Mentoring Moments with Dr. Ricky Papandrea

Former social studies teacher turned district leader Dr. Ricky Papandrea joins Rob to talk about building systems that serve the whole child — from AP access and concurrent enrollment to the bridge between academics and emotional support.

Key Takeaways:

• Counselors are the heartbeat of a school
• Data should inform, not drive, decisions
• One-size-fits-all post-secondary planning is outdated
• Students need space to fail and build resilience

Quote:

"A school truly prepares students for the future when it creates an atmosphere where kids aren't afraid to fail."

Connect

Guest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rpapandreajr/
Podcast: robwottawa.com/podcast
Hashtags: #RWMentoringMoments #RWMentoringMap #SchoolCounseling

Now, go and be someone's mentoring moment. 🗺️🎙️

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Mentoring Moments, Empowering Leaders to Mentor Our Future podcasts. I am Dr. Rob Wattawa and believe that through teacher and leader mentorship, we can impact our future through our influences on students. As much as we believe in the power and impact of mentorship, many shy away from this rewarding work. The goal of these episodes is to lean into the work with teachers and leaders, hear their stories, and have fun with the mentoring process. He is the director of school counseling and testing for K-12 for a school district. He is a former social studies teacher and a leader who spent his career connecting the dots between curriculum, counseling, and college readiness. He's working on implementing the New York State's social studies framework to expanding the AP access and launching concurrent enrollment programs with Nassau College, Community College, and his work is about creating pathways. His doctoral research examined how leaders navigate instructional change. And today he applies that lens to ensure every student graduates with meaningful opportunities. We're talking about systems that actually serve kids, right? The bridge between academics and emotional support. And of course, the fun part, whether he mentor a counselor who is amazing with kids but hates paperwork, or a data whiz who struggles to connect with families. Ricky, welcome to Mentoring Moments. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I'm doing well, and I want to thank you very much for having me. It's an honor to be here, and I really appreciate you taking the time uh to talk with me about what's going on and a lot of exciting things going on uh in the world today. Uh, for myself, uh working on the portrait of a graduate work and making sure that the district is aligning our academic expectations along with what New York State is rolling out and creating multiple pathways for our students to be able to earn their high school diploma.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

So it's very exciting. Uh you and I talk regularly about that topic because we feel like uh we feel like the state's kind of moving in a really fun, exciting direction, uh, you know, and providing opportunities for kids. And there's just the the opportunities for this is are endless. You know, you can go from the trades all the way up to the academic realm, and it's super amazing. Um, and that brings us right to our first kind of core area, which is the building systems that support the whole child. You know, you and I talk about the whole child all the time. So, you know, you oversee a lot of things, you know, and you've had experiences in the past where you've been an assistant principal, uh, you've done overseen counseling and testing and scheduling and post-secondary planning and all of those kinds of things, right? So when you're when you're doing it, do all of those things, what advice might you provide to somebody when you're thinking about designing systems that balance like the student academic journey and their social emotional well-being? And just making sure those things kind of stay separated and and they're not kind of just you know, they're they're never um, they're not just I don't know, they're just they're not separated. That's the word I was looking for. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Oh yeah, well, I think the really important thing is that you know, with students who have a lot going on in the outside world today, there are a lot more pressures on adolescents today, and that's really impacting, you know, their performance within school. Schools are dealing with a lot of different things, such as chronic absenteeism, dealing with students not performing well on academic tests or standards. And a lot of that can be traced to what's going on in the child's life at home. Uh and I think it's really important to make sure that when we're taking a look at children and providing support for children, we're looking at the holistic child that includes a social emotional as well as the academic piece. And a lot of times the academics is suffering because of a social emotional issue that may be going on outside the home. Um and I think it's really important to make sure that we're take taking into consideration what's going on, being empathetic uh for the situation that our children are in, uh, and making sure that we're providing a safe uh learning environment for students, you know, in the school. And I always go back to the uh belief that you have to Maslow before you can bloom, uh, and that you need to take care of those kind of uh elementary items first, you know, safety, shelter, food, clothing, uh, before you can really go on to self-accusation and you know those higher order thinking prompts.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

