"Speaking up and listening up" - Rima Alameddine of Becton Dickinson

In this episode of the Land and Lead podcast, Dr. Josh Elmore interviews Rima Alameddine, Worldwide President of Peripheral Intervention at Becton Dickinson. Rima shares her career journey, emphasizing the importance of clarity, listening, and prioritization in leadership. She discusses the dynamics of organizational change, the differences between newcomers and incumbents, and the significance of trust and values in effective leadership. Rima also reflects on her experiences with wins and setbacks, offering insights into navigating high-stakes roles and fostering a culture of innovation and growth.

Transcript

Dr. Josh Elmore (00:00)

Welcome to the Land and Lead podcast, where we explore the real stories behind leadership transitions, the setbacks, strategies, wins, and moments of growth, all aimed at helping other leaders land well and lead effectively. I'm your host, Dr. Josh of Court Street Consulting. 

Today we're speaking with Rima Alameddine Worldwide President, Peripheral Intervention at Becton Dickinson. For over 27 years, Rima her professional life to research, develop, and bring to market innovative solutions that help clinicians address their patients' needs and improve their lives globally. With a multi-culturally diverse and experience in developed/developing markets and a genuine passion for developing teams, she is currently leading the peripheral intervention business in Becton Dickinson Company, or BD, an innovative journey of growth globally. 

Her last role was worldwide of the urology and critical care business at BD. And prior to BD, she worked at CR Bard, GE Healthcare, and Fresenius HemoCare, with responsibilities covering product management, international sales, business unit director, chief marketing officer, and vice president and general manager in charge of global and regional P&L businesses. 

Currently, is a member of CEOs against Cancer Program the American Cancer Society to raise awareness, funding, and to work towards specific health impact goals. As well as a of the AdvaMed Subcommittee for the Women's Health Equity Initiative to raise awareness regarding medical technology to treat women's health conditions and reduce inequities related to the need to diagnose, research, and improve health outcomes for women. At BD, Rima is also the executive sponsor for WIN North America.

Rima as a doctor and biochemistry from Universidad de São Paulo and has a marketing degree from ESPM in Brazil. She speaks five languages, which she practices while traveling with her family to either discover new places and tastes, to scuba dive, or to register their memories in beautiful pictures around the world. 

Welcome to the show, Rima.

Rima Alameddine (02:02)

Thank you, Dr. Josh Thank you. Thank you for this long introduction. I think it translates the years of being in the world.

Dr. Josh Elmore (02:06)

Sure, yeah, and we're excited to hear about those years moments in them. So, jumping into the conversation, can you share a little bit about your background how you landed at BD?

Rima Alameddine (02:22)

Of course, I'll start saying that I really never planned to be where I am now. Not that this is a miss. I believe there are different people. Some plan their entire careers and know exactly where they want to be and when. And some don't. Neither is wrong. It's just different. And I'm definitely one who have not this way. 

My only goal was always whenever I landed in a role to make sure that I was the most successful in it and making sure that my team was the most successful and that this would naturally take me somewhere else. And that's how it has been my entire career. as you said, so I currently serve as Worldwide President for Peripheral Intervention, one of the businesses at Becton Dickinson.

And this is where I lead global strategy, innovation, and commercial execution across diverse the past 27 plus years, I had multiple roles, as you shared in your introduction. But they were spanning from individual contributor to leading sales and marketing organizations. From managing one portfolio to managing entire businesses with full P&L responsibility, in developed, developing markets. I've acquired businesses and I have been in a business that was acquired because there's always a first time. And this is how I got into BD through the acquisition of CR Bard in December 2017. That’s how I landed at BD.

Dr. Josh Elmore (03:36)

Mm-hmm. Okay, and so how many roles have you gone through at BD?

Rima Alameddine (03:48)

At BD, including the one I had at Bard, this would be my fourth role. So, I started in Bard in 2015 as vice president and general manager for the Latin America region for the whole business, for the whole company. Then I was actually, sorry, fifth role. Then I was a segment after the acquisition, they created the BD interventional segment, and I was leading it in Latin America for a year and a half. 

