Pairs Well With...A Catch-Up With The Hosts

Neon green glow, matching dresses we didn’t plan, and a boutique full of character set the stage for a conversation about real change. We’re standing in a season where time feels precious, and that urgency is shaping every choice—what we keep, what we release, and how we move with more care and less noise. We look back on eight months of creating this show while remaking our lives: daughters heading to college, careers evolving, identities expanding beyond a job title. 

From the Green Butterfly, we explain why space matters—how a vivid room can spark bolder thinking—and why we chose the lunar new year to reset. We talk openly about speaking intentions out loud to create accountability, because action makes clarity, not the other way around. That means saying no to obligations that drain us and yes to rest that actually restores us. Health and longevity take center stage. We share how tracking sleep reframed our days, and how one of us swapped high-intensity workouts for Pilates and mobility to calm a wired nervous system. The other treats movement and food as part of the job description for a future we want to enjoy: travel, grandkids or grand-nieces, four-hour lunches without pain. 

We trade aesthetics for sustainability and perfection for consistency, knowing that better sleep, gentler training, and mindful routines compound into a steadier life. Creativity shows up in full color. Leaving the confines of law made room for style to become a signature—not a secret—through thrifting, curation, and the art of final touches. 

We talk about building a team, delegating the middle, and owning what we do best. Along the way, small joys keep us grounded: unexpected free mornings, a task quietly handled, a hat that completes the look. We wrap with a rapid-fire round and choose one word for the year: refinement. Big change opened doors; now we decide what stays. If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s refining their life too, and leave a review with your word for the year—we’ll feature our favorites in an upcoming episode.

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The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Although your hosts are attorneys, Pairs Well With… does not provide legal, medical, financial, or professional advice. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney-client relationship. Always seek the advice of qualified professionals regarding any specific questions or concerns you may have.

Transcript

Why Green Butterfly, Why Now

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Before we jump in today, we wanted to talk about grounding and where we are. We have finally made it to record here at the Green Butterfly and wanted to share a little bit about why we chose this place and as we go into a new lunar year, talk about the changes that are coming and setting intentions and being grounded and being firm and confident in yourself as you move forward. Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Good morning. So glad to be here with you this morning. I know I'm excited that we're in the butterfly. I know. I love looking around and I'm seeing dinosaurs in boots and furs and hats, and it's just amazing. It really is. It's a fun space. It really is. It makes me smile every time I walk to the door. Well, isn't that a great job to have?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

I know. It's a completely different feel than a lot of the jobs I've had previously.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

No kidding. No kidding. And we match. Yeah, kind of in our own special way and a little bit odd, but we'll explain to the guest who are watches on YouTube, and we'll try to give a visual to those who are just listening to us on audio podcast. But we didn't make that choice to come to us today and kind of explain why we're doing that at this point. But really, we've been at this eight months now.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Yeah, so this is our eighth episode. I think somebody told us early on if you make it to 10, then you really have something in the work.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

It's just it's gone by fast, which shows you how fast time goes. Yes. And yet I feel like we've come really far since the first time we sat down and chatted at your house.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

We've learned a lot along the way, and we're still learning. Who knew that we were gonna have to learn about social media reels and SEOs and just how much you have to put yourself out there when you're doing something like this. And real microphones. And real microphones.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I'm not gonna say real microphones, upgraded microphones.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

New microphones. New microphones. So official, right? I love it. And the lighting. Um the production has definitely our production has has done an outstanding job. And I just I love it in this space too. I'm so glad we did this.

Matching Dresses And Identity

SPEAKER_00 2:41

So tell tell the audience, if you would, why we decided not only to have the shoot here at the Green Butterfly today, but also why we're in these green get ups. Everything is green today. Everything is green.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

We're very wickedish butterfly. The walls are green in here. My neon green butterfly sign is on. We're on the green couch in the green butterfly. And Sheila and I are wearing very, very similar, I would say, olive green, forest green, olive green, one-shoulder evening cocktail dresses. And the funny story about this is that neither one of us knew that we had the almost identical dress until very recently. And we were getting ready to go to an event and we were talking about what we were going to wear, and we both took pictures of the dress and shared it with one another, and they were like, oh my goodness, we have almost the exact same dress. And so when we talked about doing another episode with just the two of us, we said, How fun would it be to both wear the green dresses but show how it we're the same, but we're different. Our our foundations are similar, but our fringes are a little different.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

