What If Forgiveness Is Your Strength

We wrestle with John 20:23 and the uncomfortable truth that asking God for forgiveness while refusing to forgive others traps our hearts in pride and anger. We talk through what offense looks like in real life and why prayer, silence, and love often do more than retaliation ever will. 
• John 20:23 and what it means to forgive or retain 
• how offense triggers defense and pride 
• why harsh “payback” language reveals the heart 
• the false win of verbal fights and getting even 
• choosing silence as a way to stop escalation 
• forgiving without needing restitution or a public apology 
• forgiving and setting boundaries like “forgive and go” 
• separating forgiveness from forgetting and learning from the hurt 
• rejecting “karma” thinking and choosing love for neighbor 
• Joseph as a model of remembered harm and real forgiveness 
• staying calm when someone targets your children 
if find some value in our conversations, we encourage you to uh share them with friends, with others 

Transcript

Welcome And Why We Share

0:00

Welcome to The Road Travel, a Christian podcast for men, where real faith meets real life. Through honest conversations and personal stories, we help you apply God's word to your everyday journey by sharing the road we've traveled. Whether you're walking through challenge, change, or calling, this is your road. And you don't have to travel it alone. Now, let's take the next step with your hosts, Aaron Degler and Alan Hugator. Welcome back to the Road Travel. Thanks for taking a little time to join us today. I'm your host, Aaron Degler along with your host Alan Hugator. We come to you each each time just to share a little bit about our successes and failures on the road we've traveled. And each week we just want to share a little scripture with you, leave leave some thought at the ends, a challenge of how you take that into your life. And as we bring that scripture to you, we just want to also share a little bit about our thoughts over that. Each time we we find you wherever your road may be leading you, we want to find you on that road as we travel that road together. So we'll kind of get into today's episode. Well, Alan's gonna start us off with a little scripture, I think, to start with.

John 20 And Forgiving Others

1:12

Yes, be glad to. It's in the book of John. This is the NIV version. It'll be in chapter 20, verse 23. It says, if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained. If you forgive others, then yours will be forgiven. We ask God to forgive our sins all the time, but if we're holding a grudge or we're not forgiving the others of the sins against us, like people will sinned against us, and and if we're retaining those, it's saying that those won't be forgiven, they'll be retained. And so in the in the world, how how does that how does that sometimes sound? Because I think we people, you know, sin against us, we sin against them, we don't always forgive them the more we hang on to them. And I think that I think sometimes those are real easy to pick out and sometimes they're hard, but what what does that look like in the everyday world?

