14. Luís Dias - Legau

In this episode of Making More, I’m joined by Luís Dias, founder of Legau, to talk about what it really takes to build a product, build a team, and build conviction when the road is not predictable.

Luís and I get into the daily realities of startup leadership, what it looks like to earn clarity through action, and why “better tools” only matter when they’re paired with better thinking and stronger habits. We also talk about the difference between being busy and being effective, the importance of shaping your workflow before you automate it, and how leaders can stay grounded when the stakes feel high and the pace is constant.

Toward the end, Luís answers the signature question of the show with a response I’ll be thinking about for a while: “making more fun.” Not comfort. Not ease. Fun, as in learning to enjoy the long game so you can sustain the work and keep building with energy.

In this episode, we cover:

• What Luís is building with Legau and the problem it’s designed to solve
• Why good process matters more than flashy tooling
• How to think about sustainable execution when the work is never “done”
• The mindset shift from chasing outcomes to enjoying the build
• Luís’s “Making More” answer: making more time for fun in the process

Connect with Luís / Legau:

• Luís Dias on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-alves-dias
• Legau: https://legau.com/

Find Billy on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bigeyedfisch/ or visit his website, billyfischer.focalpointcoaching.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Making More, the podcast where high-performing business owners and visionary executives share how they're building more than just bottom line. I'm your host, Billy Fisher, an engineering leader turned business and executive coach, and I'm guided by a personal mission to help leaders create clarity, build forward momentum, and make more of what matters most. Today I'm joined by Luis Diaz, founder and CEO of Legal, a legal tech company reimagining how law firms and businesses use AI to make smarter, faster decisions. Luis has spent the past four years building a mature, bootstrapped company that's expanding from Europe into key U.S. markets like California and Texas. Today we'll talk about entrepreneurship, creativity, and the joy of building something with purpose. Luis, welcome to Making More.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Thanks so much for having me, Billy. It's always great to have the opportunity to talk about the work you're doing at Legale, my journey, and what's happening in legal tech overall. So hopefully this chat brings some value to your audience, and I'm really looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