No, and I I absolutely love that, Ricky. Like the um the idea of uh how you said the you know the academics are impacted by the things that are at home, right? And we we talk about we never know what kids are walking in with, what's on their shoulders. And we have to take care of them first and let them feel like they belong and let them feel comfortable, and then yes, support that academic journey uh because if they're not safe, they're not fed, all that stuff, they're not gonna learn. And um, you know, so I I love that uh connection there. Um, and like you said, they they shouldn't be separated, you know, they have to be blended together, uh, and it's super important. So great stuff. Uh so what do you think is the biggest disconnect that you might see between how schools approach curriculum, right, and then how they approach counseling, right? And so the what advice would you give somebody to kind of bridge that gap?

SPEAKER_00 5:52

You know, I think both things kind of go hand in hand. I think that the counselors are providing that academic support for the students. They're the ones that are checking in with the students, making sure that they're progressing the correct way. They're the kind of academic gatekeepers, making sure that students are hitting those items on their transcript for graduation. They're the ones that are setting up the plans for those students. They're the ones that are really diving into the students and what their interests are and aligning the academic um programming at the high school level to kind of support what the students are looking to do outside uh of high school. And I think the counselors play a very vital role. And I think it's overlooked in a lot of districts where you know counselors are kind of seen as like a ancillary item uh for students, where it's really kind of you know the the heartbeat. And I think everything kind of runs through the counseling center. And I think districts that kind of recognize that are moving in the right direction and really supporting students the best way that they can.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I love that. Now let's let's kind of like lean in a little bit to that. So um oftentimes, and then you've you've heard this a thousand times, I'm sure, there's a I there's a disconnect between counselors and the conversations that counselors have, and then the disconnect to what the teachers are are saying and what they're hearing. So, how do we bridge that that so that curricular gap, meaning that what the teachers are are thinking about and saying and doing, and then what's going on with the counselors and the and the students.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

You know, I think it's really having the conversations and building the relationships with the teaching staff and really giving them a peek behind the curtain of what counseling is really all about and letting them see what counselors deal with on an everyday basis. You know, some people have that old school mentality that counselors have this cushy job where they're sitting in an office and they don't have to deal with kids all day long. But if you just spend an hour or two in the counseling center, you can see how over-inundated counselors get uh with social emotional crises, academic concerns, attendance concerns, CPS calls. Um, you know, we're kind of all over the place where it comes with uh dealing with issues uh that students are experiencing and really trying to connect students with, you know, the proper resources that they need, whether it's outside counseling, whether it's in school counseling, whether it's advocating for them with a specific teacher regarding maybe missing assignments or falling behind. Uh and the counselors really take that advocacy role to heart. And I think that that's really what the true heartbeat is. And I think that if we could kind of communicate that or even have teachers get that peek behind the curtain, I think that that would really help.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

As you were talking, I was thinking about my Kim and my wife is a is a social worker, and everyone tends to confuse like social workers and psychologists. And I think guidance counselors kind of fall into that that pit too, you know. So when I was an ENL director, part 154 required that I did like a presentation to the staff, you know, do a faculty meeting. Uh I would I wonder if if you would think that uh the guidance teams presenting to the faculty on here's the things that we do with kids every single day, if that might enlighten the teaching staff to understand the depths of what your counselors do on a daily basis. I don't know if that's something you've ever considered.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Something I never considered, but I've never seen it. But I think that that would be something that would really kind of give a teacher a peek into what the counselors are dealing with on an everyday basis. And I think there would be more collaboration and support uh between the two units uh if that took place. But I think also too, I think it's also important to have the counselors also understand what the teachers are going through on an everyday basis as well, because dealing with 125 kids, monitoring what's going on, uh they're seeing them every single day at the same time. They're the ones in the trenches with them. So teachers are also experiencing that as well. And I think that that's one of the unique things I bring to my role is being a former teacher and now in the counseling world, I kind of have the perspective from both sides, and I'm trying to bridge that gap uh where we're currently working.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

