only one that can do that. And it's given us so much security, job security in what our license brings to our day-to-day lives as nurses. And we're really able to advocate for our workplace and conditions that will protect our license. So I wish, and now knowing a lot about unions, I wish that I was taught more about that because I think being your biggest advocate is what keeps nurses at the bedside and keeps our patients safe. And I think it's such an honor to be able to have my voice heard and stand next to my colleagues who also want to voice their concerns as
well.
SPEAKER_00I love that. What are some practical uh challenges that that unions help to overcome? Because I think a lot of our listeners listening to this may maybe are barely going to the hospital, um, and they they're not they're not familiar with unsafe patient ratios, um, or maybe getting their getting their breaks on time. Uh, what are some practical ways, or I guess what have unions helped to overcome? Uh, just as some examples specifically.
SPEAKER_02Practical issues that our union has helped address. Um what I feel is a big win for us is um although there are unions in the state of Texas outside of Austin, uh we were the first ones to get ratios in our contract. Um and it may not be like California ratios, but it's somewhere for us to build off of. And I'm I'm proud to have that. And we can take take the protections that we have in our CBA or collective bargaining agreement and hold management accountable to the contract that they agree to. Um if nurses aren't getting lunch breaks, um, we are in the process of working on um a lunch break program so that nurses can take an uninterrupted lunch break. Um one of the huge wins for us, um at least in our facility, um, this past uh this past year, uh Ascension um got rid of the supervisor role for uh across the local ascensions, and ours was the last to do that because they had a bargain with us. They could not dissolve that role completely without negotiating with the nurses, and we were able to negotiate for those nurses not to get pay cuts, uh, where the nurses in all the other ascension facilities wound up getting approximately anywhere from $10 to $15 pay cut. And so those are practical protections that we have in our contract. Um and we use it every day. I tell our new our new grads or our new our new members, this is your contract, read it, understand it. If you have questions, come to us because like this is how we're going to to hold them accountable, but also they are not going to voluntarily do what's in the contract. So we need to be holding their feet to the fire. They especially like with our ratios, they they've been um going over ratios in some units, and we are doing our assignment spite objection forms and uh documenting everything so that we can keep our patients safe and and as Christine said, protect our license, which is something that many people worked, well, excuse me, that we all worked many years to obtain.
SPEAKER_00And and it's funny, is speaking to new grads right now, it's like you now you have a license to maintain, but you also have to be safe, you know, uh in order to do that for your for your patients and be safe for yourself. So the big thing I'm hearing about is safety and advocacy. Uh, because the last thing we want is these huge healthcare corporations to be taken advantage of us, which doesn't deliver good safe patient outcomes, right? Um no.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think Oh, go ahead. I was gonna say, I think you said it good with like um, like we talked about earlier, having like feeling like you can stand up for yourself and it's not a confrontation that we're having. I love my manager and I, you know, will bring things to her attention. It's not to have a conver like a confrontation with her, but I think it's hard coming into big organizations and feeling like you are valued and you matter. So in uh you get lost in these big companies. And I think it's important to remember that we are our own people, it's our license. You know, hospitals would not run without nurses at the bedside. And you you need to, as new nurses, really feel comfortable saying, this is not right. I don't feel safe. And having that advocacy has just been um life-changing for us and to be able to give to our new nurses that come into our hospital to feel like they have a space to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
Now, we don't really hear about it a lot, other than like a lot in social media, but strikes are often the last resort. Uh, can you explain what a strike is and how these are actually organized?
SPEAKER_02So um a strike is a work stoppage. Um it can be known as a sick out or a slowdown. Um but they don't just happen overnight. Uh, strike is something that is a decision made by the entirety of the union membership. So it's not just the bargaining team or the professional practice committee that decides one day, you know what, this sucks, we're going on strike. Um, it is a bargaining tool that we use um as a last resort. We um, as Christine says, that we have actions in the hospital. Um increasing actions and the strike, again, last resort. We um we put it to our nurses hey, this is where we're at, this is where we're at with our negotiations, this is where the hospital is. Um, they're not meeting us, they're not moving. We want to have this card on the table. Do you want to do this? And we had a vote. And when we had our vote, we had um a it was a supermajority of the nurses said that they wanted to strike. And so right. And then um what happens is when we decide to strike, um, we uh we have to give the hospital notice. We give them a 10-day notice. So it's not like oh, we voted on it, we're striking tomorrow. We have to give the hospital notice and it it allows them to um divert patients to other locations, it allows them to stop elective surgeries, but the main thing is that it gives them a time period, 10-day notice, that gives you 10 days, come to the table and bargain a fair contract with the nurses. That is the ultimate goal, is a fair and uh adequate bargain with the nurses. And if they don't, then we do uh go on strike. Um, and there's protections for the patients because a lot of folks are scared like what's gonna happen to the patients, but we actually within and you there is a team that should something critical happen and the the strike nurses are working, they can't handle it. They call in the team and the team comes and helps and then comes back out. So, like it's not we're not abandoning anybody. We have given the hospital Apple opportunity to move these patients, but then we still have to hold a line. We still have to we have a drawn a line in the sand and this is where we're standing. We uh I think I used it once in one of our social media posts we stand ten toes down and we stand firm so that they know like this is where we're at, and they have an option to negotiate a contract with us.
