Episode 9 Emily Aborn

Today, I invited Copywriter and small business enthusiast, Emily Aborn to join for a conversation about her rebranding process. Now, Emily and I are collaborative partners, so you will find my excitement a bit on the high end as we dove in to this discussion. I'm so excited for you to hear her hot takes on the journey working with me.

You can find more about Emily and all of her services at www.emilyaborn.com

Thank you for listening! If you think it is time for your rebrand, or with any questions about my artistic process, please visit me at jmmartistdesigner.com or reach out at instagram.com/jmmartistdesigner

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to Brand Transformations, the podcast where we dive deep into the real stories behind rebranding. I'm Jess Mercier, a brand strategist and designer, and I've had the privilege of guiding incredible entrepreneurs through the journey of stepping into a brand that truly reflects their vision. In this series, we'll explore the struggles, breakthroughs, and unexpected wins that come with rebranding. Because a brand transformation is about so much more than just a logo. Let's get started. Hi everybody, and welcome to the next episode of Brand Transformations. I am highly caffeinated today, also hydrated and very excited to introduce you to my next guest. From Hypnosis to Wind Turbines, our guest today has written it all. Emily Avorn is a small business copywriter and podcast host, an entrepreneur for over a decade. She's collaborated with thousands of individuals on over 121 industries as a copywriter. She helps clients unlock their distinct personality, creativity, and message as she brings it to life on the page. Her goal is for your ideal clients to say yes before they even get on the Discovery call. For fun, she enjoys word games. Are you really surprised? Reading, listening to podcasts, and hiking with her husband Jason. Welcome, Emily. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I've been waiting for this moment for so long.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

I like woke up and I was like, it's coronation day.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

It's very, very exciting.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Very exciting. Um, can you start by just telling us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Sure. Uh, I'll be brief because my bio kind of said a lot. So I'm a copywriter. I live in New Hampshire, um, which I know you're from the Northeast too. So it's totally a distinct, faster, I think it's a fast-paced kind of way of life and a little bit chilly during the winter. So we have like this sort of, you know, it's like the New England edge, I guess. Um, but I I really love working with like small business owners who are looking to stand out with a little bit of their personality. So they're not afraid to shy away from maybe a couple exclamation points on the page or, you know, what whatever makes them uniquely them. I want to shine that light and bring them to life. So that I guess is about me.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

But you also have an incredible love of business, talking business and talking about business and two people about business. So you have your podcast. So tell us more about that as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah, like I've known two things from a real early age. One was that I knew I wanted to own a business, and I have it kind of coming at me both from both sides in my DNA. Like both my grandparents had um, like these general stores, actually. So up all both up in Maine. Um, so I I've always known I wanted to have my own business. And I've always had like that love. Like my Grampy owned this um, it was called the Vegetable Corner, and it was like the staple of the community. And everybody would kind of like come in, get their groceries, but it was also really like a connection and gathering place. And I loved how he created that with his, like with his place of you know, employment. I thought that was just the coolest thing. So I kind of always wanted something that felt like that. And as a solo business owner, I feel like I've really kind of created that like network around me of people, like people like you. And we just so closely collaborate that we are creating that melting pot, I guess. Um, and the second thing I've always known is that I wanted to write. And I have always been an avid reader. I've always had like a love for words. I was like the four-year-old. I'm not making the story up. I was the four-year-old sitting on the kitchen counter quizzing my mom on her medical terminology course and like falling in love with words like hypoglycemia and hypothermia. Like I just really have a I love words. Um, so those are the two things I always knew for sure. And like everybody's path, mine took a very, you know, twisty-turny road. But I'm I'm always grateful that it did because I I had a business before this business, which was retail. Um, and I've tried a couple of other entrepreneurial ventures. And I they've all led me to where I am, and they've all given me such one, a deep passion for like helping small business owners to overcome their challenges. And two, just like such a solidified why of like why I am doing this now. And like this feeling that I've just kind of arrived finally at what I'm supposed to be doing with my life.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

