Mentoring Moments with Mary Esposito

What does it look like to mentor someone through every single grade level — from kindergarten to senior year?

Mary Esposito — a 34-year veteran of education, 26 of those as a school administrator, and currently the SAANYS Mentor Program Coordinator for New York State — joins Rob to talk about mentoring across generations, why elementary and secondary leaders need each other, and what new administrators are most afraid of.

From teaching high school world language to leading elementary schools as principal, Mary has done it all. Now she's dedicated to helping school leaders across New York navigate the waters of administration and become their best selves.

Plus, she answers the RW Rapid Fire.

Now, go and be someone's mentoring moment. 🗺️

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Also, visit my website so I can feature your questions!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Mentoring Moments, Empowering Leaders to Mentor Our Future podcast. I am Dr. Rob Watua and believe that through teacher and leader mentorship, we can impact our future through our influences on students. As much as we believe in the power and impact of mentorship, many shy away from this rewarding work. The goal of these episodes is to lean into the work with teachers and leaders, hear their stories, and have fun with the mentoring process. Hello everyone and welcome to mentoring moments. This is our 17th episode here on our podcast, and I am so delighted to have an amazing guest that I've gone really close to in the last couple of years through my connections with Saini's. And I'll give her an introduction in just a minute. But the question, of course, that we want to talk about is what does it look like to mentor someone through every single grade level from kindergarten to senior year? Well, meet Mary Esposito. She is a 34-year veteran of education, 26 of those years as a school administrator, and currently is the Saney's mentor program coordinator for the entire state of New York. It is amazing. From teaching high school world language to leading elementary schools as principal, she has guided students and families at every aspect of the journey. And now she's dedicated to helping school leaders across New York State navigate the waters of administration and becoming the best versions of themselves. Today we're talking about mentoring across generations, why elementary and secondary leaders need each other, and of course, whether she'd rather mentor a middle school assistant principal or an elementary principal of the year. So, Mary, welcome to mentoring moments. How are you doing? What's new?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Thanks, Rob. Thanks for having me. That was a wonderful introduction. I really appreciate that. Um, yeah, I'm so happy to be here and excited to talk to you. This is my first podcast, so I'm very excited.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yes, it was really nice to catch up before we started hitting record. And I know that you're you're underway with um, you know, kind of moving into the following year, just like a school, school administrator. You know, we're we're wrapping up one year and starting another, you know, and then it's you're probably in the same mindset at Saney's.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

That's right. It's cyclical, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, it's it's it's a wonderful, wonderful opportunity. So we're gonna dive right into our first theme, which is um a career across all grade levels. You know, you've spanned a lot of of leadership across your career, and um you are now working with, you know, every type of leader across our state, which is fantastic. So, with that in mind, what is the biggest misconception that you think elementary and secondary leaders have about each other? And then how might we bridge that relationship gap or that thought gap?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, so um elementary school and uh secondary school leaders have more in common than you think. Um, I do think that, you know, uh they they work, they work hard no matter what, and the work is different, right? Um, you know, if you're a high school administrator, a middle school administrator, you know, you're dealing with different problems, right? You're dealing with adolescents, you're dealing with uh, you know, career planning, college planning, things like that. You know, and when you're an elementary principal, you know, you're just getting to know these little people and you know, you know, help form them, you know, in their journey of becoming a human being. And that and that comes with a lot of bumps along the way. Um, I mean, I've done both. And the work is hard, but the word work is also very satisfying. And I think that the more that elementary leaders and secondary leaders can actually get together and talk about their work um and find common ground, I think that that is going to be key in, you know, in getting them to, you know, understand each other and really uh be able to appreciate the the hard work that goes into both.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Uh, there is that common ground that I think they often miss when you're talking with them about it. And you brought up a great point about uh elementary, you know, students and parents, you know, they're they're leave they're handing off their babies for the first time, and they they need like a really big set of training wheels, right? Because they really need that comfort level. And at the secondary level, they're kind of at the end of the journey, and parents are like, okay, let them go. And as different as that sounds, there's so much support that's needed in both of those areas. And I would think that a building principal at the secondary level and at the elementary level could get in a room together and talk about working parents through those challenging family decisions, you know, and and that's what you're speaking to. And I really, really love that. Um, and we talk about that regularly, that we have more commonalities than differences. Uh, we just have to figure it out sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not it's not us against them, you know, uh elementary against secondary, or they have it easier, they have it easier, this job is harder. And, you know, it's just about like you said, working with families and you know, helping that, you know, that family through the traject trajectory of K K through 12 education. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

