S2 EP 13: From High School Dropout to Pro Bowl | Ken Harvey | Bench to Bold

He dropped out of high school, attempted suicide, got on a plane to Oakland with no money and no plan, earned a scholarship to UC Berkeley, and was drafted 12th overall in the 1988 NFL Draft. If the story ended there it would already be worth telling. In this episode of Bench to Bold, Marnie sits down with her longtime friend and Washington Commanders legend Ken Harvey — four-time Pro Bowler, author, comedian, and one of the most raw and honest guests the show has ever had. Ken walks through all of it: the truancy, the depression, the three career-ending injuries that didn't end his career, losing his first son to SIDS, the identity crisis that followed retirement, and the decade-long process of rediscovering purpose after the stadium went quiet. He also talks about writing children's books with Terry Crews to give his sons brown characters to see themselves in, the animated series and live-action sport he's creating now, and why he did stand-up comedy on his 60th birthday — because it's never too late.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
00:00:07 — Introduction — One of Marnie's Favorite People
00:01:18 — Pop Warner to Dropout — The Road That Almost Wasn't
00:02:33 — A Purpose and a Destiny — What Brought Him Back
00:04:10 — Laney Junior College to UC Berkeley — Speaking It Into Existence
00:05:44 — 12th Pick, Arizona Cardinals & Learning to Be a Pass Rusher
00:08:37 — ACL, Rotator Cuff & the Loss of a Son — Challenges as Challenges
00:12:05 — Where the Resilience Came From — Family, Faith & a Mom Who Hopped Fences
00:15:55 — Retirement, Identity Loss & Hiding in Broad Daylight
00:22:39 — Children's Books, Terry Crews & the Exodus 4:2 Moment
00:26:18 — What's Next — Comedy at 60, Float Ball & Claudia and the Prayer Warriors 

ABOUT KEN HARVEY:
Ken Harvey is a former NFL outside linebacker, four-time Pro Bowler, and member of the Washington Commanders Ring of Fame. Drafted 12th overall by the Phoenix Cardinals in 1988 out of UC Berkeley, he compiled 89 career sacks across 11 seasons before retiring in 1998. After football, Ken channeled his creativity into authorship, co-writing the children's book Come Find Me with actor and artist Terry Crews, along with several other children's books and two thriller novels. He is the Executive Director of the Touching Heart Foundation, focused on inspiring children through compassionate leadership, and is a co-host of the Commanders Justice podcast alongside Marnie Schneider and John Booty. He is currently developing a 12-episode animated series called Claudia and the Prayer Warriors and a new live-action sport called Float Ball.

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BenchtoBold

Follow Bench to Bold on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/benchtobold

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Bench to Bold. I'm Marnie and I'm Elisa. And today we have one of my favorite people, Ken Harvey. So thank you, Ken. Hey, Ken. Nice to see you.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hello. It's good to come in with a title of one of your favorite people. That's that's pretty awesome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I know.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I thought I was her favorite person.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Well, you said one of, so you know.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

She has one of many. That's right. Well, there's to be at the top of the pyramid. You're in the top. Ken is in the top. Uh, you know, people that I admire and respect and have been great advocates out in the community, those are the things that I look for as the top people in my life. And so uh, Ken, you're certainly at the top. Awesome. Uh, and we're really excited to have you on because, you know, the name of the show is Bench to Bold. And you have had many uh many moments where you've been very bold, but there have been a few that have been where you've probably felt a little benched. And so today we would just love to uh share your story with everybody, and uh, you know, you can take it from the beginning. How did you get started in football, Ken? How did that career happen for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

All right, I I will I will warn you, uh, ex-players who haven't did a lot haven't done a lot of interviews recently talk a long time. So cut me off when uh I'm going on and on and on because I get a chance to be on the mic and I may go crazy a little bit. Go for it. So uh my dad, mom, uh, you know, big we were in, I'm from Austin, Texas, and everybody was a big cowboy fan, and you know, Texas and cowboy football, that's kind of religion there. And uh, but I was also kind of uh a kid who used to always just sit and watch TV and dream and fantasize and all that. And so my parents were like, you need to get out of the house, you need to do something productive, go play some football. So I got into pop corner football, played that for a little bit, uh, got the nickname Hammerhead, uh, which I don't like anymore. So don't call me Hammerhead. Uh, but got the nickname Hammerhead, and then uh from there it was uh, you know, it's I I played on and off. Uh it was a long journey. I uh I don't know, you want me to take you all the way to uh college?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yes, I love your can I I'm yes, I love your story. I haven't heard your story, so I'm gonna hear it. It's a very inspiring story.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