That's a good way to put it. Yeah. I mean, we definitely should not have shown up in these dresses at that event because I think people would have really scratched their head about us at that point. You know, we had no reason to know that we each had this in our closets. And and so I knew that you would be more outside of the box than me. And I like what you've chosen. I love your shoes and your accessories, and it's such a it's such a pretty dress and such a pretty line. You don't need a whole bunch. No, I feel like it's that outfit of the day that those girls do, you know, O-O-T-D. Shoes are Stuart White's men's dresses that's our outfit of the day intro for you there. So to give you some visual if you're just listening to us today. Anyway, it's been fun. So tell the audience what we're doing today, interviewing each other and why we thought that was

Eight Months Of Podcasting Lessons

SPEAKER_00 4:44

important.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, like you said, we've released seven episodes now. This is episode number eight. And the very first episode, we started out, you know, sharing with the audience who we are and why we wanted to do that. And so as we go into the lunar year, February 17th, we both have set some different intentions for the year, and we've made some significant changes from where we were when we first did an episode interviewing one another. And so sharing that I think is important to give them a little update about how far we've come in this period and where we're looking to go in the future. Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

You and I both started this podcast just because of all of the different types of transitions that we were going through. And I think one of the things that we said when we first started talking was the same but different. So we both had daughters leaving and became empty nesters. Maybe they seemed to come back and stay over the holidays for a very long period of time. It was a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

It was a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

We got our empty nest back this week, though, right? Yes. And how that impacted us and also different points in our careers and relationships and that type of thing. And so it's been interesting to watch you really dive in with the changes that you've made and impressive and all the applause and inspiration, I think, to not only me, but our friends and and people who have seen what you've been able to do here and in your life to make the changes because that's what this is about. It's really a little bit of accountability too to us, right? Each and to each other and and just into the world. I think the fact that we spoke about it, it made it even more important to follow through. Follow through, do it, yes. So one of the things that we thought would be really cool is that we would, you know, follow up with questions about each other that maybe we haven't answered yet thus far in the podcast world and let our audience get to know us a little bit better. And again, to help us see where we've both been, yeah, you know, and how we've made some changes internally as well as externally over the last eight months or so. And I feel like it was this time last year. January's always, you know, everybody wants to start fresh and clean slate, and you get to turn the page on the calendar and that type of thing. But I do feel like that it was about a year ago. As a matter of

Intentions For The Lunar New Year

SPEAKER_00 7:14

fact, I think it was connected to the Super Bowl because I remember being at a party, a Super Bowl party, and somebody asked me about Ellie going to college. And I said, Yeah, there's gonna be a lot of changes in my life in the next year, and and I'm welcoming those. And I'm gonna close some doors and open some doors, and I feel like that's the first intentional that I put out into the universe speaking that.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

So it's been funny you say that because it came up on my memories about a week ago, I think. I was having lunch by myself. I hadn't left the Capitol and went to sometimes I just have to leave and get away by myself at lunchtime if I don't have to entertain. And I was sitting there thinking about the store. And, you know, I had the concept in mind, but I didn't know my launch when it was gonna be or where it was gonna be or any of that. But it was the first time outside of at our girls' Christmas party, I believe I said to y'all a year ago, this this past December, so December 2024, I said, I'm gonna open a vintage clothing boutique this year. But that was in a small circle. That was just my close-knit friends around. And so I was sitting at lunch by myself and I had on this vintage blouse that I was just sitting there thinking about that in the store. And I took kind of a odd selfie where it's just kind of just the side of my face looking up, and I I quoted on the Instagram post visions of butterflies dancing in my head. And that was the first moment I ever put it out there about I'm gonna do this. Yeah, you know, and again, it happened a little quicker than I anticipated, but it's it's been great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

I think that's just where you make things move is when you say, I'm gonna put, like we've been saying over and over, putting that first foot out there to move forward, and even when you don't necessarily know what it's gonna look like and what the timing is gonna be, and who you're gonna meet along the way that might shake things up. But uh just knowing uh kind of in your gut that things need to change, or I really want things to change, and it's just maybe time for a change, whatever that instigating fact is, or that instigating situation might be, sometimes it just drops in your lap, like the pandemic or getting fired, or whatever it might be for for whomever, but whatever that little nugget is that gets your brain, right? And it just makes you say something needs to be different about my life.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

