The Preferred List: A Wedding Vendor Podcast

Episode 7 Turn Stress Into Confidence: Love It At Stella's

• James

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The moment you step onto the platform, everything gets loud: opinions, trends, timelines, prices. So we brought in Angie and Grace from Stella’s to quiet the noise and show how a thoughtful stylist turns stress into confidence and a rack of dresses into a clear yes.

We start with the human side of the shop: a 60+ year legacy, a historic schoolhouse space, and a team that doesn’t work on commission. That one choice changes everything. Instead of pushing price tags, they protect your vision, set group expectations, and lead with questions that matter: can you picture the aisle, does this feel like you, and does your body relax in the mirror? From there, we get tactical. We map the first appointment, use a lookbook to gather ideas, try a tight edit of silhouettes, and narrow by feel, not fear. We unpack timelines you can trust, the truth about bridal sizing, and how to avoid alteration headaches by ordering smart.

Trends come up, but they don’t run the show. Yes, basque waistlines, brocade textures, and modern drop waists are having a moment, yet the strongest theme is authenticity. If a pink dress feels like you, wear it. If clean and classic calms your heart, lean in. We go deep on customization—necklines, sleeves, fabrics, skirt fullness—and how small tweaks can transform “almost” into “exactly” without blowing the budget. We also explore heirloom touches like memory patches and reimagined mom or grandma gowns, plus why a second dress can be both a vibe and a comfort strategy.

By the end, you’ll have a framework for choosing the right entourage, steering feedback gracefully, and making the final call without pressure. Most of all, you’ll leave with permission to prioritize joy over noise. If this conversation helped you breathe easier about your dress, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more brides can find it. What’s the one feeling you want your gown to capture?

https://www.loveitatstellas.com/

https://www.instagram.com/love.it.at.stellas/

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to The Preferred List, a podcast about the people behind the best wedding days. I'm James, a wedding filmmaker. I've spent years in the industry working alongside incredible vendors, and this show is all about real conversations with the ones who make it happen. Whether you're a vendor or a couple, you'll get honest insight, good stories, and maybe a little inspiration along the way. Let's meet today's wedding vendors. Hey girls, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02:

Good. How are you?

SPEAKER_04:

Good. I'm so excited to have you guys on. We have Angie and Grace from Love It's Tell us. I will say, I always see the dress hanging there, and I'm like, beautiful, love it. Let's get it on. Let's start the day. But there's so much more that goes into finding the right dress, finding the right dress for the bride that you guys have in the shop. And so I'm so excited to dive into all things bridal wear and even some formal wear stuff. Um, and to just get you know, get the tips and all the stuff from your guys' expertise in that area.

SPEAKER_03:

We have plenty. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_04:

Before we dive into that though, we're here at Hazelwood Weddings. Hazelwood Weddings is a modern wedding venue in New Oxford, Pennsylvania, specializing in weddings, micro weddings, and elopements with easy access to Gettysburg, York, Lancaster, and Baltimore. It's built specifically for weddings, and you'll find an intentional variety of bright open spaces bathed in natural light and surrounded by stunning woodland views. Hazelwood is the perfect backdrop for your day and an even better backdrop for your photos. And I know you guys just got the chance to meet Kate. She is such a joy to be around. Um, and it's just such a nice space.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it is, it's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_04:

So I am grateful for for Hazelwood to to have us here and be like letting us be here set up and be here for the two days of our our film days here. Um, but girls, how's it going?

SPEAKER_00:

Good, good. It's so beautiful out here. The colors are so vibrant right now with the fall.

SPEAKER_04:

I know, I know. I just put the drone up and I'm like, I can't. It's just too good. It's a little, it's a little less sunny than it was this morning, but this morning it was like perfect. Wow. Um, but I'm so excited. Just give me give me the backstory. I know we were just talking a little bit off camera beforehand. The backstory for Stellas is just so cool, interesting, and unique.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Give us give us the history, give us the rundown of how it all started.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So Stella's has been around for well over 60 years now. Um originally it started as Pacy's in downtown Baltimore on Eastern Avenue. Um and you might know it from uh the actually original hairspray movie. Um it was filmed there, it was the hefty hideaway um for um I can't remember her name, but the the lead character's mom. Sorry, I'm not healthy at all, but it's a cool story. Yes, it was uh one of my favorite musicals as a kid. Um but yeah, so it started out as Pacy's, um, was around forever. Um they had very different locations. Um a lot of our bride's moms actually got their dresses there. Um it was super well known. And then it was um purchased by a Greek family, and the tradition in a Greek family is to name your firstborn after your mother. So the owner's mother was named Stella. So there actually was never a Stella's that worked at Stella's, which is so funny.

SPEAKER_05:

We get asked all the time where Stella's Stella, coming Stella.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, they're like, are you Stella? I'm like, no, I don't know. But it is really sweet and it always is nice when we can tell our story. Yeah. So um, and then about probably we think it's like 17 years ago or so, our um current owner Doris purchased Stella's um on Eastern Avenue. Uh, she still lives down there um in the Cannon area, so uh she loved it. And um, we decided to move up to Westminster in Carroll County about now 11 years ago. Yeah. Um so we've been there for 11 years, and our space is beautiful. We're in an old schoolhouse. Um, it's a historic, uh, huge brick building with beautiful arched windows. Um, and we've really made it our own on the inside. We did beautiful um tin ceilings to really reflect the time period it was built. Yeah. Um and being in a historic building is so nice because it is.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00:

It brings back like the history of downtown Westminster and just really makes it special.

SPEAKER_04:

So Yeah, it's such a fun, such a fun story and so much history, even though it's not you said Baltimore. You said it like you are from Baltimore. Baltimore. Like I it's like a Lancaster. I people don't say Lancaster, they say Lancaster is a Baltimore. I was like, that's that's such a funny way to Yeah, it's it's funny.