I uh I played, I played a little bit all through um junior high, then I played a little bit in high school. Then I got to um uh my junior year and ran into issues with truancy, you know, missing days of school. Uh wasn't really doing anything crazy or bad, just uh, you know, missing could become a habit. I was a quiet kid who was kind of an introvert and just um, you know, missing just became easy, it easy to do. But at the same time, I was playing football. It was an offseason, and so the two kind of collided together, and it got to a point where it was either, you know, you're gonna make straight, you're gonna make straight F's, uh, we could put you in an easy class and make you pass just so you could play football. Had all those types of options options, and for me, it was like, you know, I'm not dumb. Uh almost insulted, I'm not dumb, but I also kind of figured I need to get my life right, my mind right. And so I dropped out of high school, my senior high school, dropped out, um, got my mind kind of right, or I don't want to say got my mind right. During this time of dropping out, you easily get labeled as the world can label people in several different ways. And you can listen to the label, or you could just brush the label off. But you know, automatically I was labeled as dumb. You know, he used to drop out in high school, he's dumb. But I also was in the weight room and I lifted weights a lot, and so I was, you know, I was big and labeled as dumb. And it was frustrating to death because that wasn't me. I figured that, you know, that's not me. And so um, so so during that time I got really depressed. I mean, I got to the point of uh feeling like, and a lot of times it's all in your own mind, but feeling like I had no reason to be on this earth. And so for me, it you know, took a bunch of pills, tried to end it all, and it didn't happen. And I thought I felt like I heard God saying to me, I was on my knees praying, like, you know, what am I supposed to do? In tears. And I felt like God said to me, You have a purpose and a destiny. You have a purpose and a destiny. And sometimes that's all you need to hear is that you have a purpose and a destiny. And so ended up going back to school. Uh didn't play my senior high school football, tried to, you know, I asked the coach. He's like, no. Coach even went so far as to say, you're losing, you'll be a loser all your life. Uh, but I went back to high school, finished up, uh, and then I wanted to go to college because it was in my mind, it was like I wanted to prove to everybody that I wasn't duh. And so I uh, but I didn't have good grades, I didn't have the best grades, and we didn't have any money. And so it's kind of like, how in the world are you gonna get to college? And so that old saying, speak it into existence. I was working out and I met a guy in a gym who who just admired the way I was working out. He told me about a junior college in Oakland, California. I'm in Texas, I've never been outside of, you know, as far as I can walk. And so uh me and another guy from Austin, we get on a plane, we go to Oakland, California, play there at this junior college for two years, Laney Junior College, played there for two years, get a scholarship to the University of California, Berkeley. And for those that don't know, that's like one of the best schools in the country. And so it's kind of like, wow, God was right. You know, I got a purpose and a destiny. And so I go there, I play there for two years. Uh, everyone thought, you know, I was a good player, but not, I don't know if people saw me. Kyle wasn't really winning when I was playing. And so I was kind of uh on the back burner, but then I had uh some post-games, East West Shrine game, the senior bowl. And I was the most valuable defensive player of both of those. I did well in the combine. And the year that I came out, everybody was looking for linebackers. So lo and behold, I get drafted 12th pick in the first round of the NFL draft. I go to the Arizona Cardinals, Phoenix Cardinals then. Um no one, no one had ever heard of this was that first year movement at Phoenix, and no one had ever heard of the Phoenix Cardinals. And so I go there, they look at me and they were like, well, you know, you're too small to be one of our linebackers. This is back in the day when the linebackers were 6'5, 6'4, 265 pounds, 270 pounds. Um, you're too small to be one of our linebackers, so we're gonna try to make you a third-down cover guy. And that wasn't my thing. So I almost lost my job my first year because I was getting destroyed. And then I kept trying to convince them to let me be a pass rusher. And ultimately, I was able to be a pass rusher. And then from there, you know, I just kept playing. Um played in Arizona for six years, free agency comes about. I go to the uh Washington, then Redskins, and play here for five years. Out of those five years, four of those five years, I was most valuable defensive, or not most valuable, I was Pro Bowl for those five years. So pro bow for four years, and uh and had a pretty good career on the ring of fame and the whole thing like that. So, you know, it's kind of uh God's message was true and and um I did I did have a purpose, uh, and it was it was to try to play ball and to try to do some good in the world, and also to kind of just try to protect and look up and and help those who don't believe in themselves or don't see anything beyond where they're at. So that's that's the football career. And then there's other other parts of my life, but I'll shut up and let you guys talk if you want.

unknown 8:04

I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Ken, I you know, I love your story because there's so many things that everybody can relate to. Obviously, not feeling good about themselves, not feeling valuable, not feeling worthy, not you know, the resilience, the grit. But you also have to add in that during your career, you had what now, you know, what people would have considered career-ending injuries, but that still did not stop you. So let's talk about that a little bit and how those setbacks also became things that are part of the the Ken Harvey tapestry.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