I saw something recently that said, if you got to the end of a book and you didn't read every page and then you realized that was your life, what would you do different? And I thought that was so great because I mean we do all have a book and let's don't skip, let's don't skip a page. Well, the only way to fill the pages are action. I mean, I kid with Merle all the time, he's such a napper. I'm like, you know, you nap all the time, you're never gonna remember taking that nap. But you will remember when we decided to go to Krispy Kreme at, you know, 6 a.m. one morning. But you know, you remember the things you did. You don't remember the things you didn't do. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

That's a good point. That's a really good point. I love having things to look forward to and planning trips or parties or even new outfits to wear or whatever it might be. It just gives you that little push to say there's

Transitions, Empty Nests, And Accountability

SPEAKER_00 10:38

something ahead that's gonna make you smile and be happy and work hard.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

And one of the hardest things for me is to not push too hard because I will push myself to burn out, and that's happened to me a number of times in my life. And so I'm having to, and I'm very intentional rest and recalibration. It doesn't mean being lazy, it doesn't mean I'm losing time, it's making me better for what's the next activity or the next memory to be made. Because if I'm pushing so hard and my anxiety level is flying high and you know, adrenaline's just running all the time, I don't remember it. So learning to slow down and appreciate when it does occur and preparing for that by settling, resting, recalibrating.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

You have to do it, you have to take space for yourself. I think that's as a woman, especially we have spent most of our lives not doing that because we just simply didn't have time. Yeah. There were other things on our plates and other people that took precedence over what we needed to get done for ourselves. It wasn't even on the list that day. Self-care or taking care of yourself, or what do I need today?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Untraining my brain to just be in fight or flight mode all the time has been really hard for me over the last year. But it's been very healthy for me. Yeah, it's been a big adjustment.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

I get that. It's it's very hard to say I'm gonna carve out this time because I need to recalibrate or I need to take some space. I need to learn uh how I am gonna feed myself differently.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

So that you can be a better person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

And you can create, you know, good healthy memories and show up where needed, but not to the point of burnout. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I read something, well, actually, I listened to it on a podcast not long ago. It said you need to make space so that uh you have the ability that when you step forward, there's space to take the step forward. Need to just step back a minute, take some space so that I can then look ahead and say, where do I want to go next? Because if the space is all filled with all the chaos and it's just filled with stuff and people and things to do, how do you know where to go next? You really don't. And you know, I think we both reached this point in our lives about a year ago saying we want to be very intentional about where we go next and what the next step is, because we're at a point in our lives now where we don't have that many, that many years to take steps forward, right? I mean, hopefully knock on wood that we do, but you know, we're at the we're at the other end, and every step matters and every memory matters, and every action seems to have a bigger consequence.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And the realization of how precious time is really sets in.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

You know, I was told that by close friends and my husband both before I turned 50, and I was like, Oh, that's not I'm not gonna think any day, but it does. I mean, it's it's a massive marker in life that you're not really prepared for. And then when you realize just how precious time and health are, it changes your outlook on everything.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And when you lose someone close to you that was a marker in your life, you get that feeling even more so because you realize, okay, time is going and you want to be healthy for your kids, and you want to be able to live the rest of your life in a good way. You know, it's those kinds of things. So I I know that we are both wanting some of the same things with new steps to take in front of us and new doors that we're opening and new chapters that we're starting. And it's been, it's been a great eight months. This podcast has been a great way for me to express those feelings out loud and again make myself really

Saying It Out Loud To Make It Real

SPEAKER_00 14:41

want to do what I'm saying that I'm doing, try to live like, okay, I'm gonna take the advice I'm giving on the podcast now, and the advice that we're finding from other folks that we've been meeting and talking to and finding about their interesting stories and just being part of that world of deliberate life activities. I don't know if that's the way to put it, but really trying to be deliberate about, you know, how I wake up in the morning, how much sleep I get at night. I feel like I'm obsessed about my sleep right now. I got this ring is I got this aura ring for Christmas that I asked for mostly because of sleep. I'm just astounded by how many people our age, men and women just don't feel like they get good sleep. And I can tell my difference in a day, whether I've had sleep or not. Yes. And the powering through without sleep is just so hard.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