SPEAKER_00:

We're kind of on like the outskirts of Baltimore. So we get the Baltimore brides, but we also get tons of Pennsylvania brides.

SPEAKER_02:

Um yeah, we have this like perfect little triangle around us um of reach where we get our brides from.

SPEAKER_04:

So it's and you have so much space inside of your shop as well. You're saying it's like 8,000 square feet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, we have a very large software which we're super, super lucky to have. Um, I feel like a lot of other bridal shops are very limited in their space. Um, so we have a ton of dresses. Yeah, so many dresses.

SPEAKER_02:

Um and like Grace was saying too, with us being in an old school building, all of our rooms are very separated. So it's not like a warehouse-y, oh, all the dresses are on the wall and I just have to like go behind a curtain. Like we have private rooms regardless of if you know you book one or not. They're they're nice and private for our brides.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's so cool. So you guys are out here as sort of the front-facing manager type. You are literally managers, but the manager type um people behind um the things that are happening at Stella's. Right. Um, I'm curious if you could just give me a little rundown. How did you each get into the bridal dress kind of world?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. Um Do you want to go first? Uh you can go first. Okay. You've been there longer. So um I started at Stella's actually in high school. Um, so a little over 10 years now. Uh, we f when we first opened in Westminster. So I grew up in Carroll County in the Westminster area. Um, and I started in a high school. I got my junior prom dress at Stella's, which is crazy. Um and yeah, I mean, uh Doris just kind of saw something in me and uh took me under her wing and really um grew me into the manager stylist of all the different things that I am today. Um and yeah, I just kind of continued um to love it. Everybody says like in this industry, especially in fashion, um, which is a kind of I feel like a different part of the wedding industry. Um it's a little bit more like specific in niche. Um you get bit. You really get bit by this bug. And and can attest to this too. You don't know that you're gonna love it so much until you start and then you just cannot stop. And I know that that's true, obviously, probably with you too. Yeah um every wedding vendor is gonna tell you, yeah, I just I love it. As much as we get put through the craziest things, we still just we just love it and you can't stop.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, was there something? Um we'll jump to your story in just a second. But was there something in that first like like did did she did Doris like, hey, you would be good at this, or like did I she saw something, but like what was the something?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um I think that so I had had previous um boutique work before. So I worked in um two actually two different specialty boutiques, um, which is crazy because I was still in high school. Yeah. Um I started working at 13 at a small boutique um on Main Street in Westminster, and it was just like jewelry and apparel, and um I was just like, oh wow, I really like this. I really, really like this because it's kind of like it's different than um big business. A small business is so personal. It is so personal and so intentional. And each person that comes into a small business talks to a real person. And I think that that is what makes it so special. Um so yeah, I mean, based off of that, I um I had just finished a holiday stint at a boutique I was at. Um and I was looking for a new a new job. Um, and I bought my junior prom dress at Stella's and Doris actually noticed how I hung up the dress. It was with care and with intention, and I wanted to make sure, you know, everything was good with it because I was like, oh, this is one of the most expensive dresses I've ever bought in my life, you know. And back then I was like maybe like a hundred dollars. It was on sale, like yeah. Um, but yeah, she noticed that and she's like, oh, are you looking for a job, maybe? Um, and I was like, yeah, actually, funny enough. Um, and I was 16. And she never left. And I never left, yes. Uh it just kind of bites you, you just fall in love with it. And um over the years, uh, she started kind of um pushing me to use my eye a little bit more. Um, I helped originally started by helping buy uh for the season for prom. Um and then as we went, um, I started going with her to bridal market in Atlanta and then Chicago and New York, um, which really kind of is the glamorous part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I have to imagine buying the dresses for the shop is probably pretty fun. It is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. It's a lot of thinking, but it's very fun. It's a little, it's funny because it can get a little brain melting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

At some point they all start to look the same. Yes, which we hear from our brides too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And we we feel it too. And for sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But Ann, you should talk about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So um, I actually started at Stella's during the pandemic. Um, my mom had been working there probably about a year. Um, and I was a junior in college, um, studying graphic design, and um just wanted a job over quarantine. Um, so I started working at Stella's, um, actually steaming the dresses in between each individual try-on. Yes. Um, COVID. We we thought that it did something at that point, um, which it didn't. Um, but after that. It did. Nice and nice and clean for the next bride. Um, but after that, I started like just helping with the Pinterest and doing stuff like that. Um, and then the social media manager that we had at the time left. Um, and it was funny they posted on Instagram. They're like, hey, we're looking for a social media manager. And I was like, hey, I already work here. I can I can do that. Um, so I started doing that. Um, and then I started seeing brides. I didn't I didn't take customers um initially, but then I started seeing brides probably about three years ago now. Um and then it's been five years now.

SPEAKER_04:

So yeah, that's a fun.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you love the social media stuff?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. I do. I feel like it's a totally different perspective being both the social media manager and a stylist because there's like um it's like putting the trends out there, but then it's also, you know, our our everyday bride isn't the the trendy um in her own way. And they don't need to be. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04:

So if you could demystify a little bit of like what is a bridal stylist? Like what goes into it? What are you expected to like do or not do?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, um We're a little bit of a therapist. A little bit of a therapist, um personal stylist, um, advice giver, um little bit of a mind reader, yeah. Yeah, a leader, definitely, in a group setting, because you have to be able to understand each person in the group. So the bride, of course. She we're like number one is all about her. Um, but then you also have to think of the mother, the mother-in-law, the maid of honor, the grandma, the grandma. Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Um sounds like she might be a little attenuated. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Um and yeah, I mean, anybody else that's in the party, sometimes kids can be there. Um it's always it's something new with every appointment.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And we all um have our own kind of method to running the appointment. Um primarily we start out, we um we actually offer a lookbook that our brides can go through, um, which a lot of stores don't do. So they can see everything that we have in the store before they even come in.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and they can make favorites. So we have a general idea of what they may be looking for. Um, but we start out the appointment just pulling a variety of different things, especially if it's their first time, it's so important to try on a variety. Um, and then we we really narrow it down from there. But the in-between steps can can change bride to bride. Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So there's probably like a thousand or thousands of different dresses, styles, ways that the styles can like present themselves on different brides. Absolutely. Do you think that there's like a lot of brides that have their mind like made up? Or is it are they coming in and being like, look, I like these styles, but I have no idea what's gonna look good. I just need some help.

