"Observe, Listen, Ask, and Act" - Carlos Ayala of Mentora

In this episode of the Land and Lead podcast, Dr. Josh Elmore sits down with Carlos Ayala, founder of Mentora and former Chief Workplace Connection Officer at NiSource. Carlos reflects on his leadership journey and shares lessons on navigating transitions, culture change, and people-centered leadership. The conversation explores humility, emotional intelligence, psychological safety, and Carlos’s “observe, listen, ask, and act” philosophy. Leaders entering high-stakes roles will gain practical insight into aligning strategy, culture, and people while building trust and momentum during change.

Transcript

Dr. Josh Elmore (00:00)
Welcome to the Land and Lead podcast, where we explore the real stories behind leadership transitions, the setbacks, strategies, wins, and moments of growth, all aimed at helping other leaders land well and lead effectively. I'm your host, Dr. Josh Elmore of Court Street Consulting. 

Today, we're speaking with Carlos Ayala, founder and managing partner at Mentora and previously vice president and chief workplace connection officer at NiSource Carlos is widely recognized for fostering inclusive, people-centered organizations, driving cultural transformation and strengthening communities through strategic leadership and talent development. As the founder of Mentora, Carlos partners with organizations to empower their leaders to achieve sustainable growth by aligning strategy, culture, and people, driving meaningful transformation from the inside out.

With more than 20 years of experience spanning HR, marketing, retail, and consumer management across domestic and international markets, Carlos has held leadership roles with several Fortune 500 companies, including NiSource, Honeywell, and Hallmark. His career has centered on creating and optimizing workplace, retailer, and marketing strategies to drive the bottom line.

Recognized as one of the top energy officers, Carlos is celebrated for his commitment to developing talent pipelines and advancing inclusion at every level of the organization. led international business expansions into 17 emerging markets and previously served as political appointee to the George H.W. Bush administration at the U.S. Department of Commerce. 

Carlos has held numerous volunteer leadership roles, including with the executive board of the National AI Consortium, the National Hispanic Corporate Council, and recently the National YMCA USA Board. He is also a sought after motivational speaker. Carlos holds Bachelor's degrees in political science and history from Davis and Elkins College with minors in economics and humanities. He also serves as adjunct instructor in the College of Business at Valparaiso University.

Welcome to the show, Carlos.

Carlos Ayala (01:56)
Thank you Josh for having me. Appreciate you Happy New Year

Dr. Josh Elmore (01:58)
Happy New Year to you too. We're excited to chat and kind of giving us ⁓ a closer glimpse into your background beyond the that I just shared there. Can you share a bit about your background and your journey through various leadership roles?

Carlos Ayala (02:11)
Sure, thank you. Thank you again for having me. I think for me, my leadership journey literally has evolved since I arrived in the US from a little tiny country called El Salvador. And I think my leadership was actually the formation from my mother, who helped instill so many of the leadership values that I admire today from employees, people that I strive to achieve every single day. 

But just like any leader, I would also say that my leadership has evolved over the years. I would say that earlier in my career, I was very much what I call a subject matter expert, focused on execution, technical expertise. And I would say as I've moved into leadership roles, I realized that the just what I knew, about how do I lead people?

How do I think strategically? And having what I call that strategic agility be able to respond what the organization truly needs in any given moment, regardless of any organization.

Dr. Josh Elmore (03:07)
So responding in what the organization needs and that kind of speaks to also the flexibility beyond subject matter expertise it sounds like where you're kind of in a niche and I'd love to hear kind of what those niches were and then kind of how it got generalized.

Carlos Ayala (03:23)
Well, you know, I think your career, when you start out and you graduate from college, you don't know where your career is going to take you. I think I've always been what I call a student of learning. so I always, the organizations that I've joined, I always wanted to continuously get better and not just my role, but obviously progress throughout the organizations. And so it's always been a learning journey for me.

But I would also tell you that it hasn't been also easy. I mean, there's been some bumps along the way and that you kind of sit back and you go, hmm, what could I do differently? What would I have done differently? And now that as I reflect, obviously there are things that you can always improve upon.

Dr. Josh Elmore (03:50)
Hmm. And so those bumps along the way, were they around, know, you know, ⁓ the because, you know, the shows on transition, was it around the transition? Was it other types of bumps? Like, what was the kind of catalysts?

Carlos Ayala (04:16)
Well, I think the bumps are always, know, sometimes you leave organizations because you think the grass is always greener. And sometimes we have the tendency to jump, especially earlier in my career, I would jump for the financial gains. And sometimes those financial gains mean sacrifices as you move forward, right? I mean, there was one organization that I used to do, the pay was great, but it took a toll on me physically. 