I know we're gonna have some fun with it. And like you said, I hope it's enjoyable for the audience as well. I want to start out with kind of your origin story, how you came to be in the legal community, what you have done with that since as a founder and an entrepreneur, and just where where you got started in all this.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Okay, so I was born in, no, I'm joking. I followed the traditional path of a lawyer, at least in Portugal. So this means that I basically completed my bachelor's uh and master's degree uh degrees, both of them in law. And uh after that I started to work in um an international law firm uh based in in the UK, although I was working in Lisbon. Um and after seven years as a practicing lawyer, so I worked for that firm and then I switched to another one, both of them international. Um after those seven years um going through the the let's say the corporate ladder um or the lawyer ladder, I decided to step away and start building my own projects. Uh I've launched a few projects before Legal. Some of them were for profit, some some others were not for profit. Um, but as you said, in the past four years I've been fully dedicated to Legal as the CEO and co-founder. And I'm also uh a visiting professor at Nova School of Law where I share the legal tech unit. And um, well, I'm also a guest lecturer in in other business and law schools on legal tech and digital transformation of legal services. And um, you know, in terms of the the transition uh from being uh uh a lawyer and someone that was uh really looking at becoming a partner actually uh from you know since since the moment I started to to be a lawyer. Um and that's actually funny looking uh looking looking now uh at you know from from this advantage point uh it's funny, but uh but about that transitioning, uh I think you know, um I'm I'm really proud of my career as as a lawyer and everything that I learned along the way. Uh so when I talk about these seven years in big international law firms, um I I definitely uh talk about them with a smile. Of course, there were ups and downs as as in any you know business and in any um journey, but um definitely I'm I'm very proud of those years. I learned a lot. But uh at some point, um and and I'm sharing this because I I think this kind of illustrates a little bit the uh you know part of my journey and also something you mentioned in the beginning, which is this idea of purpose uh that is always very um you know present, uh at least for me. And um, as I was saying so at some point, uh there were two thoughts just that just kept running through my mind. And the first is that I had this strong desire to start my own thing, to build a company, to learn beyond uh the legal work. Uh usually when I had conversations with clients, for instance, the part that I loved the most was understanding their business. And then, you know, I remember vividly um having these conversations with clients about their business, and at some point um they asked me a legal question, and I was oh, hold on, yeah, I'm the lawyer here, right? So you know I need to actually think this through from a legal perspective. Um, but honestly, you know, um at some point I got a little scared because I didn't really have the time or energy to explore those interests properly uh beyond uh the legal work. And uh although I'm uh I consider myself young, but I at that time I I was feeling like, well, I'm not getting any younger. Um so that fear didn't sit well with me, and I felt like something that I needed to face and and not ignore. And the second thing that was running through my mind at the time was you know, that I I've always been someone who thinks a lot about the future with the good and the bad. Um, and around that time, uh I started noticing, at least I was thinking about the future as very uncertain, volatile, um, ambiguous, complex. And meanwhile, my own life uh felt really stable, structured. I was uh working in a very structured place, um, you know, with a lot of learning opportunities. But what I felt is that those opportunities were very incremental. Uh, it was not it was a little bit more of the same. And so I realized that, you know, probably in this world that I was seeing in the future, I would probably grow more by stepping outside. And you know, um I usually use this this idea that you know I I I might not be able or I I might not know how to build a house uh now, but uh you know, rest assured that if I'm in the cold and it's rainy, uh I'm I'm very motivated to actually build something on my own, right? So um at that point I kind of felt like I I had to leave uh the firm. And and um and and and and I I must say also that at that point uh my older uh nephew was born like a year before. Um and one of the things I I thought as well is well, you know, I have everyone in my family working for someone else. They all of them are employed. And and so when I look at the this idea of me building something, all the risks I perceive maybe come from this um, you know, inconscious uh idea of you know what is the good life? What is supposed for you to do is work for someone else. That's the stable way, that's the right way to do things. And so with my older nephew, uh I also questioned that. And I kind of felt like, okay, you know, I want this new generation of the family to also have an alternative message. Um, even if I fail, even if I, you know, in in the end, I I don't end up doing, you know, just uh, you know, uh nothing interesting. Uh but um even so uh they will have this alternative message of someone that you know had something in their hat and now it's executing and seeing the impact of it in the lives of others. So, you know, um a very not so long story short, uh, to answer your question about you know my journey and what brought me here to legal tech. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

What a great connection to the purpose, though, is this idea that this nephew of yours now you're leaving behind a legacy, not of just what you create with the product, with the solution of legal, but just with the fundamental idea that this family has entrepreneurs in it. You can go and make whatever you want in life. And so that's such a tremendous message. And I love too what you said about uh, you know, having a comfortable, a stable working environment, something that was very structured. It was kind of keeping you sheltered from um the the complex world around us, but you saw that that was that was almost too comfortable, right? It was it was not going to let you grow how you knew that you could grow. And so you had to take a tremendous leap of faith uh to realize now what what more you can become. So congratulations. I think so many of us um have a hard time taking that leap. Um I did it on a small scale with focal point. Um obviously there's a lot of structure that goes into that uh to let us be very efficient coaches, but uh still at the end of the day, it's it's a business that I own and that I operate. And you know, I have to have to be responsible enough to to lead that organization. One, it's a self-employed endeavor, but you know, I'm I'm out of my own in that way. Like you said, I'm not working for someone anymore. So it's it the buck stops with me.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yeah, yeah. And uh that that's um, you know, and I mean congratulations, congratulations to you too. But uh in my case, uh when people congratulate me, I I kind of feel like uh, you know, um I kind of feel it was meant to be uh in in my case. It was not like uh of course you need courage to do it. Uh of course you um in my case, and probably in your case, you are living aside uh, you know, probably a very stable life, uh financially and and and not only financially. Uh but um but in the end of the day for me, uh the more that I knew, you know, the more work I did on myself, the more I knew myself, the more I kind of felt this was you know the only possible way because it was the only one aligned with who I wanted to become and the kind of person I I I was, um really not not only the future, but also the present, you know. Um but but thank you anyway. And I I know, you know, uh you I know you know this is a it's a tough journey.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

It is, but again, such a worthwhile one. Let me jump back to legal tech with you for a minute, because I think for people outside of the legal world, they may think, well, that's all still just like pencil and paper in a lot of forms, and there's not a lot of technology that goes into it. But obviously that that's very naive and incorrect to think that. So so tell me about like what your first encounter with true like digital transformation in the legal space was.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