That's so amazing. I I I also had a very windy, weird journey to get where I am. And I think that that is something to be really grateful for as well, because you kind of look back and you're like, well, I tried all the I tried a lot of stuff. Now I really feel like this is where I'm supposed to be. So I love I love that for you. As opposed to somebody that has like a like the dream when they were a child and they just like beeline straight to one thing. Um, not that that's a bad thing. I think that everybody's got their their own journey, but I think that I I understand there with you.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah, yeah. I love that we've shared that story.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So take us to, you know, a year or so ago, um, when you decided, okay, looking at your business, looking at the things that surrounded it, and you were like, hmm, I wonder, I wonder if it's time to re-rebrand or refresh some things. Tell me about what led up to uh you connecting with me and and working with me.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So you and I have worked together on some collaborations on other projects. Um, and in May of 2025, I think that I was starting to feel this kind of like itch that a lot of business owners feel when they know that they have gotten to a different level, but their everything that they kind of have in place doesn't reflect where they are. And sometimes, and in my case, this was for sure happening. Sometimes that can attract um either the wrong kind of client or just like a level of work that you know, like I know I can do more. Like I know I can be doing better than this or more than this, you know, and not not like for my clients, but just like I have more potential inside of me. So I kind of hit that place. Um, and you, I think I reached out to you on my birthday or a couple days before. I don't know, I was going to get a haircut. I remember exactly where I was driving to. And I like sent you an Instagram message. We were just kind of talking about it. And I was like, you know what? Like, I think it's gonna be Jess. And that was very scary. Um, and maybe you can kind of like add some insights to that conversation, but I just knew I'd outgrown what I had created so far, and I was ready to kind of like feel what another what another level looked like. And I'm like, well, I've seen your work, you know, I'm well acquainted with how you your style, and um, I'm just gonna reach out to her and ask.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

I think I was, I think it's funny because there are people kind of along the way, and and I end up working with people that I collaborate with quite often. Um, and when you and I kind of uh originally started collaborating, you were doing one side of things, I was doing the other side, and there was uh there's another wonderful person in the middle that was kind of putting it all together. And I I remember the day when I like both of us were like, hey, like, do you want to maybe yeah, do you want to be friends? Hello, hello, and then I can't even remember a time in my business that we weren't, you know, like helping each other with something or working on me doing your rebrand or you working on helping me with my copy. And like there was just it, it was just a natural progression. And honestly, when you reached out to me, I was so honored because you are surrounded by website designers, branding people. Like, there's a lot of people in your circle that you could turn to. And I was nervous.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Well, you kind of if I recall, you were kind of like, yeah, of course we're gonna work together. You know, it's sort of like that. Um, and I've just seen the caliber of your work. And so, and a lot of, you know, I think it's important to have a brand that speaks to the kind of client that you want to attract. And so, because we had worked with so many of the same clients, I knew that you had like you knew what they liked, you know, you know deeply inside their brain just as much as I do. And so I think it was just like a totally natural, like obvious choice. Like, and that is what I love. I love when somebody is so distinct in their skill set and their expertise that it's like, oh, that's just the obvious choice for me. And that was you for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah. And I was so excited. And I was like, and yeah, I think my my initial reaction was, well, yeah, let's go. When do we start? Um, but I think the nervous part came with, and this has happened a lot with people that I've worked with. Like, I think that I love people so much, and I love working with passionate people so much that I do put my heart and soul into my work that I'm like, oh, I get really excited, and then I go, Oh, okay, okay, now we're gonna really do this. Like, I hope that it all goes smoothly. And um, that's just me being like super vulnerable, like here.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

We don't, we don't want to let people down. And I have had a lot of collaborations that, you know, didn't work out. And I was really nervous about collaborating with you. Like I was like, oh my God. Like, I don't, I think I said from the get-go, like, this is not ruin our friendship. You know, we have to be open and honest, like every single step of the way. And then, like, if anything comes up where you do feel uncomfortable or I've like, you know, gone overboard, you just have to tell me because I can't let this happen again. So, because it has happened.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