I was driving almost 65 miles each way. So that's 120, 130 miles of round trip every single day. And when you're juggling a family, juggling back then sometimes we didn't have the flexibility that we do with our phones, remote, right? I mean, you had to be in the office at 8 a.m. and you would get the looks if you left at five o'clock.

That's where I'm saying that some of the lessons that I've learned and the flexibility.

Dr. Josh Elmore (05:09)
Hmm. And you're so you're you have your own firm now you're also coming from a past role, right? Being the chief workplace and connection officer at NiSource ⁓ So can you tell us about that transition?

Carlos Ayala (05:19)
Correct. Correct.

Well, I think for me, the biggest transition is going into my own. Today, my focus is launching Mentora, a small LLC right outside of Chicago. And I would say that for me, the mission is to bring together what you mentioned earlier, the strategic ability, those insights, and also leadership experiences that I've gained in my career. how do I help leaders and organizations thrive?

At Mentora, I think what I want to be able to work on is that intersectionality between strategy, culture, and people, and really help organizations, I would say energize our teams. How do you energize your teams to be the best in what they do? And I think if I can do that, I will be sleeping very well, you know, this evening.

Dr. Josh Elmore (06:01)
Hmm. And how does kind of the your past roles influence the practice that you've been building?

Carlos Ayala (06:15)
Well, for me, the past experiences have led me from obviously the political environment, retail, CPG, utilities, energy. And I think all those past experiences, including at the C-suite have allowed me to basically think how do you drive, you know, culture transformation? How do you help individuals, organizations, you know, think about the people, the impact that people have?

And also, how do we continue to help shape organizations for the future, right? We know AI is going to continue to be a big impact. But at the same time, I want to be able to sit there and say, Mentora can come in and help you as an organization, not just think about the framework of your organization, but what does that strategy look like and how does a culture come together and really drive the change that's needed?

The big thing that I think have shaped me is I would say humility. The ability to get to know people, understand people, obviously understand what drives people and organizations, leadership, connectivity, all those things that really help thrive organizations. 

And so when I think about Mentora, I think about what would I do if I was, know, now that I'm on the other end, what can I bring to an organization that is not just powerful, meaningful, but also, you know, from a business impact? at the end of the day, it's all about the business, right? 

But, I also want to be able to help organizations think how do we create the best winning teams within your organization? And we know that in teams, you need a variety of individuals to be able to comprise of, know, functions, departments to create that winning mindset at all times. And it doesn't matter what sport or function or organization, but you have to learn how to embrace people's differences and perspectives to be able to get everybody aligned and moving forward in the right direction.

Dr. Josh Elmore (08:07)
And idea of getting people moving forward in the right direction, do you have an example of how you've done that in the past?

Carlos Ayala (08:15)
Sure, you I've had the ability to also lead D E&I work in my previous life. And obviously ⁓ it allowed me to learn cultures, learn people, learn what motivates people in different ways. And what I realized is that we're all driven in many ways. We're all driven in ways that it's not necessarily financial. It could also be cultural. 

It could also be the ability of our and cultures also help us think about how we communicate, how we lead and how do we serve people. so I think that ability to understand people and align people to what is important, not just on your own personal beliefs, but on the core values of the organization, think are critical.

Dr. Josh Elmore (08:45)
Hmm. And so you say you've worked on DE &I work. And can you tell us more about that evolution of DE &I through your past assignments?

Carlos Ayala (09:10)
You know, DE&I obviously has been going through changes in today's landscape. And for me, would say it's always been a part of my DNA of who I am. But for certainly, you know, it certainly has had an impact in my career. I mean, the way I see people, the way I treat people, and most importantly, the way I embrace everyone, regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity. 

So think it helped shape who I am as a leader, treat people with respect, treat people with kindness, and all those things. When I look back, still thinking about if I can motivate you, if I can influence you, and if I can impact you, then I can certainly help think D E&I a little bit differently in the way it drives and impacts the business.

Dr. Josh Elmore (10:01)
Yeah, and so thinking about kind of your various roles, and you mentioned this idea of culture change and kind of influencing people and motivating them. How did you lead an influence change in your past roles?

Carlos Ayala (10:16)
Well, change doesn't happen easy. I think you have to take a good perspective on people's emotions. But even going back to me for my global marketing days, everything has always been grounded on key insights. And I would say that those insights are really the catalyst for any change that you're about to make in any organization. I always think about the people, but I always leverage key insights that help me make the best decisions moving forward. 