And it's it's it's funny because I've I I'm really close to elementary principals, and oftentimes I'll hear them say things like, we're not as important as the high school, you know, because high school's got bigger kids, bigger problems, so the cops are showing up, you know, there's all kinds of different things going on. You know, but I you know what I and I always say to my elementary teachers and in my elementary principals, you know, you can't have high school without elementary. You know, you can't have a strong program, you know, in the World Language Department if you don't have a strong, you know, middle school program. You can't have a strong education program if you don't have great readers coming up to the school, you know, and that takes great leadership. And it's just funny because I feel like elementary principals sometimes fall in that little place of like, ah, we're not important. And I'm like, no, you're the most important.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

And I also found out, Rob, that, you know, being on both ends, that articulation between the grade levels is critical. And um many times middle school administrators, high school administrators reached out to me when I was an elementary school principal to talk about a family, you know, some issues that they've been having, you know, with a child, and and the insight that, you know, I was able to provide based upon history and things like that is so important. Um, and and I just think, you know, within a school system, working together is absolutely key.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

100%. You know, and you said it beautifully with your articulations. You know, my wife is a social worker, you know, and she talks regularly about those articulation meetings, and I have them with my departments. And it's so important to get together and talk about, you know, as we transition to different buildings and the insight that, you know, the the the former teacher or the former administrator leader um can offer the next person. So after 34 years, right, what's the one piece of wisdom or advice that you impart about kids that's kind of remained true over all of generations or all grade levels uh across time?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

You have to just meet everybody where they're at, you know? Um it's so important. Um I have a daughter that's about to embark as uh as into the teaching field, right? Um and you know, we have conversations all the time. Um right now she is an elementary um special education teaching assistant. And uh the work is hard. And we talk a lot about, you know, just you know, meet the child where they're at. And I don't think that's really ever changed um, you know, since you know, the very beginning when I started. You know, you have certain expectations that you have for your course, your curriculum, your school, your your grade level, whatever it is. Um, but it's just so important to know the student and get to know the student, get to know the family, find out, you know, what what's the backstory to it in order to help that student or that family achieve their goals. Um, I I think that's been consistent throughout all time.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I agree. I was today I was with a uh person that we just hired as a leave replacement, first-time teacher, you know, we were talking about this this topic about how it's about the relationships and getting to know your kids and you know that old quote, you know, you're gonna forget what you said, you're gonna forget what they did, but you never forget how they made them feel uh and and how important those aspects are. You know, and one of the things that that I've been trying to flip the script on is people talk about classroom management. And when we talk about management, that's like a top-down thinking, you know. But let's call it classroom leadership. You know, if the teacher is talking about classroom leadership and we can get to that relationship core so kids feel like they belong and they're part of the class, um, I think that's really, really powerful.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

And it's so cool that your your daughter is gonna join you join the ranks of a special education, she's gonna be a special education teacher, or is she actually is um going to be her her she's aspiring to be a math teacher um somewhere in you know the middle school through high school age levels, so uh somewhere in the secondary realm. So she does her student teaching next year and uh she's very excited about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

