Season 1 Episode 8: Meditation and Spirituality

In this episode of The Living Consciously Podcast, Mihaela and Rajesh dive into a modern dilemma: The Spiritual Supermarket. With an endless array of meditation techniques and "life-changing" retreats available, how do you find the one that actually balances your unique nervous system?

Mihaela shares her honest exhaustion after years of searching and asks the question we’re all thinking: How do I stop seeking and start seeing real results?

Key Takeaways from this Episode:

• The "Supermarket" Trap: Why more choices often lead to more restlessness.
• Know Your Nature: How your physical and mental constitution (Vata vs. Kapha) dictates your ideal practice.
• Digging One Well: The power of commitment over constant "trial and error."
• The 3 Pillars of Growth: Cultivating Awareness, Opening the Heart, and Developing Wisdom.

Stop collecting "seeker" badges and start establishing yourself in a practice that is integrated, grounded, and real.

✨ Deepen Your Practice

If this conversation resonated with you, join our upcoming live sessions:

• The Masterclass: Finding Your Practice: A Guide to Spiritual Discernment
• The Meditation Satsang: Settling In: The Power of a Consistent Path

Connect with Mindfulness and Beyond:

• Follow us on Instagram: @MindfulnessAndBeyond
• Visit our Website: mindfulnessandbeyond.org

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a 5-star review! It helps other seekers find the path.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to the podcast Living Consciously. I'm Mihilana della Periano and together with Rajesh Ramani, we are going to have a open discussion, nothing planned so far, about meditation. For those of you listening to this podcast, I'm sure that you have tried many techniques and you have worked with many teachers. And if not, you might want to work with many teachers or to identify some techniques of balancing yourself, your nervous system. So we will cover today, together with Rajesh, this topic of how we discover what type of meditation or practice will balance ourselves. How do we get to that point? Because in what we talked yesterday evening, the two of us is that I'm sick and tired of looking for the meditation that will balance me, the practice that will um ground me. And we talked about the fact that I was attending uh Joe Dispensa retreats, uh that I did uh with Sadhguru Shambhavi Mahamud Rakriya, the Teta Healing Reiki, you know, everything on this planet, breathing techniques and so on. You know, it's I didn't establish myself in one thing, and I cannot tell you after years and years of searching that this one is helping me grow uh in the sense of feeling more fulfilled, balanced, and honestly, uh I feel that it's not that I feel I know that there is spirituality healing meditation is has exploded in the past I guess ten years. And it's like going in a big, big, big, big, big supermarket where everywhere you can uh no, do this, try this, try this, no, this will change your life, no, this will change your life. And we uh me and the people that I know, we are kind of desperate in the supermarket, you know, uh waiting for promotions, queuing and so on. And we try this and we try that, and this hurts, and this is painful, and this is this, and we are just seekers uh and never settling in something that really shows results in terms of uh well-being. So what do I do in the supermarket? Where do I go?

SPEAKER_03 3:00

That's uh that's a interesting question as well, because I agree with you because there is a lot of people offering a lot of methods, techniques, tools, and some are some have some come from a lineage from the past, some are associated to religions, some are associated to new religions and new uh ways of doing things. See the fundamental guiding point is what is it that you need or want at this point of time? So is it do I want to become free of a certain condition that I'm going through? Maybe it is a mental condition. So is it something that I want to become free of? Either in form of in the form of healing, in the form of right understanding. So something that I want to become free of. Then there is the other uh aspect which is I want to gain something. You know? First is to become free of something, the second is to gain something. I want to become happier, I want to become more peaceful, I want to become more detached around life, or I want to have more success. So people have different needs at different stages of their life. So depending on what your need is presently, and depending on what stage of your life you are, what you what tools will work for you changes. This is number one. Number two is it depends on the kind of personality that you are, physically, your constitution of your body, constitution of your mind. You know, some people are uh what we call in Ayurveda, we call it like a vata type, like you know, the wind type. So they are moving constantly, they are more nervous. So, you know, when you go through that constitution, the kind of practices that you should bring into your life will be different. When you are in the Kafa constitution, which is the water element, then you know the those people are much slower, they are much more grounded, and but their challenge will be in moving faster, in in changing faster. So for those people, the kind of practices, the kind of tools that they need to use, again, considering the first point, again, the time of the stage of their life and the needs presently. So these things dictate what would work for an individual. Now, this is having said to this point, there is also what is available for us in different places, different times. You know, sometimes we don't we didn't get some of these things, we don't have much idea about it. So we move through all of these, all these factors determine what uh you need at that point.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