And I use a kind of, I would say a combination of both emotions and data to make the right decisions. because I think it's so important that if we take the human approach on anything that we do, we will ultimately make the best decisions and help shape those decisions more effectively and efficiently

Dr. Josh Elmore (11:06)
you talked about this idea making decisions, think, you know, this idea of emotions. How have you seen emotions play out as it relates to kind of driving change in an organization?

Carlos Ayala (11:18)
So emotions are interesting, right? And especially in today's landscape where media influences a lot of the things that we hear, see, do. have to be careful as leaders to understand our people and the emotions that they're bringing into the workplace. 

Because those emotions are the ones that really help us understand what is really motivating individuals within the organizations to bring out the best foot forward. And if you're mind, if you're not in a mindset where your emotions are in good place, believe it or not, it impacts the way you deal with people. It impacts the way you treat people. It impacts your performance. 

It impacts everything that you're thinking about on a daily basis on moving the needle forward to drive and impact the business. And I think that's where leaders have to be really careful to make sure that they get to understand their employees, understand what's going on. And believe it or not, their emotions can be positive. It can also be negative, right? It could be individuals who just had a baby and stayed up till, you know, three o'clock in the morning and, you know, both parents were up and, you know, I've been there, right? And having that ability to understand that it's okay. 

It's okay if you came in an hour late today because you were up. But having that emotional intelligence, I think is key for any leader moving forward.

Dr. Josh Elmore (12:37)
And you worked across several Fortune 500s, as we said in your bio, NiSource, Honeywell, Hallmark. Can you tell us a little bit about those roles that you held and how you navigated transition when you came into those various roles?

Carlos Ayala (12:52)
Sure. you know, I've had, I've been blessed in many ways to have, I've done marketing, transition into HR, transition to global, transition to DE&I And I think part of it, the reason why some of those transitions have been, I would say easy, has been because of the ability to connect with people, the ability to get to know the organization, the direction of the organization, understand what the mission is. 

I think I've done that effectively in many ways where I had the opportunity to say, know, what does the organization, if I'm doing a marketing role, right, what does this mean from a business impact? Obviously, it's all about driving And if you put your mindset in that landscape, you will ultimately succeed as a leader. When I transitioned into the HR roles, it was no longer about the financial impact on a daily basis. It was more about how do we drive the change that's needed from our people? 

How do we bring the best in our people? How do we help leaders identify those leaders that are ready for those promotions? How do we identify those people that are just maybe not the right fit for the organization? And so you start putting in that data, human side, and I would say that those key roles and areas helped me transition. But I would also tell you that earlier in my career, think the politics have also helped in many ways. Because just like any organization, there are politics, right? 

There's politics of anything that you do, on why you do it and how you do it, and having that ability to be keen on assessing. The political landscape, think, is also key for any individual moving forward.

Dr. Josh Elmore (14:33)
And right, so you mentioned this idea of, moving between units of areas, right? Marketing, HR, how was that transition, right? You mentioned this idea of thinking the business impact on the marketing side to moving into HR, where you're thinking about the people side, right? Internal focus. How did you make that ⁓ mindset shift, priority shift? 

And integrating into kind of an entirely different culture of way of where source of motivation and seeking to get things done, what the end goal actually looks like.

Carlos Ayala (15:05)
I think for me, probably because I've led the businesses, I think it became very easy to transition into that role, into roles of HR. When I was at a previous organization, when you're running 17 countries around the globe, it's really about the people. You can have an amazing strategy, but the execution was always key. 

So as I thought about people and the impact that they driving business and driving change within organizations, the transition was actually easy because I started thinking about the people first. I started thinking about the execution and the way things needed to get done. But that, I think, also led to a different leadership style that I think allowed me to think differently, right, on the way it wasn't just the data that was making my decisions, but it was also the humanistic side of leading people and transitioning and helping leaders, identifying those leaders across the world that basically would help us drive the change. And that is so important in any organization.

Dr. Josh Elmore (16:00)
So I'm hearing that people management practices span, right? Because we know that once you get to that leadership level, the manager level, the work changes from the content of the work to the management of people and kind of helping them along. And so that spans across these various domains, how would you say people management is different? across these two different areas that you've been in.

Carlos Ayala (16:32)
People management is different because now you're dealing with cultural norms. And cultural norms are sometimes can be misconstrued, can be misinterpreted. The idea is if you get to know your people, you get to know what makes them thrive, what brings up the energy in them.

think for me it was in a way so rewarding just to be able to learn the culture piece more, learn about in general, like people, families, what motivates them. And, you know, one of the countries that I was managing at the time was also El Salvador. And I thought being of El Salvadorian descent, I knew everything about the culture.