That's wonderful. Yeah, that's really, really great. And I would imagine her experience that she's gaining in the special education realm is going to help her build those empathy skills that we need. Because, like you had said, meet the kids where they are. I love that phrase, and we always say it, and we say that the you know education is cyclical and the pendulum keeps winging back and forth. But the thing that's always true is that relationship piece, and and I the one of the things I like to talk about with leaders is we talk to our teachers all the time. You have to differentiate, differentiate, meet kids where they are. Well, leaders, we have to differentiate to our teachers, and we have to make sure that we're meeting our teachers where they are, because a new teacher like your daughter is gonna need something very different than a teacher that's been teaching for 15 years. You know, and so uh as leaders, we have to do the same. All right, awesome. So thank you. So mentoring through Sani's, so we're gonna pivot a little bit into your your work as a Saney's and put that Sani's hat on. So you've been um you've been at Sani's now with as the mentoring program coordinator um for quite some time. Um you've been shaping leaders across New York State. What do you think is the most common fear for new administrators that they may bring to you and how might you unpack that fear with them?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, so um I think as a new admin, as new administrators, I think they're just afraid of perception, um, how they're being perceived, how they're being perceived by staff, how they're being perceived by their community, by their, you know, their superiors, um, and you know, just trying to just know everything that has to be done in that first year, the first two years, just knowing the people, places, and things, and and just trying to manage the schedule and just get it all to work. Um, but the big, I think the big, big fear for them is just, you know, just wanting to do a good job and and being recognized and and um you know for doing that the job as as best as they can. Um, you know, knowing that there are gonna be issues along the way. There are always bumps along the way. So um I I think that's it. And and I think the most important thing, especially with us from Saini's, is not not leaving them by themselves. Like, you know, don't be on an island. Um, you're you have so many supports that you can reach out to. And really, that's what we do at Saini's. We're really, we're really there to support our new leaders, our aspiring leaders, uh, leaders that are changing positions. Um, we're there to support them in any way that we can to be successful.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

And it's really nice to have an organization that does that. You know, we've talked about this in the past, like the old school of teachers of, you know, welcome to my school, there's your classroom, see you in June. You know, and unfortunately, I feel like administrators have the same challenge. You know, you're hired, you know, your assistant superintendent says, Congratulations, there's your office, good luck. Now what? Now what, right? Yeah, exactly. And even though New York State has a required mentoring program, it not a lot of districts are actually doing that for leaders, which is a challenge in of itself. But you did mention, you know, you're right, there's so many things that that uh a new administrator has to kind of you know check the boxes on. There's so many different things, right? So, and then you talked about uh, you know, building up relationships with people. So is there a tactical piece of advice that you would give like a new administrator that's facing all of those check the box items, right? But then how they could kind of you know put people first, you know, people before paper is what one of my friends does all the time. You know, how can you get them to do that?

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I love that, put people before paper, absolutely. Um, I encourage whenever I do coaching with with um with my mentees, I encourage them to um to make appointments with all of their staff. Um and not just do it that first time, you know, to kind of get to know you type of thing, but try to really be really mindful and and um and meet with those people to get to know them on a personal level, a professional level, you know, uh not just have it be that, you know, that observation, um, you know, pre-conference, post-conference, and just, you know, kind of get it done type of thing, but really to be able to have, you know, meaningful conversations with them and really get to know them on a deeper level. I think that teachers that do that with their students have more successful results. And I think administrators that do that with their teachers and with their staff members also have more successful results. I think that, you know, teachers uh really appreciate the administrator who goes above and beyond to get to know that teacher as a person. So that when when that teacher does have, you know, whether it's an issue with a child or a family or you know, they're just struggling with, you know, with curriculum or just trying to get it all done, I think that, you know, that that empathy piece comes into play when, you know, you really can put yourself in the shoes of that teacher, know what they're going through, whether it's, you know, the makeup of their class is just particularly difficult this year, or they're having, you know, a difficult family that, you know, just that they're not able to resolve issues with, or, you know, just sometimes it could be personal matters. Um, and you know, I I just think empathy goes a long way. I think getting to know the people you work with so closely on a daily basis really is um, you know, is so helpful to make that first year and the years that follow successful years.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