It affects your productivity, it affects your emotions, it affects your physical health, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

All of it, all of it. And and also the the health part of it. I feel like having the job that I had, that we've had for 30 plus years, has really affected my health, not only internally, but also just because it's made me less active. It's made me not focus on having hobbies. And, you know, for all the lawyers out there who are like marathon runners and have all these hobbies, I mean, I praise you because I just did not fit that into my I was just running away from the work.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Trust me, that's what I did.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I just, you know, I just didn't take the time to really take care of myself in the way that I would like to make sure that I take care of myself now going forward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Let me rephrase what I just said. I wasn't running away from the work when I did that. I was running away from what I didn't like about my life. Yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Yeah. And it wasn't just my career, it was a lot of things in my life at that time. But running was how I dealt with it and it was my escape. Yeah. And not dealing with it is what I was doing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, everybody's got their means of escape, you know, whether it's watching TV or reading or walking or doing something healthy or non-healthy. I mean, I'm grateful that I didn't really turn to anything terribly unhealthy because I think a lot of people who are driven in their careers and who have demanding careers do that. And so I'm grateful that I didn't do that. I never felt like I had time to do that.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Not when you're holding all the plates in the air.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

No, you can't especially and then other people depended on you. Right, right. And you got and you get a family, and you know, you can't really back out of it that way. So it's really just been a plowing ahead. And so I feel very, very grateful that at least at this point in my life, it's not too late. There's, I hope, plenty of time left. And and even if it's just today, at least we're doing this.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Half five.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Half I've. Good for us. So let's talk about us more, even if people aren't tired of us. But no, I think it's gonna be interesting to ask some questions and let the audience know a little bit more about us. I think that's been some of the feedback that we've gotten, is that they've enjoyed hearing our guests, but they do want to learn a little bit more about us. So we're gonna try to share some of that. So do you wanna start to transition to our interview section?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

The first one. What drains you faster now than it used to?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

People demanding by time. I'm less giving of time when I don't feel like it's gonna be meaningful. And I feel like I've lost patience

Action Over Anxiety And Making Memories

SPEAKER_00 18:22

with frivolity, and not necessarily fun, because I think I've enjoyed some more fun things than I probably would have let in my life, like we had a couple weekends ago. But in terms of just wasting time, sort of rote doing things or having meetings for the point of having meetings or going to a seminar for the point of that, things like that, I've I've lost patience for that. And I think that's just because of where I am right now. And that's wisdom. It is, and and it's efficiency again with the time that I feel like I've got left. Do I want to spend my time doing things that that I don't think are really gonna move my ball ahead that I wanna, you know, move.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

So, and maybe that just goes to what the ball is that I'm playing with right now. Because I feel like I'm I'm moving in my football analogy. I feel like I'm moving from one field to another.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

You know, and I'm still in a transition space, and I probably will play both fields for a long time, but I do feel like I have less patience for one game than I do on the other.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

I I have seen you grow in that way tremendously over the last, I would say over the last 18 months or more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Well, thank you. I feel like I feel like myself that it feels more authentic now than it did a year ago when I was saying I was gonna do that. I feel like I was pretending a little bit more, and I feel like now it's more authentic, right? To say, you know, no, I'm learning how to say no more and be receptive to whatever that brings me.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Isn't that freedom?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

It is freedom, and it's it's hard for people like me, I probably like you, that tend to be people pleasers and want to make things right and want to solve problems, and and so to say no is a big give up. I mean, yeah, yeah. And you're you're letting control go of the outcome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

All right. I'm starting with my questions to you, a section called Creativity and Expression, because this is where we are. So, Serena, you've always been creative since the day I met you. I've always admired your style and how you throw things on and throw things together and still look put together. Where does your creative, your creativity, where does your creativity show up most naturally to you?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

In my home and when I'm quiet as far as work is concerned. I think my creativity for my life in general shows up when I'm outsourcing and thrifting. And then the outcome of that is that my creativity then is reflected through the style in my home and my personal style.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Do you think that your creative ideas do they come sort of fully formed or do they not at all? No.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I have big, I'm a big concept person. Execution is not my strength, but final touches are as well. So I go from big concept to needing a lot of help, executing, and then final touches, my creative expression as well. The middle ground is where I struggle, which is why I'm so thankful to have such a great team here at Green Butterfly.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