And I will tell you that I learned more each time I kept going into the country where it gave me a different perspective on why probably I even act the way I do at times. I think it's those cultural norms that have been embedded as part of your own DNA that you kind of go, God, where did I get that from? Right. And you get it from just where you came from.

As I reflected, I got to know aunts, uncles, grandmother. And what I realized is for me, it was humility. We were just, you know, blue collar workers. And the humility of being a good servant leader, I think has always been instilled in me. And I think it really shined through my cultural experiences of running El Salvador. I think it was just amazing in the way it brought the best in me as an individual and as a leader.

Dr. Josh Elmore (18:08)
Hmm. Wow, that's super powerful. This idea of having a kind of personal realization through ⁓ work dynamics and kind of being able to apply that into your lessons of leadership in the organization and especially from a national perspective, I think that's going to be that's one of the most powerful ways you can experience. 

I mean, that's what culture shock is and that's cultural immersion and where real learning comes from is where do you go and you visit another culture and you kind of get to see their norms and practices and so thinking about the various organizations you've been through, know, would say organizations especially embedded in the United States or in a certain cultural context, they're going to be different, you know, different but like slightly but very similar, ⁓ know, especially if they're professionalized and corporate, than, you know, country dynamic, country differences.

So, getting that country perspective definitely gives you a leg up. So, as you can navigate between corporate contexts and thinking about those corporate contexts, what strategies have helped you navigate between organizations?

Carlos Ayala (19:14)
Well, it's actually interesting because I think I've also changed through those cultural experiences. ⁓ You know, I think our culture in the US is always let's move quickly, let's act on things. And I think that cultural experience, it did a couple of things for me. 

It taught me to listen closely, ask a lot of questions, and take time to truly understand not just organizations, but its people. And then act. So observe, listen, ask mindset has really been critical for me because would say that you can't lead effectively if you don't understand what's worked, what has to change, and what your people need differently as what makes them be successful to be able to make the impact. 

That's kind of where this culture and strategy come together, that ability. And I used to be a leader. I will tell you you know, this is the way we're doing it and let's move forward, right? sometimes I think when I reflect, I should have used my own model of observe, listen, ask and act more. And I think we probably would have had more cohesive teams to be able to drive the change that was needed. 

I would tell you, I've been applying that philosophy and mindset for the last probably 10 years. And I think it's made me a better individual, a better leader and the ability to also connect people within organizations, which I think is key.

Dr. Josh Elmore (20:46)
That's a really powerful reflection, this idea of recognizing kind of the value proposition of like listening, asking, understanding, then acting versus kind of just bulldozing through and trying to get something pushed through and seeing the fallout associated with that technique. In your kind of leadership experiences and the kind of navigating between these cultural contexts of organizations,

What are some wins and setbacks as it relates to those transitions?

Carlos Ayala (21:14)
So I would say like just like any leader, I've had my share of wins and setbacks, right? I mean, the biggest lessons I've taken from both my journey has been what I call the power of influence. you start thinking about leadership at its core, it's really about how do you motivate people and how do you inspire people? 

And in many ways, I would say that, you I used earlier the analogy of teams, right? And teams, you have to see the human side of people because we all show up to work. We want to work hard. We want to do our best. But if a good leader isn't motivating you and saying it's OK to fail, you're never going to get better.

And so I've taken the approach in my leadership that, you know, it's okay to fail. It's okay to make mistakes. Obviously, as long as they're not, you know, critical, you know, but you can make mistakes every day. I mean, we all make them, right? And, but as a leader, I have to create this whole psychological safety mindset that don't just come to me when it's the good wins, also come to me when we have the failure.

And believe it or not Josh, I've actually used that approach with my kids as well. And that approach has always been, I love you more when you do good, right? But I want you to also keep in mind that I love you more and more when you also mess up.

And so it's also about motivating your kids, right? And in many ways, and like, I need to bring out the best of my kids to be able to make the right decisions. Don't get me wrong, I've made some bad ones. And if you use the analogy of employees, we got to get the best of them as well. And as long as they understand what the core values are of the organization, then hopefully I can help them with a mindset of doing what's right at all times, but also having that psychological safety mindset that it's okay if you fail.

Dr. Josh Elmore (23:05)
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a powerful lesson for folks. And also, how do you illustrate that for people? Like, how do you let them, how do they, how do you give them evidence that it's okay to share those things? Right? How do you build the psychological safety?