Offense In Real Life Language

2:24

Well, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. Now, I don't know that you've ever said that. I've probably thought it, but I've heard that a lot. And it's a very harsh statement, you know. I mean, there's a lot in there. And you know, that's people what they probably have been offended by that person, or they that person has done something to their friend or family. So, you know, they have offended you in some way if you've had that much hatred or in your mind to say such a statement. I know of a person, I don't want to describe any more, that their friend had been hurt by this, by their spouse and cheated on them. And I heard this person say, I wouldn't piss on them if they was on fire. And I thought, you claim to be a strong Christian person, and you make such a I can't even describe what kind of statement that is, but it, you know, such a bold and hateful, the hate that coming out of you. There's no love there at all. I mean, to say that you wish, you know, they was on fire and you just let them continue to burn. Because almost saying you're getting what you deserve. Yes. And liking to kind of be like sitting there watching them burn and and oh, you deserve that. Retaliation. You're and I mean, what pleasure it would be in that, no matter what that person done. And that's just a terrible statement that probably a lot of the listeners out there has either heard or said. I used to do the Bible study one time, and this guy's over 80 years old and called him by name. I said, You ever heard that? Said it a few times when I was younger. And I understand, you know, before we change, when we do accept Christ, we do go through change. It takes time, and we may have made some kind of bold statement that way. But, you know, when you just take the word when you're offended or offended, you know, when we get offended, we get defensive. Offense, defense. But when you get offended, you get attacked, is what it kind of feels like, right? So it's a feeling of hurt, uh, insult, or anger due to perceiving disrespect, rudeness, or a violation of one's standards. You feel like a victim. Somebody's attacked you when you're offended. They've got an aggressive, they've got offensively, as we talk sports term, it's a offensively against you or toward you. And you know, you won't throw up your defense real quick. But really? Should we worry about what they said? Grandma said sticks and stones won't hurt my bones. But names of the Lord hurt me. What uh you know, should we be so defensive? Do you think Jesus got offended? Well, he's got a lot of reasons to get offended. Well, I disappoint him every day. But we should not have our internal pride is where I get this. We have so much pride that in society has helped us grow that pride by saying, I wouldn't let old Aaron talk to me that way. I'd tell him what I thought of him, you know, or or take aggression back to you, or just the reply, the rebuttal that what I would have said back to you if you said something out of line, is it's totally wrong as to just letting it run off of you. So I'm not built to let that stuff run off of me. Well, there's where God comes in. God can help mold you where that don't hurt you. And because when those things are said, we really get mad at it or get angry or sad about it. And that's really kind of where we're offended comes at. Because and then, too, we want to blame the other person. Well, it's their fault, I'm that way. But really, it's not their fault. It's our fault for for feeling that way. Because we we've taken it and turned it into an anger or a sadness or something like that, and then so what then we hold on to it. But then we, as scripture said, we then expect others to forgive us. But well, I've said things to offend someone before, and most of the time I didn't ask for I didn't go up and offer an apology. And in some cases, when I did apologize, I didn't get no forgiveness. I mean, I've been wrong on the wrong side of that too. I've offended people. Most of the time it was not intentional. But there's times that I've offended people and I've been, it was intentional. I mean, I I'm probably the biggest sinner around. I'm just admitting what some of my shortcomings. But I know I've offended people and did not mean it. Kind of say a joke and then whoof went the wrong way and offended them. I've, you know, I've I've lost friends, I've gotten into fights over it, I've had all kinds of situations that's come from this due to being aggressive or making comments I shouldn't. But on the other side, when I've been offended lots of times also, and the first thing I want to do is retaliate either with words or whatever means I feel like is necessary. And there's not any that's necessary. What do you accomplish? I mean, you've seen two people get together in a word fight and it gets nasty and ugly. And who wins? Yeah, yeah. Who's gonna say, oh, I'm the clear winner? My wife can because she gets the last word in at the house, no matter what. Always. And that's okay with me now. It used to not be, but it's okay now. But who wins in that verbal? I've noticed in the last number of years that we don't let it go that far anymore. We might say something, but we don't try to be offensive back at each other or well, oh, that kind of hurts. Well, we'll kind of cover it up, but that's just because of the love that's over between us. But these other people, they'll just get into a contest to see who can say the dirtiest, nastiest thing about that person or their family or whatever, and and it accomplished nothing, or go over there and take a swing at them. And and where does that end up? That don't accomplish nothing. You know. I had a person one time, I'll give them a piece of my mind. And I thought, there ain't much there to be given. I mean, what it was, you know. Exactly. Uh-huh. I mean, it's so and and and what good does that usually do? It it the only thing it really ever resolves is we think it makes us feel better. Because I I gave I told them what I thought. But how did you feel in a few days after that, really? Yeah. When you did retaliate with words or physical, how did you feel a few days after that? I've been on both sides of it. It you don't really feel any better. If you think you do, you really have a pride problem, honestly. You're proud that you went and you said those things to someone. You're proud that you belittle them with your words, because that's the only way. You know, we're not supposed to retaliate. We're not supposed to get even with them. You don't get even. So then the question is, how do we keep from doing that?