SPEAKER_00Is every nurse in the hospital do they strike or is there only certain departments that do the strike?
SPEAKER_02Obviously, there's going to be nurses that don't, um, but a majority of our nurses do come out and they strike. So it's from every department. I think one of the most telling things was some of the smaller departments who are are vital, um, like our surgery departments um or our specialized surgery departments. So last time we did have to have a strike, they they walked out, the hospital wasn't expecting it. And so those delays um is kind of what helps move because they don't expect everybody to go, and when you do, that that's that's where it hits them the most.
SPEAKER_00And just like you said, ten toes down, you know. Um okay, so now that we have the basics, um, let's bring it to life with some real world experiences.
Uh so Christina and Monica, can you tell us what led nurses at Ascension in Texas to start organizing? What was that critical point?
SPEAKER_01That's Monica. I'll go first.
SPEAKER_00All right, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say for me, but um I'm assuming it was um the timing for a lot of people. Uh, like I mentioned, the pandemic was something that we all experienced in a lot of different ways, but a lot of very similar ways. And we can all relate to that. And I think in moments of need that was at that time, you know, we really saw the destruction that was happening at our bedside. And it's our job as nurses to protect our patients and give them what they deserve. And when we are not given the tools to do that, that was our time to stand up and start assessing does everyone feel the same way? And should we take this move? And is this the right step? And that was kind of the catalyst to coming together and reaching out to really make this something at our hospital. And I feel like all of the changes that we went through have been nothing short of everything that we needed and being able to be the people that can do what nursing was designed to do. Um we have been told a lot that in Texas, I believe there's about a million, don't quote me on the number, but there's many nurses that have a nursing license that aren't working at the bedside. And That is also a big realization of why aren't they doing that? And I just think for a lot of us coming out of the pandemic, it was exacerbated. And it was the time that a lot of people felt defeat from their workplace and what we're being given. And it was the right move for us.
SPEAKER_00How did oh, did you want to chime in, uh, Monica? Because I have another question.
SPEAKER_02Uh as I stated earlier, uh, what started it, obviously, yes, the pandemic, but we had nurses from ICU and I believe labor and delivery contact our uh our union, National Nurses United, um, and uh we started growing from there. Uh huh nurse retention, uh, as we said, is a huge issue. So, yes, please give us the new grads we want them, but we also need to retain our older nurses, our more experienced nurses, because if we don't, if we don't, who's going to be training those new grad nurses? So that was a big that was a huge issue because we're having uh our uh seasoned nurses leaving and the ones that were training our new grads were new grads. And so, like, you don't know what you don't know, and that puts our patients in a dangerous situation. So retention is was a huge issue for us.
SPEAKER_00Can you guys describe um maybe a moment you realized like we need to speak up? Like um, you know, the boiling point got too hot, and now it's it's time, you know?
SPEAKER_01For me, I work in women's services. So, you know, we are like locked in our little bubble. And so it's nice to really collaborate with the whole hospital and see a lot of people um outside of our locked units. But for us, it was really staffing on our labor and delivery units that have been horrible over the last few years. And we really decided at some point that we were gonna come together and make sure that our voices were heard from our director, our CNO on what staffing looks like. We are building a new women's tower that is opening in a few months that has more beds, more ample opportunity for staff, but we're not, we don't feel like they're doing enough for the hiring process. So we came together, we did, we've done petitions on like safe staffing, that everybody on the units comes together and signs, we deliver that to our CNO. We've had several meetings about that with the manager and director. And so for women's services, that was really big for us to be able to say, you know, we need staff and to see that get put into play. Um, as far as where we can put ancillary staff or where help can come from. Um, and we have seen a few changes in that as far as getting more help in our triage areas, getting more help on the floors to make sure that our ratios stay consistent. Um, I don't know if you have anything else, Monica, but I know that's very specific to perinatal, but so I don't think there was a singular moment for me myself, um, that was the light bulb moment.