You just made me re-realize why you and I get along so well. Because it's it's exactly what so it's funny as you're saying this, make appointments with people. I literally last week made appointments with my veteran teachers because I'm in a new district this year, so I'm trying to build relationships. So I'm doing my my half-year check-ins with people and you know, making those purposeful appointments, those meaningful things. And the teacher, I what my question that I'm asking them, first question I'm asking them is, you know, what is different this year that you want more of? You know, to really trying to get, you know, them to talk about the things that that they appreciate so I can make sure I continue to do those things. And this the consistent message is doing those small things, you know, that that I've done observations, but I walk through and I check in with people and I know that they're buying a new house or I know that they have you know a new child being born. Like those small things make the hugest difference for them.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

So you you just kind of for me was like, oh, I am doing Yeah, and you're and you're so intentional with it too, which is which is great because it's not just happening happening haphazardly, it's you know being very intentional with it. And that's awesome that you're having those conversations with them. It's terrific.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, John Maxwell says if you can't name your your people that you're leading their kids or their dog, then you're not doing the right thing. You got to get to know your people. Um, and and it comes from that point of teachers are leaders and leaders are teachers. You know, we talk about how teachers have to treat kids. Well, how should leaders treat teachers? You know, and and you said it beautifully in the sense that you know, we have to walk door to door and make the connections just like our kids make connections with our teachers. So I I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that that piece. Now, is there a story that you might have like of a mentee, let's say, that came to you feeling like super overwhelmed and um, you know, kind of whatever the topic was, and what what is kind of your go-to first move when somebody's like in that panic mode?

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, so wow, okay. Um, I think listening, first of all, kind of letting the individual just kind of vent a little bit, get it all off of their chest. Um, I think listening uh without judgment and trying to, you know, necessarily solve their problem all the time is very helpful. Um, oftentimes people come to their own solutions when they can just have the opportunity to um just to really talk and and and feel heard. Because oftentimes, you know, we get frustrated as human beings because we have a lot on our plate, we feel overwhelmed, and we don't feel that people understand or or support us in that. So I think that listening is who comes first. Um and then asking the question, you know, like um, what is it that I can do to support you? Um is also very helpful because you don't want to give support that they don't need um and advice that they don't need. So, you know, you really want to kind of hone in on what is it exactly that they would like from you to support them with. So I think those those are some things that I would do.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

I love that. And you know, I I the the analogy that I use with teachers is you're born with two ears and one mouth, you know, listen twice as much as you speak, you know, and uh listening is really hard. It's a skill that you have to teach yourself, um, especially as a leader. And one of the things that I've learned over the years is is our our cell phones are our our major enemy. You know, so when I meet with a teacher, or a teacher comes in and just pops in, the first thing that I do with my phone is I put it in my pocket. This way it's not a distraction. You know, I want to send the message that you're important, I want to listen to you, and nothing is gonna distract that moment from us. Uh, you know, and then you talked about questions. I I love that in the idea of you know, you listen to somebody and then you ask questions to prod them further because you want to listen more, right? And that's really, really powerful. Um, and I and the question that you asked, uh I'm gonna rephrase it a little bit. What does support from me look like to you? Right? That's such a powerful question because now you're getting to them of like, you know, their lens. What does it look like?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I I really like the way you rephrase that.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