SPEAKER_00:

A little bit of both.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, definitely, definitely a good mix.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I think that today's bride um has done her research. She knows she knows what's out there, she knows where she can get it. Um, and I think that she doesn't always know exactly what her style is going to be. Yeah. Um, and that's kind of where we come in. So sometimes she'll come in with a full Pinterest board and we'll be like, yeah, this is exactly what I want. Or she'll have done our lookbook and it's like, okay, we have like 50 dresses on here that we want to try on, which is can be amazing. And it's like, this is great. I can then pull from here and say, okay, these are gonna be within your budget. Okay. These are gonna be um within your size range that we can try on today. Um that is a huge thing for us. Um, our stylists actually don't work on commission, which is kind of unheard of in the bridal shop industry.

SPEAKER_04:

Um just unpack like what that does for the brides that you guys have.

SPEAKER_02:

You can kind of think of it like you're buying a car, the car salesman gets a cut off of whatever car you purchase. And in some bridal shops, that is the case for the dress you buy. Um, and there's two main reasons we don't work on commission. Um, one being we're not gonna push a bride to get a dress that's out of her budget just because we want a cut of that. That's totally unfair. Um, but it also feels icky. It feels very icky. Um, but also it doesn't promote any like competition between our stylists. Um if there are brides with different budgets, we we can meet all price points. But if there is a bride that comes in with a$5,000 budget, we're not all gonna be like, oh, we want her. Yeah. Um and so it makes our main goal just find you a dress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

The camaraderie of the team. There's no like money getting in between. Like, how do we do this?

SPEAKER_00:

Be happy for the bride. Yeah. Because it's like I would be just as happy if you bought a dress for on our, you know, I'll ready rack for$500 that I would for a dress if you bought for$3,000. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And there's gonna be a bride that comes in and wants to spend$500 and doesn't want to go above that at all. Absolutely. And there's gonna be a bride that's like, well, just show me all the options. Like there's not really a limit or something like that. Yeah. Um is there advice that you have for brides who don't know where to start? Obviously, they can look through the lookbook or they can look on Pinterest or they can look on Instagram, but even that I feel like can be overwhelming. Yeah. Because like even you said 50 dresses from the lookbook, and I'm like, good grief, that's a lot of dresses. Like how do you narrow it down even from 50? Yes. But where do they start? Do you recommend like finding a style that you like, a cut that you like?

SPEAKER_00:

Like and that's that is what your initial, you know, first time coming in, like that's what we're here for. Yeah. We're here to help you figure it out. I had a bride actually this past Saturday that was so nervous. And a lot of times our brides are, and that's okay. It's totally okay. Everybody has a different experience. Yeah. Some of our brides will come in like dressed to the nines with their little bride sash and their tiara, and we're like, okay, this is so much fun. And we also have brides that come in and say, I hate wearing dresses. Yeah. And I'm like, girl, that is fine. You know, like we are here for you to figure out what it is that you love. And if that is not a white dress, that's fine. If it's if it's a ball gown, that's great. You know, whatever you love is what we're here for.

SPEAKER_02:

So go ahead. Um, I was gonna say, I think the best advice is just come see us. Um, we don't put any pressure on our appointments. So if you come in not expecting to buy your dress, that is totally fine. Like our main goal is to just help you figure out what you want.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and and usually it is the first couple dresses, we'll have you try on a fitted one and we'll have you try on a flowy one and just what feels better for you. Um, and that doesn't mean we can't explore this, that, the other down the road, but just starting with small decisions. We hear it all the time. Oh, I'm so indecisive. I don't know what I would want. Um, I think just like those small little victories of, oh, I do like a flowy dress. Oh, I I do like this necklace.

SPEAKER_04:

I can even, as you're explaining it, I could even picture a bride being like, okay, I like that fitted look. Yeah. And it's like from there, you can pick the cut, the neckline, the sleeves, the shoulder straps, the sleeveless. Like you can have like all of that other stuff like fall into place once you figure out.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a process. It is. And that's that is kind of how I operate during appointments. It's kind of like an elimination game in my head. Um, once they say, like, oh, I really don't like how this looks on me, then I'm like, okay, then I won't pull any other dresses that that do that. Yeah. Um, and it is just like kind of really narrowing it down and helping them realize that they are making small decisions along the way to figuring out what that dress is. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you find that there's like, and I I to preface this, I know very little about dresses, to be completely honest. Okay. I'm saying the words like cuts and all this stuff, and I just know that there's different styles.

SPEAKER_01:

No, you're doing great.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you find that I appreciate that? Do you find that there's like um like body types that fit with like certain styles really, really good? That's a good one. And I and I don't want anyone to feel like bad about the way that they might like a dress and it just doesn't fit well on them for whatever reason. But is there like I'm really glad you asked that.

SPEAKER_00:

Is there some of that that works? Um that is one of my favorite things to kind of be like, no. You know? Like we honestly, all of us at Stellas and like really personally feel it is not about your body type. It is so much about what you love. It is what about what makes you feel good and what makes you feel like a bride?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And if you if you feel confident when you put that dress on, what the dress looks like does not matter. Gotcha. It's it's just how you look in it.

