S2 EP14: Stop Calling Her Intimidating | Nesha Pai | Bench to Bold

When Nesha Pai's brother told her that his friend found her life 'intimidating,' it triggered something. She'd been hearing that word her entire life and she was done letting it be a problem. In this episode of Bench to Bold, Marnie and Alisa sit down with the Charlotte-based CPA, keynote speaker, author, and breast cancer survivor to unpack one of the most loaded words applied to successful women. Nesha traces her own path from starting Pai CPA at 40 as a single mom with one client and a kitchen table to running a fully remote firm with over 70 clients and shares how a 2024 breast cancer diagnosis was just another obstacle for someone who describes herself as a doer. Together with Marnie and Alisa, they dig into the double standard of who gets called intimidating, why relatability is the antidote, what it means to build your own personal board of directors, and why the most powerful response when someone calls you intimidating is simply: thank you.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:
00:07 — Introduction — Retiring the Word Intimidating
01:07 — Where the Conversation Came From — A Brother and a Triggered Word
02:29 — Do We Ever Say That About Men? The Double Standard Nobody Talks About
04:41 — One Client, One Kitchen Table — Starting at 40 as a Single Mom
05:28 — Breast Cancer, 2024 — Another Obstacle for a Doer
08:16 — Lupita, Citizenship & What Truly Intimidating Looks Like
11:29 — Inspiring vs. Intimidating — The Word Swap That Changes Everything
13:30 — The Highlight Reel Problem — Why Relatability Is the Answer 
19:38 — Susan Fletcher, the Wicked Witch of the Vet & Rewriting the Rules
23:04 — Your Personal Board of Directors — Who's Calling You Out?z

ABOUT NESHA PAI:
Nesha Pai is the founder and CEO of Pai CPA, PLLC, a fully remote bookkeeping firm in Charlotte, NC, one of the first of its kind when she launched it in 2011. Starting as a single mom with one client and no office, she grew the firm to over 70 clients and multiple six-figure revenues while prioritizing employment for stay-at-home moms. A breast cancer survivor, keynote speaker, and award-winning author of Overcoming Ordinary Obstacles, winner of the Multicultural Non-Fiction category at the 2020 American Book Fest. Nesha was named one of the Top 50 Influential Women in Charlotte by The Mecklenburg Times in both 2020 and 2024. She is a podcast host, keynote speaker, and fierce advocate for women building lives on their own terms. Find her at neshapai.com and on Instagram at @neshapaicpa.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to Bench to Bold. I'm Elisa. And I'm Marnie. And we have an exciting podcast for you today. We have our guest today is Nisha. And today we are going to talk about intimidating women. Intimidating women.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Never heard of that. And how are we going to retire the word intimidation? Intimidation. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Okay. Let's just jump right in.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Yes. Okay. So uh, you know, it's tell us a little bit about your backstory. Yeah, so um I've been a Charlotte resident now for 35 years, and I uh own a CPA business. Um, we primarily do bookkeeping uh 15 years now, and I'm also a professional keynote speaker. So um I have always just like kind of like you ladies, just always put myself out there in out of my comfort zone, going for um all that life has to offer.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

And I feel like doing that sometimes intimidates people, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Yes, and this whole conversation came about because uh my brother came up to me and um one of his friends started following me on Instagram, and he goes to my brother and says, Man, you know, your sister and her life and her lifestyle, it's it's intimidating. And it struck a chord. It actually struck a chord, like it triggered me. And I kind of I went off my mind, my brother, and I said, Why is it I've heard this word so many times? If I had a dollar for every time I heard this word, I'd be a millionaire. Yeah, I'd be a millionaire. And so I started digging into that and I said, Why does your friend think that? And what we see or what I've learned, um, especially with women who are out here doing something big and bold, it's it's it's uncomfortable. It's not normal. Like, do we ever say this about men? We don't. And um so it's like anytime a woman is out here, you know, taking trips, creating a business, um, creating a podcast, putting herself out there, for some reason it is intimidating to many men, but maybe also other women who aren't feeling like they can do the same. And I just wanted to kind of demystify this word.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

But don't you feel like it's somewhat of an inferiority complex? Yes. If people are intimidated by what you do, because I feel like that sometimes it just because of my um fashion influencing and my lifestyle influencing, that people, you know, I intimidate people. And I'm not doing it to intimidate people at all. I'm doing it because I like it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