You have put together a good team. We knew that you would need that from the beginning with all this going on. So that's great. And I know that's not easy for you to delegate. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

And that's part of trusting that I have a good team. Team in place, they understand my vision and letting go of that control so that they can do what they do best. And then I come in and again circle back for the final touches, you know, the little nuances of the store or of the style of the person that we're working with. It's not my job to pull the basic jeans or the basic blazer. I come in and find the right jewelry. I come in and find the right hat. I come in and find the right scarf. That's what I'm good at.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

On this topic of creativity, how do you think over the years your relationship with creativity has changed or evolved?

SPEAKER_01 22:38

I think that's easy for me. I'm no longer ashamed of my creativity and it being an expression of who I am as an individual. I think in my younger years, when I was

Rest, Recalibration, And Women’s Time

SPEAKER_01 22:49

not as confident in myself or how different I was, I tend to suppress it and hide it and would only let it show in in small ways, maybe, you know, not even throughout my entire home, but in my bedroom or bathroom or in my, you know, private office space. And as I got older, I began to take it on throughout my home and then eventually just let it become who I was as an individual and and shine in every area, you know, from the the outfits that I wear to the way I decorate to the gifts that I give to other people, you know, and just not being ashamed of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Well, it makes you uniquely you.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I used to hide that. I used to tamper it. And a lot of that too, you know, going back to the career thing, was the choice of career that I started out in and feeling like I couldn't truly express myself and be authentic in that career, in that role. So changing careers probably allowed me to embrace my creativity and my self-expression more.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Well, and getting out of a law firm environment, even when you went and switched careers into a different area of lobbying, for instance, that not only physically but emotionally probably got you out of that constraint of an office building.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Talking about your daily life, what feels essential now in your day-to-day life?

SPEAKER_00 24:18

I think essentials are some time to breathe, some time to reflect, some time to be grateful, some time to feed myself both with those things as well as becoming much more aware of what I'm putting in my body, what I'm doing with my body. I feel like that's become for me part of my job now. I feel like I've made the decision to say, okay, I want, I want to change some things about my life. And so what am I gonna do now to address those issues? And for me, it's almost like saying, I've got this job to do now. And that's how seriously I want to take it.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

So those things I'm trying to make my essentials every day. That's great. I like that. Well, you've always done a better job than I have. Exercise.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, I mean, it's always been a part of my life. I've always been an athlete, but I used it to punish myself a lot. I wasn't using it for healthy reasons sometimes in my life. I was using it as punishment or to escape from facing things in my life. And so I've had to kind of almost do just the opposite of what you're doing. I've had to let go of those really hard push-me workouts because it was keeping my nervous system just in overdrive all the time. And so I the change that I've made recently in my health is to stretch more, to do less intense workouts, to not beat myself up if there's a day that I don't get in exercise, because I really I used it as a form of punishment to myself. And so I've gotten into this Legris Pilates the last three weeks. I'm really enjoying that. I've lived in chronic pain for years because of all the years of running and the heavy, heavy hardcore boot camps and you know, military-style

Midlife Clarity And The Weight Of Time

SPEAKER_01 26:16

workouts, and I got tired of hurting all the time. And so I'm learning to slow down, you know, let my mind attach to my body and not escape my body. And that's exactly what I used to do when I was doing those hard workouts.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