So we had um, I tore my ACL uh in a in a football game. It was against the Atlanta Falcons. Um I went up to try to take on a on a on an offensive lineman, and another offensive lineman came at my knee. I think it was accidentally, but hit the knee. I think I partially tore my ACL. It may have been, you know, permanently tore, but but it felt like it was partially tear. I couldn't go sideways, but I kept playing in the game. And then, you know, I should have gone out, but I kept playing in the game. And then ultimately I got one guy stood me up, and another guy hit my shoulder. My foot was planted in the ground and heard this pop, and boom, I'm on the ground and tore my ACL. Uh, so so that took me out. And back then, ACL recovering from my ACL was kind of you know a death thing. Then uh after that, about a year after that, I tore the rotator cuff in my shoulder and the labrum in my shoulder, and so I had to get that repaired. And that was in Arizona. So all those were like career-ended injuries that people thought were career-ending injuries. Uh, on top of that, before all that happened, our first uh son, me and my wife, and my I know I've known my wife since uh the junior college. Me and my wife, our first son, passed away from SIDS. Uh and uh, you know, for me, it was it was easier to deal with because you could take that anger and hit somebody. And, you know, that's what football was for. You hit somebody, that was me, anger. She had to, she had to deal with that, not necessarily by herself. It was good that she had a good network of people around her to try to help her through it. And so those were kind of some of the setback moments in my life. But fortunately, with all that that happened, my my main focus was to, you know, just do the best I could. You know, sometimes when you have a when you feel like you have a purpose and a destiny, that's your focus. And so all the little things along the way don't mean as much because you're not less necessarily looking at things along the way as a setback, you're looking at it as a challenge to get to your destiny. And that's the kind of way I looked at it. It was like, these are just challenges that try to stop me from getting to where I'm supposed to be. And so for me, uh it was, you know, how can I train? How can I work out? How can I achieve and show everybody? And I guess it was my whole life during that time. I wanted to show everybody I was gonna make it. That that wasn't gonna define me as a failure. I wasn't gonna quit, I wasn't gonna stop, I'm gonna keep going. That's my destiny, that's the way I'm supposed to be. And so I, you know, I kind of pushed through all that. And I say I, it wasn't necessarily just me. It's I had some great strength coaches that really had um techniques that really helped my legs get stronger. And and from the took from the torn ACL and the shoulder, uh, I had great teammates who really helped me out along the way. So it's not just me, but but there's me in that to uh to keep going on. So yeah, that was some of the things that set me back a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

So where do you can, you know, this resilience and grit and purpose and destiny, uh where did all of that come from? Like your mother, your father, you? I mean, like some of the genesis of some of some of those things. Because those are big character, I mean, some people only have one of those characters' uh qualities in them. You have many. So how did all of them have been?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

I mean, I think it was like a lot of it was just it was faith. Like our grandmother lived, I don't know, about a hundred yards from the church. You know, that's how that's how important the church was for them. And I think they used to pray all the time. And then my parents were were the ones who, you know, my dad worked two jobs to try to make sure he took care of everybody, seven kids. And, you know, you could easily leave and disappear. He stood there and and busted his butt to to make sure everybody was supported. My mom would would take me to football practice, and and sometimes she would hop the fence with me, stuff that you would never imagine your mom doing, but she wanted to make sure her son was taken care of. And so, you know, you you you all those things get sucked into you and you and you don't realize them until you need them. And then I think that whole thing of uh seeking God is it's knowing and hearing that that you have a purpose and you have a destiny. And I think sometimes you can speak things into existence and you can speak things out of existence. You know, your environment can tell you you're you're a failure. You know, your environment can tell you that you're not good enough. The things and the words and the stuff that you hear and see on TV can tell you you're not good enough. There's a lot of things in the world that can say that you're not good enough. And sometimes we need those people to say, you know what, I see something in you, or man, you you look like you got a lot of potential, or I believe in you. Those simple words can change a person's destiny. And I've had some people that, you know, neighbors who um spoke into my life and said, you know what, you should be something great. I I see all this great potential in you. I've had people out of nowhere, you know, just walking on the street and say, you know what, you look like you you're too big to be doing nothing. You got you got all this potential, son. Put it to use. And so all that happened, and then, you know, I was just blessed. I mean, I I was strong, but I busted my butt in the gym, but I was strong, so I gained strength quick. And so, you know, on testing on paper, I looked pretty, I looked pretty good. Or I think I shocked a lot of people on paper. So that part worked out. And then, you know, dreaming, you know, you got you gotta have a dream and a belief, right? I used to watch all these karate movies of the great comeback, you know, you know that that old in a karate movie, somebody would get beat down and they go wander around and they find his old master and he'll teach them all these techniques and they become this great karate master. That's the way I used to look at life. And and like when you start believing things, sometimes it can come true. You know, the belief is kind of a key part of it, so that's it.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