So, um, and I feel so so horribly for people that have been through a bad branding experience, you know. Um, and my one of my huge goals in my business is to never, it's like almost to heal people from that. I don't ever want somebody to come in to this feeling like they've been taken advantage of, feeling like they've been forced into decisions, feeling like I haven't been there all the way along to help them through this because it really can be an intense experience for people, especially when you're a solopreneur, especially when this is your personal brand. It can be it, it can be really personal. And I I it's it's a goal of mine to make sure that people never, ever, ever feel burned after they've worked with me.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah. Well, I think you succeeded, at least with me.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Um, well, I anyway, it was just it, uh I'm just so grateful for the opportunity to go through this process with you. So you were like, okay, Jess, let's go. Um tell us a little bit about what happened after that.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah. So I okay, so I had created like a Pinterest board, I think, already. Like I was like, you know what? This time I'm gonna do it on my own. And I'm like in Canva playing with fonts. I mean, I had like, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of Canva fonts and colors, and I'm sending them to friends and stuff. And then you and I started working together and it's basically like, okay, push all that aside, Emily, and we're gonna start fresh. Um, and I really liked your intake process because it, you know, much like mine, you use a questionnaire and then we also meet. And I loved being able to just kind of like pour out my story, like in writing, because that that really helps me get my thoughts out, obviously. Um, so I really loved that. And and just being able to say, you know, like what I don't love right now about what's happening is it just feels very young for me. And it feels like I'm not really taking this business seriously. And so I knew I wanted something that was like very elevated, um, also something very clean, simple. Like I want it to be able to stand the test of time. So I don't want to be changing my brand every five years, you know? I want it to last me a really, really long time. And I want it to be like adaptive. So I'm not like locked into like these certain things, you know. And I think that is where you really shined. Um, and I'll let you, I'm sure you have like, you don't want me to like jump to the end. So I'm just gonna pause there.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Um, I I love that you use the word timeless and adaptive. And I think that when I it I'm such a font nerd, it always goes back to typography. And I think a huge part of the decision-making process, when you say timeless, it comes to the typography. If you use something that is um trendy or, you know, really now, you're not gonna get that timeless quality to it. We also make sure that I'm not choosing like a font for you. You get like thin to black thicknesses, and I make sure that you try to, I mean, you know, is if do you need an italic? Do you need all of those resources? And I think that that's a huge part of building a brand that has adaptability and timeless. Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

And you know, like anything, like I can capitalize it, I can italicize it, I can bold it, and it all looks cohesive and the same no matter what I'm doing. So that I really love. And I do you want, can we stay on fonts for one second?

SPEAKER_00 14:34

We can totally, we can, we can stay on fonts for as long as you want.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

So, first, I really liked like I have fun with like font names. I just, they're like pink colors to me. Like, I just find them so fun or crayon colors. Um, but funny enough, and you I don't even know if I've told you this yet, but one of the fonts you chose for me, silver editorial is the name of it. Um, it actually you you would never know this, but I have this guiding word in my life that is very closely related to the word silver. And so the that was like a whoa, because I knew I did love, I wanted that editorial look. Like that was something I for sure knew. Um, but so that was one little like synchronicity. And then the other one you chose for me that's like a handwritten font. When I look at my handwriting now, like when I'm just writing, not like writing a letter to somebody or writing something that anybody cares about. My handwriting is so similar to that, it's not even funny. Like it's it's like like even how I sometimes will capitalize and sometimes won't. And so it's just very and like slant. My grandmother used to be like, you slant your text the wrong way. And I'm like, I that's just how I write. She's like, you have to slant it the other way. So it's just all very um little subtle things that you probably never would have realized. And then one of them was like the exact, it was like one letter off from something I'd picked that was a Canva font. And I'm like, oh, that's fun.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah. Um I don't know, I don't know how I how I do it. Not even gonna lie, I don't know how I do it. But I don't, it's not like I ask for somebody's um like a sample of your writing and then I go try to match it. Like that is not how it how it works. I just go and I find, you know, whether it be a handwritten or whatever, like I try really hard in my process. I didn't want to look at your Pinterest board because it's, you know, back when I was a baby designer, I would ask people to send me inspiration. And I would, and then I realized in the creative process that I was accidentally uh like copying because I couldn't get it out of my brain what the inspiration was. And so a while ago, I decided I don't want to see your inspiration. I don't even want to hear the colors that you like or what you're thinking. I allow myself to go out into the world and like gather what I think and talk with my hands so much, and I just hit my microphone. Sorry, guys. Um, and I I go out into the world and I gather what I think is gonna be right for you, and then we can edit from there, obviously. But you wouldn't believe how many times I show a handwritten or a script font to a client, and they're like, Oh my god, that looks just like how I write. And and I don't know why at this point I don't even get surprised. I'm like, Yeah, I figured so funny. But I think that that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