And this is when I was invited to come to the US with my family and lead the oncology platform, a global platform in the oncology, in the business that I am president now. I stayed two years and a half in this one. And then I went to be president in the urology and critical care business. And last May, the company asked me to rejoin the business, Peripheral Intervention which we call PI, as president.

Dr. Josh Elmore (04:40)

Okay, so a little over a year and change in the current role. 

Rima Alameddine (04:43)

Yes.

Dr. Josh Elmore (04:45)

Okay. And so, you tell us a little bit more about BD and that trajectory across roles, right? It sounds like you've gone through quite a few and had some transitions there. So, what'd that look like?

Rima Alameddine (04:55)

Yes. So, starting with BD, BD is a company that's over 20 billion revenue. It has multiple segments, the medical segment, life science and interventional, which I am part BD. But BD has been going through a lot of transformation. It started with several ⁓ significant and relevant acquisitions. Started this with the acquisition of CareFusion. So, actually let me pause. 

BD is a company based out of New Jersey with over 125 years that was a pioneer in many of the spaces that it plays. I'm certain that everyone has used the product from BD either from a syringe or for a blood draw to exam lab exams or even to the vaccines in COVID. All the syringes that administered these vaccines were majority were from BD.

But everywhere you go to a pharmacy automation, a biopsy, diagnostic exam, all of these are within BD's scope. It went through a lot of changes in 2015. It acquired the company based in California, CareFusion. In 2017, acquired Bard. And this we're talking about $20, $24 billion acquisition. So really significant in the industry.

Dr. Josh Elmore (06:11)

Wow.

Rima Alameddine (06:13)

And since then, it has done a lot of different acquisitions in the different segments, which leads to the last one. Last ones we had was with APM, which is a business that was acquired from Edward Life Science with advanced patient monitoring. And this led the company to revisit our entire portfolio and decide, OK, what we should be focusing on.

So, most recent news about BD, there is a divestiture of two businesses in bioscience and diagnostic systems. So, we can concentrate more on portfolios that are more similar within the medical segment, managing access and also medication delivery, interventional, which remains untouched, which is the business that I, one of the businesses that I lead with an interventional segment and also connected care. That's a big emphasis of the corporation.

And a long answer, but to my career, how it has like made it throughout all these changes. think the most important aspect of it is, first, you need to be certain and comfortable with the company that you work for and that your values match the values of the company. Because at the end of the day, doesn't matter which really is the responsibility in terms of portfolio.

As long as you believe in the company's purpose, as long as you're aligned with the company's values, you can have different responsibilities. I constantly say I am a tool of the company now. So, wherever they need me, if it makes sense to my family, obviously I'm married, I have a 14-year-old daughter, but if it makes sense for me and my family, I'm going to go even if when I am not expert in the portfolio, I'm not knowledgeable about the market, these things I can learn.

Dr. Josh Elmore (07:59)

Hmm. And so, it sounds like that's a strategy, matching your values against the organizations. And what other strategies have helped you navigate transition?

Rima Alameddine (08:09)

I would say first of all is clarity. Clarity in the vision, clarity in communicating this vision and ⁓ understanding where you want to go. So having the vision itself very clear to you and to your teams, to your organization, where we want to go. Everyone is clear, okay, why we want to go there, but why we're doing this significant change transition?

Is it because we are the most expert in this space, in this industry? Is it because we have the right capabilities? Is it because it's a high growing mark, fast growing market? Is it because we can differentiate ourselves and be unique and really win because it's our right and our willingness? So having the clarity of communication, vision, understand the why behind the what. The other thing I would say is listening, the strategy of listening to understand where you can really prioritize.

So prioritization for me is a must, especially in so dynamic markets and leading global businesses, global P&Ls, it's unrealistic to believe it's going to be able to accomplish everything. Or maybe you can, but in phases. So, what comes most? What are the needle movers to the company, to the business? What are the things that are most significant to drive the business growth?

So prioritization and focus for me, it's a big I don't know if I call it strategy, but it's a mandate.

Dr. Josh Elmore (09:40)

Hmm. And it's really curious, right? So, you mapped listening onto prioritization and the tension of not achieving everything, hence prioritization. So how do you listen so that you can prioritize? And then how do you manage your priorities with the tension that you can't achieve everything?