That's awesome. And you just bridged the gap of the transition to our next theme, which is uh class from the classroom to district leadership. Now, so you kind of moved through the ranks yourself, started as a social studies teacher. Um, and what grade level did you teach anyway?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Uh so when I was a teacher, I taught mostly 11th and 12th grade throughout my career. I was a teacher for 12 years. There was one year I did teach seventh grade, uh, so I did get exposure there. Uh I've done uh ninth grade, tenth grade, but the majority of uh my career was in 11th and 12th grade, US history, IB history, and uh government and economics.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Well, I'm sure with that, you know, classroom perspective, I'm sure there's over the time you were using data to kind of you know inform decisions, um and you were looking whether it be assessments or or um uh attendance trends or other different initiatives, right? So, you know, how does that lens, if you will, when you were in the classroom using that data kind of inform or or or help you make decisions now as a district leader?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Well, I think it's very important in the counseling world that counseling is all data driven in the decisions that we make and the things that we want to do for students, whether it's uh taking a look at student credit summaries, making sure that students are hitting those benchmarks each year to make sure that they're on track for graduation. Uh, we're taking a look at different data, such as marking period data and you know, running marking period averages and making sure that we're checking with students and making sure it's not getting away too long. And I think the more data that is provided to people, the more informed decisions that people can make uh and the better options for students. And when it comes to the counsel world, that's when we can pivot from the traditional graduation pathways and to explore other pathways for students who may not be successful based off the data. And that's where we can explore things like a CDOS credential, or we can do some more work-based learning uh for a student uh and try to find some of these non-traditional uh pathways. And I think that's one of the exciting things that's gonna be coming up at the Portrait of the Graduate is that these pathways are gonna be more plentiful and more built into uh the systems here so that every student is gonna be able to find their path in order to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, no, um I just want to point out two things uh that you that you said here. One is one that you said is uh you said data informed, right? And it's something that I learned years ago to change the language from data driven, right? To data driven to data informed, because as we were talking about earlier, we want to educate the whole child. And you know, when we look at data points, the data points are just numbers, and that doesn't tell the story of the kid. And you know, the guidance counselors and yourself, you know, you're working and trying to get to that story and trying to pass that story on to kids. And I want to kind of commend you, you know. I you know, you and I work really closely together, and you know, on the dot, every every quarter, you send out Excel spreadsheets with all of this data um to share out with the staff so we can start talking about some things and start to move some initiatives. And you know, you and I have talked about hoping to see some of that change, but I just want to commend you on doing that because you know you're talking about it, but I want to let people know that you live it too, you know, so that's super important. Uh let's let's transition a little bit to kind of see your doctoral work because I know that a lot of that stuff is is really kind of in your heart. Um, and you examined kind of leadership during uh chain uh curriculum change, and you want to, you know, is so is there is there a story that you might have, or um, or is there a piece of advice uh that you would have, like a time that maybe you had to lead teachers through a difficult transition? And then what was your kind of like your anchor, like the part that kept you steady through those difficult moments?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