You're you're trying to share your joy, right, your passion. Um, you're trying to just this is what I say. It's like we all have, we all, men or and women, have an opportunity to go after what life, right, the creator, the universe offers.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

And Marnie and I talk about that a lot. We talk about their, what do you say?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

There are doers and there are people that say, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

You know? Yes. I mean, that's it. There's a I mean, there's a whole entire uh category of people that, you know, it's hard for some people though, but I think with the intimidation thing, I think it also, you know, I grew up having an incredibly successful mom, all right. And at the top of the business world and doing things that were really in a male-dominated universe. My mom uh was the, and still to this day, the only female to be vice president, legal counsel, and general manager of an NFL team.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

So, and she's breathtakingly beautiful and smart and well educated with, you know, four different degrees and can speak three languages and all these things. So, but what I I think that my mother was definitely somebody that people were intimidated by, but I think that uh she also found that there's like a sweet spot where if you can be gracious in your success, then I think people don't find it as intimidating. They find it interesting, or they find you as a role model, or they find you as somebody that is a leader. I think that anything, the intimidation part, I think it comes from certainly people being insecure, but then there's also um it like if you can share with people how you got to that level where it's like it's not easy. I mean, the thing is people that are successful make it look easy. You know it's not easy, I know it's not easy, you gotta like keep going to get things happening.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Exactly. And I I say to people like, um, okay, I started at 40 years old as a single mom uh on my kitchen table with one client and I was making $4,000 a month in the first year of my business, scraping, scrapping. And it's like you see the highlight reels of people, right? Like just you said, like you see the success. The success. You don't see the failures, yeah, and everything I took to get to the success. Exactly. Um and you know, in 2024, I fought I fought breast cancer. And I'm like, hey, you guys, like if you want the if you want the good stuff of my life, you've got to take the bad stuff too, right? Right. Because we tend to see the highlight reel.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

And social media.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

But I love seeing the gritty underbelly of people's, you know, sweat and determination. I think to me that's more interesting than just some of the glossy stuff. Because you know that like that's relatable. I mean, I like the glossy stuff too, but but I certainly like that's when you know you're like, okay, we're all in this together. And as women, we have to really be supportive of each other. And I think if we're not supportive of one another, and sometimes people don't even know how to do that. Like, that's a learned thing. Yes, because they hear this intimidation word and then they just kind of fall in line with that versus being like, oh, wait a minute. I actually want to be intimidating, but in a good way. In a good way, in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Yes, in an inspiring way. And and it's interesting that you brought up women too, because I think that women can be, we could be our own worst enemies and tear each other down. And so I'm on a mission always to lift other women up just because of that. Um I have a friend in the African American community, and she says all the time that her worst enemy is another African American woman. And it's it's sad. It's like why?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Well, I think there's tools, but wait, I want to talk about your breast cancer and how you handled that, and here you are, a survivor. Like you, yeah, that's intimidating because a lot of people, you know, in a great positive way. So tell us about your journey and how you made, you know, look at you. You look beautiful and thriving.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

And we're here to tell the story.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

I'm a doer, and it's funny that you guys use that word because I always describe myself that way. I'm a doer. And us doers, we get shit done. We do, if I can say that word.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, you got it. Again and again and again and again and again and again.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So breast cancer was just another obstacle, and I was like, okay, we'll go take, we'll put pause, we'll put pause here on the business and life. We're gonna go take care of this. And I treated it like another job and just did it. I'm like, what do I need to do to fight this thing and beat this thing?

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Well, if you don't do it, who's going to? Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Yes, if you don't take, if you don't, if we don't take agency of our own health and our own life, and we all have an opportunity to go after our best lives. Do some people have it better than others in the beginning? Of course. If you are born into wealth or privilege or whatnot, absolutely. But I wasn't, I wasn't born into wealth and privilege. My dad came here on a boat, on a cargo ship with a dollar and a dream. And and and so I think that for people who say we're intimidating, it's like, wait a minute, you have the same opportunities. You have the same opportunities. Are you are you going for it?