Rima Alameddine (10:01)

So the listening, we say a lot at BD, speak up. That's like a mantra, speak up, make everyone comfortable to share their opinions. And I constantly say speaking up only is not enough. It's speaking up and listening up. And when someone speaks up, if I have someone in my team speaking up, say Rima, I'm not sure I agree with this, when I am not completely convinced that this is going to work. And I'm not reacting to it at all.

At some point, this individual is going to stop speaking up. So speaking up and listening up. So someone spoke, they spoke, they shared their vision and I'm like, okay, I assessed and I'm saying, okay, know what? Great input. It makes sense. We're going to pursue it. We're going to do more work. We're going to assess it, invest more time in understanding it. And maybe how we're going to pursue and how we're going to move on. 

Or, we have done this work. We understand it's not going to take us where we need to be. And that's why we are not going to pursue it at this point. So this is the listening up. And for me, the start by listening, it's not only to your teams, but your teams, to your customers, to stakeholders, and to the market. We live now in times that our markets are so dynamic. There's so much going on. Every day there is a new thing. So it's really about listening and understanding where this is going. 

And I would say even the prioritization, you know, we tend as leaders in the new business to want immediately to fix or change things. And again, it's a tough one because we believe we are supermen, superwomen, but we cannot do it all. So, it's really about understanding the context first. For me, it's fundamental and then be able to make decisions. And when you understand the context, understand what is most critical to the business, what's going to be a big needle mover, because you can make a lot of effort. You can make a lot of investment and still not be relevant or impactful to the business.

Dr. Josh Elmore (11:59)

Yeah, right, so context as fundamental. And when you navigate that new context and you come in, superwoman Vibes, you know feeling that kind of sense of I want to kind of fix things. How do you how do you hold that back a little bit so that you can kind of do this work, the strategies and have them be effective? How do you kind of balance that want to fix, but also need to kind of hold on tune in?

Rima Alameddine (12:30)

It goes back to what I shared in terms of the strategy of the clarity and communication. Because how do you tell someone in your organization that what they are doing is not the priority of the moment? Oh, am I going to lose my job? Is this what I'm doing even important? Do they care? Are we going to have more? Am I going to have investments?

So, I usually say like, it's like a tree, you know, if you have a tree and the sunlight is going at this in the morning till noon, the sun is on this side of the tree. It doesn't mean that the other side is dead. It's still living, it's still breathing, still making photosynthesis as much as it can, getting the whatever it can from the sunlight, but it's still alive. 

But the sun goes and after noon, it starts shining on the other side. Maybe this is not in the span of the day. Maybe this is in the span of a year in a business environment. But today, what is priority as a business, we need to focus on those things that will help us grow sustainably and fast. And with that, it will allow us to get more investment, more clarity, understanding, leadership in the marketplace. 

And this will fund and enable other investments that at some point were considered secondary. Because now they become the priority. So that's why the prioritization for me, it's must is you cannot accomplish everything or you could if you had unlimited resources, human and dollars, human resources and dollars. And unfortunately, that's not a reality in the businesses that I have worked I dare how many of them have this ability, right, to invest unlimitedly.

Dr. Josh Elmore (14:14)

Super powerful practice, this idea of helping people contextualize their present moment and where the priorities are. And I wonder, right, because in change and helping people along in that process, does having evidence for why you need to do something and giving folks the rationale.

In your present role, if you could think about, it's May of last year, you're just past a year, you've done transitions in this organization before. You’ve done transitions between organizations as well, and even an acquisition, into BD. How is a transition different from being a newcomer into the organization and being somebody who has a reputation?

Rima Alameddine (14:56)

That's a great question. I think the transition for a newcomer - you came for a reason, right? People who made a bet, made an investment on bringing you, but you still haven't proved yourself. Like what your experience, your past, your knowledge, your career brought you here. But now the page is turned. Now everything really starts.

That's the difference. And probably it would be more difficult for a newcomer who has to prove themself, right? In a new environment, in a new corporation. For those who have been transitioning, and there is also some knowledge and history, I think it's a little bit easier because people, although we have short memories, but still people remember, hey, I've done this.