When I was taking a look at my doctoral research, I really did it all over the implementation of the Soul Studies framework and that transition to these more literacy-based tests. And when I was examining the staff that I had at the time, I was trying to kind of really gauge what their strengths and weaknesses were. And what I found out is that there's really kind of a separation between teachers who have gone through teacher preparation programs within the last 10 years and uh teachers who have 10 or more years of experience, and that the approach with each group of those teachers has to be a little bit different in terms of what they need in order to be successful with this kind of new framework and this new way of teaching. And one of the things I discovered in my doctoral research is that the teachers that had 10 or less years of experience were trained in literacy, were trained in uh being able to have students identify the main ideas, compare and contrast documents. Where the teachers who had uh their teacher preparation maybe 15, 20 years ago, it was all history-based. Like all those teachers got into uh teaching history because they were history buffs, they loved the content, and the content is uh sacred and we can't do anything else but content because it's gonna take away from that. And uh that uh research really helped uh me identify what I needed to do to provide these two these teachers to be successful with the implementation of the new framework. And one of the things I did was I brought in an ELA specialist to train these teachers on how to um teach literacy uh in in social studies. And we really did a lot of work over two years with academic vocabulary and really focusing in on that. And what we saw was that we saw no dip when we transitioned over to the new framework exams from the old framework exams, where we exceeded both um the Nassau County and the state average uh on the global history regions in that first administration. And I really take the work of those teachers really kind of buying into that and looking at the research and looking at what they needed in order to be successful and providing those groups with those resources to achieve the goals.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Great. I mean, to dive into that anchor of the ELA specialist, you know, bringing them in and sticking to the goal of of um infusing ELA into the social studies curriculum. Now, it's funny when you were talking about that, I was thinking about my ENL hat and how so many times we would talk about teaching the language through the content, you know, and it's the same concept here uh that you are teaching, you know, social studies, yeah, and but you're using the language to to also to do those things. Um and and your research is uh has been you know really, really powerful for people. And I think um, you know, I think you've been trying to implement it in a way um in your in your leading, right? And also in how you are moving initiatives where we work. Um and I I hope to see amazing things in the next couple of months, even with this pathway work, because you know, what you just explained, you know, for ELA and social studies coming together is is a is a small uh you know brush of what is to come, you know, whereas you can have four different five different departments coming together to create an opportunity for kids. Uh and you know, we I I used to always love the concept of like what essential skills do kids need to be successful. And a lot of the times they're the soft skills, and you know, like elementary school, it's it's much easier to take a pause and bring kids together and do different things because the teacher's teaching all the things, but in a secondary program, especially high school with kids with nine period days, it's really and all the different departments, it's really hard to kind of see that collaboration. So um do you see in this pathway work uh the teachers departmentally coming together to create culminating experiences that are that are multi-interdisciplinary?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

I think ultimately that's what the goal of the Portrait of a Graduate is, to break down those barriers, to break down the differences between different departments and do more interdisciplinary work. Uh in my prior district, we did a lot of work at the middle school level in terms of interdisciplinary projects with all four main subjects. And I think that that's something that's really going to be coming to fruition because you see with the Portrait of a Graduate, New York State is also layering in things like climate education, personal finance. So you're taking like little dips into each one of these different areas and you're really trying to bring it together to have a holistic experience for a child, a true liberal arts education uh for students, and then also then specializing in a particular pathway that they're interested in that's gonna lead them to success uh, you know, after high school. So I think it's it's definitely a movement that we want to see. I'm a firm believer instructionally of you know project-based learning, inquiry-based, um, lessons in the classroom, because I think that's really what uh engages students. And as you mentioned before, uh that's also teaching them the soft skills uh along with the content, along with the literacy, uh coming all together, and then they can take that and transfer to whatever the other type of work they're gonna do. Because when they uh leave high school and go into the real world, it's gonna be inquiry-based stuff. You're gonna have to, you know, figure out what's going on and try to come up with a solution to it. You're gonna be working together with people, and you're gonna have to learn that skill of how to work with different um dynamics on a team. Um, and I think that New York State's really getting it right here with this transition. Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

You know, and I want to highlight uh something that you said. You mentioned uh bridging the gap between the high school and the middle school, right? And I I would further extend that as bridging the gap from elementary to middle as well. You know, in the portrait of a graduate work, that that project-based, inquiry-based, you know, um, you know, where the students are discovering, I like to call discovery learning, uh, you know, uh is exactly what we want them to do as they move into the workforce, whether they're academic workforce or trade workforce or military, you know, like you said, they're you know, highlighting the fact that they need to collaborate, they need to work together, they need to problem solve, all those things we all need to do. Uh, and you know, if when you read uh things of like what academic level do kids need to survive, it's really just a seventh grade education. And that it's just it's just gravy, you know. And you know, so if we could take that that that this work and think about it, K-12, because I think at an elementary school in general, our elementary staff are kind of engaging in those project-based, inquiry-based processes, and then like the students go to the middle school and it's just like it's dead in the water. And now all of a sudden, you know, then they're gonna go back to the high school and go back to that model. It's gonna be really confusing for kids. So um, I love how you're talking about you know, bridging those gaps and and and all those great things. So let's kind of talk about some of the kind of this tactical advice that you might have to moving through and creating these opportunities. Um, you've you've had um you've expanded the AP access, right, to a lot of different concurrent enrollment programs, you know, and and and you know, there's a lot of different colleges that we work with. So, what's kind of your your advice or what you would give people as a blueprint, right, for a school leader who wants to create more college credit opportunities, um, but might face, let's say, budget concerns or staffing pushback or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