But Rajesh, the criteria that you mentioned uh require lots of self-knowledge. And the reason for which we are searching is self-knowledge. You see what I'm saying? I mean, the criteria that you mentioned is know your type. Whether you are more uh extrovert, introvert, uh restless, or do you need more action? Do you need to more to slow down?

SPEAKER_03 6:29

No, I would I would say, you know, it's not about getting more uh studying different uh theories around all of these things. It's just a simple observation. See, for example, if I'm hungry and I know I am hungry, and then if I wait on it a little bit more and I ask myself, okay, is it a hungry where I can eat one sandwich, or is it a hungry where I need a full meal? Is it something and what would work for me like you know, in the past I've had this food and then it has not worked for me. So this kind of a basic understanding of where we are and what kind of type. You know, some people can't sit even for three minutes and then they feel highly restless. Maybe they have an ADHD condition or something else, and then by nature they are of such type. So just recognizing ourselves as such.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

You know, we don't need to have agitated and I need to slow down. Exactly. And then let's say you know what my problem is, is whom do I ask? You see what I'm saying? I mean, everybody everywhere is promoting uh themselves as ah, that's the thing for everything. Yes. Yes, uh Tony Robbins, come here and we change your life. Uh this and that, it doesn't matter the names. Everybody is claiming that if you do this, your life is changing. And we are not educated to have discernment in choosing what uh fits us. I have discernment in choosing what color shall I uh wear or what clothes are okay for me, or what food should I eat. But in in choosing what will calm my nervous system, what will um increase my um what will balance my nervous system? What will enhance my life experience? I have no criteria.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Exactly. See, everyone starts, even with the dress sense. You know, when we are younger, we don't have a dress sense. Some people have better dress sense than others, then there is a trial and error method. So we go through a trial, we try things, we fail perhaps, and then we found we slowly find the way it works for us, and then what would work for me, what I would what would not work for me. So this is this trial and error method is true for all people. Then we need to invest ourselves. I call it like digging a well in one place instead of in many, many places. So once we invest ourselves into a particular practice that we are comfortable with, and a particular system that is much more comfortable with our value systems or with our cultural systems. So these things are essential because only then we are more grounded in it, and then we can take the benefit of what that is to offer. And it can change over time as we as we grow or as we move to different phases of life. It can change. But the commitment towards that part at that moment is important. That's why I would trust, I would say, instead of trusting people who sell or give these choices or teach all of these methods, we have to trust the outcome of what is what we are experiencing. Trust the outcome. I I I take a particular tool, I practice it maybe for a few months, and then once I see that, I see this tool has helped me so much, and this tool has not helped me so much. So from that, I take the benefit of what it is doing, and then I also put it inside like, okay, you know, this is not working. Because everything will not work for everybody, whatever the claims are.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Okay. So try it for a while.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

For a while, sincerely.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yes, sincerely, okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yes, and then when something works. The second point on that is when something works, take it. But the second point of it is see if these whatever these tools that we are taking in are a bit more integrated and grounded.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Because this is what I didn't understand yesterday when we spoke.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