SPEAKER_02Um I just saw a need and filled it. So, like we one of the issues was not having equipment or supplies. Um I work on a med surge unit and obviously we're gonna have critical or elderly patients, um, or incontinent patients, and when you run out of linens and you don't have you don't have fitted sheets to put your patients on, or you don't have chucks, like that's a problem. And though that I think is what kind of like put a fire fire under me because like you don't expect that to be in a huge metropolitan hospital. Like you you want bed sheets on your bed. Um they can't exactly like you can't you can't expect us to you know keep our patients clean and dry if there's nothing to clean and dry them with. And so those were that's a that was a huge it point for me not having the supplies that we needed. And that's actually one of the first things that I feel like got addressed um was having enough linens. Um and that's something that we can do through our union is be like, maybe you should, you know, order more l linens more often, or maybe if you're not getting linens in a timely manner, maybe you should be getting them from a different company. So, like those are things that we can push towards.
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, because it's like, how does how does a nurse, especially new grad, go into the the hospital system that they just got hired into? They're fresh as a nurse, and it's like I don't have the utensils to do my job, like basic sheets, linens. I mean, what if they didn't have like, you know, um other materials like a fully catheter or or something like that to be able to do their job? New grad nurses or seasoned nurses may feel like it's a moral decision, not just a career one. So I'd love to talk about that and get your guys' thoughts.
Um, joining a union um is a personal decision, and I encourage nurses to take time to think about it before they make their decision. Um, we provide our nurses with a union 101 book and history of the union um so that they know like it's this not something that just we started yesterday. This has been going on for over a hundred years. Um different job sites, different professions all over the country, all over the world have unions, have sindicatos that help them with your job protections. And I feel like nurses are entitled to those same protections. And so um it's not a political decision. I know some folks are like, well, you know, I'm this is my political affiliation or this is where I'm at, and it's it's not about that, it's about you know making sure our patients are safe and making sure we protect our license, we can um advocate for each other safely, and so um, yes, take the time to make that decision, but also think about the impact that your decision could make. Um, you could be the one to protect your license by filling out an assignment despite objection form because if you don't look and something comes back, the hospital is not there to protect you, they're there to protect the hospital. HR is not interested in protecting you, they're going to protect the name Ascension or they're gonna protect the name HCA, they're going to protect their own interests, and uh we don't want nurses to be thrown under the bus. We want them to be able to protect themselves, and that's uh an opportunity that uh we're afforded through our union.
SPEAKER_00It's it's all about collaboration because as nurses, you know, we're we're just a team. We're only as good as us collectively. Um and I always say it's a team sport. And if it's not just for you, it's for the person working next to you that may or may not be in the union, right? Um so it's definitely supports everyone, I I believe. Uh so specifically at NNU, can you guys speak to the resources available that um that nurses utilize on the day-to-day?
SPEAKER_01For us, you know, with NNU, we I don't think most people know that there are a lot of um options as far as like unionizing and who's gonna support you and national NNU, National Nurses United. Um, one thing that I love about them is they are a national union. Um, that is so important because I feel like it's important for us in Austin, with being you know the only major hospital that's unionized, to really also understand that yes, it is about our hospital, but it's also about nursing as a whole. It's about nursing as a practice. Like we want to change the way that nursing is functioning as a whole. And we want everyone to be able to have the things that we have and have the voice that we have. And unfortunately, without unions, a lot of people don't. So their support, all the resources that they gave us, um, especially during our bargaining, you know, we're baby union nurses. So, you know, I think it's important for people to understand that our union is us. It is me, it's Monica, it's the nurses at the bedside that work with us. Um, it's not a third party that just comes in and tells us what to do. So their support has been the biggest thing. Um, the tools that they have in their toolkit have been essential. They've you know established a lot of amazing unions in amazing hospitals. So they do have the rapport and the strong network of nurses. And that become becomes really important because we will go and do things with California nurses and nurses in North Carolina that are part of the same union. So it's not just, you know, our brothers and sisters in our hospital, it's across the country. And, you know, being able to have someone to go to to navigate different workplace situations and you know, have those resources for strikes. There are legal, you know, things that need to be followed when going on strike. And we don't know that, you know, that's not our expertise. So having that support from them, um, I could ramble on all day, but I think the biggest thing is support. Like I really think it is. They offer so much, but support and you know, all the tools that they have have just given us what we need to hit the ground running and take it because we really are the ones that make the decisions and decide how we want to escalate, decide what we think is important. And I think that's also something that most new nurses and students, you know, going into nursing don't realize that it is what we make it. And what we find's in what we find is important is what we move forward, despite, you know, having the backbone of, you know, a great system like NNU.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and what I'm hearing for students listening, it's not about being loud or confrontational. Uh it's about knowing that support system. Because as anyone new to nursing, they're gonna quickly understand that we're only as good as the nurses around us and we have to stick together. So that's great.