That's an interesting question. Um I think one of the first times um well, let me let me maybe give a step back. So when I think of digital transformation, I think of uh dreaming things, um people, processes, and technology. And usually from at least from my perspective, uh during let's say my tenure as uh practicing attorney, um there was most of the times a lot of innovation theater. Um, so the focus was pretty much on adopting technology, and usually the processes and the people were left behind. Um I'm not saying that this is the case for all law firms. Uh, for sure, there's very good examples uh out there of um law firms that have been uh doing a very interesting digital transformation journey, um which they have not started last year. They they've been doing it for a while. Uh, and it's an ongoing journey, so it's not something, it's not a project you you know start today and and end somewhere next year. Um but uh I think that the first time I I came across this idea of digital transformation was probably when I was part of um uh I I founded one um fintech association here in in Portugal. There were two at the time. Uh one of them I was a founding member, and um at some point uh you know the other members decided that two uh the three of us would would um would uh uh develop uh certain efforts in terms of uh regulatory technology, uh especially uh with the financial industry and and the insurance industry. And um the these industries, so the finance industry is uh I would say uh much more advanced in terms of digital transformation. So uh I learned a lot uh from that group and from the context that I made at um you know the uh during that time. Um I had the pleasure of uh working with some uh digital transformation officers uh of banks and insurance companies. And at that time I uh you know I was just mesmerized with um what they were doing. Um and I I I understood that it's you know technology, it just the the tip of the iceberg, everything they were doing in terms of changing the culture was so hard, and so there were so many roadblocks um on that journey. But uh and and so some of this I I've seen translated to uh the legal industry, uh, I would say more recently. And I think, for instance, um Aldo AI brought a lot of noise as well uh in terms of you know what I think it it kind of brought some questions that are not framed in the right way, but one of the interesting things that uh AI brought is kind of going from uh uh this idea that um maybe the uh you know the way we deliver legal services are not um should not be taught at an individual level, but maybe at a systemic level. And what I mean by this is that usually, you know, in the knowledge professions, not only legal services from the 70s, around the 70s, the focus um was more and more in how the individual can become more and more efficient rather than as in other industries, look at how the system as a whole, so your organization, the systems they have internally uh as a whole actually uh produce something that you know the client values more and in a more efficient way. Um and I think AI finally, and that's uh actually a very interesting angle brought by um well the conversations around AI, uh, is that now we are again looking at the systemic um the systems and the processes inside the organization. So a systemic perspective of how we deliver the legal services, and that's for me very positive.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Um, and um I I don't know if I answered your question, to be honest, but uh but uh um but yeah, any follow-up would would uh be if I didn't think that's perfect because now I can kind of dig in with you and understand like what is the problem that Li Gao is setting out to solve, and has that in these past four years has that had to shift with technology as far as what is the core purpose of the organization?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Oh wow, that's uh that's a complex uh question. Well, uh the first part is very simple. What we do is very simple. So we are uh AI legal assistant that supports lawyers throughout the entire process of drafting legal documents, basically. Um, and this means that we help them from the research where they are trying to find the right sources for their work, um, the planning of the their document, the creation of the document itself, reviewing the document or analyzing legal documents, and also um translation of the legal documents. And all of this we do directly within Word and Outlook, uh, which means that we are where the lawyers are, and uh we integrate also with the systems that they use to store their documents, to store their knowledge. So we make it really easy for them to actually, you know, use AI to augment their um capabilities. And to give you some data uh about the impact, because for me it's always about you know impact. Uh, I'm not a big fan of FLUV. So 82% of our users consider Legal essential to their day-to-day. They gain on average seven hours per week, and 75% of them report improved work well-being uh as a result of using uh our tool. So this is um you know something that we are really proud of, and again talks about impact and not just you know uh fluff and and and shiny things. Um on your second on the second part of the question, um I think you know, for me, I think AI will have uh a big uh massive impact in the legal on the legal industry, um, especially in how firms operate and how their business model works. And and I know, you know, over the past few decades, every time a new technology came along, people said the same thing uh about the profession. And so it's kind of you know that that boy who cried wolf, right? Um but this time I honestly think it's different. And um I can tell you why, um, but but because of that, I uh our our product you know will need to evolve and has evolved throughout time um to be future ready, to be in line with what we believe will be the future uh of legal services. And to put it short, and we can, you know, I I can explain why uh I say this time will be different, but to put it short, I think we are moving from, you know, in terms of operating model, um, from a model where the lawyer is at the center with manual production, adcount-based growth, uh static knowledge, to a model that where AI is at the center, with the the legal work being automated or semi-automated, with multidisciplinary production, systems-based roads, and with dynamic knowledge. So this this means that for instance, um our product in the beginning was kind of uh I'll call it um a co-pilot. So you are um you know the one actually drafting something, and if you need certain types of help, uh you could you know use our tool and get that help. But what I'm what we are now, for instance, is a place where you can actually delegate the preparation of first drafts, for instance, so that then you can review that uh work product. But as you can see, we are moving from this idea where is the lawyer at the center doing the drafting to AI at the center actually doing the first part of that drafting, and then the lawyer um going uh for the review or um building on top of that.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