Why Retaliation Never Pays

10:14

Oh, yeah, okay. Well, you learn again, just what we talk about, think about what will you accomplish with your rebuttal. If it's dirty and nasty and cutting and all of those things. If it's an explanation of a situation, but in most cases them people are gonna be deaf to your comments anyway. So you have to remember I have to remember that my comments back to them is either gonna put more gas on the fire and make it worse, it's not gonna make me feel any better about the situation. And sometimes silence is the best uh extinguisher. Just okay. That's fine. And just play it off and let it go and then go pray for you and them both. And you may have done something that caused them to fly off at you, but then they got offensive with the words, and and that's just terrible. It's almost like a mob mentality. When the mob starts doing things, oh, I gotta join the mob. So it's just like somebody saying, Oh, you shouldn't take that. You shouldn't do that. And then if if we choose to be silent, then not only does the person we feel, does the person that might have said that think we're weak. Well, so do the other people. Well, they're just, you know, and and I think like you said, it goes back to pride. We think then, oh, well, I don't want people to think that of me, so I gotta say something. So then it shows this other, this group, this crowd, the people tell me do this, that I did something, and that the person that I'm saying it against, well, I stood up to you. It's a sign of weakness if you don't, right? Right. In society, it is. But it's not with God. I'm gonna read this here. This is kind of a description of what Peter in 1 Peter 3 and 8 and 9 is talking about, but it teaches here that Jesus' teaching went beyond the idea of payment in kind. So when somebody says something bad to you, you're gonna say it back. You know, his idea of payment is beyond that. The offended party should forgive the offender. Well, he's the one that's offended me. Why should I forgive them? He's that person is the one that mouthed off, or Aaron's the one that mouthed off at me. I didn't mouth at him, I didn't start this, but I'm supposed to forgive you, whoever. And regardless of whether or not they ever receive restitution. Restitution can come in the form of apology, payment, whatever that you felt like is necessary to get compensated back. Hopefully, you know, and you're gonna say, well, I want my apology in front of everybody in town. I want my apology on the RM TV to apologize to everybody, or it's not worth nothing. Just forgive them. Also, it says, pray motivated by love should move us to acts of kindness toward those who offend us. I do realize that this topic today, I still struggle with it all the time. It's easy for me and a lot of people to get offended real easily. And I've the less I say, go and pray about it, and ask God to be there with me is is is my only defense. Because what I say back to that person is probably gonna throw more gas on the fire. My choice of words are not always good. So you've seen it at ball games, different things. I didn't say something to a guy at a ballgame that was being out of line in the stands and was embarrassing the people around him. He was hollering at the refs and all this, and I wanted to say something, and I said, Boy, if I do, he's gonna get defensive, and then we're gonna be into it right here. So that puts you in a hard position, you know, because I didn't like it, but I guess that's a little off topic, but it was gonna offend him. Uh-huh. Or he's gonna take exception to it. If you said something. Yeah. Uh-huh. So I had a good friend there, said, just be quiet. I said, This is hard. But I guess that's a little off topic in a way, but again, the retaliation is what we can have, whether it's in words or physical or or calling the law or trying to, you know, just chill out and try to, and that's so hard to do for me. And we have to show that love and forgive because we're gonna need forgiveness. We always need forgiveness. I had a friend that he is uh going to church at a new church for them and his family, and somehow, some way his wife had heard somebody say something about one of their children, and they got offended and they no longer go there. And I don't I understand. Because the person that said something should not have. And they didn't make a huge issue, they just quit going. And I think that's fine. I think that's not I think they prayed and they they went to God for their answers. So then so then do they have they forgiven that person? I don't know, have they? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, w we we don't know. You know. And that's really the you know, that that that's uh up to them. But but I mean, you know, sometimes those are tricky questions because it's like, do I forgive and stay, or do I forgive and go?

Forgive And Set Clear Boundaries

16:35

And I think that's for each of us decide, but you know, is it a place we want to be at? Is it just one person that caused that thing? I mean, then do I we still want to be in this environment, or do we feel that this is becoming more of a problem environment? We're gonna forgive them, that's you know, and we'll move on, but we'll just remove ourselves from that environment. So sometimes just because we forgive doesn't always mean we still have to stick around. You know, we can move on. We don't have to be around that. We don't say that happened, I didn't like it, it wasn't appropriate. So, you know, and I think also we can then set boundaries with people or places or you know, to we we forgive those, but then we can also say, Well, I don't need to be around that anymore.