So before we wrap up, um, what advice would you give any nursing student about advocacy and unions? If there's any things we didn't mention before or maybe want to reiterate?
SPEAKER_02I would definitely like to tell nurses um to know your rights. Um know your hospital policies. Um but definitely know your rights. Like any nurse, you you need to know your nurse practice act. What you're allowed to do, because the hospital may tell you to do something like, well, that's that's not I'm not allowed to do that. So know your policy and know your nurse practice act, but also know your your legal rights. Um and I have the NLRB app on my phone, a National Labor Relations Board app, and it's gonna have your our labor laws and our rights to speak to each other, our rights to speak about union, to speak about your wages. Because a lot of hospitals like, well, you can't you can't talk about your your wages, and that is how they keep wages down by not allowing folks to talk to each other. So talk, talk about it. They don't want you to, so do it. Um they can't do anything to you. They're like, oh, you'll get a write-up or you'll get fired. No, you won't. It's your legal right. So be sure to have your NLRB information so that you know what your rights are. It's a group effort, and there's lots of people out there that want to help you. Not just, you know, your fellow nurses in your hospital, but uh the community support for union, um, even though you don't think it's out there, it's out there, and the community is your biggest cheerleader.
SPEAKER_01I want to piggyback off of that because I had two things and then I developed a another one, so now I have three. But I think um, into addition of what Monica said, like observing and learning, I think is also really important for new nurses coming in to understand. Yes, you don't know the workplace, you don't know the ratios, like how your team functions. So it is okay to observe and learn, but I think it's really good to have an open mind of what a union is and what the nurses are fighting for, to be able to look for those opportunities to remember if you're in an unsafe situation that you can advocate for yourself and do those things. I don't think it's instinctive for a lot of people in the moment to think something's unsafe and immediately want to advocate for themselves. I think that's a personality trait of some people. Um, but I think it can really be instilled in everybody to just recognize that you have a voice and when you want to use that, you can. Um, I always like to say, you know, um, like you mentioned, advocacy is a team sport. We never do anything alone. If I go into a meeting, I'm always have someone with me. If I'm delivering a petition, I always have someone with me. And if I'm thinking that something is unsafe, I guarantee you someone else is thinking the same thing. And if we all don't speak up about things that are unsafe or that we see and that need to be changed, um, the next person's not going to speak up. If everyone has that mentality, then nothing happens. So it's just really important to be that person to voice it because you're not the only one, probably, that thinks it. So just having an open mind going into nursing and realizing that we're working for a big profession and a big corporation, but we're still people and we still matter when we go to the bedside. And we matter more than any big corporation is gonna want to let on. So just remember like the value that you have at the bedside and the value of that license and really use that to make the best of your career and make it safe and make it what nursing is designed to be, and I think what was taken away from a lot of us in a lot of situations in the pandemic for me. Um, I always remember why, like, why I'm doing it and what I want to see in the end for me, for my fellow nurses, and for every nurse in the country.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I just hear so much about teamwork and collaboration, uh, even small action items for every nursing student that's listening or new grad. It's like, you know, you don't have to do it alone. We we are here as a group. Uh I call it the nurse mafia or the nurse crew, because you know, we got to stick together. Yeah. And all we're trying to do is build advocacy and safer working environments for ourselves as well as our patients. Um, it's gonna last the entire career. So I love this. Uh, Christine, Monica, thank you guys so much for being on the show. I really, really do appreciate it. Um, there's a lot of new grads out there and nursing students that have no clue what unions were um and how they operated. So thank you so much for uh enlightening us.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you for having us. Yes, thank you so much
for having us.
SPEAKER_00I hope this episode helps every single nursing student understand uh their rights and how to advocate safely and improve patient care. And remember, at Simple Nursing, strong nurses means safer patients. And education doesn't always stop at the end clicks. It includes knowing your voice, like we talked about today, uh, your rights, and your power at the bedside. So, for anyone listening uh who wants to know more or learn more about nurse advocacy organizing or National Nurses United, uh, we'll have resources linked in the description. And as always, thank you guys so much for tuning in to Bedpan Banter. And remember, don't let the Bedpans bite. We'll see you guys in the next episode.