It's like the Rocky movies, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Could be, you know. It it it I I guess. I mean, I I was um I can't box, but but um I think it's uh Well, I feel like a lot of it's self-fulfilling prophecies, too. It is. I mean, you did you know, people say you're going the direction of your belief, and if you believe uh that that's what you're supposed to do, then some of those things that could pull you and stop you, you brush aside because you're not focusing on the things on the side of you, you're focusing on what's in front of you. So that was, you know, that was that was the journey to get to the NFL, to stay in the NFL and play there. And I was like I said, I was fortunate to do it and play all those years. Post football, that same belief thing kind of set me back, right? Um I had when I had dropped out of school and I used to train, I used to train and say to myself all the time, I would say it out loud when I was running, you know, you're not gonna quit, you're not gonna give up, you'll never stop, not gonna quit, won't give up, won't ever stop. Say it. Boom, boom, boom, over and over and over again. Start believing that. And so that's kind of the way I play, you know. He's the guy who he won't stop. He won't give up, he'll keep going for four quarters. Uh, but then when I retired, I was I was injured. In my last year, I was injured. And when I retired, it was it wasn't the retirement, like most players, you don't retire the way you want to retire. And so, but in my mind, I felt like I quit. And I heard my coach from way back in high school say that you were a loser, you're gonna be a loser all your life. And I felt like I gave up and I felt like I quit. Even though it didn't make any sense, you know, it was an injury, it was whatever. In my mind, I started believing that. And then that becomes what you believe also. And so your life becomes that. And so, you know, a lot of a lot of the years post-football, I was kind of like hiding in broad daylight. You know, I was I was in front of everybody, you know, you're Ken Harry, you're this former football player, man, you you had a great career, you blah, blah, blah. But inside, I was like, man, I'm I quit. I gave up. I'm a quitter. I gave, you know, I stopped.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

And so I was I was Did you feel like you did not have an identity?

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I f I felt like I didn't have an identity, and and then the pressing thing was like, I quit. It just it just felt like I quit. And yeah, I I didn't I didn't keep pushing, and and then I had no direction to go. I had nothing else to uh to to say this is my purpose, this is my destiny. And so I'll all those things kind of really packed on, and and uh it was um it was it was a struggle for a long time, you know. And that's I think that's what a lot of people, ex-military, people who are older, you know, senior citizens, they start they retire from the job they've been doing all their life.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

People who they're kind of moms, it's really hard.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Not that that's what all moms do, but you know, but that's that was your identity. It's gone now. It's it's what do you do next? A lot of people get lost. And so for me, um, it was I was lost trying to find what's my purpose, who am I, and what's my identity.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

And so I felt like so many athletes struggle with it.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

It's athletes, but like I said, it's people in general, it's just come you see, you see it more prevalent in athletes because there's this immediate spotlight, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Somebody especially for athletes have been the star of the show. Yeah, you know, and then all of a sudden you're not the star anymore.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

You become invisible, you know, the doors open when you're when you're playing great game, can man. Let me get the door for you.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Let me have a autograph and all the things.

SPEAKER_02 18:26

And then when it starts kind of fading away or the doors don't open as much and all that stuff. And and then, you know, even that is also perspective, you know, and and my perspective was I had that I I quit mentality that, you know, you you you lost, you gave up mentality. And so everything was kind of based off of even the good stuff around me was always clouded by that. And so that's why it's it's important, you know, what you believe about yourself is a big factor in where you're gonna go. And so that's kind of my life had been my life as uh as a story. And then there's another part of it, part two. So we could talk about that when you want to.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

No, I mean, obviously, Ken, your story of being on the field and being a professional athlete and talking about how trying to, those are all great themes that everybody can relate to, not being on the field as a professional athlete, but figuring out what happens when, you know, when I worked at NFL Films and I worked for Steve Sable, we would always talk about like when the cheering stops. And it like you were saying, like obviously your cheering was in a stadium with 80,000 people, but the mailman, when they no longer are the mailman, they're like now they're they're having to adjust and find themselves and figure it out, same way as, you know, if you're a stay-at-home mom and that's your gig and then how you pivot and adjust. And I think that people that have um some good people around them and maybe, you know, obviously having some belief, whether it's, you know, going to church, going to temple, whatever, having some religious belief around them, they can be able to be more flexible in their next journey that they're gonna embark upon. So, all right, so now you're retired from professional football, and so that you aren't, you know, sitting around and Janice, your wife, is probably like, all right, Ken, now what?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

My wife, yeah, my wife is a blessing. She's a great lady. Uh, she endured a lot having to deal with my mood swings and all that. Uh me trying to figure out what to do. Uh, me, you know, being scared to step out and and and to try something different. You've been doing something all your life. And it's sometimes it's fearful to take that chance and step out and expose yourself. Um, for me, it was there was one time, like I had always been creative, but I think I was a peep a people pleaser too, right? And so in a creative vein, I was there, but if you know, someone said, uh, you know, athletes don't do that, you know, you're not supposed to do that. I I kind of forgot the lesson that I learned earlier and would listen to people. And so in the creativity, I kind of always kind of poo-poo that and pushed it to the side or wouldn't go 100% with that. But then uh ultimately I did a kid's book when I was playing football. And and the first kids' book I did, uh, the guy Terry Cruz uh from America's Got Talent, he did the artwork, amazing artwork, amazing artists. Uh we were kind of on sync in that, you know, my story was simple in the story, but he did this great artwork that just brought it to life. And the reason I did the children's book was I wanted one of my sons came home and they were talking about this contest. And if you win this contest, you get to be one of the crack characters, but he was kind of sad because there weren't any brown characters. And looking back back then, this was you know 25 years ago. So looking at all the shows and all the different things like that, there weren't any brown characters. And now I realized, man, through the eyes of babes, this is what they saw. This is this is this is some of the same thing. I was talking about how your your environment can create who you are and tell you what you are and all that stuff. And so I was like, I want my boys to see themselves as a character in a book. Any other kid read it and they'll say that that's just a hide-and-seek book. But for my boys, I wanted them to know that that was them. And so I did my first children's book. And then years later, we took the same children's book and we used odd men and reality with it. And that actually kind of helped turn my life around doing the book the second time. I can tell you about that.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Of course, Ken. I love the whole story because I like to refer to Ken Harvey as a true Renaissance man because you've been able to, what I believe, what I learned in school, was that you know the Renaissance men were really able to uh have a have a skill set in, you know, many different things. And that is what is so uh delightful about certainly people like you. So you have you are really talented in many different areas and our great husband and and father and all those and friend as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