SPEAKER_00 8:16

You just have to go for it.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

You know, it's like it's it's just uh uh it it's so it's so true. I mean, when I lived in Los Angeles, I had um this cleaning company, and it was this guy, Dwayne, all right. And Dwayne, I I mean, I refer to him as like the the cleaning pimp, okay? Because he had all these ladies. So it was like the opposite. Like women would call Dwayne and be like, hey, Dwayne, can you send somebody over? And I was like, but it's like the best kind, it was like a good pimp for me because he'd be like, Yeah, he'd bring over a beautiful lady and she would clean my house and it was great, whatever. So one time he sent over this lovely woman, Lupita. And Lupita came and she was really sweet and she didn't speak English that well, but she was really lovely. And at the end, um, I tipped her. I gave her $20 in cash. And she looked at me and she said, I was, she said, I'm gonna use this to buy my daughter shoes. Okay. And at that point, and I didn't have children then, I was like, you know what, just take everything. Okay. Like when you hear somebody, and so she was out there hustling and working hard to take care of family. Cut to, um, you know, seven or eight years later, I helped her and her husband and her daughter, Daniela, um, get citizenship in our country, which was a really unbelievable experience that other than having my own children, it was the most raw that I up until recently that I'd ever really felt watching this whole process. Okay, so she came to this country, did all the right things, hustled, scrambled, and now she like runs the pie factory at Costco in Los Angeles in Garland. I mean, she's a total badass, intimidating woman. All right. And it's like, and she did it. Like, you know, she was able to take what she was given and convert it into a massive career to provide for her family, and her husband has a great career. And it's like, so when you see those, like those kind of people are positively intimidating to me because I'm like, I don't think I could do that. Like I was born into a relatively privileged environment. I've been able to make something out of something, which some people can't even do. They can be born into privilege and squander it all. Yes, smart people can take that and manifest that into other things. But when I meet people like hearing your story about like being a survivor of cancer, you know, knowing some of the history about you, I'm like, those are intimidating women that I respect because they've done things that have been things that like, I don't know if I could have done that. I mean, I probably could have, but I don't know. And so I find it to be um super, I mean, in a non-creepy way, like seductive and sexy and interesting and really fabulous. And so I think maybe if we reframe the word intimidation, that uh I mean, because to me it's like I want to be around people that are intimidating in a positive way, not a negative way.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

And and everything you're saying is I'm hearing inspiring. Inspiring. Right? Yeah, instead of intimidating, you're inspiring. I'm like, that is so much more positive if someone said that about me. If a man said that about me in the dating world, thank you. I would I would take that as a compliment.

unknown 11:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Um it's like her.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

She is a great, she inspired me to do, you know, the makeup line. Oh yeah. Her mother created a tennis dress, and that's where I told you where it all stemmed from. Yes. Was creating a tennis dress and which turned into makeup. Yeah. Um, but so inspiring, she's a great connector, she's a cheerleader for all all people, women and men. Um, you know, and you don't find that a lot. No. You don't. No. People that want other people to win, whether male or female.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Right. Um, and when you find that, you have to stick together. Like, okay, you're my people.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

And even when you do that, when you're like literally in the pit of your own personal despair, even though you're not, but you are like it sometimes it just like takes a lot of energy just to be uh I mean, I was just saying, you know, looking at my counter in my bathroom, I'm like, how many supplements am I taking? I'm like, this is a full-time job, people. Okay, getting out of the house is a full-time job. Yes, yes. And I mean, I want to do it. I've got three kids and I'm a single mom. I gotta take my, you know, my magnesium and my cord of the ball cleanse or whatever, my estrogen patches. I'm like, I can't keep it straight. I took a picture of it today. I was like, okay, is this borderline not normal or is this normal? I don't even know anymore. Like, have I crossed the threshold of crazy making, or is this just what we have to do? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

It's a high continue. It's a high cost to look and feel beautiful. Right. It is a very high cost to look and beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 12:57

Well, the trade-offs. Oh my god. But inner beauty does, you know, does radiate, you know, but you know, inner beauty doesn't get you very far some days. Yeah. It doesn't get you a good parking spot. I can tell you right now. A nice smile might get you a better, you know, VIP parking spot. Yeah, you know, a hundred dollar bill.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

But I think you you you hit the nail on the head where you said, um, it, you know, are you relatable? Like if your intimidation can be relatable, how did you get to where you are? And I think more women need to share their story. Because we all have a story of how we got to where we are, right? And I think that's where it could be positive, you know, instead of seeing me you on the highlight reel in Paris or Italy on vacation, like, hey, what did it take for me for me to get to get there?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