You know, like you know, that what does it look like? You know, because we can say, well, you know, how can I support you? And that's a great question, but when you when you phrase it in a way that they have to actually visualize it, it's really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I'm gonna rephrase that and use it.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Steal it all away. That's what we're here. We're all here to grow together. Um, I've learned so much from you over the last couple of years, and and thank you for all the opportunities that you've given me. And we're gonna transition to our tactical advice for aspiring and new leaders. And our my first question here is so we talked a little bit about like your go-to, like when somebody's overwhelmed. So, what is your what would be like your five-minute you know, grounding ritual, like the thing that you're going into a situation for let's say a new principal um is going into a difficult, difficult meeting with parents and and staff members, and like what do you do before, like mentally before you you you walk into that room with those angry parents and and that principal's coming to you and saying, Well, help me.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah. Um, I I I love working with parents, and I think that for many administrators, I feel like that is a that is an area that they fear the most because um, you know, they're they're afraid of you know the conversations that might come out of, you know, a parent that is upset about something, about their child. And uh the best advice that I can give with that is first of all, that you know, um pretend like you know, you know, their their their child is your child. And it's like what would you want for your own child? Now you you know obviously the other story that you know, the other side of the story that maybe the parents don't understand because you know, the perspective and things. But um honestly, you know, just do what's right for the child. Um and sometimes doing what's right for the child may not be perfectly in line with what the parent thinks is going to be right for the child, but you know, just stick to your belief of what is going to be best for the child in that situation. Um, and again, like go in um with being a good listener, right? So, you know, you you have to practice being a good listener to what the parent's concern is, um and um really try to understand. I I you know I've never I I I've always I've always been able to, you know, kind of de-escalate a situation that that is really hard at the moment when a parent is coming in hot with something by just you know saying, listen, I'm here. I'm here for the best interest of your child as well. Please help me to understand, you know, what what is going on so that we can get to you know the root of the matter and and and find solutions together. Um and sometimes those solutions include the child as well. So um I think it's I think it's important to listen. Uh we oftentimes as administrators were under so much pressure and under like tight schedules and timelines to just get things done, make decisions, move on to the next thing, and kind of like, you know, wrap up a little prematurely sometimes. And and I think we we fail to really to listen and to and to help come to solutions together.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

We're here to serve, we're here to, you know, help your child in the best of way that they can. I think you know, you you said it, you know, we we know that the listening is really important, but also um the one of the things that I I do with my teachers too, but even with parents, is is after you you hear their story, um, let me understand that I'm hearing you correctly, and then reiterate. Oftentimes when you have that angry, Iry parent, and you know, and you re- rephrase their story, their concerns, they feel heard and they're like, Oh, you get it. Like, yes, and then and then sprinkle in some stories, you know, like uh, you know, it always always works when you sprinkle in stories of your own children and how how their story relates to your personal life.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

I was just about to say something like that as well. Yeah, yeah. So you know, let them know that you get them.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, yeah, it's so huge, you know. And um, it's it's it's I you know, I say common sense isn't that common, but it's true. You know, you if you can get on their level and have them understand that you're there to support them through this, that it's a win. It's a total win.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

So and say something positive about their kid, you know, just say something nice that you know you you think is you know really something that they do really well. That's important, you know, it's important for parents to hear that as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, yeah. So that's great. So, you know, as you are working with kind of aspiring leaders, right? And I'm sure you've seen aspiring leaders go into spots that you're like, oh my goodness, you know, so what what what's the one question you wish every aspiring leader would kind of ask themselves before they take the leap into administration?

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I I think the the most important question is does this job fit? Am I a good fit for this place? Um, you know, it's not it's not about necessarily always about the position and climbing the you know the career ladder. It's about does this make sense at this time in my life? Does it align with you know what else is going on in my personal life? Um does this district, does this school um align with my own, you know, my own mission, um, the mission of the school is is do I believe in it, you know, because you just you set yourself up for failure when you're trying to fit the square peg in the round hole. You know, you really have to try to make sure that this is a place where you envision yourself, like you see yourself doing great work here. And I think if you can really get excited about a job and really, you know, feel that, you know, this is exciting. I'm I I see myself doing well here. I see myself, you know, um loving this job um and and having it be a good fit, you know, just just know that, you know, just don't just don't take any old job. Like just make sure that, you know, you are you're being very, very careful with with what you're selecting.