You found a way to just continually re-invent.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

And like I said, it's I've learned to appreciate that. You know, you can always take that. If your mindset is not right, you can take those complements and be like, yeah, well, uh, and and not really embrace it. And so I've learned to embrace it. Um, with the during this whole time of kind of depressed, trying to figure out what am I supposed to be, where am I supposed to go after football, uh, I got to a point where we were gonna do um, I started reading in the in the Bible, Exodus uh 4-2. Uh Moses was on the hilltop and and God said, What's in your hand? And Moses said, the staff. And then God, and to me, God was saying, you know, Moses, if you trust me, that staff, that simple thing that you have to tend the sheep and to sleep on, or or whatever, that simple stick, if you trust me, the same skill sets that you have, but instead of you tending sheep, you're gonna tend people. You'll lead a million people. You'll be able to part the Red Sea if you trust me. And if you you know, if you read the story, it's like God told Moses, put his hand in his vest, and then it came out leprous, and then he put it back and it came out right. And I look at that and say, God said, you know, yours is the hand that controls the staff, but mine is the hand that controls the hand that controls the staff, just so you know. So I took that and I was like, you know what, let me do these children's books, the Come Find Me book, my the one with my boys, let me do it again. I called up Terry, and by then at that time he was kind of a big star, becoming a big major movie star and all that stuff. And he's like, Yeah, let's that's great. Let's do it and let's do everything. I'll pay for everything, let's do this thing really well. And so we did the book, and then another friend called up, and he had an augmented reality studio, and I was like, you know what? It'll be great to do this book with augmented reality because that's where technology is going. I don't want the book to be where the where it's a video and it's no interaction between the parent and the child, but this way the parent and the child have to work together and still read the book because that's that's what you feel is that bond when you're working together. And so all that comes together, and I feel like I was saying, Kim, what's in your hand? What's the gift that you have in your hand? I said, okay, my creativity. And so I started doing the children's books, and then from that came some other books, and I started doing a bunch of children's books. Then a friend challenged me uh to write a novel, and I did a Thriller Suspense novel, and then I did another one, and uh, then I did another book about my life, and and you know, just from there I just try to use my creative side, uh, but I still felt I I didn't embrace it completely. Ultimately, this year, which is kind of crazy, this year, last year, um, I started embracing it and said, you know what, I'm gonna start embracing things. And so for my 60th birthday, I did stand-up comedy. I don't know if it was, I don't know if they were laughing at me or laughing with me or whatever, but no, everybody loved it, Ken.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Everybody, I yeah, everybody, the feedback was Ken Harvey was there for yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

In fact, Carla earlier asked us if we went, if Marnie went to your uh comedy. I may do it again.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Um just as just to just kind of to re push it.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

I hope so.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

I would uh but the thing is the the theme of it was it's never too late. And and the meaning in that, you know, even though it doesn't always go the way you want it to go, it's never too late to start trying something new, to start pushing in wherever you want to push, because if that's where you're supposed to be, maybe sometimes God is trying to teach you a lesson or teach you something that you know you need to know. And maybe what you're doing is not learning what he's trying to teach you, but it's never too late to learn that. And so I've done I've done a few things. And this year I'm I'm trying to really embrace it. I guess to move on and say, what am I doing now? I'm I've learned focus a little bit. I I think I'm ADH, ADHD, I'm all over the place at times. Three things I'm focusing on is the I'm I'm doing a um 12-episode animation series. Uh it's called Claudia and the Prayer Warriors. And it's about a young girl who's like, it's like a superhero origin, uh, but she gets her strength through people praying for her. Because I think in this world, people are getting the uh people aren't people are misusing prayers, and and then the younger generation are is not really understanding that prayers do work. Sometimes it doesn't work the way you want it, sometimes it takes longer, all that stuff. But it it can work. And so it's called Claudia and the Prayer Warriors. Uh then I have my I'm doing a sports game that I've created. It's a live action sport, like where people are actually playing a sport, uh, not a video game, where they're actually on the field playing a sport. And so it's um it's uh movement-based mental wellness. Um the things that we've the things that we talked about that you lost during sports, after sports, you know, you lose a sense of community, you lose a sense of brotherhood, you lose uh sense of purpose, you lose, you know, strategy, all those things that you, leadership, all those things that you lose when you come out of team sports, you realize sports is a great way to keep everybody together. It's a great way for community. And so if we can, if I can create something that brings people together, give them a chance to talk, give them a chance to achieve goals and give them a chance to win, then that's cool. Does it seem so far out that it's impossible? Me being a dropout in high school and getting drafted in the in the first round seemed impossible far out there. So creating that is called float ball E, the letter E, and then the comedy. Um there's uh uh some comedy stuff I want to do. So those are the three things I'm focusing on the most. Uh there's other things, but those are the three that I'm trying to focus on the most.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