I think it's all in how it's presented to the staff um and what you're trying to do. And I think that's really something that I've been at the forefront of with this AP initiative in the district we're currently working in. I hold an AP informational night. I have the AP teachers come and speak to the students to try to gain, you know, further access. And I think it's really important that the teachers understand that we're not focusing specifically on AP scores when a kid's taking an AP exam. Now it'd be great. We want everyone to get three or higher so they get the college credit. However, kids can still walk away with a lot of knowledge and a lot of skills by just going through the AP course. And whether they got a one or a two in the exam, they're still gonna walk away with an experience that's really going to set them up for better success in college. And the data even proves that. College boards put out a lot of information about how students uh learn the proper skills about studying, how to uh manage time, uh, and a lot of those soft skills that we talked about that students need to be successful. Success in college or in their careers. And I think it's really important to really kind of communicate that information, be transparent with the staff members. And I think really the thing with staff members is the pushback comes from they think that they're being judged based off of how the kids are performing on the exams. And I think that if the district philosophy or the building philosophy is on the student exposure and the student experience, and we communicate that clearly to the teachers, that we're not, you know, holding you hostage because of the scores that you're getting on on those exams, because we're really looking to try to increase this participation. I think that that's where you would get more buy-in. I think that's where kind of the biggest pushback is that teachers are concerned about the student scores and that they're going to be judged based off of those particular scores.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah, no, I I agree with you 100%. So let's let's uh you know let's push into that a little bit, you know. So I I think that the culture that we had over the years, you know, has been yes, teachers get assessed, you know, based on how they're doing on these these AP tests or even our recent exams. So how would you, you know, let's say you're in a culture that it is kind of a test heavy grade heavy culture, and now you want to pivot to be what you're talking about, which is we want to build the experience for kids because the experience is better. So even if they get a one on the test, just them being in the class is super important for them, right? So how do we how do we set that culture or shift that culture to be that mindset uh with our teachers so they so they feel like they're being um supported and that they're not in a gotcha setting?