I've dealt with similar challenges in the previous business I was leading. So, there is this, the reputation within the company makes it easier for those who are transitioning within the same context versus those who are just coming new. For newcomers, it's a matter of ⁓ proving yourself now and paving your way. 

At the same time, it's also, it might be interesting, because it also allows you to be very creative without biases from the past. Because for someone who has been in the company, like I take myself, I've tried something in my previous role as Worldwide President for Urology and Critical Care. I’ve been there, I've done that. I know what worked and what did not work because I know what was the company's response to that. So, maybe I won't try them again here.

I try, I will think of different things, which can be time gain. You can gain some more time. But someone who has just joined the company and is not familiar with, have not had this experience, has not had this experience in the past, there's nothing preventing them of trying. And maybe with a different saison, right? Maybe with a different spice there, which makes it then maybe successful. So there are the two ways, I would say. There are the two possibilities. There are pros and cons in everything, and this is not different.

Dr. Josh Elmore (17:01)

Yeah, that's ⁓ really interesting because, ⁓ you know, thinking about it from that perspective of, there's value in both directions, right? No bias if you're new or accelerant because you've tried things if you've been in the organization for a while. But that kind of tweak on it where if you're new, you might be able to get away with something that didn't work for somebody who has been in the organization a couple of times because of the saison. 

Rima Alameddine (17:31)

Correct. Exactly.

Dr. Josh Elmore (17:34)

That's really powerful. So, thinking about your current role, are some wins and setbacks and how did they manifest?

Rima Alameddine (17:39)

You know, I say our, my job description is probably a similar job description of the majority of the presidents of businesses. We need to grow our business, we need to increase our profitability, we need to ensure that have a healthy pipelines in innovation, right, in portfolios, that we need to develop new markets, get new accounts, all of that.

It doesn't mention though the most challenging piece of leading a business, which is addressing the culture. Either shifting the culture, changing the culture to that will drive the business forward. And I constantly say that there are two types of people, the yes butters and the why notters.

The why notters are those whenever you present a new idea, a new plan, a new thought, people say, wow, that's interesting. We haven't looked into this or we haven't looked enough. Why not understand it more? Why not assess it? Why not look into it and maybe get a different solution? The yes butters are those who say, yeah, we interesting plan, yes, Rima, but not sure if it's going to work.

They haven't even tried. They killed it before they tried. It's a good suggestion, but I don't have the time to do it. I don't have the resources. I need more headcount to implement it. I need more dollars, more budget. The yes butters, they're killing it before it even starts because they don't want to do it.

So, I would say the wins, so answering your question about the wins and the setbacks. The setbacks is when I didn't have clarity of those, who they were. Were they really, why notters, but they actually were yes butters, but they were just playing the game to see where this would lead. So not having clear differentiation of some of the organization.

So it needs time. And the wins would say it's also about people, understanding exactly what is needed after listening, taking the time and respectfully listening to customers, to stakeholders, to our teams, understanding what has worked what has not. 

But then, making changes. So, the wins are related to the changes that I knew from the start that were needed and acting fast on making them. And the setbacks were actually related to things that I believed had to go that way, but I was still in doubt maybe for misses from my side, for not having the clear⁓ data to help me drive decision and taking too long to execute on them.

Dr. Josh Elmore (20:21)

And thinking about kind of these wins and setbacks and, you know, just to kind of go back to that idea of being a newcomer versus being an incumbent in the organization the why notters and the yes butters, does that group change in its demographics if you exist in the organization versus coming in fresh?

Rima Alameddine (20:45)

Interesting. It's a great question. I'm taking time to ask, like in the environments, in the companies that I have led, that I have been with this mindset for so many years, for over decades, I'm thinking about the times where I am coming new versus places that I've been before or that I was familiar. 

I think maybe it's more difficult for ones who have been in the company to deal with that. Because for those who are newcomers, maybe that's an even easier task of separating those and taking these actions. Because you never know what to expect from someone new who's coming. 