And you're also very charitable too, Ken. So you do a lot of things in the community. You do.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

I do a lot. Um I've done a lot. I've I've you know, I've I've done the one thing you realize is you'll never be able to do, you'll never be able to do everything. You'll never be able to please everybody, you'll you'll never run out of things to do. There are a lot of people, a lot of charities, a lot of a lot of people that need help and things that need help. And so uh somewhere down the line, you also have to figure out what it what are you gonna do. And you can't do a little bit of everything. You gotta figure out, you know, what are the things that you wanna do. And so that's what I've been doing for the last, you know, last 20, 30 years. I've tried to help everybody as much as possible. And you know, that's something I I took from my parents. You know, that they were great people, they helped everybody in in whichever way they can. Uh, and so I've done that, but now I got to figure out what do I, what what is what is my purpose? What am I supposed to do? And that's where I'm at, is saying, okay, I need to help people out. Um sometimes you gotta take a chance. We you know, Marnie, you, Jamie, John Booty, we do a podcast uh called uh Commander's Justice. It was a crazy idea, but you guys believed in it and and and and took a chance to to come out and and and and talk and talk sports, you know, commander's sport. I I know you're Eagles, but Commander Sport, and you took a chance with that. And um, you know, it's it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Well, I'm a football fan, Ken. I'm a fan, you know, when you're a football fan, it is, you know, you welcome the opportunities to talk about athletes and sports and games and the fancy. So I really get to enjoy the city.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

I mean, that's and that's what makes you such a great partner, is that that you are a fan. And so, and so that's you know, you know, I I don't want to say I'm I'm not trying to really pat myself on the back because I believe I got a lot of issues, but I just I just want I I at the end of the day, like someone someone said one time, you know, you got the day you were born and the day you die. And then what are you doing with that dash in between? And I'm kind of like, okay, everybody comes at my funeral and they say, you know what, Ken was a heck of a football player, and that was it. There's such a small part of my life, and you know, and hopefully 80 years, 90 years. That's such a small part of my life to say that's all I am. There has to be more. And so that's to me, is is kind of my mission now. It's like, what can I do to go beyond? And that's where I'm at now, is trying to go beyond. And you know, some of the some of the simple things. You look at this big 200, 280 pounds now, but 280-pound guy who who is fearful, fearful of stepping out, fearful of what people are gonna say, fearful of of opinions and all that stuff, and and and and maybe being in a position that's uncomfortable. And you have to realize, okay, you got to step out sometimes. If I had never, if I was too fearful to get on the plane and leave Austin, Texas and go to this junior college in Oakland, California to start my football career, none of this stuff would have happened. Sometimes you have to take chances and sometimes you have to take the steps. Don't change who you are. I I was still, I still try to treat everybody with respect. I still try to be a good person, but you also still have to take a chance. Sometimes you have to get outside your environment because that's your comfort zone. And so uh for me, it was uh taking chances, and I like to say that God would oftentimes have you do things over and over again until you learn the lesson he's trying to teach you. So it seems like my life had been going. This is a repeat of that, not not exactly the same stuff, but kind of a repeat of those dropping out years, and God is saying, you still have a purpose and you still have a destiny. What are you gonna do? And so now I'm taking more chances, I'm stepping out a little bit. It's okay. People laugh at me, I'm trying to speak it into existence, you know, some of those same steps of uh of hopefully making a difference in people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Oh, they definitely are. And because, you know, your your bravery, because what I, you know, also respect about you, Ken, is that you share that scary part of like, I'm gonna go do it. Like you share, it's you it's raw. Like you expose it to the people that you are close with, but also the people that you don't know. So, for example, when you wrote your theme song to the commanders, because that was something you wrote a song, and you know, suddenly, wait a minute, like, and then you share it with people that you know uh are gonna give you honest feedback, but are also gonna be kind and supportive. So I think that that message of like, of what you're what you're doing, you are, and we've talked about this before, you know, the state motto for North Carolina is S A E S S E Quam Q U A M Videri. And the translation that's Latin is to be rather than to seem. And I love that. I that's one of my favorite sayings. And I love the school that I went to in Philadelphia, that was our school motto, but you're really being versus seeming. And I think that that's how people can get get across the finish line. If you really are being, not seeming. If you're only seeming, you're not gonna get anywhere. It's gonna be uh it's just you're it's gonna be a futile waste of time and money and it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