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I think really important that it's communicated at every faculty meeting or district communication uh about what the goals are for the district, really expressing what the mission and vision is of this particular program. And I think that you can never overexplain what the goal of the school is or what the mission of the school is. And I think it's really important that every person in that building should be able to know what the the division and the mission is of the district uh because we should all be working towards that goal. So I think first it starts off with that communication. Second, I think it also relies upon, and this came from my research as well, uh, providing the professional development for teachers and not just assuming that teachers know how to differentiate um within the classroom. And in and differentiation in an AP classroom may look a lot different than it does in a regions classroom or an ICT classroom or a 15-1 classroom. Um so making sure that you're providing those professional development opportunities and it's not just a one-and-done type of professional development, that there's a series and follow-ups that are going on with this, and that those conversations being had at the building level and department level and district level uh to really infuse that. And I think that when all the different uh factors of a school district are working together towards that and having that common vision and uh mission statement that teachers buy into it and they recognize that because we're all using that shared language, that shared uh philosophy, that shared vision. And I think that that's really important in a school district and really setting the expectations for what we we're looking for with the staff.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah, no, I think you and I have talked about that before, um, with uh, you know, thinking with the end in mind, right? Um that that curriculum development, the backwards design, you know, and you know, the book, the uh the book that I read years ago talks about how you know if if your kindergartners can't tell you what the vision of the school is, you know, you're you're not your your vision's not clear, you know, and and you're right. So I think you know, if you're if you're looking to shift the building culture in a an experience-based AP program rather than a test-based program, you know, you start with the culture of the building, and then of course we'd have to ship the culture of the district. So kids, even at the youngest age level, they know that, okay, well, I I I earned this on the test, but that doesn't mean that that's me. You know, like the the idea that, you know, um, I think it was um uh the I can't remember her name all of a sudden, but she uh did a pop uh and a TED talk and she talked about you know the kid got a plus two, you know, because a plus two is better than than a zero, you know, a negative ten, you know. So yeah, so giving that those kids that encouragement I think is so so important, and setting those shared visions. Uh, and that's that kind of was writing down you talk about shared vision, mission statements, um, and communication is so key in professional development, you know, that those are all things that that I think that we have to use to set a positive culture for our kids. So, all right, my friend, we're we are on the 24-minute mark or so, and uh we're gonna move towards our RW rapid fire questions. And these are the questions that you had ahead of time. So um, I'll give you some time to breathe through it if you want. But the first question is would you rather mentor a counselor who's amazing with kids but hates paperwork, or a data whiz who struggles to connect with families?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

I think every day of the week I would take the counselor that has a connection with the students because everything else can be taught or trained. Um, I think that that's really the essence of what a school counselor is, is making connections with families, making connections with students. And if someone doesn't have that ability or that skill, it becomes very difficult to kind of teach that on the fly, where I can teach someone how to use Excel, how to look at data, how to pull a report, you know, what to do when you see this particular number. But um if you don't like kids, it's gonna be very difficult to make those connections.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Yeah, you and I talk about that all the time. And, you know, I'm I'm really, really purposeful about uh questions that I like to ask people uh in an interview process, you know, and one of my questions I ask is why do you want to be a teacher? And that question is really designed to get to their core of whether or not they like kids, you know, because like you just said, I can teach you the things, but I can't teach you to love kids, right? So it's um super, super important. All right, and number two is what is the most well-intentioned but outdated practice you've seen in school school counseling and or testing?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

I think the biggest thing is the one size fits all post-secondary planning. I think today there are so many different options for students outside of high school that college is not necessarily the only track that kids have to go on, that you have all these CTE uh technical training. Take a look at someone like um Suffolk County Community College having one and two year certificate programs where kids don't even have to uh attend for more than a year. And then they get certification within a particular field to go into and get a job and a high-paying job at that. And I think there's a lot of uh union and trade jobs that are out there that uh make a lot of money, and that there are some of those jobs where kids are gonna go into that job and make more money right away than a kid who has a four-year degree. And I think that kids need to have exposure to all those different options as opposed to kind of this cookie-cutter mentality that we've had for maybe the last 20 years or so, is that the expectation is that every single kid is going to college and we gear our entire program towards that goal and that mission. And I think that's doing kids a disservice because if they don't, you know, get into college or are not successful in college, then they feel like a failure. Where no, there's a lot of different opportunities here where you can actually probably be more successful and make more money than you know, some people getting a college degree.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Absolutely true. You know, uh I think you and I talked about this. I had a former friend of mine in another district that that had a student that was struggling, um, still did graduate, right? But you know, basically had like a uh left the building really early and opened up a landscaping business and was wound up making, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars opening up their own landscaping business. And that's a perfect example of those soft skills being successful and that the one size fits all does not work for kids. So great. All right. So what do you prefer? Um, an SAT prep session or a college application essay workshop?