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Yeah, you know, I had a friend of mine that said to me, you know, even if you were going into the superintendent, Tennessee to do the research, know the culture of the district, know the culture of the building, uh, know what you're walking into, and and make sure that you fit the place. You know, as much as you you you you think the place is gonna fit you, you have to fit the place. Um it's so, so important. Um, and you talk about the sense of time in your life that you know, I can't stress that enough. You know, I was speaking with a teacher, uh, actually, it was today, actually. She is uh young baby at home, probably about two or three years old, and uh is looking to do her administrative internship. And you know, the conversation about timelines of when she wants to become an administrator and leader. And we had that conversation of like, well, where where are you at as a parent, you know, and and how much time can you take away from home and how far is your drive? You know, all those, those, those really kind of black and white, nitty-gritty questions. But they're so important because when you take the leap, you know, you you oftentimes you know you're there until sometimes 10 o'clock at night working through some challenges, or you're going to an evening event, and you know, there's times that you're getting pulled away from things at home. And if you're, you know, if your children are young and they need you, you're not going to be able to just to dive all the time into your your position. So I'm so glad that you you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah, it's scary. And you really and things change, and sometimes they change from one year to the next. Um, I had uh, you know, I have twin girls, and when they were three years old, the principalship in my building, my the building where I was AP was available. And, you know, and people didn't understand why I wasn't going for it. And I said, this is just not the right time. Like this is just not the right time. And then the very next year, they were only four years old at that time, just a year later, a principalship in my district opened up. And all of a sudden, it's it felt different to me. It felt like this is the right time. Um, it was the right fit. You know, I really thought about it and and I and I saw myself in this position. So it it really, you know, you just have to be really introspective and um and just you know have good hard conversations with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, self-talk and like you said, you know, vision, vision yourself in that position. I I love that um aspect. All right, my friend, we're moving on to our RW rapid fire questions that I had given you ahead of time. So we'll have some fun with these. Okay. And our all right, so our first one is would you rather mentor a middle school assistant principal or an elementary principal of the year?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Middle school assistant principal.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Ah, so why?

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Um, I just think that the assistant principalship is uh such an amazing position. Um it's you you're just doing everything. And um it's it's usually an entry-level position. So it's it's just something that I feel uh I could be very helpful and useful to somebody who is just learning the ropes, like fresh.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, you and I are similar in the sense that my jam is the first year teachers, first year administrators. Um, you know, so when I phrased that question, I was like, you know, this is the idea of, you know, do you want to be the person that's getting the person off the off the ground or getting the person that's kind of leaving off you know on their way or has the has the self-confidence to do the job? Great.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

So uh number two, what's the most well-intentioned but outdated advice that you've heard early in your career?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

So this is a good one. Okay, the assistant principal should be hated, and the principal should be feared.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yep. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

That's like the don't smile till it's Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Yeah, that's though, and it's so funny because when when you go to like admin 101 classes and you start talking to people and you start learning about the different leadership styles, there is still kind of that old school mentality in some places. And then you start to read leadership books and you start to understand, like, no, this is about relationships. And you're like, wait a minute, when I was a teacher, I did this stuff, but now I'm an administrator and I'm not doing this stuff. And it's so it's so funny how um people don't make those connections of of of um the relationships and the care and the love and the passion. So all right, my friend. So what do you prefer? Do you prefer a morning coffee ritual or an end-of-the-day debrief?

SPEAKER_00 30:41

Well, I would say the end-of-the-day debrief because um I think that that's when people are kind of more available. Um, you know, in the morning, people are getting ready for their day. Um, and then at the end of the day, they kind of processed what has happened. And um I I and I think I have I have actually captured better conversations with people at the end of the day, even though you might say like we're exhausted, we're ready to, you know, just pack it up and go home. Um, I think the end of the day has been um far more productive in many ways.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

I you know it's funny that you know, as you're answering that question, I'm thinking about myself, right? And I'm thinking there's a podcast I was listening to today, and it talked about how you know you we always want to improve our team. And we a lot of times we lean into our team. How do we improve our team? How do we improve our team? And oftentimes, if we improved ourselves, we would improve our team. So to spend time focusing on ourselves. So for me, the my morning coffee ritual is about me. I read a I read a passage, I read a little bit, and about me growing and becoming a better leader. And the end of the day is when my teachers are coming in my office and saying, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now I get really productive at the end of the day because they want to spend that time with me. So that's a really cool um uh piece that that I actually forgot about. For so for me, I was thinking about the coffee, and you just brought in the end of the day. I'm like, yes, I can't tell you how many times that end of the day is so important for for me, for you, for all of us leaders to, you know, you have that door open for your office.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, they're leaving.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