So still not the end goal, obviously, to replace the lawyer, but just to kind of change what that lawyer. Lawyers' day-to-day looks like. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Yeah, absolutely. And um, you know, uh people often frame the question uh in extremes like will AI uh replace uh lawyers? Um but for me the reality is is much more in the West. And I I don't think lawyers will disappear, but I don't think but I do think that the kind of work lawyers do today, so the current, let's say, bundle of tasks that defines what a lawyer is, will become you know much smaller over time. So what we'll actually see is a shift, uh not not a replacement. So new tasks, new roles, and new skills that will start to make up that bundle, that that that that bundle that means you are a lawyer. So what it means to be a lawyer will evolve, in my opinion, significantly. And um tools like Legal uh basically help you go through that journey.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

You were correct to say that it's a nuanced topic, but I may be so bold as to suggest that maybe AI won't replace lawyers, but lawyers that don't use AI will probably become a thing of the past.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

I would say so. Uh I definitely agree and because I think a lot of the tasks, that bundle of tasks of the future lawyer uh will be connected with AI. And you can think of uh things like um product-minded uh lawyers, where you have basically um people, uh lawyers that are distilling legal expertise. Um and and maybe to make to explain this better, let me give a a step back. So legal work is basically about taking a set of inputs, right? So facts from you know a company that wants to acquire another company, uh that person that has um you know problem with other person, so be it transactional or litigation, it's always uh you know uh several facts, right? So this these are the this is the set of inputs. Then you apply legal expertise to to that, and we can say this is kind of an algorithm running in your head, right? Um, so legal expertise is basically legal knowledge and legal experience, and that is what produces an output, so advice to your client, uh, a memo, a contract, wherever it might be, right? And for the first time, we have a technology that can process unstructured legal data, so this inputs, the facts, right, and generate meaningful outputs, unstructured outputs. And this is the first time we have this. Um usually, you know, back in the days, these this this was the human brain only, right? So the missing piece, the missing piece here is the the layer of true legal expertise, so what's in the middle. But what what a lot of law firms are already doing, and uh some legal tech uh companies are also helping with that is you can capture that legal expertise as well. And it can be you know templates um that you have, um, you know, that perfect SPA you have, uh, that perfect template of a brief, uh, whatever you have. But most importantly, why you drafted that SPA that way, why you review certain clauses in a certain way, and that's the way you distill that legal expertise. And I think there will be lawyers that will be doing this and that will work with other professionals that are not lawyers to embed this in products, in you know, in uh AI products that make basically make this um legal expertise absolutely scalable. So, what this means is again the way knowledge is managed, so expertise becomes capitalized, not just stored in your head. Uh right, you can distill it into tools and and processes that can be reused, replicated, improved. And and so I think some lawyers, part of their bundle of tasks will be doing this, distill that legal expertise. And then you also have lawyers that will basically work on what is next. So what what what so after you triggering the button of that product and produce an SPA or 10 SPAs in 10 minutes, whatever you need to do, um, you need someone to check those SPAs to make sure you know they they are right for that specific case. And so these would be kind of legal uh operators, let's say that would do that work. So just a few examples of how you know AI will be part of what I believe will be the future of legal services. So the more you use AI right now, the more you get familiar with it, the more you experiment with tools, the more ready you'll be for um these future where you know you and AI will be uh cooperating, let's say.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