It's a complete reimagination, right, of the leadership. What are their aspirations? What are their goals? How are their operating mechanisms, how they operate on a daily basis? How willing are they listen, to understand? And how fast they own the shoulders, and how much there is pressure? Which is in every way, I wonder if there's any other company that is not asking, pressuring for results soon, right? But are some companies that are more patient of that. But even when a company is more patient, doesn't mean that the leader is.

So maybe for newcomers, it might be easier in this aspect too. At least I'm thinking here, looking back in my in the past, probably 15 years where I had more like leadership roles, leading organizations, how it was. Probably it was easier when you were a newcomer because...yeah.

Dr. Josh Elmore (22:25)

The unknown, the unknown factor. 

Rima Alameddine (22:25)

The unknown. The unknown factor. Yes.

Dr. Josh Elmore (22:30)

Yeah, it's, you know, determining kind of what you're walking into, given what you're, given the context, right? You know, how do you navigate that? And what can you expect? Maybe you get a little bit more freedom, right? Because you're new. 

Rima Alameddine (22:46)

Exactly.

Dr. Josh Elmore (22:47)

Super, super powerful, thank you. 

So, a question I really like to ask all my guests. You’ve been in the role for 15 months, just about 15 months now, thinking about your current role. In the 1980s, John Gabarro ran a few studies focused on general managers and presidents as they pursued new roles and wrote the results in the book, The Dynamics of Taking Charge. 

Gabarro explained that an executive has fully taken charge when they have mastered the new assignment in sufficient depth to be managing the organization as efficiently as the resources, constraints, and the manager's own ability allow. Thinking about this definition, where 100 % is having fully taken charge in your latest assignment, what percent would you say you are at now?

Rima Alameddine (23:29)

That's a very unique question. I don’t know if a leader knows 100 % of a business. And as much as they know about their business, we as I said, live in such dynamic global environment, how can you keep up with everything? 

So, with that in mind, I would say probably I'm around 80, 85%. Obviously, I've developed a deep understanding of the business. I know our portfolios. I know the markets. I know the customers. I know how our internal dynamics are. And with that, I'm using all of this knowledge to shape our strategy and how we execute and how we measure it, right? Execution is having a strategy, strategy implementing and measuring to see if it's effective.

But this full mastery of the business, it's constantly a moving target for me. I would be lying to say that I know it all as it is today because in the next minute, I'm not. So, the business is evolving, the markets are shifting, there are new challenges every day. 

So, with that said, for me, what really matters is not really knowing all of it, 100%, but building the systems, the network, the teams, that allow us to adapt and lead and make sure that they also know how to respond to that. So, it's really not about knowing everything, but it's about asking the right questions. It's about empowering the right people, having the right people in the right roles, doing what is needed for the business, empowering them.

It's about staying close signals that really drive change. How you are monitoring that. As I a strategy is successful when you implement, when you do initiatives, you measure it and you know that it's working. So, what are the signals that allow you to understand that you are driving change? How are you creating clarity? How are you enabling agility? How are you ensuring that you have aligned purpose and performance?

So this is for me what it is about it's... I am less worried of knowing 100 % of the business, but ensuring that the whole system works. I hope I've answered your question.

Dr. Josh Elmore (25:48)

Sure, sure. It reminds me back to your idea of speak up and listen, right? If you, if you, to be able to change and to do things and stay agile, right? You need to speak up when something's happening and you need to listen to tune in and know that, you know, it's not always going to stay kind of this even keel all the time. It's always going to be different. And so that strategy of speak up and listen sounds like it aligns very well.

Rima Alameddine (26:11)

That's exactly right.

Dr. Josh Elmore (26:12)

Yeah. So thinking about all of the things that we've chatted about and even more, is there anything that we're missing from our conversation that you feel is really important? I'm going to ask you about what you'd like to share with leaders who are entering new high stakes roles, but is there anything is jumping out to you that caught your attention during our conversation you'd like to share around transitions?

Rima Alameddine (26:34)

No, I think I've touched in many of the points, but it's really about listening. It's like how I think about what it is about listening. It's what's the currency that you have with your team. And for me, this is trust. I am the type of leader who say like, if you are part of my team, if I chose you or I came to a team and you're already part of it, you have my trust from minute zero.