SPEAKER_04:

So is that is the confidence piece how you're feeling? Like, is that kind of the linchpin to be more like this dress might be the one? Or we're getting really close to what we might be finding as like the one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and you know, it it takes a little bit of of skill to get used to, but when the bride puts the dress on, we can usually tell before they do, um, just in the way that they carry themselves and like the way that they look in themselves in the mirror is totally different.

SPEAKER_04:

Like light up a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you can smiling. It's they just like finally relax. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole appointment, it is stressful because you're like on this mission to find the dress. But but once you're not sure.

SPEAKER_04:

The worry of like not finding feel like they're probably stressed, they're gonna go and like not find something they like.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it makes us so happy is when a bride has been to lots of different shops and she comes into us and she's like, I'm so done, like I'm so stressed, I'm I need to find a dress, like I don't want to stress anymore. And we're like, We got you, you know, we got you. And it really makes us happy that we can do that for them and give them that clarity and that sense of comfort, honestly. Yeah, um, that they're just in the right place.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so I'm picturing the setup. Maybe there's like a couple bridesmaids or a maid of honor that's there, maybe mom, maybe other mom, you know, like maybe there's like a small group of people. What's your best advice for the bride that's trying the dresses on to navigate, like she's got stuff that she likes, yeah, but everyone else is gonna have sometimes their opinions, sometimes they're gonna have like real strong opinions, and sometimes they're gonna say them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and I can picture like a bride who's tried on a dress and you're seeing her light up and glow and like smiling, and then you know, grandma will throw her under the bus uh gently. She's like, eh, don't like it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Like how do you how do we how do we like manage that for them?

SPEAKER_00:

Again, this goes back to Angela's point of we all run our appointments a little bit differently. Um each stylist kind of has their own approach um to running the appointment. But one thing that um we a lot of us will start out with is hey, when um our bride comes out in her dress, I just want you guys to know I would love her to give her opinion first. So that way it kind of sets the tone of like we are all on the same team. We are all here to support our bride. Yeah. Um, and if you have, we have a big group sometimes. Yeah, we have big groups in the store of like six, eight people. Um, and it can be a lot of different opinions in her ear, a lot of because she she's a people pleaser if she wants to bring that many people. Yeah. She's a people pleaser. She wants to make sure grandma sees her in her dress and she loves it. And and mom cries.

SPEAKER_04:

And it might be super important that mom loves it too. Yeah. As much as she wants to pick something that she loves, she could be the the type of bride who's like, I I need the stamp of approval. Absolutely. Even if it's not like people pleasing, it's just like you want her to be like bought in to the city.

SPEAKER_00:

It's your mom. Yeah. You want everybody to be happy. You want everybody to enjoy themselves. So kind of starting out with, hey, I'm gonna let them know that like we're gonna do this, that gives takes the weight off her shoulders and puts it on ours. Because then we're like, all right, we're gonna lead this and we're going to make sure everyone's happy. You just enjoy your time today.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, because it is a little bit of a celebration. Yeah, it is. Like pop the champagne or trying dresses on. Exactly. Well, I'm not, but so we've talked a little bit about like the um the difficulty potentially with who's there and maybe the opinions they have or don't have based on, you know, how gung-ho they feel about sharing those. Do you have advice for like more generally, like who should brides be inviting to that space?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So I think it's really important that if you know beforehand that, you know, someone is not going to be on your side during that appointment, just don't invite them. It won't be fun for you and it won't be fun for us as stylists.

SPEAKER_04:

Um it might cause a little bit of a hurt feeling there, but it seems like from what I've heard you guys talking about this whole time, that that moment could be huge to have the right people there for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I've I've had brides before that they just didn't bring the right people and they found their dress, but that prevented them from saying yes to it. Um, and one of the nice things that we offer is an unveiling appointment. So you can bring those people once you say yes. And it's it's just an elevated pickup appointment, but um they you already have the dress secured and they can come see it once you've already said yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so that's one option. If you're giving advice for like, okay, that's cool. I I know I need to bring the right people. How do I figure out, like you said, on their side, is there anything else besides that that you're like, hey, if you're thinking about the people, this is the framework that I want you to be kind of going through.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, we ask brides when they come in, are you bringing everyone you need to say yes to your dress today? And I think that is really important. If there is someone that is super special to you, make sure that they're there. If you feel like you can't say yes without them, make sure that they're there. But if if their opinion is gonna prevent you from saying yes, then leave them home.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And even on the on the flip side of that, from what you just said, like if there is a person that needs to be there for you to say yes, the worst thing that you could do is find one then and be like, Yeah, well, I hope they like it. If that's if it's that important to the bride.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that um sometimes that can be very difficult to for us people pleasers out there. It can be very difficult to say you can't come to a loved one that's like so excited to be there, but you know is gonna be not on your side. Yeah. So it's worth having those conversations with people. And I know that can be scary as much of wedding planning is, it is kind of all about the family.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So having those conversations with people ahead of time and just telling them how you feel, I think will open them up so much more, and just being honest with them of saying, like, hey, this is my vision. Um, it's what I'm really, really loving, and I need you to be on my side.

SPEAKER_04:

It seems like even you could just if there is a concern about one of the people that could be there, is like, hey, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. Exactly, exactly. This is gonna be a big decision. I value your input, but like, let's keep a lid on bottom line. It's my dress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, and like we've said, that is not all on the bride. Like, that is usually on us. That is on us as stylists to be in charge of your appointment and make sure that you're feeling great and your team is feeling great, um, and everybody is on the same page. And trust me when I say that works. And we we are our proof that that works very well, and everybody ends up leaving happy and celebrating, and it's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I love that. Are you guys seeing like style trends that are kind of popping up that are kind of like recent things that you guys are loving?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Um, I think there's a lot of really good trends right now. Um, but like I said, our brides are all so different. Um, and we do have we do have some that are a little bit trendier and want to kind of reflect what they're seeing. But I feel like there's always this undercurrent of like, I want to be classic and timeless. Um, so we do see some of those trends pop up. Um, but a lot of times it it really is just like what the bride feels the best in and what she connects with. And that may be something that another bride totally hates. But um for that bride, it is so individual and so focused that we don't always focus on the trends. It's just what are our brides gonna love? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Was there a trend that happened in the past that you're like glad is not a thing anymore?