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Take the college essay workshop any day of the week as well. Uh, I think that's more important. Um, I think that any student going to college has to write a college essay. Not every student going to college has to take an SAT or an ACT right now. So I definitely think in the world today of test optional and test blind, that if you had a pick or choose between the two, I think the college essay is going to give you more bang for your buck uh and reach more students and provide them the skills that they need in order to um be successful on that. And I think one of the things that kids lack confidence in is writing about themselves. Um, because all the writing that we do throughout high school is really about different things, and they really don't really focus on themselves and writing about their journey or something that they overcame. And I think it's really important to kind of provide them the resources to be successful in writing about themselves.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

That's wonderful. So, as you were you were answering and talking through some things, I was thinking about you know what I've been doing on the podcast and what the you know what we've been talking about. And I I realized that I should probably ask this question at every episode. And I'm gonna start to do this right before our mic drop closer question. I'm gonna ask you if you would share uh with with the audience here um a mentor that has impacted you um and how they shaped you and your leadership.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Probably the person who's had the most influence on me as a leader has been um Anthony McNella. He's the current superintendent at the Baldwin uh Union Free School District. Um, and when I worked there under him when he was the assistant superintendent, he really kind of opened my eyes to this kind of holistic view and not having the blinders on when I was in charge of the self-studies department and just focusing on self-sides, but really kind of seeing the big picture how all these different pieces commingle and how a decision being made in one department can have cascading or consequences on other departments as well. And that, yeah, it's good to be able to advocate for your department and your teachers, but you also have to take into consideration the school and the district as well. And where does that fit in? And does that align with the division and omission uh that we're looking for? And I think that that really gave me a great perspective in my leadership and being more open-minded and having that 30,000-foot view over things as opposed to just you know concentrating on my own work and not really caring about what the unintended consequences are of my decisions.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

That's wonderful. So that's great. Thank you. And our last mic drop closer question is finish this sentence. A school truly prepares students for the future when it dot notes when it provides the opportunities for students to discover themselves, to uh to work through problems and that you create an atmosphere where kids aren't afraid uh afraid to fail.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Uh failing, I think, is this really negative connotation um in schooling and and from parents and from districts, but you learn more in your attempts to do something than you do if you're successful in the first attempt. And I think that we need to have students kind of go through that to build their resilience and to build some of those other soft skills that they're gonna need later on in life, because there are decisions that I make, there are decisions you make, there are decisions that superintendents make that work out great, and then there's other ones that uh it doesn't work out as intended, and sometimes you have to pivot and be you have to have that resiliency to be able to pivot. So I think that it's important to kind of really create that atmosphere where kids can really kind of explore and try themselves, because in the grand scheme of things, high school is kind of that time period where you can kind of experiment and where you can um you know learn from your mistakes and and and really move forward in a positive direction for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah, the acronym I always love is FAIL, first attempt in learning, right? And and that's like that growth mindset. I love the idea of because you said discovering themselves, you know, and and and taking the risks. You know, I love the the concept of when uh Abigail, my youngest daughter, had a math teacher that when they they did a test and they got things wrong, they had they got the opportunity to do test for corrections and learn and explain why they made the mistake. And they actually had to write it out. Uh, and that opportunity set her up to to understand that failing and making mistakes is really ball about growing. So, Ricky, my friend, we're do we're just we're just about at our time here. I would love for you to kind of share your final thoughts with our audience, um, anything that's going on in your mind, or uh any final thoughts for our audience.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

No, I think that the the biggest thing is that we have to keep in mind what's in the best interest of students. And I think that that is the grounding thing that really keeps me going uh every single day as a school administrator is that I'm coming to work every day trying to do the best in doing right by children. And I think that every administrator needs to kind of have that mindset in order to move it forward. Sometimes we kind of get lost in the sauce a little bit about all these different outside noises, but in the whole reason why we got into this profession is to help out students. And I think that that's really the benchmark that you really have to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yeah, your mission and your vision is always to be a leader who serves, and that is so powerful. And and you know, walking into the door of how can I help you? Uh, you and I had a parent interaction a couple of weeks ago, and we walked in with that how can I help you mentality, and it really changed the outcome for that child and that parent. So um keep living the lit the life, keep keep forging forward and living it that that way, my friend. Um, thank you so much, Ricky, for being part of Mentoring Moments, and um thank you to everyone that's listening, and be well, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.