See, let me give a very ex different example here. If somebody says, uh, I give you a tool, like a mental tool or some tools with which you can make a lot of money, you can be very successful, you can become a multimillionaire in in in a year or so. Would we ask a question like, okay, what are the downsides of this method? What will I have to give up? Is it does it cover my health while I'm doing this whole process? Does it cover, does it also address my relationship with other people? You know, if they say like, okay, get out of your family, go out there, do it for three years, and then come back to your family with them as a millionaire. So what does it cost? So when I say integrated, whatever we are trying to do, it should be integrated with our real life. That's all. To all our other aspects of our life and be suitable with our lifestyle. Yes, and lifestyle and our needs. See, it's our needs are in so many aspects. So it should be grounded in reality, you know. It should somebody, you know, otherwise somebody peddles something like, you know, you can you can levitate and you can fly today, tomorrow. And then like, why?

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Why would I levitate?

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Exactly. No, I can pay the problem, yes. Or I can I can pay$1,000 and take a flight, you know, or$100 and take a flight.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

So it so it's like being very pragmatic. It's being very pragmatic. I'm agitated. Okay, what do I need? I uh need uh a practice that will uh calm my mind. Uh I'm asking Chat GPT, Chad GPT, what are the practices? No, really, to calm my mind. And I'm trying, I'm picking one, okay? And I'm checking it, I'm doing it sincerely with with with presence, with hundred percent. I'm doing it for one month or one week or two weeks, and see if I get the results that I need.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

As you try it, slowly you will find your way around like this works for me, like yoga works for me. Oh, no, Pilates works for me. No, walking works for me. So once you do that, then you settle down in a set of practice. See, you whether you find a teacher or you just find a tool, it's up to us. Sometimes we find a teacher with whom we can resonate, and then the teacher is usually helpful because the teacher has in many cases has passed through that path and knows the pitfalls. Like I've traveled this five times and I know where all we will fall or we'll have an accident. So I can help you when you come to that point, and when you fall there, I can tell you like this is not the end of the story. I've fallen before and I know it. So the teacher is more a guide who helps us in the path. It is not about delivering whatever they are promising, you know. It's not about like, okay, I will deliver that thing, you know, it's not about delivering. I don't believe in people who say, I will deliver all of those things. I say we need a teacher where they will help us in the path. There could be one path that you take maybe for a month, maybe for a week, maybe for a year, maybe for five years. And then once that path is completed with that person, then you walk away, then you find the other one. Eventually you will find, slowly you will find something that is more sustainable for your mindset. So then there is a greater investment of commitment in that pathway. You know, so that's why it is for the individual to choose which method would work. You know, for some people, uh Raja Yoga, that is the visualizations and then you know, energy fields and all of that would work very, very well. For some other people, they are more mind-oriented and like intellectual, and then they say, like, you know, for me philosophy works, and with it philosophy and I gain wisdom, and with that wisdom I work. For some other people, they say, okay, meditation practice, like uh like age-old meditation practices, like focus meditation, mindfulness practices, and those things work for me very well. And then with the help of that, I take wisdom, then with the help of that, I go and work on my heart. So, whichever path you take, eventually they come to certain fundamentals. The fundamentals of a spiritual growth. When I use the word spiritual, I use it in a very practical, pragmatic sense. For me, spirituality is about living life in this lifetime with the best outcome, as in being peaceful, being happy, being successful in whatever we want to achieve or have, and then being uh expanding our consciousness to as much as possible to include. The more our consciousness is expanded, which real meditations do, the more we are expanded, the less we have conflict with the world and the world around us. So I would say the purpose of a spiritual journey or a practice is should be to expand our consciousness. Expanding our consciousness includes three aspects. The first aspect is sharpening or cultivating our awareness, our ability to see, our ability to be focused, our ability to pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

What's going on in the world with us and within our surroundings.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

Inside, outside, everything. So that we need to cultivate through right practices. So along with this comes the second part with this, which is opening up our heart. The heart space is the ability to hold the, as I said, the world, the bigger space, you know, hold more than ourselves, you know, the other person, then the person next to us. So the bigger space. To hold that space, we need to open up through gratitude, through compassion, through loving kindness, through different ways of connecting with the world. So that is the heart space. So knowing, opening up and opening up the cultivating the heart space. Then the third one is have the right understanding about the world around us. Right understanding or right wisdom is that which aligns with the nature of life around us. You know, if somebody says this microphone is going to be there for eternity, I would not believe it. Why would it? It will die. Maybe in 50 years, maybe in 100 years, it will become part of the earth again.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

You know?