The other thing I think about the silver one, the silver editorial is uh you had sent me a couple, and then I was like, ooh, fun. Now I can go look at like other ones. And we both ended up liking it, it was like the same designer for the fonts, and we both you you're like, oh, I was gonna send you that one. I just hadn't got there yet, you know. Like I was like, How about this one, Jess? And you're like, Yeah, and that was my next email.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

That was on my list. Yeah, I love that, and I think that it's just that whole process is really fun, you know, because especially because you're a writer, and what a font can do is it gives people the feeling of what you're saying before they even read the words.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

So for you, typography was really, really, really important to get that right. Um, and it took, you know, it took a couple of back and forths, and and that's totally okay because in the end, I'm not a mind reader. I can tell you what I think what I think you're gonna like and what I think what works for your brand. But you know, there were a couple that you were like, I'm not really sure about that, but we ended on stuff that is 100% adaptable and very timeless.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

I think fonts was honestly the easy part. I think colors and the final result was the hard part.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah. What about the colors? Because I think I remember there was a little bit of pushing you outside of your comfort zone there. So talk about comfort zone and what happened in that aspect of you know, choosing the brand colors.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

So when you I okay, let me rewind a little bit. So when you first showed me the colors that you had come up with for me, I actually just really did not like any, I didn't like them at all. And I was so nervous to tell you, like, I have never given somebody negative feedback. I'm usually just the person that's like, yeah, it's fine, it's great. Like you're the expert, you know best. And you stand by having this like collaborative process. So I'm like, I think I just have to tell her. And the other thing it did to me, and I think that the the branding process is so good for like your own self. Like, I had to say to myself, is this how I'm coming across to people? Like, is this how people perceive me? Like, is this how Jess perceives me? Is this how I'm being seen? Like, I'm having like this existential crisis over here, right? Um, but what we landed with, like, I don't even remember how we honed in on it, but what we landed with, like, it is so perfect. And it what the one color that was a little uncomfortable for me was the yellow. I'm like, no, I do not do yellow. Emily does not do yellow. Well, don't you know like four people since then? I think one of them was like one of my little brothers. We were like having this little fun game with each other where I'm like, if I were a color, what would I be? He's like yellow.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yellow.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

He's like like sunshiny, like turn the lights down yellow. So I just love that. And I am so in love with that yellow, it is not even funny. Like it you named it butter. I'm like, oh my god, I love it. I just love it. It gives me all the good feels. It's so warm and inviting and like bright, but not like blinding, and it's just perfect. So you you if you had showed me that when we started working together, I'd be like, never mind, let's not do this.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