Carlos Ayala (23:21)
Well, as leader, first of all, you have to stand up and say, you know, I just made that mistake. Right. So people have to see you authentic. People have to see you as generally. Look, I make mistakes every day and, you know, I always debrief, you know, as I've led teams, I always debrief after, especially after board meetings. Because I think it's so important to debrief and give them the perspectives that.

You know, board meetings are tough, but they don't always go as you plan. And so providing that leadership that, know, I could have done a better job here. I didn't do a good job here, you know, and the outcome probably went the wrong direction. also think helps shape individuals to say, wow, he really assessed himself and, you know and, it's always with the spirit of mindset, I want to keep getting better at what I do. 

And that's my mindset. That is my true mindset. You got to get better at what you do every single day. And that learning mindset, I think, is critical as a leader. You have to challenge yourself to be a better leader every single day. It's not like, OK, I made it to the top as a C-suite, and I'm done.

Believe it or not, actually, that's where you gotta start challenging yourself even more is how do I fine tune my leadership skills and constantly be evolving them to be able to be a better leader each day? Because people expect the best from you when you make it to the top.

Dr. Josh Elmore (24:42)
Hmm. Yeah. And sounds like role modeling is a key technique. And I completely agree. If people see that it's OK to be that self-reflective person and to stand up and show where mistakes were made and the reflective attempt at self-improvement, kind of all of these different pieces that, you know, illustrate a growth mindset. 

That's certainly a way that you can get an organization around if you're thinking about emotions, right? You were talking about emotions earlier. You know, there's probably nothing more powerful than the negative emotions that come with, you know, fear that you messed up or fear that, you know, you might lose your job or kind of the consequences. 

So if you can show people that maybe lower the temperature around people's experience of, you know, just being human acknowledging that. can hear how your people first approach comes through. Super powerful.

And, you know, thinking about as we kind of wrap up here, what advice would you share with other leaders currently entering a new high stakes role?

Carlos Ayala (25:50)
I would say that if you can apply my observe, listen, ask and act and, you know, philosophy, I think any leader that steps into the new role, take a moment, take a moment to get to know your people and don't just start making the decisions because you've done it this way in a different organization or it's worked or the benchmarks are there, I think get to know what, you know start peeling the onion on the organization and say, what, really, how does this really work? 

And you'd be surprised when the best thinking will come forward. But most importantly, where people kind of go like, you know what? I'm going to show him that this, if we were to do it this way, he or she can basically make the best decision because I've seen it work and I've seen it where it's failed. But if you don't take time to get to know the people that are on your team, I think you can't lead. so leaders have to take time to know their people, but, you know, apply that. 

I tell you, I think it's been so powerful for me in my own ways because there are times that individuals have walked into my office and I just want to quickly make it, you know, I know what the decision is. But I also have put myself back in, you know, 15, 20 years ago. What was it like when I was walking into that leader's office and I was quickly dismissed on my ideas or perspectives, right? It didn't motivate me. It just actually meant just go, OK, fine, we'll do whatever, you know, he or she wants.

And I think if you can create a power, a message of we factor the we factor, I think any organization, any leader will be able to succeed as they move forward.

Dr. Josh Elmore (27:32)
Hmm. And that's a we factor instead of a me factor, it sounds like. Very good. Very good. And so before we kind of finish up the conversation, is there anything you'd like to share about Mentora and what it is y'all do?

Carlos Ayala (27:36)
That's correct, that's correct.

Well, think Mentora, think for me is it's really helping empowering organizations really in their people, right? Bringing people and culture together, helping drive that strategy. And I call it strategy meets execution. And if I can do that to any organization or individuals that are looking for creating that bridge connector within, I think that's the purpose of Mentora.

I'm not your big fancy big firm, but I am what I call the human side of an organization that is ready to support and go beyond the scope of the work, but go in and really start peeling the onion on what really motivates people to bring their best foot forward as they move forward within their companies or organizations.

Dr. Josh Elmore (28:33)
Very good, very good. Well, Carlos, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing with us super important stuff that you're sharing. ⁓ And I hope the leaders that are listening are taking away the powerful message that you have. So thanks.

Carlos Ayala (28:46)
Well, thank you, Josh. I appreciate you for having me. Thank you again. Happy New Year.

Dr. Josh Elmore (28:49)
Happy New Year to you as Thanks for listening to the Land and Lead podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Josh Elmore. Tune in next time for more stories from leaders navigating high stakes role transitions.