This legal tech field that Ligao is operating in, is it becoming more crowded right now in that space, just with the just the prevalence of generative AI and in so many different places nowadays?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Um I would say so. Um actually um I think you know AI um has a lot of uh good things uh for sure, in my opinion. Um but one of the downsides of AI is that you know, depending on your haptics, let's say, um, people might use it in in very um I'll call dumb ways, sorry. No, uh what I what I mean by this is that you know um one of the issues we see is that uh because now it's so easy to generate uh unstructured unstructured um data, so an email for instance. Now it's so easy to generate an email that uh everyone is sending tons of emails to um everyone. And so we see that this is uh saturating channels a lot, be it email, be it LinkedIn. Um also because probably now is the um is the time where it's it's the easiest time to start a company, probably. I'm not saying it's the easiest time to be successful uh with a company, uh, but um definitely to start, it's very easy nowadays. And and and so again, uh there's more volume of companies, but also more volume of um emails, LinkedIn, outreach by company. So uh we see very saturated channels, and also one of the things we see is uh there's a lot of competitors um coming to legal AI, and there's a lot of commoditization of legal AI. I see um uh a lot of tools that are basically Chat GPT with a different color and and logo, and that also means be it because the channels are saturated, be it because there's this commoditization of legal AI, that there's a lot of noise uh for the vendor, for the buyers. And um and and and and and that makes the market really challenging, especially a market like the the US, where you know uh you have so many people uh competing. Um and what if what what we've seen is that there's some paralysis from buyers, uh, especially if they don't have dedicated resources to that what's in the market, what you know each owner is proposing, and um and and that that makes the you know navigating the the US market um I would say very very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Your product at this point in time, how is it differentiated from those competitors? What what sets you all apart?

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Yeah, I think you know, unlike uh well, probably 98% of the legal AI players in the US market, uh at least those that we know, um we've actually been around for for a while. So uh for years now, even before ChatGPT, um during that time we've worked with thousand thousands of lawyers across Europe. Um, that experience means our product is really mature. It's been shaped by continuous feedback from real users over several years. So it's not just a flagsheet demo, it's you know, it's a proven tool that actually helps lawyers in their day-to-day uh work. And uh what we deliver, you know, it isn't just impressive to look at, it actually uh produces real usable legal output. And because we've been at this for a while, we've also had time to tackle you know some of the biggest challenges uh challenges in legal AI. So we mitigated, for instance, um hallucinations uh practically non-existent in our system, um, and every output comes with full transparency. Um, so this is something that you I think it's something that distinguishes us from others, and that it's is so because we've been uh in in business for a while. And when it comes to features as well, the depth of what we offer is really uh hard to match because you probably, you know, for instance, even if you are a Tonsor Reuters or Lexingacs client, you you have to subscribe probably five or more different tools uh from them to get the same range of functionality. And again, this is not because we wake up uh yesterday and uh all of a sudden are you know delivering a bunch of features. We've been doing this for a while and all of these features, and I think that's actually the most important part. That's not you know just the result of us thinking uh or just trying to um catch the the next flashy thing. It's the result of how we work with our clients. So from day one, our users have been actively shaping uh our roadmap. And and they have told us what really matters to them, what slows them down, uh what they wish the technology could do better. So the product we've built in the past four years comes a lot from these conversations we have with with the users. And I mean, four years uh it's a lot of time to um and and and especially with thousands of users, it's a lot of feedback coming. And that's a big part of why Legale you know feels so practical and grounded. And um, I mean, of course, it's been created by lawyers. Two of our founders are practiced law, but definitely comes also from this work with users. So I think you know, this these three things that are very practical things are uh some of the things that distinguishes us from from others. Um and we can definitely talk about features, but um, but I think it's important to understand, you know, at the more foundational level, the the differences.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

I love the uh just the awareness of having that feedback loop in your product cycle. We called it PDCA, plan, do, check, act, and repeat. And just always always try and understand what are we observing, what is what is the current condition, how do we go and make that better then? And again, that's the the the continuous improvement kind of mindset that that you all have very clearly um done a great job with. You told me you spent a little time in Chicago recently. What has the US legal market taught you as you try and just find find a way into this interesting market?