We were in too deep at that point. There was there is no going back. Yes, yes. Yeah, I feel like people have to remember that you're it's it's like this balance, right? It's this harmony of yes, it's personal, yes, it's your business, but also you have to kind of dress for the job that you want and that you are and that you're becoming, where I, you know, with my kids and my husband, I'm like a t-shirt and jeans girl, but when I go to a networking event, I'm not showing up that way, right? Your business has a different persona than you personally. There are aspects of it that can bridge that gap, but just because you wouldn't wear yellow on a daily basis. Basis doesn't mean that yellow isn't part of your business brand. Right. And then on top of that, we have to take that bridge gap from like you personally to your business persona. And then there's the clients. So what do they want to see too? So it's, I used to even say it's about you and your clients, but really it's this full spectrum of things that we have to please. And not only please, but we have to be authentic, right? Um, and I think part of that process of building, you know, all of these pieces that that fit together in this way that you feel really good with and you feel authentic, your clients are also gonna see it and be like, oh, this is the person that feels good to me, right? And then it also makes you feel elevated, like that business persona that you need to have. And it and when somebody's trying to do this by themselves, I can't imagine the over overwhelm that happens.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, I don't know what possess I think I was just really having a hard time with like nobody understands me, you know, like I have to just do it myself because nobody gets it.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah. So I think that I want to go back to one of the things that you said earlier where it was that moment that you said I that moment that you get that sort of itch, when you realize that you've reached a different level in your business. And probably before then, you've either done something DIY or you've kind of, you know, maybe you've picked a little template on Etsy or whatever. But when we when we reach to a certain point, it's like the certain point when somebody says, it's time for a business coach, because I've gotten myself this far. I think that there is a significant part of everybody that when you reach a certain level, you can you can only get to a certain level by yourself. And then it's time to work with somebody else to push you to the next level.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Yeah. And the person who did my brand before, she was lovely and talented. And uh what I think what ended up happening was I saw something else that I was like, oh, I love this that you've done. Like I kind of want that, right? And it was a symbol very, very meaningful to me personally, um, and colors that I like personally, but they're not really like reflective of what I'm doing in my professional life. So it was sort of like a mismatch between it was it was showing the personal Emily, but maybe not the the place where my business was. And so there was that disconnect that you are exactly just talking to. Um, and the years prior to that, I just kind of was like piecemealing things, you know, as as one does, or doing it myself, um, as also one does. So it had sort of been like this like I think I was like this stone in the ocean, like getting tossed and turned in the current. And then I'm like, oh dear God. Okay, I'm smooth now. So can we just talk about the smoothness and not the past?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Um you know, and no, and uh I never ever ever hoped that I like throw any sort of shade towards past designers. Like I think that the brand that you had before was very pretty and it just didn't if I would have never said, Hey Emily, I think you need to rebrand. Like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, no, nobody that was a yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

No, no, everybody's talented and there are so many incredible people out there. Um, but like you said, it just wasn't really aligned to where you were going.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

I think this will be helpful for anyone listening that's like, well, I don't want to lose the recognition that I have right now with my current brand. Like I did feel that way because a lot of people would say, every time I see a dandelion, I think of you. Every time, you know, this always makes me think of you. People send me that stuff all the time. I actually now I am still very recognizable in my branding. People still know, oh, Emily did that, Emily did that, Emily did that. Um, it's just a different, it's a totally different look. So I don't want you to be nervous. I was nervous about that. I was like, well, I built this whole like thing. I mean, I even have a tattoo of a dandelion, right? Like I've everybody knows Emily likes dandelions. So it was, and that is a very personal, meaningful symbol to me. Um, and I again it's it it is related to my work and I tie it into my work a lot. And nobody really needs to like see this like icon that says that, you know. So I think you you have to remember that like you will your your recognizability will shift, it will be a different brand that is recognized and it you will not be unrecognizable, you know, like you will still be the that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

I didn't say that quite well, but no, that I get it. Will you talk about that transition because that there is a there's a lot that goes through, okay. So you're like, okay, I'm gonna do a rebrand, right? Or I'm gonna build a brand. And then we go through that whole process and then it's it's done, it's finalized. Then what?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Yeah, it's a lot, and I that's important for people to know too. And that's why having a team helping you do it is so, so helpful. So, like with my website, I did end up doing, you know, because I was already set up and stuff. So I already did I did that on my own. Um, the other thing I knew I needed to like elevate a little bit and also really think to myself, how does Emily dress? Like, how do what is my style? Like, I hit that point in my life where I'm like, I don't even know myself. So I had to really put some thought into that stuff and I did new photos that like I really feel like just like, okay, these now really represent who I am and they also go hand in hand with my brand. And I waited until after the branding process to do those because that that felt really important to me. I didn't actually change or touch anything, like I was like raring to go. I'm like, dear God, when can I start changing things? Um, but I did not change anything until it was entirely all done, and everything was going to be cohesive at one time, like photos, websites, social, podcast, all of it. Like I just fully embraced every single detail of my brand um and and took it on myself to like change everything at once, which was a huge undertaking.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Um, and it was so important. And it I when I say the thing about the clothes, I don't know how this happens, but like I really started to say, oh, this is not only who I am. You use this sentence and I love it. It's not only who I am, it's also like who I'm becoming. But like my clothes now, I do I used to have mountains of clothing when I was getting dressed in the morning, like mountains. I'd be like, I don't know. I tried on like 50 items and nothing is me. Now I lay every time I'm like getting ready to do something, you know, show up on camera. I say, Emily, you get three options, lay them out on the bed, and they like it doesn't matter which of those three options I choose. They're all very much me and they all very much work. And my decision-making process, and it goes for my brand too, but my decision-making process is about two seconds, you know, not like three hours. Yeah. Like I was late everywhere, and I'd be like, it's literally just because I couldn't find out what to wear, and this is what I ended up with.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