SPEAKER_00:

Everything is still anything. Everything is coming about. Is it yeah? I mean, if if you want, we can get into a whole trend thing. I mean, we we do a lot of Angela research at the store just being chronically online. Um but I mean, we can get into it if you want. Like it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04:

I think what would be helpful, and and maybe I'm speaking for the bride, so let me know if this is true. I think it would be helpful for brides to just get a little bit of a better understanding of what's out there, what's normal, what's different, what's what their options might be. And I know that it would be easier to see options just looking through and coming in and seeing the dresses, but even just as they're kind of sitting there thinking about like, what do I want my dress to be, what do I want to feel like in it? Um to me, I'm like, gosh, there's so many options. Yeah. If they started with uh like, hey, these are kind of like common styles that people are are gravitating towards as like a starting spot, and then you can go flowy or you can go more fitted, or you can go like these different directions.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, I think the heaviest trend right now, and I I don't even like consider it a trend anymore because it's been around for a year or two, um, is that basque waistline, which is a pointed waist instead of just a straight across waist. Um, and there was a whole thing a couple months ago where people were like, oh, that's the mason jar of of current bridal trends. But um all it really does is just kind of like makes your torso look a little longer. Um, but that's one of my current favorites. Um, it's on a lot of our styles. Um, but again, it's just kind of I hate to say like what flatters your figure more because we don't really care about that. Um, But it is sometimes just uh just pretty.

SPEAKER_00:

It's cute. But I mean, I think that it's it's kind of sounds a little bit cheesy, but I think that the current bridal trend is very much what feels like you. Yeah. Like an authentic. Authentic version of you. The most like I say all the time, like, what makes it feel like you times a thousand? Like the most glamorous or the most bohemian or the most whatever version of you that you want to portray on that day, what feels good? And I think that that is like so cheesy. And so like, oh my God, like, oh okay. But honestly, that's the truth.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it's a good framework. Yeah. I mean, if you're going into it with that framework, you're not gonna be like pigeonholing yourself into like I have to have this style of dress or it has to look this way on me, like you're saying. Like, yeah. It can look however it looks, as long as you feel like it's authentic to you.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. And we can say all day, like the trends are like classy, clean, the brocade look is really in with like that textured fabric. Like we're seeing like glitter tool be really popular and phase out and phase in. And I mean, the drop waist is back from like the early 2000s. So it's kind of like, yeah, we can say all day what the trends are, but that doesn't matter. What matters is what makes you feel authentically you. And if that's a pink dress, if that's a rainbow dress, amazing. I love that. Like whatever you want. Yeah, it doesn't have to be white.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and I think too going off of that, we work with a lot of designers that can do full customizations. And I feel like that is almost a trend. Um, because you do get to have that personal signature on your dress. And it's like, oh, I really like this, but I wish the neckline was a little bit different. We can change that for you. And automatically no one has that dress in the world except you. Um, so I feel like we've seen a rise in that and just like a little bit different.

SPEAKER_04:

Um what are some other ways that they could customize?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, there's so many ways. Very glad.

SPEAKER_00:

You guys are like, oh, yeah, that's what we love. Um, it's kind of that's where we can get creative and help a bride design her dress. Like that's what like really makes me excited. Um, I do a lot of the customs in the store and it's just so much fun. But yeah, I mean, like you can do anything, like it's the limit. Sleeves, no sleeves, like neckline change. Um, we've done the fullness of the skirt, yeah, uh shape changes. We do like um if it she wants to change the entire fabric of the dress to be something totally different, like that is so much fun. Yeah. Um, if the bride has vision, we can make it happen.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is like my biggest tip. Um, kind of going off of that is just being able to come in with an open mind. Like, I think it's really good to like say, like, oh, have a good idea of what you want when you come in. But I feel like also saying, like, it's good, it's fine to not know what you want at all.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because I've had so many brides that come in and they're like, oh, here's my Pinterest board, all the dresses fit this like theme, yeah, and that is not what they choose at all. And it's just totally different. And I think being able to be open to the possibility that there is something else out there that you may love, or there is the possibility to create something that you love, yeah, um, is is really helpful.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So when I'm sitting here and I I hear custom dress, I'm like, oh, that sounds expensive.

SPEAKER_05:

No.

SPEAKER_04:

But but unpack that and give me like a little bit of a, you know, obviously all dresses are gonna cost a different amount. And how much you change it is probably gonna cost a different amount. But like, how much different is it to go, let's customize this a little bit versus leaving it the same?

SPEAKER_00:

It depends, obviously, on what you want, because you know, the more customizations you go, obviously the more expensive it gets. Um, but with that said, our dresses don't go over like at the most right now, like 5,000 at the store. Um, we are bringing in a couture designer, Hailey Page, which we're super, super excited about. She is kind of the like forefront of unique and different um right now. So we love her. But yeah, so her dresses are a little bit more on the higher end line, but we do not exceed 5,000 um at the store, and majority of our dresses are in the like the 2,000 and under range. We also have dresses under a thousand.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So it again is dependent on the person, but with customizations, it's usually not that much more expensive. It could be, it could be like another like$1,000 if you do like 10 different customizations. But most of our girls that do customizations, it's usually only like maybe another$200.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I was gonna say some of our um, we work with a private designer that um it's kind of just like directly working with the manufacturer instead of working with a named designer. Um and customizations with them can be anywhere from like an additional$50 to$100 for the bride. And that could just be adding buttons. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I like this dress to like this is exactly what I was looking for. Exactly. Yeah. And you're not if it's a thousand dollar dress, adding another hundred dollars is it's not gonna be like groundbreaking.