SPEAKER_03 17:36

So that claim that this microphone will live eternally, or Rajesh will live eternally, is a false claim which doesn't go along with the understanding of our life. So, so that is the way, that is wisdom. This is itself is wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

So when we open up with awareness and open up the heart, wisdom starts arising, whether through a teacher or through yourself from within. Because once we start seeing clearly the nature of how things work, start seeing clearly, then we know life works, whether it is internally as in our mind, the flow of our emotions, the nature of ourself, or externally, as in the interconnection between different aspects of life and what is happening to you, what is happening to the other person, how life flows. So all of this, this understanding has to grow step by step. It is not like you know, we read one book and then we take it.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, yeah, no, I I understand why my um my challenge, and as I see around me, the challenge with the people that I know is that there is so, so, so much information out there that it gets uh it it's too much. Uh and we don't have the criteria. Like, for example, you say, okay, open your heart. Cool. So what do I do to open my heart? From where do I what do I do? Do I go now on Insta? Do I go on Facebook? Uh do I use ChatGPT? You see what I'm saying? I mean, for you it's it's uh you know it's like oh yeah, open your heart, but uh how do we do that?

SPEAKER_03 19:22

No, no, no. See, these are all information dispensers, or whether it is ChatGPT or Instagram or any of these things. That is not where we go. That is the first step for 30 minutes. That's all. Then where do we go? We go into the practice. You know, ChatGPT, ask Chat GPT and it gives you a practice. But how do I choose the practice? Ah start somewhere. Start somewhere. We always have to start somewhere. You know, when I started my first meditation when I was maybe in my teens or something, and then you know, I sat there and I have no idea what I was doing, and I had access to some books about something which said something else, and then I was sitting there and I was maybe half daydreaming. Maybe, you know, I don't know what was happening. But somewhere I started, and then somewhere I started doing something else. So eventually I found a spiritual teacher in my life, and then that teacher guided me, and eventually I questioned the teacher, questioned the whole process and everything, till it came to a point where I could put my trust into that space, into that practices around it, into the person of that personage of the teacher. So then there was guidance, and then the guidance would take us. So at some other stage in my life, later on in my life, you know, I moved away from that teacher, and then I I found other teachers in my life. But now I was I had an understanding of what is real and what is important in my life and what I want. So now my choice of teachers were different. And then I journey with somebody for some time, and then maybe then I find somebody else with whom I can work something. So, but eventually, what this journey will develop, you know, like how we develop a career as well. You know, we start somewhere, we get we we become an intern somewhere, and then we don't know, we learn the ropes of it, and then slowly and steadily. The other part of it is some people like to be the searchers and seekers. So that is a pitfall that is I've seen a lot in these spiritual journeys. That is, they they are somehow addicted to something that is new or something that is in vogue right now, or or their own journey in like, you know, I know this, I know this, I know this, I know, I know a lot of things. So for me, uh for for me, I think it is a complete distraction. You know, I don't want to know all things that is there, I don't try every method that comes out there. I have my base. You know, which is like, okay, I have to improve my awareness, whatever helps me to improve my awareness, my existing practice, and I continue that practice, I strengthen my practice. So that's why I say keep digging in one place, you will find everything, because underneath all waters are connected. So underneath all wisdom are connected. You know, we can take a religious path, a Christian path or a Hindu path or a Buddhist path. And underneath, as you find it deeper and deeper and deeper, distractions are always on the surface. You know, everybody they have they get a new angle around things. They write a new book or they have a new podcast or something. Like it's like looking at this mug. You know, somebody looks at it from a particular angle and then they say, like, nobody has seen it this way. So I'm going to show them this can be seen this way. But everybody is talking about the only the mug. So, in my opinion, I'm