And everything really is a trade-off. My mom would always say, you know, everything in life is a trade-off. It is. And you just have to figure out like what the pros and the cons are for that trade-off and whether it's worth it for you, whether big picture it is. I mean, it's like I lived in Los Angeles. Believe me, I was around people that lived in a small bed, one bedroom apartment and had, you know, two Ferraris because they're stupid, you know, it was like, it was so dumb. I mean, they did, they did. They had two parking spots in their one-bedroom apartment and two fancy cars. But I mean, I get it. That was their trade-off. They were like, I'll live in a one-bedroom in Encino or whatever. I like Encino, but like that the valley. It's still the valley. Yeah. Um, but and have, you know, and that was a half a million dollar car. Right. And that's instead of a half a million dollar house.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Well, as an accountant, I can relate to that because I tell people where everyone has buckets. Yeah. Okay. So do you want to go to Starbucks every day for five bucks, six, seven dollars a day, or do you want to put that money towards vacation funds? So yeah, it's a trade-off. It's a trade-off, it's all a trade-yeah, everything in life is a trade-off.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

And just and life itself is a very delicate balance of figuring out where you can put your time, your energy, if it's not adding value. And another thing my mom would always say, if it's not adding value professionally, platonically, romantically, then you really have to sit down and, you know, go to your personal accountant and say, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, reevaluate, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And I think small the older I get, the smaller my circle. And I think that a lot of stuff that I read, you know, is smaller circles or, you know, where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, I I every year I feel like I'm slashing people. Yeah. You have to, right? You know, um the more I do it every day. The more we grow and evolve, it's just natural. Yeah. You know, the fall off.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

It's it's a some people are with you for a season.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yes. And and for me, it's more important for me to be with women or just men, women, community who are also going for greatness, who are also trying to better themselves, who are also growing, healing. Those are my people. And sometimes that's where people find it intimidating. Because I'm like, look, we're all on this journey of life, and we're all here to heal, to grow, to evolve, to go for greatness. You know, I mean, we're not here for the monotony of nine to five. That's you know, it's a groundhog day, right? I feel like I don't want groundhog day.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

I want to get to the end of my life and be like, man, I lived it.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

But those are the people you want in your life. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

And those are the intimidating people.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Yeah, if people can't be happy for you. My husband told me we were just having this conversation last week. He said, Honey, if people can't be happy for you, you don't need them in your life. You know, don't worry about them being intimidated by you. You don't need them. And he's right. And like, they're not paying your bills.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

And I know so many beautiful, single, smart, successful women who are single because they cannot find a man who appreciates that, understands it, is comfortable with it. And so my challenge to men is why aren't you out there going for greatness? Why aren't you out there growing and healing and evolving? Because we women, we are ready for you to rise.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

And I feel like when I was in the dating world, men were intimidated. Yes. By you know, I'm like, I I don't know. Yes. Yeah, uh, but I was, I do have to admit, I had been I was intimidated by some of the men that I dated um because of their professional status. I one surgeon at the medical center, and I thought, you know, what does he want with me? He's a surgeon, transplant surgeon. Interesting. From Italy. It's interesting, right? Yeah. And I thought, what is and my best friend at the time, she was like, why would he not?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So we have to also change our things, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Definitely. Right. I mean, well, I think that, and you know, my mom would always, you know, she would always say, Well, like, well, of course they, you know, you you're this and you, but but it's hard for us as women to remind ourselves of that. I mean, I think that uh that we've all led, you know, sometimes I feel like Forrest Gump. I'm like, oh, but someone will tell me something, or they'll, I'm like, I I have like a bigger, better story than that, but I'm not gonna say it because it's like I don't want to be that person. Um, but I think also that knowing your audience helps too, and getting comfortable with ourselves to be able to say, okay, you know, here's what what is, here's what I've done or here's what I can do. And how does that align with whatever it is that that you're doing or that you want to do? Because that's really how good relationships, certainly professional, but definitely romantic relationships can can happen. It's like, here's what I am, and here's what I have. What, you know, how are we gonna make this together, put this together?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

And and it's interesting about your mom, like she came from a generation that I mean, it was probably very rare that a woman was at that level, right? Because in that generation, you were supposed to be at home with the kids, you know, the the housewife homemaker.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