SPEAKER_05:

Right.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So I think it's so cool to have the opportunity, right, to like make it even just that little bit better, or even just like a little bit more of what the bride had in mind, even if it wasn't what she thought it was, like when she first got there. But uh, I'm sure there's a bride sitting there thinking she's listening or watching, and she's like, cool, sounds great, but like how long is that gonna take to get back? Because you obviously want it done well, you don't want it rushed, you don't need a button popping off because it wasn't sewn on correctly. Um, but how long does it take to get those changes made?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So if you're doing a custom dress, um, it is going to take more towards that like six-month time period to eardress. And that is kind of like rule of thumb. If you're ordering a dress um made to order or made to measure, it is going to take more towards that six-month timeline. Usually we say to our brides, like your dress is going to take about four to six months to come in. Um, so yeah, I mean, to expect that timeline is good, but you'd also want to have time for alterations. Yeah. So if you're going to be having a made-to-measure dress, that's a little bit different than a made-to-order dress. So a made-to-measure dress means that the dress is made for you, like to your exact measurements. And a lot of times we'll do that when we do a custom dress, just because it makes sense. Because if you're getting like custom sleeves, obviously you want them to fit rather than having them done later. So traditionally, um, if you were to purchase a dress either off of our racks or um order a size from a designer that doesn't necessarily do customizations, um, you would want about three months for alterations after the dress arrives. So that's when you're gonna get in with a seamstress, talk about fit, talk about if you do want to do any kind of alterations to that base dress, um, that's when you would do alterations. Other thing would be if you are doing a custom dress, um, then you're gonna want that, you know, make sure you have that six-month time frame. Um, and then you may not need any alterations when the dress comes in, which I know literally everybody is like, all the seamstressers are like, ah, when I say that. So that is not hundred percent accurate for every person. Um, if usually we're gonna have body changes. We are keyboard, we are women.

SPEAKER_04:

Over the course of a year, yeah, your body could fluctuate up and down, side to side, like all over, yeah. Just from life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04:

The last thing we want is for you to be at your wedding day, like something isn't working right. Right, right. Even if it's just like a feel, like it doesn't feel right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04:

We're not saying like the zipper's not going up or it is going up, but just we just want it to feel good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And that's why you want to start your alterations three months out from the wedding, not necessarily like if you were to buy your dress a year out, like as soon as your dress comes in. Yeah. So like it depends on who you're going with design-wise in our shop. But usually we would, when you say yes to dress, we take your measurements, we figure out what's going to be the best size with the least amount of alterations. Because obviously we want it to be cost effective for you. We don't want you to be getting a dress that's two sizes too big, two sizes too small, and then have to get changes and alterations when it comes in. That's not fun for anyone. So we do try to get it to be the closest size as possible if you're not doing custom measurements. So it's kind of like it depends on who you go with.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's kind of a double-edged sword too, because you want to give yourself plenty of time to find the dress, obviously. But if you do anticipate changes to your body, then buying that dress a year out can seem a little scary.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But um normally just like a seven to nine month time frame, a little bit longer. We prefer you start at a year to just figure out what your style is.

SPEAKER_04:

Even if you went at a year to like, I like this dress, yeah, this cut, these additions, maybe.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You could at least have that locked in at the year mark. And then maybe like that seven to nine, you can actually like go ahead and purchase and everything. Yeah, it seems like that would be a good, a good time frame.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is a big purchase. And um, like you were saying, you can change so much within that time frame that it it's it can cause anxiety, but that's what we're here for. And it's very rare that we've had issues with, you know, somebody changing so drastically that they need something else.

SPEAKER_04:

Aaron Powell So there's obviously a lot that goes into the bride picking the dress. But you guys are cultivating uh an entire shop full of dresses. And I'm sure there, you know, no offense to the brides, there might be more that goes into like what dresses you get into the shop and how many of each style. And walk me through like what that whole process looks like.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um traditionally, uh, we usually only have one of each dress as like style. Um as we are a small business. Uh wedding dresses, I mean, as you guys know, talking to the audience, they can be expensive. So we actually pay for each one of our dresses in our store, which is a little bit different from like how a department store would work, like Macy's or like even Target or something like that. Um when you're talking about uh niche retail like this, um, every single one of our pieces are handpicked by us. Yeah. So we curate all of our dresses, our jewelry, our veils, our mother of the bride dresses. Every single one is picked because we think that our customer is going to love it. Um, whether it be we pick it um based off of a trend or based off of, oh my gosh, I had five brides last week asking me for long sleeves and I don't have any to show her in the specific size range. So, I mean, we stock dresses from size four all the way up to size 30 in the store, um, which is also something I think that sets us apart a little bit. Yes. Um that's something for everybody. Yeah, we try to have something something for everybody because usually sample size um is kind of like in the like size six to ten range, which bridal sizing is whack. Like just know that don't worry about that. Exactly. That does not mean the same thing. So usually it's about like two sizes up from your regular size. Um, and that's not because the designer wants you to feel bad or anything like that. It's just kind of based off of like European sizing. Um, that's where a lot of our designers will get their materials. Um, and sometimes that's where they're manufactured. Um they could be manufactured in China, um, Taiwan, uh, Myanmar, um, India. Yeah. Uh we have some in the Netherlands, like literally all over the globe, Spain, like whatever you want. They source materials from different countries to bring it together to make one dress. So the size is a little crazy. Um, it's kind of like jeans, honestly. We always say that to our brides. We're like, um, when they're like, oh, do you need my size? I'm like, okay, well, like what's your gene size? And they're like, oh, well, you know, I'm kind of different sizes and different designers. It's like exactly yeah, you will be here too. Yes, exactly. So a good rule of thumb is just like it's good to like know that you're gonna be about like maybe one or two sizes up. Um, and that's that's helpful to know, uh especially since we carry such a broad range of sizes at the store.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and that it does get a little difficult um purchasing dresses in that instance too, because some things um that may work really well on a fuller figure body may not work well on a smaller bride. Um, but we do like to have options for everything because, like we said, what makes you feel best is what works.