I think it's so funny that you brought up. I mean, I first of all, I love that you waited to get your photos done until after. Cause I I feel pretty strongly that that's a really good way to do the process. I've had put people come to me and they're like, I just had these branding photos taken and now we're and I'm like, well, how did well okay. And we work with it and that's that's cool. Like everybody's got their own thing. But um, I actually love helping people pick out outfits for their photos. Like that's that's not something it's not like a service I provide or anything like that, but like I love clothes. I think that clothing is such a huge part of expressing yourself. Um, and I love helping people with that part. Um, and then, you know, you think about your branding photos and how you're gonna use them. And, you know, you need to have lots of different things to be able to have longevity with your photos. Anyway, um, I kind of like, here we go, Jess, come back. Um, but I like that you waited until after. But it I I also have this like metaphor where when you're getting into a new brand, it's like trying on a new outfit. And people are probably so sick of hearing that from me. But I love that going through the rebrand process made you think like, oh, does this person, what does this person wear now?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah, yeah. It really, I mean, and your my brand informed like what I wore to those, you know, because I'm like, now I want it all to be cohesive, right? Like I don't want to like stand out like a sore thumb in what I'm wearing or or how I'm even presenting myself, like have it be like, well, wait, that just doesn't make any sense. So um, it really was helpful. And and maybe not everyone needs to wait, but it was really helpful for me to wait until that was like set in stone. And then I'm like, okay, this is so much more inspiration than I ever thought I would have for what I'm choosing for these photos. Very simple, very again, very simple. But that's like I knew for me, it's so important for my clients to like stand out and sing. And I'm like, okay, what does that look like for me to not be the background, but to for me to like let them know that you're gonna be the one standing out and singing, right? Like, I'm not the polka dot wearing, bright, flashy person, and that's intentional. And it, you know, it's because I bring your voice to life. This isn't about my voice.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

So that's beautiful. I love, I love that you're so intentional about that, you know. But I also I hear, I mean, I'm here to make you shine. So I love seeing, I mean, when I when I see your posts now and I see, you know, what you do with them, I see how much fun you're having with it. So and I see you and your joy coming through. Um, and that makes me so, so, so happy that I can tell that you're enjoying that you enjoyed the process and and that you're really embracing the new brand. And um, and that makes me so happy.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