So I'm curious, like, did she ever talk to you about how she um overcame intimidation and and being looked at like, whoa, like I think that um, like again, yes, we talked about it many times. And and certainly being in the sports world and being her dad owned the team. So I mean, she, you know, there was you know, my grandfather looked around and you know, he'll say this, and he was like, you know, there were many people that were qualified candidates for this job, but my mother was an attorney also. And at the time, you know, people were not G lawyers and and uh so he looked around and he said, She's qualified for this job, and I want a woman in this position. So I think that that's something that was really brave of my grandfather to progressive, yes, very much so. And to this day, you know, the Eagles are a very I mean, many teams now. I mean, look, in the Carolinas, we've got so many great female leaders running professional sports teams. I mean, probably more than any other, than any other uh team, you know, teams that we've got, you know, certainly in Charlotte, great female leaders. But I think for my mom, she felt that she was definitely intimidating. She was name-called. I mean, they would call her the the veterans, veteran stadium is where the Eagles used to play. They called her the wicked witch of the vet.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Wow. Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

And I mean, because she put a time clock in and she had people be accountable. Yeah. And she wanted to, you know, switch from AM to FM to actually add value to the team and get better contracts and do all these things. So I think that anytime you're doing something where you are rewriting the rules, all right, the traditional rules, whatever they are, people are gonna look at you and say, uh, you know, that you can't do whatever it is. They're gonna say whatever. But I think for my mom, she just said, I'm just gonna put my head down and keep working and look gorgeous and glamorous and keep it moving kick rocks. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I love that. I love that. But I think it's about boundaries. Yes. You know, people hate to have boundaries set. Yeah, I think that's what it was. You know, your mom set boundaries, and people don't like boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

No, they don't. And and and your grandfather was an ally. Okay, so we we need men to be our ally. Right, right. We need them to be our ally.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

And uh and um uplift us, support us, give us opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, and I also I mean, again, it's like uh this uh it part of it is just innate people wanting to do that. And the other part of it is actually, I think, calmly, as a woman, calmly and constructively communicating. And sometimes men have had experience and women too, where the communication is not calm. So they don't all they hear, and like I know even with my kids, I have two boys and a girl. And so, like, there they would say to me, Mom, why are you yelling? I'm like, because the first 10 times I was like, hey guys, it's time to get up. We gotta go, we gotta go. Come on, guys, let's go. Let's go. And by the 10th time, we're just like, you know, yeah, like we've had it. Like I've just like, I'm I'm gone. Yeah. So, but now I'm like, I I've you know, kind of tried to rework things, but it's also about us rewiring ourselves certainly in different patterns so that we can calmly and and collectively communicate. Communicate with people so that it's not just like up here. Because some people just automatically, even if you're at a low tone, I'm a loud talker. You said you know it's like all they hear is like shouting. And I'm like, I'm not shouting. I'm just small. Okay. Randio asks me that sometimes. He's like, Why are you yelling? I don't need a megaphone.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

You're like, my bark is bigger than my bite. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

And and so it's like those are just things that we're, you know, that I know that I'm consistently trying to work on so that I can be better in everything that I do is a better friend, a better mother, better business person, better leader. And that takes uh that takes time. But, you know, with good friends and and people calling you out on certain things, it's a good thing too. Oh, yeah. In a nice way.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important to have other friends who are where we are. So other female friends who are also going for greatness in their lives, like as sounding boards of like, hey, call me out, you know, if I'm doing something wrong or or coming off a certain way. And and that's important too.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

I have a friend like that. I can call her and I do call her all the time. And I'll say, please talk me off a ledge or tell me. And she will. She'll like, yeah, yeah, you're you're I don't see it this way. This is the way I see it. And it and I love to hear her perspective on it. Um, because she leads me in such the right direction. She has a counseling background, which helps, but she has been a great friend for 20 years, and literally I call her all the time and I run things past her. She's my sounding board and my husband, of course. Um yeah, I always say, like, we need our own personal board of directors.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Like, who is going to call us out, who's gonna help us get there. Um, because it is it is a journey, it's a it's a difficult journey to to go to put yourself out here, right? And and show the world like here's who I am and here's what I'm going for. And um, it's important to have that community, that support as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

All right. So the word intimidation. So I like to play around, I'm an an author, I like to play around with words and names, and I'm trying to think about how to um how does it how do we re-categorize that word uh so that it we can turn it into something where I mean, obviously you mentioned inspiring, but where being intimidating is something that uh we can all have our own uh intimidation level, but also make it a positive too.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

I don't know. I love that. I feel like um it's if we start talking about it in a positive way. I think so. Right?