SPEAKER_04:

Um you want to hopefully have that at least that they could see exactly maybe they don't have the exact same size that they would need, but they could at least see it in the shop.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we we get pretty crazy with the clips. Um we can we can put a size 20 dress on like a size eight girl. Um but yeah, picking picking styles, it's not really an exact science. Sometimes it's oh, this dress does really well, and this is like a sister or cousin dress to that. Um, or like this neckline has been performing really well, but this dress is totally different and it's not something we've ever seen before. Um, and we were actually just in a meeting on Thursday picking more, and it's it's hard to figure out, you know, exactly what holes we need to fill, but it's also very fun. And we get to see a lot of stuff um that the brides don't always get to see. Um, but it's it's really fun picking styles.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I can imagine uh like the creative side of that would be so fun.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

So the bride's narrowed down to a couple dresses. Maybe she's already tried them on and she's like retrying them on, and she's stepping up onto the little platform, right? And she's like looking in the mirror. Um, from your vantage point, as like the bridal stylist, what do you wish that she maybe a framework or like what do you wish that she would be thinking of when she's stepping onto that platform? Like really, really, really getting to that final stages of like finding the perfect dress for her.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that's when we're going to ask the various questions we like to ask of Could you see yourself walking down the aisle in this dress? Does this make you feel like a bride? Does this make you feel like you? Like what we were talking about before. Like, does it feel like you times a thousand? Like is it giving you that feeling? And we kind of come back to that a lot of like, what does it feel like? Rather than like, how do you look? You know? Um, it's like they're going to be asking their entrage, like, okay, what do you think? Do you like it? Okay. Did does it feel like what you're envisioning for me? And I think that what a lot of brides don't realize until they start trying on dresses is like, yeah, this feels like me. Not necessarily what I had this preconceived idea in my head. So that's why we try different things, you know? It's like you never know until you try it on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And I think we do try our hardest to ask those questions when they get up there and kind of put them in that mindset of like, you know, I'm just standing in a store right now, but can I see myself on my wedding day walking down to my fiance?

SPEAKER_04:

Picturing it. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And sometimes we have them, if they're torn between two dresses, we have them close their eyes. And it's like, is there one that you see yourself in more? Yeah. Um, and just like kind of really getting into the nitty-gritty of like, does this feel real for you in this dress? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I love that. So you guys are in like a very specific like category of vendor. Yes. Right. We talked about this a little bit before we started recording. You're like early on in the process, um, in some ways, like kind of removed from the day itself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, what is it like to kind of be in the spot you're in helping with like such a big part, but also like not really doing much with like the wedding day itself?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's it is kind of hard because we do build these relationships with our brides. Um, even in just the hour and a half we have with them. Um, we we become their like biggest cheerleader. And then um sometimes we don't get to see them on their wedding day, and it's really hard. Um, but it is it is really exciting. Um, and we love when like our vendor friends will tag us in their wedding day. Sometimes we do get to see a little bit of that behind the scenes content, which is really fun. But um yeah, we wish we wish we could be there. And they our brides will ask us sometimes. Yeah, our brides ask us sometime. They're like, can we have you there to fluff the train for me while I'm walking down the aisle? But we wish we wish we could.

SPEAKER_00:

But I think that um too we get to see them when they're first starting out, which I think is really special. Um, like when they're first starting to put together their vision. And I think it's really special that we get to be a part of figuring that out. Yeah. Because the dress or whatever the garment is that they're gonna be wearing kind of sets the tone for the rest of the wedding, whether it be um, you know, the overall vibe or um if they're wanting to wear, you know, something crazy, like you know, detailed, or whether it's very clean and simple. I think that that is so special and something that um I think we can be happy and excited about rather than being there on the exact day. Yeah, it's kind of like we get the FOMO of like, oh, I want to see what I want to see what happens. But um, we do get to kind of be with them um the year leading up. Yeah. So like when they buy their dress, sometimes it's a year out. It takes about six months to come in. We see them again um when it comes in. And that's kind of like really exciting.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it is fun because a lot of times when they come for their first appointment, they'll have their venue picked out, they'll have their photographer picked out, but like some of those other details just haven't fallen into place. So when we see them when their dress comes in, it's really fun to be like, all right, where are you planning now? Um, and a lot of our brides do a lot of like special touches on their wedding day too, as as they should. Um, and it's exciting to kind of like tag along with that. Um, I've had brides before that get like custom veils and stuff like that. And it's really cool to see their vision come together. And it's really cool to see it finally come together on their wedding day too, because I remember when you started and you had no clue what you were doing.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's really special to be able to fully style them too. Yeah. Because a lot of the initial try-on appointment and everything is to figure out what they want. Um, and we kind of just like focus on the dress. Whereas when the dress comes in and it's their exact dress, their size, their color that they ordered everything, um, you can really see the vision come to life when it's fitting properly and it's like exactly what they wanted. And then you can we can really style, we can really play with like accessories and just like okay, now we see the vision. Yeah. So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that's what's so fun about getting to do formal wear and mother of the bride too, is that we get to see not just them but their family a couple different times. Um, we get so close with them and being able to work with them on multiple occasions is really fun.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, and again, just building that relationship with them and being able to like celebrate all the women in their lives as well, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's so fun. Speaking of like celebrating the other women that might be super important, special to them. Yeah. Um, can you speak to like different ways that brides can be like kind of giving the nod maybe to grandma or maybe to mom in some way? If there's like a part of the gown maybe that could be included, like if mom's gown could be included somehow, or mom's veil can be included.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

What are some different ways that brides can kind of like get that to work?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, I had a bride the other day that brought an heirloom veil in, which was really special. Um, and we've done it before where they've done like memory patches of um like a past relative um in on the inside of their dress too, which is really nice.