saying, like, you know, it's still the only the mug. So it's okay if I read one person who says, uh, this is how I saw the mug. But my point is, when am I going to see the mug? I'm my purpose is I want to see the mug. I wouldn't want to read people seeing the mug. So I don't want to see other people's experiences about seeing the mug. I want to see the mug myself. They are good because they they give me an idea that the mug exists, and that's it. So how I get there, maybe I start with somebody's ideas first, if I have no idea myself. Then slowly I go through that path, then you forge your path there. You know, either you go through a time-tested path, which is like you know, a practice that has been going on through lineages, like a Buddhist practices, Hindu practices, some of the Christian practices, or some other modern-day teachers who has brought a practice which has worked and then which connects with you, you can take that path. Or you can make your own path. The problem with making our own path is we don't know what the pitfalls are, and we don't know if we got stuck in some place and then we cannot get out of it. So that is why it is better to have a time-tested path. So these many of these spiritual practices have been tested over time by so many people and then acknowledged, you know. So I would suggest that taking that path is much safer than something.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Like something that is an old practice and tested.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Time tested, tested by many people who have gone through that process. And then, you know, it is it is like you know, a scientific journal test, you know, tells you that okay, this is it, and you know, we all approve that this method works. So, like a theory that is proposed. So, exactly like that. So, it is better to use that one, or you can use both, like as I would say, a practice, a spiritual practice which helps you and takes you deeper and helps you in your journey. And then sometimes when we have an immediate issue that we need to resolve, then you can use some breathing techniques from here, and you can use you can use a philosophy that works, a healing that works from through somebody. That is okay. You know, that is all helpful for us in the journey. But then the primary, your spiritual journey has to slowly and steadily. It's nothing happens in a day, we don't get a eureka moment and then this is it right away. Uh you know, it everything starts, we build, we build, and we build, and then we continue to do the practice. But the fundamentals, as I say, are essential that we have to keep in mind. Does it improve my awareness? Or does it ask for a belief, a blind belief around something?

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Then you have to be careful wherever you know when when there is a blind belief.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

When there is blind belief without being able to question the method or the system. The blind belief or a belief comes later. Once you tested it all, then you have to go full in. Because then we if we keep on questioning every step of everything, then we don't go anywhere. We don't make progress because our mind itself will be an impediment to whatever we want to go. So we have to question enough, and then we have to find that, okay, this one works for me, or this teacher's uh teachings work for me, or these methods work for me, then I am going full on. So then we have to go. If there is somebody who can help you in that path, it will be well and good. When the Buddha comes down from Nepal, today's Nepal, and then he goes to the forest, and then he finds that period of time was high in spirituality and new age spirituality at that time. There were people doing different things and different philosophies. The marketplace was pretty big, you know, at that time even. So he goes, he knows he has a condition, which is like, I want to be free of this suffering. He's found out his suffering, he wants to be free of his suffering, but he doesn't know how. So he goes to one teacher first and learns something for for quite some time, and then learns something, yeah, and he masters it, and then at the end of mastering it, and he finds like, but yeah, it brings so many things, but it doesn't solve the real problem why I came here. Then he goes to the next person teacher, and then he masters that. He even goes like into states of non-perception, like you know, so so much, so many states. And then he finds at one point that as long as I'm in meditation, I'm in utmost peace. But when I come out of meditation into normal life, all of these things come back to me. So that is not the real solution then. So he goes on working on different, different, different techniques and tools and philosophies.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