Don't break it, but don't break it.

I'm not the type of leader who says, let's see how it works and it starts building the trust. No, you have it. It's granted from the first minute that you start working together, but it means that you need to be careful not breaking it. Then having the mission clear. Lean into your strengths. I also mentioned this in the beginning, so probably a summary of all of it. 

There is a reason why you are in this role, but also acknowledge what you don't know. And there's plenty that you don't know. So we need to be confident and humble at the same time. We need to be strategic of what we address first. You cannot solve everything at the same time. So you really need to focus on what are the things, maybe there are quick wins that build credibility or that allow you also to lay the foundation for long term.

Another one for me that's big is values. How anchored you are with your values. I say that I am very fortunate. I've always worked in companies that their values aligned with mine. I'm not going to change my values to adapt them to the company's values. They need to match because this is important. My values are non-negotiable and they are part of who I am as a human being, as ⁓ a mom, as a wife, as a professional, as a leader.

So, these are my values. So you need to stay anchored in your values and make sure that your decision reflect the organization values. That’s why they need to be matching. 

And probably last, like build a learning system. Make sure that you are creating mechanisms to ensure that your teams are constantly learning, getting customer feedback, the market signals, internal data. Like the learning system is about, laying out a strategy, implementing it, measuring it. You talk about continuous improvement. How can you continuously improve if you don't know if it's working? You need to measure.

Dr. Josh Elmore (28:47)

And, you know, I guess I could ask you about what else you'd like to share, because you said, that's a lot of value there. I think, especially, you know, from the various levels, right? The individual, my values, the team, making sure that folks know that they have your trust. But then also the system level, right? Like a learning system and that iterativeness. Any other advice you want to share with leaders?

Rima Alameddine (29:12)

Probably last one, be intentional, be intentional in what you do, but be careful. Not so intentional in a way that becomes robotic.

I have interacted with professionals that sometimes I struggle to call them leaders because, a leader is someone who has followers and I don't want to follow someone who is thinking of every single step or every action because someone is observing and they're to what they're going to be thinking, what they're doing. No, I want someone who's taking the risk, someone who is doing what they're doing because they believe in it. But also being intentional about it.

Dr. Josh Elmore (29:49)

I love that. And I mean, it makes total sense, Leaders are people who have followers. of course. But if you're put in a place of formal authority, don't necessarily need followers because you are formally placed there. But the challenges that you're touching on, that I agree with fully, is that no one's going to follow you if they don't believe in you and they don't believe in the things that you're building and the vision that you're setting forth, as you mentioned in the beginning of the conversation.

Rima Alameddine (30:11)

Exactly.

Dr. Josh Elmore (30:13)

Super powerful, Rima. Thank you so much. 

Rima Alameddine (30:15)

Of course.

Dr. Josh Elmore (30:16)

Is there anything you'd like to share that's coming up for you as we wrap up our conversation?

Rima Alameddine (30:21)

I don't know what's coming up for me. I know that I'm working hard to make the business that I am successful. We have been going through a lot of transformation lately. And now is when things start to show up if this transformation were really effective. So I'm sure there's something reserved for me in the future. I don't know what it is now, but I'm not in urgency of going there. I am.

I need to be happy and satisfied in the role that I am in, which I am. I want to make sure that I have it right, that my people see it also and agree and believe in what we're doing. And this will drive us up and forward. So, wherever it takes us.

Dr. Josh Elmore (31:04)

Empowering your people. Powerful. I love it. 

Rima Alameddine (31:05)

Always.

Dr. Josh Elmore (31:06)

Well, Rima, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. 

Rima Alameddine (31:10)

Of course.

Dr. Josh Elmore (31:11)

So many great tidbits that I know folks are going to take away with and put into practice.

Rima Alameddine (31:15)

Absolutely. Thank you. was a pleasure. Thank you for the great questions.

Dr. Josh Elmore (31:18)

Certainly. Thanks so much for listening to the Land and Lead podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Josh Elmore. Tune in next time for more stories from leaders navigating high stakes role transitions.