SPEAKER_02 24:46

I I feel like because I like I don't think that intimidation is I think that then there's a lot of negative connotations. Absolutely. But I I think that it's it's an okay thing to be a little bit intimidating because to me that means like you've worked hard in some ways and you're are prepared and you've done your work and you consistently show up and you do it. And so for other people that haven't done those things, it would be intimidating. But I don't want to be um in a nasty way, I don't want to be intimidating, but I wouldn't mind being a little bit intimidating because of like my body of work that I've done and the women that are around me and the men that are around me that are intimidating. Obviously, a surgeon, you know, my oldest son, when he was little, he had um he had cancer, he had neuroblastoma, and the surgeon came in and that surgeon was intimidating. I mean, Dr. McAlpin, I mean, he had his his, I I mean, I lived in Hollywood, I saw people with entourages. I've never seen an entourage like this surgeon had with all the people that came in to listen to him. And he was an intimidating guy because he had been saving lives and saving children's lives, and you know, pediatric neurosurgery is no joke. Yeah. So he was definitely intimidating. But if he had come in and maybe I thought, you know, he was better at his job because he was like, he knocked my socks off. I was like, oh my gosh. Like if this guy is You want an intimidating doctor who do it in certain things, you you know, and my mom was there with me and she was like, Well, how don't we know? She asked him a couple questions. My mom's an attorney, she was, you know, grilling him, and he was like, I'm the best in the world, lady.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

My husband had a liver transplant, and his doctor told him the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Yeah, and you want Charlotte.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

You want that, you want that. He said, I knew he was the one for me. And my husband was going somewhere else, you know, and he was like, Nope, I want him. Yep. Yes, he was cocky, he was all the things, very little bedside manner, but let me tell you, he saved my husband's life. Right. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

I mean, and those are the things that like so there is something about people that are intimidating because it's like their body of work allows them. But I think it's the arrogance, people that are intimidating because it's their arrogance, that that kind of oh, the arrogance, like that would that's like what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I think that's what I associate the word with. I feel like I need to go back to my therapist and be like, why this word triggers me and I need to work on this because it shouldn't trigger me. Because to your point, I associate it with negative things. Right. But we just had a whole conversation about the fact that it's really not a negative word.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

No, I don't think I think that there it's only negative when when there's an arrogance associated with it, an unearned arrogance, because I think that as smart people that are disciplined and gritty and educated, we want to be around people that are the same, certainly. You know, it's like, okay, well, someone will say, like, what are you looking for in a relationship? I'm like, well, what certainly what I am, but more or whatever. Like and not a bum, you know, to be like same thing in a friendship, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah, exactly. Right, exactly. You're looking for the same thing or more.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

That's right. Right?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Because you want people to you want to f fly with eagles. You don't want to hang out with chickens. Yes, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Although I'd like to have chickens in my backyard. Oh, yeah, I'd like it for the eggs. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Um, but yeah, exactly. And I used to feel guilty about that. I'm like, why? No, no, but it's you know, better or more, same or more.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Yeah. But the thing is, the guilt, the I think that the guilt is is it's certainly it's generational, the guilt. Yeah, I think that it is, it's generational, and you have to kind of wean out of that feeling. It's a social norm, right? It is like feeling guilty, like, oh, you know, guilty. Women should be here. Well, part of it is this like, you know, even, you know, years ago, gosh, I mean, many years ago, when I was growing up, and this was a really good exercise, my mother took me to a child psychologist. So she, my mother's, you know, running the Philadelphia Eagles. My grandfather owns the team. We live in Philadelphia. He had a very big lifestyle. And she said, I'm worried that you're gonna, you know, go off the rails, you're gonna go to a child psychologist. So I went to this guy, and the first thing he did was he pulled out a piece of paper and he said, I want you to write down, he had me draw some things too, which were interesting, but he's like, I want you to write down some of the expressions that you hear on a relatively, you know, daily basis. And some people, it's like, you know, family expressions like money doesn't grow on trees, or we don't own the electric company, you know, those are those are things that parents will say to their children in their financial. I heard some of those too. I heard them at my own house, I heard them at my friend's home, but it was really about like the things that were relevant to me were really about like work ethic and you know, drive and and sometimes almost too much, but it was really an interesting um example of like what are my values as a young person? And so I did that exercise, and the doctor, you know, talked to my mom and he was like, I think she's fine. Like she understands work ethic, she gets it. She's not, you know, some entitled brat. And I'm sure I had very many bratty moments, but I still to this day, you know, but I didn't, but I was a troublemaker and I didn't want to be disruptive and whatever else. Um, and I think that like, so when you go back and you sit down and, you know, and I try to do it like monthly with myself, like what do I say to my kids? What have I been hearing? What are like my own narratives in my head that I can then say, okay, I can either debunk it, I can say, I need to do more of that, I need to go back to the basics, to the drawing board, because the guilt is part of it. It's like, oh, omitted on your lips, a lifetime on your hips. Like some, I mean, those were like these mottos that as girls, I know that we heard all the time. You know, my stepdad would say to me, if you eat that, you're gonna be like Crisco, fat in the camp. Oh my God. Okay. But I mean, like, that's what people said. And I love the guy, but I mean, that's what he said. It was like right.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