I think you and I talk about this a lot. I think break great branding and great photos inspires great content. And great content inspires great branding and great photos. Like it's almost like if you don't have all three together, there's like this major like you just don't feel inspired to do the things, to show up in the places, you know? And now it has given me a sense and level of confidence in showing up, which was like my most dreaded thing. Uh and I and it just has like reawakened that for me. So, and um, this is how you know you are nailing what you do. My friend looked at my stuff and she's like, Whoever did that, that's who I'm hiring, you know. So, like it spoke for itself, for you as well as for me. And I just think that that is the power of great branding.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I love, I think that the fact that it that you said that it gave you confidence, like that is so huge to me. And I think that it it's true, you know. Um in anybody that I've worked with, if I can inspire them or if I can give them that thing that that makes them feel confident, you know, because in reality, branding is the the catalyst to you getting out there and doing the thing that you're most passionate about and helping more people, right? We are all in business, yes, we're in business to make money, right? But I think the true people that I love to work with are the ones that are that are building their businesses but also to make the world better and out of service. If you get back to your why in business and it's not out of some type of service, out of helping people, then you know, making money is great, but how much better is it when you know that what you're doing is making a difference in somebody's life?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah, and I go back to that vision of my Grampy store. Like small businesses are the backbone of our communities and our economies and these places that connect people. Like, you know, I step out of my house and go frequent small businesses and I know the people there and I bump into my neighbors. Like they are what is keeping, you know, this like they are like a mini community, every single small business. And like if you and I can be the people that are helping those people thrive and make more of an impact, we're not just changing the business owner's life, which is huge. We are changing every single person that interacts with that business owner's life. And that is like, I don't know, the fact that that power is in our fingers is incredible to me.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, I feel so grateful. It like literally gives me tingles. Like when I talk to people, you know, I check in with people or I follow them on social media. And um, you know, one of my guys was like, uh they had shirts made, you know, with their logos. And now all of the boys work for the like all of the high school boys in town work for the company and they all wear their shirts everywhere. And like they have like this sense of pride, you know. And I think that it's just really awesome when you can take a small business and give them something that they want to put on a shirt or they want to share on share with everybody. Um, I love that that sense of excitement from a client after the brand is built. And and then it's on me. I'm like, okay, you need to give me a little bit. I gotta get your files running, and they're like, but I want them now. I want to show everybody.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Yes, that is the hard part, I will say. Waiting and then just like making sure, like, you know, I think the big reveal is scary. Because the other piece of uh branding is like, well, what if like everyone hates it? Or what if everyone looks at it and they're like, no, that is not you, and that did not happen. Like I got nothing but great feedback. Um, but I think that part is scary, like putting out, like, okay, this is uh a part of me and I'm gonna let you all see it soon. It's very, very scary. So I just appreciate you being like a really good guide in that, you know, and like I know I got squirrely sometimes, and and I also was really just grateful because I haven't had good practice being able to either I wasn't comfortable or I just didn't use my voice and say, like, uh Jess, I don't love this and I don't know why, and I I need help. And I'm scared to tell you that because I don't want to hurt your feelings.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I I think that it's a sign of a seasoned designer that can remove themselves and like my feelings. Uh not not always. I'm a person too, right? And as an artist and a creative, when I show somebody something that I'm super excited about, there is a lit, there can sometimes be a little bit of disappointment, maybe if like I put all of my like I get really excited about something and I'm like, oh my gosh, they're gonna love it, and then they hate it. But taking myself out of that, and I I'm a I allow myself to have that little bit of disappointment and go, okay, Jess, it's not about you. Let's remove that. Anytime something comes up that isn't right or I doesn't feel right to you, that's an opportunity. It's like when they say failing forward, like there's no such thing as failure as long as you learn from it. And I'm not saying that a picking the wrong, picking, picking a font and you not liking it as a failure. It's actually, oh, great, tell me now what doesn't feel right about it. We're not gonna do that again. And then it's a back and forth moment where we have to learn from those things. And then there's also points where I have to sort of educate you on like, well, this is why I chose this. And then you go, oh, I didn't see that before, you know, down to you know, is it a is it a round little A or does the A have the little hat on it? I really need to know like what the actual term is because I I don't. I just call it the little hat on the A.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

We're gonna look that up.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

We're gonna look that up at some point. Oh, she's gonna look it up right now. No, no, I'm just gonna like those little details, and then sometimes when somebody goes, Oh, I didn't see that before and now I get it. But it's all about communication, conversation, and you know, no ego really when it comes to me. It's about getting to the right answer. All the wrong ones can make up the right one. And and I never ever want somebody to be like, I didn't want to hurt your feelings because nobody should ever, ever settle, never settle, and that's what I think I I had to say to myself, Emily.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Like, we're not gonna settle this, you know, like this. We I have to say something. So I and I feel the same as a copywriter, and sometimes it is just a matter of preference. Like someone's like, I don't, I just don't like that word, and that's fine. People have all different word associations. Like, I've learned people don't really like the term deep listening, and I love that term, but some people are like really turned off, they're like, it sounds really woo-woo or like really sketchy, like I'm deeply listening. So some people just don't like that word. So I'm like, okay, no problem. Like, you're not hurting my feelings if you just have if we have a preferential difference. And people are nervous to speak up about that stuff. And sometimes it is an intentional uh no, you do not want to say this word, and this is why, or I wrote it this way to end on this word because it's more powerful than ending on this one, right? So there are, you know, all different flavors therein. And I think it all really does come down to communication and also trusting, like trusting that the person you're working with has your very best interest in mind. You have no agenda except for this person's success and best interest.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Absolutely. I I think that there are just so many things that we are aligned on when it comes to the production of creativity in our businesses, and that's 100% one of them. And and it's really, really hard to give trust to somebody that's got their hands all up in your stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