You know, some people are self-driven, some people have good people around them to shear up the parts that they're weak in. Like you're you're a great motivator, you know, you you're a great person to to lift people up. You know, I don't want to say cheerleader, but you right, but you are that person, right? And so sometimes when a person's like, I don't know if I can do this, they may not say it, but deep down inside there there's that feeling like I can't do this, and you're always willing to jump on board and say, Well, look, I hey, I know this person, and how can I help with that, blah, blah, blah. Man, that that those, you know, you need those type of people. You need some people that'll be that'll be strict and kind of get into your life and say, hey, you got to clean this up, and you you can't do this and you can't do that. We need people in our lives. And I used to be uh, you know, that that lone warrior. Uh, that's the way you would, you know, that's the way I used to watch when I did my Chinese movies. You always that lone lone warrior who fought and did everything by yourself and and realized in life is not by yourself, regardless. There's always gonna be people around you.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

And so I feel like a lot of times you also lose some people in your life along the way, you know, when you're doing these things. And sometimes that's a good thing, right? 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

100%. And there's there's there's um, I was trying to do my own little study on Jesus because I was reading in the Bible and there's times where I I would read, I'm like, man, he's kind of harsh to people, you know. Get get thee behind me, Satan, and uh, or you know, let the let let you know, I'm here to serve my people and all this stuff. And I'm like, well, why would you talk like that? And you know, and doing some research, you just find like when you have a purpose, you have to focus on that purpose. And there are gonna be people who are gonna try to pull you down and you can try to help, but then sometimes you gotta let people go because you'll spend all your time trying to deal with that person and they'll drag you down because the the most comfortable place to be is having everybody around you that feels the same way, and that's a person that's also a person who's down. Sometimes they will drag you down just because they want you to feel comfortable. When I told I told this one coach, former coach, that I was gonna do some stand-up comedy. He's like, Why? You're not funny, you'll you'll never make it. I was like, dude, man. Uh hello to you too. I was like, uh that's uh thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Right. Well, sometimes misery loves company, and some people like to pull you down to their level. You have to let those people go. I learned that a long time ago. It's kind of like being a recovering alcoholic. A hundred percent. Have had a few of those people in my life, and they have to change their friends when they when when they recover from alcohol or drugs. You can't have the same friends.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

100%. It's it's it's it's too many things that become comfortable in a negative zone, and sometimes you have to let it go. And and you know, it's it's it's bad at the moment, but ultimately it's good for you. So uh, so yeah, I mean, I you know, I my life is everyone has a everyone has a story to tell.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah, we were talking about that earlier. Marnie and I were like, everyone, everyone you meet has a story.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

And it could be good, bad, it could be perspective, it could be whatever, but everyone has a story. And your story may not be for anybody but the one person you're telling it to. And and so, you know, I look at myself, look, I I played a game that that I happen to be halfway decent at, and I had fun and I had an incredible career, and I had, you know, I've I've had a lot of blessings in my life. It's good, but it's not my my life is no special than anybody else's life. It has no more greater value than anyone else's life. Uh just you know, things happen, but but everyone has this story, and and some of the things that you hear of people's lives are just, you know, some of the saddest things ever, and then some of the things are some of the greatest things ever. And and sometimes you hear some of the people that come through and and make a big, big difference, and you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Well, I think we all have peaks and valleys in our in our entire life, right? And we also have dysfunction. Everyone has dysfunction, it's just different levels of dysfunction. I had to learn that a long time ago. Um, it's okay. Um, but we all have it. And if people seem to act like they don't have it, you know, I kind of question those people because we all have dysfunction.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

I mean, people, you know, people don't know. Sometimes people don't know what they don't know, or sometimes people put people put blinders on because they don't want to see it and don't want to recognize it.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Don't want to deal with it.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

Yeah, deal with it. But the reality is that we all gotta walk our own paths. And and so you can't worry so much about what that person is doing. You gotta worry about the path that you're walking.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

And that's well, all we can do is control ourselves, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:47

100%. Well, as you can see, even that's the journey. Control yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

That is, you know, I think in coaching, and it might have been Coach Fremille or Coach Noel or something. And this is what I love about sports, and I love about some of these metaphors, is the lessons. Like the coaching lessons are it isn't what anyone else is doing on the field. It's only what you're doing on the field that really matters. So like the rest of it just has to go away. And we really are only able to worry, like to control what we're doing on the field, how we're showing up, how we're preparing, what we're bringing to the field, what level of dedication we're bringing, because what anyone else is doing, and I think that that's why sometimes being on a team, if everybody isn't bringing that level of what you're bringing, it can be very, it can be challenging because you want to see results, but at the end of the day, it's really only what you're doing on the field that is uh is gonna make a difference.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