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Um yeah, I must say it was a lovely time uh in Chicago. Uh Midwest is is always um amazing. Uh the people are very, very cozy. So definitely I'm a fan of the Midwest. Um in terms of the um of the learnings, um, I mean the the US market is very tough, but um because of its scale and uh its space, I think it makes it a very, very interesting market as well for people like me and uh my founders and our team that love to learn because the pace of learning is is really high. Um I think uh some of the things we learn that that are a little different from the European market. Um and I must say, you know, although there's definitely differences, there's more similarities, uh, in my opinion. But uh of course there's there's differences and a few things we learned was you know, because of this scale, there's a lot more specialization. So what this means is that um, you know, the US legal market, and here I'm talking about the legal services uh market and needs in the US are um the volume is so huge that uh you can definitely have mid-sized firms uh that are boutiques, they are they just dedicate to uh personal injury or uh real estate or probate or you know, so there's uh a lot more specialization because there's a lot more volume. Um, so you as a lawyer and as a firm, you can specialize much more, I would say, than than in Europe. And that means that in terms of solutions, there's also legal tech solutions that cater to those specific uh verticals. And uh in our case, our sweet spot are uh full service law firms. Um so this was something we learned by being in the market in the US and seeing that um is actually the audience we can serve uh better. Um, also in terms of the tech adoption and maturity, I think the West market has uh because you have so many competitors, uh, I think the mature the tech maturity is a little higher as well. So usually people have tested uh tools, they have uh much more track record in terms of testing tools and uh having experience with implementations and and and all of that. Um many times you are replacing things they are using, not you so you are not the first tool they are um using to solve a certain problem. And uh something that really stood out uh to me in the US also is out direct and pragmatic um the buyers are. So usually they get they want you to to get to the point fast, they value clarity, uh tangible outcomes, and you know the conversations you have, they expect it to be very focused on you know what it does, but showing them, not just telling them, and why it matters to them, and you need to get there fast. So I think usually in Europe uh things are a little different. And honestly, I I really appreciate the the buyer, the US buyer's mindset. Uh I I I think uh I like when things are direct and pragmatic, so uh definitely uh well I think you all have a solution that has a very defined, very visible ROI, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:09

And so that's exactly what US buyers are gonna want to see up front and make sure that that is sound and that that is just ironclad so that they can present that to whatever leadership needs to have the ultimate buying authority and this make it happen.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Luis, I want to talk a little bit about like the organizational culture that you are building uh and kind of what the tensions of scaling this company versus preserving that company culture and your products integrity looks like. Um, because that that kind of falls on your shoulders as CEO. So what's your role in that like?

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Uh yeah, absolutely. Um, well, I I think it it falls on my shoulders as the CEO, but also it's always uh, especially on the culture side, it's always a team effort, uh, I would say. And um I mean as you grow, new challenges appear and it becomes harder to find people who naturally fit your culture. Uh, you can get attached to routines or processes or systems that worked in the past might not serve you anymore. Um, and as and as your user base expands as well, the feedback you get can become a bit noisy. Uh so it it makes it harder to keep a clear product vision, for instance. So I think you have to be very intentional internally. You know, at the team level, I think it's about building routines that keep the team um together, uh, where people feed feed off each other's uh energy and values, because it's great to have, for instance, diverse profiles, diverse backgrounds, but it also crucial that everyone share similar work principles and work ethic, and especially with a remote culture like we have, and and we believe in in a remote first organization. If you are not very intentional with with these kind of routines of your team, um it the culture definitely suffers, and we've learned uh throughout the years uh with this. Um also data plays a very important role because it gives you clarity, it helps you see when something that used to work no longer does, uh, so you can adapt instead of getting stuck in in the past. Um, and when it comes to the product roadmap uh and product vision, um we try to stay focused uh on impact and you know building for where we can create the most value for the largest number of users. And regardless of what's trending on social media or whatever it might be, uh our north star our North Star is is still to this day what we hear directly from our clients and users and and and and may have the the you know the the the the biggest impact in their lives. So but that's what keeps the culture and the product grounded as we scale. And you know, of course, being close to the to the users, being close to the clients, it's it's very important. And as long as you know they are staying, saying to us that they are getting real value and real impact, you know, we are growing in in the right direction. I think that's that's very important to you know keep keep your mind focused on that because there's so much noise around you when you are building something.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

And then you personally, with your growth ambition and your entrepreneurial spirit, how do you balance still that uh wanting to be creative and actually drive innovation yourself within the organization?