It was that it was that generation, it was that generation, sure.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

And so, but it does resonate, you know, still to your day, because I'm like, every time I eat something, I still think about him saying those words. I'm like, oh, you know what, I don't think I want it. I don't want to be, I don't, you know, I don't, I don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

It's damaging without them realizing how damaging it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

But in some ways, it's helpful because it's like it does create a discipline. A discipline balance it if you can, if you can take these things and make them positives versus negatives, and that's what I think that healthy and successful people do. They can take all the negatives, and there's so many that we're thrown at every day and turn it into a positive, whether it's intimidating, whether it's don't eat that food, you're gonna have a fat ass or whatever, all of those things. I don't, you know, I mean, so yeah, it's like trying to figure out, and I think that's where successful people, and I've been around a lot of successful people, and I think about like how did they get to that level? It's because they can tune out all the garbage and make it all about the positives. Like, what are they gonna do to make the positive happen today? Mindset that's yeah, it really because we all hear the same negative things, but can they reframe it? And you know, it's like I love the lotus flower, it's my favorite flower because it grows through the swamp. Same, you know, it grows through the swamp, and like that's what we're all like lotus flowers. Like we gotta grow through the swamp, and then suddenly there's this beautiful flower right there that has definitely not had an easy journey, and people are not expecting this beautiful lotus to show up on a lily pad.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Yeah, and then there you are, beautiful. Yeah, well said, so it's about taking taking that word or any of the words that we have feel have negative connotation and making it positive.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Yes. For for us, specifically for us, you know, I when I was in acting class when I lived in Los, of course I had to go to acting class because I lived in Los Angeles. I mean, yeah. I mean, you have to like, you know, develop some sort of frozen yogurt, you know, affection and go to acting class. But it was really the acting class was really great because I had a great acting coach and and went to class and you really and and it's really all about, it really is all about you. I mean, and that's really what it becomes. Like good actors can make it, even though they're, you know, self-loathing and probably incredibly insufferable most of the time. But it's like, however, you get to that scene, however, you get to that place, that's you. You can't ask somebody, be like, well, how, how, if I'm doing a sad scene, how would, you know, what what should I think about? Well, someone's gonna be like, I think about, you know, whatever the time, but you can't make that your own. You gotta figure it out. You gotta make it your own. You gotta make it your own. Yeah. And then put it into, you know, into the scene, into that moment. And it's the same thing with words, like figuring out like what is gonna be the best for Marnie, what's gonna be the best for you, what's the best for you, and obviously putting it all together. And there might be a, you know, the negative version of it and figuring out what part of the negative can I live with, but I'm really gonna try to focus on the positive as much as I can. Yeah, otherwise you'll just be in bed sucking your thumb all day. Exactly. Or some days I want to do that, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Well, and and if and if someone's using the word, that word or any word in a negative way, that's not your person. Right. Right. It's not your person anyway.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Not your audience, not your person. And you can educate them, be like, hey, listen, you know what? Thank you. Thank them.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

You know, what if you thank them, be like, I'm intimidating, thank you, yes, I am, but what does that really mean? Yeah, what does that what does that mean to you? Why am I intimidating?