SPEAKER_00:

A really big trend right now is the trend. Um a really big trend right now is to actually um wear your mother's dress, your mother-in-law's dress, um, another woman in your life, maybe even grandma's dress um at either the rehearsal dinner or at um the after party somehow, make it into a little short dress. That is so fun and that's so cute. Um, and we love seeing that because it's kind of a way to wear another dress if you wanted to. Um I mean the second dress is a huge thing right now. Yeah. Um so being able to have a pass down in a way, of like an heirloom piece, I think makes it more emotional and special. Um, and if brides don't necessarily have that, um, we do have a collection of little white dresses at the store too, and that is so much fun. Um because it's so much more relaxed than like all the pressures of like everybody else around you and like picking your wedding dress. Like it is so much more relaxed when we get to have brides come in for little white dresses because it's like, wee, this is so fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

We um we had a bride recently too who her mom got her dress um at our Eastern Avenue location, and she actually altered it to be a short dress. So it was two Stella's dresses still. Oh, that's okay. Um, but two gen two different generations.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So what kind of bride do you think would love or benefit from having that like second dress or sort of like the reception fun kind of thing? Party bride.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think it's a lot of times it's the party bride, the bride that uh, you know, wants the most. Um she's very extra. She's very like, I want to do like five different dresses.

SPEAKER_02:

Like I want to-dance.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So like it can be both in a way. Like it can be your bride that's like, wow, I want the most. I want all the things. But it can also be your bride that's like, get this dress off me.

SPEAKER_04:

The heavy gown. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I mean, it's it's kind of both. Like it can be a bride that's just very chill and it's like, I want to change into something more comfy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, we also see it too when brides have like two different venues. Um, so we've had some brides recently that are like church weddings. Um, and then they'll come to a place like Hazelwood um for their reception and they'll switch dresses there because it is like a totally different scene. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You can have a little bit more of a ballgowny kind of feel, and then a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02:

More relaxed, a little bit more playful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Grace and Angie, it's been so great having you guys here and just talking all things dresses and bridal shop and and styling. Um, in in kind of the like closing out fashion, I'd love for you guys to just give uh those listening an idea, a picture into like the bride who's been at Stella's, tried dresses on, maybe she's found the perfect dress, maybe she hasn't and she's still searching. What do you hope that she's feeling walking out of the door after her appointment?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Um, I mean, what we always we want every bride to leave happy, of course. Um, but it's not all sunshine and butterflies. We get it. It can be stressful, it can be a lot, and it's completely okay to go have lunch. Like literally take a breath. Um, we're not trying to push you, we're never trying to sell you the dress. You know, we are obviously selling something, yeah, but what we're selling more than anything is your happiness and your confidence and you feeling great when you leave. We want to make sure that you know you're celebrating when you leave, you're feeling good. Um, and that is just our our main goal always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Moral of the story, go have lunch. Um no, I think um my my main goal at the end of the appointment, whether she says yes or not, is to make sure she leaves the store feeling empowered and educated. Yes. Um, because you walk into a bridal shop, you nine times out of ten haven't bought a wedding dress before. You don't know what you're doing. I've never done this before. Yeah, that's fine. Um so I I want to teach my brides a little bit about the process. Um, and again, just empower them. I made a great decision today. Even if I didn't make that decision, I learned a lot. I know what I want. Exactly. I'm headed in the right direction.

SPEAKER_04:

So I love that. Yeah. It's such a great mindset to have. Um, and it's so like beyond, you know, the financial like investment of them buying the dress that Stellas. It's almost like it doesn't matter as long as they're leaving with like what you said, yeah. Empowered, feeling like they know more.

SPEAKER_02:

That is like the last piece of our puzzle. We we're not gonna sell you a dress that's over your budget, but whatever your budget is, we don't care. We'll find you a dress regardless.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's kind of we get a little crazy with it. Like after they leave, if we don't have what they want, we're like, okay, let's find it. Yeah, you know, let's find it. Let's figure it out. And then we'll like text them later and be like, hey, I found this dress I think you're really gonna love. Like, let's do it. And yeah. It just we might carry a little too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I mean, it's happened before too, where we may not be open to a designer that has exactly what they're looking for. And we've recommend that they go to one of our other local shops and gone there and found found something there. Yeah. So it's community over competition.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Always, always. I love that. Girls, thank you so much for being on and representing Stellas. It just sounds like such a cool shop. Thank you. Um, no reason to be there, but it would be fun to visit and see the shop. Um, but I appreciate everyone who's tuned into this episode. Um, such a great conversation, and hopefully you've learned some stuff about dresses and bridal wear and all the things. Um, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or somewhere else that you get podcasts, I don't know where else you get podcasts, but um, I would appreciate if you could leave us a review, just let us know how you're liking the show, share it with your friends. If you're watching on YouTube, hey, what's up? How's it going? Appreciate you being here. Um, drop a comment down below. Let us know how you like this episode and um, you know, how you liked our conversation. Ask some questions. Yes, yeah. We'll get in there in the comments and respond. We love that. Absolutely. Um, and make sure you're subscribed. There's gonna be way more coming down the pipeline, if you will. And uh, but that's all for this episode. We'll catch you next time on the preferred list.