And they're like, they're like, you got a minute? Like, come on in, you know, and it's it's huge. So so um, great. So uh here's our final mic drop closer, and then I'll give you a little bit of time to give us a you know some final words. So finish this sentence for us, Mary, right? Okay, so after 34 years in education, I've learned that leadership isn't about having all the answers.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

It's about uh it's not about having all of the answers. It's about asking more questions, it's about listening, it's about learning, improving yourself, um, and just wanting to grow every single day, learning something new. And I I have to say that even up until the very last day when I walked out of my building as a principal in 2024, I learned something that day. And I think that is critical. I think just constantly being open to learning new things.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

100%. That's wonderful advice uh for our teachers that are just beginning, for our leaders that are just beginning, and even our veteran leaders and teachers, because sometimes we lose lose track of things, we might fall into the valley and we need to come out of that valley, and and learning and mentoring always helps us. So I'll give you some some time here for any final words of advice, any final thoughts for our audience, and um anything you'd like to share.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah, so uh advice that I would give is that you know, being an administrator can be a very lonely place if you allow it to be lonely. And what's really important is that as an administrator at any stage of the game, whether you're brand new, fresh coming in, or whether you, you know, you're a seasoned administrator, you know, don't don't don't be behind closed doors. Um, you know, open those doors, speak to people, uh, speak to your colleagues, um, you know, just talk to them and and learn things from them. Reach out to to people. Don't feel like you always have to solve a problem all by yourself. Um know that, you know, that together, you know, you can you can be so much better. So um, you know, reach out. And and as new new administrators, please know that Saney's is here, we're here for you. And um, you know, the the mentor coaching that we provide is is all confidential. Um, you know, we don't work for the school district, we're not reporting back to the school district, we're not evaluating um the mentee in any way. We're there to be their thought partner, uh, sounding board, and just um, you know, help them navigate the um, you know, the first couple of very tumultuous years of administration.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Wonderful, thank you. And my my final question that I've been incorporating into my podcast now is this is mentoring moments, right? So is there a mentor that you had had that has shaped you as a leader and what and or has made you who you are? So share if you have one of those wonderful people.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

You know, um, I I can think of three right off the top of my head that people that, you know, just were there for me at different stages and levels. So, you know, I had an assistant superintendent. Um, her name is Bedelia Fries, and she was the one who hired me uh as an assistant principal and believed in me, you know, coming out of a foreign language classroom to, you know, become a middle school assistant principal. And uh, you know, she was someone that I really um wanted to, you know, emulate in terms of you know the way, the way she, you know, led uh the school district. And so she was she was a great mentor for me when I first started out as as a um as a new administrator. And uh and believe it or not, when I um of course you can believe it, but a a teacher was a mentor to me, to me. So when I went from secondary to elementary, I was the only principal in the building, so I didn't have another admin in the building. So I was all by myself. And there was a very, very special teacher. Her name is Robin Ackerman, and um, she helped me a lot in in terms of learning about elementary education. And um, she was just phenomenal, and uh it was great. Like just reach out, reach out to people. They don't they don't have to be, you know, administrators, they could be teachers, they could be office staff. They they can be your mentors.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yes, I say that to my brand new teachers when I first meet them. I said we're going to be mentoring together, we're on a learning journey together. I'm gonna learn just as much from you as you're gonna learn from me. Um, and and you are the perfect example of that, you know, like you say, and going in and learning from your teachers as a new administrator, but also learning from your assistant superintendent. So thank you so very much, Mary, for being part of our yes, for being part of our mentoring moments. And to our audience, if this conversation meant anything to you, please follow us on the Apple Podcast, the Amazon Podcast, or Spotify. It takes five seconds, right? But it's also how other educators find conversations like these. And it tells the algorithm that mentorship matters. And guess what? You matter. So thank you so very much for all your time to listen to our mentoring moments. Go lead with heart, listen with purpose, and always pay it forward. Be someone's mentoring moment. Thank you again, Mary, and be well, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Thank you.