Um, but it's the only way you have to be vulnerable in this process. You have to trust and you have to communicate all of those things going deep into something like this, whether working, you know, on a on your branding, whether working with a copywriter. Like you have, if you're gonna hire somebody, you have to be really solid in that decision and that investment, and you have to trust them. Sorry, I don't I was very I very soapboxy there for a second. You really understand.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

I agree. I concur.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I concur. Uh that's one of my favorites. Um do you have? I think we're probably sort of there's so much we could talk talk forever, Emily. Um, which I may have to invite you back to the podcast. I want to dig into your process a little bit more as a copywriter. Um, but that's a little bit of foreshadowing for the future.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Dun dun dun dun. We definitely need to talk about what it looks like to collaborate with both of us because I think that's a process in and of itself.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah, I absolutely do. Um, but before we dig into that a little bit more for the future time, will you share any last advice for a business owner considering a rebrand?

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Yeah, I think if you're having that feeling, like, okay, it probably is time or it might be time, or something is just not landing. I'm not attracting the kind of clients I want to, or people are really misunderstanding what I'm doing as a business owner, or I don't connect with this brand anymore. Whenever any of those feelings, like, you know, there's all kinds of different things we might be experiencing. Um do it. Like reach out to Jess, have a conversation, talk through what you're experiencing and what you don't love, and and that let that be your starting point. I really think that there is like what you're going to experience on the other side. It is like, it's like going through like a little bit of a tunnel. You know, it's very scary entering in, and then you get to the other side and Like, oh my god, I had no idea all this possibility was on the other side. You're not the one thing I learned recently about letting go letting go opens up so much possibility. I'm like, if I had known this, I would have let go a long time ago, right? Why am I carrying around this bagpack? Right. So it's the same with it with this kind of transformation. Letting that like letting that transformation and that change happen opens up potential that like beyond your wildest dreams. So that's my vote for Jess and rebranding.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

And that's my that would be my advice for anybody, whether it's me or anybody else, because there are so many d talented designers out there. Um I'm I'm may not be the right person, but when you do go through a branding process with a designer, um, you gotta let you gotta let it go.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Is that another? Did we just have another frozen reference? Did I just throw out another frozen reference? It's coronation day and now we're letting it go.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Oh, see, so I didn't know that because I don't have frozen age children. Yeah. I'm showing me I know the let it go song because my niece has done it in a recital, and I I've also learned the dance moves she taught me, but I did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

Oh my gosh. I probably should have explained that a little bit more, but yes, I am a girl, hashtag girl mom, so show that's showing a little bit today. Oh my gosh. Well, um, I can't I can't thank you enough for coming today, Emily, and sharing everything with us. Um, can you tell people how they can get to know you more or what you have coming up?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yes, and thank you for having me. So it was so fun. Um, if you want to see Jess's brand in action, you can visit emilyaborn.com. I think that will get you everywhere. And then you can see all the fun stuff we do together. Um, there's lots of samples actually of Jess's work on my page. So um check it out. And and like I said, like if you are kind of sitting there on the fence, I think it does not hurt to just reach out and see what the process looks like for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. Um yeah, so if you guys enjoyed this episode, I'm gonna, we're basically gonna have we're gonna have Emily on again. So um go visit her website um and make sure to check out her podcast. Small business schedule. Yeah. Small business schedule. Um yeah, yeah, it's good, it's good, good, good stuff. Um, and yeah, again, thank you so much for being here today. This was so much fun to talk with you, and thank you everybody for listening. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, everyone. Bye.