And then he discovers, oh, this doesn't work. Okay, then I go. Only then eventually, at each level, there is a layer that is removed, there is a uh clarity that happens, insights that he gets. Then eventually meditating upon uh one day meditating under that uh bodhi tree, and then he he becomes this bag of bones and he's super tired and you know he's not eaten, that's when something changes for him. So the path is not always visible directly, you know. But if you belong to a culture where there is a path, that is easily given, that is, it's easily available. But even then, we have to at some point discover if it is my path. So there's always that question.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

The way I see it is this that uh nobody teaches you uh the criteria to choose. Uh no, no.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Many people teach criteria. Now that is also a big market of criteria. So again, if you went go into that, you know, see people have taught criteria. It's just the question of whom do we follow. You know, in some if you follow a particular religion, say I come from a Hindu religion background, you know, you know how many criteria and how many teachers we have in Hinduism who have given criteria of how you should start a spiritual journey, there are so many. You know, so everywhere there are criteria around the world, everywhere. They are given so many things. If you just scratch the surface, if you go into uh uh Theravada Buddhism, if you go into a Mahayana Buddhism, and then the first book would start with all the criteria like okay, we can guide you in this place. And if you go into uh Hinduism, a Shaivism, if you go uh a Vedanta path, you know, if you go into a Kriya Yoga path, you know, there are so many paths and all of those parts.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Trial and error, this is what you say. Know what you want. For example, if you are an overthinker, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Know your pain point.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Know your pain point and uh talk with people around you if they had the same issue, how they addressed it.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Maybe it will work for you, maybe it will not.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Maybe not. Try it for a couple of weeks, see if it works, if it brings you the results uh that you desire. If they bring you the results that you desire, you keep on going because consistency is another issue. Yes. Uh consistency.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

That's why a lot of people are spiritual shoppers, window shoppers. They keep going and going and going, and that is not useful. You know, in the long run it is like a badge, like a you know, I'm a seeker badge, but then seeker seekers are not at peace. They are constantly running. So they may be running for something what they call as special, but then the running is running. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's not different from going on shopping for clothes. Yes. So it's the same.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yes, you to transfer this uh habit to the spiritual world. Some other world.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Okay. See, the criteria is your need. Your need, okay. And then bringing questioning if it works. Not it need not deliver everything that you want, but if it delivers some aspect, and then as you grow, as you evolve, you move. And then to one stage you find this tool is much more sustainable. It could take it can take me through different layers of my needs that may arise now and and henceforth. Then you continue. Then you continue digging, continue establishing yourself in a practice. And in the pathway, if you find your guru, your teacher, whoever it may be, and then after a point you need to surrender to that teacher after all due diligence, surrender to that teacher so that the teacher can guide you into the next phase. You know? Even if you are learning to trust scuba diving, you know, you have to somehow trust that trainer who is going to take you underwater. You know?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

So it's the same with the same with spirituality.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

But then here we also give our mind and our heart and everything to to in a vulnerable place to be guided. But that is also a part of the journey because we cannot go beyond a point all by oneself. There is there needs to be some help because the mind, you know, when you go into a spiritual journey within oneself, the mind after a point plays a lot more games. You know, we all see how our mind plays games, but the more you go deeper and deeper and witness the way the mind works, it plays a lot more games. So that's why we need help. But to start with, we can start by ourselves, find different methods, and go in this path. If it is so easy, if it is so clear from day one, I don't think there will be much learning happening.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah, right. It's it's a process, it's a road like for everything in life. Exactly. Finding the right partner, finding the right job, finding the right outfits, exactly, uh the right color of your hair. It's just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

It's that path. We need to be patient, we need to be at it, and once we find it, we need to stick with it to go deeper.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah. Okay. Okay, good. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh thank you very much for uh listening to this episode, watching this episode on meditation. Uh, hopefully, um, meditation and spirituality, so to say. Hopefully, you will find uh uh some answers to your own questions, not only my questions. Uh please don't forget to subscribe to Mindfulness and Beyond and to Untra Barkarenskimba Viazza. And see you in the next episode. Bye bye.