I mean, that's the great value of sports and team sports, is that you know, you can get it summed up in a in a in a short amount of time. Life is life is a whole big journey, but a lot of those metaphors that you use in sports can apply to everyday life. And so, you know, that that's it. Um Yeah, that's so that's my story. I mean, right now, I'm just trying to, I I I know my I know my purpose now. I believe I know what my purpose is, and I'm trying to push into that and walk into it, and then also just change my mindset of uh saying, you know what, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go all in uh and and don't look back and just keep believing that this is what I'm supposed to do. And sometimes, I tell you what, in football, the biggest difference between a guy catching a ball and missing a ball is is just reaching out, just a little bit, right? Making a tackle and not and missing a tackle is believing that you're gonna make the tackle and reaching out, or believing that guy's too far away and not reaching out. Same distance, same whatever, but it's the belief. It's what your mind says to your body, and and that's that's what that's what makes you better. And so I think life right now is is just about what do you believe? Are you willing to take that step, that little bitty step, that little bit of reach out, and it can make the biggest difference in the world. We'll say this real quick. Um, for playing football, it's a football game in the NFL. I'm running. It's my first first, I think, year or two in the first year in the in the NFL. I'm running, I beat the offensive lineman, I see the quarterback, I hear the crowd. And in my mind, I stopped and I'm like, wow, they're cheering for me. And when I stopped and listened to him cheering for me, the quarterback juked me because I was listening to the crowds and he juked, and then I missed him, and then I just heard everybody go, oh, and I was like, wow, don't take your eyes off the prize. Don't listen to the stuff around you, focus on what you're supposed to do. And that was kind of a lesson in life that I keep trying to teach myself now.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

That is a great lesson, Ken. I have goosebumps from that because it's so true. We like if you are running or doing whatever, and you let you actually allow yourself to tune out whatever, the good or the bad, then you can get closer to where you need to be. And you have to just keep doing it consistently. But I love that metaphor, and that is a great who was the quarterback?

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Do you remember? I just remember the boo the not it was they didn't boo me, just the oh.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

I was like, oh, like the say I know that sounds like I was probably in the crowd.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yeah, it could have been.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Yeah. I mean, because that's you see the, you know, ultimately that's what's so fun about watching a game and being a fan. There's really not, there's uh, there's nothing more fun than being a fan. I mean, maybe being an athlete on the field, but as a fan, because it brings everybody together. So, you know, one of the things that uh I love, you know, football, obviously, and and the great and strong, courageous men who played the game and their partners and families who helped them, you know, during the weeks, the hard weeks to to get ready for the game and all that stuff. But um, yeah, just being a fan is. Uh is something so fun. So thank you, Ken, for sharing your story and uh telling us many different things that we all probably can learn a lot from. I know I can. So every time I get a chance to have a one-to-one with Ken Harvey, I come out feeling a lot better. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

Thank you guys. I mean, look at look at you right now. I mean, this is this is amazing. You're doing you're doing a podcast, you're you're out there, you're stepping out, you're doing it. Everyone can complain, they can say whatever they want, but very few people actually step up and do it. You know, and then the ones that step up and do it, then there's another level. And then after that, there's another level, but you guys are doing it. And to me, you know, you know, there would have been a time where I wouldn't have even tried because it was just seemed so far away. So you guys, you know, not you know, I'd go crazy patting yourself on the back, but you you're doing it, and and you're getting these all-star guests, so you're big time.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Well, plus also, first of all, I will say this that I've had thro what have we done our show three years over four years now? I think four years of three years of experience with you guys, and that's not easy. Keeping up with you and John is not easy, I will say, but it's worth every second. But also, I want to make my friends and the people and my family that have invested in me, I want to make them proud too. So it's like those are things that matter to me. People that have made sacrifices for me. I don't want to be a squanderer of their time, their money, their connections, whatever it is. So I better get off my behind and continue to move the ball down the field and stay away from those scary linebackers so they don't, you know, knock me down. But uh, that's really what it is. It's about, you know, again, I want to make the people that are important to me and that have spent time with me proud. And uh that's what I think that is exciting and motivates me to get up and that's probably why we write children's books, you know, because so many kids are the seeds that are planted when they're young are the fruits that come up when they're older.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

And there are a lot of kids who don't get the right seeds planted or don't get the right nourishment or don't get the right protection and all that stuff. And so it, you know, it's easy to point the finger, but how many people are actually trying to do something about it? And so, you know, we as book writers and all that stuff, yeah. Book writers. I I tend to scare people. I'm like, hey, I big old me. Now look at him, I'm like, yeah, I gotta look, I gotta, I got a book for your kid. Hey, it's free. They're like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_00 46:37

I know. Well, Ken, we're we're you know, we're gonna have to do game day at the commanders together. You know that's happening in the very near future. So that will be something fun for us to to collaborate on. But I love hearing your story. Yeah, awesome. And your kids' books and your stories. I mean, and by the way, writing a novel is really difficult. I tried it. It was really difficult. You know what? For me, it's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

For me, it was uh the first like 30 pages. I I was kind of I go through it. I kind of knew the I knew the beginning, I knew the emotion I wanted from it, and I knew the direction it was gonna go. But then like after the 30 pages, that's when you had the you know develop that habit of you know, one hour a day sitting somewhere and blah blah blah doing it, whatever, good or bad, right or wrong. So I have I don't know if my book's any good, but the cover looks good. So somebody is a good book.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

They're very good. You're a very talented judge by its cover. Yeah, you're a very talented writer, Ken. And and uh so thank you for joining us and giving us your time. And uh we appreciate it very much. So for everyone, bench to bold, I'm Marnie. And I'm Elisa. Thank you guys to Ken. You guys also thank you.