SPEAKER_00 33:59

And I had to think about that a lot, you know, doing what I do online, you know, of being intimidating, you know, showing the bags and you know, all the things. And when Dre showed up on the scene to be my social media manager, she was like, You gotta let that go. Because people want to see what you have in this closet, regardless.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

And you're gonna attract your people. Yeah, you can attract your people, you're gonna attract and and and that's what I had to learn is like it's hard though. It's a balance. Yeah, it's very good. And I've talked to Marnie about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

You know, it's it's it's a balance and it's and there's a way to do it without coming across as being pretentious. Sure. Um, you know, and I've had many people reach out to me on TikTok and say, I love it. You just seem so humble and you seem I love your accent, you're so down to earth, as opposed to a lot of other content creators and the way they well, and when you put yourself out there, you're gonna have people that you hate on the wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Oh, yeah. It's just it's it goes with the territory, right? It goes with the territory. It goes with the territory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

People think you shouldn't do it because it's, you know, like we had that conversation on front.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Sometimes there are people closest to you. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Oh, a lot of times they're people closest to you.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Well, I think with anything, you know, if the pros outweigh the cons, you figure out how to make it work. That's right. And when it doesn't, when it when that doesn't, and there's always exceptions. And my mom, as an attorney, and I'm sure Randy says this too, everything's on a case-by-case basis. Everything. Everything. It is not so this unilateral picture. It can't be. It's just not. It's like everything's on a case-by-case basis. And so when you look at life or look at problems or look at at anything like that, then you can say, all right, here, this is different than that. You're different than me. We're gonna figure this out, but we want to collaborate and figure it out together. How do we problem solve together? Right. And I think part of it is that traditionally problem solving was much more of a male, male-specific thing. Okay, like the problem solving, like that direct thing of like problem solving was not so much women, although we've always been incredible problem solvers, but I think that they were more they were like just more inclined to be the official problem solver. So I think that now as women get more comfortable being able to problem solve and find solutions, then that's something that again could be considered intimidating, but it's really a positive because like look at us, like we can do a lot of things, a lot of things I don't want to do. I'm like, you know, men are way better at many things than I am, and that's great. And I'm better at many things than than men are, and that's cool too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Which is what creates the balance anyway, it does in humanity. It does. So yeah. So we're we're not retiring the word, we're actually gonna take it and make it positive.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

I think that that I think that that will be um I think that that's a good, a good thing, because then we're not uh because I feel like then we're not we're we're owning, we're we're growing into that word versus just you know putting it into the other bucket and saying that doesn't apply to me. I'm not I right. I want to be in, but I want to be intimidating in a really positive way. Yeah. That m shows all the work and shows all the things that I've done that I've been able to continue to do again and again and again.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

I think you want people to be curious about what you're doing. Yes, right, right, inspired intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

Inspired and curious, yeah. So yeah, inspiring, which you definitely are. I mean, look at how many things. I mean, so I can see why people would say, without being, of course, educated and you know, listening to this podcast, where intimidating would potentially be something how they would categorize you. But I would say in all the best ways, you're intimidated, you're beautiful, you're a cancer survivor, you're a smart businesswoman, you know, you have a family history that's really unique and special. There's so many things, and we all have that.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

It's just a matter of you know and and to all the women out here who are single and beautiful and successful and smart and all the things, like you know, this is their a message to them too. Like, hey, stay intimidating. Yeah, you know, stay own it. Own it. And if a man says to you you're intimidating, thank him. Just like you said, thank them, thank them.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Because, you know, for many reasons, either it's gonna be like they're gonna be surprised when you say that, and or curious why you said that, or you're just gonna be like, Yep, I am, yeah. You know, like well, like that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

And move on, keep it moving. Yeah, I am, and I'm glad. Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Keep it moving. I've been working hard to be intimidated. Right. I mean, uh, but it doesn't mean that I'm a jerk, it just means that I'm intimidating.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

It's not like someone gave you that, right? Gave you everything, all the success. You had to work hard for it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

And being being a jerk is never good. Like you don't want to be a jerk. Being a jerk is bad. Humility is key. Always, always humbleness, humility. Yeah, you know, being kind. You know, my grandfather would always say, civility is not a sign of weakness. Right. So, I mean, I think if you can say, Yes, I'm intimidating. Thank you. I love it. All right.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Well, this was great. That's how we're ending it. Yes, yes, be intimidating. Be intimidating. Be great.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Own it, be intimidating and say thank you when somebody calls you that. Good stuff. Yes. All right. Well, thank you everyone for uh this intimidating and very fascinating episode of Bench to Bold. I'm Marnie. And I'm Melissa, and uh we'll see you back soon.