Forgive Without Forgetting

17:29

I had a young man just this week ask me about how to forgive someone. He's struggling so hard with forgiving someone. He said, I'll never forget that. I said, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We're not talking about forgetting. We're human, we have a memory. We can't forget. Don't and that's where I messed up a long time ago about trying to give to go on past something, forgiving someone, is I I had to accept I'm not gonna forget the incident. I'm not gonna forget it. I'm not gonna forget kind of but I can forgive them for where they stepped out of line, where they made a bad comment, whatever that was. You know. But I I don't understand that it's nearly human impossible to totally forget the situation that happened. But I can forgive them. And that's made it so much easier for me. Don't fight the forgiveness. It you'll forget about it a lot and it'll kind of fade, as for me. It will fade a lot, the sort the incident. But the forgiveness, if you try to say, I can't forget that, I can't forget that, you you can't. It's it's we got a memory. God didn't say you had to forgive it. You're supposed to learn from it, but this one way of learning is by forgiving. And and then again, because we we have to, I don't think we're supposed to forgive. So I I agree. I think we're supposed to, you know, and I always think, you know, when we we can forgive when it doesn't, when we think about it or it doesn't get us all worked up again. You know, like like that person. Maybe it it's somebody we we say that, you know, I wouldn't, if they're on fire. But if I forgive them, like, you know, I I don't want anything bad to happen to them. So it's not like, oh, gotcha. You know, I think some people might call it like karma. I knew karma would get you. But do we really like it when something did get them? No, we're not supposed to. You know, well, that's a good deal. That's what all the stuff they've done through their life. They deserve, oh, but no, no, no, no, don't think that way. You know? Oh, I'm sorry that happened to them in their life, you know. Yeah, they hadn't always walked the line, but you know, still. No, I I know another person that's always kind of making come, oh, that'll come around to them. I'll be glad when that comes back around their way. I know you shouldn't be glad when something bad happens to your neighbor. And you're just waiting for something bad to happen. I mean, what's gonna be that's gonna make you feel good because they're going through some terrible pain of some kind. Says love thy neighbor as thyself. Mm-hmm. So you're always like, Oh, I can't wait till it comes back around to me. And I and I get, you know, that happened, bad things happen to me. Well, that circles both ways. When you do something, it's gonna come back at you, or whenever it does, somebody else is gonna come back at them. So be careful what you wish for. Or you always want to wish karma on them, you're gonna be wishing some on yourself. Because we don't say that about ourselves, so why would we say about others if God tells us, Love thy neighbor as yourself? And what good is it gonna be for you, really? What good is it gonna be when that person has a difficulty that karma comes back around? Mm-hmm. You know. You can change up the verses in the Bible to fit what you want. That eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth has a specific meaning in the Bible, but we use it in other areas that's not does not fit. That's not the intent that was used there. And I don't think anywhere is it saying about retaliation in there. Mm-hmm. And I mean, and like you said, I mean, sometimes it's instead of retaliation, maybe it's prayer for the other person. Maybe it's prayer for yourself. What did Joseph do to his brothers?

Joseph Shows Another Way

21:38

They sold him off into slavery and everything, and he came back and a pot and and they felt so bad and asked for forgiveness, and he, you know, he just took them right back, his brothers, and for he won't forget what they done. He did not forget it in the Bible. He did not forget what they done, he remembered it, but he forgave them. Mm-hmm. The Bible's full of examples. That's why it has so many stories in it. To give us examples of how so we know that other people have experienced that. And and it's it's not just the Bible, people experience that all the time. Those are just things that you know we can read and see. Well, Joseph's the example of how we should act. That's why it's in there. That's how we should be. It may seem impossible. I'm sure it was hard for him, but he let his love conquer, not his hate or retaliation or karma come over him. He says saying, Well, good, I'm glad y'all are starving. You're not gonna eat, you're gonna starve to death. Good luck. See y'all later. Oh, by the way, I'm your brother. Yeah, exactly. But anyway, that's just you know, just an example about you know, again, what what would you say in certain situations? What should you say? And thinking about that before you get in that situation, because it's gonna come upon you again. They're gonna say something to offend you. What's worse is when they say something to offend your children. And you know, we're ready to defend our children. Mm-hmm. You see a child hurt, me, a grandchild hurting. I won't step up in there in between here. Let's what's going on here. And, you know, just be calmer when you step up there. I mean, I I I agree we need to defend them, but listen, let's just watch and let's listen and let's learn before we go to saying too much. Then there's other people around you that are doing the same. They're watching you, listening to you, learning from you, whether it's kids, grandkids, spouse. Absolutely. Makes a difference. You bet.

Prayer And Closing Encouragement

23:58

Join me in a word of prayer. Lord, we pause at this time again, Lord, just thanking you for all you've given us. The opportunity for us to come together and study your word, Lord. And Lord, sometimes when we pray for patience and things come about that gives us the opportunity to exercise and learn more about patience, dear Lord. And Lord, when someone offends us, may we understand that maybe they did not intend it. Even if they had intended it, Lord, we do realize that the examples that you've set for us is to forgive. Always think about love first. Lord, we thank you for this great nation you let us live in, Lord, and the freedom for all of us is able to come together and praise you. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. And thank you for joining us on The Road Traveled. And as always, if find some value in our conversations, we encourage you to uh share them with friends, with others, so that we can share with them kind of the road retraveled as as we have found you on your road. And and then that is just our goal each week is is to share a little bit wherever your road may be. It may be a bumpy road, maybe a smooth road, maybe an uneven road, because all of us have those roads. We just don't always show it. So we just hope this has encouraged you and challenged you on the road you travel. We'll look forward to seeing you right here next time on The Road Travel. You've been listening to The Road Travel, where real faith meets real life. Remember, every step matters, even the hard ones. So keep walking your road with courage, conviction, and Christ leading the way. Until next time, your hosts, Aaron and Allen, say, We'll see you down the road.