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Um yeah, I think you know, in my experience, and I'm not some some sort of guru or or something like that, you know, but in my experience, uh companies often hate ceilings uh that reflect the founder's own ceilings. So I think before you think of the business and even take the business to the next level, and we are very ambitious, as as you say, um I I really believe you you you need to look inward and be honest with yourself, managing even domesticating your ego. Uh I'll say it's very important as well. Stay open to learning. And for me, it's been you know really it's been really important to understand how I work, what drives me, what truly matters to me. And um and that reflects a lot on how the business is run, how uh the team is built, um the kind of relationships we build with our partners, with our clients, with our team members, uh, the community as well. And uh at the end of the day, it's for us, it's not about growing at all costs, it's about having impact. And we are ambitious, of course, and we want to grow, but the goal is isn't growth for its own sake. It's helping as many lawyers as we can improve how they work and how they feel about their work. And that's actually what gets me out of bed every morning and the team. And I I, you know, by staying grounded and close to them, that also uh fuels my energy, my creativity. Um, and also, although again, we are remote first as an organization, um, having these routines with my own team, uh, that's also something very important to me and also fools a lot of this energy and creativity. Um, so yeah, I would say definitely working a lot on myself and um making sure that we are close to our clients and partners and that we have our team together. Um, all of this kind of makes the perfect cocktail for me and keeps me running and creative.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yeah, definitely. Excellent. Luis, the the signature question of the podcast. Here it is. At this moment in your life and career, making more blank is most important to you. So fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Um, we we we talked a little bit about this uh in another conversation, and uh I'll I'll keep uh my you know my thoughts on this. Um at this stage I would say making more fun is what matters most to me because um you know building a company is a long-term play, and if you don't learn to enjoy the process, um it really becomes very hard to sustain. And there are ups and downs all the time, and but I I try to see them as just part of a bigger journey, and I think it's a privilege to be able to go through that process and to learn every day and uh to grow from the challenges and also work with you know the people that surround me, be it my team, clients, partners, all that. So for me, the process um matters way more than than the results. And so making that process more fun, uh making sure I have moment moments uh of pure fun and creativity throughout my week, that's important to me. Um and and I think the rest comes organically, you know. Um, if you put the energy, the focus, the dedication, um the results come organically from that process. And if you have fun um, you know, doing it, you'll you'll have more energy, you'll have more focus, you'll be able to dedicate more. So so yeah, um making more fun.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

And the next time you're in Chicago, let me know. I'll have to make a trip up and meet you so that we can have some of that fun together with maybe a maybe a Midwest cocktail.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

I love it, but yeah, let's definitely do it.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

And all right, where can where can listeners learn more about legal or if they're from the legal community, where can they try a demo and and help just understand uh where you're at in your journey?

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Yeah, uh well, but before that, uh thanks again for for having me and uh chat. Uh really enjoyed the the questions. Uh, I think it's always nice to have these thoughtful conversations, and uh I hope the audience uh found it valuable. Um if people want to learn more about Legal and what we are doing, the easiest way is probably through our website, legal.com. And um I can share the links with you uh so that you can pass them along to your to your audience if that makes sense. And um and if you'd like you know uh to connect personally, uh I'm always happy to chat about legal tech, future legal services. So just reach out to me on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Fantastic. And for those listening that don't have uh Luis's background uh to spell that correctly, that's L-E-G A U.com. Legal.com. Luis, a great pleasure to have you. It's been just a tremendous conversation with you, and I thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Thank you very much, Billy. It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Thanks for listening to Making More. If today's conversation sparks something in you, let's connect. You can find me on LinkedIn and thread at coachfisherfpt or by visiting billyfisher.focalpointcoaching.com to learn more about how I help leaders create clarity, build momentum, and make more of what matters. This recording is copyrighted by Engineer Consulting Incorporated. Until next time, take care.