It's great that you put that together and you know, figured that out and are stopping it now. Yeah. I feel like for me, it was always what I look like in clothes, and do I fit in my clothes and do I have to buy a new wardrobe? And uh that type of vanity that sort of made me want to, you know, make sure that my body was gonna get out of control. And at a place where I'm feeling more confident with my body, I'm going to have that lightness of I'm not gonna have that hanging over my head. Like I want my insides to match my outsides, I want my outsides to be acceptable to me, that I feel like, okay, this is the best I'm gonna be at this age. And I hope that I can maintain this for the rest of my life. Because for me right now, that's the goal is how do I stay healthy? How do I stay satisfied with you know my appearance and not feel like I want to hide myself away because I I want to live and I want to be out there and it is important to me. And I I want to be around for grandkids one day, and even if those don't come along, you know, grandnieces or nephews or whomever, or just to travel and do and live and wake up and not in pain. And and I've I've seen what chronic illness does to people, and sometimes you can't avoid conditions that give you chronic pain and and you have to live with it. And who knows if that will be in my future, I don't know. But the things I can control, I do want to try to control it. And I think that's what this whole transformation or transition in life is is including for me. It's just becoming a more of a priority.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I I've had to make myself think about it in terms of uh exercising for longevity and not for performance or approval from other people. Right. And so reframing it, and that's taken me, you know, well, goodness, you know, at least a year, if not longer, to to look at it that way. And it's finally settling in and becoming acceptable to me to approach it that way.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah, I think that's really healthy. You know, it's always been a chore for me to exercise, no matter what kind of shape. I've been in great shape, I've not been in great shape, I've exercised a lot, I've not exercised a lot. It's always been a chore. I never got that feeling of like endorphen, it's like all these people, you're gonna get to this point and you're just gonna love it so much. I'm like, I never love it. But now that I've sort of taken this different approach to saying, okay, this is where I want to focus my time, whether I like it or not. No, who really wants to be in pain when they're exercising? But what I want to do is appreciate it more and appreciate what it's going to give me. And so the focus has changed on on why I'm doing it and what's behind it. What small pleasure never loses its power with you?

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Being ready for anything at any time. And y'all laugh at me because we have theme parties and the like, and I can go in my closet and pull together the perfect outfit at any time. But also the closet that I've built over my lifetime, there's nothing elaborate about it, but I've I've learned how to have foundations and then fun accent pieces, and so I can dress for anything at any time.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

And on a dime.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

That's great. And you do.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

And you let

Health, Sleep, And Sustainable Habits

SPEAKER_00 30:20

people borrow. Yeah. What are you curious about right now?

SPEAKER_01 30:26

You know, this whole decade of my fifties. I'll be 52 this year. And growing slower and being okay with that and not having to live life in the rat race and just little things. I I can't tell you the last time I turned the television on in my house in the last week since my daughter's been back at school. I come in in the evenings, I make my hot tea, I turn my fire on, I play some jazz music, and just sit in the quiet. And I never thought I would enjoy that. So learning new ways of enjoyment, I think. That surprised me. Yeah. That's got me curious. That's great. What uh part of your work has felt most natural to you and how do you separate who you are from what you do?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I think that we talked about this in our very first episode, that you know, my career has defined me, I think, for the better part of my adult life. But I think it's always fit me as a person because I like to solve problems. And that is just, I am a problem solver, and that is what a lawyer does, solves problems. So I I think it fit me because of that. And I'm still a problem solver. I like to be the person who, if somebody calls me, I can tell them how to, you know, whip up some eggs or how to find the right city to travel to in Italy or whatever it might be. I like having the answers for things. I think that's part of sort of my Enagram five of being a researcher and wanting to know things. And I like to share the things that I have learned along the way. Even when I'm not going to the office every day, I feel like I'm still doing that, but not in a way that is pressure-filled or necessarily for a paycheck, but it's how to make things easier, even in my life, how to solve that, and how to have more time in a day to get things done that I want to do, and learning the tools to live this new life that I want to live. So I don't know if that answers the question.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, in thinking along those lines, you asked me this a few minutes ago. What small thing for you never loses its power?

SPEAKER_00 32:57

You know, I've always liked when someone took something off my plate without me asking them to do that. And so the gift of time and the gift of having a free morning that I wasn't rushed to go do something. Having a meeting get canceled is sometimes a huge joy to me.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah, yeah. Because you have to unexpected time.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Unexpected time is such a gift. Yes. And when I get to my office and someone has taken care of something that I didn't necessarily ask them to take care of, but it needed to be taken care of. It's those little things that do bring me a lot of pleasure. And I guess that's my love language. Acts of service. What's your love language?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Quality time. And I don't think that mine has ever changed. A lot of people theirs changed throughout their life, but I don't think mine has ever changed.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Mine's been acts of service since I learned about the love languages. And I think I'd I also do that in return. I also think on the flip side, I like the gift giving. But well, you're an excellent gift giver. Well, thank you. And the acts of service sort of kind of dovetail into that. Yeah. I'm a better giver than receiver, but I like I like receiving too, but it's not my love language at all. It's not. So what are you curious about? I am curious about the next chapters. I'm curious to see what doors will open, what I do with the doors I'm walking through, what I'm doing with the rooms that I'm walking into. I feel like there's this abundance out there that I am opening myself up to that has me feeling real full right now. So I'm curious about that. Well, this has been really fun. You know what we didn't do? We didn't do our rapid fire. Oh. We need to do some rapid fire. Since we put our guests through, that we have to do it. Okay. Okay, you start.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Winter or summer?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Winter. Really? You know, I do as much as I hate being

Creativity, Teamwork, And Letting Go

SPEAKER_00 35:01

cold because I'm always cold. Ellie put this good the other day. She said, my mom doesn't like unnatural cold. I don't like to be in a restaurant when it's cold. Yeah. I will get up and move in a heartbeat. And I don't like to be in an office that's cold. But I like winter clothes better than summer clothes. I like thick, well-made, well-constructed clothes. I like the coziness of winter. And I guess I like it because we don't have it that much down here. Yeah. So if I was in Minneapolis, yeah, we probably wouldn't feel the same way, would we? I mean, our winter's like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

I mean, everybody freaks out around here if it drops below 42. I know, I know. Get a little precipitation, and we're like, no, shut the schools down.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Right. Okay, what about for you? Home or travel at this point in your life?

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Travel.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Still travel.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah. Because you can find quiet in travel too. Yeah. But it's all about the exploration and new experiences for me.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Well, let me ask you this quiet or conversation?

SPEAKER_01 36:04

I'd have to put a qualifier on the type of conversation. If it's shallow conversation, quiet. If it's in-depth and meaningful conversation, conversation. Yeah. Same.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Same. The the quiet has the quietness might be inching just a little bit above lately. Yeah. Just because I feel like I am still ridding myself of the chaos of the last few decades and sitting in the quiet and enjoying the quiet. And even if it's not quiet, even if it's just calm. Calm. That's a better word. Yeah. Yeah. The calmness. Like I almost can't stand a lack of calm. Like it's become the thing that's sort of a trigger. Sensory overload gets to me like this now. Uh-huh. Although I will say, just as we're saying, like, well, maybe, and here's the qualifier. A couple of Sundays ago, when we had our brunch, our birthday brunch, and then we all decided we were going to go out after. And I was very reticent. And I said, Well, I'll just be the designated driver and I'll drop y'all off. And then I said, Okay, well, I'll come in for a few minutes and see what this is all about. And then we ended up having the best time. Like four hours later when we left. At the bar on the reservoir with this great band. They were good. And a Sunday afternoon. I mean, I can't think of a more fun Sunday afternoon than I've spent today. I totally agree. And it was just because it was so spontaneous. We couldn't have planned. Yes. And probably, I think if we ever tried to plan it, it probably wouldn't go as well. But it was really fun. So planning or spontaneity? I'm a planner. I mean, I just am. But I do love, I mean, I love, I'll say this. I like to plan up to a point. And then I like to see where it goes. Like a trip. I would like to, you know, I like to make sure our flights are good and I like to make sure we're staying in a nice hotel. And I wouldn't mind having a dinner reservation. But once I get there, I don't really like to have everything planned, especially when I'm traveling, because I like to wander and you know, walk in a shop here or have a four-hour lunch or whatever that might be. So, you know, planning to a point, but then letting it sort of happen. Okay, last one. One word for this chapter today.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Refinement. Last year was big change. This year is about refining what I'm keeping in my life. This has been great. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Getting to know you. Getting to know you. All over again. And look, I've loved that we had a meeting recently to talk about our year ahead and we can tell our listeners that we've got some really great guests. We've got some great guests lined up. We do. So looking forward to stay tuned. Learning some new things about other people in addition to ourselves and getting ready to share that with our audience. We'd love to hear what our audience might like to hear from us once they've gotten a chance to know us better. So like us and follow and comment if you if you want to have us talk about something we haven't talked about yet or meet some people that you haven't met yet. And we appreciate your time. Thanks for being with us. And remember everything pairs better with curiosity. That's right. Let's all stay curious for sure. Keep them curious. Absolutely. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

The content of this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Although your hosts are attorneys, pairs well with does not provide legal, medical, financial, or professional advice. Listening to this podcast does not create an attorney client relationship. Always seek the advice of qualified professionals regarding any specific questions or concerns you may have.